question about knights and armor

[lorddais]

Am I misunderstanding the point of the class? I was to understand that knights could take the most damage because they got to wear the heaviest armor not just because they had constitution and life boosting skills in vanguard,

but it seems that the armor score doesn't make that much of a difference when I can increase my armor score by 80% with a lvl 4 caution and still receive similar damage and reduce an enemies armor by 80% by a lvl 4 taunt and not see much improvement in damage dealt.

Am I imagining this or does anyone else feel the same?

[Bully]

The strength of the knight is based on a hugh combination of things. The armor itself being only one part of the picture. They also have a higher maximum health points level than everyone else. Beyond that it's all about the skills training and the enhancement buffs and the players ability to use them effectively. One on one knights are very tough to beat. Mainly because it takes so long to beat down their health. But don't expect to be able to dive into a crowd at a fort war and mow everyone down. The knight is one of the hardest characters to play and be really effective.

[lorddais]

I think you missed my point an 80% increase or decrease in armor should be at least a very noticeable change I would think to only see a 25-50 point difference in damage dealt and received in a character class that has thousands of hitpoints doesn't seem to reflect that drastic of a change :/

I'm saying the armor points don't seem to count for as much as they should I've stood next to ppl I know had stronger and weaker armor than me and seen all receive similar damage from monsters in the area so my question becomes what do the armor points really stand for?

[misaccc]

I think you missed my point an 80% increase or decrease in armor should be at least a very noticeable change I would think to only see a 25-50 point difference in damage dealt and received in a character class that has thousands of hitpoints doesn't seem to reflect that drastic of a change :/

I'm saying the armor points don't seem to count for as much as they should I've stood next to ppl I know had stronger and weaker armor than me and seen all receive similar damage from monsters in the area so my question becomes what do the armor points really stand for?

can i ask u what lvl r u?on lower lvls there isnt much diference

[lorddais]

lvl 30 when I use caution lvl 4 my armor goes from about 490 to 800

edit: sorry for the late response was in game :D

[misaccc]

lvl 30 when I use caution lvl 4 my armor goes from about 490 to 800

edit: sorry for the late response was in game :D

hmmm 800 armor?that is how much i have:O
dunno when i cast it it lowers the dmg from mobs for atleast 80dmg

[lorddais]

you could be right I haven't got all the numbers to back this up was just asking if anyone felt or had noticed similar thank you for your replies just the same :D

[ByteMe]

Ok, I tend to agree. Armour doesn't seem to help much at all. I haven't played with caution much so can't comment there but do know that while leveling or looting I remove my armour to save repair costs. Without armour the hits I take are with 10-30 points of when I wear armour. It does seems like armour points aren't helping much.

Have other knights noticed this too?

[Valorius]

Im no knight, but i know when i cast my protection spell "evasive tactics", which boosts my armor class by x% points, it drastically reduces the damage i take from a hit. And i can tell you that compared to mages, my bow does about 70-100pts less dmg when shooting at a knight.

I would therefore conclude that your armor definitely has a pronounced effect. Plus, it looks COOL as hell. ;)

[darkcyde]

Does it drastically increase evades then? there's gotta be some reason to play knights...i'm just trying to find it hehe

[adrianpf]

lvl 30 when I use caution lvl 4 my armor goes from about 490 to 800

edit: sorry for the late response was in game :D

Hi!

You must check what damage your complete armor is good at, I.E:

Fighting an Aquantis (Piercing damage)

To notice less damage your armour should be "Very Good" to Piercing damage.

Test this matter and then tell me your results!

Regards!

[Bully]

Ok, I tend to agree. Armour doesn't seem to help much at all. I haven't played with caution much so can't comment there but do know that while leveling or looting I remove my armour to save repair costs. Without armour the hits I take are with 10-30 points of when I wear armour. It does seems like armour points aren't helping much.

Have other knights noticed this too?

