3 hit kill!!!

[Leg_The_Marks]

WTF!!! i cant belive that i just received a 1575 critical, a 904 balestra( lvl 4) and a 1028 gutting(lvl 1). Why do we get to lvl 50? So we can be killed like a lvl 5?

DO YOU THINK THIS IS NORMAL?

[-Edge-]

Either spells that make barbarias hit high are softened, or constitution needs more value,

I find the fact a mage has around 2-3k HP very disturbing.

[Pizdzius]

gutting 1 for so high? that's ridiculous

[-Edge-]

gutting 1 for so high? that's ridiculous
Gutting has 100% weapon damage on all levels,

though yeah its sick.

[Vroek]

You dont have a single defensive buff active, try using Acrobatics and Strategic position or evasive tactics.

[_dracus_]

I have some explaination: Soke was overbuffed. I guess:
- Berserk which removes a lot of protection and give -100% evasion
- Off with their heads.
- Maybe Onlsaught for first hit.
- Maybe weapon bless.

So he has less defense but can hurt you alot. Who are you attacking ? The PT barbarian. I mean it's your choice. You used escapist, but didn't get out of his range ? strange he has only a very slow weapon.

I don't hit that hard with my barb but without dangerous buff like berserk I can do 4 or 5 hit kills on marksman. What I mean is I don't see what is wrong, you can kill a barbarian pretty fast with DS and slow bow. We need very slow weapon and massive buff to do so.

[makarios68]

I don't have a problem with hits/crits and spells from a barb doing 1000-1500 dmg.

They have no/little range, limited protection and no 'immunity' spell so dmg is their trump card, just as the other classes all have their trump cards.

To get a crit hit of 1500 the barb must either have had a weapon buff from a conj or high lvl thirst for blood (or both). Crits of 1500 are the exception, not the rule.

The only problem i have with barbs is regarding the one spell that everyone complains about - south cross, with its up to 5k dmg and ridiculously low cooldown.

[Leg_The_Marks]

You dont have a single defensive buff active, try using Acrobatics and Strategic position or evasive tactics.

my bufs just went away. but i dont think that this is normal, i am a lvl 50 marksmen!!!, i have my armor points and my evade...

[Leg_The_Marks]

I don't hit that hard with my barb but without dangerous buff like berserk I can do 4 or 5 hit kills on marksman. What I mean is I don't see what is wrong, you can kill a barbarian pretty fast with DS and slow bow. We need very slow weapon and massive buff to do so.

i never made a 1k hit on a barb, and i have a slow bow, even if i have all my bufs on me i cant hit that hard! im mad because this made me feel like a lvl 5 in wz :S, not lvl 50

[Comp]

If he used berzerk u should have taken soke out....but I agree that lvl 1 hit is silly. I dance a jig when my dual shot hits for 400....

[Angelwinged_Devil]

change your tactics, level 50 doesn't make you a "god"

I see you only used winter stroke as a cc spell.

But yes, a barbs damage is way off

[-Drv-]

You dont have a single defensive buff active, try using Acrobatics and Strategic position or evasive tactics. buffs wear off when you die
and even if you have all defence casted a barbarian is really dangerous in a melee fight, so you could use all the spell you have to keep it away from you (lightning arrow, winter stroke, ambush, stunning fist, escapist) and if you are unlucky and you can't avoid melee you have retailation, escapist and sotw.

archers (not only marksmen) can't complain atm.

[dani-o]

where are your tricks? ambush and stunning fist, you must play with your range berserk = -100% evasion and -100% protection, you could kill him before he reache you.

pardon for killing your languaje

[DkySven]

You think that's worse? See this:
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5663/n3wu6.jpg

[Leg_The_Marks]

where are your tricks? ambush and stunning fist, you must play with your range berserk = -100% evasion and -100% protection, you could kill him before he reache you.

pardon for killing your languaje
i have 2 bars of spels, not only one. my point was on the damage not my spels or my tactics!!!

[Leg_The_Marks]

change your tactics, level 50 doesn't make you a "god"

I see you only used winter stroke as a cc spell.

