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Old 08-13-2009, 04:40 PM   #21
Klutu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umaril View Post
I did 39 -> 40 in one 5 hours yesterday on my Marks, I dont remember exactly how long that took on my barb but it was certainly a lot longer than that.

Mob powers, mob evasion, positions, all these things effect warriors more than any other class. This is the reason that the warrior population is so much smaller than the ranged class's.
If i remember correctly we grinded those lvls :P

id say about 2-3 days of grinding
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:11 PM   #22
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as conjurers and conjurer problems are mentioned, i'll chime in too.
i am kinda whine-ish, so there is no need to remind it, but i hope i'll bring up some points to consider.

1) back when i played in ignis, i used to support some barbs in barb-conj configuration. i was high enough level to have all necessary mana spells, but still managed just barely to give enough mana. now i have manacom nerfed to be nearly unusable in 1+1 configuration. energy borrow on mobs is almost not worth the time cast takes. it is simply not enough mana to pull it off with barb who has high mana demanding setup. but it is not impossible with groupgrinds as more people make actually smaller mana demands. when i grind nonconju char, i generally avoid grinding with barbs mostly, as casting 1400 sc on 1500hp mob doesn't leave much for group to hit, leading to frustration on other classes. probably that's the reason, why some barbs just can't form grindparties.

2) telling that you need mana or hp, is good. thinking that it should be addressed immediatly is not. don't repeat that you need mana 10 times. there is usally 10 more people in need of heals and mana.

3) conjurers mana pool is bigger than warriors or archers, and we have sacrifice, but it isn't endless, as some might think. most of our auras - gh, mc, mp has manacost of about 600. we probably want another 300-350 mana for sanctuary and another 300 so we can heal some allies. and even if we can synergy some away in war, that means
a) we may lack mana for something important
b) we may lack mana to synergy to others.

i can suggest everyone to try playing magic the gathering sometime. one learns the importance of mana managment fast enough

Last edited by w_larsen; 08-13-2009 at 05:12 PM. Reason: some typos
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:51 PM   #23
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+1 to pretty much every barb-poster in here.

I don't really need to type much of anything because it's already been said. But I'll sum up mine about why barbs are really lacking in the "fun department":

1. Too slow to reach most ranged-targets in tact
2. Absolute worst defenses vs. any kind of ranged attack (especially magic)
3. Evades are a joke
4. Resists vs. Archers and Mages are a joke
5. Barbs have no REAL uber-spell to keep them running. UM is better than nothing, but with its large mana cost and long cooldown (and even when it is up), it's not wholly as effective as Army of One, which works every time and has a finite bonus, at level 5 of 80%, instead of +% to a random chance which can (and does) easily fail. Maybe since knights have access to Defensive Stance (which is sort of a weaker version of UM), give barbs a UM with a weaker version of AoO? Say, keep UM's current CC resist bonus stats and mana usage, but at level 5 give the barb another 20% damage resistance. Stacked with Frenzy, that, I think, would bring UM, and barbs out of the doldrums. With a 3 minute cooldown and high mana cost it's still not frequent enough to make barbs "gods" but would definitely open the door for them to be a little more effective (and fun) at their jobs.
6. Crap Armor
7. Positioning still not right
8. Log blanks and omissions (due to packet loss) affect ALL classes and should be mentioned here simply out of recourse.
9. High mana-cost spells with lowest-overall available mana-pool means constant mana-miser builds which detract from barb's overall effectiveness and versatility in battle.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrottimus View Post
+1 to pretty much every barb-poster in here.

