New Camouflage Times

[makarios68]

I wanted to guage people's reaction to the new, longer cam times (LOL, as tho i can't already guess.)

Here's my 2 penny's worth:

It's great if you're a hunter.

But on balance, I think it is a disaster.

It was, as far as i can gather, designed to make hunters use cam for offense instead of using it to escape all the time.

If this was the aim, then it is a complete failure, because hunters are using it more than ever to escape, and escape more easily.

The longer cast time doesn't matter, because they cast it in SOW.

And the longer duration makes capturing the hunter virtually impossible.

Before the update, you could expect the hunter to reappear within a reasonable time. But if they cast cam now you might as well call off the chase.

Because of this, i think other classes are now more frustrated than ever with the hunter class.

In a selfish way i like the new times, coz my main char is a hunter and he is now harder to kill.

But for the sake of balance, i think the old times were fairer to other classes.

[DkySven]

Yes, when I see a hunter casting camou I retreat to a save or fort because I don't know where and when(how much hp have I at that momen?) he strikes.

[Comp]

I agree with Wudy on this one. I truly think that SoW should be modified such that you can not case any offensive powers PERIOD. If camo was ment to be offensive then it would prevent a hunter from using a defensive spell to initiate an offensive tactic.

[aric_swartzell]

Although I love the new camo (it's closer to oldschool DnD). I agree there's an imbalance in being able to cast it unmolested. It's considered offensive, shouldn't be able to be casted in SOW.

[Znurre]

Good point Wudy.

[Mellion]

At the end of a fight i dont have that much mana to cast 1. Sow and 2. Camo.

Btw. at the end of 95% of my fights the enemy is dead.

[Arkenion]

At the end of a fight i dont have that much mana to cast 1. Sow and 2. Camo.

Btw. at the end of 95% of my fights the enemy is dead.
OH WOW YOU SO GOOD WILL YOU TEACH ME!! PLEEASE

[LuthienNenharma]

OH WOW YOU SO GOOD WILL YOU TEACH ME!! PLEEASE
A player who played most of the classes on a high lvl knows about their pros and cons. So it is easy to understand why he is good in killing the enemy.

[Arkenion]

A player who played most of the classes on a high lvl knows about their pros and cons. So it is easy to understand why he is good in killing the enemy.
It's not about that at all. Who comes to a forum and says how good he is? Cmon you just don't do that.

[mrclean]

Indeed, is really scaring. By the way, today I got killed about 10 times by syrtis hunters... I'm stopping to play right now. Probably is just a break for some hours, probably not cause I'm really pissed of.

The lag makes impossible to play in fort wars for me, while also in little groups the pet of hunters hit me like 3 or 4 time instantenously. If I go alone to try to loot some item there's suddenly an arrow on my back.

I'll check later if will be possible to play.

Probably I'm gone off topic, sorry... But I think that now indeed, life for hunters is even easier...

[Ertial]

The new camouflage is a great spell ... for hunters. Although 4,5 casting time is a lot, the duration is very long. The penalty isn't very much. 25% makes you slow, but we've got our passive and we can walk quite a lot. The idea behind it is good, and typically something for hunters, but it should be made harder to cast. Maybe another half second to the casting time and they shouldn't be able to cast it under SotW.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

The new camouflage is a great spell ... for hunters. Although 4,5 casting time is a lot, the duration is very long. The penalty isn't very much. 25% makes you slow, but we've got our passive and we can walk quite a lot. The idea behind it is good, and typically something for hunters, but it should be made harder to cast. Maybe another half second to the casting time and they shouldn't be able to cast it under SotW.
and that even if you evade a shot/spell it will be canceled anyway. This should make it the stalker spell it was intended to

[mrclean]

This doesn't happen... I casted many times trip/feint on hunters but they disappear as nothing happened... But I would test it cause I think lag can have a relevant part in that.

[Myxir]

I said it in "current changes on amun" already several times. I totally HATE the new camouflage. It's purely madness with SotW.
A great adjustment would be if you would not be able to cast Camouflage in SotW. It adds a nice tactical method to wars but for hunts it is a bit too strong.
Well... as already said.. it's quite unrealistic that a hunter has so much mana remaining at the end of a fight to cast sotw+camo.

[fluffy_muffin]

I agree with Wudy on this one. I truly think that SoW should be modified such that you can not case any offensive powers PERIOD. If camo was ment to be offensive then it would prevent a hunter from using a defensive spell to initiate an offensive tactic.
I think the same.

