Hello, Haven is dying.

[sunishere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMAYvpya9L4
Hi, i'm a Haven player and i think that, fused Ra and Piranha was an stup** idea :/ now they're a new server with a lot of players, Ra has lot of lag everytime, Haven doesn't has enough players. Now, we can not kill Evendim, Ignis can not kill daen rha, Alsius always kill thorkul, because thorkul have low protection.... We need more peopple in Haven.... please NGD, work it :(

Thanks for read.

:drums: :drums:

[soul7430]

Im from syrtis side. well i play alot time on Ro.. and now it got bored. its true on goats killing thorky. i seen max 4-5 ppl LVL 60 and maybe 2 of them is wm, and even if we go for eve they just log on low lvl toons 45-50. i agree NGD stup** idea to fuse two server to one. they dont care us. when they read this they say " we care haven we do our best". what did they did best for haven? give a huge laggy? or resist more??? make fuse other server to haven. Btw those who win on TDM or CTF, is boss jewelry ppl, and what is fun to go play TDM when they hit huge dmg on u.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

[url] Now, we can not kill Evendim, Ignis can not kill daen rha,

Lol, no gear for boss whores, terrible. C'mon NGD, some people kill bossmobs for a living! $200 per item!

[soul7430]

neverever gone give a single panny to boss item, if this game not gone be better .:dumbofme::dumbofme:

[ieti]

Drama, drama... This game was supposed to be played for fun long ago.

Horus(it was way better name) is not worse than before and it is pretty active in EU times.

Not to mention goats have their little NPC kill fest every morning...

[Hopeakettu]

Drama, drama... This game was supposed to be played for fun long ago.

Horus(it was way better name) is not worse than before and it is pretty active in EU times.

Not to mention goats have their little NPC kill fest every morning...

Oh dear...are they slaughtering NPCs again? :what: Glad I always miss it.

There are only 2 NPC's worth killing during invasion - noble for wmc and the bloody blacksmiths (wish friendly fire was possible so I could silence our own one).

H(orus)aven was remarkably quiet yesterday night. After a desperate attempt at Shaan, there was nothing to do but chit-chat or read papers (I chose the latter since chats were scarce as well).

Oh, and I shall not forget the remnants of holas in commerce and realm chat (they probably lost way because of the merge). Too bad I couldn't join in to have a chat with them at least. :drums:

Btw, I'm disappointed by the merge. Ra + Piranha = Ra? Why not Raranha, PiranRa, or even PiranhaRa? :p

[LucianDeathshield]

Good, perhaps if haven dies we can be merged with a server that doesn't suck total dick

[Shwish]

Im from syrtis side. well i play alot time on Ro.. and now it got bored. its true on goats killing thorky. i seen max 4-5 ppl LVL 60 and maybe 2 of them is wm, and even if we go for eve they just log on low lvl toons 45-50.

You do realize that there is no incentive at all for a level 60 player to go to a warzone boss because they are unable to drop from an unchallenging mob. Another one of NGD's brilliant well thought out ideas. Not sure if this is still the case because the last time I helped kill a boss was when I was in Raven.

[Awrath]

You do realize that there is no incentive at all for a level 60 player to go to a warzone boss because they are unable to drop from an unchallenging mob. Another one of NGD's brilliant well through out ideas. Not sure if this is still the case because the last time I helped kill a boss was when I was in Raven.

This is one of many reasons why this Haven is dying. I don't know the situation on Ra, however Haven used to be a lot more fun. The fun in this game has pretty much faded away. I don't even know myself why I still play.

No bug fixes, no balance. So much for those promises made at the start of the year.

[El_Shaarawy]

http://i.imgur.com/y6ZFuBy.jpg

[Zina Pallas]

Haven is dying.

Although I have been playing for more than 2 yrs, I can just hardly recall a single week when someone didn't mention "haven/horus is dying/underpop/etc".

And it is still alive :rolleyes:

[soul7430]

You do realize that there is no incentive at all for a level 60 player to go to a warzone boss because they are unable to drop from an unchallenging mob. Another one of NGD's brilliant well through out ideas. Not sure if this is still the case because the last time I helped kill a boss was when I was in Raven.

im not that dumb.. i have 2 low lvl toon, atlest higher then lvl 50.:bangin::bangin:

[errei]

it is just not growing (as we all wish) =p (and the reasons are many)

[soul7430]

yesterday at fort fight only 3 syrtis was fight at fort, and ofc they lose relic:jacky_chun::jacky_chun:

[Carn]

Although I have been playing for more than 2 yrs, I can just hardly recall a single week when someone didn't mention "haven/horus is dying/underpop/etc".

And it is still alive :rolleyes:

It's dying, very very slowly :O

[soul7430]

its already dead :(:dumbofme::dumbofme::dumbofme:

[bigserb]

maybe better times coming

[Krungle]

Yesterday I, Krungle, got my 20's on both Syrtis and Ignis at fort fights. My estimate was there were well over two dozen Gelfs when we were fighting them. Of course the Power of the Beard came into play and we killed the Zerglings but there was a fair number there. It is all about the time of day/night one logs on and even then population fluctuates. All games see a population decrease the month after school starts up in the fall and Regnum also has to deal with Multirealmers who log onto one realm or another in force. Admittedly multirealming probably is not as big a thing as most people make it out to be but it does effect gameplay to an extent.

Anyway, Haven might be smaller in population than Ra but some of us like it that way. I do not see the population as 'broke' or 'dead', just small, friendly and one big family.

:closed1:

[Cranddor]

Now it's official: this Krungle guy is an idiot.

[Az.]

Now it's official: this Krungle guy is an idiot.

No Way! xD

[Awrath]

Now it's official: this Krungle guy is an idiot.

This was official a long time ago, on the 6th of March in fact, the day he joined.

[ieti]

Oh god why... :facepalm3:

[Adrian]

I don't agree with a lot of things this user (Krungle) has to say, but please STOP calling people "idiot" because they have a different opinion.

Reply with arguments, leave them "talking alone" or just ignore them.

I'm seeing this a lot, and it's a shame that there a lot of users have only hatred to offer. Most of the users say that the community is the reason they like the game. Well, we can ruin the game -as popular opinion says- but you are ruining the community with this attitude.

I don't say that you have to agree with people like him, I humbly say that someone that insults other people can't be taken seriously. There's a saying that goes "for whatever you do, there will always be someone that hates it and someone who loves it", so, even if we screw it up, for some it will float their boats. This is for everything in life. So, if you want things to be better, start with yourselves too :)

[GreekFireborn]

I don't agree with a lot of things this user (Krungle) has to say, but please STOP calling people "idiot" because they have a different opinion.

Reply with arguments, leave them "talking alone" or just ignore them.

I'm seeing this a lot, and it's a shame that there a lot of users have only hatred to offer. Most of the users say that the community is the reason they like the game. Well, we can ruin the game -as popular opinion says- but you are ruining the community with this attitude.

I don't say that you have to agree with people like him, I humbly say that someone that insults other people can't be taken seriously. There's a saying that goes "for whatever you do, there will always be someone that hates it and someone who loves it", so, even if we screw it up, for some it will float their boats. This is for everything in life. So, if you want things to be better, start with yourselves too :)

KRUNGLE=ADRIAN SPREAD THE WORD :lighten:
on a serious note i tend to hate people and call them names when their iq is negative,thats me :punk:

[bois]

This one is veering off topic.

What I will say is this. Haven, despite numerous intervention is no way where it should be in terms of population.
Many, many mistakes were made. The biggest one being that Haven (Horus) never was and will never be the same character as RA.

For economical costs, I understand whey there must be a one size fits all approach. But, Nemon, Tyr, Piranha, Raven suggests otherwise.

Raven may not be dying but it certainly is only treading water at this stage. Growth and activity is nowhere it should be for such a mature server.

Krungle.
Unfortunately the Internet and this forum has its own morality and correction system. Despite my repeated cautions and advice on how to go here, Krungle walked a path that aggravated many users. I admire his courage for riding it out and as his understanding of the game improves his posts improve. Sadly, his initial posture will leave him sustaining collateral damage over time.

Oh and by the way (because I won't let it go easily for the sheer weakness of the act. ) maybe instead of giving me -15 karma points for speaking truth (ego aside) maybe NGD should reply with arguments, leave me "talking alone" or just ignore me.

This punitive approach seem to be happening a lot and it is a shame. Well, we can ruin the game -as popular opinion says- but actions can ruin the community. Look a this forum , it is on life support. Maybe NGD prefers it this way. No negative reviews is good news.

I don't say that you have to agree with people like me, I humbly say that someone that punitively punishes other people because of their own internal weakness can't be taken seriously. There's a saying that goes "Karma ( not the character) is a bitch and she pays back with interest", This is for everything in life. So, if you want things to be better, start with yourselves too :)

And for goodness sake, man up and sign the negative karma. Hiding anonymously is just weak.

This message brought to you by Bois the raging egomaniac , and the letter M.

[Adrian]

...

Wow, too much resentment there. Read again your reply, please. We'd like an active English forum. We don't care if it's all about our mistakes, but we do care if it's all about "I'd do it better", "I warned you" or "you're an idiot because I think different".

Haven can't raise the population because of a lot of reasons and we're here to discuss them and those three attitudes I mentioned are ruining that process. Forums are not for determining who's right, but to create options by looking into problems.

[Masterkick]

Having played both Ra and Haven, and knowing there's a big difference in terms of player base, I've been thinking on trying a different approach for Haven.

As of now, Ra is crowded, like really crowded. This has a positive and a negative connotation for the users. People who like going to war and capturing forts, participating in the invasions, are of course delighted of how much of this the server is now offering. The thing is, there are also guys who like hunting all by themselves or with a friend or two. Well, that is almost no longer possible on Ra due to the dense population.

The different approach I mentioned earlier, would be to see Haven not only as the "english speaking" server, but also as a potential second home for Ra players who would like to hunt alone or with one or two companions, or just to take a rest from the endless war.

So how do we put it into action? Maybe a system allowing players from Ra to copy characters to Haven... managed in-game. This would mean, it could cost gold (a considerable sum) to copy a character (you would still be able to play it on Ra) AND ximerin as a short-cut. The copied character on Haven would be just like the character on Ra, but unequipped. Maybe to increase revenue even further the character could be copied with just a 50% of its power and discipline points, which would then be gained by doing some quests on Haven involving the WZ. These quests should not be THAT difficult and would be given by the character-copying NPC.

At first a burst of Ra players would copy their characters to Haven, making it more fun yet not near as crowded as Ra. So it would be more of a hunting server in the beginning... then as action would get better some old players would come back and player retention would improve; it could slowly turn into another Ra, meaning a full-fledged server.

That's my suggestion, though I know it would be really hard to implement.

Regards! ;)

[Krungle]

The different approach I mentioned earlier, would be to see Haven not only as the "english speaking" server, but also as a potential second home for Ra players who would like to hunt alone or with one or two companions, or just to take a rest from the endless war.
This is an important thing to keep in mind, the common language of a server. Language is used to communicate plans of action, strats, etc. There is already a running complaint with Alsius of the Alsius Split where half the team goes one way and the other half another. Not only would two (or more) languages compound this problem but it would extend it into other realms, realms that are struggling mightily at the moment. I am not against other languages, just that each server needs a base language and stick to it, whatever that language may be.

Maybe a system allowing players from Ra to copy characters to Haven.The copied character on Haven would be just like the character on Ra, but unequipped.
Or perhaps with a 'transfer packet' of gear? This is an idea that some may like. All I say to it is it doesn't take that long to get a toon to 40 and I got one toon from 52 to WarMaster in less than a week. But this is a revenue stream so it may be something the Devs might like.

it could slowly turn into another Ra, meaning a full-fledged server.
Really, I like Haven because it is what it is. Some people prefer Ra because it is what it is. Neither camps are wrong, just different, which is fine and as it should be. Population, as I see it, on Haven is fine during Prime Times but the off-hours are a bit slow. I have no clue how to market to time slots, especially off-hour time slots. It is this that I see as the major break down on the population issue.

