Marksman armor levels (again)

[Valorius]

Guess i'm still whining, but...

LVL 50 Master bow, lvl 50 arrows, 2x deadly sight rings, +12 dex passive buff(102 total i think i have atm), lvl 1 passive dmg(+2%), SUDDEN STRIKE AND DIRTY FIGHTER CAST= anywhere from 1-40dmg regular attack vs marksman. Lvl 4 shield pierce= 150 and change damage. Please also note the 40hp critical hit in the log.

I do about 300% more damage vs knights with regular arrows. Yes....that's right....300% more dmg vs lvl 50 knights.

Ahem...

I guess this calls for the nerfing of another hunters evasion spell to 'balance marksmen'. lol.

[magnet]

Any conjurer or knight near the Marks? Looks like Pylon and/or Heroic Presence. Of course you'd rather start a whine thread because you lost rather than looking at the evidence (ie, normal hits varying a lot on the same target).

[Valorius]

OMFG, im whining because my critical hits WITH sudden strike AND dirty fighting cast are only 40 hitpoints?!?!?!!

LOL, you're an asshat. This game needs serious, serious balance work.

[misaccc]

nope...if he had heroic its totaly ok...

[magnet]

OMFG, im whining because my critical hits WITH sudden strike AND dirty fighting cast are only 40 hitpoints?!?!?!!

LOL, you're an asshat. This game needs serious, serious balance work.

:lighten:
Maybe if you replied to my question instead of insulting me it could help :thumb:

[Valorius]

nope...if he had heroic its totaly ok...
Yet he can hit any other class for 600dmg regardless of their defensive buffs?

You guys are seriously deluded. 40hp critical hits from lvl 50s using 2x deadly sight rings, sudden strike AND dirty fighting is just plain ridiculous, i really don't care what kind of flaming BS you same few geniuses fill this thread with.

Hopefully NGD realizes that this needs to be adressed big time, regardless of your flames.

[misaccc]

Yet he can hit any other class for 600dmg regardless of their defensive buffs?

You guys are seriously deluded.

thats one spell...that i whine about...but imo you should quit whining untill you learn to play better

[magnet]

nope...if he had heroic its totaly ok...

I rather think it's Mana Pylon, but I can't see any enemy conjurer on the screenshot, and since Valorius doesn't reply to say if there were any, we'll never know :hat:

Yet he can hit any other class for 600dmg regardless of their defensive buffs?

You guys are seriously deluded. 40hp critical hits from lvl 50s using 2x deadly sight rings, sudden strike AND dirty fighting is just plain ridiculous, i really don't care what kind of flaming BS you same few geniuses fill this thread with.

Hopefully NGD realizes that this needs to be adressed big time, regardless of your flames.

Ethereal Arrow is seriously overpowered. I find Marksmen overpowered. You're simply not showing any decisive evidence, since you consider the enemy as a single player and not in the context of an enemy group, which may have auras. But it's typical of you. The best part is when you victimize yourself by saying we flame, where I only started with a genuine question you still haven't answered.

[Valorius]

thats one spell...that i whine about...but imo you should quit whining untill you learn to play better
You need to STFU and stop flaming my threads. if you've got nothing but flames to offer, kindly fall on your own spear in someone elses thread.

I rather think it's Mana Pylon, but I can't see any enemy conjurer on the screenshot, and since Valorius doesn't reply to say if there were any, we'll never know :hat:
I don't care if the dali Lama was there, 40 hp crit hits vs sudden strike AND dirty fighting with top end lvl 50 gear is utterly retarded. I also don't care if the attacker is a hunter, or a knight or a warlock...40 hp crit hits with all those buff/debuffs applied is r e t a r d e d.

Finally, the fact that i died is totally irrelevant. It wasn't even the marksman that killed me...though she did pop me through lvl 5 acrobat and lvl 5 spell elude and lvl 5 defensive tactics with a 600 hp etheral arrow that utterly ignores all armor despite my own hits doing 40hp on criticals when fully offensively buffed. I die all the time, i could care less.

[adrianpf]

Please, ask your realm mates to combine this skills:

- Mana Pylon(5)
- Heroic Presence(5)
- Star's Shield(5)

And you use:

- Acrobatic(5)
- Very Good Overall Piercing Armour

And as usual:

- Deflecting Barrier(5)
- Protection Dome(5)

And you'll be unkillable, having still the choice of SotW and other evasive skills during the spaces in between this ally skills.

Remember, it's an ally issue, not your issue.

[misaccc]

dude you whine everytime something that you dont like happens....so...im gonna keep on "flaming your threads"

[Valorius]

Please, ask your realm mates to combine this skills:

- Mana Pylon(5)
- Heroic Presence(5)
- Star's Shield(5)

And you use:

- Acrobatic(5)
- Very Good Overall Piercing Armour

And as usual:

- Deflecting Barrier(5)
- Protection Dome(5)

And you'll be unkillable, having still the choice of SotW and other evasive skills during the spaces in between this ally skills.

Remember, it's an ally issue, not your issue.


This is incorrect, because my arrows ROUTINELY do 40dmg or less vs these 'defensive' marksman. Be that Gpomal or one of the others. Conj's present or not present.

Get it???

And i am about 99% sure all that wasn't cast because i'd confused and killed their only conj. immediately.

This is frigging ridiculous. Seriously.

dude you whine everytime something that you dont like happens....so...im gonna keep on "flaming your threads"
Then you go on ignore right now. Bye flameboy.

"misaccc
This message is hidden because misaccc is on your ignore list."

MUCH better.

[adrianpf]

This is frigging ridiculous. Seriously.

Seriously, and this is a very known fact:

Ridiculous is an Archer fighting without range. Archer who loses his range should die easily.

[Valorius]

Seriously, and this is a very known fact:

Ridiculous is an Archer fighting without range. Archer who loses his range should die easily.
Utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Please do not spam the thread with irrelevant nonsense in an attempt to change the subject.

Subject at hand: Lvl 50 hunter, dirty fighting+sudden strike+ 2x deadly sight rings+ lvl 50 master LB= 40hp critical hits vs marksman.

This is commonplace vs defensive marksmen. It is ridiculous, it needs to be adressed by NGD. Strategic positioning(at the least) needs to go. MANY players in many threads have said the same. Guess we'll just have to keep saying it til NGD acts.

[misaccc]

haha...many players said there should be a speed nerf not that the spell should be removed...

[Valorius]

"misaccc
This message is hidden because misaccc is on your ignore list. "

This ignore thing works great.

[misaccc]

glad he likes it...

[Valorius]

"misaccc
This message is hidden because misaccc is on your ignore list. "

It still works flame monkey.

[adrianpf]

Utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Please do not spam the thread with irrelevant nonsense in an attempt to change the subject.

Not irrelevant. You've casted Dirty Fighting, you lost half of your range, you know the risks you take...

And I know how you play. You take a lot of risks eliminating your range, getting close to a fully buffed group of enemies is just nonsense.

Tip: Check your enemies buffs and try to guess when they finish.
Other Tip: When you see all your enemies with (I.E) Deflecting Barrier try to cast a 120 sec skill, so, when it finishes your buff, enemy does too. And then you attack.

[misaccc]

yes it does!...

[Signatus]

Tip: Check your enemies buffs and try to guess when they finish.
Other Tip: When you see all your enemies with (I.E) Deflecting Barrier try to cast a 120 sec skill, so, when it finishes your buff, enemy does too. And then you attack.

I hate when they do this at pines... better go inside the fort we're about to eat 6 areas... :thumb:

[magnet]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was eating pastas (quite good actually) and I thought a bit further of the matter.

It is true that if the best Hunter in whole Regnum dies against another player, his class must be overpowered -- except if this class is itself Hunter of course. Other enemy players, like Conjurers and Knights sacrificing points for skills that don't benefit them directly at all -- but only their allies -- (skill such as Deflecting Barrier or Mana Pylon) don't mean the game should be unbalanced towards Valorius.

If a player has shown the ability to reach over 100k Rps, mind you even be the first of his own realm to get over 100k Rps, then it's obvious his voice should weight more than those of the ignorant masses. Especially when the said player obviously knows so well the game mechanics (natural for the best Hunter).

Thus I have carefully reconsidered my mind and I totally agree with Valorius. This fight is gross. The fact that the cause of the low attacks on the said Marksman is mostly independent of the fact that he's Marksman or that 90% of the defensive capabilities of a Marksman are shared with a Hunter is totally irrelevant to the conversation; if it were a Conjurer on Valorius' side giving him the benefit of Mana Pylon, Marksmen would still be overpowered.

I immediately call NGD to reason and in the name of the best Hunter of the game, demand an immediate nerf of Barbarians and Marksmen.

[trash]

Gawd, if only hunters could run faster than every other class, turn invisble, track for enemies and have lvl 50 pets that assisted them, to try and address this very serious imbalance. Or maybe a cheap short cool down weapon damage based attack that also slowed their opponents, or extra damage depending how many allies were near.

If they only had some benefits like this it might make them a viable class, complimentary to the fact marks have, doing more damage and an extra defence spell. The injustice shakes me to the core...

Oh hang on a minute.


So, can I get put on your ignore list to, go on, I wanna sit in the naughty corner with Red so we can giggle...

[Signatus]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was eating pastas (quite good actually) and I thought a bit further of the matter.

It is true that if the best Hunter in whole Regnum dies against another player, his class must be overpowered -- except if this class is itself Hunter of course. Other enemy players, like Conjurers and Knights sacrificing points for skills that don't benefit them directly at all -- but only their allies -- (skill such as Deflecting Barrier or Mana Pylon) don't mean the game should be unbalanced towards Valorius.

If a player has shown the ability to reach over 100k Rps, mind you even be the first of his own realm to get over 100k Rps, then it's obvious his voice should weight more than those of the ignorant masses. Especially when the said player obviously knows so well the game mechanics (natural for the best Hunter).

Thus I have carefully reconsidered my mind and I totally agree with Valorius. This fight is gross. The fact that the cause of the low attacks on the said Marksman is mostly independent of the fact that he's Marksman or that 90% of the defensive capabilities of a Marksman are shared with a Hunter is totally irrelevant to the conversation; if it were a Conjurer on Valorius' side giving him the benefit of Mana Pylon, Marksmen would still be overpowered.

I immediately call NGD to reason and in the name of the best Hunter of the game, demand an immediate nerf of Barbarians and Marksmen.

HAHAHAHAHA

*Falls from the chair laughing*

HAHAHAHAHA

*Starts crying while laughing*

Oh men, vous avez été fantastique!

[Mattdoesrock]

Oh no! Valorius the great was killed by a marksmen! They must be overpowered!

First Barbs, now Marks?

Will no class ever be safe? Save hunters, of course. As Trix was saying, hunters have so few useful abilites, how do you cope?

[fluffy_muffin]

This is incorrect, because my arrows ROUTINELY do 40dmg or less vs these 'defensive' marksman. Be that Gpomal or one of the others.
And? Use your buffs. Move fast. Confuse him before he will buff himself.
Who will be next? Conj with zarkit? Knights? or Hunters?

[Valorius]

So, can I get put on your ignore list to, go on, I wanna sit in the naughty corner with Red so we can giggle...
By all means. Done.

[Valorius]

Oh no! Valorius the great was killed by a marksmen! They must be overpowered!

First Barbs, now Marks?

Will no class ever be safe? Save hunters, of course. As Trix was saying, hunters have so few useful abilites, how do you cope?
Yet another one with nothing to offer but blatant flames.

