Conjuror shortage

[Mikan]

Deleted...

[misaccc]

must be the time u play...early in the mornin there is no conjus in syrtis.after we have many

[makarios68]

Because of this, I have accidentally gotten mad at Warlocks for not healing because I thought they were Conjurors, when in fact we don't have any Conjurors at all most of the time.

It's possible you hit the nail on the head with this comment.

People get mad at conjurers a lot.

[GIGO305]

u ppl started bitching on us conjus and we got sick of it because we were saw by our healing abilitys and not our war power, ill let the world know now that i killed a chaleging barberian 1vs1 full helath ect she came on to me and ppl been telling us TO heal them i barely see a pls if i do i look for them and another reason we DNT! like you its because u guys rush in and im tired of wasting sanctuary to revive some random artard for thinking hes smart or sometimes we just cant clic on u or get to so revive ur self. and YEA all mages can give mana and buffs as a conju i acept the haling abilitys and consicuances but danmit im not reviving ppl if u died in stone the save is right there danmit


I TOLD U SO (in conjus on strike forum)

want forgiveness make a conju get him into a high lvl and take him to war see how u like it PTs, we fight because thats how we get our respect, by fighting we get most RP and XP because we are built for that healing is a bonus and for using it we get liltle or no RP/XP


respect the conjus or die and stay dead!

[makarios68]

but their Zarkit keeps me from being able to shoot the enemies--especially dwarves.


Depending on your point of view, this can be really good...:biggrin:

More zarkits plz syrtis conjurors!!

[GIGO305]

If some of us don't rush the enemy it'll just be a standoff forever. Someone has to take the charge.
Yes, we die, but at least it gives our guys a chance to overrun them.

Usually, when we do this, we don't expect to be revived, because if it fails the battle is probably over anyway.


lol im quoting u quoting me

ok i mean the random moron that runs for no reason no army of one gets in the midle of them dies instantly and stays to get revied when we manages to do it by axidental vital surender my last 10sec in batle i hear no tnx but i see that same idiot (nameless for a reason) run overthere repeating the RP whore cycle

and yea speaking of warlocks what happened to terror even i am using tremor WTF get usefull and plz stop training buffs all mages leave it till lvl 50, im wiiling to tell any SYRTIS conju 2 perfect combinations for war depending on how u go,1 living shiled making allys un beatable 2 kick ass war machine like this i wuped a hard warlock because idiot buffed the zarkit he stole from me, leave the buffs till ur lvl 50 for now lvl u cant get combination right at 49 neither

[misaccc]

u shouldnt use a zarkit....

[amade]

Hm, in Alsius we've been having this problem for ages. We consider 2-3 (support) conjurers to be a blessing. 10 or so is typically found on the enemy's side :P

I have my own view on how people should play, but I'm not going to tell them how to play unless they ask for it. Just as long as they don't burden their team mates I'm cool with it.

[ByteMe]

I've been playing a conju that just made lvl 41 tonight and here's why conjus aren't playing as support anymore. During the entire lvling process they get rewarded for fighting, zarkits and hard hitting spells. A conju get almost no xp for trying to help allies level. Now when this conju hits the WZ they continue to play this way and fight instead of heal. At level 39 I retrained to be pure support, HA major mistake! For two days I followed groups around and kept them full of mana and health. Most in the groups lvled during this time. My XP moved, but less than an inch. I went back and retrained and can now level non-stop and my XP flies up! Until conjus are rewarded by supporting leveling allies, they will continue to play as a warjurer.

just my 2 cents...

[e30G]

Yes ByteMe is correct. A lot of people play warjurer because they got used to it while leveling. I'm guilty of that since I mostly leveled solo. It took time for me to weed out my attack powers and finally go full support (thanks to Refetan, Kim and Ravion for letting me see the light).

Here are some reasons I am playing less:

As far as level 50 conjurers go, what much can they do? Conjurers aren't that effective in hunts IMHO (or I just don't enjoy running around much) because they have limited or no firepower and are slow. Most hunting parties have a tendency to leave their conjurers. Only a few players actually think about their team mates and wait for their mages.

Conjurers are at their best in fort wars IMHO but how often does that happen lately? The lag isn't helping either.

[e30G]

u ppl started bitching on us conjus and we got sick of it because we were saw by our healing abilitys and not our war power, ill let the world know now that i killed a chaleging barberian 1vs1 full helath ect she came on to me and ppl been telling us TO heal them i barely see a pls if i do i look for them and another reason we DNT! like you its because u guys rush in and im tired of wasting sanctuary to revive some random artard for thinking hes smart or sometimes we just cant clic on u or get to so revive ur self. and YEA all mages can give mana and buffs as a conju i acept the haling abilitys and consicuances but danmit im not reviving ppl if u died in stone the save is right there danmit


I TOLD U SO (in conjus on strike forum)

want forgiveness make a conju get him into a high lvl and take him to war see how u like it PTs, we fight because thats how we get our respect, by fighting we get most RP and XP because we are built for that healing is a bonus and for using it we get liltle or no RP/XP


respect the conjus or die and stay dead!

If that's how some of you think, I am sorry for you. The game is all about playing in a team, and Conjurers have their roles. The day you guys went on strike was actually a blessing. We were playing much more effectively at war.

[mann2411]

gigo im sorry but thats bullcrud
wow you heal every time at war thats what you were built for you might not get as many rps/xp but consider this
what about hunters we waste a hell of alot of mana tracking do we get rps/xp? no
what about knights and all their aura protective spells im sure it wastes some mana of theirs (dunno if they get rps for this please give answer if you know) they dont have to use these you know
what about warlocks as said before their giving out mana and buffing up people for which they could be using that mana for spells in which they could get more rps
what about marksmen i lost count the amount of times theyve frozzen a target so i can get a few spells in while they could have just killed him thereselfs
what about barbs the best of em run to the slower people during hunting/traveling and give em a onslaught yet again no rp gain for this and just wasted mana

seriously conjurers that think the way gigo does should just get over it

every class does things that they get little/no rps for

so gigo if your still thinking the way you do now refusing to heal i say no one track for gigo or take him hunting, knights dont give him protective auras, warlocks dont give any mana or buffs to gigo after all he's the expert with all of the heals and buffs in fact warlocks just dont get involved with gigo unless your the enemy, same goes for marksmen o and barbs dont give him any of your dmg bonuses or onslaughts and any conjurers who disagree with gigo dont give him heals or buffs either

[ncvr]

Actually, any positive spell on lvl 5 counts as 1k dmg. So if you just cast Greater Healing and stand in the middile of some injured people, you're basically doing 1000*amount of people effected dmg. Which is quite a bit, and I find that I lvl nearly as fast as when I'm just grinding when I use a supportive setup on my warlock(Rasius' bay is good unless any mobs are unchallenging).

[Angelwinged_Devil]

actually a warlock buffing and giving mana is not pretty useful. A warlock levelling up the discipline enchantments is a crippled warlock.

On the whole conjurer thing going warjurer while levelling I say xp rates needs to be fixed too, REMOVE THE DAMN 10% BARRIER. It'll make levelling fun again, one shot on a mob and you get groupxp, you can extinguish an area for mobs without having to think about getting xp enough, levelling was fun when this 10% barrier was not there. Now I'm forced to level alone, else I will not do enough damage to get some xp, my spells fail I won't get xp, the creature dies before I hit him with a spell. And if this doesn't happen I'm the one stealing the xp from my teammate, and that's basically why I changed to levelling alone. If I find enough mobs I and if I don't fool around I can do 12.5k xp in ten minutes.
It's basically the same with conjurers, one shot with their staff and they won't need their spells, you could have a group of friends levelling together, same with conjurers, they wouldn't have to use spells.

I have nothing against changing builds all the time though.

Another thing which I think should be done is to give xp for killing enemies too, taking forts and such, it'll make levelling fun.

[mann2411]

yer but then itll encourage lvl 5's in the wz and such
true about the warlocks too but i think its more mana giving than anything really which some kind warlocks give me when im running low on mana from hunting i think they only have that mana spell cause they wanted the intelligence passive spell, ambitous or mana burrow or energy burrow cant remember what its called

[Angelwinged_Devil]

yer but then itll encourage lvl 5's in the wz and such
not really, because they'll get xp easier in the inner realm, a mob system which will be agressive x2 towards people <30 will solve it

[Leadoffhitter]

As far as I know about barbs... Yup, they get rp and xp from onslaught... Warlocks don't give too much mana, let's be serious. They ask for it mostly, and they want it now, because of mana cost on their spells.
Every single conju has been left away on hunts, we all have been in that situation.
And I don't know if it has changed a lot or not, but 5 days ago almost no knight rush to block spells and stop barbs.
Marksmans are gods now, over rest of mortals. Max damage and nice protections, they can play as ranged barbs. They don't have to care about anything but mana!
Hunters will be next gods in early-medium future. Just look who is playing that char. And they got confuse, that hurts more than permanent criticism and loop-sight over conju's work!

No class deserve to be blamed, and all of them can fail, it's us who fails! Pretending that one class plays nice all the time (or a player) is just wrong. Shit happens to all of us! Selfcriticism helps more to improve your game and help your realm than going out to criticize rest of the people, because of this or that. But big egos don't want to accept that. If they died it could not be because of their fault!

You never know what's going on in other's player char (Lag, cooldown, configs to test something, lvling template, dizzyness, etc).

But with conjis everybody has an opinion to be expressed and it gets tiring to death in long term.

On the other hand there's a lot of ppl playing conjuror as if they are warlock, and in fort wars it sucks. Sometimes it's a reaction over so many criticism, sometimes it is just they don't stop, listen and test.

Lag is getting healing awful and we got frustrated too.
We can't affect to war cause we stay stucked for several seconds. Everybody does, but, as any other class char, you try to think which skills you would need to keep alive and kill your enemy and wait until it "refresh", with conji maybe your healing target maybe rushed or went back and he is dead. After three deads you don't want to get your allies counting on healings you can't make. They won't expect anything from you if you are not there, so they will play another manner that will avoid death risk.

All conjurors (at least, those who play mainly this char) have beeing advancing all this to community on the forum, and it's true, most of the people got profit of it to blame again conjurors, and say something like: "you leech all around"; "you want to make an army unbeatable with all your buffs, and be untouchable...", as a "hit the conji campaign".

We don't get xp, nor xp if we don't max damage skills...

Well, here we are. Conjurors becoming warjurors or disappearing. Shame.

I think too many influence from archers on changes...
There's a group of players that influence much more than the rest with their comments on forums and they're listened way more than the rest of us (personality, knowledge about the game, testing work, position on ranks...). And I'm sorry guys, but maybe you unbalance the game with your influence...


P.S.- Some conjurors sucks, yes, I agree, but not more than rest of players/chars. It's just they are important on fort wars.

P.S2.- Sorry for such a long text. You don't have to read it if you don't want to. :)

[Angelwinged_Devil]

wise words
Actually I can agree on most of the things you said, but selfcritsism is not always the answer if half the part of your group didn't play as a team.

I know why some hunter killed my yesterday, but I won't change my way of playing there, I put him on autorun and was eating :p.

and btw, I appreciate conjurers who play like their class is meant to be and try to encourage it. But I'll never leave a conjurer behind or any other party member.

[misaccc]

REMOVE THE DAMN 10% BARRIER. It'll make levelling fun again, one shot on a mob and you get groupxp, you can extinguish an area for mobs without having to think about getting xp enough, levelling was fun when this 10% barrier was not there.

we would have milions of ppl training everywhere less hunting parties...maybe put the limit to 2% like for rp.newbs wont get anything because of the evades and low dmg
man i want it to be like in the old days:thumb_up:

[wakim42]

It's possible you hit the nail on the head with this comment.

People get mad at conjurers a lot.

Actually if i started to play my conj. less, long time ago, it was the opposite : i was getting mad after others too often (as conj you can see some people playing really stupid or very selfish) and i dont play the game to get mad.

[craiyzee]

Is this another "let blame conjurers for our problems" thread. Because they're kinda getting boring. Everybody can change classes as they like, and play as often as they like.
I don't blame you for critisizing warjurers because they annoy me too, but there have been a couple of time when I have been solo leveling (due to the lack of leveling partners) and someone has told me to get my butt over to a fort war, and then critisize me for being a warjurer, but most of the time I'm full support.
Anyways, as I was writing this I lost my point, so if I make no sense just ignore me... because... I'm bored and need something to do.

