The 1.0.7 nerfdate [Archive] - Champions of Regnum

Nils_Dacke

03-08-2014, 07:23 AM

Every thread about the 1.10.7 "update" will be closed, because NGD can't take critisism. So if there is anything on your mind about it, you have better hurry.

The only thing that made any sense was the fix of protect ally. It should have been a 360° skill too so the knight doesn't have to face the ally.

If they ever play the game themselves, they never play anything but warlock and hunter. And always with über gear.

Cresto008

03-08-2014, 08:32 AM

warlock
I guess you don't have a lock for yourself and are crying over nothing. lel.
:poster_spam::poster_spam:

Nils_Dacke

03-08-2014, 08:33 AM

I guess you don't have a lock for yourself and are crying over nothing. lel.
:poster_spam::poster_spam:

I play all classes.

Stay mad.

Cresto008

03-08-2014, 08:40 AM

I play all classes.
If so, you wouldn't be placing warlocks alongside with OP-geared hunters in your first post.

Nils_Dacke

03-08-2014, 08:45 AM

If so, you wouldn't be placing warlocks alongside with OP-geared hunters in your first post.

non sequitur

Hollow-Ichigo

03-08-2014, 12:52 PM

I think adapting to any changes NGD make is the best thing to do. If something gets nerfed learn to play without it instead of asking to get it back to normal.

kmdk

03-08-2014, 02:38 PM

I think adapting to any changes NGD make is the best thing to do. If something gets nerfed learn to play without it instead of asking to get it back to normal.

I'm agree wee need to adapt at nerf of NGD because they will not revert back ,and never they did.
The main issue ,with this ,tons of spells just become fashionable.

If you take in count all spells that are useless you will see by any class that on some classes over 50% of spells does nothing,and with each nerf some entire trees become useless ,see nerfing damage once with War Masters ,all very slow weapons become useless,nerfing RA from marksman entire short bows become useless ..etc ... thats the main point ,it's killing diversity of setups .It's killing the fun.

I will not enumerate all spells that need revived ,because there are people that allready did 234242 times ,and NGD is killing even more entire trees with spells with each update.

chilko

03-09-2014, 04:35 PM

Raindance

03-09-2014, 04:55 PM

People say Strategic Position nerf makes the spell completely useless, as if it were removed completely. Fire Arrow still isn't updated from what people say as well.

It seems you really don't know what to do with the marks class, because they have countless of useless spells and the ones that are above useless are ones that give immobilization to the marks (Strategic Position and the WM hit chance buff), not to mention a spell like Focus that gives a malus to the movement speed for a buff that isn't so overpowered.

It also seems that you can't define a strict line between the offensive and defensive roles of marksman and hunter. Hunters can do 1k damage with Cold Blood, while (prior to Strategic Position nerf, when the spell was actually still used) marks are able to tank heavy loads of ranged damage. A spell like Strategic Position doesn't belong to the marksman tree, and if it really does, then it should have a more serious penalty, not something as silly as immobilize, for example -X% range or -X% damage.

Wi3ld

03-09-2014, 05:12 PM

Could you guys please be more specific?

I am looking at the change log again and again and I just see mostly buffs, bug fixes and very few nerfs.

Please, try to be more descriptive so we can channel your opinions into something more constructive.

Best,

- Chilko

Thanks for responding to this thread. I didn't actually think any one would.. or perhaps it would just get closed.
In any case, marks class is in a sorry state, and it has been made worse thanks to the last update. Why are you constantly nerfing marksman? Not many of their unique spells are actually useful compared to Hunter. They don't have any spammable damage spells like ensnaring arrow, so relied on their defence and CCs to stay alive.. their defence has been abolished thanks to the last update, so prepare yourselves, Winter stroke is coming. Can you make Shield Piercing suck less? Or give marks something similar to ensnare without the movement speed decrease. Because relying on normals without strategic position sucks now.

TryHarder

03-09-2014, 05:56 PM

Could you guys please be more specific?

I am looking at the change log again and again and I just see mostly buffs, bug fixes and very few nerfs.

Please, try to be more descriptive so we can channel your opinions into something more constructive.

Best,

- Chilko

Lol? How know what we are talking about? Everyone in the English forum was complaining about what you were going to do to Strategic Position. In the Spanish FB RO group, they were complaining about it (idk about on forum). Guess what happened. You still did it. Now Marks have yet another useless spell, and we all know NGD isn't going to change Strategic Position anytime soon. Marks have the most useless spells out of every class, and you guys just keep adding more and more. None of our WM spells are worth skilling besides the dmg passive. Basically the whole tree of Aiming Mastery is useless. Foresight is now the only spell worth skilling. Hawkz Gaze too, if you can get it, but it is hard to do. Arrow Mastery is the only tree we have left that is Marks-only and has multiple spells worth skilling, but I'm sure that won't last. Look at Recharged Arrows. Nobody asked for the nerf. NGD did it anyway. Everyone is saying the nerf is too much (and it is), and NGD still isn't doing anything about it.

