The genius idea "Mind Squasher"

[Anunnaki]

Hey,

Do u think Mind Squasher is important ?
I don't understand how devs come to this idea, and made this stupid spell.
but this shit is too OP and break all rules. Especially when u are playing barb ;getting MS just means poor death and ragequit.

i just want to know what u think about it, becuze i'm mad from it.

Actually MS : 100%dmg, losing all buffs, losing all ur mana for nothing > death 100% in wz.
retardedly use
http://i.imgur.com/5P0wJVO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Q0n0kFE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FgwAJoJ.png
http://i.imgur.com/JoSHkZF.jpg

[halvdan]

Especially when u are playing barb ;getting MS just means poor death and ragequit.

serious now?

Did you ever play conj or knight?
Actually, only valid reason for keeping MS as it is, is for me MS on DI-ed and overbuffed barbs.

Anyway, I agree that MS is sometimes too much, and would be nice to see it changed, but alongside nerfing the OP effects of DI and buffs on already overgeared barbs.

[Sentan]

MS should dispel all positive powers on the target for some time (8 sec for example+chance to dispel 100%). The current version of this spell is too OP.

Divine Intervention and Dispel Magic (10s cd 25r wtf)... both of these skills need to be nerfed along with MS. I'm not sure with Darkness and Confuse.

[Cupto]

MS should dispel all positive powers on the target for some time (6 sec for example+chance to dispel 100%). The current version of this spell is too OP.

Divine Intervention and Dispel Magic (10s cd 25r wtf)... both of these skills should be nerfed along with MS. I'm not sure with Darkness and Confuse.

Leave the DI alone, ssshhh, I know playing a conj in a zerg is easy, just pay attention to how many active conjs are playing at underpopulated realm, nerf the DI even more, might as well take away the DI, atm the DI at lvl 5 can not out last the cooling time after the recent nerf.
I agree the MS5 need to be modified, make it tempprrarily remove the postive buff for 5,6 secs. If the spell is 100%, increase the cooling time, that's all i have to say.

[schachteana]

Removal or shortage of duration for spells like these will never solve the core problems.

As always, here's my unchanged opinion about mind squasher and things like that:
Mind squasher (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1781019#post1781019) (very good, short suggestion imo)
...
Divine intervention is way too OP in combination with Unstoppable madness. I guess, UM should temporarily disable DI.
also see quote for a list of suggestions. In that thread, there are also some other nice ideas.

[Iheartpancakes]

As a knight, Mind Squasher is an important spell. I can use it to help defend allies from rushing barbs, remove steel skin from enemy conjurers, auras from other knights. Yes it sucks when I get hit with it, but I use it just as much in return. Considering my realm has been outnumbered recently, it is proving to be very useful. No, I would hate to see this spell go or nerfed any more. I do, however, think there should be a limit on the number of MS's a single person can receive in a limited amount of time.

[Telwe]

Its fine as it is.

Sentan.. dispel magic is crucial to mages and can't be touched.

[EMIN]

I'd move it to a knight tree and change the % to 30/35% at lv5.

[pieceofmeat]

I like MS, i dont play a warrior anymore, but melee combat need that twist or its too predictable, in favour for the overbuffed tard with most babysitters.

It always was kind of lame in pvp, but who cares!

Its usually "better" to get MSed by a barb than dizzy. So if you think it so op, maybe its your game plan?

[Ludwig Von Mises]

MS is fine as is. :wiggle14:

MS is the most effective if not the only way to stop a charging barb from killing your conjur or other teammates in your group.

No other warrior power comes close to it (atleast for knights). The rest of the spells are not effective. Cast disable limb 5 on a barb while its charging and it will just cast spring and reach its target. Note that in the warzone most barbs come with a mage so most likely they will be buffed and therefore you cannot cast disable limb 5 or any other debuff power except for ms. MS then becomes your only debuff power in that situation.

[schachteana]

MS is fine as is. :wiggle14:

MS is the most effective if not the only way to stop a charging barb from killing your conjur or other teammates in your group.

No other warrior power comes close to it (atleast for knights). The rest of the spells are not effective. Cast disable limb 5 on a barb while its charging and it will just cast spring and reach its target. Note that in the warzone most barbs come with a mage so most likely they will be buffed and therefore you cannot cast disable limb 5 or any other debuff power except for ms. MS then becomes your only debuff power in that situation.

so, you're basically saying there are situatiions (everyday situation: barb + conju) where really ALL SPELLS are of NO USE AT ALL, and MS is the ONLY way to STOP that? Tell this to someone who doesn't know Regnum and he'll tell you this game's balance is broken completely.
and in the same breath, you also tell that the situation is fine as it is?

Has everybody really given hope up things might turn a bit sane one day?

[oim]

You need MS for overbuffed barbs (DI + UM) ... this buff combi should not be possible and rework this game destroying dmg calc with boss jewelery and think about a 6 sec cooldown of the uberstrong noob South Cross

and for super tanky knights ... too offensive for such godmode def abilities.

