balance Update 2011 Stage 1 - Summary

[Torcida]

Originally Posted by Seher

But while long CCs are frustrating in RvR, it's more or less the same when there are short or medium (I consider 4 seconds as medium, by the way) CCs in PvPs. Long CCs are frustrating there, too, as there are many situations then in which there's nothing you can do to improve your situation. Examples? Any knock down while a barb is near. Or BoW 5 on a warlock, have fun watching your death while you can't do anything.

YES nerfing all CCs creates a more dynamic gameplay. It's not very dynamic to wait 11 seconds for a dizzy to wear off. Or to wait 35 seconds for confuse to wear off, lol. It's not even dynamic to kill e.g. a warlock with BoW 5, what's so dynamic about hitting someone who can't fight back?!

CC's in pvp aren't frustrating since they are easy to counter, Also I am a warlock and I pvp 95% of the time and you don't hear me complaining about confuse or BoW since we have plenty of trees in the warzone...

[asterisk]

My 2 cents are about BoW change.

I think removing damage from this spell would just cause more op marks under DI, i mean in every type of fight (open, fort) the only thing can stop a marks casting dmg spells ,and maintaining range ofc, is another marks with BoW. I think marks/conju hunt couple would be a big hit after that not that its not deadly as it is now. Fixed and lower range i think is better solution for all classes both in RvR and PvP.

[Seher]

Originally Posted by Torcida

CC's in pvp aren't frustrating since they are easy to counter, Also I am a warlock and I pvp 95% of the time and you don't hear me complaining about confuse or BoW since we have plenty of trees in the warzone...

Excessive treehugging, yeah... That's one of the few dynamics you could actually lose with shorter CCs. I'm not sure if I'd miss it.

Originally Posted by 53453467734534

This will work if both armies are equally strong. That is mostly not the case in Regnum. If mistakes are not (or only on a large scale) the deciding factor, raw numbers (the larger army) will rule the battlefield. I have explained it already.

And that's where you're wrong, kind of. :P What decides the outcome of battles when you've got long CCs? Just what I've mentioned, stuff like casting xxx 0.5 seconds too late, etc. That's mostly luck. Everything that's not luck based in this system won't disappear with short CCs.

There's not much difference after all: Long CCs mean you'll have to play better than your enemy when you're outnumbered, and it's the same with short CCs. The only difference is that one long CC is enough to turn the battle, while you'd need e.g. 4 short ones. But what's the reason for your well planted CC? Is it luck, or skill? When it's skill you've got the same chance to hit 4 as to hit 1, meaning you've got the same chances being the underdog with both long and short CCs. Just when it's luck you'll hit far more often one CC than those 4 short ones, and you won't win as often as you did with long CCs. But luck is there on both sides, it allows the underdogs to fight on par, but it also allows the stronger side to be even stronger.

It's just about luck. Long CCs mean more luck, short ones mean less. Luck isn't that bad at all, some unpredictability of the outcome is always nice, but CCs aren't the only way to get this luck into RvR, in fact any area does just the same, and there are many less frustrating ones, without 10 seconds knock down.

But that:

Originally Posted by 53453467734534

I admit that a successful (area-)CC effect may determine the outcome of a battle (strong tide/ momentum), but at the beginning long CCs (including areas) will create many possible outcomes, because mistakes matter, while
short CCs (including areas) will not create strong momentums, so larger armies willl eventually win.

is just wrong. Short CCs can create just the same momentum, it just needs to be pulled off based on skill, not on luck.

Originally Posted by 53453467734534

That is one of the dangers of radical changes

That's the risk of any change, no reason not to change anything. Even if such a problem went live, you could still make a hotfix :P (Like one to remove those damn saves... Meh.)

Originally Posted by 53453467734534

Another one is that it is possible to alienate customers.

That's more of a problem, still... Way more customers get scared off by crappy balance, at least long-term wise.

