Logging off and on "en-masse" at Trelleborg

[makarios68]

An army that collectively logs off en-masse at a fort and logs on again behind the enemy to surprise them is surely an incident of mass cheating right?

I think it is; what does everyone else think?

I have witnessed this happening at Trell twice with the greens, and other players have told me about more incidents of it.

If it is cheating, i'm not sure what can be done about it, but IMO it should not be allowed to happen.

I mean, since when was it a legimate battlefield tactic for an army to log out of the world and log back in by surprise behind the enemy?...

[DkySven]

I saw the greens doing this myself. I swear that the same people Is aw fleeing inside the fort(not only hunters) suddenly attacked us in our back when we broke the gate and you are not able to move under stalker, nor there is a mass-camouflage.

[Heglin]

I've seen it happen too and the only way to fix it is to prevent logout inside forts. Then they have to come out and face the risk of getting killed to logout.

What's the next lame idea some crap player decides to try? If ppl can't play fair then they should play a single player game!

[Emmery]

I too have witnessed that as well but I don't think its a priority for NGD even if the whole realm of Alsius were to complain... such a nasty little trick those guys are pulling :ranting:

[Kittypretty]

i think its shoddy server performance, i myself lagg out which places u behind the fort, and ive also seen clan mates, others doing the same thing. hear it in general chat all the time "F*CKING lag" they all scream, and besides, for most (not all) if I even WERE to actually use this as a viable technique, id have to load every model and the lag would be horrendous. thats the reason why i dont go to forts often, because it either means mass lag or mass disconnects.

been times at stone where ive seen ignis people just standing there, same with me..both under rez dizzy, not being able to move because its simply too much going to to process it that quick.

nice strategy...


seriously doubt theyd take the time to log out in the safety of a fort, lose valuable time in protecting such fort to do so, then submitting themself to the log in dizzy which will surely wear out before your player can be in a usable state, plus buffs, plus co ordinate, and then put themselves out in the open, instead of the clear advantage of the fort.

[Dee-luxX]

seriously doubt theyd take the time to log out in the safety of a fort, lose valuable time in protecting such fort to do so, then submitting themself to the log in dizzy which will surely wear out before your player can be in a usable state, plus buffs, plus co ordinate, and then put themselves out in the open, instead of the clear advantage of the fort.

What he says.

For me it takes from 15secs (in the middle of nowhere) to a minute (central save/main fort) to be able to even cast my first buff, so looging of in the midle of the battle its really not an option.

[Wyatt]

NGD Should remove the possibility of logging off in a fort/castle.

That will stop ppl from doing that.

[fluffy_muffin]

NGD Should remove the possibility of logging off in a fort/castle.

That will stop ppl from doing that.
How? You can crash client. Same effect.

[Miraculix]

It is mostly used to escape:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=25621

I've never seen an offensive mass logout so far :p

[Wyatt]

How? You can crash client. Same effect.

Well I am sure ngd will think of something, they always do.

@Miraculix:
It is mostly used to escape:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=25621

I've never seen an offensive mass logout so far

I already explained in that topic what happened in my point of view of the way I saw things. I did not abuse any bug/cheats of the game or "lame cheating Tactic" to escape.

Only Thing I used was camoflauge to escape while i was inside the castle, which is clearly legal to do.

And Max Payne did indeed crash, not that it matters anymore.



(Just to get things cleared out, I only quoted this because you put the link).

[Miraculix]

Well I am sure ngd will think of something, they always do.




I already explained in that topic what happened in my point of view of the way I saw things. I did not abuse any bug/cheats of the game or "Tactic" to escape.

Only Thing I used was camoflauge to escape while i was inside the castle.

And Max Payne did indeed crash, not that it matters anymore.



(Just to get things cleared out, I only quoted this because you put the link).

Weird how he crashed the same time you ""camo'ed"" and re-logged at the same time you ""un-camo'ed"". Very convenient wasn't it? How some completely random event like crashing resembled so closely some well known game exploit. You must be a very unlucky guy to get this sort of randomness happening.

[Wyatt]

Weird how he crashed the same time you ""camo'ed"" and re-logged at the same time you ""un-camo'ed"". Very convenient wasn't it? How some completely random event like crashing resembled so closely some well known game exploit. You must be a very unlucky guy to get this sort of randomness happening.

I know exactly what I did which I already explained.

