A possible way to fix realm imbalance during off-peak hours

[Telwe]

It seems that during euro nights the realm balance has always been heavily skewed to one realm. Alsius is enjoying their period of domination right now, and once it was Ignis and maybe in the future it will be Syrtis. Right now, during euro days, when there are the most players online, there are very very few invasions. Then when most of the server sleeps, the strong realm wishes as often as they lke with little resistance. The normal active players of the other two realms cannot reasonably defend (cuz we have work and uni and families and stuff).

Now if this is what the game Devs want, then so be it. But I think it can be improved to include everyone during invasions without making people wake up at odd times every night.

My suggestion is:
-relic system stays the same as normal.
-However, once a realm puts relics in power source, the gate vulnerability is delayed to a future time, with regular updates/countdowns discerning as such.
-The time of gate vulnerability is sometime within the next 24 hours, which varies throughout the day.

So if relics are placed at 3 am euro time, and the server announces invasion for 6 pm, all the realms can sort of muster their strength... leading to bigger battles and more competitive fights. Now of course you must be wondering how the 3 am ppl tht placed relics will be able to take part in the invasion THEY started. Quite simply, vary the invasion times throughout the day, either make them random or pick 3 @ 8 hours apart and alternate them. And if they can't make the timed invasion, they can be consoled with the knowledge that they helped their realm by giving them an invasion chance. (It also gives less populated realms that do not have the numbers for gate/gems a goal which they can accomplish and then pass the torch on to their realm mates that log in at different times).

I just dont see the point of playing the game as it is, when I (and most of the server) could play from 6 am to Midnight and have negligible effect on invasions/gems/wishes. Syrtis invaded empty Ignis a few days ago to capture gems, and it was boring as fuck and unfair.

I acknowledge its not a perfect system, but it would stop the mentality of invading empty realms and/or surprising realms while they sleep. This, to me, is more of a cancer to the game than any bug/lag/rng/deathmatch issues or whatever, because invasions and dragon wishes are the ultimate goals of this game.

-Daith (Syrtis/GankForce)

Edit: I wont be responding to trolls/flamers or anyone without something concrete to say.

[Tenel_Ka]

It's an... interesting suggestion. It would prevent invasions from constantly occurring in off-peak time, but I think it would cause some problems as well.

It would be almost impossible to invade the most populated realm, as they'll be warned of invasion attempts against them and should have more numbers to defend than the other realms have to invade. Such a system would eliminate the possibility of having any planned invasions, and although planned invasions are a thing of the past, they would be the most effective way for a weak realm to invade. The system would stop invasions of empty realms, but it would also prevent the weaker realms from taking advantage of a drop in the stronger realm's population.

It also sounds like it would make off-peak time really boring. Invasions would be gone (except for planned invasions) and less people would participate in relic capture and defense because it matters less.

I'd also question the necessity of such a change. The rewards for invading aren't anything substantial. There's WMC and XP - only useful to alts and new players by now - and dragons which drop mediocre armour anyway. I can see how it's disappointing to not be able to defend your realm, but it's not as if anything bad occurs from being invaded.

I do like the idea of more populated invasions, but I feel it could be achieved differently, like scheduling a time each week where a realm's gate is vulnerable.


tl;dr
Would make strong realm impossible to invade
Would make off-peak boring

[pieceofmeat]

Setting a time for a zergfest is more of a risk factor, that would likely be abused heavily by multirealmers and zerg monkies anyway.

Invasions give no real rewards anymore, so i just dont care what happens when im not online.

If anything i think it would be way better to give some boosts for invading on "regular times", making it easier or more rewarding etc.

[Ludwig Von Mises]

The reason the two other realms are more empty is because of multis and their zerging power, and whats even worse then multis monopolizing the game is the gate strength. How do you expect to have nice, fun, long lasting battles at the gate and walls, if your barely able to stay at the gate for more then 10-20 seconds in an attempt to fight them off in vain, and when your outnumbered 1/4 or more?

If you want to see any positive change, you have to first start with the "gate strength" on the supposedly "GREAT WALL".

These reasons combined is why most players have either giving in to easy invasions by joining the multis, don't play the game as much anymore because of this, or have left the game for something better then this bullshit.

[pieceofmeat]

The reason most of the other two realms are more empty is because of multis and their zerging power, and whats even worse then multis monopolizing the game is the gate strength. How do you expect to have nice, fun, long lasting battles at the gate and walls, if your barely able to stay at the gate for more 10-20 seconds in an attempt to fight them off in vain, and when your outnumbered 1/4 or more?