Wi3ld

03-09-2014, 06:59 PM

Even fire arrow is slightly redundant now that knights can dispel freeze. It was broken for so long they just learnt to live without it anyway, or used it to dispel friends as a joke.
It's getting to the point where there will be little to no point to marks in the game towards the future. Newer players are asking questions regarding archers and get scared shitless when they hear about the nerfs to marks, so they either leave the game or pick Hunter.
Can you please tell us why you continue to nerf marksman? Did we hurt you? If so, I'm sorry.

chilko

03-09-2014, 11:49 PM

Wi3ld

03-10-2014, 12:14 AM

Our idea was to make SP a spell that would be mostly useful during fort while not making it so OP for 1vs1 or in open battle.

Unfortunately you've now made it unskillable. Most marks I've spoken to have stopped using it. Even in fort wars it's hard to just stand there and shoot from a distance, and if you do, you'll surely get killed. Removing it is fine, but it should at least be replaced with something useful instead of just another skill that will never get used.
Perhaps it's just because I prefer close-range combat using tricks. Guess I chose the wrong subclass. Time to put marksman into hibernation if this is the way it's going.
I appreciate your response anyway.

trulyem

03-10-2014, 12:48 AM

What needs to be toned down from marksman was cooldown/range of winter frost. Nerfing Strategic position, was a complete mistake. it removes equal balance from the overpowered class...HUNTERS.

Why hunters are overpowered??
1. Immortalized confuse spell
2. Intense 1,200+ damage of Cold Blood
3. Quick get away/run behind a tree CAMOUFLAGE. Because hunters can just provoke a fight and run away

Barbarians
1. Ridiculous/broken attack speed

Warlocks
1. Too many cc's
2. Darkness skill: range, duration, increments

Its true that NGD logs in RA to one hit kill you with overpowered characters (Kailer) and never played this game to test it at all. So its been 7-8 years, still the same. When are you guys gonna reorganize and make this game fun to the community

schachteana

03-10-2014, 02:06 AM

I guess the change for SP was quite a good move, though its cooldown has to be reconsidered. No marksman will skill strategic position now.

The last update was pretty nice, but, I think, the "main problems" like extreme stun times and insane resist rate should be adressed first. (not to forget about the absolute armor calculation and the fact that jewlery dmg gets increased by buffs)
anyway, keep going plskthxbai

TryHarder

03-10-2014, 04:32 AM

Well, besides reading the forums, playing the game and looking at you guys playing from the shadows, we have some internal stats and other tracking tools that show that marks where still OP. Specially considering their long range and some defense capabilities when combining the archer disciplines and some other spells such as Strategic position.

Our idea was to make SP a spell that would be mostly useful during fort while not making it so OP for 1vs1 or in open battle.

Other marks spells where actually improved.

Your logic is flawed because, as has been complained about since the new forts, it is very hard to shoot people from forts when they are on the door, and next to impossible when they are on the side of the fort, which are really the only two places zergs are. Not only this, but, if a marks has to stand still and shoot, then they just get CC chained by locks and get killed pretty fast, especially considering retal doesn't reflect DoTs anymore. When they aren't on the wall, they can't stand still because, as has been complained about a million times already, barbs 2-3 hit everyone that isn't under steel skin or a01.

You made a change that nobody asked for. Marks are not "OP". Boss jeweled marks are. That has also been complained about a million times. RA should only work with SBs, and Maneuver should have a 60 second cd, among other things, imo. There are a huge amount of suggestions for marks that have been community/player approved, and, yet, NGD decides to take it's own route and ruin yet another spell. It's quite obvious this spell wouldn't have been skilled, look at the WM spell for marks that is an immobilize.

Zas_

03-10-2014, 08:10 AM

Why hunters are overpowered??
1. Immortalized confuse spell
2. Intense 1,200+ damage of Cold Blood
3. Quick get away/run behind a tree CAMOUFLAGE. Because hunters can just provoke a fight and run away

Bullshit.

That said, the Strategic Position move isn't a good one (especially together the Retaliation nerf/fix).

Hopeakettu

03-10-2014, 08:41 AM

pieceofmeat

03-10-2014, 09:03 AM

Guys, really...before trying to balance spell/skills, do something about dmg and armour calculations. The impact of boss jewellery on dmg is the real source of many imbalances. I'm not sure if you're ignoring this issue, or just didn't notice it yet despite tons of posts and threads about it.

About SP, I'm not exactly against how it works now, but the cooldown should be adjusted to match this kind of spells.

