Hunter Setups and the Update

[Plover]

If I've noticed correctly, there has been an insane number of 20+ member parties roaming the warzone the last few days, making leveling impossible for anybody [myself not included, gradded']. Also rather than roaming around as an individual people get swept up in one of the many giant parties running around. (nobody with a scroll is leveling in wz because of this it looks like, and most w/o scrolls aren't leveling for hopes of another update before they continue leveling... so I've noticed...)

First off, is this observation wrong? I just got to lvl 50 a few hours after the update , and I haven't been paying attention to what fort wars and stuff have been going on for a few weeks now.

If this observation is correct, how are hunters dealing with it? [ninjas not included] Hunters with pets thrive on 1v1 up to 1v[a few]. I went on today with my hunter + pet setup which I love, but I just got frustrated because pets can't live when fighting against giant parties.

I don't want to become a ninja because I really like pet setups.


I know a few people are going to yell "n00b hunter deal with it!" at me... or something slightly more vulgar. Resist the temptation.

Thanks!

[_dracus_]

I have the same feeling that you: Pets are good for small groups, and useless against big groups. I made my config with thoses ideas:
-Pets in fort wars are uncontrollable (they can do things but you don't know why).
-Without a pet hunters aren't the best damaging subclass ever

I choose to have few damaging spell (ensaring arrow, dual shot, tear apart). And then to have defensive spell (distraction shot, ambush) and debuffing spells (sudden strike, confuse, caltrop). Then as a hunter you are often expected to have max evasion and max scouting (and thoses two trees are good so I kept them). Which make a stupid setup with:

sb 13, tricks 19, scouting 19, evasion 19, lb 7, pet 1

[fluffy_muffin]

[...]
I don't want to become a ninja because I really like pet setups.

Lvl up stalker or camu, or just find good place to ambush and wait :P or protect lvlers.

[padreigh]

Barb gone? So sad. I will wait out this current turmoil and hope for the best.

[_dracus_]

all the extra points i had left went into tricks. dunno...im happy with my setup though. ive never worried about maxing tricks so i can have confuse...i know what it does, it sounds cool but then where's the challenge?

Maxing tricks is for Caltrop arrows (area slow down -50% speed for 20s), not especially for confuse. In tricks I have lvl 5 caltrop arrows, and lvl 3 confuse.

For the challenge I can assure you that not having a pet is some kind of challenge because it's your best attack/defense you can have in PvP.

[-Edge-]

I don't think just hunters are affected. I see alot of conjurers dropping summons, and definatly more area attacks from spells I might have seen twice in my life. I.E. Fire Rain, Thunder Strike, etc..

[Valorius]

If I've noticed correctly, there has been an insane number of 20+ member parties roaming the warzone the last few days, making leveling impossible for anybody [myself not included, gradded']. Also rather than roaming around as an individual people get swept up in one of the many giant parties running around. (nobody with a scroll is leveling in wz because of this it looks like, and most w/o scrolls aren't leveling for hopes of another update before they continue leveling... so I've noticed...)

First off, is this observation wrong? I just got to lvl 50 a few hours after the update , and I haven't been paying attention to what fort wars and stuff have been going on for a few weeks now.

If this observation is correct, how are hunters dealing with it? [ninjas not included] Hunters with pets thrive on 1v1 up to 1v[a few]. I went on today with my hunter + pet setup which I love, but I just got frustrated because pets can't live when fighting against giant parties.

I don't want to become a ninja because I really like pet setups.


I know a few people are going to yell "n00b hunter deal with it!" at me... or something slightly more vulgar. Resist the temptation.

Thanks!
Warfighting optimized hunters do not use pets. Instead they have maxed evasion. I currently have 23 discipline points- 1/2 of my total- in evasion skills.

Next you want maxed bow skill with a maxed area attack (be it projectile rain, repitition shot, or caltrop arrow). High lvl tricks is also very desirable for confusing enemy conjurors. Scouting 15 or 17 is plenty for a 'cavalry' hunter, which is the role that hunters are most well suited to in large scale battles and formations.