As far as the Realm War issue is concerned, I think the problems of imbalance there has more to do with team work than anything else. I won't go into detail here much on the subject because I like being on the team with the advantage, as I am sure most would be. But I have seen several times Alsius being vastly outnumbered and still win. I believe the majority of players believe that win = numbers, but this is not the case. If Ignis and Syrtis would spend more time on developing strats rather than complaining about a realm to realm population disparity which does not exist, maybe they could stop relying so much on numbers and alliances and make the game more fun for all of us. I think that alone will bring more of the older players back and retain the newer ones.

In conclusion, we do not need to have a population of Ra to be a 'full-fledged server' but instead all the realms need to learn to work smarter with the numbers we do have to bring about wins. This is why I prefer Haven over Ra and most people who return from Ra agree with me (and there are quite a few). This is not to say that some increase in population is not a good thing, it is, but just to say it is not everything and not as much of an issue as I have seen it portrayed to be.

[ieti]

Dude just stop with "goats are better not because of numbers" already. Just stop... We all know how wrong it is...

I played Syrtis at it's most zergy times and i know how you can think about other realms. It is the same - cmoon stop whining, come and fight, do not give up, we are bored with you, here take this negative wish you allying sc*m...

The only times when skill matter is when numbers are equal. Period! Even then there are other factors like gear, class team composition and so on.

You want me to believe that a fort camped with 15-20 goats 2/3 of which are warriors and others are marks and conjus/locks is a matter of tactics and skill to recap? Bullsh*t!

Only you can do in such case is get enough allies and recap it with pure force. No tactics, no skill nothing...

Anyway...i like wars at EU active times, because difference between realms is not so big. But if we look at time zones which are "abused" from realms to invade i can not say good words. No matter syrtis, alsius or ignis - invading empty realms is noobish.

-- Flame on --

Aside from all this even that goats are dominnat now some players still keep the old "underpop" attitude. They fight only when they can win. If tides turn they give up. I have not seen PP fights for ages - cmon syrtis are bad now give them some love. Main forts fights are rare - well you have numbers and teamwork show them in more challenging environment.

-- Flame off --

[kmdk]

We'd like an active English forum. We don't care if it's all about our mistakes, but we do care if it's all about
"I'd do it better",
"I warned you"





Haven can't raise the population because of a lot of reasons and we're here to discuss them and those three attitudes I mentioned are ruining that process. Forums are not for determining who's right, but to create options by looking into problems.


I know i'm always very harsh in critics ,but you know critics are usual from active players that actually spend lots of time in game.

Even critics means feedback.
Not always good feedback is constructive.Because 40 players can tell you nice feature but others 60 leave the product alone.
In that case i think need to analyze your bad feedbacks.The solution over years did by NGD just ban players that send bad feedbacks,without even analyze them naming "uncostructive threads"
I know you take as reference RA as "success " business.Here i can argue about that you are doing wrong.In my country are over 20 MMO that are complete success here but complete fail in internationally servers,is the same as NGD ,RA success in spanish but lets say not going forward on international.And even i think CoR is a hight quality game.

The only internationally market that NGD succeeded it was Linux native client.It was a big plus for it.The model why a player leaves in first 10 lvl-s the game i don't think is related to that new players don't rush directly to war zone to understand about game.

In my personal opinion is about:

1.)lack of enough infos in first stages (not even a tutorial complete about move,spell bars,etc)

2.)boringness of first levels,nothing to interact with ,just go there and kill 5 mobs ,go there and kill other 10 mobs ...kill mobs kill mobs kill mobs ,after killing 100 mobs in first 5-6 lvls ,CoR doesn't offer in first stages a diversity of activities to "keep player excited to find out whats next".

3.)For old players i think there is a list over years of what they don't like ,i don't need remember them .

I think first stages need other interactive ways ,i have no idea what but maybe there are tons of suggestions and there will be.Or maybe revamp complete of first 30 lvl-s of quests system,build other one.

I don't even think NGD shall threat any negative feedback as offense over NGD.NGD critic heavy the players the give negative feedback and complete ignoring them(because of same EGO that players have).
The problem that i see in this "constructive discussion" is that wee play mouse and cat.Wee say "that is bad" ngd say " do it in constructive way" ,wee suggest and ngd ignoring.

I hate goats post #250

To be honest you complaint to much about goats attitude ,yes there are some that say X and y think ,but not generalize thinks.There will be always people that says : "goats are sucks,greens are sucks ,reds are sucks..greens are hackers ,reds are hackers,goats are hackers... etc ...

The only times when skill matter is when numbers are equal.

What game you play ? O.o gears = skills :D And this is other reason that "some" players left game ,gears count too much and not skills.
Luck/cash in atm gameplay = Pro Player .

[errei]

...

i think you didnt pay attention to ietei post ...:¬¬:

[GrimNightfall]

I have seen several times Alsius being vastly outnumbered and still win.
Every realm has at least one team that can do this, I don't see why it's worth mentioning.

I believe the majority of players believe that win = numbers, but this is not the case.
It is always the case unless the zerg team is completely braindead.


If Ignis and Syrtis would spend more time on developing strats rather than complaining about a realm to realm population disparity which does not exist, maybe they could stop relying so much on numbers and alliances and make the game more fun for all of us.
Sure krungle, I'll develop a strategy that counters 25 warriors that spam MS :dumbofme:

I like being on the team with the advantage, as I am sure most would be.
It's people like this that ruin the game for everyone.

Replies in green.

[Krungle]

What game you play ? O.o gears = skills :D And this is other reason that "some" players left game ,gears count too much and not skills.
Luck/cash in atm gameplay = Pro Player .

I have played many, many games of this genre and I know this game is less gear dependent than nearly any other I have played in the past. None of my toons have legendary gear and most even have normal (white) gear pieces. All my toons are effective in RvR and although I refuse to name them here anytime I play one steadily for a week it is always in the top twenty RPs for that class and most often the lowest level in that high of a ranking. I have had as many as three toons in the top 20 class ranking at once for the week.

To quote someone: don't piss on me and tell me it is raining. I KNOW about gear dependency, about Pay to Win, about skill vs. everything else. This is one of the most balanced games I have ever played. If you disagree, go play some other games for awhile so you have something to compare it to. This is not to say that some small twinking cannot be done, but this game is not gear-dependent or numbers dependent so let's get off the subject and get to the subject of how to increase the population base, which is the original topic anyway.

So back to the original topic: I think events, especially holiday events, are a huge draw to people. I have seen dying games, starting with EQ1, whose population increased dramatically during the holidays *because of* events. When the holiday events are new and not just repeats of last year's events these numbers are even greater. Items that can be seen are huge draws. With games with housing the numbers and types of these items are increased but in CoR it leaves only costumes and masks...or maybe dances/emotes. Sprinkling in buff items (potions/candy) also helps.

Games that do not have holiday events tend to have a decrease in population during the holidays as players migrate back to other games to get their presents. Some of these players may takes weeks or months to return to a game they put on hold, if ever.

Recycled events tend towards tedium for those who have been in the game for awhile, especially if the events have the rewards recycled, as well. Players will be more happy with the same event with a slightly different reward, for instance one game had a table-top housing item that looked different every year even if the item type was really the same. People became proud of displaying their collection as it grew every year. Masks and costumes can have a similar success in this game. As I have mentioned before, Bunny Ears are popular and maybe next year doing bunny suits instead would revive this excitement. Same event, new reward.

The Devs have a choice to either join the market in celebrating the holidays or losing players to those other games that do.

[Awrath]

I got so many RPeez from farming. RP this. RP that.
RP has no correlation to the level of skill involved nor to how effective a class is in a game.

The only thing RP shows is realm imbalance (i.e. population imbalances allowing farming), class imbalance (barbs get most of the RP in RvR battles), and how much time you spend playing (more time = more RP, if that wasn't obvious enough). So, enough with comparing your RP rank to how "effective" you think you have been.

If you ever play a conju, you will know that the RP distribution is anything but representative of effectiveness.

You cannot forever compare this game to other games. We are raising issues of balance that exist in THIS game. The fact that other games are more imbalanced does not justify imbalance in this game.

[Aries202]

Haven fails because the community sucks ass. Ra vs Horus, Horus was a piece of shit that should of been closed from the start. Haven is a mix of Ra in it's early days and Horus' terrible community.

You split the English community when you opened Horus. All I see is Haven(very little of it) posting here, and let's be honest we're all assholes that post here. I don't remember the last time the Ra English posted here on a regular. I'm not saying this has to be a field full of roses, but it is what it is.

Adrian you state you want us to discuss stuff about the game and the server and why it's falling, but you guys(who ever moderates this shit) deletes anything that stings you a little.

Let's be honest, you don't want to hear us and we don't want to hear you. IMO we all just want to see shit get done. What ever advice NGD seeks from their community has been written on this dreadful forum for years past. Go back to 2009 and just start reading the suggestion threads and you'll be happy.

Stop asking us what you want to see, cause quite frankly, I speak for myself and I'm sure others might agree... but I'm tired of sounding like a broken record repeating the same shit over and over and over... That's called something, it's called fucking insanity.

[_Kharbon_]

Let's be honest, you don't want to hear us and we don't want to hear you. IMO we all just want to see shit get done. What ever advice NGD seeks from their community has been written on this dreadful forum for years past. Go back to 2009 and just start reading the suggestion threads and you'll be happy.

Stop asking us what you want to see, cause quite frankly, I speak for myself and I'm sure others might agree... but I'm tired of sounding like a broken record repeating the same shit over and over and over... That's called something, it's called fucking insanity.

There's more truth in this, than I'd like to admit. Simply put, communication between customer and developer isn't working here. Fault is on BOTH sides, not just one.

Lot of the negative attitude comes from the forum community, and in return, NGD doesn't take us seriously. In their eyes we will complain regardless of their action. There is always part of players, who will disagree.
I can only imagine, how difficult it is for the developers to communicate with the players, but it's also extremely frustrating for us to be largely ignored.
Fault is on both sides. But I do believe that it's the developers, who should try to initiate steps towards improving the mood. The userbase is a "chaotic mass" of people, who have different opinions, are not tied to the game, and often dislike each other based on their online/ingame behavior.

[kmdk]

Lot of the negative attitude comes from the forum community, and in return, NGD doesn't take us seriously.


This phrase is the key.Maybe "some" of this negative feedbacks had or have a foundation,results are from 2009 until now old Horus had more players after two server merges than Haven.Not to say 2 servers close as Tyr and Raven.

Lol because of negative feedback to not take us seriously ? O.o
Usual a feedback is given by practice ,NGD come with theory ,wee come with experiences of gameplay .And i can say many posts were nice that feature ,nice other one but sucks other one.LMAO recently even bugs reporters on forum were banned ^_^.
Sooo let's communicate how ?,when and why ? :D Active forum ?..O.o Who cares noone wants to say something about ,because of ignoring /noone cares/say someting is wrong you get banned .... so players try the game,see and move to other games ... they become just indifferent to game health.

After all NGD dosen't need to communicate with us,they just need to "note" what people like and dislike.

[Krungle]

but I'm tired of sounding like a broken record repeating the same shit over and over and over..

To NGD, we like this game and we care about it or else we would not take the time to come here and post about bugs and make suggestions about (how we, as individuals) how to make it even better. We don't do it to hurt your feelings but do it because we love you for giving us this game.