[Leadoffhitter]

As far as I know about barbs... Yup, they get rp and xp from onslaught... Warlocks don't give too much mana, let's be serious. They ask for it mostly, and they want it now, because of mana cost on their spells.
Every single conju has been left away on hunts, we all have been in that situation.
And I don't know if it has changed a lot or not, but 5 days ago almost no knight rush to block spells and stop barbs.
Marksmans are gods now, over rest of mortals. Max damage and nice protections, they can play as ranged barbs. They don't have to care about anything but mana!
Hunters will be next gods in early-medium future. Just look who is playing that char. And they got confuse, that hurts more than permanent criticism and loop-sight over conju's work!

No class deserve to be blamed, and all of them can fail, it's us who fails! Pretending that one class plays nice all the time (or a player) is just wrong. Shit happens to all of us! Selfcriticism helps more to improve your game and help your realm than going out to criticize rest of the people, because of this or that. But big egos don't want to accept that. If they died it could not be because of their fault!

You never know what's going on in other's player char (Lag, cooldown, configs to test something, lvling template, dizzyness, etc).

But with conjis everybody has an opinion to be expressed and it gets tiring to death in long term.

On the other hand there's a lot of ppl playing conjuror as if they are warlock, and in fort wars it sucks. Sometimes it's a reaction over so many criticism, sometimes it is just they don't stop, listen and test.

Lag is getting healing awful and we got frustrated too.
We can't affect to war cause we stay stucked for several seconds. Everybody does, but, as any other class char, you try to think which skills you would need to keep alive and kill your enemy and wait until it "refresh", with conji maybe your healing target maybe rushed or went back and he is dead. After three deads you don't want to get your allies counting on healings you can't make. They won't expect anything from you if you are not there, so they will play another manner that will avoid death risk.

All conjurors (at least, those who play mainly this char) have beeing advancing all this to community on the forum, and it's true, most of the people got profit of it to blame again conjurors, and say something like: "you leech all around"; "you want to make an army unbeatable with all your buffs, and be untouchable...", as a "hit the conji campaign".

We don't get xp, nor rp if we don't max damage skills...

Well, here we are. Conjurors becoming warjurors or disappearing. Shame.

I think too many influence from archers on changes...
There's a group of players that influence much more than the rest with their comments on forums and they're listened way more than the rest of us (personality, knowledge about the game, testing work, position on ranks...). And I'm sorry guys, but maybe you unbalance the game with your influence...


P.S.- Some conjurors sucks, yes, I agree, but not more than rest of players/chars. It's just they are important on fort wars.

P.S2.- Sorry for such a long text. You don't have to read it if you don't want to. :)

Edited: Rp for xp mistake.

[LuthienNenharma]

I can only talk about myself now... I enjoyed the playing of my conjurer very much until they changed smth in the system. Now you have to heal and give mana in the right moment, not like before.
-> In a hunting party you get to know very fast that the group wont wait for you if there is enemy. So you started to heal them and give mana from the distance. Now you can behappy if you get a few(!) rp. The same with lvling.
You have to give it in the fight, not before or after.
Because of that fort wars are more attractive? - Nah. You get there more rp because of the areaspells, but when the hp bug or anything else is laggy, it is hard to heal the right ppl.
So everything was easier for us before this update.
I got frustrated of the less rp/xp for my work. I always spent all of my mana in a fight for the other players.

Well, here we are. Conjurors becoming warjurors or disappearing. Shame.
When you realize that you should lvl/hunt with a zarkit/mental/staff mastery you get frustrated. I liked to support the ppl with mana and health, it helps them more as my attack on mobs or enemy. When you have skilled those trees you wont be able to lvl in groups like before, you have not the mana for it. Solo lvling like a warjurer? Nothing for me... I stopped with my Conjurer for some time, too.

[Arkenion]

(...) they changed smth in the system. Now you have to heal and give mana in the right moment, not like before.
-> In a hunting party you get to know very fast that the group wont wait for you if there is enemy. So you started to heal them and give mana from the distance. Now you can behappy if you get a few(!) rp.
I experienced that too. I was hunting in Alsius with Valour and he barely got any RP (though he wanted them - that RP-addict :p )
Same with levelling.. I was levelling with a conjuror in my clan and even although he had mana communion and regen for me, he didn't always receive experience points. (My level was higher than his, but he told me that he has the same problems with players at his level)
After that, I told him to get some buffs like bear strength, bless.. Then he sometimes got XP. :/

[Valorius]

I have no complaints with syrtis conjuror corps. I think they're great.

[G40st]

I dont see a shortage of conjurers, i see a shortage of good conjurers

At the same time, i see a increasing amount of warjurers because of the current xp system. I dont like this, a conjurer is not built for offensive action, you might get lucky sometimes like gigo but, a conjurers roll is to be the buffer/healer of the game if people dont understand this then well... Maybe you should have chosen warlock in the first place :biggrin:

Please NGD, make so the xp system works for support conjurers again. I dont need anymore zarkits in my field of vision, i dont need anymore conjurers running into enemy lines and comming back screaming VIDA. I just want more conjurers doing what conjurers should do, saving peoples asses.

// Hp

[DkySven]

I remember that conju who asked us for mana......... But yes this problem is caused by the current xp system.

[Heglin]

I dont see a shortage of conjurers, i see a shortage of good conjurers

At the same time, i see a increasing amount of warjurers because of the current xp system. I dont like this, a conjurer is not built for offensive action, you might get lucky sometimes like gigo but, a conjurers roll is to be the buffer/healer of the game if people dont understand this then well... Maybe you should have chosen warlock in the first place :biggrin:

Please NGD, make so the xp system works for support conjurers again. I dont need anymore zarkits in my field of vision, i dont need anymore conjurers running into enemy lines and comming back screaming VIDA. I just want more conjurers doing what conjurers should do, saving peoples asses.

// Hp

:thumb_up: I lvl my conju without zarkit, it makes me lvl slower but it helps other players lvl faster and since i already have a char at lvl 50 it does'nt matter much if my conju takes some time. If conjus only lvl as "warjurers" they will have huge problems playing a support role at lvl 50. Good conjus have a huge impact on battles and "warjurers" only look like warlocks with a crappy setup at wars.

[Leadoffhitter]

I remember that conju who asked us for mana......... But yes this problem is caused by the current xp system.

Happened to me 5 days ago, when I decided to stop playing full-time conjuror. (lag, no possibility to help around...)

I can understand that ppl don't heal because they were leveling and they didn't train for it, but... asking for mana? It surprises me, no matter how many times I hear it. But I suppose we all makes mistakes at the beggining and it's just a natural learning proccess.

[magnet]

I'll gladly play another player's Conjurer and let him play my Warlock :). Chalo, are you up to? I will heal you and you can get tons of kills with Elrik! (I will make sure to cast Divine Intervention and give you mana too :p).

[trulyem]

Every conju in alsius is awesome :)

They do what they can and they work hard ;)

[bigjim]

Well, If anyone played beta or when the game was first released they would have seen how fun conjurer was to play. Now with it being hard to level because of the xp we gain, the lag, all of the dizzy spells that make you a sitting duck, confuse, no wonder not many are playing the class anymore.

[-Edge-]

u shouldnt use a zarkit....I prefer to send a lvl 5 skeleton king at the enemy, it really annoys them, I also send lvl 5 mummies, and lvl 5 golems ;)

Must be some Valorius mid life crisis :sifflote:
In Ignis I see everyone has a conjurer as an alt. We have plenty, some have even started healing.

[Malik2]

I think there may be two reasons for fewer conjurers in Syrtis.

The first is cyclical. I have been spending a lot of time with newer players over the last two months and most of the new mages I speak to have simply wanted to choose the class that dealt the most damage. So most of these plaeyrs have gone with warlocks. Back in July, that was not necessarily the case. It seemed to me at that time it was more evenly split between the two classes, that was my perception at least. I image that in time the two may be more evenly divided again.

Second, when more experienced players start alt characters I don't see conjs as an attractive alternative for most players becasue of reasons stated at the biginning of this thread: they are criticized sometime unfairly in the War Zone, for not healing this person or that person and ordered about sometimes rudely. And, much of this criticism particulatly on the Syrtis channel is uncalled for and at times nakedly selfish. Who wants to deal with a bunch of crap like that?

One more thing: It is unfair to criticize a conjurer with a zarkit, as a lvl 35 conj I reworked my character to support alone and managed to get killed 3 times just leaving the war zone by enemy hunters one day. No one wants to wander around like a sitting duck, at least with a zarket you have a means to defend yourself.

[Leadoffhitter]

I'll gladly play another player's Conjurer and let him play my Warlock. Chalo, are you up to?

I can't give my password to anybody. Regnum Emperor order that to me each time I play! :cuac:

I will heal you and you can get tons of kills with Elrik!

Elrik's deaths you mean? You would pay a lot in repairs after that exchange!!
(I will make a warlock and then we could play that way with your conji... or maybe not possible? Do you speak my language? :p )

(I will make sure to cast Divine Intervention and give you mana too ).

Noooooooooo! Another addiction on my list? I couldn't bear it. I would have problems to control myself with so many withdrawal symptoms!! :sifflote:


Nice to read you joking again

:)

[magnet]

I can't give my password to anybody. Regnum Emperor order that to me each time I play!


Well I'm not *anybody* :p. And you'd have my password :D.


Elrik's deaths you mean? You would pay a lot in repairs after that exchange!!
(I will make a warlock and then we could play that way with your conji... or maybe not possible? Do you speak my language?)


Don't worry Elrik dies a lot already, won't change much :P. And since I did no quest if ever I'm broke I can do the quests and be rich in no time. And the problem with my Conj is that he's lv 30 and I don't have time to level it, just like I guess you don't have time to level a Warlock from 1 to 50 :D. That would be mutual benefit :p.

And when you go back to your Conj everyone will tell you how good you are and all the ladies will want to bear your child, isn't that great? ;)


Noooooooooo! Another addiction on my list? I couldn't bear it. I would have problems to control myself with so many withdrawal symptoms!!


Nice to read you joking again

:)

C'me on, I won't do anything bad :p.:clapclap:

[Leadoffhitter]

the problem with my Conj is that he's lv 30 and I don't have time to level it, just like I guess you don't have time to level a Warlock from 1 to 50. That would be mutual benefit.

And to 30? I can do that. ;)

And when you go back to your Conj everyone will tell you how good you are and all the ladies will want to bear your child, isn't that great?

Man, do you remember that I know you? You would keep every girl in Ignis just for you, even mine!! :p

C'me on, I won't do anything bad

Lol, I repeat the first sentence of last paragraph....

Man do you remember that I know you? You're EVIL like every single citizen from my realm.

:devil:

[GIGO305]

I've been playing a conju that just made lvl 41 tonight and here's why conjus aren't playing as support anymore. During the entire lvling process they get rewarded for fighting, zarkits and hard hitting spells. A conju get almost no xp for trying to help allies level. Now when this conju hits the WZ they continue to play this way and fight instead of heal. At level 39 I retrained to be pure support, HA major mistake! For two days I followed groups around and kept them full of mana and health. Most in the groups lvled during this time. My XP moved, but less than an inch. I went back and retrained and can now level non-stop and my XP flies up! Until conjus are rewarded by supporting leveling allies, they will continue to play as a warjurer.

just my 2 cents...


conju are suposevily the worst fighting class but when we fight we get huge rewards so ppl complain that i steal their xp so ill leave the whole healing thing for when im lvl 50 because i can heal and give mana but i usualy get less than 20xp total and 3 RP in a whore fort war that i healed revived ect like crazy i didnt let ppl past by me withput buffing them so i did a few experiments and realized that conjus shouldnt dedicate them selvs to healing till lvl 50 but should stiil be able to atleast revive by lvl 20

[GIGO305]

I think there may be two reasons for fewer conjurers in Syrtis.

The first is cyclical. I have been spending a lot of time with newer players over the last two months and most of the new mages I speak to have simply wanted to choose the class that dealt the most damage. So most of these plaeyrs have gone with warlocks. Back in July, that was not necessarily the case. It seemed to me at that time it was more evenly split between the two classes, that was my perception at least. I image that in time the two may be more evenly divided again.