[_dracus_]

Yeah dirty fighting way :D

[ementh]

I've tried without pet but I always go back. I've learned to control mine and if I can't - well I can decide to stay or go away and come back later...

[Plover]

I tried out a petless hunter setup today for about 2 hours, but I wasn't liking it so I went back, and just avoided the giant groups roaming around.

Something I noticed (since before today I've never really tried rep shot) is that repetition shot does damage around the hunter in a very short range... Is Projectile Rain the same thing? Or does projectile rain do damage on and around the targeted enemy?

[Valorius]

Projectile rain is an area attack with a range of 39m (using a 30 lb) and an attack radius of 10 meters.

Rep shot is a point blank range area attack.

Try this setup:

Scouting 17 (lvl 4 ensnare arrow, mobility. Lvl 3 enemy surviellance.)
Shortbow 19 (lvl 5 rep shot, lvl 3 dual shot)
Longbow 11
Evasion 19 (lvl 5 SOTW, acrobat, spell elude, wits, mobility. Lvl 2 escapist and lvl 2 defensive tactics)
Tricks 15 (lvl 4 confuse)

That's one of my favorite setups

If you don't care about confuse, drop scouting to 15, and incease LB to 15(and add points to passive bow dmg)

[ementh]

Proj rain is range....rep shot is short...but wicked....

[Valorius]

IMO rep shot is vastly superior because knight and mage blocking skills do not affect it. It also does WAY more dmg per target than Proj. rain does.

Proj rain, quite honestly, blows. It shouldn't, but it does.

[ementh]

Yes....almost all will die when a combo of 2 terrors and 1 rep shot is thrown. Hunters have a benefit here because they can camo into the crowed and wait...

[Valorius]

Yes....almost all will die when a combo of 2 terrors and 1 rep shot is thrown. Hunters have a benefit here because they can camo into the crowed and wait...
Mod cancels it though- even mid-cast, which IMO is total BS.

One of these days i need to do a rant about MoD. It's probably the single most overpowered spell in the game. LOL...sure wish i had it. :-P

[sathilda]

Mod cancels it though- even mid-cast, which IMO is total BS.

One of these days i need to do a rant about MoD. It's probably the single most overpowered spell in the game. LOL...sure wish i had it. :-P

Join the Elite, be a Warlock :thumb: I would be happy to have acrobatics and spell elude too :p

[backe]

meh....

for once i actually agree with val....
MOD seems to have a high % chance to cancel unstoppable madness too....MUCH higher then the % listed on the skill info

[Valorius]

I would have a lot less problems with MoD if it was area 10. In practical game play, it seems to have an area of about 20. My 20/med shortbow at it's extreme range still will not let me cast spells against a MoD Lock. And let's talk about duration. Sheesh, that spell lasts foreeeeeever.

The only target that's a higher priority than a conjuror in a battle, IMO, is a MoD Lock.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I would have a lot less problems with MoD if it was area 10. In practical game play, it seems to have an area of about 20. My 20/med shortbow at it's extreme range still will not let me cast spells against a MoD Lock. And let's talk about duration. Sheesh, that spell lasts foreeeeeever.

The only target that's a higher priority than a conjuror in a battle, IMO, is a MoD Lock.
an archer complaining about mod? That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

[fluffy_muffin]

I would have a lot less problems with MoD if it was area 10.
Well it look like it really have 15 range but when you are affected then walking out of range doesn't help. IMO it stick to player and disappear when you walk much further than only 20m. Last time mod was over on me when i was 30m from caster :|

[mrclean]

meh....

for once i actually agree with val....
MOD seems to have a high % chance to cancel unstoppable madness too....MUCH higher then the % listed on the skill info

Well, some statistics would help. UM has 90% chances of resistance... That is it doesn't work 1 on 10 times (almost, we are also in a matter of luck/unluck).

Since MoD is a constant spell (60 seconds duration iirc), it's reasonable to think that after 10 seconds it worked at least 1 time, after 20 seconds it's almost sure you have been affected.

Correct me if I'm wrong :D

EDIT: some things corrected by myself :D

[Mattdoesrock]

I actually cant remeber a time where Ive been stopped by MoD with Madness.