Oh they are going to ignore it, trust me. Having some (way too many now, imo) OP boss item players running around is good for business, it sells lots of armors, enchantments and weapon upgrades from desperate players that just want a chance to compete.

pieceofmeat

03-10-2014, 09:24 AM

What needs to be toned down from marksman was cooldown/range of winter frost. Nerfing Strategic position, was a complete mistake. it removes equal balance from the overpowered class...HUNTERS.

I dont feel very OP, many mages got solid armors now days, 120-180 normals is what you can expect. Most Archers are often weaker, likely since they have their buffs, armor is secondary to damage upgrades.

Still a buffed Archer and barb is likely to be hit for 45-70 dmg, unless weak build with no passive or weak armor.

I can maybe do around 2k with 4 CB hits on a weak and unbuffed or debuffed player, and that requires me to not move an inch, so them running out of range or behind an object is not unlikely.

Some boss gear players can basically do as much on buffed players as i do on unbuffed, thats pretty fucking sad.

I aint the hunter with the weakest damage either, far from it.

Hollow-Ichigo

03-10-2014, 10:10 AM

Why hunters are overpowered??
1. Immortalized confuse spell
2. Intense 1,200+ damage of Cold Blood
3. Quick get away/run behind a tree CAMOUFLAGE. Because hunters can just provoke a fight and run away

lol you know nothing about hunters so don't even talk about them.

Lebeau

03-10-2014, 10:27 AM

Not on topic, but like I've said b4, I'd like to see hunter damage more in line with everyone else's. Currently, hunters only get one point of extra damage per attribute point, barbs get 2 per & all others get 1.5 per. ALL should get 1.5 per imho.

(/me already can hear the barbs' fuming snorts & whines).:viking:

Recoil

03-10-2014, 10:38 AM

Lebeau

03-10-2014, 10:46 AM

And mages get 0 per since damage is constant.Oh, ok. Was this always the case, Recoil, or did NGD take mages' attribute damage bonus to normal attacks away as part of the INfamous sm-nerf b4 I ever starting playing?

P.S.: sorry, off-topic again. :ohill:

Rudepravda

03-10-2014, 01:46 PM

Our idea was to make SP a spell that would be mostly useful during fort while not making it so OP for 1vs1 or in open battle.

It was a really good idea in my opinion, but with this side effect it is a useless spell also in fort wars. There are problem with positioning still unsolved ("you are not facing your enemy"). So would be better to correct the spell inseting a penalization with like 25 movement speed that could help to keep the spell useful for fort wars, and make it less usable in openfield battle.

trulyem

03-10-2014, 03:40 PM

lol you know nothing about hunters so don't even talk about them.

Sure, its like fulminating and 2 hit kill hunter. Haha thats balance too :) I dont need credentials, I have nothing to prove to you. If thats how balance is, 2 hit kills, running away, its not a problem to me either.

Raindance

03-10-2014, 04:37 PM

Bullshit.

That said, the Strategic Position move isn't a good one (especially together the Retaliation nerf/fix).

lol you know nothing about hunters so don't even talk about them.

So the wisdoms of amulet hunters hath spoken.

And I'm going to repeat what I already posted. There is hardly any line between the defensive and offensive roles of hunters and marksman, this, alongside with amulets/rings, is a main factor why these two classes are so fucked up and cause so much butthurt in discussions.

kmdk

03-10-2014, 05:02 PM

Well, besides reading the forums, playing the game and looking at you guys playing from the shadows, we have some internal stats and other tracking tools that show that marks where still OP. Specially considering their long range and some defense capabilities when combining the archer disciplines and some other spells such as Strategic position.

Our idea was to make SP a spell that would be mostly useful during fort while not making it so OP for 1vs1 or in open battle.

Other marks spells where actually improved.

OP in 1VS1 ? O.o ..... LMAO ....
Try a barb 3k SC ,try a hunter with camo+cold blood ,try try try ,i have no idea how that "internals" works....and defense is too high ?...wtf ?,is the same as hunter have now .... what means defense for ya ?... lol ...
Wee don't talk about same game seems ...

And i'm wondering if "your internal tools" ,take in count "boss gears" or not ....at least on Haven like 70% of people that still play marksman are bossgeard people ...

Useless trees from marksman and spells.
-short bows :complete useless because mana and HP drain is so fast than risk to kill yourself.
-long bows :useless spells -eagle's eye,obfuscate,projectile rain,point shot
-tricks :sticky touch,finesse,retaliation,ambush ...to short range for a non-camoed class,
-evasion:dodge,mobility(kind of joke by NGD TM ,even speed items are better),cat reflexes,spell elude,escapist,son of the wind(other joke ,any kind of know go true )
Marksman speciality:
-arrow master :RA (kind of joke of spell..suicide to make more damage than a hunter), serpent bite,ignus scorch,needle blast,arcana strike,fire rain vs good winter stroken ,burst of wind,ethereal arrow,lightning arrow 50% useless ..
-aiming mastery :dead eye ,focus,cyclopse curse ,lethal strike (makes too low damage for normal marksman and too much for boss geard/long cd /tons of mana cost/% chance to deal dmg ),strategic position ,trained eye,seeking strike ,80% useless ...