Also ignored. You are no other use than as a poor quality target.

[Valorius]

Not irrelevant. You've casted Dirty Fighting, you lost half of your range, you know the risks you take...

And I know how you play. You take a lot of risks eliminating your range, getting close to a fully buffed group of enemies is just nonsense.

Tip: Check your enemies buffs and try to guess when they finish.
Other Tip: When you see all your enemies with (I.E) Deflecting Barrier try to cast a 120 sec skill, so, when it finishes your buff, enemy does too. And then you attack.
IRRELEVANT TO THE TOPIC AT HAND, which is dmg suffered by marksmen.

[Valorius]

And? Use your buffs. Move fast. Confuse him before he will buff himself.
Who will be next? Conj with zarkit? Knights? or Hunters?
I used ALL my offensive buffs in the screen shot in question, yet my crits were doing only 40dmg.

That's a lvl 50 hunter with 102 dex and +2% passive dmg using lvl 50 master longbow, lvl 50 compound arrow, 2x deadly sight rings(+30-50slash dmg), deadly strike, and dirty fighting.


Net result= 40hp crit hits.

You think i play this game for my arrows to do 40dmg in a fight, or to have 80% of them blocked?

How many players you think leave, and have left, cause their attacks are totally inneffective? If my attacks do no damage, then there is no point in being there to begin with.

[adrianpf]

IRRELEVANT TO THE TOPIC AT HAND, which is dmg suffered by marksmen.

Nice, you evade a lot in RL too :)

[Valorius]

Nice, you evade a lot in RL too :)
You are simply spamming totally irrelevant arguments into this thread, PLEASE STOP.

Were it not for the dirty fighting, the dmg inflicted would've been 30% LESS than the 40hp critical hits i DID manage to score.

And btw, it's NGD that has made the most powerful offensive dmg boost spell a hunter has cut range in half. If you don't think an archer should fight at close range, you should seriously question why they made so many range 20 bows- why they are the most powerful, and why dirty fighting reduces range by 50%.

Now seriously, stop spamming my thread with irrelevancies.

[trash]

I wonder if we can goad Val into putting us all on ignore...

Trix smiles


A challenging Regnum bonus game for when the servers down.

[Valorius]

"trash
This message is hidden because trash is on your ignore list. "

Yep, it works on you too hotrod.

[trash]

Well, I've been called alot of things in my time, that's, special...

Wow I guess I could type any crap now and you'd never see it.

The possibilites...

[Mattdoesrock]

"trash
This message is hidden because trash is on your ignore list. "

Yep, it works on you too hotrod.

And Val calls this contributing to the thread?

He seems more concerned with protecting his precious thread then the subject in hand.

:jacky_chun:

[trash]

So Matt, seen any good movies lately...

Oh *sorry* forgot, very serious marks complaint thing going on here, yup.

Very, very serious...

I really think the future of the game could depend on it.

Totally.

So Matt...

Seen any good movies lately?

[Miraculix]

"trash
This message is hidden because trash is on your ignore list. "

Yep, it works on you too hotrod.

Actually it doesn't seem to work at all, you don't look like you're ignoring it whatsoever :p

[fluffy_muffin]

Net result= 40hp crit hits. [/B]

You don't get it don't you? Look at this screenshot.
In next fight he used sotw and died. If you allowed him too use all defence than it is your problem. You are hunter, not knight or barb, or marks. So play as hunter.

You had 2 knight auras and you walked out of it's range?
Sorry for being harsh but i am tired.
Btw. without dirty fighting i was dealing more dmg to GpoMal than you with this buff :p

[magnet]

Once and for all, these are not "1 hp" nor "40 hp" hits. You inflict more damage to the Magic Barrier, just like with mages with Energy Barrier. Mana Pylon at level 5 is just like Greater Healing but instead affects the Magic Barrier (and has several other limitations which explain the variations in the damage you dealt). You have no problem with Greater Healing I hope? You're taking on the wrong class; that's the Conjurer's doing. I'm waiting for a Conjurer named Dalai Lama though.

Now if your point is that Defensive Marksmen are overpowered, I agree, but there's small things called "argumentation" and "evidence"; you lack both. Your evidence only shows that the combo of a defensive Marksman and a support Conjurer is deadly; it's a fact very true, but that's caused by the fact that if you add the Evasion buffs+Strategic Position+Conju buffs you are almost invincible. And Marksmen have on top of that an awesome attacking power.

So I think things would be better if you actually used screenshots in correlation of the fact that defensive Marksmen are overpowered -- ie screenshots of PvP or test on the experimental server rather than a fight where Conjurers are involved. Well, any evidence that would support your argumentation would be good. Imho the best for you if you are serious about exposing the unbalance between Hunters and Marksmen would be to record a PvP movie on experimental against a lv 50 defensive Marksman.

Oh, and finally, if I may I'll point to you that these reasons are, if I remember well, partly why you left Regnum in the first place. Maybe you should consider this solution again :).

[Mattdoesrock]

Yeah I went and saw Drillbit Taylor the other day.

Not too bad, quite funny.

Its like got the same people in as Superbad, a fat one, a tall lanky one and the geeky one.

Seems to work ^^

[trash]

Yeah I went and saw Drillbit Taylor the other day.

Not too bad, quite funny.

Its like got the same people in as Superbad, a fat one, a tall lanky one and the geeky one.

Seems to work ^^


Cute, will have to investigate it! I *do* hope we're not off topic, I'd feel really really bad for spamming this crucially important development thread with random social chatter...

[Valorius]

You don't get it don't you? Look at this screenshot.
In next fight he used sotw and died. If you allowed him too use all defence than it is your problem. You are hunter, not knight or barb, or marks. So play as hunter.

You had 2 knight auras and you walked out of it's range?
Sorry for being harsh but i am tired.
Again, all totally irrelevant.

Btw. without dirty fighting i was dealing more dmg to GpoMal than you with this buff :p
Aren't you special?

I guess i need the bow you got. You see the dmg i do with a lvl 50 master bow.

[fluffy_muffin]

I guess i need the bow you got. You see the dmg i do with a lvl 50 master bow.
Sure. You can buy it in Korsum.

[Valorius]

Once and for all, these are not "1 hp" nor "40 hp" hits. You inflict more damage to the Magic Barrier, just like with mages with Energy Barrier. Mana Pylon at level 5 is just like Greater Healing but instead affects the Magic Barrier (and has several other limitations which explain the variations in the damage you dealt). You have no problem with Greater Healing I hope? You're taking on the wrong class; that's the Conjurer's doing. I'm waiting for a Conjurer named Dalai Lama though.

Now if your point is that Defensive Marksmen are overpowered, I agree, but there's small things called "argumentation" and "evidence"; you lack both. Your evidence only shows that the combo of a defensive Marksman and a support Conjurer is deadly; it's a fact very true, but that's caused by the fact that if you add the Evasion buffs+Strategic Position+Conju buffs you are almost invincible. And Marksmen have on top of that an awesome attacking power.

So I think things would be better if you actually used screenshots in correlation of the fact that defensive Marksmen are overpowered -- ie screenshots of PvP or test on the experimental server rather than a fight where Conjurers are involved. Well, any evidence that would support your argumentation would be good. Imho the best for you if you are serious about exposing the unbalance between Hunters and Marksmen would be to record a PvP movie on experimental against a lv 50 defensive Marksman.

Oh, and finally, if I may I'll point to you that these reasons are, if I remember well, partly why you left Regnum in the first place. Maybe you should consider this solution again :).
You have no evidence that a conj had in fact cast any buffs on him at all. I'm pretty sure i killed the only one they had right away. Even IF one was present, it should STILL not render players attacks- regardless of class- 95% inneffective. What fun is that for anyone? We hear people bitch about the miss rates ALL THE TIME. This is just as bad IMO.

Anyway, you are ASSuming a conj buffed him.

These dmg levels are common vs defensive marksmen. They suffer less dmg per hit then any class in the game against my attacks.

Of course, i already said that...


Now if your point is that Defensive Marksmen are overpowered, I agree

I submit it is you who is being argumentative for the sake of doing so.

[Valorius]

Sure. You can buy it in Korsum.
I already have a lvl 50 viper sb.

[Mattdoesrock]

Cute, will have to investigate it! I *do* hope we're not off topic, I'd feel really really bad for spamming this crucially important development thread with random social chatter...

Oh my Trix, wouldn't just just be awful!

We'd best get back to the subject in hand.

Weathers not been too bad the last few days.

[magnet]

You have absolutely NO evidence whatsoever that a conj had in fact cast any buffs on him at all.

You are ASSuming. Nothing more.

These dmg levels are common vs defensive marksmen. They suffer less dmg per hit then any class in the game against my attacks.

Of course, i already said that...

It's either Mana Pylon or an in-game bug (or maybe Heroic Presence but from the looks of it it doesn't look like it). Since you're not telling if there was a Conj I can only assume. Anyway as always, wait for an official answer if you like. You sure don't seem to like any we're giving :)

[Valorius]

Anyway as always, wait for an official answer if you like. You sure don't seem to like any we're giving :)

"Mattdoesrock
This message is hidden because Mattdoesrock is on your ignore list."

"Trash
This message is hidden because Trash is on your ignore list."

Actually, i like the responses i'm getting from some of you just fine now.

LOL...

It's either Mana Pylon or an in-game bug (or maybe Heroic Presence but from the looks of it it doesn't look like it).
Oh, it's a bug alright.

[sathilda]

Well... i like marks... if mana burn and borrow aren't resisted.

You see Valorious, you're more problematic for me with your insane evade rate than such high armoured marks, looks like its the opposite for you.

Once again that shows what ? Regnum is not a pvp game but a rvr... each class has its worst enemy. Team up with a mind squasher powered barb :p

[kuroihitomi]

Oh! Can I be on the famous "Val's long list of intelligent people who are ignored because they disagree with Val"?

I soooooooooooo want to join the club.

[Valorius]

Oh! Can I be on the famous "Val's long list of intelligent people who are ignored because they disagree with Val"?

I soooooooooooo want to join the club.
Done, not that i have any idea who you even are.

BTW, that was exactly the kind of worthless POS flame post that ruins -any- internet forum. Flame on sport, but i won't hear it.

[Valorius]

Well... i like marks... if mana burn and borrow aren't resisted.

You see Valorious, you're more problematic for me with your insane evade rate than such high armoured marks, looks like its the opposite for you.

Once again that shows what ? Regnum is not a pvp game but a rvr... each class has its worst enemy. Team up with a mind squasher powered barb :p
Battles are great except when 80% of your arrows are blocked by knights, or Conjs reduce the effect of the very few attacks that do get through by 80% or more.

Regnum has undergone a lot of changes since i started playing. Some of them have been really cool...others, not so much...

PS: Every single defensive buff i get, a marksman can have too. So they can have equally 'insane' evade rates, while also doling out far more damage, and suffering far less in return.

A lot of people feel marksmen are overpowered, it's not just me.

[sathilda]

when 80% of your arrows are blocked by knights, or Conjs


Add warlocks too, wind wall has changed, we've 25% cover now ;)

reduce the effect of the very few attacks that do get through by 80% or more.

Only mages and barbs can deal with that, i should say only warlocks and barbs. You know, i sometimes have lightning(5) making 24dmg/tick on a lonely marks. In fact it should be less than 24, it's just the 10% dmg rule :o

So i have to wait to be hit to cast Sk and vampirism (i pray before ;)). Stupid, but still not unbalanced.