:eek: You level in the nude???? :naughty:

[Boger]

Armor has much to do with DMG taken
Ive tested it with Twix a while ago
Got a Bad vs piercing dmg and a very good vs piercing sets
on the 1st case twix made me with his marks 200dmg, in the second case it was lowered to 140 (values are approx ofc)

[lorddais]

soon as the server comes back up I'll get some real numbers wanted to see if anyone else felt the same before I put the work in to find out the truth ;)

[NightTwix]

we shouldnt release too much knowledge ;)
but its clear that resistance kinds count more than armor points.

I also noticed that +armor spells work way better on my marks than on my knight.
while i never tested it extensively with my knight

[Boger]

we shouldnt release too much knowledge ;)
but its clear that resistance kinds count more than armor points.

I also noticed that +armor spells work way better on my marks than on my knight.
while i never tested it extensively with my knight

But I did, caution is only usefull untill you get AoO, not a big deal in it,
and as i noticed quite a while ago, resistances count way more than armor points themselfves.
Thats why my armor is a mix of 4 types ^^

[darkcyde]

So you guys are pretty much saying that imo the biggest reason to even choose a knight in the first place is mostly moot.

[adrianpf]

But I did, caution is only usefull untill you get AoO, not a big deal in it,
and as i noticed quite a while ago, resistances count way more than armor points themselfves.
Thats why my armor is a mix of 4 types ^^

New Caution is very useful, make a set of an armour that's good to Blunt and Piercing.

This new Caution hasn't speed penalization and recharge/duration are both in 60 seconds.

AoO is a skill that sooner or later will be modified (as we are discussing it).

Knight's problem is simple, lasts a lot, but what to do with that duration? Brainstorming is getting interesting!

Regards!

[ByteMe]

So you guys are pretty much saying that imo the biggest reason to even choose a knight in the first place is mostly moot.

No, not really. Knights are fun to play. They can stay alive a long time and absorb massive damage. Once the shields tree is adjusted some I see them getting even better. It's funny to get the attention of an entire army run out and get hit with everything in the book and walk back to your lines :biggrin: Guess I like being a tease :thumb_up:

[darkcyde]

I think that has more to do with the skills rather than the armor.

[sathilda]

Im no knight, but i know when i cast my protection spell "evasive tactics", which boosts my armor class by x% points, it drastically reduces the damage i take from a hit. And i can tell you that compared to mages, my bow does about 70-100pts less dmg when shooting at a knight.
I would therefore conclude that your armor definitely has a pronounced effect. Plus, it looks COOL as hell. ;)

Well if you do less damage on warlocks, that's because our lvl 50 tunic and the skull one have good resist against piercing. By experience, it's better to have a skull (lvl 40) than an apocalypse (lvl 46) on fort wars, while vs a barb it can be the opposite :)

I always switch armors depending on what i'm facing, and that's helpful.

And evasive tactics is very awesome ^^

[lorddais]

ok so here are the real numbers.

against a great gryphonite which is an orange hard monster for my level 30 knight

my armor ranks bad in slashing protection so this is a worst case scenario

armor score 494 with three consecutive hits results were

151
128
146

using the lvl 4 caution skill which increases armor points 70% not 80% as I had said earlier my armor score rose to 839 with 3 consecutive hits from the same monster netting

124
128
141

as you can see there is no real difference at all other than the 27 point variance in the first two numbers still not signifigant for an allmost 400 point gain in armor.

edit: these were all normal hits no criticals were involved

[adrianpf]

Thanks for the numbers! Now test this with Very Good Slashing Armour and post the numbers, please! (I tested this in lvl 50, but I want you to tell me this among lower levels, so that's why this is so important for me :biggrin:)

[lorddais]

to get the information you want I can fight a blunt damage monster which my armor is already good against rather than buying an entire new set of armor it will net the same results as if I had fought a slashing monster with good slashing protection expect results soon

[adrianpf]

to get the information you want I can fight a blunt damage monster which my armor is already good against rather than buying an entire new set of armor it will net the same results as if I had fought a slashing monster with good slashing protection expect results soon

Ok! The data would be welcome! This kind of tests are very important now for some changes near to come. Fight a Blunt mob and then tell me your results!

Regards!