OR

I said it very often: reduce the discipline points to the amount of lvl 50. this would be the best. 50 was great. Balance is when you cant have all the goodies. Lvl60, wm, stronger weapons, better armor than lvl50 but still not be able to skill ALL the good spells.

[Anunnaki]

When i see some comments, i thhink some knight/babrs maybe have only MS in their quickbar

[Iheartpancakes]

I'd move it to a knight tree and change the % to 30/35% at lv5.

I don't mind the idea of moving it to Knight tree. Gives them another way to support allies so barbs can just focus on dps, but I wouldn't touch the chance of dispel on target.

[Iheartpancakes]

When i see some comments, i thhink some knight/babrs maybe have only MS in their quickbar

That'd be pretty stupid, wouldn't it? Why would you even say such a daft thing. If you don't have anything meaningful to say in regards to this conversation, don't say anything at all.

[Candyx]

Speaking as someone who has *never* skilled MS and suffers the annoyance of this spell *frequently* I really think it should stay. If this is the one spell that stands out in my mind as being reasonably effective against my conj/knight then removing/nerfing it would probably be a bad idea. It's annoying enough, but not so annoying that I feel the need to rage quit.

Also what's the difference between loosing all your buffs to MS and having an archer kite you until the buffs are on CD? It surely comes down to choosing when to buff? If you think an enemy maybe has MS, don't use 100% of your mana in your first run.

[Vyrann]

I think the spell should stay. However, I think at level 5 it should be 100% And the effect should be to remove all 'offensive' buffs (So on a barb, it doesn't remove frenzy and caution, but removes beserk, thirst for blood and the weapon buff) With this you can stop enemy barbs from destroying a teammate, but at the same time the barb who gets MS'd will not suffer instant death.

[-Aniara-]

You guys wanna live forever? just rush, have fun, kill and be killed, repeat.

MS is needed when a well supported target need be dealt with, be it a barb, conju or knight.

Spell is fine as is.

/A

[halvdan]

MS is the most effective if not the only way to stop a charging barb from killing your conjur or other teammates in your group.

...
Well, Ludwig is actually right in this. Idk if MS is fine, I don't care much about it, but it's true that MS is very effective way how to disable overbuffed, DI-ed barbs rushing enemy conjs. Especially now when shield wall got nerf.
I'm not saying that it's good how it is, but simple removal would be worse.

When i see some comments, i thhink some knight/babrs maybe have only MS in their quickbar
Oh, c'mon:smile:
I'm not using MS anymore; now it's like year. And believe, It's much pain to get MS-ed to me also. But still I think the spell should stay; MS makes gameplay more variable - what I mean; I need to cast my spells wisely and not to use all my buffs at once.
Playing knight would be easier, more predictable and also boring without MS to me - I don't want game getting easier.
Maybe thinking short about how to play when you get MS-ed would be more use than starting threads like this...atleast in case you want enjoy the game and not generate RPS with DI, 5conjs on your ass and no risk at all.

[Anunnaki]

I mean MS is too OP "as it is now",and the game is not only one spell to rely on.
MS can be changed to remove only allies buffs. Or to remove only "deff or attack" buffs and be 100% o chance.

[Kopstoot]

everyone uses hammer? every1 plays warrior? Nope, that proofs that MS isnt that much needed, ms is just 2good.

[Iheartpancakes]

I mean MS is too OP "as it is now",and the game is not only one spell to rely on.
MS can be changed to remove only allies buffs. Or to remove only "deff or attack" buffs and be 100% o chance.

Don't let your personal feelings cloud your judgement. Nobody likes being MS'd, but we have to agree, it's a useful spell. As I said, my realm currently has fewer players than the other two, so being able to MS in order to help kill things quicker is a blessing. Without it, we'd never get through an army of knights that sometimes shows up on our doorstep.
Once again, do not nerf. Keep MS the way it is.

[Awrath]

MS is fine as it is IMO. It's not spammed that often and there is an element of chance involved, and the amount of people that hit me with MS while I am not yet buffed, I'll take it!

What shouldn't happen however is making MS knight only. The only effect that will have is increase the use of MS, as it means it will have to go in Vanguard or Shields, both trees of which are maxed out by most knights. So, while now you need to sacrifice points in the blunt tree to get MS, moving it to knight only makes it more accessible and there would be no requirement to change weapons either, just spam more.

[Loque]

MS is fine as it is IMO. It's not spammed that often ...
I beg to differ. http://i.imgur.com/5P0wJVO.jpg

However, I wouldn't recommend removing it or making it knight only but would like to see it modified to some particular buff(s) removal or time based or something of that sort spell.

And all these I want to protect conjurers or allies or this or that is just fancy talk. People use MS because it's simply such an overwhelming spell that gives the greatest satisfaction among all the other spells and everybody loves to get high on that aspect, who wouldn't love to have a one kill shot spell in their arsenal.