But anyway on this one they just had a good teamwork. Running away and wait for the buff to end was your only safe choice.

[ljwolfe]

SO... why does most of the playerbase view hunters or warlocks as significantly more powerful than marksman?

this is an rvr game, not an archer vs archer game.

Hunters get the out of jail free cards, including speed and camo.

[ljwolfe]

I used ALL my offensive buffs in the screen shot in question, yet my crits were doing only 40dmg.

That's a lvl 50 hunter with 102 dex and +2% passive dmg using lvl 50 master longbow, lvl 50 compound arrow, 2x deadly sight rings(+30-50slash dmg), deadly strike, and dirty fighting.


Net result= 40hp crit hits.

You think i play this game for my arrows to do 40dmg in a fight, or to have 80% of them blocked?

How many players you think leave, and have left, cause their attacks are totally inneffective? If my attacks do no damage, then there is no point in being there to begin with.

hmm. sounds like the insane evade rates and speed and camo that many hunters have.....

[_dracus_]

SO... why does most of the playerbase view hunters or warlocks as significantly more powerful than marksman?

this is an rvr game, not an archer vs archer game.

Hunters get the out of jail free cards, including speed and camo.

I'll exchange camo against a strategic postion if I could.

[kuroihitomi]

It's so nice to be ignored by the "great" Valorius...he clearly doesn't understand the point of the want to be blocked by him.

If we get enough of us blocked by him, we could actually have meaningful, constructive threads.

And the whole "flame" ruining the thread....well, I seem to remember many threads started as constructive criticisms, and ending with everyone giving up because no one could deal with Val's idiocy any more....funny how that works.

[tak]

It's so nice to be ignored by the "great" Valorius...he clearly doesn't understand the point of the want to be blocked by him.

If we get enough of us blocked by him, we could actually have meaningful, constructive threads.

And the whole "flame" ruining the thread....well, I seem to remember many threads started as constructive criticisms, and ending with everyone giving up because no one could deal with Val's idiocy any more....funny how that works.
Have you people never considered the idea it would be far simpler to ignore Valorius instead?

[BlooD]

Material wall and acrobatic and you have 60% damage resistance to all hunter attacks.

Add that to the armor reduction and you can have that hits easily.

Its 120 secs like acrobatic so you dont need a conjurer in the screenshot.

[CumeriTarenes]

Hunters get the out of jail free cards, including speed and camo.

and a pet, that fights when you are knocked...that fights when you cast spells...that runs trough trees, fort walls and stones. And tracking skills of course.

As I said in another thread, every class has a lot of unique abilities. But marksmen only a very few...actually they can be replaced by other classes very good in most cases.

For this, hunters don't have to complain about imbalance against them at all. Same as marksmen.

Problem with archers is the shared evasion tree. It has to be redesinged completely my opinion. Archers don't need a nerf, they need a change. Evasion should not be that important for a ranged class. What makes them keeping alive should be range, not the evasion tree which allows archer to fight melee.


To the marks armor:

Well, you did 1 dmg at her. This is in fact a knight/conju buff or aura.

And to ethereal arrow which ignores armor: This is one of the few things a marksman has that can hardly be replaced by other classes at all (throat cutter/thirst for blood and soulkeeper/vamp are limited in usage). Don't take it from them. It is unique...and for this it has to be powerful. A conju can heal...he can almost heal as fast as many classes can do damage. But does this makes them overpowered? A hunter can walk around invisible 3/4 all the time with only 10% speed reduction. Does it makes them overpowered?

Unique abilities have to be powerful. If they are not they are not needed in a group because other classes can replace it easily.

[Miraculix]

And to ethereal arrow which ignores armor: This is one of the few things a marksman has that can hardly be replaced by other classes at all (throat cutter/thirst for blood and soulkeeper/vamp are limited in usage). Don't take it from them. It is unique...and for this it has to be powerful. A conju can heal...he can almost heal as fast as many classes can do damage. But does this makes them overpowered? A hunter can walk around invisible 3/4 all the time with only 10% speed reduction. Does it makes them overpowered?

Unique abilities have to be powerful. If they are not they are not needed in a group because other classes can replace it easily.

Excellent point. +1 from me.

[GIGO305]

its true maks armor is to good even better than hunters and they are like ranged barberians, their armor should be alitle weaker :wink:

[Godofsilver]

Val, seriously, just get over it.
Wanna ignore me too?

And, yea, before you say it, this is spam (le gasp!)

[DkySven]

Valorious, why is everything irrelevant when you don't agree with it? Learn to take an argument instead of screaming "Irrelevant!!".

I agree with what the other people said. Probably auras, but we'll never know because there's no evidence.

[fluffy_muffin]

Again, all totally irrelevant.

Just like this dmg on screenshot? This marks was shooting to me for 50dmg. You know why? Because i am hunter :>

[fluffy_muffin]

[...]
What makes them keeping alive should be range, not the evasion tree which allows archer to fight melee.

LOL i want to see how you will fight in melee range :D Evasion tree allow you to don't fight in melee range.

[Valorius]

SO... why does most of the playerbase view hunters or warlocks as significantly more powerful than marksman?

this is an rvr game, not an archer vs archer game.

Hunters get the out of jail free cards, including speed and camo.
I don't think that it does.

Do not mistake the few players on the forums as a good representation of 'the player base'.

[Valorius]

Material wall and acrobatic and you have 60% damage resistance to all hunter attacks.

Add that to the armor reduction and you can have that hits easily.

Its 120 secs like acrobatic so you dont need a conjurer in the screenshot.
I have fought marksmen in the middle of the ignis desert alone in 1 vs 1s and after buffing with suddenstrike/dirty fighting my attacks were still critting in the 60-70 range, meanwhile they're blasting me with massive normal recharged attacks off of death sentence.

And IMO there is no way it should be possible to buff away 95% of an attackers dmg (or for that matter their hits), because it is highly discouraging to the players involved. Who wants to go fight in a big laggy battle when 80% of your arrows are blocked and of those that hit, they crit at a max of 40dmg?

Seriously, NGD needs to make some serious modifications.

Have you people never considered the idea it would be far simpler to ignore Valorius instead?
Well that's either too obvious, or they're actually trolls.

You decide.


Wanna ignore me too?

And, yea, before you say it, this is spam (le gasp!)
Done.

[Valorius]

And to ethereal arrow which ignores armor: This is one of the few things a marksman has that can hardly be replaced by other classes at all (throat cutter/thirst for blood and soulkeeper/vamp are limited in usage). Don't take it from them. It is unique...and for this it has to be powerful. A conju can heal...he can almost heal as fast as many classes can do damage. But does this makes them overpowered? A hunter can walk around invisible 3/4 all the time with only 10% speed reduction. Does it makes them overpowered?

Unique abilities have to be powerful. If they are not they are not needed in a group because other classes can replace it easily.
Gee, and i thought the 1000dmg lightning arrow with -25% group speed debuff, or the +50% max dmg group attack buff death sentence, or the "ignores steel skin" arcana strike were the 'unique' abilities Marksmen had. Oh, wait, i thought it was their UNMATCHED defensive buffs. So it's actually Ethereal arrow that is the 'unique powerful ability'?

How come marksmen also have 90+% of all the hunters 'unique powerful abilities' too?

SOTW-
Rep Shot-
Projectile Rain, etc, etc-

A marksmen gets ALL of that plus his own unique skills.

The problem is, Marksmen are loaded down with ALL KINDS of 'unique powerful abilities'. Too many.

They are overpowered, it's really quite simple.

Meanwhile since i started playing, hunters have been nerfed again and again and again.

As far as pets, they still have far too many bugs for me (They so love to drown themselves at bridges), and they have too many shortcomings. Like none of them having ranged attacks anymore, for one thing. Man do i miss the days of the Ghost Necromancer pet.

Lose your lvl 19 pet- which can be one shot killed by barbs, and 2 shot killed by Warlocks (really every class has a spell to easily deal with pets. For knight it's AoO and Taunt, for Conjs it's steel skin, for archers it's SOTW), and you're just a VERY weak archer.

[-Edge-]

Valorius in all due respect...

When are you going to stop counting one person as the entire class?

First you say because of Yoseba barbs are over powered, and now this? So if you encounter 1 opponent that happens to beat you (it seems as such a shock to you) that instantly means to you that the entire class, everyone is overpowered.

Isnt that like what the media does to the church? They find one priest that rapes some kids then call the rest of the priests kiddy dindelers too?


I guess i need the bow you got. You see the dmg i do with a lvl 50 master bow.

Sure. You can buy it in Korsum.

Ahahahaha...

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was eating pastas (quite good actually) and I thought a bit further of the matter.

It is true that if the best Hunter in whole Regnum dies against another player, his class must be overpowered -- except if this class is itself Hunter of course. Other enemy players, like Conjurers and Knights sacrificing points for skills that don't benefit them directly at all -- but only their allies -- (skill such as Deflecting Barrier or Mana Pylon) don't mean the game should be unbalanced towards Valorius.

If a player has shown the ability to reach over 100k Rps, mind you even be the first of his own realm to get over 100k Rps, then it's obvious his voice should weight more than those of the ignorant masses. Especially when the said player obviously knows so well the game mechanics (natural for the best Hunter).

Thus I have carefully reconsidered my mind and I totally agree with Valorius. This fight is gross. The fact that the cause of the low attacks on the said Marksman is mostly independent of the fact that he's Marksman or that 90% of the defensive capabilities of a Marksman are shared with a Hunter is totally irrelevant to the conversation; if it were a Conjurer on Valorius' side giving him the benefit of Mana Pylon, Marksmen would still be overpowered.

I immediately call NGD to reason and in the name of the best Hunter of the game, demand an immediate nerf of Barbarians and Marksmen.

AHAHAHA...omg this whole thread is filled with hilariousness....

This is why I love these threads. Suggestion: Balance the game so all players are even to Valorius

[ncvr]

It is not one person, it is almost all lvl 40+ Marksmen.

[-Edge-]

It is not one person, it is almost all lvl 40+ Marksmen.
Then really a change in setup or class is needed if thats what Valorius wants. Like Kailer said very well, he knows the risks he takes when he uses spells like dirty fighting.

Boom you switch to a setup thats good on marksman, but then :piz: what gives? It sucks on another class?! What can this mean?

Im sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you will never find a setup that is effective on all classes. Yea im sure it can't be that :sifflote:

[ncvr]

Actually if I remember correctly...

I have a good setup against warjurors, but against Marksmen I'm a little lacking

[-Edge-]

Actually if I remember correctly...
There you go :)

Boom you switch to a setup thats good on marksman, but then :piz: what gives? It sucks on another class?! What can this mean?

I have a good setup against warjurors, but against Marksmen I'm a little lacking

[magnet]

SO... why does most of the playerbase view hunters or warlocks as significantly more powerful than marksman?

this is an rvr game, not an archer vs archer game.

Hunters get the out of jail free cards, including speed and camo.

As a matter of fact, most of the playerbase view Marksmen as the most overpowered class, as seen here:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=21507
+ http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=21723&page=2

(Spanish version + English version);

Adding "General Archers" to Hunters & Marksmen, "General Warriors" to Knights & Barbarians, "General Mages" to Warlocks & Conjurers, not making distinctions between very overpowered, and overpowered (distinction made in the Spanish poll):

Marksmen: 62 (32 spanish -- including 19 for "very overpowered", first option of the poll, 30 english)
Hunters: 46 (13 spanish, 33 english)
Barbarians: 40 (22 spanish, 18 english)
Warlocks: 31 (6 spanish -- including 4 for "very overpowered", 25 english; make your conclusions)
Conjurers: 8 (3 spanish, 5 english)
Knights: 6 (3 spanish, 3 english)

Yes, as you can see, twice "the player base" thinks Marksmen are overpowered over Warlock -- and by much in the Spanish community.