To the posters, Once NGD got the server (hardware) up and running, I waited several days as I tested it out in different situations and times (local and regional loads) before I posted a thank you. Thing is, no one else posted a thank you before me after NGD went to a large expense for the new hardware. Also, I know from in game many were thankful for the new hardware but nearly no one added their thanks to mine. The Devs need atta-boys even more than "sounding like a broken record repeating the same shit over and over and over.." to do their jobs well. You all want to be the boss (and to my mind the customer is the boss) but then forget how much it means when your own boss pats you on the back and says 'job well done.'

How many thanked them for the new server? Thanked them for positioning the dragons right? Thanked them for restoring your accounts after the hacking? Thanked them for banning the hacker a few weeks ago so quickly, the one with the mass mob spawn at Ignis gates? Yes, I admit I have been as guilty as everyone else here but at least I try to look for the positive and thank them for it. My father always said that you attract more flies with honey than vinegar. It might be the reason I can point to any of a number of games, games that most of you have played at one time or another, and say 'that was my idea.'

[time-to-die]

How many thanked them for the new server? Thanked them for positioning the dragons right? Thanked them for restoring your accounts after the hacking? Thanked them for banning the hacker a few weeks ago so quickly, the one with the mass mob spawn at Ignis gates? Yes, I admit I have been as guilty as everyone else here but at least I try to look for the positive and thank them for it. My father always said that you attract more flies with honey than vinegar. It might be the reason I can point to any of a number of games, games that most of you have played at one time or another, and say 'that was my idea.'

oh please! XD:jacky_chun:

[kmdk]

To NGD, we like this game and we care about it or else we would not take the time to come here and post about bugs and make suggestions about (how we, as individuals) how to make it even better. We don't do it to hurt your feelings but do it because we love you for giving us this game.

To the posters, Once NGD got the server (hardware) up and running, I waited several days as I tested it out in different situations and times (local and regional loads) before I posted a thank you. Thing is, no one else posted a thank you before me after NGD went to a large expense for the new hardware. Also, I know from in game many were thankful for the new hardware but nearly no one added their thanks to mine. The Devs need atta-boys even more than "sounding like a broken record repeating the same shit over and over and over.." to do their jobs well. You all want to be the boss (and to my mind the customer is the boss) but then forget how much it means when your own boss pats you on the back and says 'job well done.'

How many thanked them for the new server? Thanked them for positioning the dragons right? Thanked them for restoring your accounts after the hacking? Thanked them for banning the hacker a few weeks ago so quickly, the one with the mass mob spawn at Ignis gates? Yes, I admit I have been as guilty as everyone else here but at least I try to look for the positive and thank them for it. My father always said that you attract more flies with honey than vinegar. It might be the reason I can point to any of a number of games, games that most of you have played at one time or another, and say 'that was my idea.'

You are not a bad guy ,but you lose sense of reality or you have not yet build one . xD

[badassmaster]

Trololol. I see things haven't changed much ;-)

[bois]

MM I am back from a little holiday. I see Krungle has taken full flight. Interesting stuff.
No need to address most of it.

I'll drill in on the communication. Sure the community has its part to play in the decline but then, where is the guidance or leadership from the moderation team or even the development team? The community is rudderless right now and for quite some time. We can't be blamed if we have no positive construct from which to operate within. Even the moderators seem to be set adrift in the raging seas of knee jerk and ad hoc moderation. Where is any salient and useful information ? All moderators do is moderate (in the shadows), issue the most vague of information ( to the point of uselessness) and useless blurbs expressing their opinions which may or may not be the official position of the company. How can a community be sustained on such weak rations?

Prime example: we got a decent sized update in beta on Amun but, where is even a preliminary log? None to be seen.

Why did the community get so bitter and corrosive? It was not always this way. It got this way because of an absentee dev team that basically divorced itself from the community yet pretends to be present. It got this way due to starvation for real information ( not the vague stuff we get). It got this way because people were talking into a vacuum. It got this way because people were sanctioned in sometimes irrational and illogical ways.
That builds frustration. That frustration will burst out in some way.

The die was cast.

The genesis of all of this is the lack of a sensible communication construct by NGD. If I must be sanctioned for telling that truth so it must be. You can kill the messenger but the truth remains.

As for thanking people, I am not going to thank anyone for something they should be doing as a normal course of business and rudimentary. Something that is to their own benefit as well.
I will acknowledge good moves. But I won't become a prop.

[AariEv]

...

Well said; an excellent explanation of the communities current state for any new player on these forums making ignorant comments and assumptions when they themselves don't understand what being a long term player in a game developed by NGD is like.

Anyway, it seems the developers have adopted a bitter attitude as well.... and a bit of an ego. I doubt they'll ever change. Adrian commenting is okay, but since deciding the direction of the game isn't really his department, his words have little effect to someone like me. Show me a post by Chilko and you'll have my attention....even if I can't play anymore. Some decent release notes and roadmaps would be good as well, but hey, we've been asking for those for how long now?

Anyway, just passing through.

[Krungle]

bois, the other side of the same coin.
I cannot disagree that it takes both sides of the coin to make changes towards a more positive direction. I covered one side, you the other. If 'blame' is what people want, then there is more than enough to go around.

[bois]

Indeed there is blame to go around. But what ? Everyone back up in a corner with their virtual backs to the wall ?This is where we are at on the English forums right now.

Or should we all try to learn something from this? Not only learn but formulate some lasting construct so that this rot is arrested.

I don't actually expect this because my 4+ years on this forum tells me a different story.

the forum has readers ( quite a lot) but few posters. Why? because of a realistic fear of irrational sanction. So "real" interaction is choked off and real frustration continues to fester underneath.
But this is what NGD wants. Ego propping posters and less "realistic" ones. They can say it is not so but sadly, it is. (Don't forget you guys gave me + 25 karma a while back for commenting positively on some random feature. Precedents are set. )

I'll use my sanction as an example. I got -15 karma for simply stating that my idea ( squid island (level cap island)) seemingly would make it to the live servers and that my lobbying for 2 YEARS + on that content seems to be bearing fruit. I was sanctioned for my ego. Tell me, who really has the problem? What harm could I possibly cause by writing that ?

The situation in the forums should have given rise to some sort of understanding, rethinking from both sides and some some learning process to make this whole thing better and more friendly. I would go so far as to say a moratorium to move forward .
But, the facilitators and host must be the ones to lead the process. That is NGD. The community is not the facilitator, they are the guests. The onus can't be on guests.

But yet NGD continually abdicate this role yet expect some magical improvement mainly using a " ruler to the knuckles" approach. It is not going to work. All will result is a stunted community.

Now. On to process. Tell me Devs, what process can be facilitated in the absence of any real information? In such nebulous conditions as is the norm now, all that can exist is rumours, innuendo and half truths. The environment is ripe for it. This is what we have and this is what the moderators constantly caution against. But what is really being done in real terms to curb this (aside punitive actions) ? Nothing.

[Adrian]

Indeed there is blame to go around. But what ? Everyone back up in a corner with their virtual backs to the wall ?This is where we are at on the English forums right now.

Or should we all try to learn something from this? Not only learn but formulate some lasting construct so that this rot is arrested.

I don't actually expect this because my 4+ years on this forum tells me a different story.

the forum has readers ( quite a lot) but few posters. Why? because of a realistic fear of irrational sanction. So "real" interaction is choked off and real frustration continues to fester underneath.
But this is what NGD wants. Ego propping posters and less "realistic" ones. They can say it is not so but sadly, it is. (Don't forget you guys gave me + 25 karma a while back for commenting positively on some random feature. Precedents are set. )

I'll use my sanction as an example. I got -15 karma for simply stating that my idea ( squid island (level cap island)) seemingly would make it to the live servers and that my lobbying for 2 YEARS + on that content seems to be bearing fruit. I was sanctioned for my ego. Tell me, who really has the problem? What harm could I possibly cause by writing that ?

The situation in the forums should have given rise to some sort of understanding, rethinking from both sides and some some learning process to make this whole thing better and more friendly. I would go so far as to say a moratorium to move forward .
But, the facilitators and host must be the ones to lead the process. That is NGD. The community is not the facilitator, they are the guests. The onus can't be on guests.

But yet NGD continually abdicate this role yet expect some magical improvement mainly using a " ruler to the knuckles" approach. It is not going to work. All will result is a stunted community.

Now. On to process. Tell me Devs, what process can be facilitated in the absence of any real information? In such nebulous conditions as is the norm now, all that can exist is rumours, innuendo and half truths. The environment is ripe for it. This is what we have and this is what the moderators constantly caution against. But what is really being done in real terms to curb this (aside punitive actions) ? Nothing.

I didn't want to derail this again, but I will only use it because you keep insisting on karmas and personal problems between NGD and you. Your tone is just defying, and that doesn't help at all.

I checked the positive karmas you got from some admins (it was in 2011) and if you allow me, I can post the links to the posts: they look equal to Krungle's posts. You would be very surprised about it.

What I'm trying to say is that with time, we are worn out because patience runs out. That, is just making you post in a way that isn't useful any more for both parties.

Can we please go back to the topic? We already know we suck. So, besides that, can something be done? No? Well, don't post it because we know we suck and it's all our fault.

The big question is: international English-speaking users seem to be a lot more demanding than the Spanish-speaking ones. They complain too, about the same stuff than all of you, but at the same time they also spend time posting about good things and "in-game life". For example, The Inn in this forum is DEAD. It's like there is no need to share things among fellow users here? Why? Those are the interrogatives right now, because about the "NGD sucks" we have a lot of feedback, thanks to all of you for that :biggrin:

[kmdk]

The big question is: international English-speaking users seem to be a lot more demanding than the Spanish-speaking ones. They complain too, about the same stuff than all of you, but at the same time they also spend time posting about good things and "in-game life". For example, The Inn in this forum is DEAD. It's like there is no need to share things among fellow users here? Why? Those are the interrogatives right now, because about the "NGD sucks" we have a lot of feedback, thanks to all of you for that :biggrin:

To be honest there is not anymore in-game life as it was before in old Horus ,not much to say about ,clans importance where just droped to trash ,there was the main place where people made tons of friends.
All good people left game just making place for commercial/trade people.

It's game of traders not game where people have fun.

CoR is just a market place now ,is the way that NGD build CoR ... i've given you the answer ..this time is not a complaint about.RIP Regnum welcome to CoR.

I'm big fan of Pizdius comics ,i think in that comics is the story of each player that joined Regnum... now boost fast scroll to 60 ,sell and trade become pro with gears ... leave game .

And maybe this people now just leave game from first stages of the game because there is a sign from begin ,heard over 4 new players that when they heard that need to buy a mount ,they just left.

Game is very selective now ,you must be ready to accept that game went in a new direction and target new kind of audience ,money and not fun.

You will take it as a critic ,is not this time ,is just a reality that i see around playng the game in both stages Regnum the old fun game and CoR the marketplace :D

Some feature of the game bring frustrations ,when people are frustrated for sure there will be complaints and not life in game etc..

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

I checked the positive karmas you got from some admins (it was in 2011) and if you allow me, I can post the links to the posts: they look equal to Krungle's posts. You would be very surprised about it.


Whats posted here in public forum belongs to NGD, you don't need his permission, post it!


We already know we suck.


Yes you do. No need to be ironic.

You see, you are trying hard to keep your elaborates here smooth and sweet, but most of people don't believe a single word of yours or any NGD representative, due to many unkept promises. You want people to be serious with someone that don't treat them that way? C'mon.

[_Kharbon_]

I don't mean to derail this thread any further, but since the harm was done, I'll post just before it's closed ;)

...
Yes, you are right. The game has changed, players have left. There were better times, and there were worse.