Second, when more experienced players start alt characters I don't see conjs as an attractive alternative for most players becasue of reasons stated at the biginning of this thread: they are criticized sometime unfairly in the War Zone, for not healing this person or that person and ordered about sometimes rudely. And, much of this criticism particulatly on the Syrtis channel is uncalled for and at times nakedly selfish. Who wants to deal with a bunch of crap like that?

One more thing: It is unfair to criticize a conjurer with a zarkit, as a lvl 35 conj I reworked my character to support alone and managed to get killed 3 times just leaving the war zone by enemy hunters one day. No one wants to wander around like a sitting duck, at least with a zarket you have a means to defend yourself.

thaths why we have zarkits and other powers to defend our selvs since u guys dnt defend us and as a well known conju in 3 realms i get targeted so i cant send tremor, i hate being in the back like a wuss and i think its un fair that warlocks can steal our zarkits for ever untill they die, i think the conju should be able to send it away or get it returned for the remaining time by using that spell that makes a bond between the conju n somon that shares damage taken and use that on my zarkit so if it hurts me its killing its self :clapclap: but conjus should have a way to get rid of it by clicing on it and using that spell

[GIGO305]

gigo im sorry but thats bullcrud
wow you heal every time at war thats what you were built for you might not get as many rps/xp but consider this
what about hunters we waste a hell of alot of mana tracking do we get rps/xp? no
what about knights and all their aura protective spells im sure it wastes some mana of theirs (dunno if they get rps for this please give answer if you know) they dont have to use these you know
what about warlocks as said before their giving out mana and buffing up people for which they could be using that mana for spells in which they could get more rps
what about marksmen i lost count the amount of times theyve frozzen a target so i can get a few spells in while they could have just killed him thereselfs
what about barbs the best of em run to the slower people during hunting/traveling and give em a onslaught yet again no rp gain for this and just wasted mana

seriously conjurers that think the way gigo does should just get over it

every class does things that they get little/no rps for

so gigo if your still thinking the way you do now refusing to heal i say no one track for gigo or take him hunting, knights dont give him protective auras, warlocks dont give any mana or buffs to gigo after all he's the expert with all of the heals and buffs in fact warlocks just dont get involved with gigo unless your the enemy, same goes for marksmen o and barbs dont give him any of your dmg bonuses or onslaughts and any conjurers who disagree with gigo dont give him heals or buffs either


i never seen this, knights only think obout army of one to protect them selvs and those domes are usualy from mages, and ea i seen a huge amount of hunters that try to be maskman with a pet if i play my role when i have to heal reviving but since you call ti a role why dont knights use protective spells and i seen some barberians without warcryss at all warlocks with no tremor acrchers in the back waiting for the enemy to come to them or wariors to move up im doing my role but where is yours!??

[ljwolfe]

"Marksmans are gods now, over rest of mortals. Max damage and nice protections, they can play as ranged barbs. They don't have to care about anything but mana!"

You really need to play one in rvr before spouting such nonsense. Everyone has good protection against arrows.

[octopus]

I don't play my level 50 conjurer nearly as much anymore, for several reasons, many of which have already been mentioned.

First of all, we suck at offense, so the more slanted toward support/defense, the more effective we are. However, this leaves us very vulnerable when we are alone or in a very small group. I REALLY enjoy playing a support conjurer when I'm with a large group, but any other times, I log in my other, lower level character and have more fun.

The Confuse spell, which has already been discussed many times, pretty much shuts down a support conjurer for 35 to 40 seconds. It's a one-shot, low mana, short cool-down, no defense, long-range conjurer-fuck spell. Get this spell more balanced, with a shorter duration and allow Mind Blank to defend against it like all other mind-effecting spells, and being a support conjurer will be more attractive.

Hunting totally sucks as a conjurer. Here's what happens most of the time. The archers and warriors run far ahead, leaving us trailing behind, vulnerable and useless. Someone attacks from behind, and we're dead before our impatient teammates know what happened. When your group finds an enemy, what happens? The archers and warriors rush in, and kill them before the conjurer catches up. When we catch up, the fight is over, we heal everyone, buff them, give them mana, and get NO RP for our efforts. If you do happen to get to the battle at the beginning, an enemy hunter can zap you with Confuse, and you're out of the fight, useless. Nothing is more boring than hunting as a conjurer.

In the past, I could earn XP just fine while being all support with 2 or more teammates, but things have changed. I recently got 5% necro, so had two friends help me get rid of it. It took literally 15 minutes of non-stop fighting! With my warlock, I can get rid of 5% necro in about 60 seconds by myself. This is because conjurers now get far less credit in grinding than in the past for their support.

As was mentioned by someone else, we get no credit for our spells unless they are timed right. For example, you heal a barbarian a couple times, give him mana, then buff him. Then, he kills a monster in 2 hits, so fast you didn't get a chance to cast any spells. You heal him again after the monster is dead. For this, you will usually get no XP, because only spells that are cast DURING a fight count, which is BS.

I can see how those from other realms might get sick of people like Demon Monger whining about how useless conjurers are, and how they "leech their RP." Fortunately most people in Alsius are not so short-sighted, and are more appreciative of a full support conjurer's healing, mana, buffs and defensive magic.

Oh, and the "regen spam" in the combat logs is terribly annoying to support conjurers. Many people have complained about this. I'm hoping one of these days, NGD will take an interest in conjurers and fix this. 90%+ of my combat log is full of useless info like this:
You've cast on Someone: Regenerate ally [+45]
You've cast on Someone: Regenerate ally [+45]
You've cast on Someone: Regenerate ally [+45]
You've cast on Someone: Regenerate ally [+45]
You've cast on Someone: Regenerate ally [+45]

So basically, I usually log in with my warlock and have fun for a while. If a large war breaks out, I'll switch to my conjurer and join the fight, otherwise it's just not fun.

[Leadoffhitter]

You really need to play one in rvr before spouting such nonsense. Everyone has good protection against arrows.

Well, results of some marksmans in every realm speaks loud and clear since some weeks now. Just marksmanns doesn't agree... ;)

[mann2411]

ok gigo so you regret making your conjurer then? i think youd do better if you killed your conjurer and just made a warlock instead of trying to be a warjurer so you dont wanna be a conjurer anymore thats fine with me just stop complaining about it if you knew you were gonna be at the back of the war and not at the front attempting to do dmg then why did you stay a conjurer and not change your class the first time after you went toi war im almost certain conjurers were never meant to be up the front doing dmg i can accept the fact that sometimes conjurers dont heal you the very second you say heal and i understand its cause of cooldown or not enough mana or dizzied or something like that but ive never gotten angry at them and more times they've helped me survive a fight with their heals you dont wanna heal fine by me but if you aint doing your job of healing i aint telling you where the enemies are hiding

[Godofsilver]

i never seen this, knights only think obout army of one to protect them selvs and those domes are usualy from mages, and ea i seen a huge amount of hunters that try to be maskman with a pet if i play my role when i have to heal reviving but since you call ti a role why dont knights use protective spells and i seen some barberians without warcryss at all warlocks with no tremor acrchers in the back waiting for the enemy to come to them or wariors to move up im doing my role but where is yours!??
Knights only thinking about themselves?
Yea, we like you too...
...not.

Anyway, what is it with you and thinking that EVERYONE IS IN IT FOR THEMSELVES? God, have you even stopped for 0.00003 seconds and looked at it like some people are in it for support and they're NOT in it for your realm points? Army of One is an excellent spell, as it protects the knight AND, if used during a rush, gives everyone else a chance to use their areas! Even if they ARE out to play for themselves, they are still helping you, so you can shut up, suck it up, and give people a chance. For pity's sake, we're NOT all out to get you, we're NOT all in it for just us, Regnum fort wars are about TEAMWORK, so if you like it or not, just treat people with some respect.

Knights DO use support spells; deflecting barrier is one of the best auras your realm can have, and it's for defence, not "leeching" as you people call it!

And if you don't like it, go play a different game.

[Valour]

thaths why we have zarkits and other powers to defend our selvs since u guys dnt defend us and as a well known conju in 3 realms i get targeted so i cant send tremor, i hate being in the back like a wuss and i think its un fair that warlocks can steal our zarkits for ever untill they die, i think the conju should be able to send it away or get it returned for the remaining time by using that spell that makes a bond between the conju n somon that shares damage taken and use that on my zarkit so if it hurts me its killing its self :clapclap: but conjus should have a way to get rid of it by clicing on it and using that spell

Some points-

- I don't use a zarkit, they even get in the way ffs.
- I don't use tremor.
- I am a healer conjurer.
- I target enemies that come into my range with any offensive spell I have to cause some effect.
- I certainly don't stay at the back being a 'wuss' ;)
- I protect myself and others, it's OUR job, also knights are pretty good at protecting us as well as causing us hassle. Knights of alsius are awesome for causing us mages problems.
- I often live till last of fights.
- Zarkits can be deactivated with sanctuary.

[LuthienNenharma]

- I often live till last of fights.
Yes. Good Conjurers survive because they can use Sanctuary and stay in the background to do their job.

i never seen this, knights only think obout army of one to protect them selvs and those domes are usualy from mages, and ea i seen a huge amount of hunters that try to be maskman with a pet if i play my role when i have to heal reviving but since you call ti a role why dont knights use protective spells and i seen some barberians without warcryss at all warlocks with no tremor acrchers in the back waiting for the enemy to come to them or wariors to move up im doing my role but where is yours!??
I love to steal Zarkits. It is always nice to kill a Warjurer with his own Summon :biggrin:. A Zarkit is always very useful for me and much fun.
Dont worry, when you will meet a hunting group you will die with summon or without very fast.
I would try Staff Mastery, you can hit the target hard, fast and with a higher range. I never tested it, just heard about it. But well, no one can steal you this skills.
Have you ever tried steal skin?

[Valour]

I love to steal Zarkits. It is always nice to kill a Warjurer with his own Summon :biggrin:. A Zarkit is always very useful for me and much fun.
Dont worry, when you will meet a hunting group you will die with summon or without very fast.
I would try Staff Mastery, you can hit the target hard, fast and with a higher range. I never tested it, just heard about it. But well, no one can steal you this skills.
Have you ever tried steal skin?


You can have this 'shot gun' setup, but it requires you to click on each individual element time and time again, you have to buff yourself every two minutes for elements and every one minute for speed and distance.

Steel skin is highly effective, but yet again, I don't use it ^^ It doesn't work for mages, and for a conjurer, mages can be a big problem.

You also need to be good at your job, it's not as easy as it seems...


It seems you can cast DI on summons, does this cancel posses? (not that I even use the summon ^^)

[ncvr]

DI cancels possess summoning. So do that Gigo, but...it's a waste. I'm sure a warlock can do much more dmg with terror in just one shot than your zarkit can for the few seconds he's alive.

[Valour]

DI cancels possess summoning. So do that Gigo, but...it's a waste. I'm sure a warlock can do much more dmg with terror in just one shot than your zarkit can for the few seconds he's alive.

Indeed, they don't have much health. Better off with level 5 mind blank than level 5 zarkit to be honest.

[mann2411]

agreeing 100% with what godofgold just said back. so we all know now that gigo doesnt wanna be a conjurer anymore i say we chuck him into the middle of ignis should be good for a few laughs as he attempts to fight his way back to syrtis or dyes specifically what a warjurer does best he dies cause even though he can get as many attack spells as he wants truth being hes still designed for healing and buffing

[trash]

Believe me, I know. But sometimes the reasons are justified, like when bringing a Zarkit to a fort war.
Not only do they not heal, but their Zarkit keeps me from being able to shoot the enemies--especially dwarves.


So conjurers get in the way when they should be back doing the dishes, sorry, I meant healing us brave souls on the front line. By definition conjurers are a defensive class, fine, but theoretically with as much right to play their character as they choose as hunters and knights, and shockingly, even join in in the action maybe. If all they are deemed to do usefully is follow us around topping up our health bars why should they bother playing, hell, I wouldn't...

Oh, and clever, witty signature there. I'm sure it's really helping the game community work together in a constructive manner.