But yes, a barbs damage is way off
i dont want to be a god, i just think that a 1.5k hit is a huge hit even for a barb!

[Angelwinged_Devil]

i dont want to be a god, i just think that a 1.5k hit is a huge hit even for a barb!
so do I but it was a response to a line "I am lvel 50 not level 5" and some players thinks level 50 means "I am god, I am unbeatable" which that line reminded me of :)

[dani-o]

i have 2 bars of spels, not only one. my point was on the damage not my spels or my tactics!!!
my point was, berserker barb? penalize him to death.

[makarios68]

Anyone who plays barb will tell you that their barb dies a lot.

Their limited protection and lack of immunity spell makes them prime targets for ranged classes.

They can frequently die before landing a hit.

So once a barb manages to get through the dmg and control spells of the ranged classes, it is only right and proper that they do scary dmg.

You need to play a barb before you really appreciate how frustrating it can be having no range against the other classes with ranged dmg and control.

[Mattdoesrock]

Yesterday I was hit with a 2269 SC, when they *only* have weapon buffs on.

[_dracus_]

Honnestly thoses dmg seems hight but Ok for me since I'm pretty sure Soke use berserk and weapon buff. It costs mana, and protection.

Leg you can ask Compost, my barb hits also quite hight even on buffed archer without berserker. I mostly use Thrist for blood.
Leting a barbarian fight at close range is by the way a mistake. They are made to own at melee and Marks are made to own (at range).

All I know is that when playing a Marksman if i'm fighting far from ennemies I almost always win, otheriwse i'm going down slowly or fastly depends on mana, and buffs :)

[Foggia]

1st hit - onslaught - I bet, especially u seemed to be chased by this barb. This works like a charge and makes 1st hit extremely powerful, adding it was a critical hit I dont see anything strange here, if he used a berserker. Gutting lvl 1 doesnt differ too much from lvl 5. Actually most barbs use charges/gutting/forceful blows as regular hits, because its more convenient.
And with everything else I have to agree with Wudy - barbs die very often, they usually have to rely on others, they are targeted before any1 else (unless there is a mad warlock, who rushes in front line) and so on and so on. Personaly I find marks as hardest class to win with my barb - they use sotw, they have nasty tricks preventing me from attacking, they use sotw, they evade a lot, and, of course, they use sotw. And unstoppable madness lasts short and costs lots of mana.

(barbs have a ranged attack that routinely does 1000dmg+),

Never. At least not routinely. Spiritual blows for over 1k dmg are rare, and I've neither dealt nor been a victim of such spiritual. I'd actually disagree with most part of ur post, but this I just had to emphasise, since regular spiritual does not exceed 600-700 dmg for a 100% offensive berserker.

[Valorius]

Anyone who plays barb will tell you that their barb dies a lot.

Their limited protection and lack of immunity spell makes them prime targets for ranged classes.

They can frequently die before landing a hit.

So once a barb manages to get through the dmg and control spells of the ranged classes, it is only right and proper that they do scary dmg.

You need to play a barb before you really appreciate how frustrating it can be having no range against the other classes with ranged dmg and control.
I disagree.

Knights are slower (barbs are fastest class in regnum), have no ranged attack (barbs have a ranged attack that routinely does 1000dmg+), and have low damage(barbs do more than double the dmg of a knight, hit by hit).

A buffed/material wall/DI'd barbarian is an unstoppable killing machine, capable of taking out an entire party of lvl 50s. I've seen it done.

Barb damage is blatantly out of control, especially spiritual blow and SC. Barbs do have some very good protection spells as well, btw. I have seen my arrow dmg reduced all the way down to 80 per arrow against 'full defense' build barbarians.

[Znurre]

I disagree.

Knights are slower (barbs are fastest class in regnum), have no ranged attack (barbs have a ranged attack that routinely does 1000dmg+), and have low damage(barbs do more than double the dmg of a knight, hit by hit).

A buffed/material wall/DI'd barbarian is an unstoppable killing machine, capable of taking out an entire party of lvl 50s. I've seen it done.

Barb damage is blatantly out of control, especially spiritual blow and SC.Come out of your bubble.
I will gladly PvP you anytime only to prove you wrong about these thoughts...