But sometimes you just get damn well unlucky, like I got (in th arena) Terrored 4/5 times in a row, and twice in a row two of DM's Ivy's got me.

[_dracus_]

I actually cant remeber a time where Ive been stopped by MoD with Madness.

But sometimes you just get damn well unlucky, like I got (in th arena) Terrored 4/5 times in a row, and twice in a row two of DM's Ivy's got me.

Yeah got the same with SotW sometime you get hit by 3 out of 4 attacks.

[ementh]

I see someone with MOD I Sudden Strike them and switch to my range 30 lb. Kill em and no more MOD...

[_dracus_]

I see someone with MOD I Sudden Strike them and switch to my range 30 lb. Kill em and no more MOD...

That's the good thing to do, because they'll be hight priority to everyone. So yeah sudden strike is good in this situation.

[magnet]

How MoD and aura works:
- Every second, there is the area effect (dizzy for MoD) reapplied on you.

Why MoD isn't removed when you get out of range:
- Because you need to get out of range, then for the dizziness to fade out (about 4s).

Why can a Barb with Unstoppable get dizzy in MoD:
- Because every second you get a "re-roll" of dizziness, so the probability to "eventually" get dizzied (10% by roll), after 7s, is actually more than 50%....

So just kill the warlock fast, it's easy. Btw I don't think there's any reason for a Barb to complain, I played with Unstoppable and it very good. Yesterday with my Knight I killed a 'lock in MoD on 2vs1 (2 against me, a Marks attacking me at the same time), the Warlock fell down easily... (and after I killed that Marks who tried to escape -_-). If a Knight can do it with shitty hits it's even easier for a Barb, btw I see Barbs killing warlocks in MoD everyday.

Is MoD overpowered:
- No, the effect isn't overpowered, but the duration is certainly. There is no justification right now for MoD to last this long. Last year there were fewer players of each class, and we had wars with Warlocks and no need for a coordination. Right now MoD is too easy and requires too few sacrifices. Three Warlocks can keep it running permanently very easily (unless I MindSquash it, I love it so much :p). Anyway my proposal isn't to change the range or effect, just to reduce duration to 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s (instead of 60s for each level) and reduce the mana cost accordingly. However even with the current duration, MoD is nowhere near as overpowered as Confuse. Let's not forget MoD is a lv 19 spell of a sucky discipline (and every Warlock could live with Sk/Vamp lv 4) whereas Confuse is lv 15 of a sucky discipline :p.

[ementh]

I don't see a problem with MOD either...it is irritating at times - but so are other skills from all other classes....

[backe]

ah i see...

thanks for the clarification magnet

[_dracus_]

Let's not forget MoD is a lv 19 spell of a sucky discipline (and every Warlock could live with Sk/Vamp lv 4) whereas Confuse is lv 15 of a sucky discipline :p.

Tricks a sucky discipline ? who are you trying to fool ?

[fluffy_muffin]

Tricks a sucky discipline ? who are you trying to fool ?
<troll mode>
No one. It is only hate, bitterness and prejudice. And it has nothing to do with his nationality, even if he was trying to convince us to this before :fingers:
</troll mode>

[magnet]

Tricks a sucky discipline ? who are you trying to fool ?
<troll mode>
No one. It is only hate, bitterness and prejudice. And it has nothing to do with his nationality, even if he was trying to convince us to this before
</troll mode>
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You guys are so easy :superpusso:

[Valorius]

Well it look like it really have 15 range but when you are affected then walking out of range doesn't help. IMO it stick to player and disappear when you walk much further than only 20m. Last time mod was over on me when i was 30m from caster :|
Yeah, the area it affects is frigging GIGANTIC.

[Valorius]

How MoD and aura works:
- Every second, there is the area effect (dizzy for MoD) reapplied on you.

Why MoD isn't removed when you get out of range:
- Because you need to get out of range, then for the dizziness to fade out (about 4s).

Why can a Barb with Unstoppable get dizzy in MoD:
- Because every second you get a "re-roll" of dizziness, so the probability to "eventually" get dizzied (10% by roll), after 7s, is actually more than 50%....