[darkcyde]

Ok so there is a plus side to all this, it means i'm gonna start using berserk nonstop and fear none of the conseqences bwahahaha

oh wait i should of kept my evil plan quiet, dont wanna get NERFERED (where have i heard that before)

P.S I'm posting all in good fun, i'm actually sleep deprived and i get a little goofy, dont mind me. but yeah, berserk here i come!

[lorddais]

ok same setup against a huge ice golem same difficulty as before but with big difference in strength so he dealt more damage even with good blunt defense results are still valid

armor of 494

250
245
169

armor of 839

189
112
64

much better results here based on these numbers I would have to conclude the defense system looks at whether your armor can defend against the attack then applies the armor score.

this is backwards from most games and is actually faulty because the fact that someone is attacking with a sword rather than a hammer should not nearly completely negate full plate armor

I would suggest to the devs that they do damage by armor score then modify by attack type this would help fix the knight class giving it the high defense one would expect it to have in balance hp and status bonuses may need to be cut

these were still normal scores with no criticals

on a side note I don't understand why platemale would be better against piercing attacks than slashing attacks and even better yet against blunt damage

would expect plate to stand up in this order best to worst: slashing>blunt>piercing

slashing at plate male is hard because you have to be good enough to aim at the joints and straps where as a hammer can crush a man inside his armor and a hearty spear can penetrate the metal armor

remember we're not talking stainless steel here at best a good iron probably softer

[darkcyde]

I completely agree. Also has anyone tested whether armor rating has anything to do with evade chances? And I have a question for you Lorddais, was just wondering what your block chance is at your current lvl and if you find that blocking helps quite a bit or not so much, i've heard people say that they rarely block anything...and was just curious what your situation is.

[lorddais]

my blocking chance changes as I am constantly rearranging my points to find a better combination at the time of these tests my passive shield blocking bonus was 25% and the only time I had high evades/blocks/resistances was the second time against the great gryphonite

I believe it to be a fluke not based on my character as it was not represented in the other three passes and I have seen posts recently saying the patch has made blocks/evades/resists about a heads or tails game where you never know what you're gonna get monster could block all half or none of your attacks at any time

[darkcyde]

Alright thanks for the info

[adrianpf]

Armour system is Ok because it's applied to all subclasses and shouldn't be changed because it's working good.

Knights have a 1.4 bonification for his armour points (40% more) and the way to fix the ability to receive less damage and get better configs of armour, Knight armour items should be re-checked and make them better by allowing them to protect better in average (more good or very good values). I think this is about to come in some months whit Magical Items (I.E: Helmet with 5% element damage resist) that will allow better Knight armour config.

Regards!

[misaccc]

Nice kailer:)
i think knights should get 1+ good/normal resistance in armor...

[darkcyde]

So i'm guessing it has nothing to do with evades then?

[lorddais]

thank you for that explanation that's kinda what I had figured, but I still say a 30% negative value isn't good even the worst armor should offer SOME protection against the attack that it is worst at protecting against

if they insist on determining damage by attack type first then it should at least be the worst armor against its worst attack starts at 0% and everything else moves up from there

if the devs would use real world examples to come up with their numbers and what is weak vs what it would help them now in the balancing stage of the game as much of it would take care of itself

and a negative % for running around in the nude would take care of the ppl who say armor doesn't matter ;)

[magnet]

So i'm guessing it has nothing to do with evades then?

Evades have only to do with Dex and evades buffs; however you Knights have "Blocks" which depend on Shield, passive and Buffs.

[amade]

and a negative % for running around in the nude would take care of the ppl who say armor doesn't matter ;)

People without armor on are actually noticeably easier to kill. In fact, their difficulty rating drops as well. People who say armor doesn't matter are the sort of people I like to see in the opposing army ;)

Too bad armor weight doesn't affect evasion chance, that would make things a bit more dynamic. E.g. would you prefer to wear a lighter but less resistant armor for much higher evade chance or would you rather tank every single hit with heavy armor? Of course, this means a total revamp of our current armor system and inventory, so it's very unlikely to happen.