[save_the_trees]

Come out of your bubble.
I will gladly PvP you anytime only to prove you wrong about these thoughts...

Hmmm Znurre I don't think that this is a good idea, you know I guess you won't change his opinion if he loses the pvp ... :D

[Valorius]

Come out of your bubble.
I will gladly PvP you anytime only to prove you wrong about these thoughts...
To prove what?

Nothing i stated can be proven/disproven by PvPing a hunter. I compared barbs to knights, and described their unstoppable nature when properly buffed by a conj and their own buffs.

What the heck does that have to do with a pvp with a hunter?

I do my 'pvp's 'for real', in the warzone, using a WZ build.

I hunt alone all the time...as you know....you ran into me at Pozo the other day, and i don't recall it going well for you. It was quite a shock, as i never see you running solo, you're always in a huge pack of goats attacking Syrtis central save.

But it still has nothing to do with the points i made, which compared Barbs to knights.

[Znurre]

To prove what?

Nothing i stated can be proven/disproven by PvPing a hunter.It certainly can.
You need to get out of your bubble and face reality, because only in your dreams barbarians can do range 10 attacks on 1000+ damage each hit.

I will gladly prove you wrong.

[-Edge-]

you ran into me at Pozo the other day, and i don't recall it going well for you.

thats... the POINT

Valorius, how can you call Spiritual Blow, the ONLY ranged move that a barbarian has overpowered? FFS man get a life! Everything is overpowered to you! The cooldown is fine, and its only 8 range, its used usually only 1 time in an actual situation. And thats when the target runs away on low hp, (aaaaaah its usually what finishes you yeah? so thats why its overpowered, because Valorius can't run away in peace)

[Angelwinged_Devil]

barbs are fastest class in regnum
I lol'd


So once a barb manages to get through the dmg and control spells of the ranged classes, it is only right and proper that they do scary dmg.

cc spells? Oh please madness takes care of that, the protection against cc spells are better than evade protection from sotw.

There's only slow spells to prevent him from going to you, anything else is a waste of precious mana

[Valorius]

thats... the POINT
I confused him before he cast any buffs and went SOTW. I cast Sudden strike, and then dirty fighting and took him apart with 350+ dmg regular hits, and then a few quick piggybacks once SOTW wore off. It wasn't a fair fight...he got totally punked. (his blatantly overpowered mindsquash could have worked, but i got lucky and resisted. Some other monkey hit me at Stone the other night with MS and wiped out mat wall 5, DI 4, Acrobat 5, spell elude 5, and SOTW 5 all in one swing...a 1100dmg mindsquash spell.)

Of course this is irrelevant to a discussion about barb damage. I can punk any class that badly if i make a good approach and confuse them unbuffed. It's what hunters do.

-------------------

Barbs are the fastest class in Regnum
I lol'd
You disagree?

It certainly can.
You need to get out of your bubble and face reality, because only in your dreams barbarians can do range 10 attacks on 1000+ damage each hit.

I will gladly prove you wrong.
I never said they could?

What are you talking about? Perhaps you should re-read my post.

[Roldier]

WTF!!! i cant belive that i just received a 1575 critical, a 904 balestra( lvl 4) and a 1028 gutting(lvl 1). Why do we get to lvl 50? So we can be killed like a lvl 5?

DO YOU THINK THIS IS NORMAL?

Jajjajajajajjajajajajajjajajajajjajajajjajajajajaj jajajaja xDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!


Poor Soke... Poor Soke.... He only attack (?)

[Valorius]

thats... the POINT

Valorius, how can you call Spiritual Blow, the ONLY ranged move that a barbarian has overpowered?
Because it is.

FFS man get a life! Everything is overpowered to you!
Personal attack.

The cooldown is fine, and its only 8 range, its used usually only 1 time in an actual situation. And thats when the target runs away on low hp, (aaaaaah its usually what finishes you yeah? so thats why its overpowered, because Valorius can't run away in peace)
Because it is.

Spear attacks are ranged attacks too, btw.