If you want to see any positive change, you have to start first with the "gate strength" on the supposedly "GREAT WALL".

These reasons combined is why most players have either giving in to easy invasions by joining the multis, don't play the game as much anymore because of this, or have left the game for something better then this bullshit.

Somehow i dont think forcing invaders to be even more zergy is the solution either.

It may make that specific invasion more interesting, but likely also a factor that creat more imbalance and multirealming in the long run.

[mind-trick]

so if you live outside the EU or you dont have much spare time, you have to wait to participate in invasions most of the time? would be good for europeans but i wouldnt enjoy that.
and keep in mind that, after the invasion is scheduled, capping a fort would be practically pointless. would be a fun killer. and would also lead to lots of waiting and regrouping etc.
sorry but you cant balance realms like this with any kind of method alike especially not by forcing players

[Telwe]

so if you live outside the EU or you dont have much spare time, you have to wait to participate in invasions most of the time? would be good for europeans but i wouldnt enjoy that.
and keep in mind that, after the invasion is scheduled, capping a fort would be practically pointless. would be a fun killer. and would also lead to lots of waiting and regrouping etc.
sorry but you cant balance realms like this with any kind of method alike especially not by forcing players

This is still a broad concept and the details are not fleshed out.

In response to your question:
Not necessarily. Maybe the RNG for the invasion time can be skewed so that it reflects the server population. (Inventing numbers here:) So for maybe every 4 or 5 invasions, 1 will be @ off peak time. I understand its not particularly fair for this few, but right now its extremely unfair for the guys that never invade. Its a "for the greater good" thing.

"keep in mind that, after the invasion is scheduled, capping a fort would be practically pointless. would be a fun killer. and would also lead to lots of waiting and regrouping etc"

No. Lets say Realm A places relics. Invasion is scheduled. Then lets say a realm's forts are protected for a period of time. During that time they can gank or invade the other realm or something. Realm A can go back and retake those forts later and replace relics and schedule a second invasion. I don't see why we can't queue invasions. The fun is still there. Most of the euros of ignis and syrtis log in play knowing there is ~0% of invading alsius during the afternoon, but they still run around and have fun killing. (Also, as a side suggestion, there could be some small bonus for the ppl who successfully place relics. Maybe GC, or mags, or WMC or something. I'm sure ppl could come up with an appropriate reward). I think there can be enough of a system/rewards to make it fun in off peak hours even if you can't immediately invade empty realm.

---------------
@ Tenel-KA
"It would be almost impossible to invade the most populated realm, as they'll be warned of invasion attempts against them and should have more numbers to defend than the other realms have to invade."

I'm not sure. I've seen a few successful invasions against highly populated realms. There was one almost successful one by Alsius on Syrtis maybe 3 weeks ago during peak time, where there were a ton of ppl online. It was a great battle, and something I want to see more of. Personally, I think dragon wishes should be a special achievement, difficultly earned against the full might of the enemy realms.

" The system would stop invasions of empty realms, but it would also prevent the weaker realms from taking advantage of a drop in the stronger realm's population."

Again, I'm not sure about this assumption. Ignis and Syrtis can be incredibly strong in both warriors + conj combo and general zerginess if their big boys are all logged in at once.


"I'd also question the necessity of such a change. The rewards for invading aren't anything substantial. There's WMC and XP - only useful to alts and new players by now - and dragons which drop mediocre armour anyway. I can see how it's disappointing to not be able to defend your realm, but it's not as if anything bad occurs from being invaded. "

To you, Piece of Meat and Ludwig: Where's the realm pride? :razz: I always saw wishes as a reward in itself and not done for the wish rewards.


-------------
@Ludwig

I support adjusting great wall strength to help the outnumbered realm. At least until something more concrete is put in place.

[oim]

All limitations of the contents of the game are wrong. It is how it is. Day or night - the zerg rules every RvR game.
How often did we invade another realm close to the invasion-conten-shutting-down time and finally failed BECAUSE OF 5 MINUTES!!!! It sucks. Get more players is the solution.

Since ngd removed the portal amulet invasions are worthless anyway.

And invading empty realms is boring.

[crownapollo]

You're basically suggesting something like the relic lock for invasions, except you want to set the invasions at a random announced time later in the day. Relic locks only made things worse by making the off-hours of the server even more of a wasteland than it was before, and some people only have time to play the game at certain times. Like pieceofmeat said already, a set time for invasions would probably make it more of a zergfest. There isn't realm loyalty like there kind of used to be.

