Regarding Marksmen and SotW.

[Inkster]

Ok, theres a lot of threads out there concerning SOTW.

Where it has become too overpowered is with marksmen.
They can cast SOTW and after this cast death sentence upon you, allowing them to hit you base shot only for 600-800+ damage while they are almost impossible to hit.

I hope ngd can see how ridiculous this is.

[CumeriTarenes]

hunter can do something similar:

sotw and bestial wrath.

Ink:

There are several things you can do to protect yourself:

a) energy barrier
b) wind wall
c) protection dome (when other enemies are around, since it only helps to resist spells)
d) drain health from a mob
e) try to be close at the marksman, range<4 to agressor and damage boost is not active
f) hide behind a tree until sotw is over (I know the last 2 are hard to do because of sotw speed bonus and marksman mobility and escapist.



I for mysself used sotw on lvl 5 a few days. And I had some 1v1 were sotw + DS gave me a very good chance to win the fight. However, it was not my playing style so I changed back to sotw lvl 1 as a better kind of low profile.

but yeah, sotw+DS is not very balanced I think because both spells have a too long duration.

[_dracus_]

Ok, theres a lot of threads out there concerning SOTW.

Where it has become too overpowered is with marksmen.
They can cast SOTW and after this cast death sentence upon you, allowing them to hit you base shot only for 600-800+ damage while they are almost impossible to hit.

I hope ngd can see how ridiculous this is.

Really Inkster, I don't know where can you find such ideas. It never happens that a marksman rush a group with SotW, cast confuse on a mage and finish him (Ahem E X Z U R Y).

[Comp]

Agree'd NGD needs to look at how sotw is used and make a modification. There's absolutely no need to be able to attack while you are in sotw. If you want to use it for escape - then super...but attacking in it isn't necessary given the other evasion capabilities archers have.

[mrclean]

I think without the possibility to attack while in SotW, marksmen will have no chances in pvp against warriors. Still hunters can cast camo, and this is even worst than having a death sentence casted... Personally (knight speaking since everyone knows I don't use so much my marks) I think SotW must remain as it is, what we need is a contrary spell to it (like protector for knights indeed, even if it's not so powerful).

[magnet]

I think without the possibility to attack while in SotW, marksmen will have no chances in pvp against warriors. Still hunters can cast camo, and this is even worst than having a death sentence casted... Personally (knight speaking since everyone knows I don't use so much my marks) I think SotW must remain as it is, what we need is a contrary spell to it (like protector for knights indeed, even if it's not so powerful).

Who cares about PvP against Warriors in a RvR game? Of course they have "chances in PvP" since it completely breaks the balance and makes them nearly invulnerable for 20s while they force either their enemy to take range (to take cover) or to take hits while doing nothing for 20s... Non sense.

[mrclean]

It's true this is a RvR game, I expected such kind of answer. But one of the things I really love of regnum is that you are not forced to play in just a way. Indeed, arenas would have no sense at all if NGD didn't think about pvps.
Lately I had really a lot of fun in doing some "team versus team" fights, cause you really see how collaboration improves the fight and how a mistake can ruin all (in huge fort wars you can speak on many little errors or a main role of allies if you play bad, I don't know if I'm selfexplaining well sorry), and it's awesome to speak to other players from different realms and organize them (the game doesn't allow it :( IRC is a nice way). Losing interest in doing pvps (that should be almost the main role of an hunter as it is designed at the moment) would be even worst than not having a class a bit advantaged in fort wars. And so far few hunters still try to have a pvp, since almost everyone if the situation becomes hard, prefer to flee away...
But this is just my thought, afterall I know it's an RvR game :p

[magnet]

The arena is for testing skill and learning fight basics... It's actually bad for PvPs (too small, skills not working).
It would still be possible to have PvPs if SotW didn't allow to attack. Instead of just pushing the magic button it would actually require some skill for a change. And if warriors are advantages against Marks, what's the big deal? Even without SotW and Evasion a Marks will destroy any Mage or Hunter (from head on). Which currently is a big problem. What happen with SotW?:
- some hunter come out of camou, confuses a Conjurer, use Dirty Fighting, when people start focusing on him he casts SotW, the lone Conju stands no chance even running around a tree (because hits are instant and SotW gives speed bonus): there can be 5 allies with him, if no other is a Conju, the Conju will die and the Hunter cannot be stopped. This is what I call serious imbalance
- Marskmen scenario (very frequent too): Marksman is surrounded, he casts SotW, chooses a weak target, DS him (and sometimes Confuses him), and kill him in 3-4 hits with Recharged, nothing to be done (I know, I tried it with my Marks).

SotW should be = unable to attack; Casting spell cast disables it.

[CumeriTarenes]

SotW should be = unable to attack; Casting spell cast disables it.

nah, then I cannot cast escapist or mobility when I am running away with sotw?

That would make sotw too useless as a lvl 19 spell. Cannot cast any spell on enemies and decrease duration back to 14 sec on lvl 5 and it will solve many problems...and sotw will still be a spell very worth of using, but not imbalanced.

[mrclean]

I don't think arena is a test place, or at least not only a test place: there's (or there was) a chart of "gladiators"... This means to me that is a place where you have to fight :)

Still the fact that spells doesn't work properly I don't think is a nice justification :p

What you said after is why I said that a spell actually in contrast with SotW is needed for every other class, and I completely agree with you.

EDIT: apart from the modifications :D

[magnet]

nah, then I cannot cast escapist or mobility when I am running away with sotw?

That would make sotw too useless as a lvl 19 spell. Cannot cast any spell on enemies and decrease duration back to 14 sec on lvl 5 and it will solve many problems...and sotw will still be a spell very worth of using, but not imbalanced.

No, you would cast them before casting SotW. Just like with Camou or Protector. That would actually require some tactic for a change =).

[Anpu]

that would force order of casting
seriously, i can hit and hit and hit conju while he is under steel skin, and if he even has zarkit, what a joy. There is nothing wrong, only wrong thing is that you count a lot on your allies to protect you of "mad" archer. But that was your choice so dont whine :)

[Valour]

No, you would cast them before casting SotW. Just like with Camou or Protector. That would actually require some tactic for a change =).

Yeah, I had two guys sotw/camo on me today on the hunter.

Also sotw/confuse is really cheap...

[BlooD]

Also sotw/confuse is REALLY cheap...

Nothing compared with camou+confuse.

You can even test who has DI and who not.

The cheap spell is confuse not the combos XD.

[Valour]

Hmm, but combos make it possible to do extremely easily.

Even if confuse was nerfed to 0 range like some people say, hunters and marksman in sotw could still do it with ease.

[BlooD]

Hmm, but combos make it possible to do extremely easily.

Even if confuse was nerfed to 0 range like some people say, hunters and marksman in sotw could still do it with ease.

Confuse range 0? Thats not a nerf, thats a marksman confusing you from range 42.

The cheap thing about confuse is the duration, when you can make a pj defensless with 1 skill its simply logic to make that spell has few duration. Confuse is 40 secs in lvl 5.

Lot of times i see two leveling, 1 of them is conjurer. You go out of camou with full mana, confuse the conjurer and you are in a 1vs1 with the other one. If the duration was less then there is no problem, if you dont kill the other one fast you are doomed. With the duration of the current confuse i can kill a warlock with only normal attacks and pet and the conjurer is still confused.

Its just so cheap.

[Inkster]

marksmen will have no chances in pvp against warriors.

So let me get this right, a ranged class character, and a pretty poky one at that would have no change against a melee class?

hmm i think you have completely missed the point.

Let me put it another way, imagine im a marks jogging merrily along. I see a warrior 'ooo scary'

So i cast in this order

1. SOTW.
2. DS on the warrior

I am now untouchable but for a good few seconds i can base attack and kill pretty much everything.

[Vroek]

I think SofW should be 100% evasion but remove all buffs from the archer.
I.e. a fully buffed archer would have to use other options first and think twice about simply casting SofW because its the easiest way.
It would still be awesome spell, since it would keep you safe quickly and still allow support conjurers to give you the heals and mana you need to keep going.

It should definitely not be possible to use camo under SofW simple because it ruin risk v reward, it enables hunters to attack a weak player among alot of strong players, only to disappear into thin air after mission is accomplished.

