Enchantments tree.

[Zordak]

Hi,

I think the enchantment discipline should be worked over; actually I tried to figure out a conju setup that makes sense and containes any stat bonus spell from enchants, but i just couldn't make one. It's just an incredible sink for skillpoints.
So my proposal would be (this concerns only the spells feline dex, bear str, bless, bless weapon, fox wits):
- change casting time to 0s (do that anyways, buffing is a pain atm, and theres absolutely no reason for that, especially since it's not consistent on all spells)
- make bonus from each of these skills fixed (either + numb er or + percentage)
- with spell lvl, duration increases (30s at lvl1, 2min at lvl5, scaling like DI)
- introduce a passive skill "increase stat bonus of mentioned spells". on lvl5 of passive the mentioned enchantment spells should give the bonus they give now on lvl5

Cooldown of the enchantments can be changed, too. I havent made my mind up about this yet. If you have balance issues concering my proposal think about compensating by raising enchantment's cooldown to 30s as DI is on lvl1 (now: 10s).

Anyways I think this would make enchantment tree more interesting for conjurers in war (not when lvling however... :S). The way this skilltree is organized atm is just not possible for me to use them. And i dont think thats cause im too selfish with my skillpoints.
However im not sure about the balance implications, since enchants are pretty subtle in their impact on wars. Hence im really interested in feedback.

Z.

[GIGO305]

i think the cooldown and cast time SHOULD be droped it cant posibly cause truble.

i like it that most enchantments at lvl 1 last 3mins and that should stay, higher levels increases the efect it makes.

your only nerfing warjurer and that can only hurt your self...

[save_the_trees]

I want dispell moved to an earlier position, for example lv 11 instead of 13. Reasons:
a) it would fit my setup :p
b) encourages lower lv conjus to use it.

Enchantment discipline is quite strange anyway. For what reasons should different + stat spells be avaiable at different discipline lv? Dex is the first, Int the last, thus archers are more likely to get a buff. Biased, or? I would suggest: One spell which gives + str and dex and int at once, one passive to increase the actual value of those buffs, change the minus conc one to minus str, dex, and int and use another passive for the actual value of the debuff.

[Zordak]

Actually I would rather propose to move dispel to a later spell lvl since its really powerful. But on the other hand it should be on the same discipling lvl as confuse... :P

Anyways how about my proposal of switching the amount stats are increased to a new passive skill?

Z.

[save_the_trees]

:thumb_up: for the passive, but don't you think that the rest in enchantments is not really the playing style of many conjurers? So it would be a waste to put so many points in a discipline for one spell

[ncvr]

I think dispel should be moved to a higher spot because my warlock can make a setup with it without sacrificing much.

[e30G]

What level do you suggest that higher spot to be?

[ncvr]

15? Fox Wits does not actually deserve such a high lvl for its effect and if it replaced Clumsiness we'd probably have archers complaining about it due to its -30 dex.

[e30G]

Sounds fair enough to me. It is a very good spell afterall.

[Zordak]

:thumb_up: for the passive, but don't you think that the rest in enchantments is not really the playing style of many conjurers? So it would be a waste to put so many points in a discipline for one spell

Which rest? theres 3 debuffs, and seven very nice conju spells. I actually have enchants on 19 for dispell and mass dispell, being defenitely among the most powerful support spells. But as much as i would like to have high lvl buffs i just cant afford them. And on lvl1 they arent really worth the effort (-> casting time).
Thats why I propose the change of organizing the bonuses via a passive.

Z.

[save_the_trees]

dispell and mass dispell are great. The other spells aren't bad either but just not as great as those two and "not fitting the style of many conjus" was referring to that sort of playing style where the conju does almost only lv 5 stat buffs and bless/bless weapon and not many other things because the points are missing somewhere else. At least I prefer not to put any points in stat buffs, I rather like to play 90% healer and 10% crowd controller, it's just more fun anyway. Sorry for that unclear formulation.
Btw what did you sacrifice for lv 19 enchantments apart from mental? mana communion, arcane devotion, or steel skin?

[Zordak]

Energy barrier ;)
mana control 13 (the lvl3 sacrifice is actually a pain), I use mind blank and karma mirror instead. That way i can have a lvl4 mana com & protection dome. Actually I like to be attacked by archers in SotW when karma mirror is on.:biggrin:

Concerning the buffing: Well I dont do it because in a stressful fight its pretty much impossible to buff ppl with 2s casting time spells, thats why i proposed changing casting times. Currently its just too painful and maybe thats the reason for few conjus choosing this type of skillsetup. Besides the obvious cost of skillpoints.
Actually I would like to see material wall and and that magic protection spell in enchants under the passive conditions, too. Maybe that would encourage even more to give enchant setups a try.