[Myxir]

I think the same.
It's strange that so many hunters think about it the same way, isn't it? Shouldn't that be a sign for NGD? :wiggle14:

[ljwolfe]

yep, hunters are pretty overpowered with this. then again, we have casters blocking arrows and knights evading them. pretty fked up all around.

[El_Naso]

Indeed, is really scaring. By the way, today I got killed about 10 times by syrtis hunters... I'm stopping to play right now. Probably is just a break for some hours, probably not cause I'm really pissed of.

The lag makes impossible to play in fort wars for me, while also in little groups the pet of hunters hit me like 3 or 4 time instantenously. If I go alone to try to loot some item there's suddenly an arrow on my back.

I'll check later if will be possible to play.
I second that. Can´t go anywhere.

[fluffy_muffin]

This doesn't happen... I casted many times trip/feint on hunters but they disappear as nothing happened... But I would test it cause I think lag can have a relevant part in that.
Use normal hit. Just like we tested it with Milk. Imo all dmg done to hunter should cancel it but it doesn't :/ Feint should work if it work if not then shazam hunter is invisible.

[Myxir]

I second that. Can´t go anywhere.
That's crap. The danger of being hunted always existed. Concerning this nothing has changed. If you see the hunter before being killed or not does not really change this fact.

[misaccc]

yep, hunters are pretty overpowered with this. then again, we have casters blocking arrows and knights evading them. pretty fked up all around.

and marksman evading and casting 1k spells...:smile:

[makarios68]

I truly think that SoW should be modified such that you can not case any offensive powers PERIOD. If camo was ment to be offensive then it would prevent a hunter from using a defensive spell to initiate an offensive tactic.

Yes, either revert back to the old times or disallow the casting of camo in SOW.

Before the update, i protested that camo ought to be casted in SOW because of the long cast time. After seeing myself and other hunters having so much success with this, i've changed my mind.

And as Myxir said, it's surprising how many hunters are saying this, for the sake of balance...

[makarios68]

Don't know if this was mentioned yet but in the future mages will be able to cancel camo with area dispel.

I've heard that mentioned too.

If it happens, it will be a major problem for hunters, and may be the way to balance the new longer camo times.

[ncvr]

We don't know what the chances of success from the new dispell will be yet.

[Valorius]

yep, hunters are pretty overpowered with this. then again, we have casters blocking arrows and knights evading them. pretty fked up all around.
That sums it up for me, and is one of the main reasons i left. NGD has taken a good game, and gone backwards with it for the last several updates in a row.

[_dracus_]

Yep I don't like this update, like Wudy said, good luck everyone to try to catch a hunter alone.

[zero-ena]

You may be right... yet... im not sure... to cast Camouflage in SOW you must spend al least 720 mana. That is half of hunters mana. I ask my self this... if most classes can damage you for over a 1000 with les than the 1/5 af their mana (we can not do that for less 500), why should i not, have a graet posibility to escape, if i use half of mine? I m speaking of "great chance" of escaping, not "complete succses" in escaping.

So, may be, a posible solution is to decrease evasion "during" camouflage casting.

I dont know... this is a war game, where leveling zones are inside realms for every users advantage. New camouflege forces users, NOT to be alone while in War Zone. Something that is not so crazy, isn t it?

Regards, Zeroena.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

You may be right... yet... im not sure... to cast Camouflage in SOW you must spend al least 720 mana. That is half of hunters mana. I ask my self this... if most classes can damage you for over a 1000 with les than the 1/5 af their mana (we can not do that for less 500), why should i not, have a graet posibility to escape, if i use half of mine? I m speaking of "great chance" of escaping, not "complete succses" in escaping.

hunters aren't damage dealing classes, and 1000 is totally bullcrap, with the right evasionsetup it'll be 200 of what is not evaded

[fluffy_muffin]

hunters aren't damage dealing classes, and 1000 is totally bullcrap, with the right evasionsetup it'll be 200 of what is not evaded

Do you want test hunter evasion on arena or not?
Amun is up.

You do not have hunter don't you? So do not call Reki liar.
SC is over 1k hit, with all buffs. I had 900-1000hits from marks - with my buffs. So next time think twice before posting.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Do you want test hunter evasion on arena or not?
Amun is up.
I'm getting ready to do homework :/ I always log in at night

[Ertial]

I don't agree that camouflage should be cancelled, even if you evade a shot. And I also don't like the area-dispell. Camouflage is a skill, the hunter uses to environment to hide in, he doesn't use magic(at least, that's what the description says) and now you're suggesting to make casting camouflage very hard and even after that there is a great change of losing it again. If it will be made that hard I think there will be a lot less users who are going to use the spell, since it's not worth the trouble anymore.(and a lot of people will be happy with that...well, let's have a look how barbs respond when casting onslaught is made almost impossible)
I do agree that there should be something done to camouflage, but not that much.