[Mage_pegusas]

It should definitely not be possible to use camo under SofW simple because it ruin risk v reward, it enables hunters to attack a weak player among alot of strong players, only to disappear into thin air after mission is accomplished.

Hunters don't have great attacks, if they get in trouble, this is the way to escape..
Its a little cheap but if thats what you have to do... then so be it.

[Valorius]

Ok, theres a lot of threads out there concerning SOTW.

Where it has become too overpowered is with marksmen.
They can cast SOTW and after this cast death sentence upon you, allowing them to hit you base shot only for 600-800+ damage while they are almost impossible to hit.

I hope ngd can see how ridiculous this is.
I agree that MARKSMEN are overpowered 10 ways to sunday, it's not just SoTW.

It's the entire evasion tree. Marksmen need to be divorced from that tree, that's all there is to it.

[Mage_pegusas]

I think without the possibility to attack while in SotW, marksmen will have no chances in pvp against warriors


lol... they have a chance.. maybe in their huge dmg hits.. or already high evasion..crazy defence...control spells such as ambush... or perhaps that spell that will do 600dmg regardless of defence....yep, sounds like marks have it hard...
Epic. Quote.
:p

[Valorius]

Who cares about PvP against Warriors in a RvR game? Of course they have "chances in PvP" since it completely breaks the balance and makes them nearly invulnerable for 20s while they force either their enemy to take range (to take cover) or to take hits while doing nothing for 20s... Non sense.
It would be untrue to say that "you can do nothing for 20s."

While an enemy is under SoTW it is a great time to cast all your defensive spells/buffs. Sometimes i even sit the hell down and recharge mana for the 20 seconds. And of course if you do keep firing, some shots DO get through. I can beat hunters using SOTW at least half the time- even when they have a pet, but marksmen with SOTW and DS, forget it.

The arena is for testing skill and learning fight basics... It's actually bad for PvPs (too small, skills not working).
It would still be possible to have PvPs if SotW didn't allow to attack. Instead of just pushing the magic button it would actually require some skill for a change.
If there is any spell in the game that's a magic button spell, it's the warrior skill SOUTH CROSS.

Talk about an 'overpowered spell' that you can cast EVERY SIX SECONDS!

Yeah, I had two guys sotw/camo on me today on the hunter.

Also sotw/confuse is really cheap...
So is mana burn and steel skin really cheap.
And healing yourself when i have you almost dead really cheap.
SC is the "cheapest" spell of all.
Or MoD and anything is really cheap.

Etc, etc.

I can understand conj's hating confuse/SOTW, it's one of the few ways to handle a good conjuror roughly.

You know what's cheap? Having 5 more PP than every other class. That's cheap. ;)

Hey, why not just remove all the lvl 19 spells? Lots of them are so "cheap and overpowered." (sarcasm)

Nothing compared with camou+confuse.

You can even test who has DI and who not.

The cheap spell is confuse not the combos XD.
So confuse is cheap, but darkness isn't?

Or beetle swarm isn't? MoD isn't cheap?

Why not just remove all confuse/dizzy spells then?

And sure you can confuse a conj to attack someone else, but if the conj has offensive spells, you just handed yourself a defeat. The proper defense to confuse for a conj, besides good tactics and team play, is to build some offense into your character. Confuse doesn't have much effect on a good balanced build conjuror, let alone a full out warjuror.

BTW: Get a lock to cast MoD and then SK your pet (at the appropriate time), and you're not beating a lock with "regular attacks and just pet." IMO first spell MoD is the hardest(ie, cheapest) pvp opening move in Regnum because it trumps virtually everything. It will even stop rep shot(and other 3 sec cast spells) in mid-cast.

Confuse at least doesn't interrupt casting, and has 50% less duration than MoD. And it's not area. And you can still cast offensive spells...

SOTW is really the best defense vs MoD. And so is confuse. And you guys want to take these spells away?

[misaccc]

SC aint cheap if its used once maximum two times in a fight...sotw is cheap any way you use it:D

[Vroek]

Hunters don't have great attacks, if they get in trouble, this is the way to escape..
Its a little cheap but if thats what you have to do... then so be it.

They are only 2nd fastest class in the game not counting spells like escapist/sofw.
If you still cant handle the heat, none is to blame except your self since you also have the opportunity to scout the area.

Barbarians are slightly faster but ambush, stun even stunning fist or simply running will allow you to hide in plain sight.
Casting confuse on him disable his speed and possibility to catch you or buff his allies.
I guess two barbs would mean trouble, but hey this what all none hunters face ever single time.
No risk no reward... tbh with the current rules i don’t think a hunter should be able to hurt a fly, and that is not the case they can beat up every single class!
They can hunt anyone down, killing them in the lamest possible way and rarely have to face the consequences. It just not right!

[BlooD]

So confuse is cheap, but darkness isn't?

Or beetle swarm isn't? MoD isn't cheap?

Why not just remove all confuse/dizzy spells then?

And sure you can confuse a conj to attack someone else, but if the conj has offensive spells, you just handed yourself a defeat. The proper defense to confuse for a conj, besides good tactics and team play, is to build some offense into your character.

BTW: Get a lock to cast MoD and then SK your pet (at the appropriate time), and you're not beating a lock with "regular attacks and just pet."

Ah of course, you can use bettle swarm to avoid my attack 5 secs. If i dont evade/resist it.

How many skills more you can use? Ah yeah only damage spells.

Seriously valorius go play wow and shut up. We all know that tactics.

40 secs its just too much, and yeah for darkness too.

[Valorius]

SC aint cheap if its used once maximum two times in a fight...sotw is cheap any way you use it:D
Umm, you can cast SC every six seconds. There are barbs that do nothing BUT cast SC again and again.

SC is as cheap a spell as exists in the game, mostly because of the cooldown. With a 30-40 second cooldown, it would be a lot more reasonable of a skill.

They are only 2nd fastest class in the game not counting spells like escapist/sofw.
If you still cant handle the heat, none is to blame except your self since you also have the opportunity to scout the area.

Barbarians are slightly faster but ambush, stun even stunning fist or simply running will allow you to hide in plain sight.
Casting confuse on him disable his speed and possibility to catch you or buff his allies.
I guess two barbs would mean trouble, but hey this what all none hunters face ever single time.
No risk no reward... tbh with the current rules i don’t think a hunter should be able to hurt a fly, and that is not the case they can beat up every single class!
They can hunt anyone down, killing them in the lamest possible way and rarely have to face the consequences. It just not right!
That IS what hunters do, isn't it?

Ever been hunting? How much chance does the animal have? ;)

[Valour]

So is mana burn and steel skin really cheap.
And healing yourself when i have you almost dead really cheap.
SC is the "cheapest" spell of all.
Or MoD and anything is really cheap.

Etc, etc.

I can understand conj's hating confuse/SOTW, it's one of the few ways to handle a good conjuror roughly.

You know what's cheap? Having 5 more PP than every other class. That's cheap. ;)

Hey, why not just remove all the lvl 19 spells? Lots of them are so "cheap and overpowered." (sarcasm)


I was on a lvl 50 hunter... Thus why I said "On the hunter"... :D

Want to know why he have more power points?

We don't have effective base attack ;)

[Valorius]

Ah of course, you can use bettle swarm to avoid my attack 5 secs. If i dont evade/resist it.
And the conj (or whoever) can just evade the confuse. My confuse gets evaded all the time.

How many skills more you can use? Ah yeah only damage spells.
As opposed to beetle swarm, which lets you use nothing- you can't even perform base attacks. Nothing.

Seriously valorius go play wow and shut up. We all know that tactics.
Well that was mature princess. Yet again, another personal attack.

40 secs its just too much, and yeah for darkness too.
Darkness is much worse because you can't even be healed during it. If you wan't to make confuse a simple 15 second full dizzy spell at lvl 5, i'd be PERFECTLY fine with that.


Want to know why he have more power points?

We don't have effective base attack ;)
You don't? Not with lvl 19 staff mastery doing 300dmg per basic attack? Sorry, but Conj's can have a devastating base attack if they set their char up for one.

Last night i had some Ignis marksman in a group battle confuse me RIGHT off the get-go like 8 times (8 fights) in a row. We won about half, lost about half. I don't think i resisted a single one of his confuses. As a petless hunter, confuse has as big an impact on my class as any other. If i can live with it, i don't see why everyone else can't.