Did you even see me un-camoed? totally weird, I uncamoed about 100mts away from the castle and you was no way near me.

By the time i reached the swamp you guys captured eferias, so again, i did not abuse any exploit/bug nor do i need to because I find that LAME and I always report every bug I find.

I am not gonna bother to reply again. Just entered the topic again to defend myself.



Regards.

[Miraculix]

Did you even see me un-camoed?

yeap. or actually, not un-camo, just appear there, where the login spot is for ppl who logout from inside eferias. You say it is un-camo, sure, why not. Another convenient coincidence.

tally weird, I uncamoed about 100mts away from the castle and you was no way near me.

not really, unless the login spot is 100 meters away from eferias and totally out of my field of view when i'm standing close to the gate.

By the time i reached the swamp you guys captured eferias, so again, i did not abuse any exploit/bug nor do i need to because I find that LAME and I always report every bug I find.

I'm sure you do, this was obviously all just a big succession of very convenient coincidences.


I am not gonna bother to reply again. Just entered the topic again to defend myself.

Probably the best thing to do for yourself right now. These posts will probably get deleted very fast as well, maybe even as fast as the topic where I mentioned the incident was locked.

[makarios68]

The last few posts are off-topic and should have been PM's.

Logging out and back in at forts DOES happen collectively with the aim of giving an unfair advantage.

For those who have given the benefit of the doubt to the perputrators, i know what i saw: the fort fight went quiet, and then the players we were fighting to the front suddenly appeared behind us en-masse - not just a few who experienced lag.

For those who think it is no big deal, try fighting at trell save for half hour against 3 times your number, eventually pushing them back to the fort and fighting them there for another half hour. Then, just as you push them inside the fort and you think you are finally winning, they appear behind you and gain the advantage of surprise...

[Dee-luxX]

For those who think it is no big deal, try fighting at trell save for half hour against 3 times your number, eventually pushing them back to the fort and fighting them there for another half hour. Then, just as you push them inside the fort and you think you are finally winning, they appear behind you and gain the advantage of surprise...

I've went to many trelle fights (though i hate the save camping is actually the main war area these days, algaros/trelle) and i assure i've never even read people trying to organize a massive logg off for gaining advantage. And if you think it through, its almost impossible to make 30 people stay at the fort, imagine trying to make them logg off-logg back on just to "ambush" (thinking you have to cast all your defense and ofense buffs again) the poor 3 goats there standing.

Think you're familiar with stalker so im ditching that option, but have you?.

Another option is that they where all for the same clan, but if you couldn't tell, then im not gonna push forward with this idea.

EDIT: for example, the next thread i have open is about Thanus saying how the server is kicking people from spain randomly http://www.regnummmorpg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29307 (spanish).

[Nekudotayim]

NGD Should remove the possibility of logging off in a fort/castle.

That will stop ppl from doing that.

First, it sounds like a good idea but in the end it won't change anything, because you also have to think about people, who are having a crash for example. Also, you could use the TaskManager to close the application. So this won't be the ultimate solution.

[Comp]

I've went to many trelle fights (though i hate the save camping is actually the main war area these days, algaros/trelle) and i assure i've never even read people trying to organize a massive logg off for gaining advantage. And if you think it through, its almost impossible to make 30 people stay at the fort, imagine trying to make them logg off-logg back on just to "ambush" (thinking you have to cast all your defense and ofense buffs again) the poor 3 goats there standing.

Think you're familiar with stalker so im ditching that option, but have you?.

Another option is that they where all for the same clan, but if you couldn't tell, then im not gonna push forward with this idea.

EDIT: for example, the next thread i have open is about Thanus saying how the server is kicking people from spain randomly http://www.regnummmorpg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29307 (spanish).


Actually I was there.....and the entire army (minus about 4 or so) went into the fort then re-appeared behind us from the rock outside of the fort (area where you respawn when you re-log). The number was about 20'ish....yes crappy tactics but they did it cause nothing stopped em. Same as when people use to crash during fights....

[magnet]

I guess it's not cheating, it's merely lame. Out of all the cheaters (through actual cheat or exploiting flawed aspects of the game) I think top 5 have ever been punished by NGD. Also, this is not more of a cheat than using SotW or using a horse to escape: just a flawed design. So my advice when you suffer from such enemies is to just ignore it, and laugh at their pathetic lack of honor :p.