And not a marksman asked to play long range ,but NGD forced us to do ,because of nerf on short bows ,escapist ,mobility ,etc ...

Indoril

03-10-2014, 06:36 PM

I greatly welcome most... well, some of the changes made by this update.

-Mind squash: CD increased a bit too much. This is the skill that makes up for the lower damage (vs other barbs mainly) of blunt barbs.
-Wind Wall: 5% less suck. Still sub-par. CD too high, instant cast wouldn't hurt either. Very visible even in a zerg, easy to just ignore the caster for 30 seconds.
-Protect Ally: 50% increase... of almost nothing = still almost nothing. 150hp is ~4% of my hp. Come on.
-Magic Barrier: Much needed. Those 400 HP equal just about 8% more of total hit points, but they're still significant due to how barrier works. Conjus might benefit a bit too much from this.
-Strategic position: I wont bother to be the ~50th person to elaborate why changes to heavily gear-dependant classes are problematic.

Jack_Dragonkiller

03-11-2014, 11:37 AM

SP should only be activitable on forts and the area around them, but then it shouldn't get deactivated by moving. I think that would be a good compromise.
But some changes were necessary for a long time.

Cresto008

03-11-2014, 03:22 PM

And not a marksman asked to play long range ,but NGD forced us to do ,because of nerf on short bows ,escapist ,mobility ,etc ...
RA is very useful, one has to know when and how to use it. I use it on my lvl 52 marks and never died because of its usage.
And marksman SHOULD play long range. You're not a knight with bow to play at range 10. Skill foresight and parabolic both at 5 and use the variety of range 0 spells to sabotage and eventually cripple and kill your enemies from 50 range.

But yeah, short bows are required to tackle ganking hunters and the nerf on SP is bad as already said by many, it just made the entire arrow mastery tree almost useless...

kmdk

03-11-2014, 03:48 PM

RA is very useful, one has to know when and how to use it.I use it on my lvl 52 marks and never died because of its usage.

Try to use it with short bows ....in fact this is the main reason that short bows are dead for marksman because they have no other damage amplifier as hunters does(cold blood).

And marksman SHOULD play long range. You're not a knight with bow to play at range 10. Skill foresight and parabolic both at 5 and use the variety of range 0 spells to sabotage and eventually cripple and kill your enemies from 50 range.

And if it's that what marksman shall be ,i wonder why wee still complain about nerfs.This give me the feeling that wee are units and NGD play with us Might of Magic.
And yes that's my setup,is there other way to skill ? :D all forced to skill in same way ,there is no variety of setups ,there is not dynamic of gamplay.

If you look back there was tons of combinations ,long bows /short bows ,defensive setup ,offensive setup ,now wee are clones ,no fun ,nothing.

But whatever ,wee bait the tail ,that's the gameplay ,even someone wants or not .

Cresto008

03-11-2014, 03:56 PM

This give me the feeling that wee are units and NGD play with us Might of Magic.Hahahahahaha, true story, my brother. I was just pulling your leg nothing more :harhar: :hat:

Nils_Dacke

03-29-2014, 07:31 AM

Our idea was to make SP a spell that would be mostly useful during fort while not making it so OP for 1vs1 or in open battle.

IMHO 1vs1 should never be a benchmark, other that if any single subclass is found to successfully roam around all alone, there is something wrong with it.

The benchmark should be comparing teams of six, where the objective would be to have a team of six consisting of one of each subclass typically beating every other constellation of six players. Then every subclass has a tactical purpose.

Other marks spells where actually improved.
Like what? The whole aiming-tree seems useless now.

Nils_Dacke

03-29-2014, 07:50 AM

In any case, marks class is in a sorry state, and it has been made worse thanks to the last update.

I have noticed how marksmen have simply vanished from Ra and Haven now.

Personally, I mostly play knight now. I really don't see what the tactical role would be of marksmen atm. No point in attacking mages with dot's or debuffs as they simply debuff themselves once every 10th second. No point in attacking warriors who has too high const/hp to deal with for an archer. (which is the way it should be imho) So it leaves marksmen to concentrate on enemy marksmen, which now are few and far between. I could revert to high normal/high critical/long range, where I don't need SP and don't rely on dot's but that is a rather boring gameplay.

So I play knight, where I can have a purpose and make a difference.