I fought heartbreaker yesterday and confused him right off the bat, and he still beat me in a very close fight. I had a couple spells miss, and his cyclops got a few crits. I'm telling you guys, for petless hunters confuse is an extremely important skill, and so is SoTW. If i didn't have SoTW/Confuse, i'd be forced to go with a pet. The Petless hunter as a subclass would die IMO.

[Valour]

You don't? Not with lvl 19 staff mastery doing 300dmg per basic attack? Sorry, but Conj's can have a devastating base attack if they set their char up for one.

Haha like you'd see me with that...

Whereas I see you in sotw base hitting 300's all the time on me ;)

[Mage_pegusas]

They are only 2nd fastest class in the game not counting spells like escapist/sofw.
If you still cant handle the heat, none is to blame except your self since you also have the opportunity to scout the area.

Barbarians are slightly faster but ambush, stun even stunning fist or simply running will allow you to hide in plain sight.
Casting confuse on him disable his speed and possibility to catch you or buff his allies.
I guess two barbs would mean trouble, but hey this what all none hunters face ever single time.
No risk no reward... tbh with the current rules i don’t think a hunter should be able to hurt a fly, and that is not the case they can beat up every single class!
They can hunt anyone down, killing them in the lamest possible way and rarely have to face the consequences. It just not right!

I don't personally do this with my hunter, when i use SOTW, its in several vs me, otherwise i think its not needed, i dont bother fighting knights, they take too long to kill with a hunter (with all those blocks + 4k hp..). Mages w/o devotion = asking to be killed. My hunter dosen't have confuse, because i know how it feels :(
But for some people, this is the only way to escape if they screw up. Thats all i was stating :p

[UmarilsStillHere]

But for some people, this is the only way to escape if they screw up. Thats all i was stating :p
dont screw up then =q

if any other class dose then its time for a trip to the save

[Valour]

Yes use sotw when zerged or against someone you know will maybe confuse you/sotw ect... Or for a less reliable longer low profile

[Mage_pegusas]

Hunters don't like going to save.. not their own anyways lol
and IM JUST STATING lol
I ofc don't screw up when on my hunter, cos i'm awesome (?)
http://www.driveinpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg

[Valorius]

Haha like you'd see me with that...(staff mastery)
You can of course build your character how you want- but the fact remains that you can build a very powerful base attack if that's what you covet. ;)

I wouldn't knock it either. Of all the conj's i've faced to date, no one Conj. ever beat me 5x in a row like Axe did with his maxed out staff mastery.

Whereas I see you in sotw base hitting 300's all the time on me ;)
I use dirty fighting, cutting my range to 12.5 meters (i also had max passive dex and a xymerald lvl 50 SB), and as you know, i take HUGE risks to go after conjurors. ;)

[UmarilsStillHere]

gently shoves marksmen back into the convo, at the mo we'r just rambling about hunters and sotw

[Vroek]

I think they testing how much other classes can take, think of ca$h they can earn by making everyone level up a marksman!

[BlooD]

And the conj (or whoever) can just evade the confuse. My confuse gets evaded all the time.


I always forget the awesome +evade buffs the conjurers have. Or you are comparing the evades of archers and the mage ones?

As opposed to beetle swarm, which lets you use nothing- you can't even perform base attacks. Nothing.


As opposed to confuse bettle swarm is 5 secs in lvl 1 and 9 secs in lvl 5. And as opposed to confuse lets you cast any spell on you or your allies. You can cast sow, camou, heals on you or your allies. Any buff or any ally spell. I think thats more than nothing.

Well that was mature princess. Yet again, another personal attack.


Hey its not my fault if you need to shut up princess.

Darkness is much worse because you can't even be healed during it. If you wan't to make confuse a simple 15 second full dizzy spell at lvl 5, i'd be PERFECTLY fine with that.

Darkness is much worse if you are relying in a near conjurer, but oh, the near conjurer cant do nothing if he is confused. With darkness you can cast debuffs on enemies too. With confuse you cant.

You don't? Not with lvl 19 staff mastery doing 300dmg per basic attack? Sorry, but Conj's can have a devastating base attack if they set their char up for one.


Oh great, so to avoid confuse i need staff mastery lvl 19, 12 points in staff magnifications and them all casted every 180 secs because maybe a hunter will appear and will cast on me a single spell.

Great logic isnt it.?

[Valorius]

I always forget the awesome +evade buffs the conjurers have. Or you are comparing the evades of archers and the mage ones?
Conjs have super high int, so they resist a ton of spells. Yes. And in battles with blocking knights around, very few archers attacks get through anyway.

As opposed to confuse bettle swarm is 5 secs in lvl 1 and 9 secs in lvl 5. And as opposed to confuse lets you cast any spell on you or your allies. You can cast sow, camou, heals on you or your allies. Any buff or any ally spell. I think thats more than nothing.
With Beetle swarm it's 9 seconds of no attacks, nothing. Not even base attacks. That's about 3 full of piggy-back attack cycles.

Confuse is 40 seconds, but you get to attack with 100% effectiveness the whole time. THAT is why the duration is so long- because you lose NOTHING from your offense(as long as it's a damaging power)

Hey its not my fault need to shut up princess.
It is your fault that you cannot refrain from personal attacks, princess.

Darkness is much worse if you are relying in a near conjurer, but oh, the near conjurer cant do nothing if he is confused. With darkness you can cast debuffs on enemies too. With confuse you cant.
All things considered, i'd much rather be able to be healed. But both are very potent spells....of course, both are supposed to be very potent spells. At any rate, both pale in comparison to MoD. I would trade any spell i have to add MoD. ;)

Oh great, so to avoid confuse i need staff mastery lvl 19, 12 points in staff magnifications and them all casted every 180 secs because maybe a hunter will appear and will cast on me a single spell.

Great logic isnt it.?
Actually, no, you don't have to have all that to deal with confuse. I listed that because Valour commented that Conj's have a crap base attack compared to a hunter. I merely pointed out that it's by choice. A conj CAN match the base attack of a hunter, and in fact can exceed it because he can have fast attack 300dmg base whereas a hunter needs a med/20bow(or lvl 50 25/med xym bow) and dirty fighting to get the same base bmg.

Simple pre-buffing and a few offensive spells in your repitiore with a decent base attack is enough to give you a fighting chance against confusion in battles. If you're serious about beating up on confuse archers, yes, lvl 19 staff mastery is probably the way to go.

I don't think confuse is overpowered because of the other spells out there that are every bit as powerful to deal with. Confuse is really the only good pre-emption to MoD or Darkness, for instance. It is a very neccesary skill.

ON TOPIC: MArksmen should be divorced from the evasion tree.

[BlooD]

Conjs have super high int, so they resist a ton of spells. Yes. And in battles with blocking knights around, very few archers attacks get through anyway.


Mages dont resists tons of spells with high int trust me, maybe with protection dome. But the int alone does nothing.

With Beetle swarm it's 9 seconds of no attacks, nothing. Not even base attacks. That's about 3 full of piggy-back attack cycles.
Confuse is 40 seconds, but you get to attack with 100% effectiveness the whole time. THAT is why the duration is so long- because you lose NOTHING from your offense(as long as it's a damaging power)


OMG · full rounds of piggy back attacks!!! Thats too much.

Any class lost damage power under confuse, warlock lose all his debuffs, barbs lose all his buffs which is what makes them hit hard, warjurers lose his best weapon his healings. And evasion archers like you tend to run when i confuse them. I wonder why because its not like losing 3 full rounds of piggy back attacks. Thats really too much.

It is your fault that you cannot refrain from personal attacks, princess.


Whatever you want, but you are more cute with your mouth closed.

All things considered, i'd much rather be able to be healed. But both are very potent spells....of course, both are supposed to be very potent spells. At any rate, both pale in comparison to MoD. I would trade any spell i have to add MoD. ;)


Oh yeah your last argument for all. The MoD. I guess the 900 times people said its too much and they will change it means nothing for you.

And of course both have to be very potent spells, but they last too long. I never needed darkness in more than lvl 1 and with lvl 4 confuse i can dance around the conjurer if i want.