On the so called "solution" of preventing people from logging-out in forts, as it has been pointed, the question is "what happens when you crash"? The obvious possibilities are:
1) sent back to save: easy way to escape
2) out of the fort: current solution (way to escape and to ambush)
3) stay in fort (like previously): easy way to recapture

All suck.

My personal solution is easy:
- if a player logs out in the fort of his realm and the fort is still of his realm when he comes back... log back in fort
- if a player logs out in the fort of his realm and the fort is not of his realm when he comes back.. log back outside the fort
- if a player logs out in a fort of another realm, he will log back inside if he logged out in the last 5 minutes and outside if he logged out more than 5 mins ago (so keep guard of forts for 5 mins to avoid recapture) ; alternate solution: if he logs out in a fort of another realm, he will give his amount of Rps to all enemies in the fort zone and be sent back to the save with necrostacy :p.

Easy, prevents most exploits.

I'm sure that in 6 months or one year NGD will realize that the fort loggout 'solution' was half-assed and do something about it so no worries and keep hope :).

[Nekudotayim]

An easy solution could be: when you get disconnected from the server (logout, crash, whatever) while being inside of a fort/castle then you will get logged in at the usual position but with almost no mana and, say, only 50% health.

This would pretend such people from doing something stupid like this.

[e30G]

My personal solution is easy:
- if a player logs out in the fort of his realm and the fort is still of his realm when he comes back... log back in fort
- if a player logs out in the fort of his realm and the fort is not of his realm when he comes back.. log back outside the fort
- if a player logs out in a fort of another realm, he will log back inside if he logged out in the last 5 minutes and outside if he logged out more than 5 mins ago (so keep guard of forts for 5 mins to avoid recapture) ; alternate solution: if he logs out in a fort of another realm, he will give his amount of Rps to all enemies in the fort zone and be sent back to the save with necrostacy :p.

Good solutions! I like all of them except the part that gives you necro. It would really suck if your game just crashed.

[Znurre]

Logging out inside a fort should give you 50% necro :devil:

[Mikan]

The best solution will always be to simply spawn all players at a save point at login. This would encourage the use of alternate save points and solve 99% of the problems related to logging out as a cheat.

Regnum Online is one of the few games I have seen where you are able to log off anywhere. In fact, most games don't even allow you to log off anywhere except at a save point. That's generally what they are for.

But in order for this to be implemented, the game must first be stable enough to (almost) never crash.

Other than that, I like magnet's suggestions.

Regards.

[e30G]

The game shouldn't drop in fps over time as well. IMHO this is the #1 reason why anyone will need to relog so often.

[makarios68]

I like Magnet's solutions...

[Nekudotayim]

if a player logs out in the fort of his realm and the fort is still of his realm when he comes back... log back in fort
- if a player logs out in the fort of his realm and the fort is not of his realm when he comes back.. log back outside the fort
- if a player logs out in a fort of another realm, he will log back inside if he logged out in the last 5 minutes and outside if he logged out more than 5 mins ago (so keep guard of forts for 5 mins to avoid recapture) ; alternate solution: if he logs out in a fort of another realm, he will give his amount of Rps to all enemies in the fort zone and be sent back to the save with necrostacy :p.

Easy, prevents most exploits.

This is not a good solution. Above all the first point. There are players, who relog just to be able to use some skills again. For example Warlocks, who don't like to wait three minutes to be able to use Sultars Terror again. Logging such players back into the fort they are defending right now will just support their bad behavior.

My suggestion would also prevent this.

[_dracus_]

I guess it's not cheating, it's merely lame. Out of all the cheaters (through actual cheat or exploiting flawed aspects of the game) I think top 5 have ever been punished by NGD. Also, this is not more of a cheat than using SotW or using a horse to escape: just a flawed design. So my advice when you suffer from such enemies is to just ignore it, and laugh at their pathetic lack of honor :p.


I almost agree, except the fact that SotW is made to escape it gives speed and evasion. Wudy use it really nicely to escape (I suppose escapist, SotW, and mobility). I'm not always successful with this but at least if people follows me it buys some time for my friends.