Real problem is dual wield in combination with Fulminating which is a typical balance issue with no moderation on that combo at all.

[pieceofmeat]

Move MS to knights and make it 2h weapond only.

[halvdan]

I beg to differ. http://i.imgur.com/5P0wJVO.jpg

However, I wouldn't recommend removing it or making it knight only but would like to see it modified to some particular buff(s) removal or time based or something of that sort spell.

And all these I want to protect conjurers or allies or this or that is just fancy talk. People use MS because it's simply such an overwhelming spell that gives the greatest satisfaction among all the other spells and everybody loves to get high on that aspect, who wouldn't love to have a one kill shot spell in their arsenal.

Real problem is dual wield in combination with Fulminating which is a typical balance issue with no moderation on that combo at all.

lol Irsh, first you show us the picture of 3 MS on you in log, and just after that say
"i want to protect allies by ms-ing barbs" is fancy talk?
Thanks, your picture proved extremely well what is MS good for. For disabling overbuffed barbs with army of conjs on their asses, just like you or Tiger was.

But yes, I agree that some people use it just because it's super OP, especially for some players who use it as "one kill shot spell". How ironic you say that :D

[Kyrenis]

Nobody likes being MS'd, but we have to agree, it's a useful spell. IMO just because a spell is useful doesn't mean it's balanced/right for the game. I never play Haven anymore because I just get zerged with ms every single time I try to kill anyone.

I personally think it should be 100% chance to remove all ally buffs (shield wall/mat wall/di/etc) so it doesn't royally fuck over anyone that has it casted on them.
:bangin:

[Iheartpancakes]

IMO just because a spell is useful doesn't mean it's balanced/right for the game. I never play Haven anymore because I just get zerged with ms every single time I try to kill anyone.

I personally think it should be 100% chance to remove all ally buffs (shield wall/mat wall/di/etc) so it doesn't royally fuck over anyone that has it casted on them.
:bangin:

I agree it gets spammed all too often, which is why I suggested a player should be invulnerable to MS for a certain duration after being MS'd.
Not sure I'd like to only remove ally buffs. If a barb is rushing my team mate with UM and fulmi, it's not like I can kick him down, and now shield wall has been nerfed that barely does anything under a raging barb with fulmi. My only option is to MS and hope like hell it works so they don't get 2 hit.
Maybe MS should be a Knight only spell also.

[Loque]

lol Irsh, first you show us the picture of 3 MS on you in log, and just after that say
"i want to protect allies by ms-ing barbs" is fancy talk?
Thanks, your picture proved extremely well what is MS good for. For disabling overbuffed barbs with army of conjs on their asses, just like you or Tiger was.

But yes, I agree that some people use it just because it's super OP, especially for some players who use it as "one kill shot spell". How ironic you say that :D
That was a PN fight me vs them. I don't need any ally buffs to kill anyone. Asses and buffs are for another topic, rather stick with topic than turn into personal attacks.

Ignorance at it's best.

[Pery3000]

I beg to differ. http://i.imgur.com/5P0wJVO.jpg

However, I wouldn't recommend removing it or making it knight only but would like to see it modified to some particular buff(s) removal or time based or something of that sort spell.

And all these I want to protect conjurers or allies or this or that is just fancy talk. People use MS because it's simply such an overwhelming spell that gives the greatest satisfaction among all the other spells and everybody loves to get high on that aspect, who wouldn't love to have a one kill shot spell in their arsenal.

Real problem is dual wield in combination with Fulminating which is a typical balance issue with no moderation on that combo at all.

^what he said. I spam MS cause I know how many people get mad when it works. I even rage myself.

[Iheartpancakes]

If any one disagrees with me I will ms you. To protect my kin, of course.

[oim]

If MS is removed, what is the point of the blunt skill tree? No lvl 60 weapons apart from those outdated 2 handed weapons or a decent dmg spell. Even the crit buff was merved to a hardly playable short duration.

[Iheartpancakes]

If MS is removed, what is the point of the blunt skill tree? No lvl 60 weapons apart from those outdated 2 handed weapons or a decent dmg spell. Even the crit buff was merved to a hardly playable short duration.

Pretty much no point, apart from strength passive. The other trees have nice attack spells, but let's be honest, forceful blow is a pile of crap that barely anybody skills.

Loque - "People use MS because it's simply such an overwhelming spell that gives the greatest satisfaction among all the other spells and everybody loves to get high on that aspect".
This may go for some, but not everybody. I genuinely find it useful. There's no point playing a game if you're not playing it for the right reasons.

I receive just as many MS's as you would, but I'll still defend it because it's a spell, as a knight, I depend on while pb is unreliable.

http://i.imgur.com/gNUD5Xs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3x2e4Db.jpg

All that being said,

http://i.imgur.com/hRNzB2r.jpg

MS and I have a love/hate relationship.

[Dumberest]

remove the ability to totally remove buffs and like was mentioned put a time on each level for effect.