Is this overall 'evolution' a positive change? I dare to say yes. I know- many veteran players would really wish to bring back older version of the game, but would that stop people leaving? If a game remains the same for too long, offers nothing new, it will surely die. This applies especially to MMORPGs.
After every RO/CoR update (call it whatever you wish, it's still RO for me ;P), many people come back to try the new features. New content is therefore keeping players in game, despite the complaints that arise on forums. Some updates are more successful, some less.
Players don't only leave because of the game becoming boring, but also because of their lives. People go to schools, get jobs, move, start relationships, or just find a better game that suits them more. Keeping all the players playing forever would be a dev's dream. It's not possible though.
It's the new players that need to be retained in the game, keep with it, and "fuel" it. Without new players, any MMORPG would die. NGD is aware of the huge problems with player retention, which is especially linked to endless grinding. This belongs to another topic though.

Horus/Raven have both been through better and worse. To be honest, Horus was not doing well before the merge. Yes, there was action, but I dare to say that it was based on lower base population than now. I remember ignis chat to be empty around european midday. Now I see at least few people online every time I log in. Haven is not dying - it was in worse states before.

Sure, the community might have been nicer, but also much smaller. You can either have a handful of mature people playing the game, or a bigger population including mature and immature players. Every larger MMORPG would very much expect to have variable community. You have nice people, and you have not-nice people. Simple as that.

...
You will always find players who complain, regardless of what you do. There will always be that one person, who doesn't like what everyone else does, that's life.
You are a small studio, based in Argentina. You are running a game with players from lot of countries all around the world. Does anyone know about any comparable developer with a similar achivement? I don't.

Sure, there is a lot that sucks about RO. Bugs, imballance, you name it... I know some stuff will never be fixed/introduced, I know I have to wait long for a response from support, I know you don't have time for me, yet - I'm still around.

You suck? Well, why is RO still running? Obviously you are not so bad, if you have so many players, that the system cannot cope with them. You have so many players, you don't have enough time to work with them.

You are far from perfect, but you are also very far from being worthless.

It really is frustrating for both sides. I might have written things in the past, that contradict my previous paragraph, and I might write them in the future again. Playing a mmorpg for a few dollars per player is a huge achivement. If I wanted to play a great mmorpg, I'd move to guild wars, or somewhere. But money is still a huge argument for me. I have friends in this game, regardless of how terrible the community might have become. Lot of the new players are great too..





Since I have written a bit too much, let me sum it up:

TL;DR:
Haven could be way better, but also way worse. It's not dying. Overall heading of the game is good, but improving the basics (if possible) could pay off too.
The developer suck slightly, the players are slightly ingrateful. I don't think any of that can improve though.

[Tamui]

Well, trying not to be biased here.

I didn't seem bois' last posts to be out of order. In fact, as always, he seem to give the best feedback. Any mechanics which will cripple the game badly such as horsing with relic. Where has he said anything out of the line?
If you want to punish someone for his ego why don't you check this thread?
http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100252


"What I'm trying to say is that with time, we are worn out because patience runs out. That, is just making you post in a way that isn't useful any more for both parties."

So let me get this straight. You gave him red karma because you were out of patience?



"Can we please go back to the topic? We already know we suck. So, besides that, can something be done? No? Well, don't post it because we know we suck and it's all our fault."

Yes, many persons of this community certainly has a negative attitude towards you guys, but what are you trying to accomplish? You guys suck?

Kharbon, phrased it well. You aren't worthless. However there's always a pattern to your updates. One step forward, two steps back.


"The big question is: international English-speaking users seem to be a lot more demanding than the Spanish-speaking ones. They complain too, about the same stuff than all of you, but at the same time they also spend time posting about good things and "in-game life". For example, The Inn in this forum is DEAD. It's like there is no need to share things among fellow users here? Why? Those are the interrogatives right now, because about the "NGD sucks" we have a lot of feedback, thanks to all of you for that "

You know, I agree with this one here. You rarely see "Good job!" posts in the English forum. It might also be the case that we almost never get responses either. Which NGD representative has been responding to few of the English threads lately? You, Adrian, nobody else. Then, the English community like vampires, we want to suck all the answers from you :p. Those are the "interrogatives" that I'm perceiving.

I remember well when Frosk was becoming an NGD representative or something like that. The English forum was bustling with positive energy. His weekly visits in game and giving us just a little insight on what is going on was amazingly satisfying. Then it went quiet again.

I also remember when Chilko began bumping and giving us feedback on our suggestions.

There are a few silver linings I remember, though I don't consider myself as one of the old players, I still saw the shift in all of this,

I don't want to seem harsh with my posts, I try my best to type civil and I am trying to accuse nobody of anything.

Best Regards.

[Adrian]

To be honest there is not anymore in-game life as it was before in old Horus ,not much to say about ,clans importance where just droped to trash ,there was the main place where people made tons of friends.
All good people left game just making place for commercial/trade people.

It's game of traders not game where people have fun.

CoR is just a market place now ,is the way that NGD build CoR ... i've given you the answer ..this time is not a complaint about.RIP Regnum welcome to CoR.

I'm big fan of Pizdius comics ,i think in that comics is the story of each player that joined Regnum... now boost fast scroll to 60 ,sell and trade become pro with gears ... leave game .

And maybe this people now just leave game from first stages of the game because there is a sign from begin ,heard over 4 new players that when they heard that need to buy a mount ,they just left.

Game is very selective now ,you must be ready to accept that game went in a new direction and target new kind of audience ,money and not fun.

You will take it as a critic ,is not this time ,is just a reality that i see around playng the game in both stages Regnum the old fun game and CoR the marketplace :D

Some feature of the game bring frustrations ,when people are frustrated for sure there will be complaints and not life in game etc..

I've read about this before, but this is what good feedback looks like. I didn't know that lvl 60 scroll could have to do with the problems in the "way of life" in-game. It makes sense. The marketplace, of course, but we will have to find balance there. Market is also needed to keep the game alive. In fact, it does.


You see, you are trying hard to keep your elaborates here smooth and sweet, but most of people don't believe a single word of yours or any NGD representative, due to many unkept promises. You want people to be serious with someone that don't treat them that way? C'mon.

I don't come here asking to be believed. Believe me, I don't :biggrin: Jokes aside, my intention is to get to better elaborated ideas about the obvious problems. Because problems are obvious, but that small argument where the mother-load is hidden is not easy to find. It's like trial and error: I check with game info most of the things you say and sometimes I find clues to that mother-load. As the game has flaws everywhere, it isn't easy to determine this. I should give you the code and the database for you to understand. But I can't :tonguey:

It's not about seriousness, it's just about discussing. If you're here it must mean you care, don't you? I'm here because of the same reason.

Is this overall 'evolution' a positive change? I dare to say yes. I know- many veteran players would really wish to bring back older version of the game, but would that stop people leaving? If a game remains the same for too long, offers nothing new, it will surely die. This applies especially to MMORPGs.

After every RO/CoR update (call it whatever you wish, it's still RO for me ;P), many people come back to try the new features. New content is therefore keeping players in game, despite the complaints that arise on forums. Some updates are more successful, some less.


The game is still the same, with a lot of changes, but it's still enjoyable. I think that veterans are sick of the same again and again. At first they loved it but now, even if it changes a lot or almost nothing, feels like the same anyway. There are bugs that we can't even get to fix properly... this wears out anyone.


You suck? Well, why is RO still running? Obviously you are not so bad, if you have so many players, that the system cannot cope with them. You have so many players, you don't have enough time to work with them.


We spend a lot of time maintaining the game. Tools which are used for support, for monitoring, etc require daily changes sometimes. Most of the work we do is only seen by ourselves, the ones that are keeping the game alive, technically. Also, not only maintaining, but also improving. For example, it may turn out that there is a potential flaw in one of the APIs, systems, databases and sometimes revamps take place, which take weeks, and the users don't get to know it. We also don't communicate this because of obvious reasons.

So let me get this straight. You gave him red karma because you were out of patience?

It's about sending a message. Why once the admins supported my replies and now they don't? What did change? I used to criticize back then too... so, what happened? And stuff like that.

You know, I agree with this one here. You rarely see "Good job!" posts in the English forum. It might also be the case that we almost never get responses either. Which NGD representative has been responding to few of the English threads lately? You, Adrian, nobody else. Then, the English community like vampires, we want to suck all the answers from you :p. Those are the "interrogatives" that I'm perceiving.

I remember well when Frosk was becoming an NGD representative or something like that. The English forum was bustling with positive energy. His weekly visits in game and giving us just a little insight on what is going on was amazingly satisfying. Then it went quiet again.

I also remember when Chilko began bumping and giving us feedback on our suggestions.

There are a few silver linings I remember, though I don't consider myself as one of the old players, I still saw the shift in all of this,

I don't want to seem harsh with my posts, I try my best to type civil and I am trying to accuse nobody of anything.

See, you think you're being harsh and you're not being it at all. You're being straight-forward. And that's good.

Harsh is telling us we do nothing good and pointing the finger at us directly. It's not "insulting" but it's useless.

My concern was the attitude among the community and the attitude towards us. That's why I interceded at first, demanding some to stop calling themselves names. And what concerns us, just this: criticise, but don't underestimate us. Even if we do wrong, we are keeping the game alive for those that still like it. And I know that, even with all the pessimism around, there will be better times ahead. That's why I keep on doing what I do.

When I enter the game, I go to war a little bit and see people having fun. Why can't I see it in the forums at least a little bit?

[Lebeau]

I don't come here asking to be believed. Believe me, I don't...

...It's not about seriousness, it's just about discussing. If you're here it must mean you care, don't you? I'm here because of the same reason...

...There are bugs that we can't even get to fix properly... this wears out anyone...

...You're being straight-forward. And that's good...

...criticise, but don't underestimate us. Even if we do wrong, we are keeping the game alive for those that still like it. And I know that, even with all the pessimism around, there will be better times ahead. That's why I keep on doing what I do.

When I enter the game, I go to war a little bit and see people having fun. Why can't I see it in the forums at least a little bit?Recently, I was very "straight-forward", but it obviously wasn't "good" in someone's eyes, so as a result, I just finished up a 2-week forum ban for simply & politely asking NGD's Forum Gamemod why 2 of my thread-posts had been a problem, been deleted & were called "Offensive Behavior". I submitted a support ticket that same day on the inequity of this matter & never even got the dignity of any reply at all, proper or otherwise. I think I may still care & am having fun, but for now, please forgive me if I'm just not brimming over with the same "High Hopes" of optimism, camaraderie, openness & progress yours seem to be atm, Senor Adrian...

:¬¬:

"...There's a hunger still unsatisfied
Our weary eyes still stray to the horizon
Though down this road we've been so many times..."

-Pink Floyd

[Adrian]

Recently, I was very "straight-forward", but it obviously wasn't "good" in someone's eyes, so as a result, I just finished up a 2-week forum ban for simply & politely asking NGD's Forum Gamemod why 2 of my thread-posts had been a problem, been deleted & were called "Offensive Behavior". I submitted a support ticket that same day on the inequity of this matter & never even got the dignity of any reply at all, proper or otherwise. I think I may still care & am having fun, but for now, please forgive me if I'm just not brimming over with the same "High Hopes" of optimism, camaraderie, openness & progress yours seem to be atm, Senor Adrian...

:¬¬:

"...There's a hunger still unsatisfied
Our weary eyes still stray to the horizon
Though down this road we've been so many times..."

-Pink Floyd

See what I'm talking about? It always comes to an individual issue. Not what really matters: the main topic. If you got a ban, you deserved it. Move on.

PS: And I love Pink Floyd, your quote is very unrelated. Hear the song again, it's not about people failing to deliver and acknowledging it. It's about those that believe they're doing the right thing but want to go back to how it was before. So, you're preaching to the choir :biggrin: And we're very sure we aren't doing the right thing, just struggling to find a possible way to do so. Man, I hate when people quote the songs wrongly. :tonguey:

Please, let's get back on topic.