Personally, I don't care that much about invasions anymore, and it isn't the main feature of the game for me. It's a means to an end to get your characters to war master. I'd much rather find a good field fight / hunt or have a good fort fight.

[Telwe]

Thanks for the response. I completely underestimated how little many people care about their realm's success.

[Blart]

I think a better way to avoid multiple wishes in a night would be a lmited amount of wish per time. Like after having wished a realm cannot make another wish for 12h but they can still invade. It would keep the game dynamics and avoid wish abuse.

[Candyx]

I think a better way to avoid multiple wishes in a night would be a lmited amount of wish per time. Like after having wished a realm cannot make another wish for 12h but they can still invade. It would keep the game dynamics and avoid wish abuse.

Limiting options is pretty much the definition of making the game *LESS* dynamic. Since Syrtis isn't the zerg realm atm this might carry a little more weight; don't limit wishes/or put relic/gem locks on. Wishes are meant to be the ultimate target of the game, making that target completely impossible to reach removes the incentive introduced by the target. Less incentive = less war.

Also when Syrtis has been getting invaded recently it's been pretty fun, actual purposeful war!

[MDpro]

-However, once a realm puts relics in power source, the gate vulnerability is delayed to a future time, with regular updates/countdowns discerning as such.
-The time of gate vulnerability is sometime within the next 24 hours, which varies throughout the day.
The whole reason they changed the invasion system is so that the efforts of players that participate in capping forts and taking relics isn't for nothing, due to possibly not being on at a later time when their realm invades.

Setting a time for a zergfest is more of a risk factor, that would likely be abused heavily by multirealmers and zerg monkies anyway.
Indeed. It would become just like the circus that war zone bosses have become since they allowed level 60's able to drop.

I think a better way to avoid multiple wishes in a night would be a lmited amount of wish per time. Like after having wished a realm cannot make another wish for 12h but they can still invade. It would keep the game dynamics and avoid wish abuse.
Yup, I've suggested this before. I just think maybe putting gem locks for like 6 hours after a wish is made would be the best idea, and for all gems. Realms can invade to farm or kill noble, but it would prevent the desire to make many invasions in a short time.

Limiting options is pretty much the definition of making the game *LESS* dynamic. Since Syrtis isn't the zerg realm atm this might carry a little more weight; don't limit wishes/or put relic/gem locks on. Wishes are meant to be the ultimate target of the game, making that target completely impossible to reach removes the incentive introduced by the target. Less incentive = less war.

Also when Syrtis has been getting invaded recently it's been pretty fun, actual purposeful war!
I completely understand what you're saying, and you're right. It makes sense, if one realm has a good number of players, while the other two do not... Taking away a goal to the war system would maybe make them lose interest in war. But at the same time, I look at it like this (and Syrtis is the perfect example of this): Exactly how long do the zergers enjoy invading empty realms until that becomes redundant, which not only makes them lose interest in war, but either the game entirely, or the realm they play in?

And we must take into consideration the few people that are playing in the dead realms when they face multiple invasions in a short time. One invasion a night, yes, can be fun even if you get gems taken. Multiple ones, not so much. It becomes just as repetitive as it does for the realm invading dead realms all the time. Especially for new players in the less populated realms... they log on around the same time daily, try to peacefully grind and do quests in the realm only to get constantly hunted down by enemies wandering around for their regnum points. That makes them lose interest in the game because they already see how long it can take to level as it is, but getting killed all the time while doing it just makes it tougher (which is why I find ganking to be lame, unless it's against high level players... Just let people grind ffs). This makes an already dead realm even deader, with no sign of new players making it better in the near future because they either lose interest in the game, or they decide to switch to the more populated realm in attempt to have more fun... Which just adds to the imbalance even more. I think a gem block time after a wish would make realms not have as much interest in invading the same realm again, which will allow inner realm players to do their thing more peacefully.

One thing I will say is that I am glad to see Alsius has the common sense that Syrtis didn't have, and not try and invade all day every day. I know they have the numbers to invade and take gems more often than they have been, but they don't... Yet they still have the incentive to have fun at forts and such, it doesn't seem to be ruining the game for them, and doesn't make things too annoying for the other two realms at the same time. :smile:

[Candyx]

One other downside of a gem/relic block is the following situation:

Syrtis invades Alsius and gets the gems they need to make a wish! The make a wish and everyone happy. An hour later I log on to find Syrtis has many people online; perfect we might manage to invade, except wait Syrtis has had all the fun it can have today. Please return tomorrow for a chance of fun!