1. Too slow to reach most ranged-targets in tact
but before it was annoying to see barbs run away with onslaught spring and um -_-, it's a 50/50 which is kinda annoying, I don't really know which one I prefer I basically think that a lot of "running away" should be nerfed though and the speed returned
Quote:
2. Absolute worst defenses vs. any kind of ranged attack (especially magic)
warlocks?
Quote:
3. Evades are a joke
4. Resists vs. Archers and Mages are a joke
resists suck for every class
Quote:
5. Barbs have no REAL uber-spell to keep them running. UM is better than nothing, but with its large mana cost and long cooldown (and even when it is up), it's not wholly as effective as Army of One, which works every time and has a finite bonus, at level 5 of 80%, instead of +% to a random chance which can (and does) easily fail. Maybe since knights have access to Defensive Stance (which is sort of a weaker version of UM), give barbs a UM with a weaker version of AoO? Say, keep UM's current CC resist bonus stats and mana usage, but at level 5 give the barb another 20% damage resistance. Stacked with Frenzy, that, I think, would bring UM, and barbs out of the doldrums. With a 3 minute cooldown and high mana cost it's still not frequent enough to make barbs "gods" but would definitely open the door for them to be a little more effective (and fun) at their jobs.
barbs are high hitters, marksmen and barbs shouldn't have such a great defense at all.
Quote:
6. Crap Armor
barbs have the secondbest armor in the game
Quote:
7. Positioning still not right
8. Log blanks and omissions (due to packet loss) affect ALL classes and should be mentioned here simply out of recourse.
9. High mana-cost spells with lowest-overall available mana-pool means constant mana-miser builds which detract from barb's overall effectiveness and versatility in battle.
I can agree to most of this, I'm having a pretty fun time on my barb when there's a rush, it's just the time inbetween which is a wrong with most of the game, there's no real dynamics in battle as most of it has been nerfed down to sultars terror, at least warlocks are more vulnerable from range now.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:17 PM   #25
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This is what drives me nuts.

Tiger and I were camping pp2 and Enio rides across the bridge on a horse.

Tiger knocks him off and then he evades on teh gorund. He pops up and starts strafing around. I am standing infront of him, next to him. I am standing inside him. I stand with my back to him. All the time the screen is reading "out of range" "Not facing your enemy." I never touched him.

Meanwile Tiger is standing yards away from him wiht a mace smacking away. He is no where near Enio on my screen. Even if I get close enough positioning bugs drive me crazy.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

As for the rest. It is nothing a little better armor couldn't fix.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:17 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelwinged_Devil View Post
but before it was annoying to see barbs run away with onslaught spring and um -_-, it's a 50/50 which is kinda annoying, I don't really know which one I prefer I basically think that a lot of "running away" should be nerfed though and the speed returned
Warriors have no ranged attacks (well, not including 8m with spiritual blow with barb) and cannot attack while running like archers can. Every class should have SOME method by which to escape... sanc for conjs, low pro for archers, energy barrier for locks to buy extra time, etc. Knights can use Precise Blocking + protector or any combination therein including AoO. Barbs basically can burn UM but it's high mana plus long cooldown means it's not always an option. With Ons nerf and high-mana cost most don't use it as a viable option. Barbs are left in the cold in this respect.

warlocks?
Energy Barrier, fairly short cooldown means a skillful lock can re-cast and keep it up to open a larger window of survival/operation.

resists suck for every class
True

barbs are high hitters, marksmen and barbs shouldn't have such a great defense at all.
Barbs can't hit for anything if they don't have much of a chance in reaching a target. Marksmen at least have range (best in game, as a matter of fact), not to mention skills like Low-Pro and SotW. Barbs do not have the speed they once did and never really did have much in the way of defense.

barbs have the second best armor in the game
Well technically yeah, but it's basically tied with archers (who have range!). Knights have best armor due to the extra item, the shield, but Hunters/Marksmen can access level 50 armor with 200AP per item, just like barbs, and with the same number of items as barb (5; BP, leggings, gaunts, paulds and helm) and often with similar type of damage ratios (v.bad <--> v.good) per item. So in reality:

Best Armor
1. Knights
2. Tie between Barbs, Marks and Hunters
3. Mages


I can agree to most of this, I'm having a pretty fun time on my barb when there's a rush, it's just the time inbetween which is a wrong with most of the game, there's no real dynamics in battle as most of it has been nerfed down to sultars terror, at least warlocks are more vulnerable from range now.
Warlocks have range themselves and can fight back in range whereas barbs cannot.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Warriors have no ranged attacks (well, not including 8m with spiritual blow with barb) and cannot attack while running like archers can. Every class should have SOME method by which to escape... sanc for conjs, low pro for archers, energy barrier for locks to buy extra time, etc. Knights can use Precise Blocking + protector or any combination therein including AoO. Barbs basically can burn UM but it's high mana plus long cooldown means it's not always an option. With Ons nerf and high-mana cost most don't use it as a viable option. Barbs are left in the cold in this respect.
I don't think you have any ideas about locks, locks will have no speed and that barrier is away in no time