Actually, no, you don't have to have all that to deal with confuse. I listed that because Valour commented that Conj's have a crap base attack compared to a hunter. I merely pointed out that it's by choice. A conj CAN match the base attack of a hunter, and in fact can exceed it because he can have fast attack 300dmg base whereas a hunter needs a med/20bow(or lvl 50 25/med xym bow) and dirty fighting to get the same base bmg.

Simple pre-buffing and a few offensive spells in your repitiore with a decent base attack is enough to give you a fighting chance against confusion in battles. If you're serious about beating up on confuse archers, yes, lvl 19 staff mastery is probably the way to go.

I don't think confuse is overpowered because of the other spells out there that are every bit as powerful to deal with. Confuse is really the only good pre-emption to MoD or Darkness, for instance. It is a very neccesary skill.

ON TOPIC: MArksmen should be divorced from the evasion tree.

Always with the same, you really like to avoid things. No ones wants to remove confuse. We only want a duration nerf. 40 secs its too much.

And even with all damage setups you want, a conjurer is a toy in hunter hands with the confuse as it is.

And please tell me what tree you will give to marksmans. Long bows? Tricks? Scouting? Dont be like Mario who wanted Wizardry for all mages and enchantments only for conjurers. Marksmans like all archers will have the evasion tree, if they nerf something they nerf it for all archers. Hunters dont need to be evasion bitches.

[daehenob]

Back on topic...

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7327/marksconfigck0.png

;D

[Valour]

Wow =O

Good luck on that :D

[BlooD]

Back on topic...

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7327/marksconfigck0.png

;D

Beat Slamar´s marksman normal damage :P

Without onslaugth, only cat reflexes lvl 4, bless weapon lvl 4 and cut their heads lvl 4. I wonder how much can it be with the buffs on 5 and recharged on lvl 5. Ah yeah its with recharged arrows lvl 1.

[Valorius]

Marksmen could have an all new tree that combines some evasion with some new support skills. Offensive Marksmen having access to the same defensive spells as the defensive hunter class is ridiculous.

In fact, offensive marksmen have MORE defense than the defensive hunter class, which is doubly ridiculous.

And remember your view on what value confuse has against a conj is based on you having a pet. For a petless hunter, who does far less dmg per second(but who is better in fort wars), one cannot "simply dance around a confused conjuror" while their pet pounds the conj into the dirt. Because we have no pet.

As far as beetle swarm, in 9 secs you can get off 3 piggy-back attack sequences. So Beetle swarm eliminates 3 full piggy-back attacks. IOW, your DPS plummets. Confuse removes your ability to buff, but your DPS is completely unchanged. To me, Beetle Swarm is every bit as good of a spell. And i wouldn't call that overpowered either, btw.

At any rate, if you don't want to see my commentary, just ignore me. It's quite simple to do. But don't expect me to stop offering my views.

Because it's not going to happen.

[BlooD]

Marksmen could have an all new tree that combines some evasion with some new support skills. Offensive Marksmen having access to the same defensive spells as the defensive hunter class is ridiculous.

In fact, offensive marksmen have MORE defense than the defensive hunter class, which is doubly ridiculous.

And remember your view on what value confuse has against a conj is based on you having a pet. For a petless hunter, who does far less dmg per second(but who is better in fort wars), one cannot "simply dance around a confused conjuror" while their pet pounds the conj into the dirt. Because we have no pet.

At any rate, if you don't want to see my commentary, just ignore me. It's quite simple to do. But don't expect me to stop offering my views.

Because it's not going to happen.

The tree change is not going to happen, even less if you want to do a new whole tree for them since with which one will archers start? No tree changes after you choose a subclass and thats is not going to happen with the marksmans.

With the pet argument i could the same stupid argument like you saying you have a bad configuration vs mages but i will not do it. And of course i am sure a petless hunter can kill a confused conjuror easily without his pet in less than 40 secs, and in less than 20 too.

You can say whatever you want, but if your arguments will always be "dont steal my evasion", "I am the first idiot who thinks the rank matters" , "Bettle swarm blocks 3 FULLL ROUNDS OF PIGGY BACK ATTACKS" and "MoD is better and until they change it i will never accept what you say" Is better if you shut up.

Try other classes and come here after that, you will never do it i know but since you dont have idea of playing anything except hunter (and we can discuse a lot if you know how to play it or not) the 90% of your arguments are pointless.

[ljwolfe]

Well my bow can only hit for damage greater then zero damage, 10% or less of the time, so fix that before taking sotw+ds away. Otherwise, this is a non-issue given the insanely low hit rates.

[mrclean]

So let me get this right, a ranged class character, and a pretty poky one at that would have no change against a melee class?

hmm i think you have completely missed the point.

Let me put it another way, imagine im a marks jogging merrily along. I see a warrior 'ooo scary'

So i cast in this order

1. SOTW.
2. DS on the warrior

I am now untouchable but for a good few seconds i can base attack and kill pretty much everything.

I've no troubles to defeat a marksman that casts SotW as first spell...




lol... they have a chance.. maybe in their huge dmg hits.. or already high evasion..crazy defence...control spells such as ambush... or perhaps that spell that will do 600dmg regardless of defence....yep, sounds like marks have it hard...
Epic. Quote.
:p

A note... You may not agree on something I say, but starting with "lol" is really not the best way to do it.

Cleary you both don't know how hard is to pvp warriors with a marksman, at least a barb with unstoppable madness and a knight with decent blocks. I had a really nice pvp with Znurre few days ago, without SotW I would have no chances and I lost anyway. If you think I'm a noob with the marksman (I can agree on this) then ask Gpomal how is hard to defeat a "good" warrior with a marksman.

The point is you all shout "nerf nerf nerf" but everyother could shout "nerf nerf nerf" to the damned soulkeeper vampirism timemaster and so on. Why no one ask for an improvement of his own class instead of shout a nerf of another?

Let's say they nerf marksmen. The next one would be mmmm hunters? Ok... Then? There will be always something to complain about.

I'm not just defending the marksman class, so far everyone sees I'm not playing it, just sometimes to have some fun with another class, but the overall behaviour, that is not constructive imo. Ethereal arrow kills me so often (and I get the "You've been defeated by Dark Feanor" bugged message really often in war :D) but in small fights or pvp they're not so much a trouble for me. If you nerf them, then warriors against marksmen will be overpowered and so on and on...

[Valorius]

Try other classes and come here after that, you will never do it i know but since you dont have idea of playing anything except hunter (and we can discuse a lot if you know how to play it or not) the 90% of your arguments are pointless.
So put me on ignore like i did to you(re-adding you after this post). 90% of your posts are telling people how they're wrong and you're right. Like you're the all knowing regnum expert.

You're not.

At any rate, the marksman class will never be balanced if it has the evasion tree, without seriously eroding the hunters capabilities as well (which is exactly what happened with SoTW when it was nerfed).

As far as MoD, don't keep telling me it's gonna be fixed. It's been screwed up since i got here, and it's still not been changed. And yes, with a fast bow and the rapid fire skill you can get 3 piggy backs off in 9 seconds.

Cleary you both don't know how hard is to pvp warriors with a marksman, at least a barb with unstoppable madness and a knight with decent blocks. I had a really nice pvp with Znurre few days ago, without SotW I would have no chances and I lost anyway. If you think I'm a noob with the marksman (I can agree on this) then ask Gpomal how is hard to defeat a "good" warrior with a marksman.
I PVP'd Yoseba tonight. I think he probably had about 5% health left when i died. It was a good fight. But i don't see how a properly set up marksman (ie one optimized for pvping against warriors) could lose to a warrior without really bad luck.

With acrobat 5, defensive tactics 5, and strategic position 5 you only take like 15-20% of normal damage. My arrows literally do 30-40 dmg vs "full defensive" marksmen(the same arrows do 300+ vs mages).

[DkySven]

Because we have no pet.

You tell that conjurers just have to adjust their setup, but you refuse to do it yourself. Get yourself a pet if you hit weak without it.