I have had many fights with barbs that last 2-3 minutes. In such fights barbs can cast Spiritual blow up to 6 times if they wish...for up to 1000+ dmg per attack. Overpowered. How NGD came up with the idea that the fastest class in the game should have a 1000+dmg ranged attack, but the slowest fighter class(and 2nd slowest class in game) should have no ranged attack, boggles the mind. Knights are the ones that should have spiritual blow, barbs should have no ranged attack but their spear and their massive speed.

[makarios68]

(barbs have a ranged attack that routinely does 1000dmg+), and have low damage(barbs do more than double the dmg of a knight, hit by hit).
To say that this is routine is a massive distortion of the facts.

Never once has my barb done this kind of dmg with spiritual blow.

Maybe one day he will on a DS'd target, but that does not make it routine.

Barb damage is blatantly out of control, especially spiritual blow and SC.
I agree about s/c - most people do. Spiritual blow, no way out of control.

Barbs do have some very good protection spells as well, btw. I have seen my arrow dmg reduced all the way down to 80 per arrow against 'full defense' build barbarians.
To do this a barb sacrifices dmg.



There is a simple reason you suffer badly from barbs and complain they are overpowered: it's because you use a no-pet set up.

Without a pet you will probably suffer from barbs more than any other class, because your trump card 'confuse' does little to affect their ability to fight.

Sure a barb can kill a pet quickly. But not before you ambush him, stun fist him and you and the pet have took much of his hp. With escapist and sotw you can finish him easily.

I have never had a big problem with barbs, and neither do the pet using hunters i know.

It's just you Val, or rather your set up. :)

It is not fair and is extrememely vain of you to call for a class to be nerfed because the set up you use is bad against it.

(BTW weren't you finished with the forums?)

[Znurre]

I never said they could?

What are you talking about? Perhaps you should re-read my post.I am talking about this, maybe you should re-read your own posts.
(barbs have a ranged attack that routinely does 1000dmg+) I assume you mean Spirtual Blow, because it's the only damaging attack we have with range, if you don't count the areas.
It can cause damage on range 10.5 if you use a spear.

I hope that you are aware of that the damage I cause to you when you are fully buffed will not exceed 500 damage/hit, which also applies to Spiritual Blow because it is 100% weapon damage, which is the same as your Ensnaring Arrows, which you can use more often and from range 30.

[Caelia]

Barbs are only the "fastest" in the game for 30 seconds at a time ._. And they can help allies become the "fastest" for the same amount of time. Hunters have a passive-never-runs-out speed boost lol

Barbs are meant to hit high. Every class has things they are good at and things they are bad against. It's crazy how everyone is accusing all the other classes of being overpowered. And quite tiring to read all of the rants and such haha

The beauty of Regnum is figuring out how to counter and overcome these things ^^ And if you can't do that....Deal with it =] (like evade rates/etc)

[-Edge-]

Overpowered. How NGD came up with the idea that the fastest class in the game should have a 1000+dmg ranged attack, but the slowest fighter class(and 2nd slowest class in game) should have no ranged attack, boggles the mind. Knights are the ones that should have spiritual blow, barbs should have no ranged attack but their spear and their massive speed.
Then you should just quit the game or play the overpowered class finnaly. Afaik the only class you've ever seriously layed hands on was the hunter. That makes your argument have little value, but NO, if Valorius insisits something is overpowered it MUST be overpowered. Almost everyone disagrees with it, but of course you must be right!

its IRRELEVANT to the topic. Do you own that word or something? Why don't you Copyright it.

This is irrelevant © Valorius Rageway 2008 to the topic!


Barbs are fast? Yeah, but you speak as if we ran at 50% speed 24/7 and had infinite mana


The beauty of Regnum is figuring out how to counter and overcome these things ^^ And if you can't do that....Deal with it =] (like evade rates/etc)
Thats totally right, there is no perfect setup for all classes, Valorius fails to see that, more over he's mad because the current setup he uses can't destroy his opponents at times.


It's just you Val, or rather your set up. :)

It is not fair and is extrememely vain of you to call for a class to be nerfed because the set up you use is bad against it.

Bingo

[...] It's what hunters do.

