Relic System: New Vs Old

[MDpro]

Just wondering what all your thoughts are on the new relic/invasion system, comparing it to the old one.

Some positive things from my own standpoint:
1. Gives defending realms a chance because attacking realm has to split for multiple fort captures.

2. Gate vulnerability timer is based on how many relics a realm successfully places in wall power sources.

3. Fort fights that are often less focused on invading, and instead just fighting. (huge + for me personally)

4. Warmaster coin bonus for preventing invasions against your realm.

5. Your realm can stop or slow an invasion attempt between the other 2 realms by capping their forts, which prevents invasions sometimes and keeps things focused on war zone fighting. Which also keeps things interesting.

6. Getting more than one gem during an invasion attempt is harder due to shortened length of invasion time.

(Edit) 7. No more relic mounting.

(If I missed more positive things, please post your thoughts)


Negatives:
1. Warmaster coin award for fighting off invasions can be abused by higher populated realms. If they know they have enough to fight off an invasion attempt, they can just not show up at their forts and let the enemy try and invade, for the purpose of obtaining warmaster coins. Pretty much rewarding them for not showing up at their forts.

2. Realms that have their forts attacked don't even have to try and fight anymore... They can just cap the forts of the realm that is attacking them to make them flea, so that they can take their fort(s) back. This has been a constant trend lately.

3. Since we don't need to gather all 3 relics anymore, we don't need to go through all 3 forts. This is leading to seeing the same forts over and over again, which can make players lose interest due to seeing the same repetitive things. I personally miss the crazy castle fights for that last relic, whether it be trying to invade or not get invaded. Now you can cap an enemy castle (or any fort), and possibly just stand around waiting while the enemies are trying to take back a different fort, which gets boring.

4. Gate re-capping was much funner than running to the gem zerg and getting killed over and over again. Gate re-capping had use for way more strategy than the current invasion system. Now it's more about numbers during invasions (and by invasions, I don't mean fort/relic capturing too. Just invasions).

(If I missed more negative things, please post your thoughts)


I personally am unsure which battle system I like better, but leaning more toward the old system since each fort battle was more meaningful and strategic then. Also getting invaded was funner even with few on when you can have a chance of re-capping gate. But at the same time, I do love how there has been fort fights less focused on invading, and more about just having fun.

I am interested in knowing how you all feel about the war system though. For basic or unsure answers, please just vote on the poll. If you want to add onto anything I wrote as far as positives or negatives about the war system, then please share your thoughts. :smile:

[Loque]

Personally I like the new system more. I like how dynamic it is and especially the quick fire rounds. You take one relic, you get 10 mins, take two get more and things like that. I really don't want to do that old thing where you call your grandma, niece, aunt, uncle, plumber, accountant and that hobo you always wanted to spare some change for but never did, for one hour of gate camping while you tell stories you think people would care for.

Gate.. well, I'm still unsure about this, as I've seen it from both sides and especially on Ra in the wars I participated, the action is more on the outside than inner realm. i.e., a realm can pick gems off pedestals but once they are secure in gate, taking them home safely is an entirely different matter and that's where lot of wars happen and it's quite fun.

Old relic style.. mounting.. zerging.. ugh I'll stop here.

My vote is the current invasion system.

[MDpro]

I really don't want to do that old thing where you call your grandma, niece, aunt, uncle, plumber, accountant and that hobo you always wanted to spare some change for but never did, for one hour of gate camping while you tell stories you think people would care for.
:clapclap: :thumb_up:Yeah, I don't think many of us are sad to see hour long invasions gone. I used to see so many people log off after invasions were over when it was an hour long, whether we were attacking or defending. Just standing there with the gate wide open wondering "Are they coming back? Let's just stand here and find out"

Gate.. well, I'm still unsure about this, as I've seen it from both sides and especially on Ra in the wars I participated, the action is more on the outside than inner realm. i.e., a realm can pick gems off pedestals but once they are secure in gate, taking them home safely is an entirely different matter and that's where lot of wars happen and it's quite fun.

I know what you mean, I too have helped fight off invasions in Ra. And like you said, most of the fight happens outside gate there. It kinda seems like this new war system is better suited for a more populated server (Ra) in some ways though.


Thanks for reminding me about relic mounting, I'll edit that in my first post.

[oim]

Invasions are boring, because there is no cool stuff to achieve.

5000 Coins ... I don't care, they are useless
Dragons ... we have our own, and there are no weapons, just lvl 55 unuseable gear
EP Bonus ... nice to have ... but not awesome
Drop Gem ... HAHAHA! ... drop chance = zero, boosted still zero ... farming in this game = bad idea, cause too low mob spawn and only crap dropping 70% staffs

Sorry, but invasions without goals is boring.