[Anpu]

Mage is not knight, look armor points.
Knight can block tons of spells, making us spending mana for nothing. And he can cast that one particular spell every 30 seconds constantly.
Fight with knight is 50-50% chance to win. That fight demands all possible tricks to use, every possible tactic, and constant moving. Maybe even counting 30 seconds for proper launch of confuse (to buy yourself some time disabling higher block chance). SotW is not included because its expensive and no use, unless opponent has mind squasher. Arcana strike is no use too. You must know which spells are convenient for knight, not all can give desired result. So its not just clicking on all damage spells, not all can reduce hp like they do on mages (arcana is for example perfect for conju with steel skin). And on top of that, you must have great mana management, so you can cast additional protection after some time to buy yourself more time for fight and chance to win. Mage has lower hp, knigt has higher. We evade, he blocks. His damage is lower while we are under protection, my damage is not big too. But we have goal to remove more health with our spells who can fail due to high block rate. Yes, we can evade spells too. But when all spells go down, and no mana on any side, knight has advantage in damage, his hits are stronger. Dont tell me that marksman have knight hit, because you can choose: high hit-low defense, vice versa, or balancing both but with both sides not maxed (so again no so high hits).and no counting buffs (recharged arrows stops if no mana too).
So again, its not click click on all red colored spells. there is much more behind it. And we are talking about standard knights, not those who invest all in damage reducing armor and gets pwned much faster.

[misaccc]

Marksman cannot kill a good knight without hit&run...i havent been killed by a marks who didnt use that tactics for months now...mind squash ftw

[mrclean]

I PVP'd Yoseba tonight. I think he probably had about 5% health left when i died. It was a good fight. But i don't see how a properly set up marksman (ie one optimized for pvping against warriors) could lose to a warrior without really bad luck.

With acrobat 5, defensive tactics 5, and strategic position 5 you only take like 15-20% of normal damage. My arrows literally do 30-40 dmg vs "full defensive" marksmen(the same arrows do 300+ vs mages).

Sorry, but I don't see yoseba as a good example... I really think it's a matter of skills, setup and of course luck. If my mind squasher works, well there's few a marksman can do. I trip/feint ribs break him and shield bash while immobilized. Usually this is more than enough to bring him down. Barbarians have nice combos, I love to fight with Znurre, he uses the brain, nice dizzying and debuffing spells and nice 60 seconds of unstoppable madness. I see my pvps with him pretty balanced but we rely both on mind squasher.

And for the marksman vs warrior matter: what if death sentence got blocked? What if death sentence works but the warrior reach less than 4 metres distance from him? Without SotW, I would mind squasher him if fails do some other tactic and retry when I can, then if works bye bye marks... If you don't have mind squasher, well it's your fault cause actually it doesn't mean mind squasher is overpowered or marksman is overpowered, means that you have a setup that is not so good to fight him (or probably also a lack of skills).

I don't know so good other classes, but I almost always hunted with gpomal, I know his style, I learnt a lot from him and I can say that just warlocks are not a problem for a marksman, but I can't judge so far simply cause I don't know well the warlock class.

It's true, in fort wars Marksmen have advantage simply cause they can stand far away from target and hit a lot, but is the same with warlocks and their areas then when marksmen will be nerfed you'll complain about terror? No one is doing this, but someone instead is complaining about deflecting barrier. And this one can be avoided going close to the target... I hope you will get my point about the "nerf" disease...

EDIT:
Marksman cannot kill a good knight without hit&run...i havent been killed by a marks who didnt use that tactics for months now...mind squash ftw

I was able to defeat them quite good also with a nice combo of southcross/disable limb :D no hit and run as well ^^

[-Edge-]

It's true this is a RvR game, I expected such kind of answer. But one of the things I really love of regnum is that you are not forced to play in just a way. Indeed, arenas would have no sense at all if NGD didn't think about pvps.

I wish this game was PvP, but its far far from it.

But I am starting to see a lack of creativity ingame, everyone looks the same, everyone gets the same drops, everyone uses the same skills, (maybe when the limit on Reset powers comes in it will add some inviduality)

Like Red Star always says, this game is becoming more and more item based. There is hardly any difference between players.

[fluffy_muffin]

Beat Slamar´s marksman normal damage :P

Without onslaugth, only cat reflexes lvl 4, bless weapon lvl 4 and cut their
You mean lightness? :P

[Ironfoot]

Barbarians have nice combos, I love to fight with Znurre, he uses the brain, nice dizzying and debuffing spells and nice 60 seconds of unstoppable madness. I see my pvps with him pretty balanced but we rely both on mind squasher.

aaa last time i checked lvl 5 madness duration is 45 secs.

[mrclean]

Sorry, by checking regnumzg.com.ar I saw 60 seconds, I can't check by myself since I have no barbarian character. I notice there's no resistence to immobilize so the site must be out of date. Even this, the main sense is the same ;)

[fluffy_muffin]

I assume that my post and Inkster's one are removed by gamemode?
Cool so we can't post jokes in General section but flames in Dev sections are allowed?

[BlooD]

So put me on ignore like i did to you(re-adding you after this post). 90% of your posts are telling people how they're wrong and you're right. Like you're the all knowing regnum expert.

You're not.

At any rate, the marksman class will never be balanced if it has the evasion tree, without seriously eroding the hunters capabilities as well (which is exactly what happened with SoTW when it was nerfed).

As far as MoD, don't keep telling me it's gonna be fixed. It's been screwed up since i got here, and it's still not been changed. And yes, with a fast bow and the rapid fire skill you can get 3 piggy backs off in 9 seconds.


Of course i am not the regnum expert, thats slamar i think, but when i try to argue something at least i think what other classes can do and what i can do.

When you try to defend your class you just say a random spell from other class, you talk of how bad it is for you and since you dont know much about them you fail the 95% of the times (bettle swarm lets you do nothing, of course...)

Evasion tree is overpowered for archers, archers doesnt need better defense than knigths, simply as that, but you never will accept it. If you play only a week with a warrior you will see it.

And if they screw up hunters because they nerf evasion, and they will be not much nerfed. They will give them things to their own trees, since there is a lot of useless spells in them.

And i know the fast bow thing, i am not saying you cant do it, what i say its just stupid to compare that spell and confuse. 40 secs vs 9.

And about MoD just pick a warlock and cast it. Few people survives the 60 secs. And they will change it the day the archers stop being the better tanks.


You mean lightness? :P


Oopps i meant feline dexterity xD

[gamemod]

I assume that my post and Inkster's one are removed by gamemode?
Cool so we can't post jokes in General section but flames in Dev sections are allowed?
Hi Zielski and rest of the Community,

As a part of moderation, posts that can lead to a massive off topic must be deleted.

If you find a "flame" situation, there's a tool to report Bad Posts, which you can use to notify us immediately and avoid them.

Please continue with the main topic.

Regards.

[makarios68]

I have to say, i felt kinda sorry for warriors, especially barbs.

I never even felt any worry when facing them 1v1, and didn't lose a 1v1 against a warrior for a long time before i stopped playing.

I'm not trying to make out that this was because i was awesome ; it was because barbs rarely did a lot of dmg on me because of my control spells, protection shields and SOW, and knights couldn't touch me with the run/turn/shoot technique.

Yes, i would say against warriors 1v1 hunters are overpowered.

[mrclean]

I would say it is a matter of speed more than SotW itself... Usually escapist causes me more troubles than SotW (if this one is not used to escape).

[fluffy_muffin]

And if they screw up hunters because they nerf evasion, and they will be not much nerfed. They will give them things to their own trees, since there is a lot of useless spells in them.
I will not argue since i have no sotw and no spell elude :P It would be much nicer if this change (i prefer calling it change) would be more precise. Too general words are mostly source of flames. We have magnet suggestions about evasion tree - most of them are hard to comment in non offensive way but it is base for discussion. Yes i can fight without spell elude and i am using dodge only from time to time and basically i can survive (btw i won 2 pvp with imo great barb without sotw and spell elude). But other site, now i only wait for flaming ppl on ambush from camu esp. warlocks :>
When we are tanks we can fight less dirty, when we can't compare with our defense then we will start fighting in way that will start more flames.
But i don't care ;P


Please continue with the main topic.
I understand and assume that 2/3 of posts in topic Confuse will be deleted too. Same as 5/7 posts in whole forum.
Yes it was sarcastic.

