News in AMUN - Testing stage - Page 7

Gabburtjuh · 10-24-2011, 03:23 PM

I'd like a official post of NGD what they think about the strongly forwarded mentality by the players to NOT give off handed weapons bonusses....

Narzoul · 10-24-2011, 04:40 PM

Nel's numbers are quite right, indeed 2H melee weapons have 4/3 times as much base damage as 1H weapons. As far as I know, available bonuses and their maximum values are the same. Which means creating a basic balance (in theory) is quite simple:

Multiply the main-hand weapon's base damage by x, and the off-hand weapon's base damage by y. As long as x+y = 4/3, it should match 2H weapons. Do something similar with bonuses, except that x+y = 1. (e.g. halve the bonuses on both the main-hand and off-hand weapons when dual-wielding). This would even work without having new off-hand weapons added to the game, just using the existing 1H weapons.

I see two "problems" with the above. First, one could argue that getting two good 1H weapons is more difficult than getting a single good 2H weapon, which is a little unfair. Second, dual-wielding in this sense brings only a cosmetic/visual upgrade and greater weapon choice, but apart from that there's pretty much no gameplay difference (other than gaining access to Fast weapons). I'd favor solutions that add some "twist" to dual-wielding other than just new attack animations. Hence, I'll throw in a few more ideas in this vein. Some of these ideas assume that dual-wielding could have higher base damage or higher bonuses compared to 2H weapons.

Decrease the Strength modifier when dual-wielding
Add a "natural" attack speed penalty when dual-wielding
Use separate hit chance rolls and/or separate damage rolls for the main-hand and off-hand attacks (perhaps also for skills based on attack damage?). This is currently problematic due to the fixed damage reduction by armor, perhaps this can be solved by halving armor effectiveness against each hit. (Also halve the fixed strength damage bonus, obviously).
Create differences in some of the skills (especially those in the two-handed mastery discipline) when dual-wielding, e.g. Berserk could give only +30% damage but also +15% attack speed, or keep the +50% damage but decrease attack speed (to compensate for having higher base damage and/or more item bonuses), etc.

I think that's it for now, I may have had more ideas but I forgot them while I typed this up. :P

survive · 10-25-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabburtjuh

I'd like a official post of NGD what they think about the strongly forwarded mentality by the players to NOT give off handed weapons bonusses....

I have to disagree Dutch... simple reason... that is nerfing... the way it goes knights have been asking for bonuses back on shields for years.. ever since they were taken away... and now you want to nerf the barbs because shields dont have bonuses... just give shileds back bonuses.. there are still some bonused shields floating around out there...

as for as making barbs OP... i am not in agreement... doing tests on my barb, i found duel-weilding to be ~same speed... and the damage was no greater amount than my current 2-handed weapon using the same setup as i curently use..., in most cases a little less... i for one will probably stick with my 2-handed weapon and setup, because i see no advantage with going duel-wield ... maybe if i was a fulminating user, for the multiplier damage (guess the same for SC monkeys)... but i still believe that fulminating along with confuse should be wiped out of the game.. (just my opinion, hasnt changed in 5 years.. not going to anytime soon) ...

on another note... Dutch, your "...strongly forwarded mentality by the players..." is repeated posts by 3 predomitely knight players...

mind you .. 3 good players that do play barb as well... but it is not thier main class... if you want a barb, play your barb... if you want knight, play your knight... if you want to nerf barb because your knight doesnt get what you want for it... just stop!!! and yes, i believe you should get your bonuses on your shields... STOP THE NERF TRAIN!!!!

now i had to plat box weapons to try this.. and mind you on Amun, they were incredible epic main-hand, and off-hand weapons... and they did less damage than my 2-hand weapon... better weapons, lower to same damage... it is fine how it is.. might use some tweaking... but settle down...

as for weapons, ... where are they? lvl 37 off-hand hammer... tops? sure there are swords.. not everyone uses swords... where are mag off-hands? WM off-hands? there are lvl 60 barb swords, and lvl 60 barb off-hand swords... where is the rest of the selection? can a elite knight weapon be used for main hand? knight mag weapons? can knights use an off-hand weapon in place of thier shield? ... questions i would like to see answered....

my 2-cents on the subject.... until some changes... i will still be happily swinging my 2-handed hammer around

PT_DaAr_PT · 10-26-2011, 12:26 PM

The release of the patch is today so I doubt that this is gonna be fixed in time(or ever fixed).

Certain Elite knight weapons can't be equiped for dual wielding because their requirement is actually set to Knight instead of Warrior.

Examples are the Elite Knight Mace and Elite Knight Hammer that can only be equiped by Knights, therefore Barbarians can't use these weapons for dual wielding.

Latan · 10-26-2011, 01:42 PM

we're saying that from the beginning of the warmaster expansion because we couldn't fuse some weapons due to their requirements.

Gabburtjuh · 10-26-2011, 03:14 PM

Acctually, barb is my main atm rumple, since over a month, but anyways, barbs dual wielding 2 epics can easily have 50-60 damage more as someone with a 2handed weapon, which with barb's damage multipliers easily comes down to 100-150 damage, more with fulminating, not to mention possible attack speed stacking, and it's not even implented yet, so it wouldn't be a nerf either ...

Psynocide · 10-27-2011, 05:51 AM

"What was the reason behind removing shield drops with bonuses? (English Forum)

A Balance reason. Knights would have an extra slot to increase their main
stats if we didn't remove them."

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...36#post1262236

Same reasoning should be applied to the off-hand weapons.

