vital surrender

[NightTwix]

ok im fed up with the conjurer spell Vital Surrender.

For those who dont know the spell: The conjurer sacrifices his his life (he appears at the save) and revives in return a certain amount of dead allies (depending on the lvl of the spell).

Its in the game for some months now and i cant recall any situation where this spell was of any use. conjurers are the last men standing anyway and when a fight is lost it makes NO SENSE AT ALL to revive a few remaining fellows.
On the other hand me and a lot of other people died unnecessary because a conjurer casted it.
You lie there and watch the battle and suddenly you are back up in the middle of a gazillion enemies just to give them rp once again!
Without the conj to heal you.

This spell is of no practical use, its only a cheap escapespell for egoistic conjurers

I want to emphasize this: This is a hostile spell! And it has to go!
There is also no way to tune it to make it better. Its broken by design.

and its not the first time i complain about it and im not the only one:
http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12511&highlight=vital+surrender
http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11208&highlight=vital+surrender
http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16768&highlight=vital+surrender
http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15776&highlight=vital+surrender

in other news: this spell is bugged
1) it doesnt give a message in the logfile. maybe thats good cause i would bite the conjurers head off, if i find out who uses it all the time
2) it has an immense range. sometimes i lie very far off from any conj or fort and i still get back up on my feet by this spell

[ncvr]

I agree....but which spell did it replace in the first place? I forgot.

[ByteMe]

Hey NT,

The best use of vital surrender to screw your freinds is in the pozo. Have a bunch of your freinds jump in after and elf. Kill the elf and then click die. The conjurer waits until someone is dead and then clicks vital surrender. Now you are rezzed again in the bottom of the hole and forced to suicide again. Now after you die the second time you get the added benefit of 10% necro and the conjurer got away with zero becasue they died "helping" their freinds...

Yes, that has happened to me more than once!

[ncvr]

Hey NT,

The best use of vital surrender to screw your freinds is in the pozo. Have a bunch of your freinds jump in after and elf. Kill the elf and then click die. The conjurer waits until someone is dead and then clicks vital surrender. Now you are rezzed again in the bottom of the hole and forced to suicide again. Now after you die the second time you get the added benefit of 10% necro and the conjurer got away with zero becasue they died "helping" their freinds...

Yes, that has happened to me more than once!
LOL

Anyway, there should be an option one whether or not you are rezzed by it.

[Wyatt]

Vital Surrender: Vital surrender is working correctly, you dont have to have someone selected. We will add a messenge informing of who was revived. For the moment it wont suffer ajustments. Maybe more ahead in the development.

Regards

[mann2411]

wow i never knew that rps were so precious to some that they dont even want to try anymore in case of (not losing rps) but letting others gain rps
so theres a few times when its been useless if theres one time when it is useful then itll be a half decent spell course your not gonna know that if you dont try when you get rezzed:cuac:

[ncvr]

wow i never knew that rps were so precious to some that they dont even want to try anymore in case of (not losing rps) but letting others gain rps
so theres a few times when its been useless if theres one time when it is useful then itll be a half decent spell course your not gonna know that if you dont try when you get rezzed:cuac:
Vital Surrender is often used as an escape for some conjus when the situation looks bad. It's not the fact that the rezzed people give away rp again, it's that the conj is selfish.

[DemonMonger]

conjurers are selfish in nature to begin with... they want to leech off your efforts.... with heals... and defence spells... and now they want the last laugh in battle....

[makarios68]

LOL

Anyway, there should be an option one whether or not you are rezzed by it.

Yes this would solve the problem i think.

[_dracus_]

For me the problem is up to the conjuror using this spell after all regnum is about playing as a team. If they want to do that at the end of a battle it's really bad for your team and you have to suffer of it.

I already experienced a vital surrender reviving at samal, it was oh my god why didn't i click on the rez button before.

[magnet]

Each time you are rezzed, there should be a pop-up menu you have 10s to answer:

"xxxx tries to revive you with (Spell, Level)
Benefits: (hp, buffs given)

Accept / Refuse"

As for Vital Surrender, it did help me ONCE and yet we couldn't win (but I killed 3-4 before dying again). But I do agree this spell sucks and is seriously flawed, I had a replacement proposal: (180s cooldown) Heal Ally area 10, 450-550 mana, in exchange leaves the conjurer with 1 HP, can be cast IN Sanctuary. (value by levels same as Heal Ally)

[mann2411]

Vital Surrender is often used as an escape for some conjus when the situation looks bad. It's not the fact that the rezzed people give away rp again, it's that the conj is selfish.
or maybe he sees the fact that "oh no all of the warriors and archers are down and only a conjurer who does not have a summon or many offensive spells maybe i should give my life so three others can live and maybe kill the people that are attacking."
yer a conjurer gives his/her life to save three people and he's selfish?
the reason conjurers use this spell is cause they see and point in exhanging a not so strong person for a few ones that could potientially do dmg

[ncvr]

or maybe he sees the fact that "oh no all of the warriors and archers are down and only a conjurer who does not have a summon or many offensive spells maybe i should give my life so three others can live and maybe kill the people that are attacking."
yer a conjurer gives his/her life to save three people and he's selfish?
the reason conjurers use this spell is cause they see and point in exhanging a not so strong person for a few ones that could potientially do dmg
Yes, that does make him selfish. He doesn't give rp if he casts the spell, but the people who he rezzes do give rp again. And no, it's not the fact that they give rp, it's the fact that the conjuror made them give rp, so don't try argue that rp means nothing. To some people, rp does mean something.