[octopus]

What happen with SotW?:
- some hunter come out of camou, confuses a Conjurer, use Dirty Fighting, when people start focusing on him he casts SotW, the lone Conju stands no chance even running around a tree (because hits are instant and SotW gives speed bonus): there can be 5 allies with him, if no other is a Conju, the Conju will die and the Hunter cannot be stopped. This is what I call serious imbalance


This is exactly what killed the fun of Regnum for me. Most everyone seems to be screaming for SotW to be modified so it isn't "God Mode" but NGD hasn't done anything about it. This added to bugged fort doors and other imbalance issues that NGD hasn't fixed for months has ruined the game.

I have to say that my life has significantly improved since quitting Regnum. In the last three weeks, I've gotten 10 times as much exercise, spent a lot more time with my family and friends, and started taking martial arts classes again. I dusted off my scuba gear, and will go diving this weekend, something I have not done since I started playing Regnum. It is good to have a life again. I strongly encourage any of you that are spending far too much of your lives playing a meaningless broken game to re-join the world of real people, you might be surprised how rewarding it can be.

Regards,

-Mehgan

[Valorius]

Wtf? Mind Squasher existed before you even started playing. More proof that you are nuts :lol:.
It didn't work. Please note that i said "When it was implemented." Ie, when it was fixed. Not when it was conceived.


Btw today a syrtis hunter went sotw and camo at limit while us 5 were attacking like mad...wiiii
I agree, that is a lame tactic to just stand there in the open and cast it. Of course you're REALLY relying on pure luck, because SoTW fails quite often.

WRT going invis, I only use SoTW to open up a gap(for the speed boost) and hide behind a rock or tree to cast Invis.

As for mindsquasher, one spell that trumps all your buffs, and can hit past DI, yeah, sorry, i feel that to be overpowered. Ignoring buffs like ethereal arrow is one thing. REMOVING them is something else entirely. So yeah, i feel mindsquash is overpowered. But because so few use it, it really doesn't much matter in the grand scheme of things.

[Tyr]

Mind Squasher is still not spell that works 100% of the time. It is only what 50% chance when it lands to remove buffs.

The main problem with SotW is not the evade rate it is the lack penalty for using it. On top of the no damage spells it should also increase the users miss rate. Wind will change how an arrow flies. There should be a -100 protection too. So when you do land a hit it hurts more. The only other change to balance out the SotW and camo combo is that any hit should cancel camo not just normal shots.

[Valorius]

Mind Squasher is still not spell that works 100% of the time. It is only what 50% chance when it lands to remove buffs.

The main problem with SotW is not the evade rate it is the lack penalty for using it. On top of the no damage spells it should also increase the users miss rate. Wind will change how an arrow flies. There should be a -100 protection too. So when you do land a hit it hurts more. The only other change to balance out the SotW and camo combo is that any hit should cancel camo not just normal shots.
The SoTW spell doesn't actually have anything to do with wind. It's just the name of it, and "The archer moves like the wind" or whatever.

SOTW was already massively nerfed once. It's fine how it is now except for 2 possible changes: 1, no casting invis from it(though i would want an off switch in that case), and 2, no sitting down while under SoTW(to regen mana). This is an ulber, ulber cheap tactic.

[Tyr]

SOTW was already massively nerfed once. It's fine how it is now except for 2 possible changes: 1, no casting invis from it(though i would want an off switch in that case), and 2, no sitting down while under SoTW(to regen mana). This is an ulber, ulber cheap tactic.

It was not that nerfed.... It just stops us from casting a volley of damage spells with an extreme evade rate. The sitting and mana regen I 100% agree. The camo is fine under SotW and if it was just canceled on any type of hit normal or spell shot. We both know SotW is not 100% effective and there is plenty of shot that get past. That little change would prevent SotW and camo work as much.

And yes I know it has nothing to do with the wind but I was thinking more of the animation not the description.

[misaccc]

So a spell that has (usually) about 20-30% chance of clearing your buffs is overpowered but a spell that gives ya 70% chance of evading everything is not...pfft...i fought 4 sotw archers today...i didnt hit them once when they used it...but its ok because i have mind squash right?(all 4 evaded;D )

[Valorius]

So a spell that has (usually) about 20-30% chance of clearing your buffs is overpowered
It's 50%

but a spell that gives ya 70% chance of evading everything is not...pfft...i fought 4 sotw archers today...i didnt hit them once when they used it...but its ok because i have mind squash right?(all 4 evaded;D )
SoTW (using your % chance) also has a 30% chance of not working at all. I've been killed from full health in 2 hits while 'protected' by SoTW before.

And i did just admit two areas of SoTW that should be adressed. Though for some reason, Blood found it hilarious that i think it's ulber cheap to sit down mid fight (with barbs swinging axes at your head) and build mana while under SoTW (usually this is done so the archer can stand up and cast invis with the aforementioned barbs swinging axes at his head).

Shrug, what can you do.

[misaccc]

Oh no it aint...you see most people have mind squash on 4(40%)...but we all have evade,resist and knights blocks layers...add the buffs layer...and there you go...
And no sotw has 30% chance of failing to stop 1 hit...and if you were buffed before casting it there is almost no chance you get hit....

[Valorius]

Oh no it aint...you see most people have mind squash on 4(40%)
By choice.

And no sotw has 30% chance of failing to stop 1 hit...and if you were buffed before casting it there is almost no chance you get hit....
Yet somehow i get hit at least once every time it's cast, and sometimes many, many times. And ya gotta love when you get knocked down or confused or mindsquashed while under SoTW. Woowhoo, 450 mana out the window for nothin'!

Go figure. :sifflote:

I swear every time you die under SoTW if you listen real close you can hear the server laughing at you. :-P

[Mattdoesrock]

Eurgh..

You can't say that Sotw "failed" if you get hit, that's just BS.

If sotw were 100% evade, and you got hit, then it would have failed.

As it is now, at 80%, getting hit does not mean it has failed.

Today, my lvl 5 Mind Squasher didn't de-buff five times in a row - it's all down to luck.

[BlooD]

Sorry for being like this but SoW is 80% evade chance not 70%.

Source:
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=14395

[gamemod]

Hi Community,

I had to delete several posts to avoid this thread to become a "flaming" one. Please continue with the main topic and don't reply to this message.

Regards.

[Mattdoesrock]

Sorry for being like this but SoW is 80% evade chance not 70%.

Source:
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=14395

Sorry, my mistake :)

[Valorius]

Eurgh..

You can't say that Sotw "failed" if you get hit, that's just BS.

If you get it hit, it failed to protect you. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

BTW, i got mind squahed at pinos tonight right after i'd just got done buffing. I had to hide in the fort until all my spells cooled down. 2:00 minutes out of the fight. I did a little sniping from the walls, but with no buffs marksmen tear you to pieces in just a couple hits, so i spent most of the time recoving Hitpoints too, lol.

[Inkster]

There are a lot of people commenting on hunters on this thread when it was origionally a topic about Marksmen. Please keep on topic

And with regards to this:

don't reply to this message.

Regards.

ok i wont :P

[Vroek]

I dont agree Ink!
If you claim an archer ability (I refuse to call this one a skill) is overpowered for marksmen but not for hunters?
This certainly puts hunters in the topic as well! Since people will agree or disagree with this underlying statement of your topic.
Like it or not, but you brought it up first!

Ever thought it might be DS and/or RA that is overpowered in this case?
These are the main buff/debuff that can give the +90% damage during SofW.
I like to believe 600 -800 damage is overpowered for marksmen regardless of SofW use or not.

[Mage_pegusas]

Even if a HUNTER is SOTW, the chances are he/she won't be able to normal hit you to death before the spell wears off anyways, so i would say that SOTW is just overpowered in the hands of marksmen, maybe it should be moved to scouting (?). Although with my lvl 40 hunter, i was able to tank 2 lvl 50 hunters + 2 lvl 50 pets last night, for around 60 seconds with SOTW + defence buffs, until reinforcements came... Food for thought? ;)
(btw with lvl 1 dodge, i got 6 evades in a row-imba? :p)

[_dracus_]

Even if a HUNTER is SOTW, the chances are he/she won't be able to normal hit you to death before the spell wears off anyways, so i would say that SOTW is just overpowered in the hands of marksmen, maybe it should be moved to scouting (?). Although with my lvl 40 hunter, i was able to tank 2 lvl 50 hunters + 2 lvl 50 pets last night, for around 60 seconds with SOTW + defence buffs, until reinforcements came... Food for thought? ;)
(btw with lvl 1 dodge, i got 6 evades in a row-imba? :p)

Imo SotW itself needs a huge rework. Today I was ambush while chating on IRC by Compoundious, Inkster and Blu Arrow. I cast SotW and killed Inkster before dying. That's uterly ridiculous to fight against 2 lvl 50 and a level 46-47 (Blu arrow?), and be able to get one of the level 50 out before the others got me.