[Valorius]

Well if you do less damage on warlocks, that's because our lvl 50 tunic and the skull one have good resist against piercing. By experience, it's better to have a skull (lvl 40) than an apocalypse (lvl 46) on fort wars, while vs a barb it can be the opposite :)

I always switch armors depending on what i'm facing, and that's helpful.

And evasive tactics is very awesome ^^

What i was saying is that i do 70-100dmg more against mages than i do against knights. Sorry if i worded it in an unclear manner.

[-Edge-]

we shouldnt release too much knowledge ;)
but its clear that resistance kinds count more than armor points.


constitution is way more important than armour, Ive tested fur armour to my execution, it only does about 30% less damage I would say, I have 87 cons as a barb too tho. But thats the barbarian side,

if I find armour with constituion bonuses, I wear it...

[adrianpf]

So i'm guessing it has nothing to do with evades then?

Attributes help on these calculations:

High main attribute of class + High Dexterity = More Evasion.
High main attribute of class + High Inteligence = Best chance for skills to hit.
High main attribute of class + High Concentration = Best chance of critical hits.

For example in Knight sub-class main attribute is Constitution, so if you want to evade, now you now what to get ;)

[adrianpf]

Nice kailer:)
i think knights should get 1+ good/normal resistance in armor...

Thanks! I'm insisting in the Inner Private Balance forums for this to be taken on ;)

To resume: Knight endurance should be progressive (AoO should last more and protect less) so health goes down slowly but not fast when AoO finishes.

Knight sub-class is the most "near to balance" one, this feature I'm fighting for will make it near to that goal, and then some individual ally-aid skills will complete the goal!

Regards!

[misaccc]

Thanks! I'm insisting in the Inner Private Balance forums for this to be taken on ;)

To resume: Knight endurance should be progressive (AoO should last more and protect less) so health goes down slowly but not fast when AoO finishes.

Knight sub-class is the most "near to balance" one, this feature I'm fighting for will make it near to that goal, and then some individual ally-aid skills will complete the goal!

Regards!

well im not sure we'r mear balnace and about aoo:biggrin:
think aoo should get its duration longer but it doesent progress or something...45sec for aoo would be perfect
and shields r the category that needs most work cuz 1.protector is C R A P! 2.heroic presence is bugged 3.maybe the passives too but not sure...
and some slow slash weapons would be awsome:thumb_up:

[adrianpf]

well im not sure we'r mear balnace and about aoo:biggrin:
think aoo should get its duration longer but it doesent progress or something...45sec for aoo would be perfect
and shields r the category that needs most work cuz 1.protector is C R A P! 2.heroic presence is bugged 3.maybe the passives too but not sure...
and some slow slash weapons would be awsome:thumb_up:
I'll state some points that will make you think that Knight will be closer and closer to balance:

- Best Armour (what I was talking recently)
- AoO (Duration 60 sec. Damage reduce 60%)
- Protector (Allowing normal attacks, with attack speed reduction)
- Individual ally-aid skills (Unknock one ally, get hits made to a single ally transferred to you)

The slight problem is MegriM hearing me, sometimes I insist too much, I'll drive him mad :biggrin:

But am I right or not?

[misaccc]

I'll state some points that will make you think that Knight will be closer and closer to balance:

- Best Armour (what I was talking recently)
- AoO (Duration 60 sec. Damage reduce 60%)
- Protector (Allowing normal attacks, with attack speed reduction)
- Individual ally-aid skills (Unknock one ally, get hits made to a single ally transferred to you)

The slight problem is MegriM hearing me, sometimes I insist too much, I'll drive him mad :biggrin:

But am I right or not?

aoo shouldnt be 60% reduce it would be lame u wouldnt last 60sec with it if the enemy concentrates on u

protector would be better if its trashed and magic reboud implemented back but seems like only i twix and bog agree on that...

