Anatomy of Resists

[Loque]

re·sist
verb \ri-ˈzist\

: to fight against (something) : to try to stop or prevent (something)
: to remain strong against the force or effect of (something) : to not be affected or harmed by (something)
: to prevent yourself from doing something that you want to do

All has been said and done many times and all are aware of them including NGD. And yes hopefully you are going to think about them in your flight plan for Regnum.

But my question is this. Why do we need resists in the game at all? Hypothetically let's say, there are no such things as resists in the game except absolute ones like provided by SOTW, what happens then? Are there any major issues having such a system in place? Every spell works depending on the timing, the setup and the skill of the player. Sure, we all have loved or hated them depending on the situation and how it suits us, most of us are quilty of thanking a few resists here and there when they pertain to our selfish needs and loath them when we are on the receiving end.

Going by the reasoning they are in the game for a bit of luck to be in place to give players a chance or chances, but why do we need luck at all? We already deal with our luck issues with the spells having % chance on them, why is this additional layer of resists needed at all? And when this system massively affects group fights and such it's even more disappointing. Last night, when we were fighting a realm totally outnumbered and getting farmed near our cs, 90% of everything we threw at them were "resists". I don't need to say how disappointing this becomes. And over time, it builds into frustration and lack of interest in the game.

And today, this happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLyHp3zGzZY

I have literally no words to describe. Something needs to be done about this NGD and it's not just about RNG, you will cross that bridge when you come to it in your plan, fine. But I would suggest to look at the resists' system on a global level and (re)think the whole system itself whether if it's even needed in the game. Regnum is a fun game with a lot of diminishing factors which when curbed can further enhance it's value and make it more enjoyable.

Cheers.

[schachteana]

standard situation.
it's always just like that.
being a conjurer, I stopped using will domain for it gets resisted about 50% of the time.

what I don't understand about this whoe thing: why does an issue, which is obviously so extremely radical, has to get its very own update? why doesn't ngd fix this first and return to it with another update later on? I don't get it. It's also not my business, however.

Anyway: in your video, we can see some ~lvl40 barbarian. Players below lvl 60 don't have anything to say in the warzone anyway. Complete damage absorbation by everyones armor and resists are to blame. If you were playing a hunter in that very video, your enemy would not only have resisted everything, you also would have dealt 5 dmg altogether.

[Shwish]

I honestly believe that NGD would have fixed the problem of excessive resists if they knew how.

[pieceofmeat]

Change log 15/06/29.
Main stat of all classes will now effect spell focus with 0.01 percent more.

Enjoy!

[Anunnaki]

Hate random resist :mad:
When u are full buffs and someone resist ur cross :fingers:

[Awrath]

The reason for resists having resists/evades are valid. It stops ridiculous chains that no one can escape. If you do away with resists then you also need to consider drastically reducing the duration of most CCs, while keeping the CD the same.

Besides this, resists also allow for some adaptive game play, something unexpected which allows you to react accordingly (or fail to react accordingly).

I do agree though resist rate has increased so much, and the solution is only one the RNG. Resists/evades/blocks/drops are all tied into this crappy RNG and until NGD decide to do something about it, we are stuck with it. There is no adapting to 5/6 spells being resisted in a 1v1 fight, yes, that happened.

[MDpro]

The reason for resists having resists/evades are valid. It stops ridiculous chains that no one can escape. If you do away with resists then you also need to consider drastically reducing the duration of most CCs, while keeping the CD the same.

Besides this, resists also allow for some adaptive game play, something unexpected which allows you to react accordingly (or fail to react accordingly).

I do agree though resist rate has increased so much, and the solution is only one the RNG. Resists/evades/blocks/drops are all tied into this crappy RNG and until NGD decide to do something about it, we are stuck with it. There is no adapting to 5/6 spells being resisted in a 1v1 fight, yes, that happened.
100% agree. There should be resists/evades/blocks, just not at the rate that we're seeing them atm.