[mann2411]

You obviously haven't been reading the development forum... others are out too, including Valorius Rageway.

can you post link please looked and couldnt find it

[ncvr]

can you post link please looked and couldnt find it
Val stated that 90% of his clan have already moved to WoW. It is in all of the threads that gained 8 pages in 1 day.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

conju are suposevily the worst fighting class but when we fight we get huge rewards so ppl complain that i steal their xp so ill leave the whole healing thing for when im lvl 50 because i can heal and give mana but i usualy get less than 20xp total and 3 RP in a whore fort war that i healed revived ect like crazy i didnt let ppl past by me withput buffing them so i did a few experiments and realized that conjus shouldnt dedicate them selvs to healing till lvl 50 but should stiil be able to atleast revive by lvl 20
it doesn't matter if you get rp or not gigo, maybe it's better to level as a warjurer that's true, but in a fort war you should go full support and doing the buff thing and healing thing, believe me, people like me will protect conjurers. I protect all my friends.

[LuthienNenharma]

you have to buff yourself every two minutes for elements and every one minute for speed and distance.
Yes, it takes you a lot of concentration and time. I bet that no one is able to cast this spells, give mana and heal ppl.
But I think that Staff Mastery is a good tree for warjurers, because there is no summon which can be stolen. With a few Mental skills the warjurer is strong, but not strong enough to win against someone, who knows how to fight against a warjurer.

it doesn't matter if you get rp or not gigo
For sure, everyone wants go get rp and xp for his work. Playing a Conjurer in a fortwar is not the easiest thing, you have to help everyone.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

For sure, everyone wants go get rp and xp for his work. Playing a Conjurer in a fortwar is not the easiest thing, you have to help everyone.
not me... I don't care if I get rp, I care about staying alive, the more we stay alive and can fight longer without dying the more succeeded we are, not how much


I have no interest in this community anymore, seeing as how I've quit the game.
You obviously haven't been reading the development forum... others are out too, including Valorius Rageway.

SO WHAT valorius rageway is a noob who thinks having a lot of rps makes you a better player and who only posted in the development section to get an overpowered hunter. He doesn't really care about anything else.

[ncvr]

Still flaming him are we AwD?

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Still flaming him are we AwD?
meh it was an opinion, not a flame :p but sorry... I just wanted to inform katiechan that valorius leaving the game is not really a bad thing for syrtis.

[daehenob]

Val isn't the only one leaving the game. ;)

[Valour]

GIGO- Just so you know, as a healer conjurer I can gather up to 2k rps a day at level 46.

Gone slightly off topic by talking about people leaving... I don't care who leaves, i'm staying ^^...

[mann2411]

so what people are now leaving the game because they dont get rps as awd stated before try having fun rather than focusing on how many rps you got or didnt get for the amount of dmg you did

[mann2411]

yer i do surpose sitting in the fort and just healing does get pretty boring right? what to do to make conjurers funner?

[craiyzee]

yer i do surpose sitting in the fort and just healing does get pretty boring right? what to do to make conjurers funner?

give them water guns!

[ArcticWolf]

yer i do surpose sitting in the fort and just healing does get pretty boring right? what to do to make conjurers funner?

It's not just that. Conjurers are quite interesting when you get to learn all the spells and descriptions, how to use them in combination with other sub-classes and to balance the battle. Of course that if you always use your conjurer the same way, with the same spells and same people it's going to get boring in the end, but try changing your config and battlegroup!

We're not only healers, we can buff, fight and give away mana (or take it :P)... Summoning is another option.

Real conjurers are the ones that can learn everything about the class, but still play and master it, adapting to the group where they're in. I'm sure we need those "real" conjurers with a support-healing config, but it doesn't pay enough to play like that anymore... Why? RP's. We get almost no points.

Of course, points aren't the most important thing you may say -points aren't important to me either, but there are a lot of conjurers that think that way. Some others can't get to 50 because the same system that controls the RP sharing is the same as the one that controls the XP given to the players. If we get almost no XP being support, don't expect to have that kind of conjurers playing around anytime soon.

[e30G]

Yeah Xeph. Unfortunately, playing as a conjurer effectively also means you won't get rp or xp from it. I have resigned to that fact long ago. Playing effectively means using your spells only when you absolutely need to, and that means healing only who needs it, using areas only as a last resort when you can't keep up with micro management and positioning yourself strategically to prevent getting hit.

A Conjurer isn't the class to be if you are after personal glory in this game. It's more of a class which gives you personal satisfaction knowing that your party did well because you did well.

Unfortunately, I don't think many play as a Conjurer with this in mind. Therefore many are disappointed with the class.

[Valour]

There is a way to get more exp from training, like only casting spells on them while they fight... And having constant spells cast on them for the duration of the fight. I see alot of conjurers healing at any time, when you should focus around that area to steal the exp ^^

Who stands in the fort and 'fights' all the time? XD it's the same as above for realm points, just run out with some protective areas to help others fighting in the door area and keep close to the door for a quick escape?

[Angelwinged_Devil]

There is a way to get more exp from training, like only casting spells on them while they fight... And having constant spells cast on them for the duration of the fight. I see alot of conjurers healing at any time, when you should focus around that area to steal the exp ^^

Who stands in the fort and 'fights' all the time? XD it's the same as above for realm points, just run out with some protective areas to help others fighting in the door area and keep close to the door for a quick escape?
true true :p, or maybe heal/zarkit/mana/enchantmens ;D

[mann2411]

what about like party xp? barb and conjurer are in a party barb kills something and conju gets at least some xp but more if he heals/buffs/manas and their should be a range to which it can be used so theirs no lazy person just leaving his char afk and racking in the xp

[Drah]

we suck at offense... vulnerable when we are alone or in a very small group... The Confuse spell, one-shot, low mana, short cool-down, no defense, long-range conjurer-fuck spell... Hunting totally sucks as a conjurer. The archers and warriors run far ahead, leaving us trailing behind, vulnerable and useless

You've covered just about all the reasons I can't be bothered with my conjurer any more. Additionally, in my timezone, if I want to play during the day/evening there's usually not enough people around for forts or large hunting parties.

As for my 2nd and 3rd chars, I've almost given up leveling them (it's too much waiting around for mana to regen when you're not assisted by a supporting conjurer and the support conjurers are being played less lately thanks to NGD's recent changes!)

[Leadoffhitter]

"Marksmans are gods now, over rest of mortals. Max damage and nice protections, they can play as ranged barbs. They don't have to care about anything but mana!"

You really need to play one in rvr before spouting such nonsense. Everyone has good protection against arrows.

Some more nonsenses:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=15712


I hope they will help you to improve your marks...

Regards.

[Valorius]

IMO 'defensive' marksmen with all their defensive spells maxed are clearly overpowered. I can't even hit one of those for 90dmg with my ulber xymerald bow, even with 2x deadly sight rings equipped.

What possessed NGD to give marksmen the spell "strategic positioning" is beyond me. Hunters are said to be hard to kill, but a marksman gets significantly more protection than a hunter does, and even set up for defense, still has far more firepower than a hunter of the same lvl.

[Nikor]

A Conjurer isn't the class to be if you are after personal glory in this game.

The glory in playing a conjuror is not expressed in RP. It's in the respect of the other players. When, after a good fight, people thank me either personally or even "the conjus", that means a lot more to me than a few points that can never really represent the true value of a player.

[Spud]

Boy, the ignorance displayed in this thread is beyond belief! Or perhaps you would like to forget as to why we are at such an impasse with conj's and the rest of the RO community?

The truth is conj's leveraged their healing powers, back when the game was beta and a bit after, against the rest of the members in their party. That is to say most of the time, at least in the parties I was in (if they were not the big exp parties that included 25 people or more - ah the good old days) if you didn't let the conj lead the group, which basically allowing them to pick which targets to kill and where to go, or follow the conj - the conj didn't heal you.

Part of this stemmed out fact that most conj's back then were warjurers and saw their pets as something better than having party members around who were always asking (demanding) for heals.

Which didn't make sense to those who understood the exp trade off for a solo'n conj versus a grouped one back then.

Anyways, after the group exp narf (having to do 10% dmg or more) the exp gain from group conj's stuck out like sore thumb and soon most of the warriors, knights or 'locks were claiming that conj's were leaching exp, but surprisingly never heard those comments coming from marks, hunters or barbs.

Funny thing is, those claims were mostly true because most conj's back then still had the warjurer mentality that solo hunting was better in exp and also free from the demands of party members.

But to the few conj's that knew their role, such as me Spud, these cries represented the beginning of the end of their loved conj character. And soon came the conj heal, buff and mana narf - where no longer could a conj gain exp from being solely a heal, buff, mana bot whore.

For me it was a lot of work being one of these whores, even in groups that consisted of only one other player besides me. Reason was because adds would often occur or people would be deliberately trying to take on more then one mob, there was always buffs that needed to be replaced and there was always healing - in short there was never any down time for the true conj (especially if the conj's goal was to always keep the people's health full, for adds were always a reality). Which made this way of playing harder then hunting solo! But most never really knew how hard it was really, because the good ones made it look easy.

And now we see who won this tug of war (the conj's vs. the other players of RO) that has existed as long as I can remember. And surprisingly it was the conj, for the conj has the best of three worlds: the conj has a pet, the conj has unlimited hp and the conj has unlimited mp. No other class can say that!

The glory in playing a conjuror is not expressed in RP. It's in the respect of the other players. When, after a good fight, people thank me either personally or even "the conjus", that means a lot more to me than a few points that can never really represent the true value of a player.

Anyone who believes this statement is a fool, for (1) very few people in real life are truly altruistic in nature and (2) NDG themselves have stated that RP's will allow one to buy things one day, or that there will be a purpose for RP's other then bragging rights.

What everyone needs to realize is that (1) people are going to play this game as they see fit, not how others want them to play. (2) things change in all mmo's and this one isn't any different. (3) NDG needs to stop listening to its player base on anything other than bugs because all vocal players that bich to NDG are only looking out for their own ass - not the good of everyone involved; and the results from this narf to the conj's main way to gain exp and rp's in parties is a clear example. And (4) NDG really messed up creating the conj, for it took money out of their pockets (or else the hardcores would be buying mana and health potions).

The conj's have won - it's clear now. And if I were in the position of being dependent on a conj (almost every class - I take exceptions on 'locks and hunter, marks) I would seriously start to be kind to them or stop bitching about this problem.

And since this truth has now been exposed, NDG you can now lock the thread!

[craiyzee]

Wow, that was brilliantly send.

[mann2411]

give this guy a fricking medal he must be like a journalist or something

[e30G]

Anyone who believes this statement is a fool,

I guess that makes me a fool then. The characteristics of the class makes them almost surely bound to work in the background, silently turning the tides of the war without others noticing. Some people notice, and give conjurers credit where it is due. Believe me when I say that a simple "thank you" or "good job" after a grueling fight means more to some of us than any amount of RP.

Besides, a conjurer playing for RP only means he is not playing 100% effectively.

What everyone needs to realize is that (1) people are going to play this game as they see fit, not how others want them to play. (2) things change in all mmo's and this one isn't any different. (3) NDG needs to stop listening to its player base on anything other than bugs because all vocal players that bich to NDG are only looking out for their own ass - not the good of everyone involved; and the results from this narf to the conj's main way to gain exp and rp's in parties is a clear example.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, I find it sad that this also means that most people will also not accept criticisms that would have given them an improvement because they are so hell-bent on how they want to play.

Yes NGD should lessen but not stop listening to player bitching. Players won't often have an objective view to things. However some will have valid points. It may be difficult but NGD should find a way to separate what is simple whining and suggestions that will actually help.

As for Conjurer leveling, unfortunately it seems that its currently easier to level a conjurer alone. However like what you said, its entirely up to the player whether or not he wants to level alone easily, or have the extra challenge of leveling in a group.

And (4) NDG really messed up creating the conj, for it took money out of their pockets (or else the hardcores would be buying mana and health potions).

I don't think of it that way. People still buy mana and health potions even though the conjurer class exists. If NGD needed more money then they should have gone with better premium items with more choices. It can only be a premium that affects cosmetics. Of the many MMO's I have played, people buy premium regardless of their real uselessness other than make them look cool. Never underestimate the vanity of a person.