Why the difference? Well, I'd say Spanish people in the Balance forum tend to know the game better than the population of the *general English forum", but that's only my interpretation.

Cheers.

PS: the two polls were made about at the same time (the English one just after) so we're talking about the same game revision.

[Domino_]

Well if u think that marksmen are overpowered, then start to play them and stop whining...
About marks vs hunter at war, marksmen has more armor spells (about your critic dmg) and more dealdy spells so nothing strange that he kills u..
I also have a marks and at war i do some enemy's marks this dmg too, nothing weird ...

PS. I was really missing this thread !!

[magnet]

Well if u think that marksmen are overpowered, then start to play them and stop whining...
About marks vs hunter at war, marksmen has more armor spells (about your critic dmg) and more dealdy spells so nothing strange that he kills u..
I also have a marks and at war i do some enemy's marks this dmg too, nothing weird ...

Actually I play a marksman. And I still find them overpowered (even more so now). I'm sick of this straw hat argument of "if you don't like it, play it". How about YOU try to play other classes rather than Archers for a change and learn about balance? I play 5 classes out of 6 so I think I am entitled to my opinion -- and you sir are just making assumptions: just like Valorius.

You were prolly replying to Valorius though. Doesn't change the fact that it's a moot argument, sorry :)

[Valour]

A hunters pet often hits me quite hard through my protection, just having the right pet because some don't ^^

A hunters job should be to sneak up on the marksman anyway to catch him out imho..

Tear apart and break apart are a pain and not many marksmen invest points in that theirselves.

[Domino_]

Actually I play a marksman. And I still find them overpowered (even more so now). I'm sick of this straw hat argument of "if you don't like it, play it". How about YOU try to play other classes rather than Archers for a change and learn about balance? I play 5 classes out of 6 so I think I am entitled to my opinion -- and you sir are just making assumptions: just like Valorius.

You were prolly replying to Valorius though. Doesn't change the fact that it's a moot argument, sorry :)

I play more classes too, and i KNOW that all class can kill each other, depends only on settings, and marksmen have no buffs for allies = more dmging spells. Maybe thats why u think that they are overpowered !!

[magnet]

I play more classes too, and i KNOW that all class can kill each other, depends only on settings, and marksmen have no buffs for allies = more dmging spells. Maybe thats why u think that they are overpowered !!

Nope, I think they are overpowered because... they have a passive evade, a skill to resist 30% of the spells, another to reduce 30% of the damage (better resist damage than knights), best speed after Hunters and Barbs, best damage after Barbs... And it's possible to make one build with all of that.

All they need is mana, and I hear Conjurers can give quite a lot :p. I play Conju too so I know just how much mana I give to Marksmen and how fast they kill -- just like when Conjurers give mana to my Marks.

All classes can kill each other, true, but Marksmen have more chance to kill others than any class. That's the definition of overpowered I think ;)

[CumeriTarenes]

best speed after Hunters and Barbs, best damage after Barbs

one note on this: Actually knights can be faster than marksmen and I think a warlock can do quite the same damage a marksman can do, maybe even more, but this is just an assumption.

And I agree, marks have no ally buff, so it is quite locigal that they have more power themselve.

But...I also agree about the evasion tree...but I said this already.

[ncvr]

Actually Fireball, Meteor, Stalagmite and Crystal Blast do actually hit harder than Arcane Strike but that's without DS and a warlock can't be with a Marksman all the time.

But Marksman's base attack is higher (normally) and they have Ethereal Arrow which hits 600 dmg even through Skin of the Beast, Steel Skin, AoO or whatever.

And Spring is higher than Mobility, but Marksmen also have SotW and Escapist.

[_dracus_]

And Spring is higher than Mobility, but Marksmen also have SotW and Escapist.

Spring is higher but for a shorter duration.

[ncvr]

Spring is higher but for a shorter duration.
It has 5 seconds lower duration and 10 seconds lower cooldown.

Meaning the only thing is mana, which can regenerate in those 50 seconds. So it is better than Mobility in almost all ways.

[magnet]

one note on this: Actually knights can be faster than marksmen and I think a warlock can do quite the same damage a marksman can do, maybe even more, but this is just an assumption.

And I agree, marks have no ally buff, so it is quite locigal that they have more power themselve.

But...I also agree about the evasion tree...but I said this already.

How can a Knight be faster than a Marks Oo. You forget Escapist and SotW my friend.
On Warlock vs Marksmen damage, I have no doubt really, it's because of casting time mainly: DS + Serpent Bite + Arcana Strike + EA with a short bow will go faster than any Warlock combo, and will deal more damage. Warlocks could replace DS with infuriate, then Marks can add Sudden Strike which is just like Infuriate. Then there's the cooldowns of a Mark which most are shorter than Warlocks' (Arcana Strike 10s, EA 15s, Ignus Scorch 9s, real jokes). And finally Marks can have awesome regular hits with recharged arrows. So imho Warlocks don't compete, but that's not the point; the point is that Marks have it all, in "exchange" of not having buffs for allies... Well you know I don't know many Warlocks who use buffs for allies at war... They use debuffs/combat control against enemies, sure, Marks don't have Terror nor MoD...

For an offensive class, the best thing about "allies buffs" is getting RPs. Most Barbs don't care about giving Off with their heads! or Onslaught to help teammates, they care for Rp. That's why you see Barbs overriding good lv 5 Owth! with a crappy lv 3 or lv 1... For Onslaught it's a bit different because everyone loves a good taxibarb :)
It's obviously different for support Conjurers and Knights whose primary goal is defending their allies and making sure none die.

[Leadoffhitter]

Guess i'm still whining, but...


http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=22304

Most recent poll.

[Valorius]

It is not one person, it is almost all lvl 40+ Marksmen.
It sure is.

I love getting hit for 600dmg through all my buffs by lvl 38 pt marksmen using Ethereal arrow, and i even more love a lvl 38 casting DS on me and hitting me with base arrows at least 2x as powerful as my own.

It is not one marksman or one barb that's overpowered, i never said it was.

but that's not the point; the point is that Marks have it all, in "exchange" of not having buffs for allies...
Actually, death sentence is one of the very best group buffs in the game IMO. Every ranged attacker on his team gets up to 50% dmg on a specific target. Really sudden strike is also a group buff too.

Cumeri: Marksmen are MUCH faster than knights. They can have every speed boost a hunter does, except for the 15% passive.

Marksman can get +25% mobility, +15% SOTW, and +40% escapist.

Like magnet said, marksmen get it all.


A hunters job should be to sneak up on the marksman anyway to catch him out imho..
Sneak up and catch him to do what? Get hit for 600dmg base hits while my own hits do 60dmg each, maximum?

PS: Magnet, after reading your pasta comments: I heard there was a "most hated enemy hunter thread" in the spanish forums recently. Can someone tell me, who won that vote?

[adrianpf]

I love getting hit for 600dmg through all my buffs by lvl 38 pt marksmen using Ethereal arrow, and i even more love a lvl 38 casting DS on me and hitting me with base arrows at least 2x as powerful as my own.

You're missing a point here, NGD made this on purpose. Almost every class can perform well since lvl 37+, why? Because everyone should participate of war, and 50ers. don't rule the WZ.

You must NEVER underestimate someone for being a lower lvl. Lower levels mean less skill points and a few less protection and damage power.

And thanks to the one that gave me bad karma for explaining the combination of skills xD

[Valorius]

You're missing a point here, NGD made this on purpose. Almost every class can perform well since lvl 37+, why? Because everyone should participate of war, and 50ers. don't rule the WZ.

You must NEVER underestimate someone for being a lower lvl. Lower levels mean less skill points and a few less protection and damage power.

And thanks to the one that gave me bad karma for explaining the combination of skills xD
A lvl 38 of any other class is total roadkill but a marksman. A lvl 38 warlock can barely even hit a 50 with any spells, a lvl 38 knight does insignificant dmg, and lvl 38 barb is extremely easy to kill, and a lvl 38 hunter doesn't do anything well but run like hell.

So once again, i disagree. A lvl 38 marksman is WAAAAAY stronger than a lvl 38 of any other class.

Marksmen: 62 (32 spanish -- including 19 for "very overpowered", first option of the poll, 30 english)
Hunters: 46 (13 spanish, 33 english)
Barbarians: 40 (22 spanish, 18 english)
Warlocks: 31 (6 spanish -- including 4 for "very overpowered", 25 english; make your conclusions)
Conjurers: 8 (3 spanish, 5 english)
Knights: 6 (3 spanish, 3 english)

Yes, as you can see, twice "the player base" thinks Marksmen are overpowered over Warlock -- and by much in the Spanish community.

This bears repeating

Since i've been playing, hunters have been repeatedly nerfed, marksmen have been pretty much unchanged, and barbs have had skills and powers added.

[misaccc]

Actualy a lvl37 knight can kill marksman by using trees,stones...atleas i did it...

[adrianpf]

A lvl 38 of any other class is total roadkill but a marksman. A lvl 38 warlock can barely even hit a 50 with any spells, a lvl 38 knight does insignificant dmg, and lvl 38 barb is extremely easy to kill, and a lvl 38 hunter doesn't do anything well but run like hell.

So once again, i disagree. A lvl 38 marksman is WAAAAAY stronger than a lvl 38 of any other class.

Yes, they are way stronger, but I repeat, you must never underestimate lower levels. Most of them are unexperienced, but I saw some ones doing miracles with their low level.

Remember again that during war, this lvl handicap can be reduced by allies and their buffs.

But sticking to the topic:

The problem here are Archers and Evasion skill tree. It has a lot of skills that shouldn't be shared, and some ones that shouldn't exist. And DS in Marksmen should only apply to the caster.

[Valorius]

"misaccc
This message is hidden because misaccc is on your ignore list."

Ignore is a wonderful thing. :thumb:

[Valorius]

Yes, they (marksmen PT) are way stronger(then other lvl 38 classes),
Good, then we agree.

The problem here are Archers and Evasion skill tree. It has a lot of skills that shouldn't be shared, and some ones that shouldn't exist. And DS in Marksmen should only apply to the caster.
Here i disagree. All the hunter really even has left after the -repeated- nerfings is evasion and melee pets that like to drown themselves at every bridge crossing.

Shared trees are highly problematic though, i agree 100% with that. I am fairly convinced the reason the longbow tree sucks so bad is because NGD doesn't want to give marksmen (even more) powerful long range attacks.

I personally (except for pt lvl characters) have no problem with the offense of marksmen, it's their defense that i find insane. The simple removal of strategic positioning would go a mile toward balancing marksmen. If there is any offensive skill they have that i deem to be overpowered, it's ethereal arrow for all the reasons already listed.

[-Edge-]

:jacky_chun: and lvl 38 barb is extremely easy to kill, .
Didn't you start a whole nother thread about how a very easy barb killed you?

[Valorius]

:jacky_chun:
Didn't you start a whole nother thread about how a very easy barb killed you?
A lvl 38 is totally unranked.

In the other thread it was a "very easy" ranked barb, lvl 43-45 being discussed. Here we're talking about lvl 38s.