And the knight block rate.... :eek24: :dumbofme:

Even mobs resist at a ridiculous rate, and grinding takes long enough even if there were no resists at all.

[Tigerious]

I do beleive in what said Awrath but still bullshit when more than one resist, this shouldnt be allowed, we've seen very much time with realm mates and heatnick that sometimes it is just non sense when the enemy resist 2 ambush and 2 ds from two or more different persons, all of this because of some dark side of resist formula... (some people resist a lot more than other ones..?)
Not to mention that is the same for the stupid evades on last hit. So many times enemy ran away with like 50-100 hp...

[halvdan]

I do agree with Awrath. There are two sides of the coin.
One is that knocks and stuns are resisted way more than other spells. I think it is worse since level cap was raised to 60, because everyone got more constitution, which has some impact on knock/stun resists.

The other thing is you guys do not know what you want.
I do beleive in what said Awrath but still bullshit when more than one resist...
Asking for things like "its bullshit when more than one resist" is opposite to asking for fix rng. RNG means "random number generator" and not "only one resist generator". Under this I mean that any rng should do sometimes things like 4 resists in a row. Because that's probability - imagine 100 coin flips, you can't demand there won't exist chain of four heads in a row - this is how probability works.

And the last thing funny on this thread is, I can see many barbarians crying here, but not many locks. Why? Aren't resists much bigger issue for warlocks and such classes who do not have such glorious dps like barbs even without direct spells?

[Ludwig Von Mises]

I believe they need to bring the resists down a notch. My faint and kick gets rested so many times in a row i've lost count. :drinks:

[Loque]

People who just post for the sake of posting without actually heeding to the topic should stop posting here. Nobody is crying here. The video was ample proof of how a level 60 got defeated by a level 47 due to resists and the overall resist ratio in that fight and the game in itself.

The thread is about resists, not any class resisting more or less, it is just resists.

[MedicAlert]

People who just post for the sake of posting without actually heeding to the topic should stop posting here. Nobody is crying here. The video was ample proof of how a level 60 got defeated by a level 47 due to resists and the overall resist ratio in that fight and the game in itself.

The thread is about resists, not any class resisting more or less, it is just resists.

It's RA.
Of course, expect more resists because it's adjusted accordingly with respect to the server population.
In short, the more the people = the more the resists
And it's nothing new anyway.
Best, :horsey:

[Loque]

The reason for resists having resists/evades are valid. It stops ridiculous chains that no one can escape. If you do away with resists then you also need to consider drastically reducing the duration of most CCs, while keeping the CD the same.

Besides this, resists also allow for some adaptive game play, something unexpected which allows you to react accordingly (or fail to react accordingly).

I do agree though resist rate has increased so much, and the solution is only one the RNG. Resists/evades/blocks/drops are all tied into this crappy RNG and until NGD decide to do something about it, we are stuck with it. There is no adapting to 5/6 spells being resisted in a 1v1 fight, yes, that happened.
I realistically don't believe that. Because, a spell chain is redundant in itself with a counter spell chain inducing counter measures, of course this is not true in most cases when you take the instance of a melee vs range due to how the classes are designed and the disparity between them which is entirely another balance topic. Take the case examples of those PvP events wherein you fight similar classes and you get by without requiring an outside modifier like a resist.

And, knowing and balancing your game on how to counter a chain in itself isn't it's own example of adaptive gameplay? Why is the requirement in need to place an outside factor like a resist which by itself doesn't hold any water but is counter-productive to the entire gameplay?

I'm still not convinced resists are actually needed.

[Loque]

It's RA.
Of course, expect more resists because it's adjusted accordingly with respect to the server population.
In short, the more the people = the more the resists
And it's nothing new anyway.
Best, :horsey:
Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but do you have any specific examples or proof for this?

[Sentan]

And I still do not understand why some time ago they added legendary items with resistance to CC. They knew perfectly well that there is a problem with RNG. Can someone explain to it? :mad:

--

Remove random resists. Let's stay with absolute resist spells. Yeah... They will need to balance it a little bit.....but hey...after so many years it should already be done.