The conj's have won - it's clear now. And if I were in the position of being dependent on a conj (almost every class - I take exceptions on 'locks and hunter, marks) I would seriously start to be kind to them or stop bitching about this problem.

The vast majority of players have been kind to me. In fact, the only time anyone got mad at me was when I was using a Zarkit on my noob days and it was hampering their targeting.

Most conjurers who seem to think people are rude to them are out for an ego trip IMHO. Yes you are the only one capable of healing allies, yes you can buff and give mana, but it doesn't mean you are any more important than the rest of the classes. Listen to the other players, learn from their "bitching" and improve your playing based on that. A little humility isn't bad.

And since this truth has now been exposed, NDG you can now lock the thread!

What's wrong? This is a perfectly good discussion. :)

[ncvr]

Anyone who believes this statement is a fool

Let us compare this statement with something else then.

I get more rp playing effectively than....

And since this truth has now been exposed, NDG you can now lock the thread!
This is a perfectly fine discussion. I see no reason to lock it.

the conj has the best of three worlds: the conj has a pet, the conj has unlimited hp and the conj has unlimited mp. No other class can say that!
I could, for a short while when hunting in Ignis. And no, I did not have any support other than the Zarkit I stole.

NDG themselves have stated that RP's will allow one to buy things one day, or that there will be a purpose for RP's other then bragging rights.
One day. But when that day comes NGD will start to seriously balance how much rp and xp conjus get from pure support.

And if I were in the position of being dependent on a conj (almost every class - I take exceptions on 'locks and hunter, marks) I would seriously start to be kind to them or stop bitching about this problem.
This thread was not made because the conjurors were doing a horrible job. The poster originally was a conj but quit playing it, because of how NGD stuffed up the amount of xp or rp conjurors got by pure support in a group of any less than 6.

[Spud]

I guess that makes me a fool then. The characteristics of the class makes them almost surely bound to work in the background, silently turning the tides of the war without others noticing. Some people notice, and give conjurers credit where it is due. Believe me when I say that a simple "thank you" or "good job" after a grueling fight means more to some of us than any amount of RP.

Besides, a conjurer playing for RP only means he is not playing 100% effectively.

I guess you are a fool, for as it stands today a conjurer that helps his teammates is not playing 100% effectively.

Why, because the goal of the game, as it stands today, is to gain exp and rp.

Suggesting that conj's should give up their right to exp, rp for recognition is saying to a conj that, "For you, conj, RO will be like a glorified chat client where maybe you can find friends by bending over and taking it for the team. And we know why you need friends, because you are playing the only class that isn't rewarded for grouping."


Players won't often have an objective view to things. However some will have valid points.

There cannot be valid points without objectiveness, nor the experience of what it takes to code the game. Thus, your point here is invalid!


However like what you said, its entirely up to the player whether or not he wants to level alone easily, or have the extra challenge of leveling in a group.

You know ernest, for the love of all that is holy, you fail to realize that that having an "extra challenge" without a benefit (exp, rp) will make most people turn away. And this existed even in beta, as I pointed out in my orginal post, when conj's saw a benefit to being a warjurer over a grouped conj.

Remember, relationships are about both giving and taking (even in virtual reality games like RO).

And where is the "give" here in terms of actual benefits to the conj for helping? Oh yes, a thank you and pat of the back, while you reap in all the exp and rp, whatever!

Its this short sightedness that on both sides (conj and everyone else) that led to this problem in the first place.

But you fail, again, to realize something and that is your short sightedness (as expressed in your statements) only reaffirm the conj' position to be warjurers.

If your as highly concerned about this issue as you say, you would be searching for a win-win situation. However, what you stated so far is hardly the advice to stick to for a budding conj.


Never underestimate the vanity of a person.

And yet you respond like you do, talk about vanity! Please go back and reread my original post.

Claiming others to take it for the team, with getting no benefits is hardly showing yourself as team player (or nice person), now is it? Especially in a game that give benefits to team play, but for some reason now gives almost zero to conj's.


The vast majority of players have been kind to me.

Of course, you letting them benefit substantially while you reap very little.

If I could maintain all the benefits in a two way relationship and have the other see it as a good thing as to why they receive little, I'd be happy with and kind to that player too!

And that was my main point at the end of my original post, but thanks for pointing that out.


Listen to the other players, learn from their "bitching" and improve your playing based on that. A little humility isn't bad.

You fail to realize, yet again:

Why should a player listen to another, if what they are doing is what they want to do?

Why should a player listen to another if they receive little in way of exp/rp?

And why should a player listen another about game mechanics that will keep changing?


You know ernest, the more and more I see the logic behind your statements the more I see you taking the stance that:

RO is a team play game and that in order for a conj to be a team player a conj should accept the fact that they will be rewarded less then all other classes while engaged in team play.

To make such a statement fails realize 3 things:

(1) The historical perspective of how we arrived at this impasse, which I outlined in my original post.

(2) Your stance is counter productive for most conj's and in fact is not an acceptable solution to the impasse we face today.

And (3), in order for us to move past this impasse the best solution would be to give a benefit to the conj for engaging in team play and one that is better then what can be gained from solo.

What's wrong? This is a perfectly good discussion.

Until all see this, there really isn't a need to discuss the issue is there?

[ncvr]

I guess you are a fool, for as it stands today a conjurer that helps his teammates is not playing 100% effectively.
Define 'effectively' then please. It would appear that your view of it is different to ours. Quite obviously.

To you, effectively is getting the most rp and becoming the highest ranked conjuror in regnum, no?

[Spud]

Define 'effectively' then please. It would appear that your view of it is different to ours. Quite obviously.

To you, effectively is getting the most rp and becoming the highest ranked conjuror in regnum, no?

No "effectively" in my opinion is getting an equal part of the exp that is gained from all team players.

For is this not a team play game?

(And for what it's worth the 10% dmg rule is ineffective in regards with my definition as well.)

[ncvr]

No "effectively" in my opinion is getting an equal part of the exp that is gained from all team players.

For is this not a team play game?

(And for what it's worth the 10% dmg rule is ineffective in regards with my definition as well.)
The 10% rule is stuffed up, that is what prevents you from playing "effectively".

[DkySven]

The 10% rule for xp is a pain for conjurers, yes. But I don't think that 2% rule for rp causes that much problems. Xzorstlok is #30 on the rp ranking list and Lord Victor is #10. I don't how supporting Lord Victor is, but Xzor is full support.

[ncvr]

We just happen to have a warjuror being the highest ranked conjuror in Syrtis, though(Enatim)...

[daehenob]

The 10% rule for xp is a pain for conjurers, yes. But I don't think that 2% rule for rp causes that much problems. Xzorstlok is #30 on the rp ranking list and Lord Victor is #10. I don't how supporting Lord Victor is, but Xzor is full support.

Kinda invalid points, as these two (I"m sure) have been 50 forever, and /way/ before the changes to exp/RP calculation. I'm not saying they aren't good conjurers, they just had their "glory days" before everything was changed. :)

[DkySven]

Aah, yes. You're right. I forget that.

[Valorius]

Conjurors are crucial to the outcome of battle. I do my best to always thank them for revives/buffs/heals/mana(even during battle), and again afterwards.

As Legolas I whined, "Without 3 conjurors backing her Valorius is nothing."

Well, maybe, but those conjurors DO back me, and i am most thankful for it. :biggrin:

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Anyone who believes this statement is a fool

maybe you're the fool because you generalise?
I'd really be playing with such a guy rather than someone who just plays for the rp. I'd chose personal values over rp ANY time.
I've seen suggestions about rp being of some kind of use to buy things in the future, but haven't seen an official response from ngd, besides it'll just give a greater temptation for rp leeching and bad playing.
This statement is pretty pessimistic in people


And since this truth has now been exposed, NDG you can now lock the thread!
the truth is not one opinion dude.

btw what have the conjurers won? Please explain


Why, because the goal of the game, as it stands today, is to gain exp and rp.

That is NOT the goal, maybe for some people but not for everyone. Sorry but you are stupid because you fail to recognize that other players have an opinion too as you can see in the later posts.

In a battle I don't really care about rp, I care about playing effectively, having fun, putting up a good fight and giving my enemies a challenge as much as seeking a challenge myself.
With a good conjurer to support an army they can multiply it. I often ask for a bless from a conjurer right before I cast sultars because it then has a bigger chance of hitting the opposing army, that's teamwork. Then the "rp" doesn't really matter if we did put up a good fight and did a lot of teamwork.

[e30G]

No "effectively" in my opinion is getting an equal part of the exp that is gained from all team players.

For is this not a team play game?

(And for what it's worth the 10% dmg rule is ineffective in regards with my definition as well.)

I'm not so sure of XP but as far as RP goes, I am sure we get an equal and fair share. I know I do when I want to go after RP. Contrary to my "Retired" status in my signature, I still play several times per week.

However it's hardly a good way playing efficiently with the more immediate goal: Keeping yourself and your team alive. Even when I'm playing this way, I still get a fair share of RP. It is still more than what I would get if I were playing as a warjurer. Getting 14 or more rps for a kill where you did not do anything other than spam an area buff is in no way fair both to yourself and others.

I guess you are a fool, for as it stands today a conjurer that helps his teammates is not playing 100% effectively.

Why, because the goal of the game, as it stands today, is to gain exp and rp.

If that's the case, then I'd rather be a fool than fail my friends just for a few extra points.

To make such a statement fails realize 3 things:
(2) Your stance is counter productive for most conj's and in fact is not an acceptable solution to the impasse we face today.

The RP system is working fine if that's all you're after. However, I can not comment with XP since it has been a while since I have gone grinding to level. But from what I can tell from 2 months ago, I still got xp from helping my clan mates level. If they changed that system then I agree its wrong.


And (3), in order for us to move past this impasse the best solution would be to give a benefit to the conj for engaging in team play and one that is better then what can be gained from solo.

I agree with you here. However, this is a complicated matter which involves both how you and others play (and you made it clear that you can't dictate that) and the game system itself.

Until all see this, there really isn't a need to discuss the issue is there?

Yes because we haven't come up with that solution. Instead of calling people who have no regard for RP as a goal a fool, perhaps you can come up with a solution that works.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

well said ernest

[magnet]

The problem with your debate is that you're talking about two different things.

Spud is talking about EXPING, and clearly lacks fort war insight if he thinks Conjus can't get Rps at war by being full support.
Galynn is 50 and talking exclusively about War.

One problem is 10% rule, which limits the size of a party: a support conj, to get decent EXP, must support as many players as possible (because then areas are much more rewarding).

It should be replaced, like for player fighting, with the 2% rule.

But the true root of the problem is the utmost stupidity of using the same rewarding algorithm for player fights and exping.

The *nerf* of a Conjurer's earning (which is actually a decrease of the "active contribution timer" when you cast a buff on a teammate) has been thought for War where Conjurers got WAY too many Rps compared to other classes *at fort wars*. However, they get way fewer Rps in smaller fights. As an example, the other day with my *level 30* Conjurer (*full* support), I earned more than 500 rps in 6-7 hours. Which no class can do at the same level (yes, I can see the Rps and from the official ranking).

So NGD as always is focusing on big fights which is what Regnum is all about. *BUT* the stupidity comes from the fact that the awarding system is the same for Rps and Exp. The previous earning scheme was perfect for EXPing!

Obvious solutions then:
- SEPARATE the XP and RP awarding schemes and put back the previous values for Conjurers in the XP awarding scheme.
- DECREASE the contribution limit from 10% to 2% in EXPing too.

[e30G]

Yes Magnet you are right. I think separating the RP and XP systems would be the best way to go in that case.

[Nikor]

Anyone who believes this statement is a fool

Well, that makes me a fool then. Or might it be that this is a game where people are supposed to have fun? And that my idea of fun is a bit different than yours?

for (1) very few people in real life are truly altruistic in nature

I was mainly talking about myself, I try not to generalize. But I think there might be others thinking along the same lines.

2) NDG themselves have stated that RP's will allow one to buy things one day, or that there will be a purpose for RP's other then bragging rights.

Yes, maybe shortly after hell freezes over.

[Spud]

Well, that makes me a fool then. Or might it be that this is a game where people are supposed to have fun? And that my idea of fun is a bit different than yours?