Z.

[_dracus_]

I want dispell moved to an earlier position, for example lv 11 instead of 13. Reasons:
a) it would fit my setup :p
b) encourages lower lv conjus to use it.


Ok lets move camouflage to 13 to encourage hunters to use it.

[save_the_trees]

I want dispell moved to an earlier position, for example lv 11 instead of 13. Reasons:
a) it would fit my setup :p
b) encourages lower lv conjus to use it.


It was only a joke, though I think that there would be nothing wrong with camo for lower lv. It's a characteristic, powerful but not ultimate spell of that subclass. Just like meteor or southcross/ripost. And those aren't at lv 15 like camo either.
I want to have said this so ppl don't think I'm just voting for hunters being nerved.

[_dracus_]

It was only a joke, though I think that there would be nothing wrong with camo for lower lv. It's a characteristic, powerful but not ultimate spell of that subclass. Just like meteor or southcross/ripost. And those aren't at lv 15 like camo either.
I want to have said this so ppl don't think I'm just voting for hunters being nerved.

Yes I first thought of confuse, but imo it should be swap with distracting shot. Powerfull spells need to be high in trees.

[fluffy_muffin]

Yes I first thought of confuse, but imo it should be swap with distracting shot. Powerfull spells need to be high in trees.
I have nothing against it :D

[_dracus_]

I have nothing against it :D

Maybe Addaloe won't like it cause of his fast bow ;)

[Valorius]

I want dispell moved to an earlier position, for
As far as i'm concerned dispel should be at least lvl 15. It is a tremendously powerful spell.

And to be honest, it's hard to argue with confuse being moved up to 17 either. Frankly, both dispel and confuse should both be lvl 17.

[sathilda]

As far as i'm concerned dispel should be at least lvl 15. It is a tremendously powerful spell.

And to be honest, it's hard to argue with confuse being moved up to 17 either. Frankly, both dispel and confuse should both be lvl 17.

Yup. But then make the other skills on enchantments useful at lvl 1, or that won't worth it at all...

I'm 40, it's dispell magic or tremor... if dispell moves to 15, then i prefer using tremor because the tree is more useful.

[e30G]

And to be honest, it's hard to argue with confuse being moved up to 17 either. Frankly, both dispel and confuse should both be lvl 17.

It would limit the setup options for those who plan to use these spells but I guess its fair given the spells' powers. However, I agree with Sathilda that the other buffs there should be made more effective. The Enchantment tree has good spells on paper, but they don't do much in reality.

[save_the_trees]

@ sathilda: at lv 50 the question is dispell or or 3rd lv 19 spell or mental down to lv 7. Mana pylon, evendims fury and steel skin are all really good spells. Dropping mental means the loss of ivy, knockdown and silence. Maybe dropping mental is ok for fort but on hunts those lv1 spells are really important. So what now? Your problem won't be solved at lv 50. And I'm not even talking of the lack of skill points to yet. Whatever you do, you will miss a lot. That's why I think that the spell is on a too high lv place for conjurers.
On the other hand I made a warlock setup today with dispell lv 3. And I don't have such problems there. I got almost everything I want (at lv 50 I will have everything I want, apart from twister, which is imo only a small loss, compared to dispell). So maybe we should just redistribute tasks and let warlocks do the dispell. It would be a more efficient use of skill points.

[e30G]

A conjurer can do well without will domain and silence. Ivy isn't a requirement either. Mental is not that important for a support conjurer. I have Dispell level 4 and I have no problems. Even with Enchantments at level 17 I do not think it will be difficult for me.

[Zordak]

A conjurer can do well without will domain and silence. Ivy isn't a requirement either. Mental is not that important for a support conjurer. I have Dispell level 4 and I have no problems. Even with Enchantments at level 17 I do not think it will be difficult for me.

Its nice to have some of the mental spells available, even when doing support. A lvl1 mindpush helps securing the support rows when "mad barbs" charge, and when they stop do the cheap beetle - they are certainly casting their areas... :sifflote:

Anyways, I probably chose a way too general title, but I still would go back to solving the buffing support issues. Maybe someone has a better solution than has been proposed here?

Z.

[e30G]

For me mental spells are a bonus, and I only get them using the spare discipline points left after I get my main spells. It all depends on your build philosphy and playing strategy. Anyway my post was in response to save_the_trees in that dispell wasn't that high up on the enchantments list anyway and that in my point of view you can create a workable setup for a level 50 even if you make it a level 17 enchantments spell as suggested by sathilda.

As for your initial post, I agree that it would be nice to have better ally buffs under the enchantments tree. It's too cumbersome to cast them all and the effects really aren't that good for the hassle and time it takes to cast them all.