[halvdan]

The video was ample proof of how a level 60 got defeated by a level 47 due to resists and the overall resist ratio in that fight and the game in itself.


Yes, and i am writing that it is more proof on that RNG is working properly. Because sometimes such things should happen. If you make statistics of like 20 fights like these in vid, and your lvl 47 wins 15 of those 20 , then is something wrong. Untill then your proof is nothing.

Understand, everyone can post vids with some game balance outliers - but if they won't show the times when everything worked properly, it's of no information value. That means you might be right(and maybe you even are) with RNG working not properly or whatever, but your proof isn't proof.

[MxCx]

Yes, and i am writing that it is more proof on that RNG is working properly. Because sometimes such things should happen. If you make statistics of like 20 fights like these in vid, and your lvl 47 wins 15 of those 20 , then is something wrong. Untill then your proof is nothing.

Understand, everyone can post vids with some game balance outliers - but if they won't show the times when everything worked properly, it's of no information value. That means you might be right(and maybe you even are) with RNG working not properly or whatever, but your proof isn't proof.

Halvdan, there is something empirically wrong when so many players report the same thing over and over. Resist on will domain right now is laughable...there's a thread on it for itself at the moment and sathius and wield reported having four resists in a row (along with others). I personally saw at least 3 in a fight against a warlock (no passive resist knock skill) just a couple nights ago (recorded as well). I've seen similar against other char types too, but knights are horrible to try to CC now since they all run around with godlike resist rate along with their 1k+ crits.

Feint always seemed to me to work less than kick while playing knight. Might be speculation, personal experience, or the fact DI blocks you from attempting to use it but either way...knock resists are horrible. This can be especially frustrating while playing barb. Mine was still a little lower level, but kick is the one instant knock, and with low mana on barb having resists like this if you actually reach your target can be life and death.

I only mentioned a couple spells, but resists overall have been horrendous. Non-damaging spells especially more so.

[Kimahri_Ronso]

The reason for resists having resists/evades are valid. It stops ridiculous chains that no one can escape.

No one can escape... All that done by using nothing to do so, not one spell or skill is being used to avoid those spells, nothing is being done, so it depends on the "luck" (resist rates are still unknown to us poor users, so I'll call it just simply luck) and luck alone. This is IMHO unacceptable, someone is building up a chain in her mind how to kill that enemy she's facing and all is ruined just because the very one is "resisting" a spell?! luel. Just Luel.

Random resists should have been removed already, but completely. If you wanna resist a spell use a skill to do so. Be it SOTW, UM, or the corresponding introduced mage edition (tho conjus have Mind Blank but locks have NOTHING).

If you do away with resists then you also need to consider drastically reducing the duration of most CCs, while keeping the CD the same.

Or just introduce new spells that can work in certain situations to avoid being hit by a spell and do that to ALL SUBCLASSES. Give them all spell(s) to defend themselves against spells and remove random resists. Please, do so. No matter soon or very soon, just do so :D

And the last thing funny on this thread is, I can see many barbarians crying here, but not many locks. Why? Aren't resists much bigger issue for warlocks and such classes who do not have such glorious dps like barbs even without direct spells?

Not many plays lock already, that's why.
Mage is the outdated class. Many threads on the forum, mage is the only class that has no benefit of their INT stat, getting more mana yeah, but damage-wise they get nothing, a lvl 37 mage (lock) does the same damage as a lv 60 warlock....Not to mention that once the group has another mage with dispel the DOTS of the warlock are even more useless.:hat:

[pieceofmeat]

[WARNING: CONSPIRACY THEORY]

If you can even call it RNG in this case, NGD practically said that they use the resist/evades to buff poor connection and old systems a bit or rather they said resists was needed to balance this out.
If it was a coin flip then it would obviously have the opposite effect for this category of players. So what is it exactly that NGD do to make resists fix this little issue above?