The best you could do is say any single player can't carry a relic/gem within 6 hours of previously doing so, for example. It would also give the less experienced players an opportunity to carry relics/gems.

[MDpro]

Syrtis invades Alsius and gets the gems they need to make a wish! The make a wish and everyone happy. An hour later I log on to find Syrtis has many people online; perfect we might manage to invade, except wait Syrtis has had all the fun it can have today. Please return tomorrow for a chance of fun!
Point taken, and for the players that had no involvement in previous invasions... Yes, I do agree they shouldn't have to miss anything because of what their realm did without them. But at the same time, if the only way to have fun in the game was to take gems... Then right both Ignis and Syrtis would have 0 players on all day. People can, and are having enough fun in the game to keep playing, taking gems isn't the only way. Also, 6 hours is not that long of a duration imo. It still allows the most populated realms to make multiple wishes in a day if they can, just stalls time a little which allows the chance for the crowds to change (due to different time zones and such) before another gem invasion is made. It might or might not be a good idea, not really sure. I just always like to keep new players in mind when it comes to changes in the game.

[halvdan]

Why do we even speak about wishing? What's the problem with wishing every day, or when only one realm is wishing, or if one realm is wishing twice a day?
How it hurts the game, or me, that some idkwhos in other country will get 12k wmc,30% XP more, or some more useless drops?
I would understand limiting invasions on empty realms, it can frustrate some players, especially grinding newbs getting ganked by some high heroes, but this isnt what you asked for, is it?

And, actually that, restriction of invading, in a form of relic lock we had before. And most players didn't like it. People should think twice, what they want.

[Valour]

The only way to get true balance would be a system where you are selected a realm to play in when you log in based on numbers in each realm group at the time.

There could be a queue to wait in if you wished you join your friends in a certain realm group for the time you are logged in if the numbers are uneven.

I really can't see any other way of creating balance personally, but this is completely different to the current system and we would all be multis.

[leafdale]

its great to have more ideas + suggestions.

i guess the difficulty i see about having the gate open at a random time after placing of the gems is this: the whole purpose of collecting gems is to gather your friends and enjoy the entire parade of your allies --- like a hunting party or cavalcade... then you invade as a group as this helps build camaraderie..

but-- you could be right that the random gate time opening can create a disjunction- a new dynamic in the game that forces players to respond on the spot. maybe they could craft it as a magical dynamic?

this is what makes team pvp in mmorpgs so great -- the world can be (theoretically) modified in anyway we like! (except for coding complexity/costs :/)

[Llayne]

I don't see why it is so difficult to use a gem lock used when looking at average population over an hour. Gem lock, not relic lock.

Then again, I don't what fun it is for goats lately. Take empty forts and sit there for 30 minutes? Good times?

[halvdan]

I don't see why it is so difficult to use a gem lock used when looking at average population over an hour. Gem lock, not relic lock.

Then again, I don't what fun it is for goats lately. Take empty forts and sit there for 30 minutes? Good times?
And what's the point of gem lock? How it helps underpopulated realms that overpopulated realm won't be able to wish? Like the view on statistics that Alsius
(or Syrtis before) was wishing in recent month 16 times hurts game?

If you don't want invading 60 vs 5, you have to disable invasions during....
Oh wait, we had this here already...

I'd say shut up and play.

[Sentan]

Then again, I don't what fun it is for goats lately. Take empty forts and sit there for 30 minutes? Good times?

I remember old, night invasions (after wm patch). So much fun, good times. :dance::dance::dance: everyone has their ups and downs

[Barreln]

Why do we even speak about wishing? What's the problem with wishing every day, or when only one realm is wishing, or if one realm is wishing twice a day?
How it hurts the game, or me, that some idkwhos in other country will get 12k wmc,30% XP more, or some more useless drops?
I would understand limiting invasions on empty realms, it can frustrate some players, especially grinding newbs getting ganked by some high heroes, but this isnt what you asked for, is it?

And, actually that, restriction of invading, in a form of relic lock we had before. And most players didn't like it. People should think twice, what they want.

Yes, that.
After implementing relic lock, a lot started to complaining that it kills war.
Now when there is again such a thing like gems lock or anything else,
then soon some will cry and complain again, that it kills war.

Somehow pretty stupid, when some forget about it, thats it now again the same situation as before, that at all 3 Servers is one and allways the same Realm what get the wishes all time, because they invade at low population times and have not really any resistance.