You will acknowledge that there is a world of difference between the two, yes?

[BlooD]

Here i disagree. All the hunter really even has left after the -repeated- nerfings is evasion and melee pets that like to drown themselves at every bridge crossing.

Shared trees are highly problematic though, i agree 100% with that. I am fairly convinced the reason the longbow tree sucks so bad is because NGD doesn't want to give marksmen (even more) powerful long range attacks.

Here we go again, Valorius dont want his evasion nerfed.....

The only point in this thread is that, i dont want the marksmans with more armor than me.

That will not solve nothing, maybe it solve something for your full evasion setup (you only know how to buff yourself and you rely only in evades/resists)

A target with 2k armor its not a problem for anyone except the ones who rely only in his defense and use low damage attacks. IF you used tear apart a higher lvl dual shoot and this like ambush or stunning fist you have no problem with high armoured targets. The problem comes when they have damage reduction and they are able to evade/resist that spells.

Then you compete in a evade/resist and damage reduction tournament and of course you lose it because you have lower base damage.

You do exactly the same vs mages but you dont care at all, you can kill a mage with only normal attacks and lvl 1 dual shoots while you evade and resist all but who cares, thats because you are so good, when a markman does exactly the same to you then we have a serious problem.

And what is your solution? Nerf the unique thing markmans have for defense in his trees, nerf them but dont touch me.

You make me laugh Val.

[magnet]

PS: Magnet, after reading your pasta comments: I heard there was a "most hated enemy hunter thread" in the spanish forums recently. Can someone tell me, who won that vote?

Well hated doesn't mean good. There are a lot of Hunters I dislike for their lame behavior and I don't think they're good anyhow.
And there are some I dislike and who are good.
And finally some whom I like (even as enemies) and are bad, or good.

Hated != Good.

[adrianpf]

Here i disagree. All the hunter really even has left after the -repeated- nerfings is evasion and melee pets that like to drown themselves at every bridge crossing.

SotW shouldn't exist. Archers should have more tools to keep range, not to eliminate it.

Evasion, even with its "nerfs" is one of the most powerful defense trees in-game. Acrobatic (cheap and cd=dur), Spell Elude (powerful and cd=dur), Mobility, Escapist (cheap and great even in lvl 1) and other ones that even in lvl 1 are useful.

[DkySven]

Why do you think, Valorious, that hunters are so hated when they are so nerved like you say?

[-Edge-]

A lvl 38 is totally unranked.

In the other thread it was a "very easy" ranked barb, lvl 43-45 being discussed. Here we're talking about lvl 38s.

You will acknowledge that there is a world of difference between the two, yes?
Its actually lvl 41-43 for very easy ;)

And its not far away.

[Valorius]

You make me laugh Val.
So add me to ignore, like i just did to you.

Its actually lvl 41-43 for very easy ;)
Unless they changed it, very easy is 43-45, and Easy is 46-48. 49+ is normal.
And its not far away.
There is a huge difference between a lvl 38 and a lvl 43 opponent.

[BlooD]

So add me to ignore, like i just did to you.

NAh its pretty funny seeing how the auto-proclamated best hunter of the game ever show in every thread and post he does how little he knows about the game and how bad he is.

So i will not ignore your post because i laugh with them.


"BlooD
This message is hidden because BlooD is on your ignore list."

Yep, it works on you too.
MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS:


Oh you know how to ignore, you are better than i thougth. I hope you are the first syrtis player with 100.000 ignores is his list, that will be ubber cool.

LOL @ the poll. They are overpowered because the evasion tree but you dont want to understand it.

[Valorius]

"BlooD
This message is hidden because BlooD is on your ignore list."

Yep, ignore works on you too.

MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS:
Marksmen: 62 (32 spanish -- including 19 for "very overpowered", first option of the poll, 30 english)
Hunters: 46 (13 spanish, 33 english)
Barbarians: 40 (22 spanish, 18 english)
Warlocks: 31 (6 spanish -- including 4 for "very overpowered", 25 english; make your conclusions)
Conjurers: 8 (3 spanish, 5 english)
Knights: 6 (3 spanish, 3 english)

[fluffy_muffin]

SotW shouldn't exist.
I know that is sounds heretic... but i agree.

[Miraculix]

I know that is sounds heretic... but i agree.

Probably not a bad idea.

[adrianpf]

I know that is sounds heretic... but i agree.
LOL! Everyone will point at me for saying that, but it's completely true. The worst part is that everyone is used to it. I myself removed it from my configuration and keeping my range, I play more wisely. But it's just my opinion.

[fluffy_muffin]

The worst part is that everyone is used to it. .
I don't. That is why i am so pissed when someone f* up whole fight and when he should die... he cast this shit on lvl 4-5 ¬¬ (yes i know i have confuse)
:p

[-Edge-]

I think hunter armours are overpowered to the great Valorius :wink:

[Valorius]

I think hunter armours are overpowered to the great Valorius :wink:
Damn, i thought i ignored you too.

All fixed now. :)

[ljwolfe]

I respecced last night so that I could ge strategic position. At level 3 it is very nice :). Poor noob hunter tried to gank me while I was fighting a mob but only hit me for 40 - 70 a shot. I unloaded for 300 - 600 per shot. He popped speed and ran away after my 4th shot :). Note that he got away.


I am not sure it's worth it though given the major mana hit. I find that I don't have enough mana in fights. Perhaps I will keep it long enough to annoy a few people.

[ncvr]

Why do you think, Valorious, that hunters are so hated when they are so nerved like you say?
They were nerfed. No more ranged pets is not a nerf?

They are hated because they are lame not because they are powerful.

[Vaylos]

Alright, after seeing this thread I can't keep it in my head anymore.

-lets the caldera blow-
WARNING! Massive flame coming!

<flame on!>

God Val, listening to you in these boards makes me wonder why I -ever- joined the daggers in the first place. You are the worst excuse i've ever seen for a leader. I'm honestly glad I deleted and re-created my barb (I decided to try a different philosophy on him) Getting away from the daggers guild was just a bonus and a breath of fresh air...though I now level in silence.

Oh, and if anyone needs a hunter or a barb in your guild, look me up. I'm through with that one, as of...well....since around last Thanksgiving really. :P

And Val, please ignore me as well, as even though I used to respect you, my opinions now seem to differ greatly from yours, so you may as well silence me too. As it seems only you're allowed to be "right" -tsk- Even worse than an engineer. Anyway, I shall do likewise to spare myself some peace of mind, and we can walk our separate ways like gentleman.

Also, the way you continually silence people who I've seen having good ideas and suggestions...you may as well just stay off the forums altogether. It's not like you've ever had anything productive to say anyways. pfft, you don't even care about the game anymore, so why are you even here !?

Go back to your guildies, and leave the rest of us in peace. -Please!-

</flame off!>

:wiggle14: I feel wierd now :wiggle14:



edit: could someone tell me exactly -how- to ignore someone? I just realized i've not done it before. heh...boy i'm a smart one. :P Just PM me or something....or post here, not like this thread has any relevant purpose anymore anyways.

[Lexen]

Alright, after seeing this thread I can't keep it in my head anymore.

-lets the caldera blow-
WARNING! Massive flame coming!

<flame on!>

God Val, listening to you in these boards makes me wonder why I -ever- joined the daggers in the first place. You are the worst excuse i've ever seen for a leader. I'm honestly glad I deleted and re-created my barb (I decided to try a different philosophy on him) Getting away from the daggers guild was just a bonus and a breath of fresh air...though I now level in silence.

Oh, and if anyone needs a hunter or a barb in your guild, look me up. I'm through with that one, as of...well....since around last Thanksgiving really. :P

And Val, please ignore me as well, as even though I used to respect you, my opinions now seem to differ greatly from yours, so you may as well silence me too. As it seems only you're allowed to be "right" -tsk- Even worse than an engineer. Anyway, I shall do likewise to spare myself some peace of mind, and we can walk our separate ways like gentleman.

Also, the way you continually silence people who I've seen having good ideas and suggestions...you may as well just stay off the forums altogether. It's not like you've ever had anything productive to say anyways. pfft, you don't even care about the game anymore, so why are you even here !?

Go back to your guildies, and leave the rest of us in peace. -Please!-

</flame off!>

:wiggle14: I feel wierd now :wiggle14:



edit: could someone tell me exactly -how- to ignore someone? I just realized i've not done it before. heh...boy i'm a smart one. :P Just PM me or something....or post here, not like this thread has any relevant purpose anymore anyways.

I definitely agree.. And anyways val, what do you care if you are hitting lower damage. Its the evasion. And if you are hitting less it makes it more of a challenge. Seriously its call your setup and your the one that chooses it so dont complaine about your mistakes.....

And anyways Vaylos, to ignore someone go into User CP. In the bottom left go into buddy / ignore list.

Hopefully this makes sense very tired right now..

EDIT: And ofc you are going to ignore me because you really dont care what anyone has to say.

[Miraculix]

Getting away from the daggers guild was just a bonus and a breath of fresh air...though I now level in silence.

Oh, and if anyone needs a hunter or a barb in your guild, look me up. I'm through with that one, as of...well....since around last Thanksgiving really. :P


/me holds up a big Inquisition sign

[ljwolfe]

unfortunately i must agree. as a guy who advertises how uber he is and how quickly he earned rps, it's pathetic and sad to see him whining about a class that's not nearly as hated as his own. the guy has good ideas in rvr, but i can't stomach the boner he has to nerf my class when his class is far more cheesy.

[fluffy_muffin]

They were nerfed. No more ranged pets is not a nerf?

No it is not :D I was playing my marks when hunters had ranged pets. And i wasn't funny you know.... Btw. it was bugfix :D

[_dracus_]

<flame on!>

God Val, listening to you in these boards makes me wonder why I -ever- joined the daggers in the first place. You are the worst excuse i've ever seen for a leader. I'm honestly glad I deleted and re-created my barb (I decided to try a different philosophy on him) Getting away from the daggers guild was just a bonus and a breath of fresh air...though I now level in silence.

Oh, and if anyone needs a hunter or a barb in your guild, look me up. I'm through with that one, as of...well....since around last Thanksgiving really. :P

And Val, please ignore me as well, as even though I used to respect you, my opinions now seem to differ greatly from yours, so you may as well silence me too. As it seems only you're allowed to be "right" -tsk- Even worse than an engineer. Anyway, I shall do likewise to spare myself some peace of mind, and we can walk our separate ways like gentleman.
</flame off!>

:wiggle14: I feel wierd now :wiggle14:


Thanks pleasure was mine, if leaving Daggers was good for you, I'm really happy. Even if I don't remember who you were playing. Hope to see you in game.

PS: Can you keep it personnal with Val, and not all the clan.

[_Edge]

Ah Val you forgot to Ignore this account too :thumb:

I had fun killing you yesterday without using a SC, Ripost, or Unstopable Madness once ;)

MMM the second one of you falling in slow motion screaming NOOOOooooo is funny

BTW imo a "real hunters" are people like Fluffy Muffin, and taker from Ignis.

Ive never seen taker use a SotW or a camo in my life,

[Valour]

BTW imo a "real hunters" are people like Fluffy Muffin, and taker from Ignis.

