nOOb questions that probably no one will be able to reply (I hope you will)

[Signatus]

/me dances: I'm a nOOb with question!

I know this might be somewhere on the forums and please feel free to direct me if you know where... I'm feeling a bit lazy to search for it myself atm.

1. What does "miss chance" means? Yes, I saw Ark's video with tons of misses on the top of his head but... I still don't understand what it does since I never experienced a "X missed Arcana Strike" (/me dreams with it) or "*you* missed shield bash" (/me hopes never see this). The question is indeed deeper for me, I'm used to think on chance rolls (hit and spell chance) against defensive rolls (all those that make many players mad but not me who casts trip through SoW and Throat Cutter through Protector :devil: ... sometimes), but if there is a "miss chance" when is it rolled? And why is it so rare (read: lacking completely)? How can it be improved or manipulated by the use of improved stats or any other modifiers? I have these questions way back up since I first tested "finesse" (never really found out what it did!).

2. Now this will sound weird: why is it written on blue on the "awareness" spell? Because the blue color *usually* stands for self buffs with self stat modifiers, from based improved dmg to evasion (so many examples!). Take the "rigorous preparation" buff, it has the modifiers written in red because it affects (does it?) anyone who targets you (does it *really* work? I mean, does it really affect who's targeting you? because if it does I like the semi-SoW animation :superpusso: )! Is it the "miss chance" a self stat that affects who targets you... how does it work anyway, and more important, how can I use it to overpower my knight? :nunchaku:

3. Another one: what is the difference between game mechanics inside the Arena and the WZ... Valorious pointed it out to me once, and I had to acknowledge it until further notice , that the arena wasn't the WZ. However recently I've got a bit distressed after knowing that some barb experimentations I conducted inside of the arena revealed themselves completely wrong after a friend of mine successfully used some spells I thought "broken" (or not worth the cost for apparently not doing relevant debuffs on a target). One of the spells was the 17th of tactics (can't remember the name) I used a lvl 50 barb as "caster" and the "sexiest knight in RO" was the target, and albeit being a short testing I had the feeling it didn't worth the points (and I still think it doesn't for barbs but... I'm a knight now!) because the % protection debuff wasn't noticeable (much less the block). But it was a double protection debuff (the swords one and the tactics altogether can make many people soft as butter in the Mediterranean sun) who made me forget the idea completely.

4. Have you read all of this? I write too much don't I? Not always well but... I have good intentions. :beerchug:

Thanks for your patience.

[Envy]

The difference between WZ and Arena is simple really.

When someone heads to the arena they reskill and build themselves for 1v1, unsupported encounters and may even skill a certain way for a specific class enemy. While in the WZ people skill for large scale fort wars, small skirmishes and hunts as any of those situations can pop up. Also they may be supported by other players there/will be relied on to support other players.

[Signatus]

The difference between WZ and Arena is simple really.

When someone heads to the arena they reskill and build themselves for 1v1, unsupported encounters and may even skill a certain way for a specific class enemy. While in the WZ people skill for large scale fort wars, small skirmishes and hunts as any of those situations can pop up. Also they may be supported by other players there/will be relied on to support other players.

Yes, I know, but that wasn't my question. I'm asking if anyone noticed changes on the game mechanism itself, for example, have you ever tested something at the arena that you thought useless but after repeating it on WZ on a fight you got the opposite feeling.

When I say testing it's not about PvP, it's about when you see a couple of nerds (me for ex.) without armor hitting each other on timed cycles and adding stuff, like armor from different sets, for log analysis and "overpowering" purposes :wink: .

[mann2411]

well the only one i can answer is 3 so
the arena lets you fight people from the same realm
and the wz lets you fight people from the other realms
there is much less space in the arena and there are no forts to capture and you cant hunt the arena is basically just pvp
when you die in the arena you also get spawned in the arena again not to the save
other than that there is basically no difference
o yes hunters cant use pets in the arena

[ncvr]

Certain spells like Intimidating Threat and Blindness give you Miss Chance (Miss Chance +10 for example). Same with Shifting Silhouette, it gives the target ally the ability for enemies to miss attacks on him.