[Valorius]

Yes, that does make him selfish. He doesn't give rp if he casts the spell, but the people who he rezzes do give rp again. And no, it's not the fact that they give rp, it's the fact that the conjuror made them give rp, so don't try argue that rp means nothing. To some people, rp does mean something.
Some ignis Mage used this today by stone to weasel himself an escape. He revived some poor "noob" bastard in the process.

Then that guy didn't give rp when he died either. LOL...

[Drah]

I'd prefer a spell where you could give an ally effectively a very, very short burst of something similar to sanctuary, maybe 3-7 seconds long depending on points invested.

There have been several times where I'm trying to throw as much healing at the enemy's primary target and it's been futile because they've got 4-5 people attacking them and they've been stunned/knocked-down/etc... and a few seconds of invulnerability might just give them enough time to survive and make it back behind our lines. - I reckon 7 seconds max with a high cooldown and reasonably high mana cost would stop it from screwing with balance too much. (maybe 300+ mana and a 3 minute cooldown!?)

Just an idea because I never use Vital surrender, it's an interesting spell but mostly useless.

The one downside I would see to this is that people who didn't want or need it cast on them would get pissed off if it stopped them from being able to attack.... hmm, maybe I need to give this more thought!! ;) - Maybe 50% resistance and retain the ability to attack?

[DkySven]

There's already a spell who does that, friendly shielding.

[DkySven]

Ok, my fault, I should have looked better to the description.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

getting angry because you "give rp"? pff

I don't really see such a great use of this spell either, if there's a mass of people and three gets revived, they won't last long anyway without conjurers.

A better suggestion for the spell would be to let the conjurer be revived where he is, but he is unable to do ANYTHING but lie on the ground dead for 2 minutes, this time will be lowered if they level the spell up, 30 seconds or 1 minute should be level 5.

@Drah: it sounds like a useful spell, but then it should be made sure that it won't cancel any spells (barb using lightning strike or warlock using terror)

@katiechan: reviving someone just to let them escape is really dull imo. But why revive someone to let them "run away" if someone is revived it's to fight :p

[Angelwinged_Devil]

It's what Hunters do. If someone revives me, and it's a hopeless battle, staying to die isn't going to do any good.
Whereas if I escape, and I get to, say, pp bridge or the like, there's often reinforcements there.
yeah, but reviving someone when the battle is about to finish just so they can escape... they might as well press resurrect and appear at the stone instead of taking a chance :). It's doing work which could have been avoided

[NightTwix]

Vital Surrender: Vital surrender is working correctly, you dont have to have someone selected. We will add a messenge informing of who was revived. For the moment it wont suffer ajustments. Maybe more ahead in the development.

Regards

well its working, except for the bugs i listed.
you agreed on the missing message, but the range should be limited too so that people can resurrect quickly when they see a conji casting it.
But you can only guess its boing casted anyway, cause it looks like a usual ressurect.
There should be at least an unique aura while the spell gets casted or i like the idea of a popup that asks for permission to revive.

to the main problem:
This spell has no practical use. Instead its harmful. And if its not for the rp, then its for the realm statistics, repaircosts, pride you lose
Why is there a spell that causes only negative effects?

the only positive thing i heared until now was:

While I have had bad experiences with Vital Surrender, there has also been occasions where it has saved my life.

I've escaped several fort wars because a Conjuror cast this spell [...]

So, the spell gives you a chance to escape after you have been defeated.
clicking the ressurect button ensures that you come away. Thats makes no sense and its not what the spell should do.

the spell is supposed to do this:
The conjurer sacrifiers his life to revive a few allies so that they can fight on.

But this isnt how the spell is used.
While the spell might technically be working as it is supposed to be, it is not used that way at all. And it will never.
I happily repeat myself that this spell is broken by design and the past months prooved it

I wouldnt care if it was yet another useless spell, but as it is harmful it should go.
please megrim, rethink that spell. I know you implemented it with good intentions (of course) but it simply has no practical use

[_dracus_]

What can I say... I like to escape? :p It's an ego thing, I guess. Not that I have one of those.

IMHO it's an hunter thing (maybe shared by some barbs).