But 6 seconds casting time for doors? Wtf? That's definitely too much. :P

[The_Krome_Dragon]

I agreee that CC needs lower duration, but 2/4 secs is way too low for the knock to be usefull/worthwhile. 3-4-5-6 secs would be alot better bec they wouldnt be death sentences anymore but they would still be tactically usefull. As for the vry long duration spells(darkness,confuse,slow) mabey make their max duration 25 secs. For spells that have 15 sec max lower the max duration to 12 secs. for spells like BoW max= 8-9 secs. As for PvP and RvR they r both important to RO so lets treat them equally here. No need to ignore one. "Tree/Rock hugging" is an important tactic imo and involves the envirement into the game so just bec u get beat by it doesnt mean u should try getting rid of it:P . Anyway im interested to c how NGD handles this next update. Good Luck and may the coming complaint be funny

[Vroek]

Ita one thing to use tree to cover you path of attack, escape or just for direct damage.
Run lap after lap around rock or tree, just dont qualify as feature, its just show how little attention that been put to combat details in RO.

[Seher]

I said excessive treehugging. I don't care about 5 seconds behind a tree, not even 10, but

Originally Posted by The_Krome_Dragon

As for the vry long duration spells(darkness,confuse,slow) mabey make their max duration 25 secs.

25 seconds confuse means 25 seconds treehugging, and that's too much.

Originally Posted by The_Krome_Dragon

I agreee that CC needs lower duration, but 2/4 secs is way too low for the knock to be usefull/worthwhile.

Why? You stop your enemy from moving for 2 seconds, that's e.g. 2 seconds ivy, and you stop your enemy from attacking, that's e.g. 2 seconds beetle swarm, and you stop your enemy from dispelling, buffing, etc., 2 seconds dizzy. Additionally you remove all blocking etc for those two seconds. You still deal 100% weapon damage and hence don't lose DPS when casting this. 4 different effects (5 when counting damage), and a spell applying all of them one after another would be quite overpowered. I know, they aren't so strong when applied at the same time because dizzy and cannot attack more or less cause the same to different classes, but even without it: 6 seconds, two of which disable movement, 2 any kind of attack and spell and the last two reducing resistance, blocking and evading to zero. Not weak at all.
And that's a 2 seconds one, not talking about 4.

Originally Posted by The_Krome_Dragon

3-4-5-6 secs would be alot better bec they wouldnt be death sentences anymore

6 seconds knock down IS a death sentence when a barbarian is near. Not for fully buffed marksmen, not for knights, but still for most of the classes it most of the time is.

Originally Posted by The_Krome_Dragon

BoW max= 8-9 secs

Dizzy needs to be revamped completely, imo. It's a cannot attack for mages, just worse as they can't dispel it! How would a barbarian feel with 9 seconds beetle swarm? (Oh and talking about what dizzy means to some classes - know what confuse does to conjurers? What about 35 seconds beetle swarm? Nice, eh?)

[HidraA]

A second solution at all of this time reduction of CC can be dmg nerf or armor enhange.

But cold down adjustment is a must to avoid circle of CC from one person.Also number of CC/class.

To explain:
-Lowering dmg will keep alive more a guy even he is on CC effect.

Effects of this two solutions:
-Lowering time of CC will make combat more fast.
-Lowering dmg will make combat more slow.

In a RvR situation CC time reduction has a better effect because SUM of dmg that you recive/time can be lower because not many enemys have time to rich you when you are far and you are down for low time.
In a RvR situation with dmg nerf dmg can be lower(depend of adjustment)...but for sure if time of CC is highter more enemys have time to spot and hit you.

[NSer]

I agree on CC duration shortened IF GCD get removed also. Cause what reason to skill lvl3 knock that will last 4-5 sec and i won't be able do the shit 1st 2-3 of those!?Also i agree on more active combat (i loved fights with Jin at Arena they were epic example of this) and agree that shorten СС will benefit players under it some more.
On long duration debuffs that had to be called СС due to their ability exclude some1 from fight(darkness,confuse): erm.... really dunno but short confuse? with short cast time only ah and should be real CC:aki shouldn't work on horsed/knocked targets.

[HuntShot]

You guys know that we're F***ing this whole thread up right?
Chilko asked for a summary not for another discussion ..

[Vroek]

Originally Posted by NSer

I agree on CC duration shortened IF GCD get removed also. Cause what reason to skill lvl3 knock that will last 4-5 sec and i won't be able do the shit 1st 2-3 of those

You dont have to remove it, simply change it from normal GCD to very short or short GCD.

GCD really didnt make things worse, to begin with it was only an improvement for mages since all their spells only had 1 sec GCD, but since the balance update GCD was increased on some spells, but not so much that it was significantly worse than before GCD system.
Old system, mages had 1.7-1.8 sec invocation using a fast staff, which would be something in between a short and normal GCD.