So just kill the warlock fast, it's easy. Btw I don't think there's any reason for a Barb to complain, I played with Unstoppable and it very good. Yesterday with my Knight I killed a 'lock in MoD on 2vs1 (2 against me, a Marks attacking me at the same time), the Warlock fell down easily... (and after I killed that Marks who tried to escape -_-). If a Knight can do it with shitty hits it's even easier for a Barb, btw I see Barbs killing warlocks in MoD everyday.

Is MoD overpowered:
- No, the effect isn't overpowered, but the duration is certainly. There is no justification right now for MoD to last this long. Last year there were fewer players of each class, and we had wars with Warlocks and no need for a coordination. Right now MoD is too easy and requires too few sacrifices. Three Warlocks can keep it running permanently very easily (unless I MindSquash it, I love it so much :p). Anyway my proposal isn't to change the range or effect, just to reduce duration to 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s (instead of 60s for each level) and reduce the mana cost accordingly. However even with the current duration, MoD is nowhere near as overpowered as Confuse. Let's not forget MoD is a lv 19 spell of a sucky discipline (and every Warlock could live with Sk/Vamp lv 4) whereas Confuse is lv 15 of a sucky discipline :p.
I agree with the duration of MoD being too long, but confuse is nowhere near as good a spell. It affects 1 person vs all people in a 20m radius. It lasts a max of 40 seconds(at lvl 19/5) vs 60 seconds for MoD. With confuse you can cast offensive spells, with MoD you can cast nothing.

IMO MoD is a couple orders of magnitude more potent.

[magnet]

I agree with the duration of MoD being too long, but confuse is nowhere near as good a spell. It affects 1 person vs all people in a 20m radius. It lasts a max of 40 seconds(at lvl 19/5) vs 60 seconds for MoD. With confuse you can cast offensive spells, with MoD you can cast nothing.

IMO MoD is a couple orders of magnitude more potent.

You kill the Warlock and MoD is over. A group can get this done in no time. As a matter of fact, even one solo Marks, Barb, Hunter with Pet, Knight, Warju or other Warlock can do that very fast. Whereas Confuse will go on whether you kill the Archer who cast it or not, that is if he doesn't SotW+camou/run.

Just like with MoD, I agree on the fact that Confuse is a good spell; but the duration is out of proportion. Both durations should be reduced, for Confuse from what I see it has good chances of being reduced of 10s / level, which is still long but at least not blatantly overpowered. I hope the same for Darkness which is also too powerful (but the cooldown, casting time and mana cost should be aligned on the new Confuse).

[Valorius]

I win 1 on 1s when confused all the time...because you still have full 100% offensive capability. The trick is to defensively buff as soon as you see the enemy before they close into range.

It is not even remotely comparable to MoD. MoD is 100% total dizzy, and it's in a gigantic area, with 50% more duration. If the duration of confuse was reduced by 10 secs/lvl, i wouldn't even use it. It would be just one more useless skill, to go along with the many others.

In a 1 vs 1 a hunter's pet will be dead in under 5 seconds vs a smart warlock.

[magnet]

I win 1 on 1s when confused all the time...because you still have full 100% offensive capability. The trick is to defensively buff as soon as you see the enemy before they close into range.

It is not even remotely comparable to MoD. MoD is 100% total dizzy, and it's in a gigantic area, with 50% more duration. If the duration of confuse was reduced by 10 secs/lvl, i wouldn't even use it. It would be just one more useless skill, to go along with the many others.

In a 1 vs 1 a hunter's pet will be dead in under 5 seconds vs a smart warlock.

1) Not all classes have buffs which make them evade 55% of skills thrown at them (that's dodge+spell eludes) + damage resistance + armor buff.

2) MoD is a lv 19 spell of a sub-class tree, Confuse is a lv 15 spell of a general class tree... See why it shouldn't be as powerful?

3) I have good hopes Confuse will be balanced.

[sathilda]

I see someone with MOD I Sudden Strike them and switch to my range 30 lb. Kill em and no more MOD...