[-Aniara-]

Game would be boring without MS. There need to be a counter to hard targets. And there need to be dangers, even too a well supported barb. God mode is dull.

/A

[kowocki]

The spell is good as it is.
With its 50% chance on lvl 5 and current RNG +much loger cooldown since one of past updates its not spammed.

The problem is the class numbers imbalance at forts among realms.

Recently i just LOL/cry seeing alsius big group of archers and mages helplessly trying to kill a group of red knights and few ammy barbs with conju support at aggy. Seriously i was only one knight in a group and nobody even bothered to wait for my aura.

Use brain, team work instead of crying. Can't do team work?-play single player games.

When last friday i logged barb and saw we got many dual wielding killers online but no support knight i relogged knight cause it was needed.

And yes, we got few players in each realm who are divas/self proclaimed heroes with ego as high as Himalayas/pets simply juicy targets. What i have learned from forum during past few years is that this bunch of "rock stars" constitute vast majority of these who always complain nerf nerf, buff buff because "i cant be OP all the time as some random guy managed to MS me and this stupid conju cast life saviour on that noob instead supporting me - a demi god 24/7 and i was killed instead farming my X-rps a day"

[Svarec]

The spell is good as it is.
With its 50% chance on lvl 5 and current RNG +much loger cooldown since one of past updates its not spammed.


Absolutly agree with you.
See at other trees:
slash has SC - barbs spamming it every 10s and doing really insane dmg in combo with berserk and fulmi.
Pierce tree - people can use range attacks and "use" position bugs/lags to do 8m kicks and such things.

Both that trees can use nice OP legendary 1h weapons in dual wield.
Dual wield vs two-handed need to be fixed too but it is diff story.
Where is 1h hammers or maces for lvl60 batbs? There are only for knights. Best hammer u can have is wm one or new tk one - but there u cant get such bonuses as on swords and spears.

So i think there is balance in that three trees and every tree gives you other type of gameplay and it is good. I want to see more diversity in setups and gameplays.
It will be really boring for me if i fight against barbs and all will buff same and only spam SC and calling for mana on their conjus or kicking me from 8m and hit me 3times before i can get to them.

My view is from barbs side only because it is my main class and i dont have any knights.

[Kiraflax]

u can improve the blunt tree in another aspect. thats logical. and warrior just has too many buffs especially barb

[Awrath]

Or, bring back old dispel that used to remove all buffs too. MS with range!!

[Kyrenis]

Pierce tree - people can use range attacks and "use" position bugs/lags to do 8m kicks and such things.

99% sure this has nothing to do with pierce.
With its 50% chance on lvl 5 and current RNG +much loger cooldown since one of past updates its not spammed.
It is still just a mere 40 second CD, so theoretically every time you cast berserk you can cast MS.
Even if it is a 50% chance, you don't lose anything if it fails. You still deal 100% damage at the cost of a little bit of mana.
However if it does work, you will deal a massive hit and permanently remove all buffs on that target until they come off CD, and when they come off CD you can probably go for another MS.

The spell needs to be adjusted/replaced with something balanced.

[Iheartpancakes]

The spell needs to be adjusted/replaced with something balanced.

How about a spell that lowers protection, cast speed, attack damage for limited duration?

[Svarec]

99% sure this has nothing to do with pierce.


You are right it is mostly spear problem, thats why so many barbs using spears and not rapiers.
What i tried to say is every tree has it is own advantage blunt=MS slash=SC and spears=range, rapiers are useless crap as it is, thats why i said it is pierce but you are right it is spear advantage.

If you remove MS, blunt tree will be useless, same as rapiers.

[Ludwig Von Mises]

The spell is good as it is.
With its 50% chance on lvl 5 and current RNG +much loger cooldown since one of past updates its not spammed.

The problem is the class numbers imbalance at forts among realms.

Recently i just LOL/cry seeing alsius big group of archers and mages helplessly trying to kill a group of red knights and few ammy barbs with conju support at aggy. Seriously i was only one knight in a group and nobody even bothered to wait for my aura.

Use brain, team work instead of crying. Can't do team work?-play single player games.

When last friday i logged barb and saw we got many dual wielding killers online but no support knight i relogged knight cause it was needed.

And yes, we got few players in each realm who are divas/self proclaimed heroes with ego as high as Himalayas/pets simply juicy targets. What i have learned from forum during past few years is that this bunch of "rock stars" constitute vast majority of these who always complain nerf nerf, buff buff because "i cant be OP all the time as some random guy managed to MS me and this stupid conju cast life saviour on that noob instead supporting me - a demi god 24/7 and i was killed instead farming my X-rps a day"

I agree. :]

I just saw two barbs write about how they get zerged then ms-ed and how its too overwhelming. Really? Being overwhelmed by overwhelming odds seems to be the logical conclusion. And anyways why would you charge a zerg when you have ill support or no support at all? Thats because its a common practice especially around barbs to charge this way. And lets say these same people charged them with support they may still be complaining like this: I charge a zerg and they southcross me and i'm dead. Really? That happened to you when you charge a zerg? Oh really?..