You know people like you talk a good talk, but the truth is if there was no benefit at all (either recognition or the rp, for we have now determined that there is virtually none on the exp for a conj) you would leave.

It's human nature!


I was mainly talking about myself, I try not to generalize. But I think there might be others thinking along the same lines.

I don't generalize and proof of that is only a small handful of the conj's have come here claiming to be altruistic, which proved my point.


Spud is talking about EXPING...

Yes, I was mostly talking about exp where my knowledge is firmly set and although I lack insight on fort wars I can say that I been in a few, as a pure conj, and didn't like the rp's I was getting.

To note though my conj isn't lvl 50, more like lvl 36 or 37 (I forget it's been a while). But most of you will claim that wars are for the lvl 50's, which I think is bs as well should be for everyone (even lvl one's).

Every one, no matter the level, should gain equal benefits for engaging in pvp. However, to do this might need to separate out war zones by level, which will increase the land size of the game by 10 fold. It should be noted that this idea stems from the fact that NDG claimed that RP's will mean something one day, like buying items with them.

Obvious solutions then:
- SEPARATE the XP and RP awarding schemes and put back the previous values for Conjurers in the XP awarding scheme.
- DECREASE the contribution limit from 10% to 2% in EXPing too.

magnet, you rock good show! You came up with a very good solution other then casting altruistic praising of themselves and demanding others to follow suite.

And the reason that this is a good solution is because it will teach the budding conj that being pure conj can be beneficial to not only to his teammates, but also to him/herself. And in the end all benefit!

Yes, good solution magnet!

[mann2411]

so spud for you all of this arguement is about xp right? i thought this discussion was about the whole war thing if you gonna be lvlling might i suggest getting a summon /changing into a warjurer temporarily and ignore the cries for help for war its usually what i do after helping out three days in a row at stone(stupid alsius leave stone alont) every now and then when i know i gotta get down to training i just stop looking at the realm chat easily done no war no healing for you right and easier lvlling bidda bing badda boom done change the % values back yes i agree

[Spud]

so spud for you all of this arguement is about xp right? i thought this discussion was about the whole war thing if you gonna be lvlling might i suggest getting a summon /changing into a warjurer temporarily and ignore the cries for help for war its usually what i do after helping out three days in a row at stone(stupid alsius leave stone alont) every now and then when i know i gotta get down to training i just stop looking at the realm chat easily done no war no healing for you right and easier lvlling bidda bing badda boom done change the % values back yes i agree

No my argument was not about exp.

If you look at my original post, back on page 8, I was trying to explain, through a historical analysis, of how we arrived at the impasse that most in RO been bitching about conj's since the beginning of RO.

Those being: (1) to many warjurers, (2) the inability of some conj's to be helpful towards their realm-mates in wanting to play pure conj's, (3) the difference in perception between conj's and the rest of the RO community in where the problem lies, and (4) why some conj's feel their is no benefit to helping team players.

All these translate into the conj shortage we have today and why they would go on strike.

Also, in the preceding posts, I was trying to explain that as one learns the ropes in exp land, that which one learns can, and often is directly, translated into pvp land (for most).

The exp narf to conj's show they are not as valued as a team member when it comes to rewards. And that coupled with non-conj's expectations on how a conj should play - again only causes the impasse to widen between the conj and the rest of the RO community.

If a conj has no area spells, why should the conj not be without a summon?

Truth is expectation shouldn't change in way of exp vs rp gain it should stay the same, only thing should change is one should understand they are now fighting a human not artificial intelligence.

If you believe the two issues are separate - you are shortsighted.

[ncvr]

If a conj has no area spells, why should the conj not be without a summon?
Nobody is arguing against that.
All these translate into the conj shortage we have today and why they would go on strike.
The conjuror strike was proposed by Enatim, a warjuror and on that day only the warjurors went on strike. All it did was limit the supply of zarkits for enemy warlocks.

[Spud]

The conjuror strike... All it did was limit the supply of zarkits for enemy warlocks.

See its the perpetuation of this attitude, as well as others as I mentioned, set the RO (conj vs. non-conj) community towards the impasse it faces today.

And if you cannot see that then I truly hope conj's every never lift another finger to help any of their realm-mates ever again.

As I said in my first post, the conj has won. And trashing them more can only fuel the dissident nature of those conj's left playing.

You know with all the bitching done by the RO community about every little thing. And then NDG complying to the whims of the community - every great social aspect of this game (huge exp groups, an active pvp realm, mages able to actually hit their target without resists, and pure conj's reciving the benefit of their labor for helping others) has been killed.

This game is hollow and only the hardcores live on. Sad, sad indeed...

[ArcticWolf]

This game is hollow and only the hardcores live on. Sad, sad indeed...

And those of us who were hardcore in the old times can't go and fight because we've been nerfed so much that most of the enchantments and buffs doesn't really help. Oh, I forgot the "time" factor... I can't play because of my studies and some hardware issues.

[trash]

IMO 'defensive' marksmen with all their defensive spells maxed are clearly overpowered. I can't even hit one of those for 90dmg with my ulber xymerald bow, even with 2x deadly sight rings equipped.

What possessed NGD to give marksmen the spell "strategic positioning" is beyond me. Hunters are said to be hard to kill, but a marksman gets significantly more protection than a hunter does, and even set up for defense, still has far more firepower than a hunter of the same lvl.


Surely if marks didn't have more firepower or defence than a hunter of the same level, we would simply be hunters without pets, tracking, passive speed or invisibility. For someone who constantly goes on about balance like they have a god like handle on what's correct and what's flawed in this game, that was kinda...

I don't even have the words.

Hope your enjoying WoW darlin'...

[fluffy_muffin]

Surely if marks didn't have more firepower or defence than a hunter of the same level, we would simply be hunters without pets, tracking,
[...]

Marks 1 lvl lower than me:
Evade tear apart,
Evade dual shot,
evade normal hit,
evade ensaring,
Evade dual shot,
and than he put sotw. Yeah. Poor marks :>

[wakim42]

The 10% rule for xp is a pain for conjurers, yes. But I don't think that 2% rule for rp causes that much problems. Xzorstlok is #30 on the rp ranking list and Lord Victor is #10. I don't how supporting Lord Victor is, but Xzor is full support.

If Xzor is only 30th (in fact i see he isnt anymore in the general ranking) is because i didnt play him much for a while but when i connect him for some battles in Pinos i still earn many RPs probably much more than every one else on the field so i really don't see any reason to whine about rps.

For XP i can't really tell since i leveled long time ago before the contribution limit (which is a very good feature IMHO) but many of my friends leveled a conjurers and they always had good xp amount with support setup so once again people whining should perhaps see if another way of playing it may not be more rewardful. They maybe also should try some other class like knight to see wether there are really the ones that should whine about rp/xp.

[e30G]

If Xzor is only 30th (in fact i see he isnt anymore in the general ranking) is because i didnt play him much for a while but when i connect him for some battles in Pinos i still earn many RPs probably much more than every one else on the field so i really don't see any reason to whine about rps.

For XP i can't really tell since i leveled long time ago before the contribution limit (which is a very good feature IMHO) but many of my friends leveled a conjurers and they always had good xp amount with support setup so once again people whining should perhaps see if another way of playing it may not be more rewardful. They maybe also should try some other class like knight to see wether there are really the ones that should whine about rp/xp.

Yes Xzor RP's are working fine. From clan feedback, I heard there seems to be a problem with XP though. They still get XP but lower than before. Low enough for them to find soloing much faster than group leveling.

I think Magnet's assessment is a step forward in solving the problem. However, I think Spud's assessment on where the warjurer problem started isn't entirely correct.

Warjurers have always been there. Even when there were giant parties at Algaros and Alsius Beach warjurers have been abundant. That was way before the XP nerf. Back then, I was playing a hybrid setup. Very few were actually full support.

I think it boils down to the type of players who come to play this game. This game is primarily a war game, and players who come to play this are out to find a good challenging fight. It's only natural that some players who pick conjurers would still want to deal damage and go for the front lines.

Eventually, some learned that playing full-support reaped many benefits:


They remained alive longer and died less.
They could haul more RP and XP than a warjurer.
More players actually wanted to team up with them.


Even then, only a few went for a full support approach, primarily because of the type of players they were. They entered Regnum to enjoy fighting against others. To fight here means to deal as much damage as possible and kill an enemy player. It's not a bad thing, they simply chose the wrong class.

Some of you may say: "they should have chosen a warlock". But a conjurer sounds way better on paper. I mean how many classes can get a pet, heal itself and that pet, regenerate mana, level insanely fast, have a respectable amount of defense and still deal a fair amount of damage when combined with a pet? To a newbie, a conjurer sounds like a great well rounded, all around class.

To prove that point, there was even a time when Syrtis actually became a conjurer realm. There were so many conjurers. More than half of a fort battle group sometimes comprised of mid-level conjurers, and of these conjurers, only 2 or 3 were full support. This was still before the XP nerf. I sometimes dropped off a group because I thought that there were too many conjurers and really few tanks and damage-dealers.

So where are they now? Probably got frustrated when they realized they picked the wrong class and left the game. Maybe they simply got bored of the game or grew tired of the bugs and left. Many of the warjurers and conjurers have also started creating alternate characters, a lot of them started archers or barbs. The way I see it, these players simply want to do what they've always wanted to do in the game, and that is to fight, deal damage and kill. They can't do that with their conjurers so they simply moved on so they can have fun. Some of them simply grew tired of being 50, and sought after the challenge of learning and leveling another class. I for one created a knight a few weeks before they nerfed the damage, but that's a totally different story. :)

Now here is where Spud is correct. The XP nerf , combined with more people getting less warzone experience with the mob relocation means that more will fail to realize the benefits for themselves and the team if they simply support. The limited number of good spells and the number of bugged ones isn't helping either.

As for the alleged conjurer vs RO community thing, I think that conflict is non-existent. The only flames I have heard directed to a full support conjurer came from another warjurer. Full support conjurers are generally loved, respected and welcomed readily by the majority.

There is however a warjurer vs RO community conflict hence all the whining, flames and rudeness which lead to most of them going on strike. Full support conjurers did so well for their teams that they created a standard, one that any non-conjurer would wish every conjurer to be like.

Unfortunately, a vast majority of conjurers are warjurers, and it all boils down to the fact that they entered the game to fight. Again its not a bad thing for them, they just wanted to play the way they want (which is their right), but other players found this unsatisfactory. Eventually they grow tired and either quit the game or start another character.

Magnet's solution (bring the spell effect countdown to what it was before so that conjurers can get the same amount of XP as before) will help limit the problem and create more support conjurers. I know some conjurers are plainly in it because they want to help, but the current XP problems is making it difficult for them to level and become competitive and powerful enough for war. Solve the XP problems and some new warjurers may learn about the benefits and convert to support roles. But even then, if history has anything to say, warjurers are here to stay.

[Spud]

Now here is where Spud is correct. The XP nerf , combined with more people getting less warzone experience with the mob relocation means that more will fail to realize the benefits for themselves and the team if they simply support. The limited number of good spells and the number of bugged ones isn't helping either.

You capsulized exactly what I was trying to say about the how the exp narf adds to the impasse we face today in RO with having a (pure) conj shortage.

Also it should be noted that the exp narf only adds to the breeding of more warjurers, something that those who claimed that conj's were leaching exp failed to realize.

As for the alleged conjurer vs RO community thing, I think that conflict is non-existent.

If you go back and read my first post, on page 8, you will see that i stated that the conj vs RO community conflict was stemmed from the warjurer mentality, something that you seem to comment on, for example:

The only flames I have heard directed to a full support conjurer came from another warjurer... There is however a warjurer vs RO community conflict hence all the whining, flames and rudeness which lead to most of them going on strike.

But unlike most of the RO community I don't look at warjurers as a bad thing, because most have the ability to heal and give mana.

And since warjurers have always outnumbered pure conj's 50 to1, I think the best bet for the RO community is to try and get along with the warjurer and lower their expectations on what a true conj's duty is.

For as it stands now all the mechanisms in this game that would support the budding (pure) conj (path to exp in grouping, players to group with and probably more) are all but gone.


Magnet's solution (bring the spell effect countdown to what it was before so that conjurers can get the same amount of XP as before) will help limit the problem and create more support conjurers... Solve the XP problems and some new warjurers may learn about the benefits and convert to support roles. But even then, if history has anything to say, warjurers are here to stay.