It seem fairly obvious to me that many players out there is a lot more “lucky” then others. Who are they? Is it me? Am I really that stupid?
No it cant be, I know some player that are extremely "lucky" and other that are not.
One good example is Hepha and Zepharoth (excuse my spelling), Hepha is unlikely to be European, maybe American judgeing by the times he played. Why dosnt he come a cross as half as lucky as Zepharoth? I don't get it, the difference between both these players "luck" was to me staggering and has been so for years. Why is that? Where is Zepharoth from, China?

There must be lots of nasty stuff in the (R)NG code, making it go haywire at times, likely giving some players benefits, making players notice increased resist rates after updates when new resources being downloaded or simply when the server load is high etc.

I remember Tigerious once posted that Ignis resisted more than others, I had the same feel to be perfectly honest. They had a player base overrepresented by Americans and the server is in Sweden, Alsius had fair amount of Europeans as I recall.
Many forum users had good laugh at his claims, but to be honest, it fit pretty well with my own theory of how the system is used by NGD.

Something is wrong with the resist system, likely more than one issues as well and I really like to know what it is.
Is it series of unfortunate coincidences and bad programing or Is NGD using an extremely unorthodox resist system to help their own South American playerbase cope with low ping Europeans and our brand new computers?

We already know their funny way of handling the exchange rates, they are extremely unfair to Europeans, especially from some countries that havnt had same economical growth as most countries western Europe and Scandinavia.

I really need to try take some statistics from me playing, I can imagine the “feel” I get is based on a simple I got 1 resist myself and received 5 form others, not really taking the amount of spells dealt and received into account.
Still I can not for my life see how this would make up for even half of it.

Now thinking about it. I had feeling that someone nerfed me on my hunter, I seriously had a slight suspicion of gamesamba GCs for a little bit knowing of course it was ridicules, but since they were known for meddling in RvR and what not it seemed like a possibility.
Now im thinking, Raven... they are mostly Americans and im from Sweden.

Yes, Im insane! :drinks:

[Takeyo]

It is suggested that resits should be removed from the game entirely. However, resists fulfill an indispensable function in PvP combat. The problem is that they fulfill this function extremely poorly, frequently causing frustrating imbalances which turn players away.

Resists do seem to cause more problems than they solve. Indeed, they are a universal mechanic of the game which intrinsically causes frustration by its very existence. Even if there were no other problems with resists, this issue alone would be sufficient justification for their removal for obvious reasons. The fact that resists are also necessary to the balance of the game, despite their basic imbalances, is a complication, but not an insurmountable one. If resists are removed, as they should be, they must be immediately replaced by another more balanced evasive mechanic such as a class-based evasive action (with a balanced execution time and cooldown of course, an action is not a spell or a skill).

[kowocki]

This problem is as old as....

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wrhdwsvebobc4sn/AAA8zbaTMZzPiVbnpzJO3MIea/Regnum_CBA?dl=0#/

(check page 198)

[oim]

Remove resist. :beerchug:

[mind-trick]

Nah, CCs should be resistable, especially knocks, but other spells should not be. Otherwise cc chains will be guaranteed KO. after 1 roar/distracting shot you are dead. but evades must be gone.

[ShadowForce]

I am in agreement with those that believe resisting a spell should only be possible when casting some kind resistance spell like SOTW, UM, Mind Blank etc.

This ridiculous random resist system has gone on far too long and has definately drove away paying players/customers. I don't believe those who are defending resists here have actually thought about what it is they are proposing.

NGD have spent a lot of time over the past few updates and probably since the start of RO balancing classes, and we can all be thankful for that whether we agreed with the changes or not. For the most part, these balance changes have gone quite well in my opinion with the exception of a couple of the warlock nerfs.

Now, why on earth would you spend time balancing classes to the best of your ability and then negate all the work you have done balancing classes by adding a high dose of luck (by means of random resists); it is completely ridiculous and it ruins the entire game. Every time it is mentioned it seems to fall on deaf ears. I also apologise but I do not believe for one second that NGD do not know how to remove it.