best armor is fine

and i guess the idividual skills would be nice.but about the dmg transfer not all dmg but something maybe like 50-70% would be ok...but then u cast that spell go in fort and rest lol

ps.ill post my suggestions a lil later

[adrianpf]

aoo shouldnt be 60% reduce it would be lame u wouldnt last 60sec with it if the enemy concentrates on u

protector would be better if its trashed and magic reboud implemented back but seems like only i twix and bog agree on that...

best armor is fine

and i guess the idividual skills would be nice.but about the dmg transfer not all dmg but something maybe like 50-70% would be ok...but then u cast that spell go in fort and rest lol

ps.ill post my suggestions a lil later

I also agree in Magical Rebound issue, so we are 4 now ;)

New AoO combined with New Caution and Better Armour will make us last longer than that 60 AoO seconds.

Remember... we must not be unkillable by only one skill, we must combine them and explore a little more our class to make it powerful.

And you know... with New Protector we'll have a second chance if everyone starts to throw everything to us and AoO finishes...

Try thinking balance in this way: Combination of things that derivate in the empowerment of one feature. In this case Defense, in other cases Attack.

Regards!

[misaccc]

I also agree in Magical Rebound issue, so we are 4 now ;)

New AoO combined with New Caution and Better Armour will make us last longer than that 60 AoO seconds.

Remember... we must not be unkillable by only one skill, we must combine them and explore a little more our class to make it powerful.

And you know... with New Protector we'll have a second chance if everyone starts to throw everything to us and AoO finishes...

Try thinking balance in this way: Combination of things that derivate in the empowerment of one feature. In this case Defense, in other cases Attack.

Regards!
i agree that we should explore our skills to become better.and think about how much mana u will use with aoo,caution and attack spells...

[adrianpf]

i agree that we should explore our skills to become better.and think about how much mana u will use with aoo,caution and attack spells...

I'm not meaning simple PvP, I'm talking about RvR...

Mana amount in a Knight needs a revision too, due to it's defensive nature, but leaving this appart, when I buff myself for damage and buff my friends, thanking to mages around me I am fully filled with mana.

Mana is to be fixed after skills work. Some time ago there were not so many skills to use because most of them didn't work. Now a lot more do, and a lot more will be added, so mana should be checked.

I repeat. Balancing must be looked from this certain point of view:

- First, functionality.
- Then, relation between skills (that one doesn't overpower too much another)
- Finally, adjust endurance values.

So, in this order: Modify aiding skills, modify buffing skills, modify attack skills. Check relation. Then modify endurance skills and adjust mana and health.

That would be it. You must never think of one isolated change, just think in the whole picture!

I think this is a good way to face changes, maybe I'm wrong, but to tell this... this changes should be implemented first :biggrin:

Regards!

[Heglin]

Knights got a bit better with the last update and i think the AoO 60% for 60 sec is a good idea. With that, the bigger block chance from the last update and a new (better) caution knights will be harder to kill.

[NightTwix]

I'll state some points that will make you think that Knight will be closer and closer to balance:

- Best Armour (what I was talking recently)
- AoO (Duration 60 sec. Damage reduce 60%)
- Protector (Allowing normal attacks, with attack speed reduction)
- Individual ally-aid skills (Unknock one ally, get hits made to a single ally transferred to you)

The slight problem is MegriM hearing me, sometimes I insist too much, I'll drive him mad :biggrin:

But am I right or not?

I think that your proposed Protector and AoO together would be too much.
That would be Steel Skin combined with Spell Elude only with less weaknesses

Magic Rebound would be so cool

another idea i had was a certain amount of mana that cant be stolen from knights (passive spell)

[lorddais]

in the mean time if we are to depend on what type of attack the armor defends against I would like to see a better selection by attack by lvl

for example right now when a knight reaches 27 he gets chain good against slash

the next time we see an armor good against slash isn't until sudang at lvl 37

so at lvl 36 if I want to fight gryphons I should be wearing lvl 27 armor? get real

[adrianpf]

another idea i had was a certain amount of mana that cant be stolen from knights (passive spell)

Explain a little more... gimme some values :biggrin: I like this idea, due to mages that use Energy Borrow and leave us empty of mana, just useful as nothing ;)

Mana protection would be something interesting.