Ive never seen taker use a SotW or a camo in my life,


And taker has a good strong setup without a pet and sotw or camo that does damage... Or doesn't get him killed by level 42 barbarians even with the help of a knight ^^

Edge is overpowered imho xD

[-Edge-]

And taker has a good strong setup without a pet and sotw or camo that does damage... Or doesn't get him killed by level 42 barbarians even with the help of a knight ^^

Edge is overpowered imho xD
You also forgot too add he NEVER runs away

:beerchug: TAKER PWNZ :beerchug:

By the way Val, the knight in the pic was Ferraje, he was knocking me down, it was 5 on 2 I belive

[Valorius]

Ah Val you forgot to Ignore this account too :thumb:

I had fun killing you yesterday without using a SC, Ripost, or Unstopable Madness once ;)

MMM the second one of you falling in slow motion screaming NOOOOooooo is funny

BTW imo a "real hunters" are people like Fluffy Muffin, and taker from Ignis.

Ive never seen taker use a SotW or a camo in my life,
That was a battle by numerous opponents on both sides, i'd been fighting another Ignis player(who i killed, by the way), and was almost dead already when you got me. I had no mana at all left for any sort of trickery (ambush, escapist, low profile, etc) And i'd already killed 10 other ignis during that hunt. Yes, you chased me around and hit me as i killed other ignis, and finally got me after i'd killed my target and attempted to retire.

Big deal. You got me. You died 2 seconds later.

I really don't care what you 'consider to be a good hunter' anyway.

[Valorius]

unfortunately i must agree. as a guy who advertises how uber he is and how quickly he earned rps, it's pathetic and sad to see him whining about a class that's not nearly as hated as his own. the guy has good ideas in rvr, but i can't stomach the boner he has to nerf my class when his class is far more cheesy.

MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS:
Marksmen: 62 (32 spanish -- including 19 for "very overpowered", first option of the poll, 30 english)
Hunters: 46 (13 spanish, 33 english)
Barbarians: 40 (22 spanish, 18 english)
Warlocks: 31 (6 spanish -- including 4 for "very overpowered", 25 english; make your conclusions)
Conjurers: 8 (3 spanish, 5 english)
Knights: 6 (3 spanish, 3 english)

I guess you should pay better attention Columba. It seems that it's Marksmen that most people feel is 'more cheesy'.

Alright, after seeing this thread I can't keep it in my head anymore.
You don't even play the game at all last time i checked.

Ignored.

I definitely agree.. And anyways val, what do you care if you are hitting lower damage. Its the evasion. And if you are hitting less it makes it more of a challenge. Seriously its call your setup and your the one that chooses it so dont complaine about your mistakes.....

EDIT: And ofc you are going to ignore me because you really dont care what anyone has to say.
Hitting for 40hp crit hits sure is a 'challenge' when your opponent has approx 3000hp alright.

I have max possible offense at this time. Now i hit self-buffed 'defensive' marksmen for 60hp crits.

Thanks so much for your wonderful advice.

Oh LOOK Taker:

MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS:
Marksmen: 62 (32 spanish -- including 19 for "very overpowered", first option of the poll, 30 english)
Hunters: 46 (13 spanish, 33 english)
Barbarians: 40 (22 spanish, 18 english)
Warlocks: 31 (6 spanish -- including 4 for "very overpowered", 25 english; make your conclusions)
Conjurers: 8 (3 spanish, 5 english)
Knights: 6 (3 spanish, 3 english)

Note that the next highest "very overpowered" class has only 4 votes to Marksmens 19.

The class is flat out overpowered.

[BlooD]

Can somebody explain to Valorius the results of that poll?

A lot of people say the marksmans are overpowered because they share the evasion tree. Valorius think it is because they have more armor with strategic position.

They want evasion nerfed for all archers, Valorius want an armor reduction only for marksman.

Its like a child saying: I Am riiiiiiiiigthhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! See they say it heeeeeeere.

But he is as always missing the whole point.

[fluffy_muffin]

[...]
They want evasion nerfed for all archers, Valorius want an armor reduction only for marksman.

And i want deleting zarkits form this game. There is no other pet in this game who hit me so hard - with all my buffs.
Will this happen? I don't think so.

[BlooD]

And i want deleting zarkits form this game. There is no other pet in this game who hit me so hard - with all my buffs.
Will this happen? I don't think so.

And you want a cookie for that?

I am just saying valorius is using a pool who say Marksmans are overpowered to prove he is rigth. But the people voted the marksmans for the evasion not for the armor.

[Godofsilver]

@ Val: This message is hidden because Godofsilver is on your ignore list

Please, just get over it...

[_Edge]

That was a battle by numerous opponents on both sides, i'd been fighting another Ignis player(who i killed, by the way), and was almost dead already when you got me. I had no mana at all left for any sort of trickery (ambush, escapist, low profile, etc) And i'd already killed 10 other ignis during that hunt. Yes, you chased me around and hit me as i killed other ignis, and finally got me after i'd killed my target and attempted to retire.


Actually it was more like 5 on 2 including Ferraje constantly knocking me down, and I had to kill you using normal attacks and 2 balestra, I bet after I killed you, you were ripping out your hairs screaming

Valorius: OMG....how did a barb without Unstopable Madness, Sc, or Ripost beat me?!

*Valorius gets a big stamp and puts it over my name showing in Red bold print:

OVERPOWERED

[fluffy_muffin]

And you want a cookie for that?

No, but kiss would be nice :]
You mean evasion or evasion tree? Cause Acrobatic + Evasive tactic + Strategic reduce dmg and increase armor.

IMVO all those flames are just blah blah blah blah, same as pools ;] and nothing will be changed so drastically as ppl want. They want lower evasion, lower dmg from barbs, no confuse etc. and i want no zarkits and no sotw. But it is all just a wishes or frustration nothing more ;]

[ljwolfe]

sorry val. I am reading the English polls. I don't really care about some made up spanish one.

[Lexen]

Hitting for 40hp crit hits sure is a 'challenge' when your opponent has approx 3000hp alright.

I have max possible offense at this time. Now i hit self-buffed 'defensive' marksmen for 60hp crits.

Thanks so much for your wonderful advice.

Oh LOOK Taker:


Lol val are you even buffing ur self to get them to hit you for low. It looks like your are not. Because when i am buffed they only hit me for 100's and i hit them for 80-100's.

So maybe its just your setup.

Anyways for the chart, it is all based on the person's setup and the way they play the char. Even without using sotw, you can basically kill any class. But thats just my opinion. If you dont like it then too bad. But seriously the person that was always first in the charts for hunters complaining about this its unblieveable. You should be able to figure out a setup thats is even better so that you can kill marks.

Anyways good luck on that.

[-Edge-]

Lol val are you even buffing ur self to get them to hit you for low. It looks like your are not. Because when i am buffed they only hit me for 100's and i hit them for 80-100's.

So maybe its just your setup.

Anyways for the chart, it is all based on the person's setup and the way they play the char. Even without using sotw, you can basically kill any class. But thats just my opinion. If you dont like it then too bad. But seriously the person that was always first in the charts for hunters complaining about this its unblieveable. You should be able to figure out a setup thats is even better so that you can kill marks.

Anyways good luck on that.
I agree, Val you look like a joke

[BlooD]

No, but kiss would be nice :]
You mean evasion or evasion tree? Cause Acrobatic + Evasive tactic + Strategic reduce dmg and increase armor.

IMVO all those flames are just blah blah blah blah, same as pools ;] and nothing will be changed so drastically as ppl want. They want lower evasion, lower dmg from barbs, no confuse etc. and i want no zarkits and no sotw. But it is all just a wishes or frustration nothing more ;]

No i mean the whole evasion tree, who gives you evasion, resistance, speed, armor and damage reduction all in one.

One thing is saying you want to remove it an another is nerf or adjust them, if you give another options to the hunter he doesnt need to use evasion all the time and of course i dont think the marksman need with the damage he have.

The point is a ranged class cant have better defenses than the melee ones and that is what evasion tree gives and you have speed and invulnerability too in it. Its just too much in one tree.

Edit: I forgot the kiss! :3

[ljwolfe]

last time i looked, mages can evade/block 75% of my shots. Which ranged class has great defenses again???

[misaccc]

last time i looked, mages can evade/block 75% of my shots. Which ranged class has great defenses again???

you prolly get that from fort wars...and that defence doesnt come only from mages...thats wind wall+deflecting...

[Vaylos]

PS: Can you keep it personnal with Val, and not all the clan.

My apologies, I mean no disrespect to the rest of the daggers. Drah in particular is pretty even-keel and one I respect. And I'd gladly take him as a leader over loose-cannon Val. Val's a Good tactician and all, but when it comes to tact and discussion, and respecting differing opinions and schools of thought, then forget about it.

Again, good players in the guild, it's just I can't stand the current leader, and Val's not someone I'd gladly follow to my demise.

And for the record, I was a lvl 36 barb, same as my forum name. But I deleted him and remade him based on a different concept, he's coming along pretty well, just not much time to play these days with a fulltime job, and trying to get my music along. My current primary is Marek, a hunter. Getting close to warzone ready. Not quite there yet though.

Edit: At least to be -partially- on topic....Yeah, sometimes you come up against some tough spots, but changing your ways and your thinking process can usually see you through them. Stubborn is what gets you killed, you have to be flexible and adjust for various situations.

[fluffy_muffin]

[...]
The point is a ranged class cant have better defenses
Yes i also agree that steel skin is overpowered :p

[Valorius]

Lol val are you even buffing ur self to get them to hit you for low. It looks like your are not. Because when i am buffed they only hit me for 100's and i hit them for 80-100's.

So maybe its just your setup.

Anyways for the chart, it is all based on the person's setup and the way they play the char. Even without using sotw, you can basically kill any class. But thats just my opinion. If you dont like it then too bad. But seriously the person that was always first in the charts for hunters complaining about this its unblieveable. You should be able to figure out a setup thats is even better so that you can kill marks.

Anyways good luck on that.
I use max evasion skills. Lvl 5 in almost everything. Ev. Tactics, Acrobat, Spell Elude, Intellect, SOTW, etc.

[Valorius]

Actually it was more like 5 on 2 including Ferraje constantly knocking me down, and I had to kill you using normal attacks and 2 balestra, I bet after I killed you, you were ripping out your hairs screaming

Valorius: OMG....how did a barb without Unstopable Madness, Sc, or Ripost beat me?!

*Valorius gets a big stamp and puts it over my name showing in Red bold print:

OVERPOWERED
No, i really didn't pay it any mind at all. I die all the time, like everyone else. It was a battle. Big deal.

It was also not a 5 vs 2.

sorry val. I am reading the English polls. I don't really care about some made up spanish one.
If it is made up, it was magnet that made it up. Did you notice the poll is a quote from his post?

I have no doubt that magnet honestly compiled that poll, and thank him for his efforts.

[-Edge-]

I use max evasion skills. Lvl 5 in almost everything. Ev. Tactics, Acrobat, Spell Elude, Intellect, SOTW, etc.
If everyone just played offensive instead of running away evading the whole game would be better

[Valorius]

MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS:
Marksmen: 62 (32 spanish -- including 19 for "very overpowered", first option of the poll, 30 english)
Hunters: 46 (13 spanish, 33 english)
Barbarians: 40 (22 spanish, 18 english)
Warlocks: 31 (6 spanish -- including 4 for "very overpowered", 25 english; make your conclusions)
Conjurers: 8 (3 spanish, 5 english)
Knights: 6 (3 spanish, 3 english)
Squirm on your hook a little more marksmen. :fingers:

[trash]

That was dramatic, I thought that was dramatic, did you all think that was dramatic, I did, very very well phrased...

