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Old 08-13-2009, 02:31 AM   #11
Arafails
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I think the biggest problems I have playing my barb at the moment can be summed up in five words.

Movement speed, strafing, and position.

On the topic of mana.
I have to say, the the mana demand for warriors while grinding is far too high. It is by far what I spent the most timing sitting around waiting for. We barbarians do have the option of just hitting things until they die (it would be nice if TfB would reset the damage accumulation after 5 hits instead of just stopping altogether, mind you), but knights do very little damage if they don't use offensive casts. If you're knowledgably going in as a conjurer to support a grinding warrior, you need to bear in mind that what they mostly need is a mana battery. Certain good conjies (To name a few from Ignis/Horus – Orimae Fionn, Viperdh, Nightshroud, AKM, Oracle, the list goes on...) know this, and you don't even have to ask for mana, the supply just keeps coming. Others don't go in prepared, don't realise what's needed of them, and may or may not get yelled at depending on the temperament of the warrior at the time (I try my best not to yell at conjurers unless they do something stupid like kill the mob too much before I can hit it).
Basically, we need your mana when grinding more than we need your buffs or heals. In fact, grinding with spears above level 37 or so, a barbarian specifically may as well grind with no support conj at all rather than one that doesn't keep their mana topped up (a tip for barbs: get a spear, ripost, backpedal, normal hit, mob is dead. Select a new mob, rinse, and repeat. It may not work as quickly as it used to thanks to the increase in cooldown on ripost).
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmagusArcana View Post
From what i see, its marks that always demand mana as they burn through it so fast. I do see barbs do it too, but from what ive seen, far more marks do than barb...but thats just in horus/alsius, ive never played another realm, and dont get on ra enough to speak to that.
yes, it is true us marks (at least those I know in Horus, never been on Ra) eat up mana a whole lot faster than most i think

I have this barb that's lvl 30 and I rarely use him: I'm too scared to send him into wz because he'd be mincemeat in minutes and I really rather not use my time to grind something that I may never use until the postion bug or all those other warrior problems are fixed
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windrium View Post
But what do warriors do? They constantly yell mana! mana! mana! Well, I'm here to keep you alive and buff you so that I can get XP too, and particularly with the recent nerf to Energy Borrow, Ambitious Sacrifice just doesn't give me enough mana to also feed it to others.

But, again, what do they do when they don't get mana? Oh, they whine, cry, and frankly get quite irate. Well, here's the deal, you run around and kill things, I'll give you mana when I have some to spare, but don't expect it, and if you don't get it, stop acting like babies.

But that's the funny thing, maybe it is the psychology of the class, the people who have warriors (not all, but some, and some are nice, but quite a few...), but you know? Just isn't worth it, so often.

Funny thing is, I'm not the only character with a higher-ish level conj that I know of that doesn't like supporting warriors. Actually, I know some that focus on the warju aspect, not because that is how they want to play their conj, but because they got sick of supporting ungrateful people that run at the enemy so fast that they leave them there to die (grinding or wz), so they just need to defend themselves.
Usually I feel particularly obligated to help out my knights, not only do they put the most work into leveling, but they also take more fire for their allies than anyone else, and are generally the ones that wind up running at the hunters who uncamo behind us conjus with confuse and ambush (at least the ones I play with).

I don't necessarily feel more obligated to barbs than any other class, but I do feel for them on the mana. Their buffs can be rather expensive, and they don't have as much mana as conjurers, so I help when I can. Usually the ones shouting "Mana!" aren't trying to be rude, but just efficient. Typing "Mana!" is a lot faster than typing "Van, may I please have some mana? I need it so that I can cast madness before I jump out and cast deafening roar. I need approximately 200 more, or I won't be able to keep the enemy from breaking the door down, so could you please give me some, if you happen to have any extra to spare, please?"

As for the ones that ARE rude, which I've also seen, I just tell them. Ignis Horus used to have a lvl 50 barbarian that would complain about how long he had to wait for a rez, or complain that the bless weapon I give him is only lvl 3. I swear, I was about ready to strangle him I just told him exactly what I thought, and tea-bagged him when he died, and didn't resurrect him, and made him look like a fool in realm chat repeatedly, and then laughed at him when he whined on the forum for a month or two before finally just quitting As far as I have seen though, those warriors are the exception, not the rule.
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:23 AM   #14
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I completely agree with the OP. I started with my marks upto 46 and now lvling up a barb and it is woefully slow. When I was a marks, not one mob touched me for most part of the grind sessions, but now on barb, I have to sit my ass like 100 times a day even having double the hp of marks at the same lvl. Many times whereever possible I grind near a spawn altar and just die instead of sitting all day, not to mention the slooooow hp regeneration on barb, let the necro come. Most special hits are getting useless due to the increased resists/evades that has been (supposedly) implemented by NGD.

I'm all for a radical change to the current barb setup and you have my vote.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperdh View Post
[On topic]
I think NGD want melee to be forced to fight each other in battle, to protect the ranged, as it should be.

How about Melee class have a spell that protects them from 50% CC effects delt from range? OMG this will be soo overpowered, not really it will FORCE melee to engage each other, as the lock / hunters will not be able to stop the advance of melee class easily.
Touché. Warrior defenses used to rely on armor points. Good armor vs pierce (and fire) and caution(4) or (5) was a good start. However now, caution is nerfed and Archers deals hell more of dammage thanks to items. Right now a warrior can't really do his job, only use is at door and it's boring gameplay really.
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:42 PM   #16
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I am beyond frustrated, now i just laugh and take a drink... NGD messed up the barb class. This game is now for ranged class's. I can know longer get near a door with out half my HP being gone (if any at all). Barbs are now fodder for projectiles, kinda like pin cushions... and we die, and die, and die, and die... Who the hell wants to die by the arrow, I am a barb, I want a mace to the face!!!

Maybe after the next update they (NGD) will give some semblance to the barb class (passive speed) and maybe a better evade chance from projectiles.

my two cents...

-Jippy
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:32 PM   #17
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I did 39 -> 40 in one 5 hours yesterday on my Marks, I dont remember exactly how long that took on my barb but it was certainly a lot longer than that.

Mob powers, mob evasion, positions, all these things effect warriors more than any other class. This is the reason that the warrior population is so much smaller than the ranged class's.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umaril View Post
I did 39 -> 40 in one 5 hours yesterday on my Marks, I dont remember exactly how long that took on my barb but it was certainly a lot longer than that.
I remember doing 40-41 in one day on my knight, but it was close to 11 hours, even with conj support for a lot of the time :\
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VandaMan
Typing "Mana!" is a lot faster than typing "Van, may I please have some mana? I need it so that I can cast madness before I jump out and cast deafening roar. I need approximately 200 more, or I won't be able to keep the enemy from breaking the door down, so could you please give me some, if you happen to have any extra to spare, please?"
I want macros now just so that I can have one that says that.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:33 PM   #20
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please no more nerfs.

znurre proposed something which would make warrior battles more interesting and I think this is the way to go, making warriors fight in the middle while archers and mages try to supress each other.
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