I still laugh about that majority from all realms after they all said, that removing the relic lock was sooo great. Now you got it and your "fun", but only for one realm.

Maybe some start first asking herself before they cry, that any lock will kill war, what will kill it more, a lock for certain mechanics or leaving players over time from the other 2 realms.

Now it is, like it is.

[Telwe]

I would like to categorically state that I never supported the removal of relic lock.

[crownapollo]

Restricting a game feature is never really the right solution. What you can do is create a fair and balanced game.

I'm not sure what they can do about realm imbalance, or multirealming for that matter that would be considered fair or balanced. I can remember logging in nights here during the relic lock and the only thing to do was afk or grind an alt- no war, basically no one hunting. It restricted the times players could play in an international game, where everyone could be logging from a different time zone and time of day. Relic lock wasn't a solution then and it isn't now. It won't stop zerging, it won't bring more players to one realm unless other players want to move to the lower populated realm out of sympathy or some sense of keeping the game going. I'm afraid after multirealming was allowed, and the attitude sunk in to a lot of players, it's going to take something drastic from NGD to restrict players to one realm.

[Kopstoot]

Main problem we are facing is just numbers determine the win. Inconsistent realm number balance is just casual, i guess it cant be prevented :P

[Barreln]

So, Valhalla has the gem lock during the lower populated times,
Haven cant ?

[SaraC]

The only true way to fix the overpopulation of realms is to limit new members and put a cap on new players in over-populated realms. The bottom line is that NGD could just take a look at every other MMORPG and just adjust their current, antiquated thinking to adopt a true balancing system. Otherwise, it will continue to have an over-populated realm for months on end (though Alsius is trying for a new record on months spent on top with this current push). Giving a realm 15% xp if you join it is pointless if you are still outnumbered 15 to one for months on end.

Again: NGD would have to pull their heads out of their consolidated 4th point of contacts (Army reference, sorry) for it to matter, and as we have seen so far, they have no will, and/or intelligence to do so.

So, in the meantime, just play and try to have as much fun as you can with the limited gameplay offered by thick-thinkers. ;)

[Llayne]

There was a time that when an invasion started guards were spawned based on how outnumbered the defenders were. The big problem with that was the placement.

I think that spawning guards and guard captains would work pretty well if they were spawned inside by the flag. Even if you were heavily outnumbered the chaos a gc or two would create could open opportunities for the outnumbered realm.

It seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

[Dumberest]

Invasions are not important,the issue is the playing numbers online at all hours of the day.

its been mentioned in other threads by players how they consider haven to be dying again.i totally agree with this,the new players are just not there.the most common form of a new players is someone buying and old account and renaming it.

get more players and the problem gets fixed.market the game and update it so that it appeals to players from different time zones.this has all been said before and NGD just dont listen.the merge with nemon bought us some time but really the problems still exists and needs to be rectified fast before we lose haven forever.

[Ludwig Von Mises]

There was a time that when an invasion started guards were spawned based on how outnumbered the defenders were. The big problem with that was the placement.

I think that spawning guards and guard captains would work pretty well if they were spawned inside by the flag. Even if you were heavily outnumbered the chaos a gc or two would create could open opportunities for the outnumbered realm.

It seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

Now heres an idea. But lets see what NGD does.

I really feel bad for the around 4-9 people that have to defend the gate against a zerg of 30 plus when most people are off or have disbalanced the realm system intentionally to join the other much bigger realm zerg.

[Kimahri_Ronso]

I really feel bad for the around 4-9 people that have to defend the gate against a zerg of 30 plus when most people are off or have disbalanced the realm system intentionally to join the other much bigger realm zerg.

Welcome.
ten chars

[Llayne]

Welcome.
ten chars

Making the gate invulnerable after capture was a terrible idea as well. Maybe on RA it is better but on haven it's horrible.

[pieceofmeat]

Making the gate invulnerable after capture was a terrible idea as well. Maybe on RA it is better but on haven it's horrible.

Fights in the open is more fun, personally I cant see any downside to it that isnt compensated with the lowered time frame for an invasion.

[Sentan]

Imo castle should be required to start any invasion. I miss these times, castle wars ;) for underpopulated realms it used to be easier to prevent from invasion (hold the castle=>camp:P).

Yeah, that's what we need right now :P

[LoveleHaven]

To be honest I don't know much about invasions, but if this game wants to be a true open-world PvP game than invasions should have no limitations at all. You should be able to invade whenever you want without limitation(did I already say that? o.O).
There is no1 to defend? That's it, the world is not gonna collapse.