GameSamba accounts issues.

[Krungle]

Kharbon, you take the hacked accounts look at the hackday -1 save on those accounts and look at the present items on those accounts. Next you manually put back the items they are missing from hackday -1.

Using saves you can trace items, gold, and trades. You DO NOT need to know where the items went to restore lost items to those who were hacked.

If a mistake is made later and a traded item is a legitimate trade then that can be deleted later but it's been over a month now and these old-time players should get back to playing, should have BEEN back to playing weeks ago.

The problem with hack-trades is they so often go through so many hands, including other hacked accounts and non-active accounts plus accounts that have been deleted (or toons that have been) that you can never, ever trace 100% of the event and get a 100% solution. If that is what they are waiting for, then all those hacked accounts might as well either quit the game or start over, for a 100% solution is not possible.

The other problem they will encounter is somewhere along the line many of these hack-trades will have entered the legitimate trade stream which means every day that passes becomes one more day those investigating this issue are one more day behind. This means, mathematically, you have a parabolic curve: no matter how close one gets to a 100% solution you can never, ever reach that goal for the second your data is current is the second it is a second behind.

Best solution, only possible solution in reality, is to get those that were hacked playing again (by using the hack-day -1 save) and work the rest out over the next months as best as one can eventually calling off the incomplete investigation once a certain amount of time has passed.

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by Krungle

Kharbon, you take the hacked accounts look at the hackday -1 save on those accounts and look at the present items on those accounts. Next you manually put back the items they are missing from hackday -1.

I seriously doubt that the databse works like this. Even if it would, it doesn't solve the problem I mentioned before.

Originally Posted by Krungle

Using saves you can trace items, gold, and trades. You DO NOT need to know where the items went to restore lost items to those who were hacked.

Yes, you do need to know where the items went. Simply duplicating the items would be terribly unfair to the original owners, who worked hard, and paid for the items. Now the people, who obtained them for next to nothing, are just to keep them? There is enough difference between well equipped, and normal geared players, Haven doesn't need the gap to grow even wider.
What about characters that were deleted/renamed/xim missing? They all need to be tracked down and restored. By this point in time it will take some effort & time to distinguish between the hackers interference and regular user ones. Many hacked players already acquired new gear, levelled up. etc. If they loose this progress now, they will just be even more upset.

Originally Posted by Krungle

If a mistake is made later and a traded item is a legitimate trade then that can be deleted later but it's been over a month now and these old-time players should get back to playing, should have BEEN back to playing weeks ago.

Continuous interference would be more frustrating for players, since nobody could be certain if their own gear didn't come from a hacked account. No, this is not the most efficient way. To have all the accounts fully restored (not reverted) is the best approach. Especially a month after the happening.

Originally Posted by Krungle

The problem with hack-trades is they so often go through so many hands, including other hacked accounts and non-active accounts plus accounts that have been deleted (or toons that have been) that you can never, ever trace 100% of the event and get a 100% solution. If that is what they are waiting for, then all those hacked accounts might as well either quit the game or start over, for a 100% solution is not possible.

The developers are trading these items. There is no reason why they couldn't trace them.
100% solution is not entirely possible, that's true, but from absolutely different reasons than you state.

Originally Posted by Krungle

The other problem they will encounter is somewhere along the line many of these hack-trades will have entered the legitimate trade stream which means every day that passes becomes one more day those investigating this issue are one more day behind.

A illegally traded item never acquires legitimate trade status. Yes, the users might be unaware, that the items are effectively stolen, however that doesn't mean they are allowed to keep them. Trades have to be undone.

Originally Posted by Krungle

This means, mathematically, you have a parabolic curve: no matter how close one gets to a 100% solution you can never, ever reach that goal for the second your data is current is the second it is a second behind.

I think, you mean an asymptote there?
Nevermind.

Originally Posted by Krungle

Best solution, only possible solution in reality, is to get those that were hacked playing again (by using the hack-day -1 save) and work the rest out over the next months as best as one can eventually calling off the incomplete investigation once a certain amount of time has passed.