Errr you mean its what you do, or at least you try, then if you don't make it you start a thread how you died. So try again.

[Valorius]

To say that this is routine is a massive distortion of the facts.

Never once has my barb done this kind of dmg with spiritual blow.
I have screen shots if i go through them. It's not uncommon at all to get hit for 1000 dmg spiritual blow if you get caught unbuffed or mindsquashed and try to run.

There is a simple reason you suffer badly from barbs and complain they are overpowered: it's because you use a no-pet set up.
I have killed virtually every barb in regnum in 1 on 1s in my time playing, i don't know why you think i 'suffer badly' from them. They are my hardest class to face, but i still kill quite a few of them.

Without a pet you will probably suffer from barbs more than any other class, because your trump card 'confuse' does little to affect their ability to fight.
If you confuse a barb unbuffed, they're doomed, and very quickly with my setup. Ask Znurre.

Sure a barb can kill a pet quickly. But not before you ambush him, stun fist him and you and the pet have took much of his hp. With escapist and sotw you can finish him easily.
I see pets 1 hit killed by barbs every day in skirmishes. Before the pet lands a single blow. Ambush is resisted, and your pet is gone. And then you're just a very, very weak archer.

We have one lvl 50 barb in our clan in particular that openly ridicules pets.

I have never had a big problem with barbs, and neither do the pet using hunters i know.
I see pet using hunters get owned by our lvl 50 barbs in our clan every day. Several times. Albereth and Athena are both quite adept at the skill of killing pet using hunters.

It's just you Val, or rather your set up. :)
As i said, i kill lots of barbs in 1 on 1s and otherwise.

It is not fair and is extrememely vain of you to call for a class to be nerfed because the set up you use is bad against it.
It is extremely silly to assume that's the case since you really know very little about my setup, or how to play it.

And seriously, to deny that barbs are overpowered is to deny the sky is blue. All one need do is agree that SC is overpowered, and therefore by default, so are barbs.

Fastest class in game, hardest hitting class in game by far, with a devastating ranged attack, numerous massively powerful area attacks, numerous extremely powerful auras, and 90% knockdown resistance.....nah, what's overpowered about that.

(BTW weren't you finished with the forums?)
I recieved several PMs urging me to come back, and this thread was screaming for a dose of reality. The thread starter is absolutely right, barbs are totally over the top overpowered.

[Valorius]

blah blah blah
Yep, that about sums it up.

Play the game sometime sportsfan.

[Mattdoesrock]

And seriously, to deny that barbs are overpowered is to deny the sky is blue. All one need do is agree that SC is overpowered, and therefore by default, so are barbs.

Fastest class in game, hardest hitting class in game by far, with a devastating ranged attack, numerous massively powerful area attacks, numerous extremely powerful auras, and 90% knockdown resistance.....nah, what's overpowered about that.

For the love of god.

A) So all barbs use SC? I wasn't aware of this. I completely forgot the fact that even though I only have slashing at 8, and there nothing do not even possess level 1 SC.. I use it all the time! How stupid of me. Then there's Znurre, the biggest SC monkey of them all!

Every class has an overpowered spell.

B) Auras?? LOL. We don't have a *single* aura. We have two area buffs, Onslaught and Off with their heads.

[_dracus_]

I lol'd


cc spells? Oh please madness takes care of that, the protection against cc spells are better than evade protection from sotw.

There's only slow spells to prevent him from going to you, anything else is a waste of precious mana

Don't tell me you never use mind push ?

And for the reference Knights often kills barb in fights, because they just just block everything, and use faster weapon which permit them to hit way more often. If they time well the knock downs and dizzy it's hell.

[backe]

Wudy, your first post in this thread pretty much sums up the whole damn thing.:thumb_up:

To the rest of you, I don't really know how anyone can take Val seriously until he actually attempts playing another class. Every class in the game is more or less overpowered than a hunter in his eyes, so just give it a rest and he'll go away again.

On-topic and to the OP:
Sorry mate, its a tough break, but it happens to us all. He probably had embes for the first hit, and to your post after that, you can't expect to hit an armored target for 1k+ (although it happens).

