Bows

[aric_swartzell]

Since our posts in the balance thread were OT i'm moving the discussion here. I find dual shot to do around 100 damage less than shield pierce. Granted it's cheaper and has a shorter cooldown. I agree the passives are better. Break Apart vs Tear Apart, I find they both rock. the -20 const takes an imediate chunk of health away. the damage over time though is a bit lower and the duration is a bit long. Tear Apart doesn't have the imediate health loss but has a higher dot and lower duration. I think they pretty much even out. But the real question is, given that I find the damage to be about the same over a certain time period. Why choose short and loose all that range? If I had more damage spells it would be obvious, I'd want to get off as many attacks as soon as possible. But I have 2. I thinking about sticking to long until I get to lvl 37 and possibly switching. Rep shot is one hellva skill. And maybe by then I might be able to find a fast range 25 bow, so I don't loose too much range.

[CumeriTarenes]

the damage of dual shoot depends on the bow you use. If you use a medium range 20 short bow your dual shoot will do much more damage than with a fast range 25 bow.

well, to the range thing:

a hunter does not need the range...lower range also means your pet is nearer at you and has a short way to your enemy. Also many combat control spells like ambush are range 25...and many hunters cast ambush at the very beginning of a fight. Same with sudden strike, range 25 too.

and to compare tear apart and break apart...biggest disadvantage for break apart is the long casting time...you could have done 2 normal hits instead with a short bow...imagine your break apart is resisted...all the casting time is wasted. And it will last longer to cast it again than tear apart.

And you forget about mediation, a basic self buff for many people using short bow I think

As a hunter it is important to react fast, and that you can do only with a short bow.

[aric_swartzell]

I agree Break Aparts cast time is a bit long. But isn't the whole purpose of using a shortbow for speed? I'll look into sudden strike, i've never really payed any attention to it.

[CumeriTarenes]

sudden strike is awesome, leave it at lvl 1, maybe lvl 2...but more is not necessary, it only increases duration.

With my marks I use sudden strike in combination with serpent bite...works like a charm especially on barbs and mages.

sudden strike is not much mana, but a big effect. It is in some ways even better than death sentence (like in combo with serpent bite)

[Signatus]

Since our posts in the balance thread were OT i'm moving the discussion here. I find dual shot to do around 100 damage less than shield pierce. Granted it's cheaper and has a shorter cooldown. I agree the passives are better. Break Apart vs Tear Apart, I find they both rock. the -20 const takes an imediate chunk of health away. the damage over time though is a bit lower and the duration is a bit long. Tear Apart doesn't have the imediate health loss but has a higher dot and lower duration. I think they pretty much even out. But the real question is, given that I find the damage to be about the same over a certain time period. Why choose short and loose all that range? If I had more damage spells it would be obvious, I'd want to get off as many attacks as soon as possible. But I have 2. I thinking about sticking to long until I get to lvl 37 and possibly switching. Rep shot is one hellva skill. And maybe by then I might be able to find a fast range 25 bow, so I don't loose too much range.

Dual Shot will surpass Shield Piercing with medium sb above 40 if I can recall correctly (maybe 42, can't remember... ask DM ^^).

I haven't tested them accurately but here goes what I remember. Tear Apart (5) + normal will remove mages nasty barrier in most cases (namely lvl4 barrier), it will kill a knight that relies on troll skin to get away on fort wars, it will kill an archer that relies on LP too late, it will kill a conjurer that saved sanctuary to the last minute... it's just awesome! Break Apart it's very good too, 20 const is an equivalent to nearly 420hp, but the direct dmg is lower (the 20 const penalty is instant and it will rock at fort wars... add it with crushing from a warrior friend and it will be a nightmare for the poor fellow) but the most important issue is casting time! And being a hunter is all about being fast (that's what annoys people), fast speed, fast evasion, fast casting, fast dmg and range isn't an issue if you land the 1st shot (camu, stalker, trickster all the way!)... the only slow thing you need to have is... a pet! (if you want to play with pet setup!)

As a hunter you will use 3 dmg dealing spells most of the time (dual, ensnaring, tear), 1 when you feel that the terror was well placed (or when you feel like lvling faster, or when you feel like killing 4 grinding adversaries AT THE SAME TIME is the coolest thing you ever done before, or if you party up with other 3 or 4 crazed hunters and you want to end that fort war quickly... <ninja> way!), 1 circumstantially (grounding arrow) to shorten base evasion and archers base dmg.

Always have AT LEAST 3 bows, sb fast (buffing, drop area and LP/tear apart after or whatever you think it's appropriated, cancel camu and "sometimes"... RUN!), sb medium (your personal uzy... you'll get them with range 25, not sure what lvl though), and (my choice) long slow bow (xym preferably) to teach marks who are the true archers around here... although they have a nasty passive that increases range we all know who puts points in evasion and never forgets to buff don't we?

Now, for lvling at your lvl, probably a long with shield piercing and a pet, get 2 long bows, use the slow 1st to hit ensnaring (more dmg) then switch to medium for dmg dealing and power casting. It's a pity you are a goat (:razz: ), I just dropped a xym medium short for lvl 34.

And now to bed, there are higher lvl hunters around here that will correct/add something on what I said (and I'm glad they'll do it cuz I've much to learn yet).