Also hunters are heavily disadvantaged in the arena...not only can they not use their pets (I don't really mind that anyway) but they are in a tiny confined space where it's a lot harder to avoid warriors.

[sathilda]

Yes, I know, but that wasn't my question. I'm asking if anyone noticed changes on the game mechanism itself, for example, have you ever tested something at the arena that you thought useless but after repeating it on WZ on a fight you got the opposite feeling.

When I say testing it's not about PvP, it's about when you see a couple of nerds (me for ex.) without armor hitting each other on timed cycles and adding stuff, like armor from different sets, for log analysis and "overpowering" purposes :wink: .

Some area spells are bugged in the arena... but since i've not tested for a long time, i prefer to not name spells here.

[tak]

1. I tend to believe that miss chance is something you only get by casting spells that give you miss chance (somewhat similar to knights with shields that block, no shield -> no blocks).
2. Don't have that spell :)
3. The arena is one big bug. The amount of bugs i have encountered there is insane, you can use it to have some fun but any serious testing of spells is pretty much impossible.

[misaccc]

2. Now this will sound weird: why is it written on blue on the "awareness" spell? Because the blue color *usually* stands for self buffs with self stat modifiers, from based improved dmg to evasion (so many examples!). Take the "rigorous preparation" buff, it has the modifiers written in red because it affects (does it?) anyone who targets you (does it *really* work? I mean, does it really affect who's targeting you? because if it does I like the semi-SoW animation :superpusso: )! Is it the "miss chance" a self stat that affects who targets you... how does it work anyway, and more important, how can I use it to overpower my knight? :nunchaku:

you cant...both spells are totally bugged and should be replaced....

[Signatus]

Thank you for participating.

@tak: From now on I'll only test on experimental (I already suspected of the damned arena since the first time I've been there and Fub laughed at me for having a pet setup!), problem is, I need testing partners (me searches the forums for a suitable victim for my boring test sessions).

@Necrovarus: Interesting indeed, so the most coherent hypothesis (taking account for what tak posted too) it's it being null on base value.

@Red Star: They may not work... but I want to try it myself! :nunchaku:

:closed1:

[richard315]

We will have to start with attributes. There are two kind of attributes, the Character attributes and the fighting attributes.

The character attributes are Intelligence, Strength, Dexterity, Concentration and Constitution. These do not participate directly during a combat, they are the base for fighting attributes.
The character attributes affects your health (constitution) and mana (intelligence) maximums also.

The fighting attributes are values that are used to decide combat actions, they are Damage, Evasion, Block chance, Hit Chance, Spell resistance chance, Spell Focus, Knock Down resistance, Critical Hit probability, etc. Some of them such as Spell Resistance are not listed on the character data sheet because this sheet is still not complete.

The fighting attributes are based on the character ones. For example, Hit Chance depends on Concentration and the main class attribute (Intelligence for mages, Strength for warrior and Dexterity for Archers), so items or spells that improves your character attributes also improve your fighting ones. Also Hit chance depends on any Hit Chance buff.

Basically when you attack an opponent your Hit Chance is compared with his Evasion, and some probability (you can think it as luck) to decide if the hit is successful or not.

This is the same on Spell Focus vs Spell Resistance, Hit Chance vs Evasion, Hit chance vs Block, Spell focus vs Block, Knock Down spell vs Knock Down Resistance, etc.

For example, lets say that you have 50 of evasion, and your opponent has 300 Hit Chance:
Evasion*100 / Opponent Hit chance = 16,6%
This means that you have a 16,6% of evading your enemy basic attack.

All of these attributes (character and fighting) can be improve by using items or spells (passive or active), and also can be low when using debuff.

PS: My English is a little bad, so I hope you can understand this.

[richard315]

Some spells such as Son of the wind, Protector, Spell Elude (the spell from Evasion Discipline), Dodge, etc. do not affect attributes but gives you a independent value on something. Son of the wind gives you a % of Evading hits that works without using fighting attributes.