For me a good way to imagine things is by a simple balanced equation:

2X = 4Y

X = 6 and Y = 3

Both sides of the equation = 12.

Now lets add a random factor to the equation and say that X and Y now represent a random number between 1 and 99.

X = (1 ~ 99) and Y = (1 ~ 99)

The equation becomes unbalanced in a high percentage of it's resolutions.

My suggestion is to remove random resists completely and as mentioned; provide each class that doesn't already have one with a balanced (ha-ha) spell they can cast to resist spells cast on them for a certain time period of time. How on earth can people use judgement, skill and timing when something in the background may or may not allow them to do so.

Imagine if Ronnie O'Sullivan was on his way to making a 147 break in snooker, and during one of his shots the pocket he was potting the ball in randomly moves to another position.

Imagine if Messi has a free-kick just outside the box, he takes a few steps back, makes the shot and it is destined for the top left corner. Hang on a minute, what's this? The goal has just moved randomly 50 yards to the right.

You are playing a well known shoot 'em up game online. You take aim at the enemy and make a shot directly for the head! Suddenly, your enemy dissapears and re-appears 30 metres to the side.

Random factor does not belong in any game

[Loque]

Recorded in a period of one hour last night, not one single fight where the resist(s) didn't decide the outcome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L3Os2T0Ir4

It's preposterous how intrinsically absurd the system is.

[pieceofmeat]

Nah, CCs should be resistable, especially knocks, but other spells should not be. Otherwise cc chains will be guaranteed KO. after 1 roar/distracting shot you are dead. but evades must be gone.

Because resist chains are better than CC chains?

I dont really get when and why resist are needed? None can or should be able to rely on them anyway, so what if you die to CC chain a bit more often than you already do?

I and im sure most would prefer pvp without resists, so that really cant be it.

And in a RvR you got buffs, debuffs and CC etc to protect yourself. Buffs, dispels and heals, support form allies with their CCs and debuffs etc.
Not to mention obstacles and range to avoid getting in to trouble in the first place.
Why would you need resist to cope in an rvr setting?

It aslo sound like you can rely on resist to break CC chains for you.
I know for sure i cant and i dont think i want or need that ability either.

If you get a resist in a pvp, it just embarrassing, the fight is ruined i may have won but didnt deserve it.
In rvr it can happen but for me its far to rare to have any significant impact on my game play.

What happen when someone CC chain my buddy and I cant do nothing about it because my CC gets resisted?
Resist will benefit some classes more than other thats for sure, so some adjustment could be needed if removed. But mostly resist helps making it easier for zergs and gankers, they can afford to get resists, but poor guy trying to survive a gank cant. As if ganking and safety in numbers isn’t enough of an advantage already.

This game could be so much more fun without or with a very low resist rate.

[ShadowForce]

There's nothing wrong with the RNG / Resist system.

http://i.imgur.com/kWmz3Vg.jpg

[Robasiewicz]

There's nothing wrong with the RNG / Resist system.

http://i.imgur.com/kWmz3Vg.jpg

look on the bright side: you didn't resist arcane devotion

[Masterkick]

I strongly disagree with the idea of not having any kind of resists at all without an active resistance spell. Resists have to be there, they are key to a more dynamic gameplay. Any good player should be able to cope with some resists.

That being said, the resists system is not working. There shouldn't be more than one resisted spell per fight, per side.

It is also true that whatever controls the resists is buried deep inside this game, ie.: one single player atacks a mob. There you have all this factors that rely, some more than others, on luck:

Evasion
Damage output (it isn't a fixed number).
Resists (of course)
Critical Hits
Spells with chance or random damage (this is very important, lots of spells work with the RNG).
Drops of the mob.


And I might be forgetting some factors. What I mean to say is that it is REALLY hard to fix this, because the RNG is a system LOTS of other systems intertwine with. So you have to be very careful not to break everything. I mean, just try and change the first chapter of a novel and still have it make sense with the rest of it. It's not an easy task.

But hey! They say they would fix it, so hopes up! :thumb: