The genius idea "Mind Squasher"

[Kyrenis]

Originally Posted by pieceofmeat

Barbs dont have to buff everything at once.

They can do plenty more or less unbuffed, unless maybe if they gimped themselves to only deal damage.

Work with you allies and live with the fact that cant 2 hit kill for 40 sec, its not the same as being out of fight.
They put themselves in that position by over buffing.

An unbuffed barb is damn near useless, the only thing that makes the class useful is its buffs.
Without berserk our damage is pitiful, it doesn't matter what other buffs we don't use to save for when we get MSed.

Originally Posted by pieceofmeat

If you die you die, UM, DI etc is not god mode.
Im opinion ms is not half as deadly as a dizzy from a barb, just more annoying since it fucks with peoples over confidence in their OP buffs.

There should at least be some sort of way to protect yourself against MS.
There is nothing you can do to avoid it, which is pretty stupid IMO.(only archers and knights can counter it if they are stupid enough to cast it through PB/SotW)

Even a drawback to using it would be nice, for example if it fails it removes the last buff you casted on yourself.

[Candyx]

Is MS really that different from kick? Kick 5 from a barb is death. At least with MS you have a chance to survive. Sure you might not kill anyone but you'd live to fight another day.

My point isn't kick is OP (or that barbs are OP) it's that a single OP spell doesn't warrant changes. If every class has an OP spell then the game's still balanced. So why os MS worst than darkness, confuse, kick etc?

[Kimahri_Ronso]

Originally Posted by Candyx

Is MS really that different from kick?

Kick can be dispelled, unlike MS.

Originally Posted by Candyx

So why os MS worst than darkness, confuse, kick etc?

Darkness, confuse, kick "etc" wears off, unlike MS. The worst thing in MS is that you have to wait for the spell that was MS'd to go off of CD and be ready for re-use.

[Candyx]

Again my point wasn't a direct comparison. If you wanted that I could argue darkness is more OP since you cant be healed once it's been cast on you. Or kick is more OP since you can't move without a dispel. You cant objectively weigh up the fact that MS dispels positive effects against darkness stopping new positive effects. Depending on the situation darkness can be alot more of a challenge to a night than MS. A simple example would be dismounting, dismount someone with MS and it has almost no effect on the battle, dismount someone with darkness and they've pretty much got to run untill darkness passes.

[Hollow-Ichigo]

i use ms on people who arent even buffed. why? because it does damage

[Kyrenis]

Originally Posted by Candyx

A simple example would be dismounting, dismount someone with MS and it has almost no effect on the battle, dismount someone with darkness and they've pretty much got to run untill darkness passes.

Most people are smart enough to know not to dismount people with MS.

That's like saying using confuse on someone while they are ambushed is better than casting BoW on them while ambushed. Of course it is better because 1 does something and the other does nothing. Both spells are good, but you are comparing 2 spells at one's prime while the other is severely inferior.
A spell is only useful if used properly.

[Candyx]

Originally Posted by Kyrenis

Most people are smart enough to know not to dismount people with MS.

That's like saying using confuse on someone while they are ambushed is better than casting BoW on them while ambushed. Of course it is better because 1 does something and the other does nothing. Both spells are good, but you are comparing 2 spells at one's prime while the other is severely inferior.
A spell is only useful if used properly.

This is my point. Arguing that one spell is stronger than other based on non numeric factors (loss of buffs v can't be healed) is a pointless exercise. My argument about MS to dismount was intentionally facetious to highlight the problem with arguing that one spell is more overpowered than others. Reductio ad absurdum.

[Kyrenis]

Originally Posted by Candyx

This is my point. Arguing that one spell is stronger than other based on non numeric factors (loss of buffs v can't be healed) is a pointless exercise. My argument about MS to dismount was intentionally facetious to highlight the problem with arguing that one spell is more overpowered than others. Reductio ad absurdum.

But you are the only one bringing up darkness in this thread, they are two very different spells from different classes that happen share some common ground.
Darkness is at least preventable (with DI) while there is nothing you can do to stop an MS.

I fail to understand why people continue to defend MS in its current state.

[Wiedeking]

"Hello, ms is good but i dont wanna use it caus idk. pls nerf or nubs like me wont have fun. "

This is what i read all the time.

[Candyx]

Originally Posted by Kyrenis

But you are the only one bringing up darkness in this thread, they are two very different spells from different classes that happen share some common ground.
Darkness is at least preventable (with DI) while there is nothing you can do to stop an MS.

I fail to understand why people continue to defend MS in its current state.

The purpose of my argument was to highlight that thus far all that's been said against MS is that it's a very effective spell in some situations. So I internationally gave some instances of other spells being more effective in other situations. It's going to be extremely hard to quantify if one spell is better than another if the spells do more than just fixed damage, but this is essentially what your argument is based on. If you can give me one *objective* reason MS is more powerful than *any* other spell then I see the reason for this thread, otherwise all I get from this is that you don't like MS.