And for AoO and Protector at the same time, yeah, we would be godlike that way, but at athe same time it would be lame to use them both, because I think that Protector is a skill that should be used when things get hard.

I'd like to test this changes, so I hope MegriM agrees on some of the topics I mention :biggrin:

Regards!

[misaccc]

Explain a little more... gimme some values :biggrin: I like this idea, due to mages that use Energy Borrow and leave us empty of mana, just useful as nothing ;)

Mana protection would be something interesting.

And for AoO and Protector at the same time, yeah, we would be godlike that way, but at athe same time it would be lame to use them both, because I think that Protector is a skill that should be used when things get hard.

I'd like to test this changes, so I hope MegriM agrees on some of the topics I mention :biggrin:

Regards!

yea we all love twixes suggestion!:)
and protector is only worth when at lvl 5 but who is gonna max shields???
and you said in 1 of your previus posts that caution+aoo 60sec would make us good at RvR but then im not sure we wouldnt rule 1on1

[adrianpf]

and protector is only worth when at lvl 5 but who is gonna max shields???
and you said in 1 of your previus posts that caution+aoo 60sec would make us good at RvR but then im not sure we wouldnt rule 1on1

Shields branch will be interesting when area buffs become fixed, and the blocking feature of the Knight is working better with this last update (It's what I experienced).

And sadly, is difficult for the Knight to rule on 1on1. As a warrior and meleé class, we should hit harder for this to happen, but we sacrifice hit for defense, so... it's hard to tell. Main problem in 1on1, for example, against mages is Energy Borrow, so Twix's suggestion is indeed very interesting combined with all the others I stated.

Regards!

[Boger]

The passive protecting your mana (my idea of it)
Skill tree Vanguard:
1st level 100 Mana reserved
2nd level 150 Mana
3rd level 200 Mana
4th 350 mana
5th 500 mana

500 is not that much, and making it on higher more powerfull than on the levels before will make ppl want to use more points in it

And I though of something like a Anti MoD for knights, or anti knockdown on a area, but that would need some longer discussions

And sadly, is difficult for the Knight to rule on 1on1.

Well sorry Kailer, but I can beat every class with my knight on a PvP, hunters are a bit problematic, but belive me, they have more stress cause of us ;)

[adrianpf]

The passive protecting your mana (my idea of it)
Skill tree Vanguard:
1st level 100 Mana reserved
2nd level 150 Mana
3rd level 200 Mana
4th 350 mana
5th 500 mana

500 is not that much, and making it on higher more powerfull than on the levels before will make ppl want to use more points in it

I like it! And 500 would be enough for AoO ;)

A little increase in mana and this passive will allow us to work better during wars or skirmishes, I just want to know if this happens to you also: Sometimes my endurance is high, but I run out of things to do than just some normal hits and South Cross or similar...

So, dou you agree that we need more ally-aiding skills to complete this defensive class?

[Boger]

I like it! And 500 would be enough for AoO ;)

A little increase in mana and this passive will allow us to work better during wars or skirmishes, I just want to know if this happens to you also: Sometimes my endurance is high, but I run out of things to do than just some normal hits and South Cross or similar...

So, dou you agree that we need more ally-aiding skills to complete this defensive class?

Ive added an EDIT to my post for defence ;)

EDIT:
And I though of something like a Anti MoD for knights, or anti knockdown on a area, but that would need some longer discussions

[adrianpf]

Well sorry Kailer, but I can beat every class with my knight on a PvP, hunters are a bit problematic, but belive me, they have more stress cause of us ;)

Ahhh Bog! I can beat every subclass with my knight, but only in PvPs, not in 1on1s

I'll explain, the other day in the experimental server we were doing some tests and I played as the knight, I won after Jenofonte (Hunter) Ferraje (Knight) Drakogrox (Marksman) and Airasumi (Conjurer). The warlock (Insekto) won because of taking all my mana away :biggrin:

So, I say sadly, because in 1on1 (You get yourself in the way of someone alone) if they catch us unprepared we don't have too much to react properly.