Learn when its the right time to charge a little better. But i'm guessing you'll keep complaining about how you don't use your brain much and say this: I charge a zerg and don't kill anything. No really?..


Proof: I don't need any ally buffs to kill anyone.Barb mindset. xD

[Kyrenis]

You are right it is mostly spear problem, thats why so many barbs using spears and not rapiers.
What i tried to say is every tree has it is own advantage blunt=MS slash=SC and spears=range, rapiers are useless crap as it is, thats why i said it is pierce but you are right it is spear advantage.

I was referring to your statement about 8m kicks, spears dont give you godlike range on all your spells.
If you remove MS, blunt tree will be useless, same as rapiers.
I still use a rapier :wiggle14:

I just saw two barbs write about how they get zerged then ms-ed and how its too overwhelming. Really? Being overwhelmed by overwhelming odds seems to be the logical conclusion. And anyways why would you charge a zerg when you have ill support or no support at all? Thats because its a common practice especially around barbs to charge this way. And lets say these same people charged them with support they may still be complaining like this: I charge a zerg and they southcross me and i'm dead. Really? That happened to you when you charge a zerg? Oh really?..

Learn when its the right time to charge a little better. But i'm guessing you'll keep complaining about how you don't use your brain much and say this: I charge a zerg and don't kill anything. No really?..
Not sure if you are talking about one of my posts, but I never said I was facing overwhelming odds, I was facing an overwhelming amount of MS.
There is literally nothing you can do but pray if you get MSed by a barb that's under UM.

How about a spell that lowers protection, cast speed, attack damage for limited duration?
I would rather the blunt tree have something like this instead of a game winning chance spell.

[Anunnaki]

I would rather the blunt tree have something like this instead of a game winning chance spell.

^this, finally a "logical thinker"

[Ludwig Von Mises]

Not sure if you are talking about one of my posts, but I never said I was facing overwhelming odds, I was facing an overwhelming amount of MS.

There is literally nothing you can do but pray if you get MSed by a barb that's under UM.

Players who skill ms and have to sacrifice other spells to use it shouldn't have to pay for your unwillingness to adapt and be more flexible in battle.

Why complain here of your unwillingness to adapt? Your essentially complaining about other players using certain powers you will not skill yourself because your set on a certain type of setup which is not as effective as theirs is in battle.

[Kyrenis]

Players who skill ms and have to sacrifice other spells to use it shouldn't have to pay for your unwillingness to adapt and be more flexible in battle.

Why complain here of your unwillingness to adapt?
How is someone supposed to adapt to a spell that removes every single buff as soon as it is casted?
There is nothing you can do to counter it, especially as a warrior since you are forced to fight in melee range.
Your essentially complaining about other players using certain powers you will not skill yourself because your set on a certain type of setup which is not as effective as theirs is in battle.
I prefer not ensuring my victory with an overpowered coin flip of death.
However sometimes I use it on my knight to get revenge on the cunts that spam it.

[Ludwig Von Mises]

How is someone supposed to adapt to a spell that removes every single buff as soon as it is casted?
There is nothing you can do to counter it, especially as a warrior since you are forced to fight in melee range.

I shouldn't have to tell this and you should already know but i'll give you a few examples. A barb with ms charging another barb without ms: The barb without ms (which i will assume is you) is getting charged by the barb with ms and UM (ms doesn't always work) you can cast disable limb level 4 or 5, and if the ms works, you can run while you are able to cast your buffs back, and maybe, cast roar-kick-fulmi when your opponent runs out of UM.

Another situation would be a barb without support charging a barb with a conjur on its back. You can't cast disable limb on a barb that has been buffed by a conjur. Now why would you charge a barb that has a conjur on its back without any ally support? Exactly you shouldn't do that unless you have some master plan to take them both out. xD

Anyways, if you refuse to adapt either in tactics or skills, or both, when dealing with other players and their setups in battle why bother to complain? Isn't this your own fault?

I prefer not ensuring my victory with an overpowered coin flip of death.

I thought playing barb was about "ensuring victory with an overpowered coin flip of death"?? xD

[Kyrenis]

I shouldn't have to tell this and you should already know but i'll give you a few examples. A barb with ms charging another barb without ms: The barb without ms (which i will assume is you) is getting charged by the barb with ms and UM (ms doesn't always work) you can cast disable limb level 4 or 5, and if the ms works, you can run while you are able to cast your buffs back, and maybe, cast roar-kick-fulmi when your opponent runs out of UM.

Another situation would be a barb without support charging a barb with a conjur on its back. You can't cast disable limb on a barb that has been buffed by a conjur. Now why would you charge a barb that has a conjur on its back without any ally support? Exactly you shouldn't do that unless you have some master plan to take them both out. xD

Anyways, if you refuse to adapt either in tactics or skills, or both, when dealing with other players and their setups in battle why bother to complain? Isn't this your own fault?