[Godofsilver]

conjurers are selfish in nature to begin with... they want to leech off your efforts.... with heals... and defence spells... and now they want the last laugh in battle....
There's this thing, it's called a "Good conjurer", who, MAYBE, just maybe, wants to help. There aren't many of them out there, but they're not in it JUST for a share of your rp :angel2:

[LuthienNenharma]

There's this thing, it's called a "Good conjurer", who, MAYBE, just maybe, wants to help. There aren't many of them out there, but they're not in it JUST for a share of your rp :angel2:
When I started to play my Warlock I realized that there are not enough good Conjurers. There were so many conversations about the Conjurer and now I see, that not just Warjurers are the problem. Many Conjurer dont give enough mana and dont revive quick enough.
Sometimes mana is better than health. Watch your party, give everyone enough mana. Synergy Bond on lvl 3 is enough to make many ppl happy :)

A Conjurer should leave the war, when everyone is dead and he cant help anymore. If he wants to have some "fun" he can start to run, but most of the time he wont survive. If there is no one to support the Conjurer can die :o

With my Conjurer I used Vital Surrender a few times.
There are some moments where you can use this spell. To be honest, there are not enough moments. In fort wars they are only useful when you are busy and need to go to the save to log out (oh, pls dont to this :cuac: ).
In hunts the spell is more useful. If you can revive very strong ppl or some conjurers, if there is not as much enemy, ...

An other spell would be more useful, because there are not enough moments for casting Vital Surrender.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

vital surrender CAN be useful, but I strongly disagree that there should be a popup which asks if you want to be revived.
If it's in the middle of a battle and you need a fast revival who doesn't want to get revived?

As I said before, vital surrender CAN be useful, you just need to use it with some thought

[daehenob]

IMO the spell is too expensive points-wise to be of much use (for a lvl 45 conj, anyway ;) ). There are definitely situations where it could be useful, but as LuthienNenharma said, far and few between.

Every skill tree has its useless spells though; it sucks that this particular one can be (mis)used to frustrate fellow realm-mates. Sorry, NightTwix. :*(

[Valour]

I've only had one good use for it...

When there are no enemies around, two (safe) dead people wanting to be ressurected (after a battle) and me wanting to go offline.

[mann2411]

Yes, that does make him selfish. He doesn't give rp if he casts the spell, but the people who he rezzes do give rp again. And no, it's not the fact that they give rp, it's the fact that the conjuror made them give rp, so don't try argue that rp means nothing. To some people, rp does mean something.
necro when you get killed you do not give rps ok you do not lose rps you keep the current amount of rps that you had before you died dying because of someone means nothing so the other realm gains what maybe 1rp if the person is lucky to get a hit because the fort may be packed with enemies who all attack you immediatly and you die within one second wow thats 1-3 rps given to the people that attacked you.

rps=data=not real=affects you in no way possible in real life unless you become so obssesed with the other realm gaining 1-2 rps that you let it affect your mind.


necro if your really that obbessed with some data writing that just said you gained 3 rps why aren't you lvl 50 so you are more effective in war therefore getting more rps?

close this thread ngd
as i said before when you die you do not lose rps the other side simply gains rps necro they aint fricking selfish they do it because they can see a point in dying so that three more may live.

also another question
why the f*** are you people lying on the ground and not pressing ressurect if you dont wanna be rezzed on the spot? obviouslly you wanna be rezzed so they assume that you guys wanna be rezzed all it is is the other realm gaining rps

have you people become so obssesed with the enemies gaining rps that you dont even want to be rezzed by conjurers which is something that they were designed to do
hear that conjurers dont rezz anyonre anymore OK cause these people dont like life

[Angelwinged_Devil]

also another question
why the f*** are you people lying on the ground and not pressing ressurect if you dont wanna be rezzed on the spot? obviouslly you wanna be rezzed so they assume that you guys wanna be rezzed all it is is the other realm gaining rps

Some do it to watch the fight :)

[mann2411]

to see their friends and clanmates get slaughtered by others lol

[ncvr]

necro when you get killed you do not give rps ok you do not lose rps you keep the current amount of rps that you had before you died dying because of someone means nothing so the other realm gains what maybe 1rp if the person is lucky to get a hit because the fort may be packed with enemies who all attack you immediatly and you die within one second wow thats 1-3 rps given to the people that attacked you.

rps=data=not real=affects you in no way possible in real life unless you become so obssesed with the other realm gaining 1-2 rps that you let it affect your mind.


necro if your really that obbessed with some data writing that just said you gained 3 rps why aren't you lvl 50 so you are more effective in war therefore getting more rps?

close this thread ngd
as i said before when you die you do not lose rps the other side simply gains rps necro they aint fricking selfish they do it because they can see a point in dying so that three more may live.

also another question
why the f*** are you people lying on the ground and not pressing ressurect if you dont wanna be rezzed on the spot? obviouslly you wanna be rezzed so they assume that you guys wanna be rezzed all it is is the other realm gaining rps

have you people become so obssesed with the enemies gaining rps that you dont even want to be rezzed by conjurers which is something that they were designed to do
hear that conjurers dont rezz anyonre anymore OK cause these people dont like life
Read my post completely please...

For the third time, I do not care, they do!

[NightTwix]

bla bla bla nevermind

[mann2411]

yer im kinda over it now replace it or whatever ngd
now if youll excuse me "that 70's show" is on. woo