[Takeyo]

I just always thought it would be cooler if, instead of power sources in the walls (where did that come from?!), they had some kind of special altars ranged about the large area in front of the realm gate. They could be highly defensible, and contain the invasion relic-sockets within. There would be one altar thing for each relic, and they would be placed at a distance from each other as they are now, but not so far apart, and out in front of the gate instead of against the wall. When the relic was placed inside, it could channel some kind of magic looking effect through the air and into the gate, showing that it was disabling the wards on the gate.

I do think it would be nice if castle attacks were required somehow... perhaps... that's a neat idea: the gate could stand to be stronger, so how about if it were really, really hard to break... unless you had a dragon helping you destroy it, and only the castle-relic's invasion altar can summon the dragon!
The dragon wouldn't go around taking up massive amounts of space, and preventing defenders from targeting the attackers. Instead, it would land at a slight distance from the gate, and shoot fireballs, or frostbolts, or lightningbolts at the gate. It could either be untargetable, or it could only be targetable by clicking on its head. That would depend largely on weather it was to be killable or not ;)

[MDpro]

5000 Coins ... I don't care, they are useless

It's 12,500 WMC for the wish now.

[halvdan]

I definitely prefer new invasion system.
The old one was too static. If your realm had zerg, only thing needed to do was to camp forts and deliver relics one by one, which took alot time and was all the time same. Exactly what Irsh wrote.

Another advantage of this system is that it reduces the impact of different positions of castles, now the imp save location isn't such pain in ass as before, because no need of passing relic alongside it. Not to mention it's possible to invade without capturing castle.

Also, it's easier for lesser populated realms to avoid invasion, because the attacking realm has to split their forces for 2 forts, which gives the defending realm good chance to break invasion attempts.

Only interesting, how some guys complained about new invasion system making invading easier for zerg realms. But well, now from votes in poll looks like most people are satisfyied with new invasion system. People shouldn't judge new things too fast.
After all, imbalances were never caused by new invasion system or something, but by realm population imbalances.
Only thing I'm really not sure with, is impossibility to recap gate.

Anyway

4. Warmaster coin bonus for preventing invasions against your realm.
....
1. Warmaster coin award for fighting off invasions can be abused by higher populated realms. If they know they have enough to fight off an invasion attempt, they can just not show up at their forts and let the enemy try and invade, for the purpose of obtaining warmaster coins. Pretty much rewarding them for not showing up at their forts.

I think wmc rewards for defending never worked, and still don't work.

The bottom line, anyway, huge + from me. Thanks Ngd.

[Takeyo]

Of course, the new system is much more balanced than the old system. I greatly prefer the new system because it's much easier to defend your realm. My first post was just ideas that I had to make the new system look cooler, or to add further diversity to it. New system all the way for me. As far as I can tell, people just complain about the system when they lose. If they don't win, they blame it on the system. In reality, there are a lot of other factors besides the bare system that affect the outcome more. The new system is fair to both realms. It is easier to defend your realm than to invade another realm, and that is as it should be.

[schachteana]

the new one is better, of course,
specially because adjustments to realm balance can be done easier. but I thought NGD wanted to acutally MAKE adjustments... we have been playing the same update for months now :confused:

[MDpro]

I think wmc rewards for defending never worked, and still don't work.
That's what I thought, but someone in the realm that wasn't aware of the new changes said he got WMC after Alsius tried invading us recently. Maybe we are supposed to get the WMC, but our characters resist them. :superpusso:


Hm, I see most people prefer the new system, and for good reasons. I just wish that when you're going after multiple forts, one group didn't have to just stand around forever. Mostly I miss the great fights at Imperia after Alsius took Meni relic lol. I also miss having to go through all 3 forts, it kept the scenery changing and was less repetitive. The new system surely makes sense, especially because relics being stored did cause some problems at times. But it also was a great fight for every relic, unless it was a zerg against very few.


Edit- I guess another good thing about the new sytem is that there is no more farming gate for an hour after invasion ends, or knocking down both doors for all to come and go as they please after invasion is over as well. This was annoying.

[Loque]

The WMC for defending works. Though it can be abused by greater realms having more defenders than attackers, if I should say how. But 500 WMC is not a big deal anyhow, so I'll let the cat out of the bag if you didn't know this.

To obtain WMC, you need to let the attackers break your gate but prevent them from capturing the flag. If the game reads your gate missing upon closing times of invasion it will consider it a successful defense and will grant you WMC once the gate goes safe. But there is always a risk of losing control and if the flag is lost, it's game over, no WMC.