So a poll of *almost* 200 players, that must be almost, well all the Regnum community. Definitive proof we have all been out debated again I'd say.

Yup.


Shame it also shows people think barbarians are less over powered than hunters though, that kind of ridicules your barbarians are over powered thread...

[ljwolfe]

too bad val payed them all off or created several accounts to vote marksman!

[Lexen]

too bad val payed them all off or created several accounts to vote marksman!
Lol that might be very true. Anyways val if you have that all maxed then why are they hitting you for 300's. Maybe you didnt have them on at the time.

[ncvr]

too bad val payed them all off or created several accounts to vote marksman!
It was a public poll, magnet made a few links to it, and when Val found out it was closed.

[UmarilsStillHere]

i only read the first page but dude hes a KNIGHT he has 7 bazillion tons of armour! if u could hit him like u could hit everyone else hed be pointless im a knight and conjus average 15 on me y because i have 7 bazillion tons of armour!

_point made_

[Valorius]

too bad val payed them all off or created several accounts to vote marksman!
Yep, now you go on the ignore list too.

It was a public poll, magnet made a few links to it, and when Val found out it was closed.
Some people would rather call someone else a liar then simply admit they're totally wrong.

MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS:
Marksmen: 62 (32 spanish -- including 19 for "very overpowered", first option of the poll, 30 english)
Hunters: 46 (13 spanish, 33 english)
Barbarians: 40 (22 spanish, 18 english)
Warlocks: 31 (6 spanish -- including 4 for "very overpowered", 25 english; make your conclusions)
Conjurers: 8 (3 spanish, 5 english)
Knights: 6 (3 spanish, 3 english)

62 votes for marksman, 16 more than for any other class, including 19 votes for very overpowered- 15 more than for any other class.

Those numbers speak for themselves.

i only read the first page but dude hes a KNIGHT he has 7 bazillion tons of armour! if u could hit him like u could hit everyone else hed be pointless im a knight and conjus average 15 on me y because i have 7 bazillion tons of armour!

_point made_
He was not a knight, he is a marksman.

Jeez...

[magnet]

Yep, now you go on the ignore list too.


Some people would rather call someone else a liar then simply admit they're totally wrong.

MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS:


62 votes for marksman, 16 more than for any other class, including 19 votes for very overpowered- 15 more than for any other class.

Those numbers speak for themselves.


He was not a knight, he is a marksman.

Jeez...

I have to point out the new exact same poll for which you voted Valorius:
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=22304

At this moment:
#1 Hunters: 33
#2 Marksmen: 23
#3 Barbarians: 9
#4 Warlocks and Knights ex aequo: 7
#6 Conjurers: 4

Quite explicit, isn't it? Please note that in Spanish they don't use "overpowered" but desbalanceado which means unbalanced; at first the poll was "which class is most unbalanced", and some Knights and others voted Knights and Warlocks for "desbalanceado negativemente" (negatively unbalanced), the poll was later edited that it was about positive unbalance "desbalanceado positivemente". I'm sure the Archers could have reached even highers levels :)

[UmarilsStillHere]

was talking about the marksman winging about hitting low on knights...

[misaccc]

Huh?marksman hitting low on knights?

[UmarilsStillHere]

whod of thunk it?

[Valorius]

I have to point out the new exact same poll for which you voted Valorius:
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=22304

At this moment:
#1 Hunters: 33
#2 Marksmen: 23
#3 Barbarians: 9
#4 Warlocks and Knights ex aequo: 7
#6 Conjurers: 4

Quite explicit, isn't it? Please note that in Spanish they don't use "overpowered" but desbalanceado which means unbalanced; at first the poll was "which class is most unbalanced", and some Knights and others voted Knights and Warlocks for "desbalanceado negativemente" (negatively unbalanced), the poll was later edited that it was about positive unbalance "desbalanceado positivemente". I'm sure the Archers could have reached even highers levels :)
Hunters have been nerfed time and again since i started playing. I have no doubt that they will be nerfed again, whether it's right or wrong.

Some aspects of hunters are probably a little out of balance, but i think the reason hunters get so many votes is not because of imbalance, but because a clever hunter can be EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING to play against because of their ability to escape from almost any situation.

Escaping from a barb/hunter or 2x barb pursuit tandem is pretty much impossible for hunters now, but for anyone else, we can get away pretty much at will. So, hunter shows up, shoots your buddy while you lvl, kills him, then disappears or takes off running like the wind, it seems like they're 'invincible' to many players.

Marksmen however, are like hunters with double the firepower, numerous skills that can ignore even spells like army of one or steel skin (such as serpent bite, tear apart, break apart, ethereal arrow and arcana strike), 80% MORE armor than hunters, and just 15% less speed than hunters have. They have every single evasion and offensive attack skill a hunter gets except ensnare arrow(a spell that was improved for hunters, and one that i've openly stated is now too strong. So i DO try to be objective and fair, this is not about "me"). Marksmen also have the longest range, a variety of extremely powerful area attacks, death sentence(one of the most potent attack spells in the entire game) and recharged arrows.

[magnet]

Hunters have been nerfed time and again since i started playing. I have no doubt that they will be nerfed again, whether it's right or wrong.

Some aspects of hunters are probably a little out of balance, but i think the reason hunters get so many votes is not because of imbalance, but because a clever hunter can be EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING to play against because of their ability to escape from almost any situation.

Escaping from a barb/hunter or 2x barb pursuit tandem is pretty much impossible for hunters now, but for anyone else, we can get away pretty much at will. So, hunter shows up, shoots your buddy while you lvl, kills him, then disappears or takes off running like the wind, it seems like they're 'invincible' to many players.

Marksmen however, are like hunters with double the firepower, numerous skills that can ignore even spells like army of one or steel skin (such as serpent bite, tear apart, break apart, ethereal arrow and arcana strike), 80% MORE armor than hunters, and just 15% less speed than hunters have. They have every single evasion and offensive attack skill a hunter gets except ensnare arrow(a spell that was improved for hunters, and one that i've openly stated is now too strong. So i DO try to be objective and fair, this is not about "me"). Marksmen also have the longest range, a variety of extremely powerful area attacks, death sentence(one of the most potent attack spells in the entire game) and recharged arrows.

You have no idea how those 15% speed and camouflage make up for not being a Marksman. I think Marskmen are more overpowered only because a Hunter's base attack is quite low. However they deserve the 2nd overpowered class trophy in my mind. It's easy; just remove the luck spells that I said in the other thread (SotW, Dodge, Spell Eludes), you can keep cat reflexes :). And have the passive speed back to 10% (if Evasion is removed you can keep it to 15% maybe :p).

As Blood said, you're fooling yourself if you don't see that the same problem with Marksmen exist with Hunters.

[ljwolfe]

hunter's damage isn't that bad. I was getting hit for 250+ last night by hunters despite having acrobat, strategic position both up.

[Valorius]

You have no idea how those 15% speed and camouflage make up for not being a Marksman. I think Marskmen are more overpowered only because a Hunter's base attack is quite low. However they deserve the 2nd overpowered class trophy in my mind. It's easy; just remove the luck spells that I said in the other thread (SotW, Dodge, Spell Eludes), you can keep cat reflexes :). And have the passive speed back to 10% (if Evasion is removed you can keep it to 15% maybe :p).

As Blood said, you're fooling yourself if you don't see that the same problem with Marksmen exist with Hunters.
Cat reflexes doesn't even seem to work, to be honest. I have no idea what Blood said, he is on my ignore list.

Take away SOTW, Dodge, and Spell elude, and you'd have to give a hunter marksman like offense for him to have any chance at all. In fact, even if you gave a hunter all of a marksmans offense, he would still have 80% less armor than the marksman anyway (which is also the case now). Also, without spell elude, hunters are easy pickings for warlocks. Once dizzied a hunters base attack is so low that if the hunter didn't evade most of the warlocks spells the hunter would be dead long before the hunter could defeat the warlock or escape. A dizzied hunter is extremely limited in firepower, it is only the hunters high evasion rates that lets him survive at all in dizzied situations. A marksman on the other hand has all the defense of a hunter, 80% MORE armor, and offensive capabilities and range 2nd to none.

A hunter may be 15% faster than a marksman, but the marksman also has a 45 max range potential.

The new camoflage is extremely limited because of the cast time, and for offense it really doesn't give you any added bonus or special damgage like it does in WoW, for instance. In WoW, a rogue attacking from cloak with "ambush" does +300% weapon dmg. In order for Camo to ever really be an offensive skill, the first attack from camo would have to have a significant attack bonus, like it does in WoW. In WoW, invisibility is truly an offensive capability.

In Regnum, it is far more useful for defense, and far less so than it used to be.

[magnet]

Cat reflexes doesn't even seem to work, to be honest. I have no idea what Blood said, he is on my ignore list.

Take away SOTW, Dodge, and Spell elude, and you'd have to give a hunter marksman like offense for him to have any chance at all. In fact, even if you gave a hunter all of a marksmans offense, he would still have 80% less armor than the marksman anyway (which is also the case now). Also, without spell elude, hunters are easy pickings for warlocks. Once dizzied a hunters base attack is so low that if the hunter didn't evade most of the warlocks spells the hunter would be dead long before the hunter could defeat the warlock or escape. A dizzied hunter is extremely limited in firepower, it is only the hunters high evasion rates that lets him survive at all in dizzied situations. A marksman on the other hand has all the defense of a hunter, 80% MORE armor, and offensive capabilities and range 2nd to none.

A hunter may be 15% faster than a marksman, but the marksman also has a 45 max range potential.

The new camoflage is extremely limited because of the cast time, and for offense it really doesn't give you any added bonus or special damgage like it does in WoW, for instance. In WoW, a rogue attacking from cloak with "ambush" does +300% weapon dmg. In order for Camo to ever really be an offensive skill, the first attack from camo would have to have a significant attack bonus, like it does in WoW. In WoW, invisibility is truly an offensive capability.

In Regnum, it is far more useful for defense, and far less so than it used to be.

I replied in the "sister" thread since it was the same topic.

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=361528&postcount=39

[DkySven]

Valorious, keep in mind that this is not WoW.

[Valorius]

I compare regnum to WoW- the most popular MMO game on the planet- as a 'bench mark' standard, or a relevant parallel.

WoW has a couple things that i really don't like (the respawn after death rules makes battles largely futile, and it's just tooooo much grinding), but it is a great game, and there would be nothing wrong with Regnum using it for inspiration/guildance in some of these matters. I've also compared Regnum to other MMOs as well. Soon i will be playing guild wars, and i'm sure i will in the future make comparisons to that as well.

BTW Magnet, removing SOTW takes away a VERY VERY useful 15% speed burst from Hunters- one that is neccesary to outrun barbs on foot. Since so many others want to take away Camo too, a hunter would be utterly unable to escape most of the situations he can now, and would need massive offensive revamping.

In effect, you would have created a 2nd marksman class.

If one does want to make Invis a truly offensive spell then i would suggest leaving cast time unchanged for camo, making it impossible to cast it while under SOTW, reducing mana cost and cooldown, and giving it a huge offensive attack 1st hit bonus like onslaught gives.

But to be honest, i'd rather just have the old camo back.

If Spell Elude was removed, i'd probably just stop playing again. I have no desire to be a warlocks plaything.

[Envy]

BTW Magnet, removing SOTW takes away a VERY VERY useful 15% speed burst from Hunters- one that is neccesary to outrun barbs on foot. Since so many others want to take away Camo too, a hunter would be utterly unable to escape most of the situations he can now, and would need massive offensive revamping.