[UmarilsStillHere]

SOTW is more overpowered for a marks than a hunter, partially because of death sentance + recharged arrows and also because of the marksmans extra armour meaning that dmg done is low even if u land a hit

also to many here are trying to downplay SOTW saying how often it fails and that its ONLY 80% evade...

80% is a hell of a lot, if i try to hit you 100 times then (only takeing sotw into account NOT other buffs or passives ect) i would only land 20 hits and miss 80, most fight you may akt 20 times tops? so with 70% evade only 7 hits will land (WITHOUT ANY OTHER PASSIVES OR OTHER EVADE SPELLS!)

personaly in my experiance hits under sotw are rare and often ineffective unless by some miricial you land squasher or a knock down ...


aaaanyway, we have 1000's of hunter hate threads, can we move back to marks+SOTW?

[CumeriTarenes]

Imo SotW itself needs a huge rework. Today I was ambush while chating on IRC by Compoundious, Inkster and Blu Arrow. I cast SotW and killed Inkster before dying. That's uterly ridiculous to fight against 2 lvl 50 and a level 46-47 (Blu arrow?), and be able to get one of the level 50 out before the others got me.

well, I was not there but from fighting with ink and twink I know that they don't want to kill that fast to give everyone in the party a possibiliy to get some shoots on the victim. This way they make sure that everybody in the party gets a fair rp share.

but yes, sotw has too long duration...back to 14sec duration and leave it as it is and it would be more fair.

Sotw once was 14 sec duration and can attack and can cast all spells. Then they increased duration to 20 sec and cannot cast dmg spells. Main problem is the long duration I think. If it is balanced when you just decrease duration: I dunno, time will tell, but it is more balanced than as it is now

[Mage_pegusas]

6 times, if 70% evade. But it is 80% per hit, so you have 1/5 chance of hitting per hit.Chances of hitting through SOTW are slim to none though. And it would make sense to lower duration + higher cooldown? It is already high on mana as it is, so would just be overkill adding more mana cost to it.

I think it would be best to make SOTW a hunter-only spell, as marksmen have an extra defence spell as it is, so it would make sense IMO.

[BlooD]

AFAIK SoTW does not evade the 80% of the attacks.

What SoTW does is giving you a 80% chance of evade every attack casted on you.

Which its a great difference.

Same happens with elude spells, dodge, precise block etc.....

[Mage_pegusas]

Which is what i just said.. right? ...
(someone deleted this last time i said it >.>)
And to give marksmen this ability when they can hit you 600-800 with DS + SS + RA = really dumb idea.
Marks evade rates are just as high as hunters, which shouldnt be as hunters hit far far less dmg. Moving this skill to scouting, and shortening the duration is the only real way to deal with it.
Well IMO ^^

-------

Someone gave me bad rep for this, probably a marks, who knows im right...
"hunters have pets and high hits aswell" was the comment.
Well to this person: hunter needs to cast SS, dirty fighting (which would cut most hunters range to between 10-12.5m) and god knows what else to even come close to marks normal hits.

And as far as pets goes: A hunter would have to sacrifice points to put into pets, and my hunter is lvl 40, so i cannot afford a pet while wz.

So, to this person:- screw you ;) :biggrin:

[CumeriTarenes]

Someone gave me bad rep for this, probably a marks, who knows im right...
"hunters have pets and high hits aswell" was the comment.
Well to this person: hunter needs to cast SS, dirty fighting (which would cut most hunters range to between 10-12.5m) and god knows what else to even come close to marks normal hits.

And as far as pets goes: A hunter would have to sacrifice points to put into pets, and my hunter is lvl 40, so i cannot afford a pet while wz.

So, to this person:- screw you ;) :biggrin:


well, he is right by saying hunters have pets. A cyclops with bestial wrath will hit easiely more than 600. Only thing is while the hunter is under sotw you can still kill the pet, but you cannot kill a marks when using sotw + DS. But...when the hunter goes sotw, casts bestial warath and then ambush you are almost dead...

And to the point that pets cost points: A marks recharged, DS and other damage spells cost points too...

btw, you made a double post. And if your post was deleted by "someone" (gamemod i guess) it is for a reason, there is realy no need to post it again.

But no, the bad karma was not from me...I always sign my karma, and bad karma I just gave once at all so far.

[Mage_pegusas]

But DS + Recharged do come very early,
whereas AFAIK: after gol-tar you HAVE to get lvl 5 pets.. which needs lvl 19 pets. Level 4 DS + level 5 recharged is far less points, but is more devestating :)
And btw, i want beastily wrath now =D (and my 1st post was way off-topic, sorry).

[Valorius]

but yes, sotw has too long duration...back to 14sec duration and leave it as it is and it would be more fair.

Sotw once was 14 sec duration and can attack and can cast all spells. Then they increased duration to 20 sec and cannot cast dmg spells. Main problem is the long duration I think. If it is balanced when you just decrease duration: I dunno, time will tell,

14 seconds? When was this?

but it is more balanced than as it is now
Huh?

well, he is right by saying hunters have pets. A cyclops with bestial wrath will hit easiely more than 600.
Cyclops hit me(with "Very bad" blunt protection) for 300 per hit. Beastial is max +50%, so you're talking 450.

Crits could possibly go as high as 600, but i've never been hit for that much by any pet, ever.

6 times, if 70% evade. But it is 80% per hit, so you have 1/5 chance of hitting per hit.Chances of hitting through SOTW are slim to none though.
I really wouldn't call a 20% chance "slim to none."

I think it would be best to make SOTW a hunter-only spell, as marksmen have an extra defence spell as it is, so it would make sense IMO.
Agreed.

[CumeriTarenes]

14 seconds? When was this?


Huh?


sorry, I just checked, it was 15 sec on lvl 5, not 14.


Cyclops hit me(with "Very bad" blunt protection) for 300 per hit. Beastial is max +50%, so you're talking 450.

Crits could possibly go as high as 600, but i've never been hit for that much by any pet, ever.

I am sure pets can hit 600 with bestial wrath, without crtis. Just ask other hunters, or mages who are hit by it.

Only thing is, not many hunters use bestial wrath.

[Valorius]

I am sure pets can hit 600 with bestial wrath, without crtis. Just ask other hunters, or mages who are hit by it.
I've never seen it.

Mages? Any of you ever been hit for 600 by a pet?

[Inkster]

I've never seen it.

Mages? Any of you ever been hit for 600 by a pet?

700 as a critical i certainly have

[mrclean]

AFAIK SoTW does not evade the 80% of the attacks.

What SoTW does is giving you a 80% chance of evade every attack casted on you.

Which its a great difference.

Same happens with elude spells, dodge, precise block etc.....

I never thought about this... So for example when I cast Precise Block an hit has 30% chances to be blocked, while I was thinking to block an average 30% of the attacks in those 30 seconds. And I was sure of the latter cause very often happens to block attacks in "burst".

Cool to know it :thumb:

[CumeriTarenes]

in the end it is the same if you evade 80% of all hits or if a hit has a 80% chance to be evaded.

Propblem is the absolute number. I don't know how it is with sotw, but I heard people saying you can improve hit chance with buffs and will have far better chance to hit trough sotw. So I guess sotw is not absolute, but I don't know.

[mrclean]

I had an idea for SotW... I think we can discuss it, if you like it or no, even if this is not the "Suggestion" section of the forum.

Instead of putting it like "cannot cast" "cannot attack" etc, why not make it a "The archer gains almost immunity to non-ranged attacks". In this way an archer will evade almost all attacks by closing the range to the enemy, while mages and other archers (at more than a given range, let's say melee range for example) will pass the SotW defense.