That's by far not the only and not the best solution. As I stated previously, reverting the accounts will cause even more problems, as players DO manipulate their hacked characters AFTER the event. IE. they level up, gain rp, get new gear to be able to fight, perhaps even buy ximerin. if that all was to suddenly disappear, it could cause same uproar as the hacking itself.
The approach NGD took is to trace the hackers manipulation, and to revert not only trades, but premium manipulation, character changes and any other possible interference. I have no official information, but my guess is that they will restore the above, while keeping all the progress that the hacked characters have made after the hacking.
Fixing all the above in one step is the easiest and most efficient way of doing so.

[zeeph]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

Well, that was a lil sarcastic comment on that kind of traders who build their ego on magna and stuff, horde alot of items many could use and generally sell only for more than its worth. I dont mind these gone.

NGD already said theyll restore things that got lost, just have patience.

agree on first part, for all the others wish you get your stuff back !

[Krungle]

Originally Posted by _Kharbon_

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[Lebeau]

Someone above seems to 'think' that 1) those hacked getting all their stuff back + also keeping all they may have acquired since, & 2) tracking down EVERY last item, gold piece, etc. have to be part of the SAME process. So ppl hacked can WAIT however long such a 'fix' might take? BULLSH*T! Hopefully, NGD truly has the good sense NOT to think at all like that. 1) & 2) above are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE & need NOT be combined into just one VERY long & drawn-out single (& single-minded) process in order for folks to EVENTUALLY get their stuff back....someday....maybe....

NONE of those hacked can tell the difference if NGD re-spawns/duplicates our accounts/the stuff stolen. Ah, but we CAN at least PLAY if we get it back. Right, folks? Fix THE problem, sure, Priority-1: the security gaps are plugged. NOW fix OUR problem NEXT! Selfish? Maybe YES! Ah, but THAT is customer service. Doubts? Go ask ANY of those hacked/cheated STILL waiting what THEY want. All that is required is comparison of the last PRE-hack account save with the very 1st POST-hack save & then with the CURRENT save version of the account; adjust/spawn all that's been acquired since the hack onto the pre-hack save. Install. Presto.

After OUR problem is solved & we're ALL playing again, if NGD really wants to track down all that original stuff SOMEHOW over many additional weeks & months of effort, & then confiscate it, or whatever, then that's THEIR choice ofc. & best of luck with that. BUT, for all those hacked to possibly STILL be WAITING while NGD may be going the longest possible way around sorting this issue out for weeks & then months on end perhaps & during that ENTIRE time, to keep ALL those hacked/cheated DANGLING without any REAL need, would be COMPLETE TOTAL BULLSH*T!

Like I said, "Hopefully, NGD truly has the good sense NOT to think at all like that." The hacker has already did enough damage & that WAS their intent imho. NGD need not & should not aid the hacker's intentions & add ANY more waiting, pain &/or suffering to the resolution of this matter than is absolutely necessary. Good luck & keep at it, coders....we NEED that rollback tool.

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by Lebeau

Someone above seems to 'think' that 1) those hacked getting all their stuff back + also keeping all they may have acquired since, & 2) tracking down EVERY last item, gold piece, etc. have to be part of the SAME process. So ppl hacked can WAIT however long such a 'fix' might take? BULLSH*T! Hopefully, NGD truly has the good sense NOT to think at all like that. 1) & 2) above are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE & need NOT be combined into just one VERY long & drawn-out single (& single-minded) process in order for folks to EVENTUALLY get their stuff back....someday....maybe....

Why would 1 & 2 be mutually exclusive? Tracking down the items and moving them back to their original owner is possible. Then, of course, you need to revert the traded items. From all the information that is available, it seems that this is the approach that NGD has chosen. It it not the fastest way, but we know how things end up, if NGD rushes.