In effect, you would have created a 2nd marksman class.

If one does want to make Invis a truly offensive spell then i would suggest leaving cast time unchanged for camo, making it impossible to cast it while under SOTW, reducing mana cost and cooldown, and giving it a huge offensive attack 1st hit bonus like onslaught gives.


I would be fine with SotW if it lived up to it's description. I'd want the evasion only to apply when moving, and perhaps there would be a second or so of a warm up period when you start moving. That way it would not be as effective being used to tank and attack, and wouldn't allow for the SotW + Camo annoyance. I'd even be fine with it being a Hunter only skill. Alas I haven't thought about it too much, and there are a lot of SotW/Camo suggestions out there.

How can you be moving as fast as the wind while not... moving?

[El_Naso]

I´m sorry, I can´t help asking... why in hell haven´t you made a marks yet val? All you ever do when mentioning them is complain that they are soo overpowered. I get it, we have twice the defences and twice the attack, plus the arrow mastery tree, but instead of all that you´d rether have speed, camo and pets (my memory sucks, you used to have pets but now you don´t, right?).

I don´t mean this as flaming, It just seems to me that you want to play as a marks rather than a hunter.

Now, on topic,
...
I personally think that tunning down the evasion marks get from dex is the right way to go. With [a little] less evasion we´d be more vulnerable to battle decisive spells such as knocks, drains, debuffs, dizzy, stun, freeze and so on, making ridiculously high armor matter much less. Another one is to add an evasion penalty (say, 30%?) to strategic position...

PS: hunters haven´t been always nerfed. They have unique abilities and and that´s why they need to be revised more often. There was a time when wild spirit was +10% movment speed. Remember that.

[-Edge-]

I would be fine with SotW if it lived up to it's description. I'd want the evasion only to apply when moving, and perhaps there would be a second or so of a warm up period when you start moving.
So it would work like Dodge or Escape from Guild wars:

Dodge:
The caster runs 33% faster for (Blah,blah,blah) seconds and has 46% chance to dodge all incoming projectiles

Escape:
The caster runs 33% faster for (Blah,blah,blah) seconds and has a 46% chance to dodge all incoming attacks

[Envy]

So it would work like Dodge or Escape from Guild wars:

Dodge:
The caster runs 33% faster for (Blah,blah,blah) seconds and has 46% chance to dodge all incoming projectiles

Escape:
The caster runs 33% faster for (Blah,blah,blah) seconds and has a 46% chance to dodge all incoming attacks

Never played Guild Wars, but they stole my bloody idea somehow, and before I'd thought of it xD

But yea like that.

[ljwolfe]

sad to see a good player cry like a little girl because he can't win every fight.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

haha needing the extra 15% speed boost, well just remove the evasion part from sotw and turn down mana then you have the 15% speed still haha. mobility anyone?
*cough* anyway on a more serious note, nerf evasion/resist/block rates thx then damage reduction won't mean shit as you would need skills to overcome your opponent.

I don't think moving should increase evasion chances if it doesn't decrease hit chances, the problem is there's not really any downside effect of having a superman defense (apart from evasive tactics, but then again it gives more armor)

[Envy]

haha needing the extra 15% speed boost, well just remove the evasion part from sotw and turn down mana then you have the 15% speed still haha. mobility anyone?
*cough* anyway on a more serious note, nerf evasion/resist/block rates thx then damage reduction won't mean shit as you would need skills to overcome your opponent.

I don't think moving should increase evasion chances if it doesn't decrease hit chances, the problem is there's not really any downside effect of having a superman defense (apart from evasive tactics, but then again it gives more armor)

Which is why I think the evasion should not be there when you aren't moving, so if you use it to attack, you can be punished for it.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Which is why I think the evasion should not be there when you aren't moving, so if you use it to attack, you can be punished for it.
so no extra evasion for moving? Hm I don't think that's kinda fair unless you're able to do spell/power casting while moving too then

[ncvr]

was talking about the marksman winging about hitting low on knights...
He was a hunter hitting lower on marksmen, an OFFENSIVE class...

Nobody whines about hitting low on knights. La Intocable is a lvl 50 Alsius Marksman.

If one does want to make Invis a truly offensive spell then i would suggest leaving cast time unchanged for camo, making it impossible to cast it while under SOTW, reducing mana cost and cooldown, and giving it a huge offensive attack 1st hit bonus like onslaught gives.
Yep, right now it's only good for getting the advantage of landing the first hit. A ~100 dmg first hit.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

like no? It will result in more lameness from hunters. There should be penalties like not being able to cast it if you're targeted.

[ncvr]

like no? It will result in more lameness from hunters. There should be penalties like not being able to cast it if you're targeted.
I have nothing wrong with that.

I even suggested that if any realm enemies (visible or not) came within a set distance the spell would be interrupted or unable to be cast.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I have nothing wrong with that.

I even suggested that if any realm enemies (visible or not) came within a set distance the spell would be interrupted or unable to be cast.
yep, the thing is, I don't know if some people will keep hunters targeted under fort wars making them unable to cast camo and will encourage more to go solohunting than fighting in war

[Vroek]

Yep, right now it's only good for getting the advantage of landing the first hit. A ~100 dmg first hit.

Yeah or confuse, that will screw up all classes defence, debuffs or chance to escape.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Yeah or confuse, that will screw up all classes defence, debuffs or chance to escape.
or ambush which you can use if your target gets aggroed

[Envy]

so no extra evasion for moving? Hm I don't think that's kinda fair unless you're able to do spell/power casting while moving too then

No, meaning you should only get the extra evasion when moving. And the whole point of this is so you couldn't use attack while in this near invulnerable state. It would also add more (not much) skill required for those using it to attack with, just move if you think you're going to get attacked.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

No, meaning you should only get the extra evasion when moving. And the whole point of this is so you couldn't use attack while in this near invulnerable state. It would also add more (not much) skill required for those using it to attack with, just move if you think you're going to get attacked.
and you have to stand still everytime you want the shooting countdown timer to start inbetween shots

[Valorius]

I´m sorry, I can´t help asking... why in hell haven´t you made a marks yet val? All you ever do when mentioning them is complain that they are soo overpowered. I get it, we have twice the defences and twice the attack, plus the arrow mastery tree, but instead of all that you´d rether have speed, camo and pets (my memory sucks, you used to have pets but now you don´t, right?).

I don´t mean this as flaming, It just seems to me that you want to play as a marks rather than a hunter.
It's not about my character, it's about class balance.

Me making a marksman does not change the fact that they're overpowered now.

PS: hunters haven´t been always nerfed. They have unique abilities and and that´s why they need to be revised more often. There was a time when wild spirit was +10% movment speed. Remember that.
When passive sprint was +10%, Onslaught was only +25% for 30 seconds.

BTW: Marksmen have unique abilities as well- too many of them, and they're too powerful, and IMO and a lot of other players' opinions, they need to be nerfed.

[BlooD]

It's not about my character, it's about class balance.

Me making a marksman does not change the fact that they're overpowered now.


When passive sprint was +10%, Onslaught was only +25% for 30 seconds.

BTW: Marksmen have unique abilities as well- too many of them, and they're too powerful, and IMO and a lot of other players' opinions, they need to be nerfed.

Onslaugth was 45 segs.

BTW a lot of players think marksmans have to be nerfed but you are the only one who only wants to nerf his armor and not his evasion tree.

[ljwolfe]

you may not see this Val since I am also being ignored. Clearly most people on this forum disagree with you based on the english language poll. I don't hear a lot of people in realm chat whining about marksmen. I hear a few about other classes. So your statement that others agree with your assessment is flawed.

[ncvr]

"Damn hunters!" Implies not that they are overpowered, it is that they are annoying and kill people resting on half hp or whatever they did this time.

[Valorius]

"Damn hunters!" Implies not that they are overpowered, it is that they are annoying and kill people resting on half hp or whatever they did this time.
There used to be a hunter bug right after the revive pet spell was introduced, whereupon you could get a lvl 19/5 pet then reskill to lvl 17 pets, with lvl 4 tame beasts(i only ever tried it with a great sabertooth), and still revive your lvl 5 pet. Obviously that free'd up a ton of discipline points and 1 power point.

That was the only time in my entire regnum playing experience where i thought, "Wow, this is like stealing candy from children." I played that way for about 2-3 hours and quickly became bored with it after i killed three lvl 48+ mages in one fight easily.

BTW: Don't bother trying to mimic this setup...it was fixed a long time ago. The only person i ever told about it was Saguenay.

As i said in the other thread, hunters only seem overpowered because we're so hard to catch. Once you pin a hunter down, they have less firepower than any class, and are only middle of the pack defense wise. The trick is pinning them in place.

Without the evasion tree, no one would play a hunter within a month.

[UmarilsStillHere]

for a change i agree with val "sort of" hunters arnt overpowered just very annoying to kill =)

[ncvr]

for a change i agree with val "sort of" hunters arnt overpowered just very annoying to kill =)
The thread is about marksmen.

[UmarilsStillHere]

read the prior page its about hunters =q

[bigjim]

all this makes me laugh, and I to have every class almost to 50 but a Knight which doesn't appease me in the least bit.(well warlock is 40) I really don't see class imbalance to some extent because everything in this game is based on damn luck. I was playing my hunter in Alsius and at level 36 I had spell elude, and cat reflexes and evaded 5 spells in a row. I thereby killed the lvl 50 warlock.... I think something is wrong with that to be honest. I think there are aspects of the evasion tree that need to be changed, and I think strategic positioning needs to go. I don't think hunters are overpowered because their damage is so shitty. In some sense they have to be overpowered because the hunter damage is so weak, and we have very few spells to use. If NGD changes the evasion tree I expect some new spells added just for hunters that do some kind of damage, because without evasion hunters are just pathetic. If we could keep this flaming down it would be nice because making stabs at a person that you know has somewhat of a temper really doesn't help the situation or game balance. I know why I stopped playing this game for over a month now.

[fluffy_muffin]

I will get you sooner or later :D
BTW. that escape was great ;P

[bigjim]

I will get you sooner or later :D
BTW. that escape was great ;P

you wouldn't stop chasing my poor dwarf.... xD :eguitar:

[ncvr]

read the prior page its about hunters =q
Then why is the title "Marksman armor lvls(again)" ?

all this makes me laugh, and I to have every class almost to 50 but a Knight which doesn't appease me in the least bit.(well warlock is 40) I really don't see class imbalance to some extent because everything in this game is based on damn luck. I was playing my hunter in Alsius and at level 36 I had spell elude, and cat reflexes and evaded 5 spells in a row. I thereby killed the lvl 50 warlock.... I think something is wrong with that to be honest. I think there are aspects of the evasion tree that need to be changed, and I think strategic positioning needs to go. I don't think hunters are overpowered because their damage is so shitty. In some sense they have to be overpowered because the hunter damage is so weak, and we have very few spells to use. If NGD changes the evasion tree I expect some new spells added just for hunters that do some kind of damage, because without evasion hunters are just pathetic. If we could keep this flaming down it would be nice because making stabs at a person that you know has somewhat of a temper really doesn't help the situation or game balance. I know why I stopped playing this game for over a month now.
+1

Just wait until NGD's reorganising is in order :)

[UmarilsStillHere]

[QUOTE=Necrovarus]Then why is the title "Marksman armor lvls(again)" ?

someone clearly DIDNT read the prior page and see that THAT PAGE we were talking about hunters