Quote:
Energy Barrier, fairly short cooldown means a skillful lock can re-cast and keep it up to open a larger window of survival/operation.
again energy barrier won't last that long, and you know it yourself, warlocks have the worst defense in this game and it's easy to remove plus mage armor is like paper

and armor is like this

knights
barbs
archers
mages

there are some aspects in which you are right, I think most classes are getting reduced on the fun factor it's not just barbs it's all classes in the game with constant nerfs, the nerfs to mana com on a conjurer hit everyone because it means there will be less spells and more normal attacks in fort fights. But don't let barbs into being seen as underpowered, they are not. The problem is with barbs at range they are nothing but close up you're just dead meat to a barbarian who knows what he's doing.

don't get me wrong, I don't think some of the nerfs are ok, in fact I HATE nerfs, it seems to be going only down and it makes wars even more frustrating, the next thing to be nerfed will probably be sultars terror, and then I suspect rvr as we know it won't be far from gone as it will be more zerg oriented than ever
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:15 AM   #28
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Well if you time it right...(I try to always prebuff Barrier and refresh it between 1/2 and 1/4 time left) you can get 2k out of level 5 Barrier, but 60 second CD is a bit of a bitch when you get swarmed.

Ill say it again, Acrobatic, gives archers a higher damage reduction than barbs can get even with Caution(5). Of course im talking self buffs here, so no DB, MW, etc etc etc. Frenzy does nothing VS a lot of ranged damage (more to hunters than to marks i suppose, who tend to burn mana fast on their non-physical damage dealing spells). Acrobatic as well as the shared evade tree without a doubt puts barbs at just above mages in terms of defensive abilities. Lets not discount range either.
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Old 08-14-2009, 04:05 AM   #29
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Let me explain, in two words, why all warriors, knights and barbs, actually have worse armour than archers at this point in time:

Range. Strafing.

The only advantage that warriors have over archers in terms of un-buffed damage resitance is their constitution. Oh and guess what? Archers can have as a high a constituion (or at the very least as high a number of hit points) as barbarians, so I guess that only counts for knights.

Although I should point out that Barbs DO have a watered-down army of one spell in the form of frenzy. It would be nice if it protected against elemental damage too.

Archmagus: Barrier doesn't stack. When you cast it again it simply extends the duration (and refreshes it to the maximum if it's been damaged)
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Old 08-14-2009, 04:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arafails View Post
Let me explain, in two words, why all warriors, knights and barbs, actually have worse armour than archers at this point in time:

Range. Strafing.

The only advantage that warriors have over archers in terms of un-buffed damage resitance is their constitution. Oh and guess what? Archers can have as a high a constituion (or at the very least as high a number of hit points) as barbarians, so I guess that only counts for knights.

Although I should point out that Barbs DO have a watered-down army of one spell in the form of frenzy. It would be nice if it protected against elemental damage too.

Archmagus: Barrier doesn't stack. When you cast it again it simply extends the duration (and refreshes it to the maximum if it's been damaged)
Yes i know that. What im saying is that if you are smart about it you can prebuff and have it off of cd and ready to use again in battle. I dont know how to explain it any more than that. I had a real hard time trying to explain the exact same thing to someone in clan. Everyone kept thinking that i meant you can get it to reach 2k resist by itself. I guess proper time management of spells is what im driving at.

SO.....Prebuff before you reach a fort; kill some people, take some damage and its free to use again if you need it.

As far as frenzy goes, it really isnt worth much at all. Acrobatic > Frenzy (30% resist elemental and physical vs 20% physical). I find that my points are far better being spent elsewhere.
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