I can tell by the way that you play your Knight that we have similar attitudes. So you can understand why I liked that mana passive protection ;)

Yeah, we fulfill them with stress... wait for this to become directly in fear Muahahahaa (?)

[Boger]

Ahhh Bog! I can beat every subclass with my knight, but only in PvPs, not in 1on1s

I'll explain, the other day in the experimental server we were doing some tests and I played as the knight, I won after Jenofonte (Hunter) Ferraje (Knight) Drakogrox (Marksman) and Airasumi (Conjurer). The warlock (Insekto) won because of taking all my mana away :biggrin:

So, I say sadly, because in 1on1 (You get yourself in the way of someone alone) if they catch us unprepared we don't have too much to react properly.

I can tell by the way that you play your Knight that we have similar attitudes. So you can understand why I liked that mana passive protection ;)

Yeah, we fulfill them with stress... wait for this to become directly in fear Muahahahaa (?)

well, I still think that even when the enemy has an upperhand of a sneak attack, only hunters can be a pain.

[adrianpf]

Ive added an EDIT to my post for defence ;)

In Spanish forums I've been talking a lot of this skills.

Anti MoD was rejected by a lot of people, but that thing about area anti-knockdown would be a nice replacement for "Heroic Presence".

Values were stated like this:

Area 10 - Duration: 60 sec. - Cooldown: 180 sec.
Lvl 1: 40% Knockdown resistance.
Lvl 2: 50% Knockdown resistance.
Lvl 3: 60% Knockdown resistance.
Lvl 4: 70% Knockdown resistance.
Lvl 5: 80% Knockdown resistance.

This would be great against those well coordinated "Terror of Sultar" killer attacks.

[adrianpf]

well, I still think that even when the enemy has an upperhand of a sneak attack, only hunters can be a pain.

The only ones that don't give us a lot of trouble are Marksmen, but mages (except support conjus) and Hunters can give us good 1on1 fights with good chances for them to win.

I think that with hunters theres a big mistake with attacking us near our range... SoW and Low Profile combined can make them send us their pet and then use "Dirty Fighting" and then escape easily with their 15% speed passive.

Hunters are a pain in the ass, and they can be this without any effort :biggrin:

[Boger]

But a hunter in a restricted fight area is weak, only a nice suprising tactic can make him win

[adrianpf]

But a hunter in a restricted fight area is weak, only a nice suprising tactic can make him win

:biggrin: I love make them run around rocks.. they can never tell when I can turn around and face them... as they run faster, become chasers more than chased and then is when they fall in the trap :sifflote:

I'd like more rocks in ZG :ohill:

[misaccc]

:biggrin: I love make them run around rocks.. they can never tell when I can turn around and face them... as they run faster, become chasers more than chased and then is when they fall in the trap :sifflote:

I'd like more rocks in ZG :ohill:

lol thats my tactics...trees work fine too:clapclap:

[adrianpf]

lol thats my tactics...trees work fine too:clapclap:

:biggrin: But Alsius trees are so thin :ohill: That's why I love rocks! :thumb_up:

[bigjim]

Well, let me fight you with my marksmen if you don't think we are a challenge. Lvl 5 death sentence along with other skills, and a knight is not that hard, but when Knights put army of one on on; I start to pee my pants if I am lower health. :ohill:

[misaccc]

:biggrin: But Alsius trees are so thin :ohill: That's why I love rocks! :thumb_up:

lol everything that blocks missiles is good:)
back on topic:we shuld really get that mana preserve passive
and u say block works good again?ill try it

[adrianpf]

Well, let me fight you with my marksmen if you don't think we are a challenge.

I never said that! How could I think that way... I just stated that they can be beaten sometimes. And sure... AoO is frightening :biggrin:

back on topic:we shuld really get that mana preserve passive
and u say block works good again?ill try it

Yeap, It will be hard to get, but I'll fight for it, at least only to be tested in Amun.

Regards!