[zero-ena]

hunters aren't damage dealing classes, and 1000 is totally bullcrap, with the right evasionsetup it'll be 200 of what is not evaded
Hello, Angelwinged_Devil;

first, i would realy apreciate if you address to me with better maners, i do respect you, i hope you do the same for me.

Second, i truly disagree about hunters not been a damage dealing class. As in any class, it is player choosen discipline configuration what defines the ways of character merits and defects, or if you prefer her capability to do harm or to resist it. But of course, you allready know that.

Hunters, game playing has change a lot since the begining of the game. Even now, i can say with confidence, that there is no othes subclass in game that has sufered as many changes in this aspect as hunters did. It is well known, the hard childhood this subclass had, and the many changes that will still have in future. The spanish word "Pícaro", surely fits in what could be a definition of hunters in this game. That's why hunters will be alway a controversial subclass. I just hope you understand that, and try to balance game in a most fair way and not through calling "bullcrap" other people opinions.

Regards, Zeroena.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Hello, Angelwinged_Devil;

first, i would realy apreciate if you address to me with better maners, i do respect you, i hope you do the same for me.

I'm sorry... it wasn't my intention, but I do respect you, I just think that bringing other classes powers/spells and saying they are overpowered really means nothing when they do not hit.
Again I'm sorry for saying bullcrap :). Thanks for not taking it any further.


Second, i truly disagree about hunters not been a damage dealing class. As in any class, it is player choosen discipline configuration what defines the ways of character merits and defects, or if you prefer her capability to do harm or to resist it. But of course, you allready know that.

you are right about that, but I think the intention with the hunter class was not to make it a damage dealing class (offensive class) but a defensive class and thus have almost no damaging powers like a conjurer or a knight has when it gets compared to the offensive classes.

Hunters, game playing has change a lot since the begining of the game. Even now, i can say with confidence, that there is no othes subclass in game that has sufered as many changes in this aspect as hunters did. It is well known, the hard childhood this subclass had, and the many changes that will still have in future. The spanish word "Pícaro", surely fits in what could be a definition of hunters in this game. That's why hunters will be alway a controversial subclass. I just hope you understand that, and try to balance game in a most fair way and through calling "bullcrap" other people opinions.

Regards, Zeroena.
they definately have, and yes hunters is a different class which I believe is what makes them fun to play (you can go invisible, and there are so many more possibilities with this than just killing people.)
But yes, I do try to balance the game the most fair way. I like a challenge and testing out my skills, but when I have no chance it's not really that fun.

It makes me think of two things, guitar hero clone I play for my pc, didn't start by playing easy I went straight to amazing and can now take some of the faster stuff.
the other thing is one of my classmates playing some weird game
me: umm can you die in it?
my classmate: not really, after some time your machine is upgraded enough to take almost no damage
me: how boring

[Ertial]

Knights and conjurers are also a defensive class. Still they can do a lot of damage. I don't see why that should be made impossible for hunters, if even conjurers can do a lot of damage(if they want to). That's just unfair.

[zero-ena]

I'm sorry... it wasn't my intention, but I do respect you, I just think that bringing other classes powers/spells and saying they are overpowered really means nothing when they do not hit.
Again I'm sorry for saying bullcrap :). Thanks for not taking it any further.

Apology taken, very noble of you.

By the way, i wanted to explain something that may be was unundestood cause i am an awfull writter in this language (sorry for that). When i bring back other classes powers/spells issue, i wanted to show wich is the counterbalance NGD did to hunter class. No masive damage powers, but good escaping hability. I was not trying to complain about other classes. Hope now i have made my self more claer.

Regards, Zeroena.

[aric_swartzell]

Actually knights AFAIK do more damage than hunters, and have more defense. but they're hella slow and have no range.

[Aries202]

how do knights do so much dmg the only skill that goes over 1k is SC.... this new camo is stupid its awsome for you hunters but any hunter can go behind a rock or tree or anything and cast it its not so hard and like ya said evadiing/blocking is based on luck when we block 10 times in a row its based on luck ya cant block that much times because our armor we use... a hunter will never get cought with this new camo they can be around you while training and you wont notice they'll be watching and waiting.. like ninjas... yes i played with a hunter its really retarted no hunters are not overpowered but this new camo has to be nerfed 90 seconds cmon how about making AoO 90 seconds that would be retarted right

[aric_swartzell]

I believe NGD sees camo as a means to get into attack position without being seen. That's how it works in the other games i've played that use stealth. I think the problem lies with people that use it to escape after attacking. Take for example NwN, You could (with the proper skills) stay invisible for eternity as long as you didn't do certain actions like attack, after your first attack (which counted for sneak damage) you would lose your invisibility. You couldn't then hide again while the person was looking at you or attacking or whatever, without a very special skill, even then it wasn't a sure thing. Adding to the problem is the fact that hunters can cast it while under SotW which pretty much means it's a sure thing your gonna get away. I think camo should stay where it is, I think they should remove the ability to cast it while under SotW. And I think that if you get hit it should cancel.