Yup, MoD is a please target me skill, on the other hand the combo freeze + MoD = death of almost all ranged people (hunters have a still a chance if they're buffed with spells elude they can run away ^^).

Hard to balance, even if i like Magnet's idea to make the lvl 1 duration shorter and increase with level.

[fluffy_muffin]

1) evade 55% of skills thrown at them armor buff.

Ahahahahaha. Good joke. Now move your ass to Amun and do some tests, not on arena and not with lvl1 spells and not once. After that do some stats.

3) I have good hopes Confuse will be balanced.
And i have hope that warlock will not be able to use silence, beetle swarm. I hope that all ranged summons will be deleted. That hunter will have dizzy spell. And that you will stop being prejudiced.

[DkySven]

I hope that all ranged summons will be deleted.
Me too, a Zarkit might have low health but with a conjurer healing him it's much much harder to kill than a pet.

[ncvr]

Darkness the Zarkit or Confuse the conjuror. If you have neither of these,
a) Stop being a warjuror and ask your allies for help.
b) Kill the Zarkit in one hit.
c) Maybe you're not supposed to have an easy time against warjurors.

[DkySven]

I have a spell(taunt) with the sole purpose of making pets and summons easier to kill and still the zarkits I attack(and they are mostle below level 50) survive longer than a level 51 orc grunt and longer than me, a knight.

[Valorius]

1) Not all classes have buffs which make them evade 55% of skills thrown at them (that's dodge+spell eludes) + damage resistance + armor buff.
Conjs Steel Skin and shield
Warlocks Shield(and in fact MoD)
Knights AOE
Barbs Caution
Archers Already covered.

2) MoD is a lv 19 spell of a sub-class tree, Confuse is a lv 15 spell of a general class tree... See why it shouldn't be as powerful?
It's not as powerful.

3) I have good hopes Confuse will be balanced.
I have good hopes MoD will be balanced. :)

Yup, MoD is a please target me skill, on the other hand the combo freeze + MoD = death of almost all ranged people (hunters have a still a chance if they're buffed with spells elude they can run away ^^).

Hard to balance, even if i like Magnet's idea to make the lvl 1 duration shorter and increase with level.
The area of effect is supposed to be 10 isn't it? It's not. It's at least double that size.
They should at least reduce the duration. 60 seconds is waaaaaaaaaaay too long for that powerful of a spell. 15m for 40 seconds is a lot more reasonable.

I am a HUGE fan of MoD, anyone that plays in syrtis knows that as soon as we're at a fort door i always call out for a Lock to cast MoD and stand near the gate so the enemy players cant pop in and out casting a few spells and retreating inside. MoD kicks ass, as it should.

But it kicks too much ass.

[Valorius]

Me too, a Zarkit might have low health but with a conjurer healing him it's much much harder to kill than a pet.
Yep. A conj in steel skin with a summons can really ruin your day. For a hunter, confuse merely levels the playing field.

Confusing a steel skin conj so you can kill his zarkit is a solid tactic.


b) Kill the Zarkit in one hit.
The only attack a hunter has that will kill a zarkit in one hit is....none. (rep shot 5 comes closest)

[Static_Fang]

I mostly use MoD defencivly. Area 15 Dizzy + Wind Wall = A good bunch of normal range attacks blocked (cept recharged arrows).
Also good so Barbs dont use things like SC, LS or Typhoon.

Although i do use it for a charge with the group (thats both def and ofen use of MoD at once ^^)

[ncvr]

That was for barbs. Hunters can confuse conjurors to prevent them from healing the pet.

Also, I think you overestimate a Zarkit's health. I once killed a challenging zarkit in 2 spells, Meteor and Stalagmite, both of which aren't as effective as Lightning (when used on pets and summons).

[fluffy_muffin]

That was for barbs. Hunters can confuse conjurors to prevent them from healing the pet.

Or cast distracting shot on conj :P and ambush zarkit. But if conj is good he is prepared for such action. I was fighting with many warjujors and actually i like it. Even if zarkit is hiting me for 270 and conj for 230 from staff :P Now imagine silence and beetle swarm lvl 3-5 on you :P + staff mastery + zarkit + mana comunion + karma miror :} Fight and pray for evade :P

[Valorius]

That was for barbs. Hunters can confuse conjurors to prevent them from healing the pet.