Lets use the same example as before, when you had 16,6% of evade a basic hit. If you cast SotW, first the Hit Chance is compared to the (lets say) 60% of SotW, then if Hit Chance wins against SotW probability it has to be challenge vs your Evasion fighting attribute.

All this information was taken from the forum, because there are not Official Data about this. So somethings can be not exactly as I write, but is close enough to understand how the attributes work.

[Signatus]

Thank you Richard for your effort but... you haven't stated nothing about "miss chance" as expressed in the "Awareness" spell (and "miss chance" is not when a hit is evaded/blocked/resisted, it's when there is a flying "miss")... my central doubt.

But you raised me another one, and that is SoW mechanism. I was almost sure it worked as % modifier over base evasion (or in your words, the fighting technique calculated by the character attribute "dexterity"), whereas dodge (and precise block) worked as an additional layer (and this after reading AwD thread and Blood reply to it)...

[magnet]

1) Before computing HC vs Evasion, the games tests Miss chance. It's usually 0 unless affected by one of those spells (including Awareness). If the test fails, you'll have a Miss, even on someone with 0 Evasion. It works only with regular hits.

2) Blue means it's positive, that's all.. It's a positive "target miss chance" so it's blue whereas rigorous preparation is a negative target hit chance. I don't know if it really works, but if it does, it's only for the guy you're targeting while you're targeting hiim and buff active. And maybe you must be in range.

3) Imho Disabling is not worth the 4 points Zoya puts in, but I know quite a few Knights who put points in there so it must works -- if it's not blocked first.

[Signatus]

1) Before computing HC vs Evasion, the games tests Miss chance. It's usually 0 unless affected by one of those spells (including Awareness). If the test fails, you'll have a Miss, even on someone with 0 Evasion. It works only with regular hits.

2) Blue means it's positive, that's all.. It's a positive "target miss chance" so it's blue whereas rigorous preparation is a negative target hit chance. I don't know if it really works, but if it does, it's only for the guy you're targeting while you're targeting hiim and buff active. And maybe you must be in range.

3) Imho Disabling is not worth the 4 points Zoya puts in, but I know quite a few Knights who put points in there so it must works -- if it's not blocked first.

1. Nice, that was what I was thinking... the problem is, "awareness" is %, therefore if miss chance is base 0 it is the stupidest spell ever done before.

2. Oh crap! I was thinking that it worked on everyone targeting the caster! Bah, if it is a buff why do I have to select a target? They could have done it as an offensive spell if it was meant to work that way... now I don't understand the purpose of it!

3. Yes, I know it works, the problem was that it seemed not to at the arena. Btw, probably it is worth if you can't mindsquash a target... or... nah!

Thank you for the replies once again.

[magnet]

3. Yes, I know it works, the problem was that it seemed not to at the arena. Btw, probably it is worth if you can't mindsquash a target... or... nah!

Thank you for the replies once again.

If you can't mindsquash a target, it's often because of either Precise block or Protector. Disabling has no effect on them (absolute values), only on the normal block chance. Which is low enough, even with a good shield and block passive lv5, so that you wouldn't sacrifice points into Disabling or have tactics lv 17 which is a waste imho (lv 19 is even worse!). But hey, that's my view of the matter :p

[Signatus]

If you can't mindsquash a target, it's often because of either Precise block or Protector. Disabling has no effect on them (absolute values), only on the normal block chance. Which is low enough, even with a good shield and block passive lv5, so that you wouldn't sacrifice points into Disabling or have tactics lv 17 which is a waste imho (lv 19 is even worse!). But hey, that's my view of the matter :p

When I said "you can't mindsquash a target" it was meant to be understood as "You don't have mindsquash!" ;)

About Tactics 19... my best damaging spell at a certain lvl was... "Throat Cutter"! But I must agree that now I have other priorities then being able to catch a hunter without maxed mobility and/or wild spirit.

[Inkster]

Richard, im a scabby arsed brit and your English is a damn sight better than mine :wiggle14:

[Anpu]

I m open for testing on test server.