[ncvr]

Knights and conjurers are also a defensive class. Still they can do a lot of damage. I don't see why that should be made impossible for hunters, if even conjurers can do a lot of damage(if they want to). That's just unfair.
Ambush + Rep shot.

I've had that combo used on me in almost all PvPs with hunters...

And I disagree on hunters not being able to do great damage - get a good shortbow, cast dirty fighting and use dual shot(600 or so dmg) in combination with a Cyclops Warrior + Bestial Wrath(800+ crits)...

Knights need to use mana to do damage, about 200 for SC if they want it to be efficient...hunters just need to cast one buff for their pet and one buff for themselves(Dirty Fighting).

[fluffy_muffin]

Ambush + Rep shot.

I've had that combo used on me in almost all PvPs with hunters...


It is good combo but if it fail :D and ambush is not 100% working spell ;] i know hunter who had 100% evaded rep shots in pvp ;p


And I disagree on hunters not being able to do great damage - get a good shortbow, cast dirty fighting and use dual shot(600 or so dmg) in combination with a Cyclops Warrior + Bestial Wrath(800+ crits)...


Bestial is realy great but i never seen my pet doing more than 450dmg. I remeber when we was so happy with cyclops doing 480dmg in crits on mage.


Knights need to use mana to do damage, about 200 for SC if they want it to be efficient...hunters just need to cast one buff for their pet and one buff for themselves(Dirty Fighting).
Ekhem. Dirty figting is +30%dmg with -50% range = hallo MoD ;] it is 10sec, 15sec, 20sec, 25sec, 30sec, in this time you can have 0 crits.

[ncvr]

MoD in a PvP with a hunter is lame.

Besides, don't you love to get up close anyway?

[padreigh]

easy solution about camou: change its effect from "invisible" to "blurred". If you are standing still youre 100% invisible, in walkmode you will be 98% invisible, if youre in runmode youre in 95% invisible, in attackmode youre 92% invis.

The nice thing about it, is it could be easily coded with the alphavalue of the character (currently its 100% or 0%, then 100% standing, 98% walking, 95% running, 92% attackmode).

It will still be cool to have it, but youre more easily spotted if you gonna attack someone. For fleeing with fullspeed youre likely to be seen if you happen to escape while under sight. That way either hunters chance luck and run straight to theire enemies or they use area to hide as well (as i think it should be done when using "nature" and not "magic" to hide. This spell would be stronger in Alsian forests then Igniean desert but phew ... it takes more skill then.

Id rather have the Predatorlike effect though ;) with blurring edges and some prismlike distortions similar to Predator (film).

[fluffy_muffin]

MoD in a PvP with a hunter is lame.

LOL there is nothing lame in fight. You can even piss on me if you can. It is all about die or win. So if you don't have confuse on ass use whatever you can to kill bastard. Geez.
Yes i love to stay close to warlock - a lot of them gets panic then. But i know warlocks who stay calm and do not allow me to not face them while my pet is eating his ass.

[ncvr]

Very well, I will use MoD on the next english enemy hunter I see and watch him complain about it on the forums ;)

[fluffy_muffin]

Very well, I will use MoD on the next english enemy hunter I see and watch him complain about it on the forums ;)

If you want to train with petless hunter pm me.
BTW. in pvps i had even sultars on my ass. So don't be ashamed to use whatever you can. It is fight :]

[ncvr]

I know several archers in my clan who use it and say it's great.

[Ertial]

Who? I don't know any. ;)

[Comp]

Very well, I will use MoD on the next english enemy hunter I see and watch him complain about it on the forums ;)

Use MoD on me.....most warlocks do - and still die.

[LuthienNenharma]

MoD is to expensive for a one vs one fight.
I think darkness is pretty fine for fighting against a hunter. Mhh and rape his mana.

[fluffy_muffin]

Use MoD on me.....most warlocks do - and still die.

Dont' do that! He is nice young man. Let him test it ;p

[ncvr]

Who? I don't know any. ;)
Kim, Dave...