[-Drv-]

i concur with wudy

face a barb isn't a problem, i could die, but i don't think i have not chance to win.
and when i use my hunter is even better.

reduce the base damage of the barbarians will be the really funny for every ranged class, is this the solution whose whines of their hits? how could a barbarian kill an archer doing less damage?

your point of view seems biased to me, valorius

[Valorius]

For the love of god.

A) So all barbs use SC? I wasn't aware of this. I completely forgot the fact that even though I only have slashing at 8, and there nothing do not even possess level 1 SC.. I use it all the time! How stupid of me. Then there's Znurre, the biggest SC monkey of them all!

Every class has an overpowered spell.
Barbs have a variety of wildly overpowered spell, which you've admitted yourself in other threads. Like Typhoon, 1400dmg area, for instance. And just because you personally don't use SC changes nothing. Lightning strike is also insanely good when cast by barbs. And then there's 1500hp normal attacks, spiritual blow, massive dmg/knock resistances, etc. A 'defensive' build barb is probably the hardest class of all for me to face. My arrows do about 80-100 dmg per shot vs those ones, and i have an extremely powerful bow, 2x deadly sight rings, and lvl 4 passive bow dmg.

B) Auras?? LOL. We don't have a *single* aura. We have two area buffs, Onslaught and Off with their heads.
You may quibble with terminology, but you obviously knew what i was talking about.

Both of those 'area buffs' are extremely powerful spells.


To the rest of you, I don't really know how anyone can take Val seriously until he actually attempts playing another class. Every class in the game is more or less overpowered than a hunter in his eyes, so just give it a rest and he'll go away again.
There have only been 10 gillion posters in 10 gillion threads to state barbs are overpowered. And blatantly so.

But hey, whatever.


your point of view seems biased to me, valorius
My opinion is extremely common.

Don't tell me you never use mind push ?

And for the reference Knights often kills barb in fights, because they just just block everything, and use faster weapon which permit them to hit way more often. If they time well the knock downs and dizzy it's hell.
Yeah, knights seem to do quite well vs barbs. Much better than most other classes do, for the reasons you listed.

So do some warlocks seem to fare well vs barbs, a class that, with the exception of a very few specific players, i find to be absolutely no challenge in 1 on 1s whatsoever. It takes 2 lvl 50 warlocks to equal the challenge that one 'elite' lvl 50 barb player poses vs my usual build type.

Of course how could i possibly know all that, having "only ever played a hunter"(which is not even remotely true, but i digress).

I mean, it's not like i've witnessed literally tens of thousands of battles of every possible force structure, scenario, and size in Regnum, and i'm sure being a clan leader who works constantly with all his lvl 50 players of all classes in discussions to make our team more efficient doesn't help one to understand the finer points and strengths of every class either....

Yes, that was sarcasm.

You guys can try to make this about me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that barbs are overpowered. A fact that is common knowledge.

[-Edge-]

Yep, that about sums it up.

Play the game sometime sportsfan.
Yep, thats about the best way to ignore the truth, to talk about other random crap

[_dracus_]

Speaking of defensive barbarian, you must be speaking of barbarians setup to resist to piercing damage (gryfo and lion armor) and blunt passive lvl 15 which permits to resist to piercing. And after you add classical defensive buff and don't use berserk which is THE buff that make barbarians hit very hight.

All that is the kind of setup i'm using. I know Mattdoesrock and Znurre also use thoses kind of setup. However we clearly made a choice to be efficient against pierce. So hunters are maybe thoses who suffer the most of thoses choice. But I can assure you that 1vs1 I can't defeat a warlock who knows how to play (Ask Arkenion how he does).

Back to hunters versus defensive barbarian. It's doable even without a pet. If barb reduce to much dmg you will be forced to use sudden strike (Wudy do that pretty well). If he use unstoppable (the buff looks like strategic position) don't try to knock him down but you can confuse him so that he can't run fast to catch you. And I'm sure every respectable hunter knows how to click on escapist or SotW to fight. You can almost always use stun fist as good defense.