Atleast this is how it was on Amun when we tested. Not sure if anything changed.

[oim]

Make the door unable to capture.

Place more guards.

Make the inner door respawning. Place guards inside.

500 coins for defending the noble.




Zerg will always rule. You can't balance zerging. Only zerg can invade, because stun stun stun stun stun stun. Yes, it sucks.

[Zas_]

The new system is better, no doubt.

Though i think it is still based on population difference, attacking realm need enough to hold forts, and sometimes defenders can't do much.

Among improvements i'd like to see:

flag at gate or in forts shouldn't appear until guards near it are killed
the most populated (active war population) realm shouldn't be able to upgrade to level 4, if difference with attacked realm is too big.
after the end of the invasion, instant recapture should be prevented somehow (if defenders have hardly enough to defend gate/gems, they have hard time to prevent such recaptures, mostly done using only 1 enemy in each fort, who upgrade to level 4 immediatly).
defending noble should be rewarded
a reason to fight when only one fort is captured, most of the times people don't care until 2nd fort is captured. I have no idea yet, but war should be encouraged (in the game, not in the real world, of course).

[schachteana]

a reason to fight when only one fort is captured, most of the times people don't care until 2nd fort is captured. I have no idea yet, but war should be encouraged (in the game, not in the real world, of course).
I disagree about that point.. it is nice to have battles going without the urgent thread of an invasion. Fighting at a fort for 2 hours wasn't possible with the old invasion system.

...at least this works on Valhalla

[Kimahri_Ronso]

I think Zas means that once only one fort is being captured by the attackers the defenders will not move there to try to retake it / fight with the attackers, whatever, because there's no "danger" yet that threatens their gems / realm gate. I have to agree with this, since most of the time that is the case.

If maybe both, the attackers for holding one fort for a certain period of time and the defenders for being present near the fort / fighting the attackers / trying to retake the captured fort would get some kind of reward, then maybe there was more action and war.
Tho I couldn't think of anything so far since minor (1-2 hr) xp and gold boosts wouldn't encourage such actions any further but only kill them :D.

[Dumberest]

the new is better in many ways as people have already stated.i agree with zas about people not moving until a 2nd fort is taken,its dulled the action somewhat.

but overall I believe its a good change for the game and im glad about it.its given the smaller realm the chance to defend and that's a huge improvement on past versions.

[Ludwig Von Mises]

The new system is better, no doubt.

Though i think it is still based on population difference, attacking realm need enough to hold forts, and sometimes defenders can't do much.

Among improvements i'd like to see:

a reason to fight when only one fort is captured, most of the times people don't care until 2nd fort is captured. I have no idea yet, but war should be encouraged (in the game, not in the real world, of course).
[/LIST]

Don't see an issue with some people not coming to fight when only one fort is being captured.

Sometimes people have other things to do like grind to a higher level without being constantly interrupted by other realms trying to invade.

Some people want to enjoy arena time without the constant threat of being invaded.

Some want to have time to go mag hunting and enjoy sights in inner realm and you can't do that when your constantly being interrupted with the threat of invasion right? Right. :]

Some don't want to go fight at a fort that is captured by the realm that is most populated (at the time) when your realm is underpopulated. Sense they know that when one realm that has the most players on is probably just capturing one fort in order to farm the other underpopulated realm sense they know that if they split to the second fort the underpopulated realm has a better chance of capturing one or even both forts back.

Some don't care much if its just one fort, they want to go fight anyways which is your own choice and its fine. :] Sometimes i make that choice for fun. xD

[Zas_]

Don't see an issue with some people not coming to fight when only one fort is being captured.
...

Well, you may find this situation fine, but some players prefer to war, and this is the core of the game, i just noticed this is the current situation, you can cap one fort, and wait there with no one coming to take it back, or if you are on the attacked side, you can't gather enough to have a chance to take it back (so you'll get farmed, or just leave, which leads to the situation i describe). People are free to not participate to war, if they prefer hunt mags or grind (...), the problem concerns those who want to war.
Btw, a reason to fight in this situation doesn't necessarily mean change the fact two forts are needed to start relic counters. A kind of reward would suffice (wmc ?).

[Sentan]

Don't see an issue with some people not coming to fight when only one fort is being captured.

Some don't want to go fight at a fort that is captured by the realm that is most populated (at the time) when your realm is underpopulated.


I agree with you. :beerchug: The only thing I miss is a battle for the castle. Rewards for fighting at fortifications (wmc?) would be great.

but some players prefer to war, and this is the core of the game,
Really? So why leveling is so slow and boring? xD