Originally Posted by Lebeau

NONE of those hacked can tell the difference if NGD re-spawns/duplicates our accounts/the stuff stolen. Ah, but we CAN at least PLAY if we get it back. Right, folks? Fix THE problem, sure, Priority-1: the security gaps are plugged. NOW fix OUR problem NEXT! Selfish? Maybe YES! Ah, but THAT is customer service. Doubts? Go ask ANY of those hacked/cheated STILL waiting what THEY want. All that is required is comparison of the last PRE-hack account save with the very 1st POST-hack save & then with the CURRENT save version of the account; adjust/spawn all that's been acquired since the hack onto the pre-hack save. Install. Presto.

Perhaps some of the hacked would like to keep the items that they got after the hack. They might have borrowed good items from friends, looted, levelled up.. Not everyone, but someone would. It would not help nor Realm situation (where some realm(s) would just get a boost of great gear), or NGD's revenue through boxes.
The customer service has never been great with this game. I think we all know that.


Since there is only very little communication between the developers and community, it is difficult to see what really will happen. Gamesamba stated that things would get solved, and the matter was not going to get "swept under the carpet". All the community can do is complain and hope.

It is taking a long time, as most of the things in this game. I'm just pointing out, that the methods suggested by community are not always the best, and might lead to further frustration.

[andres81]

I still remember when they erased the Lefan/Darlud rings in some update during autumn 2012. Compared with the current situation here this was much easier because the fault was clearly NGDs and there were no tradings after it.
They promised to restore this rings after making a ticket request and guess what I am still waiting since 8 or 9 months now

[Evangeline]

[Lebeau]

Originally Posted by _Kharbon_

Why would 1 & 2 be mutually exclusive? Tracking down the items and moving them back to their original owner is possible.

Uh, I truly thought I (& common sense) had ALREADY answered this, Kharbon...

So the DOZENS of hacked/cheated could play NOW .... NOT months from now, & thus, they would feel somewhat LESS cheated the sooner they can play again. Ye gods, POSSIBLE-SCHMOSSIBLE, I was talking about the best overall way to approach & solve EACH problem ... for EVERYONE involved. It's "possible" to do corrective hemorrhoid surgery thru the patient's ear canal, but it's REALLY not recommended. 1ST: fix OUR accounts as I outlined in my last post (people GET all their stuff back lost in hack & KEEP all stuff gained since then too); 2ND: track down all the ORIGINAL stuff & do w/e with it that NGD decides is right & fair to the new owners. Simple.

The issues ARE related, but are 2 separate problems with 2 separate solutions. It's NOT rocket science, it's cost-effective COMMON sense ffs. Fixing our accounts by moving thousands upon thousands of items, & gold, etc. one-by-one & respawning the lost xim & wm/champions coins to each affected account after searching & researching each & every lost thing down over months & months is SO anal-retentive & time-consuming & TOTALLY negligent/insensitive to the hacked/cheated customers, it borders on complete mindless insanity. Those cheated GET cheated even MORE? WTF, dude?!

Like I said 3 times now, "Hopefully, NGD truly has the good sense NOT to think at all like that." NGD promised a NEW single account/toon rollback tool, & that they would fix this sh*t, hopefully during the 2nd week of April (hey, better late than never, but the clock is still ticking & the calendar has turned 2 pages so far since the hack). Such a fix is what I fully (& have a right to) expect. NOTHING less will do. They SAID it, now they must DO it. A man is ONLY as good as his word....best of luck & keep at it, coders.

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by Lebeau

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You still didn't explain, why tracking down items and restoring them (while keeping the ingame progress) is impossible. You just explain what you would prefer.
As I repeat, it doesn't seem that NGD decided to do a simple roolback, because that would take place right after the hacking. Instead they ARE tracing back the trades & any damage done, as you can read on Gamesamba forums.
Since nothing was done for several weeks after the event, characters did make progress. Since they didn't have the equipment to war properly, they grinded/borrowed items. A simple roolback, as you suggest, would negate any effort they have made since.
Tracking all the trades could be done after the character restoration (too late for that now, as I explained), but NGD simply didn't choose to solve matters in that way. They seem intent on tracking down the items/trades.