Let's take in exam the similar spells I know, everyother has drawbacks:
Army of One: no defense from control spells;
Unstoppable Madness: no defense from damage;
Sanctuary: cannot attack or cast non healing spells;
(I'm not so skilled about mages, warlocks will forgive me :D)

Right now:
Son of the Wind: cannot cast damaging spells.

Now the problem everyone feels is like marksmen can cast a lot of debuffing spells (first of all Death Sentence, then Sudden Strike or Ambush those are common to Hunter class) while in SotW. So my idea would be, let them cast everything they want but:

Son of the Wind: doesn't protect from ranged attacks

So archers will need knights to gain protection from ranged attacks (more teamplay), warriors will have not an unfair advantage in figthing pvp with marksmen/hunters. A marksman casting Death Sentence in SotW will lose advantage of Death Sentence itself closing the range so should balance really his skills to play.

Now, let's flame me up [kidding] :biggrin:

EDIT: some typo :F

[trash]

Now the problem everyone feels is like marksmen can cast a lot of debuffing spells (first of all Death Sentence, then Sudden Strike or Ambush those are common to Hunter class) while in SotW. So my idea would be, let them cast everything they want but:

Son of the Wind: doesn't protect from ranged attacks

So archers will need knights to gain protection from ranged attacks (more teamplay), warriors will have not an unfair advantage in figthing pvp with marksmen/hunters. A marksman casting Death Sentence in SotW will lose advantage of Death Sentence itself closing the range so should balance really his skills to play.

Now, let's flame me up [kidding] :biggrin:


Sounds good to me, or it doesn't protect from melee attacks. Either way a much need hole is put in it's implicit over effectiveness.

[Valorius]

If SoTW doesn't protect vs ranged attacks, its useless as an aid for escape.

It's only use at that time is to protect vs fighters, and they will still whine it's overpowered. I would just leave it alone. It fails all the time. I (along with various allies) killed several enemy archers with SoTW cast last night.
I die under SoTW at least 1x every day.

[fluffy_muffin]

I die under SoTW at least 1x every day.
There are other skills... i mean spell icons. And you can believe or not but we all die. So argument that you die from time to time under sotw is invalid. Cause you should die more often if your only tactic is to cast sotw. It is easy. You know that you can kill barb without spell elude, sotw, dodge only with evasive tactic or even complete naked? There is life beside sotw.

[Inkster]

Just a thought, If you are under Sotw and get knocked, should this not dispell Sotw by the nature of your ass on the floor and therefore not moving?

[BlooD]

I never thought about this... So for example when I cast Precise Block an hit has 30% chances to be blocked, while I was thinking to block an average 30% of the attacks in those 30 seconds. And I was sure of the latter cause very often happens to block attacks in "burst".

Cool to know it :thumb:

The burst thing its a bug i think. Lot of times seems like the server gets lazy and decides not spend much time calculating what attack goes through and what attack doesnt. It happens a lot with piggiback attacks from archers, if you fail you normal shot most of the times the skill fails too.

So if you recieve 5 attacks almost instantly lot of times you just block/evade/resist all of them.

in the end it is the same if you evade 80% of all hits or if a hit has a 80% chance to be evaded.

Well its a great difference, if i cast 10 meteors on you and 2 will always get through at least i know that 2 will work.

As it is now maybe all gets through (almost impossible but it can happen) or you just evade all. Its luck but when i have to roll a 9 or a 10 in a dice with each attack to pass through it its really hard to be lucky.

[CumeriTarenes]

blood, when you look in the statistics you see that there is no difference between a spell has 80 % miss chance or if 80% of all spells are missing.


It is random, and that means if I am lucky I evade 100 out of 100 meteors. If I have bad luck I will evade not a single of them.

the chance that the first hit gets trough sotw is 20%, as well as the 10th hit has a 20% chance to get trough as sotw. When you sum it up you come to the conclusion that there is a 20% chance for you to get hit trough sotw. That means 20% of all hits fired on you will come trough, the number of incomming hits just have to be big enough to be independent from luck.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Just a thought, If you are under Sotw and get knocked, should this not dispell Sotw by the nature of your ass on the floor and therefore not moving?

not bad same should apply to blocks im allways amazed at how an archer can evade lieing on the floor...

[Envy]

not bad same should apply to blocks im allways amazed at how an archer can evade lieing on the floor...

In Ignis we're taught to move like snakes.

Given the games engine, is it possible to program skill effects to only be active when on the move, or when only stationary?

[Valorius]

There are other skills... i mean spell icons. And you can believe or not but we all die. So argument that you die from time to time under sotw is invalid.
Your logic here is nonexistent.

The fact that archers die under SoTW protection all the time is entirely relevant.

Cause you should die more often if your only tactic is to cast sotw. It is easy.
Yes, because casting ambush 5 and standing there while your pet pummels a guy laying on the ground is genius. Real genius.

You know that you can kill barb without spell elude, sotw, dodge only with evasive tactic or even complete naked? There is life beside sotw.
You don't say?

When you sum it up you come to the conclusion that there is a 20% chance for you to get hit trough sotw. That means 20% of all hits fired on you will come trough, the number of incomming hits just have to be big enough to be independent from luck.
Exactly. Mathematically speaking, if 5 enemy are attacking you, one hit should get through SoTW for each fusillade the enemy fires.

not bad same should apply to blocks im allways amazed at how an archer can evade lieing on the floor...
I'm amazed when i shoot players sitting down or afk that they evade/block too.

So don't feel bad.

[CumeriTarenes]

well, looking at my sentence again you have to take into account that an archer has about 15% natuaraly evade/resist layer, depending on dex and evade passive. When you add spell elude, which many archers have always on you get even higher chance not to get hit under sotw.

[Mattdoesrock]

Yes, because casting ambush 5 and standing there while your pet pummels a guy laying on the ground is genius. Real genius.

And depending on Sotw is?

[Valorius]

And depending on Sotw is?
Did i say it was? Or was i merely responding to a nonsensical statement with a counter-example?

Casting ambush5, and letting your pet smoke some defenseless guy is hardly an act of tactical genius.

well, looking at my sentence again you have to take into account that an archer has about 15% natuaraly evade/resist layer, depending on dex and evade passive. When you add spell elude, which many archers have always on you get even higher chance not to get hit under sotw.
Yes, and you spend 830 mana to get that protection.

SoTW 450
Spell elude 300
Dodge(lvl 1) 80 (i swear this spell doesn't even work, lol)

[fluffy_muffin]

Yes, because casting ambush 5 and standing there while your pet pummels a guy laying on the ground is genius. Real genius.

Lvl4 and it is not my problem that many ppl is walking alone, unbuffed :] and they have many ways to resist ambush. There are skills, passives for that you know?
Gah i am talking to Valorius. :dumbofme:

[BlooD]

blood, when you look in the statistics you see that there is no difference between a spell has 80 % miss chance or if 80% of all spells are missing.


It is random, and that means if I am lucky I evade 100 out of 100 meteors. If I have bad luck I will evade not a single of them.

the chance that the first hit gets trough sotw is 20%, as well as the 10th hit has a 20% chance to get trough as sotw. When you sum it up you come to the conclusion that there is a 20% chance for you to get hit trough sotw. That means 20% of all hits fired on you will come trough, the number of incomming hits just have to be big enough to be independent from luck.

Yeah what i mean its just that, even if theorically its the same, in practice terms that will never happen, we just need too many attacks to see taht 20% chance.

What i say is saying 1 of each 5 attacks will enter its not true (it will never happen in regnum) since you have such a high possibility of evading you will evade most of the attacks or even them all. If you are attacked 1000 times then maybe 200 will enter, but in a figth most of the times you will recieve 20 attacks and you will evade 19.

Same happens with SC, even if it has 70% chance of doing the +100% damage most of the times it will work. With such high chances it tends to work most of the times so saying 2 attacks of 10 will work when you are in sow its not true.

Thats what i was trying to say.

[UmarilsStillHere]

thing about evades on the floor i did mention blocks so i ment that too btw :thumb_up:

[Valorius]

Lvl4 and it is not my problem that many ppl is walking alone, unbuffed :] and they have many ways to resist ambush. There are skills, passives for that you know?
Gah i am talking to Valorius. :dumbofme:
Sorry fluffy. "Ambush and pet bash" is as lame a tactic as the day is long.