I thought playing barb was about "ensuring victory with an overpowered coin flip of death"?? xD
When did I ever say I was rushing without support? You are implying I have no idea how to play this game and you are making MS sound like a mere annoyance.
Why should 1 spell put you out of a fight for 40(+) seconds and/or be your certain death?

"Hurrhurr their barb has ms lets wait til we get 20 conjus so we can rush" -ludwig

[pieceofmeat]

When did I ever say I was rushing without support? You are implying I have no idea how to play this game and you are making MS sound like a mere annoyance.
Why should 1 spell put you out of a fight for 40(+) seconds and/or be your certain death?

"Hurrhurr their barb has ms lets wait til we get 20 conjus so we can rush" -ludwig

Barbs dont have to buff everything at once.

They can do plenty more or less unbuffed, unless maybe if they gimped themselves to only deal damage.

Work with you allies and live with the fact that cant 2 hit kill for 40 sec, its not the same as being out of fight.
They put themselves in that position by over buffing.

If you die you die, UM, DI etc is not god mode.
Im opinion ms is not half as deadly as a dizzy from a barb, just more annoying since it fucks with peoples over confidence in their OP buffs.

[Kyrenis]

Barbs dont have to buff everything at once.

They can do plenty more or less unbuffed, unless maybe if they gimped themselves to only deal damage.

Work with you allies and live with the fact that cant 2 hit kill for 40 sec, its not the same as being out of fight.
They put themselves in that position by over buffing.

An unbuffed barb is damn near useless, the only thing that makes the class useful is its buffs.
Without berserk our damage is pitiful, it doesn't matter what other buffs we don't use to save for when we get MSed.
If you die you die, UM, DI etc is not god mode.
Im opinion ms is not half as deadly as a dizzy from a barb, just more annoying since it fucks with peoples over confidence in their OP buffs.
There should at least be some sort of way to protect yourself against MS.
There is nothing you can do to avoid it, which is pretty stupid IMO.(only archers and knights can counter it if they are stupid enough to cast it through PB/SotW)

Even a drawback to using it would be nice, for example if it fails it removes the last buff you casted on yourself.

[Candyx]

Is MS really that different from kick? Kick 5 from a barb is death. At least with MS you have a chance to survive. Sure you might not kill anyone but you'd live to fight another day.

My point isn't kick is OP (or that barbs are OP) it's that a single OP spell doesn't warrant changes. If every class has an OP spell then the game's still balanced. So why os MS worst than darkness, confuse, kick etc?

[Kimahri_Ronso]

Is MS really that different from kick?

Kick can be dispelled, unlike MS.

So why os MS worst than darkness, confuse, kick etc?

Darkness, confuse, kick "etc" wears off, unlike MS. The worst thing in MS is that you have to wait for the spell that was MS'd to go off of CD and be ready for re-use.

[Candyx]

Again my point wasn't a direct comparison. If you wanted that I could argue darkness is more OP since you cant be healed once it's been cast on you. Or kick is more OP since you can't move without a dispel. You cant objectively weigh up the fact that MS dispels positive effects against darkness stopping new positive effects. Depending on the situation darkness can be alot more of a challenge to a night than MS. A simple example would be dismounting, dismount someone with MS and it has almost no effect on the battle, dismount someone with darkness and they've pretty much got to run untill darkness passes.

[Hollow-Ichigo]

i use ms on people who arent even buffed. why? because it does damage

[Kyrenis]

A simple example would be dismounting, dismount someone with MS and it has almost no effect on the battle, dismount someone with darkness and they've pretty much got to run untill darkness passes.
Most people are smart enough to know not to dismount people with MS.

That's like saying using confuse on someone while they are ambushed is better than casting BoW on them while ambushed. Of course it is better because 1 does something and the other does nothing. Both spells are good, but you are comparing 2 spells at one's prime while the other is severely inferior.
A spell is only useful if used properly.

[Candyx]

Most people are smart enough to know not to dismount people with MS.

That's like saying using confuse on someone while they are ambushed is better than casting BoW on them while ambushed. Of course it is better because 1 does something and the other does nothing. Both spells are good, but you are comparing 2 spells at one's prime while the other is severely inferior.
A spell is only useful if used properly.

This is my point. Arguing that one spell is stronger than other based on non numeric factors (loss of buffs v can't be healed) is a pointless exercise. My argument about MS to dismount was intentionally facetious to highlight the problem with arguing that one spell is more overpowered than others. Reductio ad absurdum.

[Kyrenis]

This is my point. Arguing that one spell is stronger than other based on non numeric factors (loss of buffs v can't be healed) is a pointless exercise. My argument about MS to dismount was intentionally facetious to highlight the problem with arguing that one spell is more overpowered than others. Reductio ad absurdum.
But you are the only one bringing up darkness in this thread, they are two very different spells from different classes that happen share some common ground.
Darkness is at least preventable (with DI) while there is nothing you can do to stop an MS.