Kitsuni · 10-27-2011, 06:15 AM

The whole implementation of duel wielding just screams selling boxes. I wouldn't be suprised if they added shield bonuses back just to sell more boxes. The NGD that made balance changes with premium items seems to've lost interest in that; that much is evident with the armor enhancement gems, dire need for horses in the current state of the game, and someone also mentioned premium elixers can be used even if you got hit recently without having to wait on them?

I really wish things would be done in more simple, effective ways, such as the solutions proposed by other users in this thread, but I already know this is going live.

Eh, I think it's about time for another six month break...

ayexeyen_ · 10-27-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

I still have been unable to drop magical or epic off hand weapons so unless somebody has seen any, I am going to go out on a limb and say there are none.Best of luck NGD.

I am sorry to disappoint you. No joking.

Take a look at the image please.

VeterKh · 10-27-2011, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayexeyen_

I am sorry to disappoint you. No joking.

Take a look at the image please.

it was probably 100 the bought lucky box?

10-24-2011, 03:23 PM	#61
Gabburtjuh Baron Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere where grinding does NOT exist Posts: 822	I'd like a official post of NGD what they think about the strongly forwarded mentality by the players to NOT give off handed weapons bonusses.... __________________ EX - Dutch Wannabe OP/Tank / Wannado Bash marks/knight/barb 60 Chuck Norris hunter 52 One Bite Snack, 60 barb / Wang King, 60 knight

10-24-2011, 04:40 PM	#62
Narzoul Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 88	Nel's numbers are quite right, indeed 2H melee weapons have 4/3 times as much base damage as 1H weapons. As far as I know, available bonuses and their maximum values are the same. Which means creating a basic balance (in theory) is quite simple: Multiply the main-hand weapon's base damage by x, and the off-hand weapon's base damage by y. As long as x+y = 4/3, it should match 2H weapons. Do something similar with bonuses, except that x+y = 1. (e.g. halve the bonuses on both the main-hand and off-hand weapons when dual-wielding). This would even work without having new off-hand weapons added to the game, just using the existing 1H weapons. I see two "problems" with the above. First, one could argue that getting two good 1H weapons is more difficult than getting a single good 2H weapon, which is a little unfair. Second, dual-wielding in this sense brings only a cosmetic/visual upgrade and greater weapon choice, but apart from that there's pretty much no gameplay difference (other than gaining access to Fast weapons). I'd favor solutions that add some "twist" to dual-wielding other than just new attack animations. Hence, I'll throw in a few more ideas in this vein. Some of these ideas assume that dual-wielding could have higher base damage or higher bonuses compared to 2H weapons. Decrease the Strength modifier when dual-wielding Add a "natural" attack speed penalty when dual-wielding Use separate hit chance rolls and/or separate damage rolls for the main-hand and off-hand attacks (perhaps also for skills based on attack damage?). This is currently problematic due to the fixed damage reduction by armor, perhaps this can be solved by halving armor effectiveness against each hit. (Also halve the fixed strength damage bonus, obviously). Create differences in some of the skills (especially those in the two-handed mastery discipline) when dual-wielding, e.g. Berserk could give only +30% damage but also +15% attack speed, or keep the +50% damage but decrease attack speed (to compensate for having higher base damage and/or more item bonuses), etc. I think that's it for now, I may have had more ideas but I forgot them while I typed this up. :P

10-26-2011, 12:26 PM	#64
PT_DaAr_PT Baron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Portugal Posts: 940	The release of the patch is today so I doubt that this is gonna be fixed in time(or ever fixed). Certain Elite knight weapons can't be equiped for dual wielding because their requirement is actually set to Knight instead of Warrior. Examples are the Elite Knight Mace and Elite Knight Hammer that can only be equiped by Knights, therefore Barbarians can't use these weapons for dual wielding. __________________ Daar

10-26-2011, 03:14 PM	#66
Gabburtjuh Baron Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere where grinding does NOT exist Posts: 822	Acctually, barb is my main atm rumple, since over a month, but anyways, barbs dual wielding 2 epics can easily have 50-60 damage more as someone with a 2handed weapon, which with barb's damage multipliers easily comes down to 100-150 damage, more with fulminating, not to mention possible attack speed stacking, and it's not even implented yet, so it wouldn't be a nerf either ... __________________ EX - Dutch Wannabe OP/Tank / Wannado Bash marks/knight/barb 60 Chuck Norris hunter 52 One Bite Snack, 60 barb / Wang King, 60 knight

10-26-2011, 01:42 PM	#65
Latan Master Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: L'Aquila - Italy Posts: 268	we're saying that from the beginning of the warmaster expansion because we couldn't fuse some weapons due to their requirements.

10-27-2011, 05:51 AM	#67
Psynocide Master Join Date: May 2007 Location: Here & There Posts: 439	"What was the reason behind removing shield drops with bonuses? (English Forum) A Balance reason. Knights would have an extra slot to increase their main stats if we didn't remove them." http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...36#post1262236 Same reasoning should be applied to the off-hand weapons.

10-27-2011, 06:15 AM	#68
Kitsuni Baron Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 886	The whole implementation of duel wielding just screams selling boxes. I wouldn't be suprised if they added shield bonuses back just to sell more boxes. The NGD that made balance changes with premium items seems to've lost interest in that; that much is evident with the armor enhancement gems, dire need for horses in the current state of the game, and someone also mentioned premium elixers can be used even if you got hit recently without having to wait on them? I really wish things would be done in more simple, effective ways, such as the solutions proposed by other users in this thread, but I already know this is going live. Eh, I think it's about time for another six month break...