Magnet's solution is indeed a good solution and would be a good start to helping the RO community getting (pure) conj's back again.

However, for those existing conj's, known as the warjurer, your hate towards them and demand for them to be pure can only fuel their dissident nature towards the rest of the community; which makes makes them more set in the belief that they are unwanted as a team player.


E30ernest in the end I just want to say: Good post man!

[Angelwinged_Devil]

And since warjurers have always outnumbered pure conj's 50 to1, I think the best bet for the RO community is to try and get along with the warjurer and lower their expectations on what a true conj's duty is.

I don't think you should expect anything from any class, the only thing you really can do is give advice based on experience/theories.


However, for those existing conj's, known as the warjurer, your hate towards them and demand for them to be pure can only fuel their dissident nature towards the rest of the community; which makes makes them more set in the belief that they are unwanted as a team player.


this is sadly true, from a psychological viewpoint. As I said before giving advice is the best thing you can do. Opinions too, but always in a humble and polite attitude, else the player won't listen. He could if he was inquisitive, but maybe he wouldn't nescesarily say "hey thanks for the advice dude."

I can admit that I "may" have cursed a bit at warjurers once or twice, but I try to always remain calm and give advice.
The keyword is: to make them feel special and that the job they do is highly appreciated and they are making a difference :D

[Spud]

As I said before giving advice is the best thing you can do.

Who is anyone to tell another player how to play, especially if that player never asked for your, so called, "advice"? In fact it's down right rude!

How the RO community has treated its fellow players, not just the warjure, is really sad.

So many here trying to carve out their own agendas on a small, but capable, development team. Don't think this goes unnoticed.

The truth is the mechanics of the game should be teaching the player, no matter the class, how to play there class (the timing of their skills, which skills are better in some situations, as well as the limitations of their skills, and what can be generally expected from their class) not the players.

Especially not those that sit above high demanding others to be cookie cut templates.

We already see how this mentality has effected RO and why it feels so hollow, but by all means keep passing on your "advice". Soon when the hardcores have left you will see the fruit of what your "advice" brings.

[Proteas]

Things have gotten so bad that, a few minutes ago 30 Syrtis marched to Pinos, including at least several Conjurors.
We met some Alsius along the way, and about 7 people died, but no one ever revived them.

Furthermore, more people died trying to defend the corpses long enough for Conjurors to come revive them.

None ever came.

I'm sure there was some legitimate reason, like wanting to help at the fort... but the best way to do that is with more people rather than a few extra heals... which leads me to believe they were looking for RP more than anything, as revives don't give RP, but 'sticking with the group' and spamming areas and such does.

So we all just gave up and revived, and told them to stop asking for help at Pinos if they don't revive their dead.

Edit: I do believe revive lv3, 4 and 5 give RP if the person gets a kill afterwards, but most people forget...



very good point. i was with a group of alsians and there were about 8 conjus.
the were in the frontlines trying to gain RP and not helping heal and revive.
i sat there waiting to be revived while several ppl defended the corpses from enemy attack. we lost the fort because conjus were not healing anyone but themselves. i think its quite selfless to reject a person in need of healing.

There are some conjus who are in the frontlines healing everyone and busting there asses to help everyone they can

MY GRATITUDE GOES OUT TO THOSE CONJURORS WHO DO HELP EVERYONE THEY CAN. OTHERS DONT BE SO SELFLESS AND HELP YOUR REALM AND ITS PEOPLE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ncvr]

very good point. i was with a group of alsians and there were about 8 conjus.
the were in the frontlines trying to gain RP and not helping heal and revive.
i sat there waiting to be revived while several ppl defended the corpses from enemy attack. we lost the fort because conjus were not healing anyone but themselves. i think its quite selfless to reject a person in need of healing.

There are some conjus who are in the frontlines healing everyone and busting there asses to help everyone they can

MY GRATITUDE GOES OUT TO THOSE CONJURORS WHO DO HELP EVERYONE THEY CAN. OTHERS DONT BE SO SELFLESS AND HELP YOUR REALM AND ITS PEOPLE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just so you know, it's often best to just press 'Ressurect' when you die at a fort in your own realm. Unless you are saved at Trelle save and die at Pinos or something like that.

A conjuror also gets more rp(provided that it is a large group) by staying at the back healing those in the front and casting auras like Mana Communion and Greater Healing. IF you're the type that's obsessed with rps, that is :P.

[Spud]

MY GRATITUDE GOES OUT TO THOSE CONJURORS WHO DO HELP EVERYONE THEY CAN. OTHERS DONT BE SO SELFLESS AND HELP YOUR REALM AND ITS PEOPLE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When are you people going to realize that bitching about this issue will do nothing to solve the issue, but promote more of the same behavior?

Your bitching does nothing to solve a broken game mechanic that allows for the propagation of the warjure mentality.

Until you realize this your bitching falls on deaf ears.

Also proclaiming that selflessness acts are the highest honor in a game that promotes team rewards, and bragging rights to the top exp, rp whores is hardly going to win over the few conj's left playing.

But hay if you get off beating a dead horse - so be it.

A conjuror also gets more rp by staying at the back healing ...IF you're [not] the type that's obsessed with rps, that is :P.

LOL, sure whaterver!

[ncvr]

LOL, sure whaterver!

I get plenty of rp by casting lvl 5 communion and protection dome as well as lvl 4 buffs when I set myself up for full support on my warlock(just to see what it was like). And I don't even have the lower cooldown heal spells. Sorry if it's not the case with you.

[Proteas]

Spud,

If u want to keep dying and not having a healer heal u then fine stop bitching about this subject

[Spud]

Spud,

If u want to keep dying and not having a healer heal u then fine stop bitching about this subject

Just so you know man, Spud be a pure conj. ;)

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Who is anyone to tell another player how to play, especially if that player never asked for your, so called, "advice"? In fact it's down right rude!

How the RO community has treated its fellow players, not just the warjure, is really sad.

So many here trying to carve out their own agendas on a small, but capable, development team. Don't think this goes unnoticed.

The truth is the mechanics of the game should be teaching the player, no matter the class, how to play there class (the timing of their skills, which skills are better in some situations, as well as the limitations of their skills, and what can be generally expected from their class) not the players.

Especially not those that sit above high demanding others to be cookie cut templates.

We already see how this mentality has effected RO and why it feels so hollow, but by all means keep passing on your "advice". Soon when the hardcores have left you will see the fruit of what your "advice" brings.
so the hardcores leave because of my advice? I'm a so called "hardcore" myself, giving advice doesn't mean they have to listen to it, only if they want to, they can give feedback on it and maybe I'm the one who will learn something.

oh and necrovaron, you can only save at the save altars on your realms wz side, I once tried doing it at the ignis wall save XD

[e30G]

I think that's what he meant AWD. ;) He was referring to Alsirian saves because he is assuming the poster of the message he quoted was from Alsius.

[mann2411]

conjurers havent won anything if im in a hunt with a conjurer and he doesnt heal/mana/buff i simply a)run off on him b)screw the hunt
i recommend that everyone does the same to the conjurers that dont heal.
they dont heal we dont help

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I think that's what he meant AWD. ;) He was referring to Alsirian saves because he is assuming the poster of the message he quoted was from Alsius.
oh -.-', I don't know what realm he is from but I think it's ignis, I saw one post from him before offering to heal people who are levelling regardless of level which means he doesn't really care about exp XD

[ncvr]

oh -.-', I don't know what realm he is from but I think it's ignis, I saw one post from him before offering to heal people who are levelling regardless of level which means he doesn't really care about exp XD
I was talking to the guy with the alsius avatar.

[Spud]

oh -.-', I don't know what realm he is from but I think it's ignis, I saw one post from him before offering to heal people who are levelling regardless of level which means he doesn't really care about exp XD

AwD he was talking about your comment to Necrovaron, not me.

However, yes I am from Ignis, and that post was over 5 months ago, but in there I was asking anyone (or group of people) lvl 28+, when I was lvl 32, if they wanted a personal heal/mana/buff whore for either exp or pvp.

The motivation behind it was to three fold: (1) to help my realm-mates, (2) get exp, rp and (3) let my realm-mates know of a pure conj always willing to help.

Funny thing is though that after I posted that I got a lot of people asking for help.

And the behavior of those people that asked for my help, I thought, was funny because most of them offered to pay me for my time, in either items, gold or both. I can even remember when there was a group of three (a hunter, barb, and I believe knight) who asked me how long I would be willing to stay with them and after I replied, I believe I said two hours, they wanted give me items up front, because they started to initiate trading with me, and when I refused their trade offers they said they would not hunt with me unless they could pay me up front!

And the reason that this struck me as odd is because, for me, being able to gain exp from helping others was reward enough. Also knowing how hard was to keep people's health level max, keep up on buffs and keep mana levels up mand the time fly. I never got board beign a pure conj, that I can say.

Trust me the battle between the warjure and the rest of RO community has been a sad one, and I have witnessed it from a non-conj perspective (my first toon was a hunter) and as a conj.

But I really do believe that it's time to put the past behind us now and try to build a new tomorrow.

And the only way that can be done, I believe, is if the non-conj community started to accept the warjure and stop treating the warjure as the black sheep of their realm. And I state this only because, being a pure conj, I know how few pure conj's there are in this game.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I was talking to the guy with the alsius avatar.
oh I'll be damned, I thought it was to spud, oh well.

@spud wow, it's a good idea to offer gold to the pure conjurers :p, but well, I think mages are already the richest in game, or the ones who are having the easiest times getting rich because their repair rate is pretty low.

I would have never thought of this because I forget about gold most of the time and are more interested in helping my teammates. Maybe I should'ave been a conjurer XD. I have a conjurer though, or a mage level 1 called your mom.

[meldarion]

Everything has been said a couple of times over, but one idea has not been mentioned.

As a team, you fight together. Hence your experience grows not only between you and the mob, but also between yourself and your teammates.

One thing that I believe could "solve" or bring conjurors back into team-playing is the expansion of experience/rp.

Lets explain that by an example. Say by yourself you kill a mob: 100xp. Currently that XP is shared out plus a small group bonus. I think that this group bonus should be increased for those who get less XP because of their defensive nature.

Same with RP - if you get 15 rp for killing a player, two people should get 10 RP each (for example!!!) if they kill that player together.

It makes sense to acknowledge that XP/RP doesn't come from hit-points ONLY. It ALSO comes from support/defensive spells/etc.

Currently the system is to reward the biggest hitters, but why not make it reward the people in the team that give the team a higher "safety rating" - meaning the team is safer because of a particular player.

I believe our problems are because of the technology (namely the game). I've found it impossible to level with other people due to me getting ~60xp about 4/10 times because I missed casting spells in time. Personally I can get 220-300xp EVERY time with a Zarkit.

Even if I got 100xp EVERY time in a team, I would be happy to be there. But the "Will I get xp this mob???? ..... ..... ...... Darn...." just gets to me and I feel like I am wasting my time.

I think that we need to look at the technology at the source of the problem, not the people. If they were given the opportunity to play a pure conjuror for rewards, I believe you would see more conjurors. People are not the issue here. They are just trying to get by in what is a sticky situation because of XP/RP nerfs.

[ByteMe]

Everything has been said a couple of times over, but one idea has not been mentioned.

As a team, you fight together. Hence your experience grows not only between you and the mob, but also between yourself and your teammates.

One thing that I believe could "solve" or bring conjurors back into team-playing is the expansion of experience/rp.

Lets explain that by an example. Say by yourself you kill a mob: 100xp. Currently that XP is shared out plus a small group bonus. I think that this group bonus should be increased for those who get less XP because of their defensive nature.

Same with RP - if you get 15 rp for killing a player, two people should get 10 RP each (for example!!!) if they kill that player together.

It makes sense to acknowledge that XP/RP doesn't come from hit-points ONLY. It ALSO comes from support/defensive spells/etc.

Currently the system is to reward the biggest hitters, but why not make it reward the people in the team that give the team a higher "safety rating" - meaning the team is safer because of a particular player.

I believe our problems are because of the technology (namely the game). I've found it impossible to level with other people due to me getting ~60xp about 4/10 times because I missed casting spells in time. Personally I can get 220-300xp EVERY time with a Zarkit.