I fail to understand why people continue to defend MS in its current state.

[Wiedeking]

"Hello, ms is good but i dont wanna use it caus idk. pls nerf or nubs like me wont have fun. "

This is what i read all the time.

[Candyx]

But you are the only one bringing up darkness in this thread, they are two very different spells from different classes that happen share some common ground.
Darkness is at least preventable (with DI) while there is nothing you can do to stop an MS.

I fail to understand why people continue to defend MS in its current state.

The purpose of my argument was to highlight that thus far all that's been said against MS is that it's a very effective spell in some situations. So I internationally gave some instances of other spells being more effective in other situations. It's going to be extremely hard to quantify if one spell is better than another if the spells do more than just fixed damage, but this is essentially what your argument is based on. If you can give me one *objective* reason MS is more powerful than *any* other spell then I see the reason for this thread, otherwise all I get from this is that you don't like MS.

[Kyrenis]

The purpose of my argument was to highlight that thus far all that's been said against MS is that it's a very effective spell in some situations. So I internationally gave some instances of other spells being more effective in other situations. It's going to be extremely hard to quantify if one spell is better than another if the spells do more than just fixed damage, but this is essentially what your argument is based on. If you can give me one *objective* reason MS is more powerful than *any* other spell then I see the reason for this thread, otherwise all I get from this is that you don't like MS.

For starters it has a 50% chance to remove all buffs. No other spell comes close in effectiveness. What is the point of casting buffs around someone that uses blunt if they can remove them all instantly? Oh you casted ao1/um/steel skin/escapist? Guess I'll just remove them along with everything else you happen to have on you.

Even with a 50% chance you don't lose anything if it fails, you still deal whatever a normal hit would have been so there are no drawbacks at all to it being a chance spell.

Unlike most effective spells it can't be dispelled.

Unlike most effective spells it can't be prevented with certain buffs or nullified by auras.

The spell has a mere 40 second cooldown, meaning its cooldown is shorter than the cooldown of most buffs. (aka spammable)

If it doesn't kill you, you will probably be out of the fight for at least a minute until your buffs are off cooldown, thus making it the longest duration CC spell.

The people that use this spell rely on RNG which shouldn't be something we promote.




I'd list a couple more but I'd rather get lunch. :fsm:

[Kimahri_Ronso]

How about adding the following drawback to MS, after each usage of the spell there's a % chance (according to the level of the MS that was used) for the caster too to lose a random buff she has on herself, the effect resets after umm let's say five usage and the whole thing starts from all over again xD

All for one, and one for all! My genius idea lol xD

[-Aniara-]

MS prevents buffing one player in absurdum. Without it there be no drawback to create a overbuffed monster.

MS is a needed skill. Remove it and a whole lot of unbalanced situations may pop up.

/A

[Kyrenis]

MS prevents buffing one player in absurdum. Without it there be no drawback to create a overbuffed monster.

MS is a needed skill. Remove it and a whole lot of unbalanced situations may pop up.

/A
This is the only argument that is logical to me, which is why I suggested in the past that it should have a 100% chance to remove all ally buffs and nothing else, perhaps even a short dizzy added on top of that. However most people seem to dislike that idea because they want to be able to completely destroy an enemy with 1 spell.

[mind-trick]

idk but i do completely fine without ms. its not needed and only restricted to hammers. try casting ms on an archer or lock, its a pointless waste and he can escape afterwards. MS can and should only be used against other warriors, it being a warrior only spell lessens the impact although there is too much dps ''competition'' among barbs so id like to see ms be modified.
a spell's effectiveness totally depends on the situation you look at. eg kick is only op on a lone target as it cant be dispelled. imo ms isnt op, its just a broken spell

[oim]

If DI would be canceled by UM a lock could use DEBUFFS to stop uberbiffed barbs = no need for MS.

If def stance consumed mana per time = no need for MS.

[Iheartpancakes]

I think debuffing the caster is a bit harsh also. Just increase the mana consumption to a stupidly high amount or make it non-instant, and MS will (hopefully) only be used in extreme circumstances.

[Candyx]

....



Again you're saying it debuffs all buffs! Confuse stops all buffs being cast, for a duration of time.

It can't be dispelled because it doesn't have a *duration*, I'm sure what your point is in this, SC, lethal strike etc also can't be dispelled.

SOTW, sanc, precise block all prevent it.


Objectively if it has a 40 second cool down, but only a 50% chance of working then it has the effect of 80s between effective casts (on average ofc).

If you *choose* to use all your buffs against someone who has a blunt setup then you're choosing to run that risk. If you casts lots of crit buffs against an archer, then you better be prepared for them to cast escapist.

Relying on random chance is a part of this game, for better or for worse the game is built around random resists and evades.

Again, you've not convinced me that MS is stronger than all other spells, so it's not OP!