Have fun :beerchug:

[aric_swartzell]

Actually i'm a half elf, but I forgive you :P

[Signatus]

Actually i'm a half elf, but I forgive you :P

(damn, I'm so sleepy I can't even see a flag)

GAH, HERETIC!!! KILL HIM MWUAHAHAHA! (just an IC moment not very serious)

enough of this, bye all (there's only a good morning thread, not a good night one... ok enough of spamming good threads, sry)

[Comp]

secret......short bows hit harder than longs (the spell tree anyway). My lvl 5 dual-shot does more damage than my lvl 5 shield pierce - about 80 more. This is mostly due to my weapon and the fact that shorts have the weapon + for dual shot.

Also, when you are attacking short bows your pet is alot closer to you and the attack from him is immediate.

Play around....it's hard to get used to shorts but I think you'll find alot of high lvl hunters use em.

[DemonMonger]

Dual Shot will surpass Shield Piercing with medium sb above 40 if I can recall correctly (maybe 42, can't remember... ask DM ^^).

I haven't tested them accurately but here goes what I remember. Tear Apart (5) + normal will remove mages nasty barrier in most cases (namely lvl4 barrier), it will kill a knight that relies on troll skin to get away on fort wars, it will kill an archer that relies on LP too late, it will kill a conjurer that saved sanctuary to the last minute... it's just awesome! Break Apart it's very good too, 20 const is an equivalent to nearly 420hp, but the direct dmg is lower (the 20 const penalty is instant and it will rock at fort wars... add it with crushing from a warrior friend and it will be a nightmare for the poor fellow) but the most important issue is casting time! And being a hunter is all about being fast (that's what annoys people), fast speed, fast evasion, fast casting, fast dmg and range isn't an issue if you land the 1st shot (camu, stalker, trickster all the way!)... the only slow thing you need to have is... a pet! (if you want to play with pet setup!)

As a hunter you will use 3 dmg dealing spells most of the time (dual, ensnaring, tear), 1 when you feel that the terror was well placed (or when you feel like lvling faster, or when you feel like killing 4 grinding adversaries AT THE SAME TIME is the coolest thing you ever done before, or if you party up with other 3 or 4 crazed hunters and you want to end that fort war quickly... <ninja> way!), 1 circumstantially (grounding arrow) to shorten base evasion and archers base dmg.

Always have AT LEAST 3 bows, sb fast (buffing, drop area and LP/tear apart after or whatever you think it's appropriated, cancel camu and "sometimes"... RUN!), sb medium (your personal uzy... you'll get them with range 25, not sure what lvl though), and (my choice) long slow bow (xym preferably) to teach marks who are the true archers around here... although they have a nasty passive that increases range we all know who puts points in evasion and never forgets to buff don't we?

Now, for lvling at your lvl, probably a long with shield piercing and a pet, get 2 long bows, use the slow 1st to hit ensnaring (more dmg) then switch to medium for dmg dealing and power casting. It's a pity you are a goat (:razz: ), I just dropped a xym medium short for lvl 34.

And now to bed, there are higher lvl hunters around here that will correct/add something on what I said (and I'm glad they'll do it cuz I've much to learn yet).

Have fun :beerchug:
youve said it all right....

about tear apart vs break apart...
after the duration of break apart ends the enemy gets + 420 life
after the tear apart ends the enemy gets + 0 life total 720 damage

i would rather have 720 sure damage than 360 sure damage...

plus the cooldown is only 30 seconds vs 42 :beerchug:

[ljwolfe]

I am a marksman who relies on short bow now. I also have a range passive :)

IN addition to everything said already, I find my shortbow to be much more reliable. It appears to be evaded 30-50% less than my long bow. I swap out bows depending on the fight. Longbow to soften the target and not take his, run in with the shortbow, get the target lower in health, then hit SOTW and finish the job.

Shortbows also hit harder.

[aric_swartzell]

No kidding about the reliability. I've been playing around with shorts, and the accuracy compared to longbows is rediculous.

[Valorius]

well, to the range thing:

a hunter does not need the range...lower range also means your pet is nearer at you and has a short way to your enemy. Also many combat control spells like ambush are range 25...and many hunters cast ambush at the very beginning of a fight. Same with sudden strike, range 25 too.

and to compare tear apart and break apart...biggest disadvantage for break apart is the long casting time...you could have done 2 normal hits instead with a short bow...imagine your break apart is resisted...all the casting time is wasted. And it will last longer to cast it again than tear apart.

And you forget about mediation, a basic self buff for many people using short bow I think

As a hunter it is important to react fast, and that you can do only with a short bow.

My wake is littered with the corpses of shortbow using Hunters. ;)

Seriously though, both bows have thier uses, i use both. SB and LB both lvl 15, with lvl 4 break apart AND lvl 4 tear apart.

That's 71-80 DPS and -20 Constitution. The best time to cast break apart is after an ambush spell at close range, or at max 30 range as the SB equipped hunter charges to get into range with his pea shooter. If used properly, the longer cast time of break apart is irrelevant.

I combine those two skills with lvl 4 shield pierce for long range firepower in fort battles, and use a VERY good med/25 shortbow with dual shot at close range. Even at lvl 1 dual shot does very good dmg when piggybacked, and costs virtually no mana.

Try this some time:

Start fight at 30rng, use breakapart lvl 4(usually in a 'sneak attack'), shield pierce lvl 4, Switch to shortbow vs charging opponent- tear apart lvl 4, dual shot lvl 1, switch to longbow- shield pierce lvl 4, switch to shortbow dual shot lvl 1.

Throw in confuse or ambush as needed.

Net effect is no cooldown times.

This tactic can deliver massive firepower for minimum mana in a very short timeframe.

Oh, one other thing, Caltrips arrow is good beyond words. Especially against barbarians.

[aric_swartzell]

Thanks for the excellent replies everyone.