Even if I got 100xp EVERY time in a team, I would be happy to be there. But the "Will I get xp this mob???? ..... ..... ...... Darn...." just gets to me and I feel like I am wasting my time.

I think that we need to look at the technology at the source of the problem, not the people. If they were given the opportunity to play a pure conjuror for rewards, I believe you would see more conjurors. People are not the issue here. They are just trying to get by in what is a sticky situation because of XP/RP nerfs.

100% agree with that. When I level my conju, they are setup for 100% offense. When a few in the clan want to level, I will then reset and follow them around but get almost no XP for allowing them to go non-stop with full mana and health. :thumb_up:

[Spud]

Everything has been said a couple of times over, but one idea has not been mentioned.

As a team, you fight together. Hence your experience grows not only between you and the mob, but also between yourself and your teammates.

One thing that I believe could "solve" or bring conjurors back into team-playing is the expansion of experience/rp.

Lets explain that by an example. Say by yourself you kill a mob: 100xp. Currently that XP is shared out plus a small group bonus. I think that this group bonus should be increased for those who get less XP because of their defensive nature.

Same with RP - if you get 15 rp for killing a player, two people should get 10 RP each (for example!!!) if they kill that player together.

It makes sense to acknowledge that XP/RP doesn't come from hit-points ONLY. It ALSO comes from support/defensive spells/etc.

Currently the system is to reward the biggest hitters, but why not make it reward the people in the team that give the team a higher "safety rating" - meaning the team is safer because of a particular player.

I believe our problems are because of the technology (namely the game). I've found it impossible to level with other people due to me getting ~60xp about 4/10 times because I missed casting spells in time. Personally I can get 220-300xp EVERY time with a Zarkit.

Even if I got 100xp EVERY time in a team, I would be happy to be there. But the "Will I get xp this mob???? ..... ..... ...... Darn...." just gets to me and I feel like I am wasting my time.

I think that we need to look at the technology at the source of the problem, not the people. If they were given the opportunity to play a pure conjuror for rewards, I believe you would see more conjurors. People are not the issue here. They are just trying to get by in what is a sticky situation because of XP/RP nerfs.

Finally someone who gets it! Good job meldarion and I agree with you post 100%.

If everyone understood this paradigm it would go a long ways to resolving the crisis that RO now faces.

Also this paradigm would would act as a foundation, for those who have eyes to see, in which to understand many of the broken game mechanics that don't promote team play, or one to understand the role of their class.

Instead most people try to push their own agendas trying to maintain their hegemonic power, while telling everyone else that they are either not skilled, pick bad templates or even overpowered.

Rock on meldarion!

[Proteas]

well i have a lvl 50 conju on alsius and he doesnt get treated very well no thanks for healing or anything like that.

so im not going to play a conju until people start to realise that we deserve the respect of our fellow alsians :rale:

[mann2411]

heh you might say alsius are a little short on people gettit short your all midgets. i have never gotten angry at conjurers i always say"heal plz" and "ty" when i get it im sure there are many like me just that it does become hard to try and type and fight at the same time
so i cant remember how many skills conjurers can fully lvl up but anyway
why not just lvl
healing, mana control and a summon or mental that way you can still fight and still heal i still agree with the 2% change in xp
also about healing what about hunters im never thanked for tracking i havent seen a hunter who has. the diffrence between heals and tracking is i dont get xp/rp for tracks and i still waste my mana in which i dont get any back because some people think of it neccessary to not want to play their conjurers for something i dont even know what they want

so tell me conjurers WHAT DO U WANT me to do
all this forum is is explaining why its bad
@ katiechan
1) we dont know whos attacking you
2) everyone gets dizzied yer it sucks but what can you do?
3) so yes ive left a class behind once or twice but the only times i do it is when i see impossible odds in the battle we're fighting
example: me a barb and a conjurer hunting then 10 dwarfs pop outta nowhere course im not gona stay but if the barb/conju gets caught up and killed hows that my fault that i got away most of the time it would be me anyway so i dont know
do you conjurers just not want to be hurt? ok ill work on that

[ncvr]

Conjurors can't have offense because they should have at least...
Staff Mastery:15
Life: MAX
Mana Control: MAX or 15
Scorcery: MAX
Then they have enchantments, which can be at any lvl(best to have at 15 for spells like lvl 4 bless weapon). But some conjus don't use enchantments.

...and even mages don't have enough points for the offense needed. Unless your idea of offense is walking around with an arcane missile which does 200 dmg and a lvl 1 specter doing 70 dmg...

[Spud]

also... what about hunters[;] im never thanked for tracking [and] i havent seen a hunter who has. the diffrence between heals and tracking is i dont get xp/rp for tracks and i still waste my mana in which i dont get... back...

Here you bring up another broken game mechanic and this one seems to tell the hunter that his talents (skills) are meant for solo.

Proof of this is that the hunter has no skill which is beneficial to the group (other then group stealth, but that does not return exp/rp as well).

Though the hunter does have a skill which, if used, increases the incentive for him to stick around groups, but the benefit is to the hunter not the group.

And I often wondered, as I leveled my conj, hunter or 'lock in the wz, if this is why I saw the hunter alone and often without a group in the wz. And what I also saw was that this trend increased exponentially if s/he is a hunter not reliant on pets (but one would think now that hunters can revive their fallen pet that this will/has changed).

Even in fort wars, that I experienced, the hunter (as well as the marks) seemed to act independent of the group.

Which brings us to another broken mechanic: The hunter (as well as the marks) can level without ever losing mana or hp.

Thus, such broken mechanics can only lend itself to breeding a solo lifestyle that shuns the group dynamic. And this can only increase the more people find out about such broken mechanics.

so tell me conjurers WHAT DO U WANT me to do

mann2411, with RO in its current state there is nothing you can do and truly you are not to blame, nor is any player.

However, what you can do mann2411 is to recognize these broken mechanics and how these broken mechanics change the underlying foundations of team play and relations among the players. And then actively seek ways to change these broken mechanics.

[ncvr]

I don't think a hunter can lvl without losing mana or hp, I only think a marks, warlock or conj can lvl without resting.

Proof of this is that the hunter has no skill which is beneficial to the group (other then group stealth, but that does not return exp/rp as well).
I think Stalker Surroundings does give credit, it's a positive spell, and all positive spells give credit.

[mann2411]

hunters can lvl without losing health or the way i do it now i can
its simple really attack from the furthert distance possible and hit the mob with ensnaring arrow to slow it and time the attacks enough so that you can move backwards just after you hit and if you hit them with shield pierce or something else and then the mobs dead after awhile. its possible the only problem i face is when i run out of mana so the mob can charge full speed at me which means he can get to me before i kill him

[Spud]

I don't think a hunter can lvl without losing mana or hp, I only think a marks, warlock or conj can lvl without resting.

This is a false assessment, which makes me beleve that this:

I think Stalker Surroundings does give credit, it's a positive spell, and all positive spells give credit.

is also a false assessment.


I know for a fact that hunters can level without losing mana or hp- I leveled like that from lvl 35-36.

Also I have been under stalker surroundings and never recived exp (i call rp exp sometimes when I am in a rush - ill leave it here though, but I mean rp not exp) because in order to get exp you have to kill a person, which breaks the spell.

But I concede that my hunter is (was) low level and thus my spell for group steath was low too. We need high level hunters to verify this one.

[ncvr]

hunters can lvl without losing health or the way i do it now i can
its simple really attack from the furthert distance possible and hit the mob with ensnaring arrow to slow it and time the attacks enough so that you can move backwards just after you hit and if you hit them with shield pierce or something else and then the mobs dead after awhile. its possible the only problem i face is when i run out of mana so the mob can charge full speed at me which means he can get to me before i kill him
Exactly.

Lvling non stop is keeping your mana topped.

Also I have been under stalker surroundings and never recived exp (i call rp exp sometimes when I am in a rush - ill leave it here though, but I mean rp not exp) because in order to get exp you have to kill a person, which breaks the spell.
I know for a fact that if somebody casts a positive spell on me, and a *short* while later I kill something, the person who cast the positive spell on me gets some credit provided his spell was high enough lvl.

[Spud]

Lvling non stop is keeping your mana topped.

I hate to break it to ya but you don't need mana to level a hunter. ;)

[Proteas]

I hate to break it to ya but you don't need mana to level a hunter. ;)
i need mana to level up my hunter

[Spud]

i need mana to level up my hunter

Even with the miss rate as high as it is now, one still does not need mana - just patience and the skill to dance :guitar:

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Even with the miss rate as high as it is now, one still does not need mana - just patience and the skill to dance :guitar:
this is true actually...

and even if stalker surroundings doesn't give rp it probably had the keypoint in the battle and so the real credit goes to the hunter. But yes, if the spell level is high enough and the enemy gets killed shortly after you go visible the hunter will gain rp

[Malik2]

At level 32, I typically lvl my hunter using only shield piercing and a pet. Using a "shoot and back-up" method I can usually defeat any normal mob while getting hit just once or twice. Meaning my mana will recharge itself during the course of the fight.

So I can almost go practically indefinately. After a while I'll need to sit to recover, but that can be after as much as 15 battles.

Compared to my barbarian who needs to rest after every third or fourth mob of the same diffficulty when going solo.

[octopus]

100% agree with that. When I level my conju, they are setup for 100% offense. When a few in the clan want to level, I will then reset and follow them around but get almost no XP for allowing them to go non-stop with full mana and health. :thumb_up:

This is a sad situation. When I was leveling my conjurer a few months ago, I got tons of XP by doing nothing but supporting others. That is how it should be. I mean, fighting monsters should be a preparation for fighting against other players. It doesn't make sense that you'd need to use a completely offensive set of skills to be effective against mobs, and a completely different skill-set for fighting players. This does nothing but reduce the fun and effectiveness of conjurers across the board.

I can see why others have not been playing conjurer as much lately, especially as support. My previously primary character, a level 50 support conjurer, has been stuck in a closet, and I've been playing nothing but my warlock for the past few weeks.

NGD, please concentrate on improving conjurers soon. It's nice that you've been spending the past 6 months improving hunters, but maybe it's time to focus on another class for a bit.

[daehenob]

I've read this thread over the past couple of days, but I don't recall if NGD have acknowledged that this thread - and issue - even exist? I would really like to know what, if anything, is being done to resolve it.

And count me in with the "disgruntled conjurer" lot. ;)

[Spud]

I can see why others have not been playing conjurer as much lately, especially as support. My previously primary character, a level 50 support conjurer, has been stuck in a closet, and I've been playing nothing but my warlock for the past few weeks.

And this shows an interesting dynamic as well: That the 'lock has skills that make it so s/he doesn't need a group in order to gain exp/rp.

Truly those that suffer the most from these broken mechanics are the melee classes - (especially) the barb as well as the knight. Because the solo path for the melee class is so time consuming, full of resting and death.

We've come full circle now, well at least I have, and through this it seems clear why, even in huge fort wars, there is little team play. Most fort wars that I've been too seemed like a big tug of war. Where two groups stand opposite of each other and as one group moves forward the other moves back, the other group moves forward the other one moves back... on and on it goes.

Seeing this only suggests to the onlooker that this action is more indicative of a bunch of solo'rs coming together then team players.

Which suggests that RO, as a game, is like a first person shooter rapped up in the frame work of an rpg. And rp whoring, and the class templates that support it, only exasperates this situation.

[ncvr]

I hate to break it to ya but you don't need mana to level a hunter. ;)
I was replying to brad, who said he does. Meaning that he cannot lvl non stop without someone to help him.

[trulyem]

well i have a lvl 50 conju on alsius and he doesnt get treated very well no thanks for healing or anything like that.

so im not going to play a conju until people start to realise that we deserve the respect of our fellow alsians

Who are you in game?

[ncvr]

Who are you in game?
I wanted to know that too.

[mann2411]

I was replying to brad, who said he does. Meaning that he cannot lvl non stop without someone to help him.
well i prefer not to lvl with others actually

[DkySven]

I can see why others have not been playing conjurer as much lately, especially as support. My previously primary character, a level 50 support conjurer, has been stuck in a closet, and I've been playing nothing but my warlock for the past few weeks.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not Meghan! We miss your conjurer.