And never forget to choose your fight, I always love hunter that attack me while fully buffed. I had a nice fight few days ago with Compost. I killed him once cowardly when he was kicking the ass to a syrtis hunter. Then quickly after I saw him camo while I was with the Zerg and decided to leave the Zerg to see if I could come up with a good fight. And it happened IMO sooner than expected by both because Compoudious pet appeared out of camo while i was recasting all my buffs after previous fight. For the history Compoudious defeated me, So i guess we can say he choose the good fight for him, he could have run but he got me fair and square.

And don't forget that game ain't supposed to be balanced class by class. Archers totally owns mage, Mage owns warrior (Zordak for president!), guess who owns archers ?

[Valorius]

And don't forget that game ain't supposed to be balanced class by class. Archers totally owns mage, Mage owns warrior (Zordak for president!), guess who owns archers ?
I don't agree with your characterizations.

No one "owns" archers with the possible exception of some specific warjurer builds, who you list as being "owned" by archers. The reason i say this is because when you say "archers" you are talking about both hunters and marksmen. The few classes that marks have big problems with, hunters don't, and vice versa.

I would say that most warlocks do not "own" fighters, but good/smart ones sure seem to. Your 'average' warlock is little more than a speed bump for a good/smart knight/barb.

The 'good/smart' part is the most important. By far. There are some players playing all classes that are easy rp, and there are some players playing all classes that are extremely tough to beat.

However, in the superbuffed environment of fort/large battles, certain classes are inherently far more powerful than others. It's plainly obvious.

Yep, thats about the best way to ignore the truth, to talk about other random crap
That's the way to set me straight Mr. Forum warrior. (sarcasm)

[-Edge-]

That's the way to set me straight Mr. Forum warrior. (sarcasm)
Well excuse me if you don't see me everday, see I don't play in the American timezone, I have an extensive programme from 8AM - 5PM, so I try to make the most of my time, more over I don't play on Ra anymore, but nonethless you still saw me last week anyway didn't you?

I don't agree with your characterizations.

No one "owns" archers with the possible exception of some specific warjurer builds, who you list as being "owned" by archers. The reason i say this is because when you say "archers" you are talking about both hunters and marksmen. The few classes that marks have big problems with, hunters don't, and vice versa.

I would say that most warlocks do not "own" fighters, but good/smart ones sure seem to. Your 'average' warlock is little more than a speed bump for a good/smart knight/barb.

The 'good/smart' part is the most important. By far. There are some players playing all classes that are easy rp, and there are some players playing all classes that are extremely tough to beat.

However, in the superbuffed environment of fort/large battles, certain classes are inherently far more powerful than others. It's plainly obvious.


Thats too bad, as a clan leader you should be open to all your members ideas, looks like its always about what you think though. Id say your half the hunter Dracus was, and he's already got great ideas and understanding for the warrior trees, hes openminded to ideas,

[Valorius]

Wake me when you've finished.

[-Edge-]

Wake me when you've finished.
Yeah see thats just the kind of response you make everytime someone makes an argument to you that you can't back up, if you want to make a point to someone try doing it thought valid arguments, an argument that shows to whom you are directly speaking to.

If you want to yawn to me everytime I say something your free to do it, or you could have a little more sense, but its your choice. Either way im finished with you, no one in the whole world could convice a stubborn mules ass like you. Probably not even your own mother, she has my pity.

[Valorius]

No son, it's how i respond to flaming babble, because trolls hate it.

You done yet? This was once a decent thread...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[DkySven]

I have killed virtually every barb in regnum in 1 on 1s in my time playing, ...
Then why are they overpowered?!

[Znurre]

Then why are they overpowered?!Because sometimes they manage to kill him, I mean, kill Valorius ?!
There must be something wrong, NERF! ;)

[-Edge-]

Because sometimes they manage to kill him, I mean, kill Valorius ?!
There must be something wrong, NERF! ;)
WHAT? Killing Valorius?! The hunter who plays in melee range?! Thats blasphemy! Someone nerf them! If you killed him it MUST have been a bug abuse or your whole class is overpowered for sure!