[Lebeau]

Uh, thankee', but I think my quote is spot-on: it's about someone who almost instinctively still dares to hope, yet fully realizes those hopes will likely soon be dashed, are in vain & a futile effort. Experiences over time have given this bitter perspective & yes, a deep longing to go back to an innocent time before these bitter realizations is indeed desired, but itself also is in vain & a futile effort, again knowingly so.

Guess I should never, ever again ask why some post of mine gets deleted then, if that's all it takes to "deserve" getting banned. :confused:

On topic: I like the idea of a pre-1.6.2 server with only certain of the changes made since then implemented. Opinions?

[_Kharbon_]

On topic: I like the idea of a pre-1.6.2 server with only certain of the changes made since then implemented. Opinions?
Not possible technically, a developer stated somewhere, not possible in terms of support and resources, there are too many servers anyway.

[Lebeau]

Not possible technically, a developer stated somewhere, not possible in terms of support and resources, there are too many servers anyway.
Sometimes the way back IS the way forward; has NGD really ever seriously considered a major rollback of game on ALL servers to a mostly pre-1.6.2 (with certain fixes) version of this game.

The increased-player-move-speed implimented in fall '10, for example, greatly increased latency & position-error issues & it also favored unranged classes due to reducing the time taken to close with a casting/attacking/unmoving target; it should go. Certain spells were overly-nerfed in effect (S-terror, etc.) &/or range (ambush, will domain, etc.) or duration without any commensurate reduction of those spells' mana-costs or cd, yet the disallowing of stacked effects was actually a very solid, good notion. A rather small patch this spring is seemingly responsible for the gamewide increased lag/latency since then. Much just needs to simply go if it cannot be debugged/repaired.

A new, possibly %-based, proportionalized armor/soak system is greatly needed for whatever version of CoR NGD distributes/develops. These & other ideas have been floating around for months & even years. Several threads on these forums exist solely to list all/most of these various ideas/changes. The playerbase (with special nods to certain individuals) has surely done our part & what we could....

Players can only suggest the same beneficial & needful changes so many times & in so many ways. The 'fix' is all on NGD's end; it has to actually happen, at least start happening, or we eventually quit caring & give up, because NGD won't/can't do it & won't partner with or allow anyone else to fix &/or complete this game either. "It is what it is" just ain't gonna' cut it over the long haul. It's becoming a no-win scenario: game is bleeding just too many players now, but isn't currently attracting sufficient long-term replacements for them. Just sayin'.... :(

[bois]

Yes. it may be an interpersonal issue but I am actually past that. I simply used it as an example of hypersensitivity on the part of a moderator which is not a good quality for dispensing moderation. Did I deserve it? well let's say I agree to disagree.

We are on topic because this thread called "Hello, Haven is dying" also has its part to play in the interactions of this forum which are ultimately transmitted to other forums elsewhere on the net and sometimes leeches into the chats and discussions in game. Those discussions have their impacts.

"We all suck" This attitude is part of the problem. A preconceived notion that NGD has implanted into its psyche ,never mind the changes and turnover of community posters over the years. Never mind all the positive posts over the years.
Because of this implant, the will to even try seems to not even be there.

But, we can discuss the way forward if you like. First thing is that the Spanish community and culture is not the International culture. Trying to reconcile the two as one is probably not the best way to go.
Secondly, NGD does not actually need to have some kind of intimate interaction with the English community.
All is needed is some kind of dependable framework within which the community can rely.

Let me give an example.
How about an annual or semi annual "address to the community" by the company head. Surely someone can take 1 hour out of 365 or 182 days to write up the gains and losses for the year past and an outlook for the coming year? It need not even be a discussion. A short separate Q&A thread can be opened for 3 days to ventilate any issues or questions. Or not.

Secondly. How about actually posting some changelogs and a quick outline of Amun beta updates when they appear? Direct players to the areas of discussion. You know, take leadership.

Third .If an idea takes some solid traction in the forums, how about someone coming on and just quickly discussing the feasibility of that idea? If it is a no-go , just say so. If it is under review just say so. No promises. It need not be some long drawn out thing. I think many would appreciate it.

How about someone coming on once in a while and actually allaying some fears by the community and killing silly rumours in the roots by supplying some solid info. This need not even happen more than once a month. maybe once in 3 months is good enough.

A basic framework like that is a start and could actually do wonders. But, if you have convinced yourselves that "you suck" maybe it is just too hard to try.

Sidebar ...
The funny thing is this: Adrian you want me to head back to topic and I am quite willing to do so.
There is something that is up for discussion and it is about the same Squid island. While someone was watching my tone, something else slipped under the carpet. I was trying to discuss the topic of what level bracket that island should be. Should it be 1-14 or some other level bracket? If you want community interaction, it seems that that topic would be a nice place to start.
My assumption is that content is in large part to help retention and improve content quality. So, it directly relates to Haven and its alleged dying.
Yet, nobody official even broached the subject .

Care to discuss?

[Adrian]

Can't go back to a previous version of the game. Don't insist on that.

Bois, you need a sarcasm detector. Of course I acknowledge "we suck", but we wouldn't continue with what we do if we really believed it. I'm just saying that we already know most of you think that and when a post contains "NGD fails at this, NGD this, NGD that" it's just not useful at all and mostly it gets to personal issues.

kmdk posted some feedback that can lead to something useful here. Identifying behaviours leads to solutions. I compared both communities because there is a notorious behaviour difference even if complaints are the same.

Look at both last posts: they are suggestions, personal matters and a non-friendly tone (ie: care to discuss?).

And please, be brief! Thank you!

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

First thing first, did you mean mother lode? Like veta madre? I want to be sure that I understood correctly.


I don't come here asking to be believed. Believe me, I don't :biggrin:


Ye I know you are the PR guy.
Jokes aside...


Jokes aside, my intention is to get to better elaborated ideas about the obvious problems. Because problems are obvious, but that small argument where the mother-load is hidden is not easy to find. It's like trial and error: I check with game info most of the things you say and sometimes I find clues to that mother-load. As the game has flaws everywhere, it isn't easy to determine this. I should give you the code and the database for you to understand. But I can't :tonguey:


Do you really read this forum? So many people made long lists of problems, these are not mythical El Dorados. Why are you searching for something that was presented many times in very good, systematic way? Noone wants you to fix everything at once, just take a very small chunk and fix it as a sign of goodwill. No, instead you push for expansions that cause more problems. But hey it was said many times too.

[bois]

You need a sarcasm detector as well. Mine works perfectly. My first part needed to address an obvious issue. I have and I move on.

If you read the forums as you say you do , you basically know that I don't do 'brief'. Never did, never will. What I have to say usually requires expansion so things can be clear.

Aside of all that, in the second half of my post I came back to the thread a hand and tried to give some feedback. That is, a suggestion framework of communication that might just work and reduce a log jam of frustration on the forums which may eventually lead to a better forum environment.

But, you Adrian, not me, decided to go off tangent on my tone again. I have moved on why don't you? Why don't you look at the meat of my last post which are suggestions and stop focussing on the personality? You want suggestions , I gave you one, lets look at it.

So, anyway I raised an issue about a new feature in game that could be a really positive one. That is squid island. One that could have massive implication for player retention in the mid levels my view. But I have a concern about it. A realistic concern and not a trollish one. That is, will the level bracket of 1-14 really give the lasting impact that is hoped? And ,I actually do care to discuss it because I would hate to see such an extensive feature not give the impact it really should give.

Let's press on with the topic as you requested.

[ieti]

Forum is so full with bug reports, feature requests, annoyments, balance proposals... There was even threads to systematize them.

As i know if something good happens people actually are very enthusiastic to play and realm chat is really alive and positive. Not to mention most of old players wait for 'that update' which will balance and fix game instead of bringing some new 'exiting' (not!) eye candy or dunno what else.

There are plenty of frapant bugs, balance fails and game mechanic issues. Start to fix them and you will have happy and possitive community.

As example i will give:
- relic can be carried on horse. Why why why....
- relic timer tick when realm invades and after invasion is possible to steal relics again without timer wait. This is largely abused...
- relic timer is reset only when relic owner realm recapures fortification. Why this - reset it on every recap and simplify things up...
- if invasion happens enemy dragon is summoned?!? I thnik this should be defending dragon which should ally the defense. Who made up this as idea have really twisted logic...
- Dragon damage is absurdly high. If it is made like old dragons damage noyone will rumble...20k stomp...7k blaze...who will survive it...

This is most proclaimed game feature - invasions. This should be ideal and bug free.

This list can be continued and become monstrocity...

--

Maybe english community is more negative, because of the smaller numbers. Problems are more visible and people get annoyed more easily.

Anyway alot of us still play and we know you guys own our souls. :)

[bois]

All true Ieti.

All those things are well ventilated by the community and we wait for some kind of response.
But, while we wait we need not go back even so far as there is something just as worrying right now.

We have content coming up (in Beta on Amun now) that has high implications for Haven in particular and even that is not being discussed before it goes live. At least not discussed here.
Shouldn't this stuff be discussed and concerns addressed?

Is it not best to deal with potential issues before they go live and end up causing frustrations that could have been avoided and the need for hotfixes? Surely, the upcoming content could be held back and polished if needed.
The point is that players are seeing glaring issues, which may go ignored as the Beta may go live as is. The bigger fear is that if it does go live with conceptual issues, those issues will never be revisited for review.

There are calls for positive process but when it is initiated by the community many times it just remains stillborn.

[Adrian]

Still not getting my point. I'll explain myself again: I know all of your suggestions, there are a lot and they are mostly good. We already have that in our reach.

I'm interested in behaviours created by our mistaken changes (and by positive changes too) which can hint a lead to that mother lode (thank you Dupa_z_Zasady for the correction) because is something that I'm interested in. You can avoid this if you want to. But please don't insist on things that I already read in other threads. Why? Because most of the feedback you're mentioning has been already selected and communicated through time. I don't decide, but there were some times that some arguments based on in-game behaviours made decisions come after them immediately.

This is not about who is right or who is wrong or which will be the best way to solve something. It's about finding those behaviours as an voluntary request that I'm making. Again, you can ignore it and continue the thread about Haven as you wish, but please: choose if you're interested in what I say or just go on and ignore my proposal.

[Aries202]

Game has changed a lot since most of us had the "CoR is a good game, NGD do the best they can" until you started trying to milk every cent out of this game.

Dig back far enough into the forum and you will see a Dev claimed game will never become pay to win.

Although game isn't fully P2W it's very close. Like someone stated above, in order for you to compete you need to pay. What message does that bring to a free user who just wants to play and enjoy the game. They can't, as the game is mainly for capped players with money willing to spend.

I've yet to understand the reasoning for NGD adding attributes to weapons/armors.

If it was up to me, I'd keep everything droppable, and the best items being what's already in the game, bosses. You'd say NGD has to make money, but you make a lot with boosters, and a little suggestion I would of added was to just keep adding more armors. And keep armor resistance/attribute gems.

We have warmaster armor, champion armor... You could of kept going with this idea instead of adding all this eye candy shit that separates a free user from a payer.

People have different mentalities like kmdk stated.

1. Get on, hunt with friends find nothing, log off.
2. Get on, see what you can trade for money, log off.
3. Get on, see who you can scam, sell what you've stolen for money.
4. Get on, hack the game, get off. (sucks that this is on the list right?)
5. Get on, chat, log off.

That's pretty much an every day agenda for most people, you can also add the people trying to finally get WM just desperately looking for war.

The game is dying on Haven, it's just the way it is and how it's going to be. Game is so far ahead with errors that you can't even undo the mistakes.