[Kyrenis]

Again you're saying it debuffs all buffs! Confuse stops all buffs being cast, for a duration of time.

It can't be dispelled because it doesn't have a *duration*
My point wasn't that it is supposed to have a duration, but the fact that it doesn't
All of the spells you are comparing it to are nearly as effective in certain situations but they can all be dispelled/prevented with DI.
SC, lethal strike etc also can't be dispelled.
If you read my post correctly, I also included that most OP spells that can't be dispelled are nullified by auras. Southcross will deal significantly less damage on someone with shieldwall while MS will have the same effect regardless.
SOTW, sanc, precise block all prevent it.
Sanc shouldn't count because you can't cast things on someone with sanc and they wouldn't have buffs anyways.
That leaves SoTW and PB, that means that only 3 classes are safe from MS(among other spells) for the duration. These also happen to be the classes that MS arguably has the least effect on.
If you *choose* to use all your buffs against someone who has a blunt setup then you're choosing to run that risk. If you casts lots of crit buffs against an archer, then you better be prepared for them to cast escapist.
The whole point of this thread is so we don't have to fear for our buffs whenever we want to initiate a fight with someone that happens to be using blunt.
There are times where you have to use all of your buffs in order to stay alive, but someone with blunt can still cut right through your defenses (and offenses) instantly.
Relying on random chance is a part of this game, for better or for worse the game is built around random resists and evades.
Why does it have to be a part of the game? It is probably one of the worst aspects of Regnum.
Again, you've not convinced me that MS is stronger than all other spells, so it's not OP!
Lol, even people that use it know how overpowered it is. If you can't see that I don't think we play the same game.

[Sentan]

Relying on random chance is a part of this game, for better or for worse the game is built around random resists and evades.


Why does it have to be a part of the game? It is probably one of the worst aspects of Regnum.

Lol, even people that use it know how overpowered it is. If you can't see that I don't think we play the same game.

You're right here. FK randomness.
MS should be changed, but not removed from the game.

something like this: Dispel Positive Powers for 5s, 7s, 9s, 12s, 15s; chance 100%; increase cooldown from 40s to 70s

[Candyx]

....

Random chance is an intentional feature of the game, evade is displayed in your character window for a reason. It might be a bad aspect of the game in your eyes but it's an aspect none the less.

You didn't realm answer my point of: If you're facing blunt Dave some buffs. It's almost as if you have a play style in mind and MS doesn't fit to it; IMO you should change your play style not the game.

Half the classes being able to prevent it seems like a nice balance to me. Also locks could skill alot of spell focus debuffs to increase they're chance of resisting it. People don't do this because MS isn't too OP.

Areas are great, they play an important role in the game, but having a spell that can cut through them is just as important.

Most of this is coming down to opinion, rather than fact. I get that you don't like MS, I don't like it either. But I see it's purpose in the game. How do you suggest a DI-ed UM-ed barb is handled? What about a WM knight on def stance with AoO?

If spamming MS is the problem just increase the mana cost. Don't play with things like CD.

[ieti]

...

The only reasonable way to prevent something to be spammed is to increase cooldown. People usually see spells recharging and they start to think when they will get spell available again. Raising mana cost is softer limit, because you can overcome this with other means. Cooldown simply forces you to wait and think more when to use it.

Speaking of mages to them MS works every time. As i play i see resist of this spell 1 of 15 - 20 times. Maxing stats to increase evade / resist rate is simply useless and loss of points / stats.

I know most of the rants abount MS are connected to DI. DI duration / cooldown was changed in a way that only one ally can be buffed. If you see DI-ed barb means that enemy conjus are without it. You can simply direct attacks on them and screw enemy more.

With addition of level 60 you can skill multiple trees on warrior, so you can be slash and switch weapons only for MS. There is no way to distinct who will cast MS on you.

I still think MS is needed spell in game. Spells need counters, so it is more fun to play. Well MS is little extreme against support classes, because they rely alot on their buffs to do their job properly.

[Iheartpancakes]

Well MS is little extreme against support classes, because they rely alot on their buffs to do their job properly.

That is exactly why MS is good. Breaking your enemies support classes means the rest will drop like flies. Either way, this debate could go on for a millennia.. NGD has heard the feedback people have to offer, I guess it's up to them what the next step is.

[kowocki]

" If you see DI-ed barb means that enemy conjus are without it. You can simply direct attacks on them and screw enemy more"

before the DI barb 2-hit you and send you to cs?

[Candyx]

" If you see DI-ed barb means that enemy conjus are without it. You can simply direct attacks on them and screw enemy more"

before the DI barb 2-hit you and send you to cs?

If only you could *see* a DI-ed barb! It seriously needs a constant animation.

[Iheartpancakes]

If only you could *see* a DI-ed barb! It seriously needs a constant animation.

While not really on topic, I fully agree with this. That split second you lose time trying to knock one down only to find they are DI'd could mean life or death. Not really fair imo.

[oim]

Use MS to be sure, he is not DI'ed.