[misaccc]

I never said that! How could I think that way... I just stated that they can be beaten sometimes. And sure... AoO is frightening :biggrin:



Yeap, It will be hard to get, but I'll fight for it, at least only to be tested in Amun.

Regards!

ok ill support:thumb_up:

[NightTwix]

Explain a little more... gimme some values :biggrin: I like this idea, due to mages that use Energy Borrow and leave us empty of mana, just useful as nothing ;)

Mana protection would be something interesting.

And for AoO and Protector at the same time, yeah, we would be godlike that way, but at athe same time it would be lame to use them both, because I think that Protector is a skill that should be used when things get hard.

I'd like to test this changes, so I hope MegriM agrees on some of the topics I mention :biggrin:

Regards!

i suggested it in the knights balance thread (back in september): http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12624&highlight=preserve

theres an imbalance of mages vs knights.
The thing is you simply steal all the knights mana and constantly leave him without.
Thats the basic tactic how to win against a knight 90% of the time (at least).
After he has no mana left you can either keep him on distance or cast shields/soulkeeper/steel skin to prevent damage from basic hits.
In the meantime you cast damagespells until its over.

What knights need is a passive spell that enables them to preserve mana. So that theres a minimum amount of mana that cant be stolen.
like 50,100,150,200,250 or even 100,200,300,400,500 depending on the level.

That would force the mages to use more sophisticated tactics and spells (like dizzy, slow, know stun) and not just the quite "cheap" mana stealing and finishing

[Valorius]

But a hunter in a restricted fight area is weak, only a nice suprising tactic can make him win

Not true as long as you have escapist, as long as the area is at least -somewhat- open. Anything smaller than the inside of a fort would present real problems for the hunter though.

[wakim42]

I'll state some points that will make you think that Knight will be closer and closer to balance:

- Best Armour (what I was talking recently)
- AoO (Duration 60 sec. Damage reduce 60%)
- Protector (Allowing normal attacks, with attack speed reduction)
- Individual ally-aid skills (Unknock one ally, get hits made to a single ally transferred to you)

The slight problem is MegriM hearing me, sometimes I insist too much, I'll drive him mad :biggrin:

But am I right or not?

These changes sounds really interesting to me. About the armor, as i already told in another post, my main concern is that the system make them better against low hits and worse against high hits (since armor absorbs an equivalent given amount of dmg).

The individual ally-aid-skills seem very useful to me since it will not make knights too dependent of the fact they are targeted or not to be useful.


Area 10 - Duration: 60 sec. - Cooldown: 180 sec.
Lvl 1: 40% Knockdown resistance.
Lvl 2: 50% Knockdown resistance.
Lvl 3: 60% Knockdown resistance.
Lvl 4: 70% Knockdown resistance.
Lvl 5: 80% Knockdown resistance.

This seems way too powerful to me. I'd make duration 20 or 30 and resistance lvl 5 to 60% at very most (unstackable) (else 3 knights could easily makes all knockdown totally useless)

For the mana protection, i prefer to see other changes first (especially armor) and then we'd see if its really needed.

[adrianpf]

Yeap, every value can be changed! But I'm glad we agree on the basis of the suggested changes. Knights are going through a rough time, and this modifications will help him play his role. As most of the changes are ally-aid aimed, no big unbalancement will be made. I'm just waiting for the day I can test them in Amun :biggrin:

I'll keep working on this!

@Twix: You're idea is great and will be sticking to my plans of Knight improvement. ;)

[ByteMe]

I really like the idea of the area that allies resist knock, could be very useful, although the % chance seems high. Maybe max of 50%?

Nice work :thumb_up:

[misaccc]

If only megrim would read this thread:/

[adrianpf]

I really like the idea of the area that allies resist knock, could be very useful, although the % chance seems high. Maybe max of 50%?

Nice work :thumb_up:

Yes! 50% would be good too... because lowering duration would make it useless due to area knocking from enemies, that are varied (Terror of Sultar, Warrior Areas).

Thank you all for your support, I'm making a report on this to send it to MegriM. :biggrin:

If only megrim would read this thread:/

When I finish the report, I'll put this Thread as a starter ;)