Game was fun, still is a little with friends. That's it though... The way I'm thinking though is hopefully NGD opens a new MMO, with everything you've learned. You'll probably delivery us a nice simple game like what CoR once was.

That's just the way I feel.

[Groark]

Reasons why Haven is dying are already known but well, here they are once more:

1.- In my opinion the implementation of BZ was the beginning of the end of this Haven server (and for all small servers btw). This BZ has caused problems even to a large populated server like RA.

2.- The second reason of general discontent of all the servers is the direction that this game has taken towards the Pay to Win concept. Of course NGD has to make money. No one in his right mind can deny that, but there are other ways to make money. This pay to win has created a big gap between the 'poor' and the 'rich' customer. The 'poor' guy cannnot compete with the 'rich' guy that can get über equipment. Especially for new players this gap is too large.

3.- Third reason is the terrible amount of bugs, most of which are really very old.

4.- Forth reason is de class unbalance.- Barbs and Marx as the op classes. Locks the weakest of all. (but this is my opinion)

5.- Fifth reason es the realm population unbalance.- Very difficult to fix but nevertheless a big problem, especially for small servers like Haven. A problem even more aggravated by multirealming. Players switch to the winning realm leaving the other two almost empty. New players starting in the 'losing' realm get frustrated after being killed 100000 times and leave the game. Old players loyal to their realm stay longer but at the end they leave the game/server too.

And more reasons but I think those above are the most important in my opinion.

Important is also that each server should be approach in a different way. You cannot treat all the servers the same way as the Spanish Ra. The difference in mentality is way too big.

:hat:

PS.- I forgot the insane random resists....

[Lebeau]

Behaviors in response to good & bad changes? Mother Lode? WTF are you really even asking here? I'm not sure I completely understand the question. Sounds like the pundits who called RO an online sociology experiment may have been right all along after all, but I'll proceed with the limited comprehension I currently possess & hope I am on the right track:

The only really central & overwhelming behavioral commonality (i.e. "mother lode") in RO I see repeated in game & in forum feedback, over & over, again & again, over a very long time period is COMMUNITY & ironically/poetically, the most commonly agreed-upon element/opinion among the RO-masses for years now is their mutual almost knee-jerk reactionary dislike/disdain of anything & everything NGD for a litany of well-documented offenses, real or imagined. If a 'unity'-dynamic is the thing/behavior you were really asking us about, then this is where & what that 'mother lode' currently is I suppose.

Sorry, but your own 'behaviors' & a very significant language barrier dug this grave, so just lay in it. Hell, use this ffs. Capitalize on it: once a month (or w/e), sell admission tickets to a private island CTF-event where these paying players of all 3 realms can kick the living shit out of all the NGD reps guarding the flag (& the other paying players too), like 3 lynch-mobs crossed with a triple-gang-riot, for an hour-long spectacular. Let them all freely vent-&-bitch in an islandwide-chat & pour-it-on your personal avatars (& their enemies) all that anger & frustration they experience due to feeling neglected, ignored, misunderstood, stymied, denied, cheated, etc. Winning realm's paying players (or maybe even entire winning realm) gets some perk-prize at the event's end. It could work (& in more than one way)....

Sorry but just couldn't keep this short. All this may seem satirically sarcastic & even mean-spirited, but it truly isn't, & neither was my last post, despite claims made otherwise. It's a pulls-no-punches, honest, rational, objective, relevant assessment of the overall circumstance & also a workable plan to exploit said circumstance for revenue (& relief). It's odd, but often by totally embracing & even celebrating all those bad nicknames, labels, stereotypes, pressures, etc. others force upon us, do we actually move beyond them into uncharted new territory & opportunities. Your choice. We're all back-seat-drivers, Adrian, you're the ones at-the-wheel. Own it. DRIVE!

[bois]

TL; DR alert.....:dumbofme:

Okay, we have been down this road before but why not one more spin.

I am going to put aside the obvious communication shortcomings on the forum and the frustrations caused by it for now. It is a problem but I think I have ventilated it quite well enough in the thread.

Historically, Haven/ Horus server was weak. This I felt was due to the cultural differences and language barriers that led to weak communication. As such, the international community did not have enough buy in to the project. Literally, Linux support was the main thing that peaked international interest.

The beginning of the serious rot for Haven and small servers probably started to take hold around the time of Warmasters patch. There were many good thing about it and some were not so good. The bottom line about that time is the change in tact by NGD to probably a less indie approach and a more hard profit based approach. Due to the state of the server (saturated, mature leading to weak sales) , this had to happen and I agreed with the approach in theory.

This new aproach signalled a change in focus for players too. The changes in drop rates, gear and a few other things encouraged an environment of selfishness rather than selflessness. A reduction in free resources of quality and a weak economic system helped fuel this hoarding approach. The distribution of virtual wealth became skewed with negative results.
Now, for NGD's formula to work and make money, this had to happen. Without that "arms race" profits would not come in. So from a revenue point it was a good call but from a community point it started a decay.

I think errors were also made with the way enhancements, certain equipment like off hand weapons, gems and so on were implemented. Like Groak wrote, a frustration built up between the haves and have nots and this disparity reduced the pure fun and made things more like a career of drudgery in collecting mags and other mundane things just to compete. Again, this embittered some and made things a bit toxic at times.
As I write this, NGD's system works but we have a situation with players listing off a plethora of items for sale , a lot of questionable quality for incredible prices. Prices an average player cannot ever hope to afford barring buying premium to trade. This has now led to a system of operation of "black market" with trade of items for Xim. Right out in the open. How will this look to the new player? Surely a have not or new player would be extremely frustrated by this course. Why stay in a game with systems such as this?

Some people say bugs. There will always be bugs. The frustration for players and playing is that there seems to be no fixes coming for the really old ones. That may not be true but the perception is there and perception is reality. When this frustration boils over to chats, new prospects reading those chats are put off.

Imbalances, real and imagined are incredibly hard to fix. Changes in mechanics happen. Classes roles shift. It happens. But, players choose roles that tend to suit their personalities for their main. The enjoyment is greater that way. When players are led to a place where you have cookie cutter builds just to compete it affects the RvR, the player and the general quality of gameplay.
More often than not it leads to a behaviour pattern of building a character for oneself and not really for team play.
This was reinforced by having so much power points which encouraged such approaches rather than players dedicating points to the group effort.
Example : How often do we see support locks now ? If I am not mistaken , Dupa may be the only one left in Haven for Ignis.

Those issues among others lead to situations of elitism, shunning, trolling and other things which retard the growth of the server and its community at large. Because of this constant retardation we have too low a population . A population which shifts like migrating birds from realm to realm and back again thus causing even more population pressures and causing infighting.

The behaviours exhibited on these same forums are a reflection of what occurs in game. Reading these behaviours, especially the negative ones can give many clues as to what the issues are in the game and specifically what occurs on Haven. All the info you need is right there. The players are basically screaming it in plain view to the devs. It is up to the devs to leave the emotion part and pick out the substance.
Almost every single thing the devs need is right here in these forums.

[Krungle]

Almost every single thing the devs need is right here in these forums.

Indeed, a true goldmine is here. From advancing the programmable short-cut keys/hot keys and making them 12 long to fit the bar, letting the second bar hotkey be programmable, making the Item Mall hotkey changeable, adding new features to both map and mini-map including more intuitive pop ups on mouse over, etc. (I have noticed that more details have been added to the maps since I started and that is a start) And many more ideas have been posted on how to keep new players a bit longer with a more polished GUI.

Also mentioned have been changes to the Clans to make them more attractive, more socially desirable (like banks, a better ranking system, etc) to keep players through the mid-game.

Also mentioned have been a slight loosening on the really good gear drop rates and over all drop rates at the higher levels, which would keep the end game players better and stop the slide into P2W (which, in part is mentioned above with the player sales of items for Xim). Edit: I am not talking about over-all quantity of drops, there is a Xim Scroll for that, but the quality of drops. Twice the chance of .0001 to get a Orange Item grinding is still next to nothing, especially when the double chance is merely you get to roll twice rather than roll at a .ooo2 chance. It is the orange items that are selling for Xim now, not green or purple (so much anyway).

Active in-game GMs and events are also crucial to retain all levels of players.

The 'Motherload' you seek is already here in the forums. It is no 'one thing' but a compilation of several things, things that can be worked on one at a time and some of which can be done immediately (like a Halloween event). Others can be done soon, after a little managerial negotiations (like GM-pay).
Other need to involve the devs but should be fairly easy to fix (like the gear drop rates). Others may take more time but shouldn't be that hard (like hotkey customization). And still others may take steps, steps already begun but should continue to be walked (like the map and other gui/window features). A few may take some time but are worthy of the effort (like a clan update).

But everything, and I mean everything, you seek is already on the forums. No gold mine will mine itself. El Dorado is right in front of your nose. It is time to stop getting lost by looking at the trees and get out the pick ax and start digging.

[Mehran]

I'm glad I quit and the only reason I came back is from that stupid nostalgic email NGD sent me regarding the beginning of instances! :dumbofme:

Just skimming the first few pages of this thread.. wow.. I sure did love the IN-GAME community a lot, and then after a few years of playing people redirected me to the forum... what a mistake that was! :dumbofme: The OUT-of-GAME community is just awful in that it is composed of 99% arguments, trolling, just negative attitude! Now I'm not saying everything out-of-game is bad (the friends you make in the game) but almost every conversation out of the game with non-friends leads to them being just that, a non-friend.

Everyone still playing the game - I wish you the best and just calm down! :) Relax, make friends, but most importantly *do not let people get to you* most of everyone being naive is just a little kid (as I was) and they'll either mature in game or like me mature and leave the game.

tl;dr: stop stressing over these little forum fights and get back in the game shooting at each other! :)

[badassmaster]

No gold mine will mine itself.
Bullshit. If I can build a robot to pour my coffee from a coffee machine, I can build an army of robots to mine gold.

[bois]

I

tl;dr: stop stressing over these little forum fights and get back in the game shooting at each other! :)

Were it not for some of these debates, some features might never get to the game in the way they got there. The battles fought here and sometime hard won are to the benefit of all in game (and NGD sometimes) whether they agree with our approach or not.
We do the work for the ones without voice or those who choose not to speak.

Negative/ positive, it is all for the evolution and longevity of the game.

[Krungle]

I can build .

Logic evades you, or is it language and conceptualization?

[kmdk]

I've read about this before, but this is what good feedback looks like. I didn't know that lvl 60 scroll could have to do with the problems in the "way of life" in-game. It makes sense. The marketplace, of course, but we will have to find balance there. Market is also needed to keep the game alive. In fact, it does.


I will just go a little deep in this "lvl 60 scroll" ..ofcorse is not the only factor that kills " in game life".

My point it was that before this group grinding to lvl-up ,with or without scrolls ,finding a clan that helping you to grind ,to kill certain monsters for quests and lvl up ,made slow process of lvl-up and players had time to cooperate ,to "live" one each other ,to socialize.

As in comics of pizdius ,making first friends ,going to grind ,helping to kill ,making quests ,helping to lvl up made a great way to cooperate and socialize.

The point that is missing from game at the moment is the "adventure".
The "adventure" side of the game is the first impact that makes a new incomer to leave ,he will feel alone ,none around to chat ,to help each other to make friends.

Before ,even old players that need to make a new chars ,were forced to play inside realm ,and with they experience ,meet new incomers,added to they clans ,helped them to lvl up ,make quests etc ,was great way to make new friends and socialize.
Now a old player just will boost his char at lvl 60 ,and will be in war zone.

I still remember when inners realms were full with grinders ,like this made my friends and joined a clan ,like this has been borned a great friend sheep that kept me for first 2 years in game.