My personal solution is easy:
- if a player logs out in the fort of his realm and the fort is still of his realm when he comes back... log back in fort
- if a player logs out in the fort of his realm and the fort is not of his realm when he comes back.. log back outside the fort
- if a player logs out in a fort of another realm, he will log back inside if he logged out in the last 5 minutes and outside if he logged out more than 5 mins ago (so keep guard of forts for 5 mins to avoid recapture) ; alternate solution: if he logs out in a fort of another realm, he will give his amount of Rps to all enemies in the fort zone and be sent back to the save with necrostacy :p.

I like it (maybe no necro).

[_dracus_]

This is not a good solution. Above all the first point. There are players, who relog just to be able to use some skills again. For example Warlocks, who don't like to wait three minutes to be able to use Sultars Terror again. Logging such players back into the fort they are defending right now will just support their bad behavior.

My suggestion would also prevent this.

I have a fix for that, don't reset cooldown on logout. They do that in WoW. All buffs are still active when you relog.

[Nekudotayim]

I have a fix for that, don't reset cooldown on logout. They do that in WoW. All buffs are still active when you relog.

Yes, of course this should be implemented in every mmorpg but I don't think NGD likes to extend their database and to raise traffic in order to store these data because of the performance problems they had several times. (It is not a reset at all. It is just not stored in the database.)

[_dracus_]

Yes, of course this should be implemented in every mmorpg but I don't think NGD likes to extend their database and to raise traffic in order to store these data because of the performance problems they had several times. (It is not a reset at all. It is just not stored in the database.)

It would only affect login. But yes NGD should work on the architecture really hard if they want the game to grow.

[magnet]

This is not a good solution. Above all the first point. There are players, who relog just to be able to use some skills again. For example Warlocks, who don't like to wait three minutes to be able to use Sultars Terror again. Logging such players back into the fort they are defending right now will just support their bad behavior.

My suggestion would also prevent this.

This is a separate problem that was always present (and still exists). You don't seem to be aware that before, players relogged in forts, and it was changed only because of recapture exploits; not cooldown problems (and all classes have long cooldown spells).

I have proposed a solution regarding the cooldown/health/mana relog exploit at least one year ago -- and surprisingly it was never even acknowledged by NGD. This is the solution used by most MMOs and the most logical solution: when you log out, the game stores your HP, mana and spells on cooldown (and seconds left), and when you log back in those are restored to the state of your logout. An alternate (and equally good) solution for cooldown is to have them run even if you are logged out (the only exploit is to come every 3 minutes for your area but that's really stupid and can be done already anyway).

At the time some of the answers were already "it will increase lag" or "overload their database", but this is really a joke. It is insignificant.

On the other hand, I think your 'solution' is ad-hock and a badly thought hack (maybe NGD will use it, since it is the kind of solution they usually go for). It doesn't take crashes into account, and most of all, it is unbalanced for conjurers (and whether you have conjurers) or evasive Archers (SotW or Stalker and why would they care?); it is completely artificial.

This is supposedly a persistent game, HP/mana should be treated persistently like in any decent game. Ultima Online had this right more than ten years ago, I can't really believe there can be a debate on this...

[Nekudotayim]

It would only affect login. But yes NGD should work on the architecture really hard if they want the game to grow.

It would affect the entire gameplay. Every time you cast a spell, the timestamp related to each spell has to be stored to the database. So next time you login, all these timestamps of all the spells your character currently owns will be loaded to your client. Related to the current timestamp you can calculate, how much time is left until each spell is recharged. If this value is lesser than or equals zero, then the spell is available again, otherwise you know how much time is left for the spell to recharge. Depending on this you can also initialize all spells, which have been active, when you logged out last time.

@magnet

Yes, I agree that your solution is the better one. I just do not wish this to be implemented as long as NGD has not introduced the storage of the current state of your spells. That is why I denied it.

[chassor]

This is not a good solution. Above all the first point. There are players, who relog just to be able to use some skills again. For example Warlocks, who don't like to wait three minutes to be able to use Sultars Terror again. Logging such players back into the fort they are defending right now will just support their bad behavior.

My suggestion would also prevent this.

hey be serious this is same as logging in forts to attack from behind!
if spells have cooldowns this is to make the game more balanced , imagine 3 warlocks in the fort if they do that they can spell sultar every 15-20 sec if they coordinate!

this is cheating too !

i can understand when conjus do that, near bridges to revive more people before the next fight (just because big battles are fun) but logging of in fort just to recharge a super spell is as lame as disco to attack on back !