Also, I think you overestimate a Zarkit's health. I once killed a challenging zarkit in 2 spells, Meteor and Stalagmite, both of which aren't as effective as Lightning (when used on pets and summons).
Trust me, if i could kill a Zarkit in one hit, i'd say so. Rep shot is the closest i can come, which is about 1400dmg. I think a zarkit has 1500hp.

[ncvr]

Well, they definately have less hp than a Cyclops Warrior (1700 hp).

Although I can kill those in 2 spells too :D

[ementh]

My approach to fighting is complete and utter...WTF just happend....

The configuration I use works quite effectively in forts and hunting. I likeeee..now if wudy would get back from vacation so I could lvl to 50...

[DemonMonger]

If I've noticed correctly, there has been an insane number of 20+ member parties roaming the warzone the last few days, making leveling impossible for anybody [myself not included, gradded']. Also rather than roaming around as an individual people get swept up in one of the many giant parties running around. (nobody with a scroll is leveling in wz because of this it looks like, and most w/o scrolls aren't leveling for hopes of another update before they continue leveling... so I've noticed...)

First off, is this observation wrong? I just got to lvl 50 a few hours after the update , and I haven't been paying attention to what fort wars and stuff have been going on for a few weeks now.

If this observation is correct, how are hunters dealing with it? [ninjas not included] Hunters with pets thrive on 1v1 up to 1v[a few]. I went on today with my hunter + pet setup which I love, but I just got frustrated because pets can't live when fighting against giant parties.

I don't want to become a ninja because I really like pet setups.


I know a few people are going to yell "n00b hunter deal with it!" at me... or something slightly more vulgar. Resist the temptation.

Thanks!

pets are really not the best option......

1) you have to wait for pet to arrive at the enemy before it attacks...
2) pet dies rather quickly....
a. there have been times i stand and kill a lvl 50 hunters pet then him, since he lacks firepower without it.. he loses 50% damage ability....

pets can be great once...
1) they get skills
2) the armor protection works
3) the life bonus works....
4) what ever happened to the goblin shamans :bangin:

[makarios68]

The configuration I use works quite effectively in forts and hunting.

Which of your 50 configs are you refering to dude?.. :superpusso:

[fluffy_muffin]

Which of your 50 configs are you refering to dude?.. :superpusso:
To Sherman/Abrams config :P

[Valorius]

Are you using the setup we discussed Comp?

[ementh]

No val...back to pets. It's like a part of me and I've learned to fight fairly well with them even given their flaws :D

[misaccc]

Doesent mod have a bugged range?like its longer or shorter on the different parts?

[BlooD]

pets can be great once...
3) the life bonus works....


It works!

The thing bugged is just the +5 life signal, it gives a 5% of his life really.

[ementh]

Not 100% about the life; however, the armor protection works.

[BlooD]

Not 100% about the life; however, the armor protection works.

I was not 100% sure about the armor but i am sure about the life, someone tested it and slamar tested it too and it worked, the only problem its the mark over the pet.

[Valorius]

The armor protection is very minimal though, isn't it? +25 armor at max lvl?

+25 is crap.

[fluffy_muffin]

The armor protection is very minimal though, isn't it? +25 armor at max lvl?

No it is 50% on lvl 5. There are 3 problems 1) where i find points for it :P 2)it is armor bonus so you have to find pet with good armor 3)dmg reduction is noticable on lvl4-5,

[ementh]

No it is 50% on lvl 5. There are 3 problems 1) where i find points for it :P 2)it is armor bonus so you have to find pet with good armor 3)dmg reduction is noticable on lvl4-5,

Yes, the protection armor passive works GREAT - but then again you gotta have points for it......

[fluffy_muffin]

Yes, the protection armor passive works GREAT - but then again you gotta have points for it......
My pet killed me with lvl4 and skin of the beast :D i couldn't kill f* orc with this passive and sob :D