Now back to the adventure side of the game that now is complete missing and destroyed.
I understand the fact that "the market place" keep game alive and agree,but there is a point that cut this adventure.

Adventure meant in old time even when gone with clans to kill epic or legendary mobs from inside realm ,to get a few low lvls gears that helped me to lvl-up.
In this game NGD focus in competition between players ,correct from this point in a game that focus on items mall,but i've heard a new concept this days in a new MMO from market.They focus on socialize side of the game a lots much ,the only competition is between realms and not between players from same realm.They added tons of epic monsters in same realm ,around 100 i think ,that drop hight diversity of gears.The think it was cool was that they dropped equal drops for all party participants to kill that monster.
WHy i say this ,because this encourage the cooperation ,doesn't split people in same realm to hate each other for a drop ,or because they are rejected from a party as it's now from dragon.
Also they added 20 unique tasks only for clans.This encourage also to join a clan and cooperate to get items.

I don't say or make suggestions ,it was just few example where is missing the point that RO had once ,the adventure and the cooperation/socialize.
Ofcorse CoR must have a unique style and not copy other games ,but seems others already find solutions at adventure/socialize/cooperate side of the game.

At the moment are so many factors ,that split people and make hate each others:
-in invasion system :split groups in gems focus and noble focus …. also noble split people between cooperate for same groups an hate from others that not waiting them for noble.
-dragons : split people by classes and by selective partys ,group of friends and ..how do you think a new incomer will be accepted in that party ?
-epic boss jew owners and non-owners …hating because of this op-ness…
-even system himself of random resists
-premium players and non-premium players with legendary and common market gears players.

People focus now on frustration of gameplay ,resist/gears and not on storys/love/in game life.

The game himself has lots of flows in cooperate/socialize side of game ,it's not about complaint ,it's just a fact that kills this side of game …. as i told before ,NGD must be ready and accept the fact is not a game of :" people got married on this game " …or "great comics created by fans",or "great stores created by fans"…
Maybe there still will be this kind of action on RA ,on spanish community ,but this makes sense ,its 10 times hight community than Haven one …. also NGD must understand that that side of spanish community that play game is addicted to spanish ,but on a international server thinks are different,a player that chosen a argentinian game can with easy chose a japanease or german game swell ,is very selective category of players.

A local country community chose his own country community ,a international players search for certain feature of the game ,as at begin was just because of native linux client ,or great feature of the game ,gameplay ,community etc … this are my arguments why you can't compare RA players base with international players base.I'm a Romanian players ,on my country are over 20 MMO some of them with over 5k players online ,but i was searching a game for certain game feature that a game must have :linux client ,elf/dwarfs classes (because i was big fan of Lord of the rings movie),socialize in game … at that moment when joined Ro it was perfect ,now after 5 years of gameplay ,most of this feature changed .

[Krungle]

...

Many good points, but most of what you are comparing this game to has a lot bigger budget for such things. I agree that the cookie-cutter dragon groups are a shame but that I blame more on the community, and I did warn them against doing it, than I do NGD. In Alsius-Haven there is plenty of chat in the Realm channel, even if some of it is trash talk, but you get down to the battles and those that seem the most hated are actually the ones that are more often than not relied on to carry the day.

Certain things that frustrate people like the Alsius Split are actually good tactics because it also splits the enemy and confuses them as to what to do, where to go. Sure, things are more successful when it doesn't happen, which is rare, but I think part of that is due to the fact that the enemy expects the split.

There have been many suggestions for upgrading the Clan system over the years, a fairly comprehensive list made by yours truly. Such things should be addressed, now, now that the Dragons are active and once they have the gear on them.

But most of what you talk about I think is really up to the community to do things about, not NGD or any other company. I will often switch to a lower level toon that is camped in Inner to help with Throgg, Hellu or the Pendies, and know many others that do the same. I also know many Clans that welcome newer players to their ranks, and like all games I also know Clans that do not.

When a community falls apart it is not the government's fault as much as the community's. If there is any blame on the government it is often for doing too much. But, in this case, NGD, our government, can put things in the game, but like the Battle Grounds, it does not mean we will take advantage of the content. They can add dragons but they cannot stop the people from saying you need one particular group makeup to succeed (which is, imho, not only stupid but also something I cannot say on this forum).

Anyway, I think that continuing Holiday Events is the best short term fix while they work on other projects that have already been too often suggested in these very same forums. Remember the old adage: One can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

[ieti]

As for alot of you new dragons are a fail for me they are a better solution. Old times are gone sadly and we need to make current solution better for everyone...

First they split boss interested people from war ones. And this makes it not so big deal, because instances are pretty small - 15 people. Old times when whole realm gone to kill dragon after wars are long gone. We better fix a situation when people leave wars because of dragons.

Second it makes boss interested people want to war. They need all relic to do their stuff and raid. Which brings some action.

Third they bring back clans and community in business. To make a raid you need a group and without clan or friends you can not do it. Well there is need of improvement of clan system to make it usable. There is need of improvement of raid system parties too.

Fifth removal of negative wishes and addition of new raid ones. Well this includes raid people into wars too.

--

Well it have disadvantages as making archers out of the raids but before they was not so useful too...

I think in long term this will prove better solution for both groups - war and raid ones.

I even will call for making all bosses instanced - realm ones like Evendim and lower level ones like Satarco.

[Lebeau]

Instances split populations & split realms. NO refutation is possible. CoR once had the distinction of being perhaps the only single-shared-instance gameworld in mmorpg's. This really set it apart, but ... First, instanced arenas ... Then, instanced TDM & CTF ... Now, instanced dragons ... FFS! ALL instances (other than for lowbies to get a taste of & for pvp/rvr) are really bad think-thru & are the ruination of Haven (along with alot of other really bad think-thru's over past 3 to 4 years) ... PERIOD!

:bangin:

[Zas_]

Instances split populations & split realms. NO refutation is possible. CoR once had the distinction of being perhaps the only single-shared-instance gameworld in mmorpg's. This really set it apart, but ... First, instanced arenas ... Then, instanced TDM & CTF ... Now, instanced dragons ... FFS! ALL instances (other than for lowbies to get a taste of & for pvp/rvr) are really bad think-thru & are the ruination of Haven (along with alot of other really bad think-thru's over past 3 to 4 years) ... PERIOD!

:bangin:

So true. So sad.

[Eloyente]

die pls...

[Ulti19]

Instances split populations & split realms. NO refutation is possible. CoR once had the distinction of being perhaps the only single-shared-instance gameworld in mmorpg's. This really set it apart, but ... First, instanced arenas ... Then, instanced TDM & CTF ... Now, instanced dragons ... FFS! ALL instances (other than for lowbies to get a taste of & for pvp/rvr) are really bad think-thru & are the ruination of Haven (along with alot of other really bad think-thru's over past 3 to 4 years) ... PERIOD!

:bangin:

I don't know if the instances split the realms so much, hell I couldn't even manage to get into one tdm during the 'competition', but I agree that the game used to be super unique and now is clearly following a pattern almost every single mmo has, instances. Personally, I hate them, I enjoyed seeing our entire realm trying for alasthor all at once not waiting in line to go in some cave (which took around 1 year to design when other bugs that would have made the game 100 times better could have been knocked out finally) and hoping to be part of someone's party. But this Is just my own personal opinion, it is not a rag on ngd.

This game was wicked for me back when we didn't have jump or even the graphics update and we all had huge Disney feet and looked like polygons from 1999. I swear I'm 100% sure that even back then horus had the same if not even more population than now, four years later. Let's face it, for horus then raven and haven, this game is designed for what seems to be a select few who share a similar taste, because population wise it's stagnant. It's the same 20 people from each server playing:p

Also, you know guys, many of us have been complaining on the forums for sooooo long now, 99% being the super old players who seem to have loved a part of the game a long time ago. Truth is the game has people still playing it, even if some don't see it anymore as fun or some think that ngd is going in a bad direction. It's time to let go and move on to something else when this is how you constantly feel about something. I tried the game out last month out of a feeling of nostalgia, I left quickly, it's just not for me anymore, despite a big chunk of an epic community still playing it after all these years (that's something amazing to be said about the game, but nobody ever says that.) If the game gave you something awesome for such a long time in the past, but you don't like it anymore, it's not ngd's fault per se but rather that we've outgrown the fun this game gave us once. We keep saying instances killed this or that, even I say that, it's just my opinion, but if they really went back in time would you still find the game enjoyable or would we keep ragging on something else? The bugs were always there that's true, it is a darned pet peeve of mine in this game, but hey, they were there 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, and I loved playing the fkn sh** out of this game alllll the time nonetheless. Find something else buddies :p

[Slartibartfast]

Beside all of known problems - tons of bugs, class imbalance, armor calculation, lame mages gear - this newest update put CoR on trial period.

Server is dead. All of the action is grouping for dragon kill. All realms have their relics, no one don't push others, status quo, everyone happy.

Except those who wants some action. I called for action couple of times, but all of it is ignored. I can gather group of 2-3 ppl and try to gank grinders. This is not what this game supposed to be.

Anyway, I wasted few hours today without any fun on CoR. I will give it a another chance in next few days, and after this... We shall see..

[bois]

Ulti, you are probably right. Maybe.
For us super old players ( I am one) the nostalgia is something hard to get over.
What is even harder to get over is some of the mind boggling decisions that were made over the years by the development team. How can one grab defeat from the jaws of victory so many times?
Now, I have been an ardent supporter of the game's potential for many years. I am sure many ,many others saw it too. this game could be a giant killer even on a small budget.
But, one needs to remember the indie roots and if one wants to break the international market, you got to at least talk and get a feel for what is wanted out there.And I am not talking about behaviours. That is for sociology class. You don't need to study that when you have a virtual Tome called the suggestions subforum . It is all right there. Besides, all the behaviours in game are expressed in some form here. It is not difficult to read trend lines.

The thing is, the game could have been revolutionised, brought current, applied new concepts yet, retain its original flavour while being conservative in expenditure. Right now it is a Frankenstein monster with bits and bobs added that don't even fit right.
The thing is that most of the ideas NGD produce are not bad they are just unfinished. They remain unpolished and then become abandoned for new content which itself remains unfinished. Rinse and repeat.
Invasions > Incomplete.
Warmasters > Incomplete.
CoR > Work in progress. Good work in parts but we shall see if it gets polished.

All that is quite unfortunate. Unfortunate considering the foundations of many areas of content are good and simply need review and refresh before it becomes too stale.

[Lebeau]

TL;DR-ALERT:warning:

Same shit is true in tv .... years ago, right outa' the box, Fox put the series 'Firefly' (perhaps the best all-around tv-show ever made imho) into the friday slot up against the #1 rated show on tv atm: 'The X-Files'. Result? It didn't immediately get the massive ratings Fox desired or smash ol' 'X' in the face overnight. Result? It ran only a 1/2 season & got cancelled; blindly arrogant Fox-execs blamed everyone/everything but themselves ofc.

Fox wanted a purely formula production, like some utterly typical Aaron Spelling-shitrag lowest-common-denominator drivel. Joss Whedon gave us all his best work & it surely showed. It's still a cult classic today & is the only series cancelled after only a 1/2 season to inspire so much attention, acclaim & appeal that it spun off a successful theater release movie. Only Trekkers can compete for such a loyal fanbase.

Point is: as others have said for years, this game's pure-RvR format truly has AWESOME potential & it rightly should, the original DAoC (which CoR is derived from) is still THE mmorpg all others since are compared against. It's the gold-standard. Not one game since has really captured the essence of DAoC's earlier appeal, but CoR comes closest in many ways, but keeps going off in the wrong directions trying to be like all the other mmorpg's. Dumb.

Instead of building on those differences & trying to stand out as unique & polishing all that remains undone & really needs finishing, time & again, NGD has thoroughly squandered the opportunities, it's time, effort & $ on making CoR just another copy of everything else already out there. By doing so, they're losing what once made game special, they're losing many once-loyal longterm-customers & wrongly choosing to go into heavy direct competition with every last one of the other cookie-cutter lookalikes already out there. Dumber.

Both NGD & tv-execs need to learn the same lesson: there is so much more out there now: not 3 tv-networks, but 100's! The old market viewing share of 35+% is a pipedream impossibility now. Instead, one must target a very specific demographic & set-of-tastes & stay true to them. Success is now measured moreso in ongoing consumer product loyalty than it is in temporary market shares & high turnover volatility. Just quit chasing what cannot be caught anymore & instead learn to be happy with a smaller-by-% market share, but with a fanatically devoted playerbase (IF you do your jobs right that is). Smart!

Conclusion? If continuation of maximized consumer loyalty is sought (& it rightly should be), NGD then MUST make extensive use of consumer feedback. As many others have said for years, these forums are filled with the best-of-brand advice by ppl who have played for years & know what makes or breaks this game, often better than the devs. Take & use the best of that advice. Be unique & special, polish & finish the game, remove what won't work or cannot be fixed & brand-success WILL follow. Smarter!

TL;DR: Listen to your playerbase. Quit trying to be like other mmorpg's. Instances for endgame lvl toons are bad. Please fix, finish, replace or remove existing broken game content 1st, all of it. Quit wasting precious time/effort on lackluster new content that really has no lasting appeal but only adds lag, bugs & often breaks more than it is ever possibly worth. Keep game pure RvR & uniquely Regnum.

:lighten:

[bois]

Further to this, I will discuss one new thing that will surely test the smaller servers.
That thing is Instances.
I will say that instances were necessary and an excellent idea. However, instances are not the medicine for every ill. I am totally on board with bosses being instances. It is the precursor to Dungeons and instances provide numerous benefits.

But, instances don't work for everything. Case in point are the arenas. It basically killed the communal feature that it once was. I think NGD's concept is to drive sales to duel banners but I wonder if this had the desired outcome. Secondly, TDM and CTF. Mini games in a game. Looks good theoretically. It could be good save one issue.

Instances require large populations to work well and keep all varying game content properly subscribed. Low population servers will suffer due to the availability of only enough playerbase to adequately utilize one aspect of content at a time. The rest go under subscribed and as such die at the stem.

It is the cart before the horse. Content that caters for a "not enough" base and for areas not to the core of the game (RvR) will surely fail even though the idea is good.
In addition, instances of these types, in combination with weak populations, offer fertile ground for all the negative behaviours. Instead of a catalyst for good , it becomes a catalyst for weakening communities and team play.

This is probably the single most damaging approach that NGD has taken so far. Instead of bolstering the community and driving almost all of the available resources towards bolstering RvR, Invasions, persistent world community activities, clans, economics ( yes, economics is a social tool) and the like, emphasis is split 50/50 between above and more self centred and isolated content that drives selfish and anti communal behaviours which gradually de-construct the strong bonds of community.

A recovery is possible.
2014 :
Invasions > thorough review and revamp. More meat on the framework, more reward content. Reduce feedback loops.
More islands like Squid island , level 20 to 35 is really the sweet spot I think.
Clans > this desperately needs some love.
Economy > this needs some serious work. The framework is there but liquidity needs to be tightened, pseudo currencies curtailed, and loosening of drop rates to normalise auction house.

Regards

[-Aniara-]

Feels the same, log in, 4 goats, max goats about 15... then back to less than 10. Cant do anything!

Just wait for Greens to lose there relics so gems reset, then we have the multis coming back in.

Meh!

I predict a merge with RA very soon.

Best regards

/A

[leafdale]

i was reading some of the suggestions & responses above and in the forums.

i think bois is right. you cannot do this set of changes in dribs and drabs. try to speed it up because the ultimate goal is to get to say DAOC format: tiers of RvR arenas culminating in the endgame big RvR arena. Then you need a faster xp rate. Finally, you need big server population to make it all work like DAOC. Don't wait, but implement them quickly or else players could lose interest. ( i dont know the precise steps to get there but others in forums can put a lot of thought in)

Be very very careful about this relic lock device. It is supposed to cope with realm numbers imbalance until server population increases. But it also acts to make the lockdown period much more boring.

(btw may i suggest moving the squid island instance from lvl 1-10 to lvls 20-38? lvl 1-10 is so fast barely anyone tries it seriously. And new players can be informed that lvl 20 is when rvr starts. much faster and nicer)

[Kimahri_Ronso]

Blocking relics even at weekends is really stupid IMHO, on weekdays it's ok because everyone is at school and work but on weekends people are free and can (could*) play more.....

But as it is now, no point to log in during these blocks at all, no one takes a fort at all :warning:.
Boring.

[errei]

this relic locks are just terrible atm considering alsius activity times xD

[leafdale]

But as it is now, no point to log in during these blocks at all, no one takes a fort at all :warning:.
Boring.

one side-effect of locking relics is that players come in, find relics locked, and go try to find some other way to have fun. For example, going to kill the enemy realms bosses or doing dragons. but overall players r more used to fort busting.

[AxisVirtd]

one side-effect of locking relics is that players come in, find relics locked, and go try to find some other way to have fun. For example, going to kill the enemy realms bosses or doing dragons. but overall players r more used to fort busting.

No, man. Players come in, find relics locked, find dragons unavalable, log out. Rest in peace, almost emty Heaven.

[dejan]

Sadly it is true. I log in from time to time to see what is happening... It is boring as hell on Haven. But hey, Regnum guys wanted it like that... Good thing is that Alsius is now powerful, that realm needed some boost anyway. Bad thing is both Syrtis (my realm) and Ignis are almost dead.

NGD should have focused on monitoring the game, ballancing, and similar, instead of developing fancy, useless features...

[bois]

I think the devs meant well. I really do. However, the reintroduction of Dragons and realm block are two killers to the RvR of the game.

The use of the relics to block and unblock access to the dragon was supposed to enhance war. However, with it being only defensive oriented ( you have to keep your relics) it would have dampened war.
Considering Haven barely has enough to do both war and PvE (dragons) properly, one will suffer for the other.
The blocking of relics was supposed to ease imbalances and actually, prevent the obvious which is;

The mechanics of the game, specifically invasions break once population drops below a certain level.

This sadly is becoming more and more of a problem. This is why I am once again of the opinion that "Invasions" is a failed construct and war should now be limited to only the war zone. Gems go out to WZ and are in constant play. Holding each one gives your realm a minor but desirable bonus. Acts of war give you bonuses which are delivered in predictable increments at predictable times and last for every houskeeping round the server conducts. A housekeeping round is a tabulation and assignment or removal of bonuses for that round. This could happen 4 times per day.

In addition, war from every level such as squid island up and to the full war zone contribute to the "realm score" and bonuses as you would have it.

In such a way, imbalances in population can be dealt with at each round of server housekeeping with special bonuses applied to either the proportionately underpopulated realm or non application of some bonuses to excessively populated realms.

Obviously this is no easy task and probably will take a year of development at the least , Should the team choose to go that way.

[Dumberest]

ive always been of the opinion that the problems haven is facing today started a very long time ago,right back to the introduction of warmasters.

1) removing top lvl players from inner realm so they are forced to grind in the war zone only was a mistake.boosting the war zone population in this manner only hindered the growth.the realms for years had that empty feeling no new player wants to see in a game when they start,ngd's answer was to give us back realm chat in the war zone,this too was a mistake as a lot of the war zone players argue and complain and send the wrong message to new players.what happens in the war zone should have stayed there.realm chat and war zone chat should never be mixed.

2) NGD didnt listen to the players enough.Haven(horus AND Raven) have always been totally different to RA server.the fact that south america does not have an over abundance of mmorpg's supplying thier continent have ensured that RA server was a success.getting Horus and Raven to grow in the same manner required "new" strategies and techniques.what worked for one market will not always work for another.

3) the merge with Raven and Horus created new problems as well.multi-realming is so common place now its almost accepted practice among 99% of the playing community.we have all seen how the populations of each realm can vary dramatically in the course of only a few minutes.you can have 4:1 odds needed to invade and 10 minutes after your side has killed the noble you find your realm almost empty and the defending realm has suddenly grown in numbers.

4) the lack of balance updates has been missing for far too long.the game no longer resembles the pre war masters update when you compare balance.

5) blocking of relics is a stupid idea.that or something like it was needed i agree,but if more emphasis had been placed on growth and balance in the years preceeding it we would not have needed this change.

the list goes on,but im not the first to suggest this,these forums are well documented with such suggestions and complaints.

[Cranddor]

ive always been of the opinion that the problems haven is facing today started a very long time ago,right back to the introduction of warmasters.

1) removing top lvl players from inner realm so they are forced to grind in the war zone only was a mistake.boosting the war zone population in this manner only hindered the growth.the realms for years had that empty feeling no new player wants to see in a game when they start,ngd's answer was to give us back realm chat in the war zone,this too was a mistake as a lot of the war zone players argue and complain and send the wrong message to new players.what happens in the war zone should have stayed there.realm chat and war zone chat should never be mixed.

2) NGD didnt listen to the players enough.Haven(horus AND Raven) have always been totally different to RA server.the fact that south america does not have an over abundance of mmorpg's supplying thier continent have ensured that RA server was a success.getting Horus and Raven to grow in the same manner required "new" strategies and techniques.what worked for one market will not always work for another.

3) the merge with Raven and Horus created new problems as well.multi-realming is so common place now its almost accepted practice among 99% of the playing community.we have all seen how the populations of each realm can vary dramatically in the course of only a few minutes.you can have 4:1 odds needed to invade and 10 minutes after your side has killed the noble you find your realm almost empty and the defending realm has suddenly grown in numbers.

4) the lack of balance updates has been missing for far too long.the game no longer resembles the pre war masters update when you compare balance.

5) blocking of relics is a stupid idea.that or something like it was needed i agree,but if more emphasis had been placed on growth and balance in the years preceeding it we would not have needed this change.

the list goes on,but im not the first to suggest this,these forums are well documented with such suggestions and complaints.

+1
I couldnt agree more. Your definition of the problems this game is having, couldnt be better. It is sad to see a game with such a potential dying bit by bit.

[kmdk]

this relic locks are just terrible atm considering alsius activity times xD

Welcome to my premonition .. :"Any limitations of the gameplay kill game" ...I know Adrian disagree thinks as "i told you " but you know is soooo clear when you play the game for years . To be honest i don't even logged in the game after Dragon caves update and even not readed forum ,it was so pointless .
I feel more love if i hear about Super Mario Bross than about Regnum ,it has so anti-players points that makes me from love to hate it . No offense to devs but they know the art of piss off player base .

Personaly i've pass lots of updates and changes of this game ,but i can't pass at all over this Dragon updates ,so many minuses and anti social than make me sick of it …

Regnum it was my first MMO ,i was damn big fan of it …but it losing it charm,it losing bad and it losing fun ,it was until Dragon cave update that was 100% unit social side of the game … never seen ever a game to make so many changes anti-players … wtv after trying second my MMO I'm looking now at CoR as at old rusty piss of junk ,and after reading forum today first time after weeks gave it me the feeling that i was right to leave because nothing can save this game from self-destruction …

Again ,it is not a opinion with bad intention ,but this are the eyes how i see CoR now …

And i'm sorry about shy try to "balance" game now …there is nothing that can balance game now … just dust an fog ..gameplay is the same …gears to win /luck to win … nothing fun ,base nothing to do with skills.
Game is damn exaggerated developed in this direction...

Why i'm still posting here ? ..probably because is last pice of love for the game that grown up from me and doesn't like to see this game so junky .