[RegnumIrae]

Search "Se vuelve injugable" with the forum searcher and check those screenshots :p

[Znurre]

Yes Irae, and I do agree with you that South Cross is overpowered.
But that does not make the barbarian class overpowered as well, this is what I hate with these whine posts, they generalize too much.

PS. Darkenden is almost as bad as Yoseba...

[fluffy_muffin]

Then why are they overpowered?!
OFC! He have to use overpowered spell to do that. And you know this spell have some epic fails!






Like 1 time on 100 :P

[-RedStar-]

All one need do is agree that SC is overpowered, and therefore by default, so are barbs.

There is the light!now i see knights are overpowered also!

[Angelwinged_Devil]

You disagree?

there's no disagreeing it depends on how you define it, let's do it like this.

Let's first take no trees levelled at all who's the fastest?
No one

Let's take all trees maxed but nothing casted who's the faster
Hunter

Now let's take all buffs casted and all speed spells at level 5, who's the faster?
Hunter


[QUOTE=gph]Don't tell me you never use mind push ?

I didn't :p you've seen me use it I think

[RegnumIrae]

Yes Irae, and I do agree with you that South Cross is overpowered.
But that does not make the barbarian class overpowered as well, this is what I hate with these whine posts, they generalize too much.

PS. Darkenden is almost as bad as Yoseba...

Ye, but its not only SC... For example, this morning I added 2 screenshots.. 2 riposts of 1600-1700 with cautel lvl 3, armour very good against piercing (all the armour) and deflect proyectiles at lvl 4

Or normal hits of 1200-1300 with spear. Me with cautel lvl 3 + all the armour very good against piercing. And I was hitting him for 200-300!

[Znurre]

That is because they are using Berserk, and yes, I agree that Berserks penalties are too low.
I made this post some time ago:

http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=23463

-100% protection, is devastating for a barbarian versus mages and archers, but not versus other warriors because their high damage hits were not reduced very much by the armor points anyway.

That's why I wanted to change it to -damage resistance instead.

[RegnumIrae]

That is because they are using Berserk, and yes, I agree that Berserks penalties are too low.
I made this post some time ago:

http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=23463

-100% protection, is devastating for a barbarian versus mages and archers, but not versus other warriors because their high damage hits were not reduced very much by the armor points anyway.

That's why I wanted to change it to -damage resistance instead.

Anyway, u can still use cautel and frenesi to gain that armour that u lost with berserk.

EDIT: Oh, and that -100% evasion is NOT working right now.

[Valorius]

WHAT? Killing Valorius?! The hunter who plays in melee range?!
All the good ones do.

there's no disagreeing it depends on how you define it, let's do it like this.

Let's first take no trees levelled at all who's the fastest?
No one

Let's take all trees maxed but nothing casted who's the faster
Hunter

Now let's take all buffs casted and all speed spells at level 5, who's the faster?
Hunter
Barbs are faster from point A to point B than any other class. I've chased enough of them to know, i assure you.

Ye, but its not only SC... For example, this morning I added 2 screenshots.. 2 riposts of 1600-1700 with cautel lvl 3, armour very good against piercing (all the armour) and deflect proyectiles at lvl 4

Or normal hits of 1200-1300 with spear. Me with cautel lvl 3 + all the armour very good against piercing. And I was hitting him for 200-300!
Touche'.

I got hit the other day for a 1100hp dmg mindsquasher. So not only did i lose all my buffs, but 1/3 of my life too....in ONE swing.

Nah, barbs aint overpowered......LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Barbs are faster from point A to point B than any other class. I've chased enough of them to know, i assure you.

then you're not doing it right ^^

[Znurre]

Barbs are faster from point A to point B than any other class. I've chased enough of them to know, i assure you.So, you cast all your speed buffs at once, thinking that the 150% speed cap does not apply to you?

[BlooD]

So, you cast all your speed buffs at once, thinking that the 150% speed cap does not apply to you?

Of course, also i dont see my hunter moving slower after i attack someone.

My barb does.

[Valorius]

And i don't see my hunter hitting an opponent with a 1000+ dmg ranged attack on a fleeing opponent like a barb can. Nor can a hunter knock down or freeze in place a DI'd and fleeing opponent, whereas a barb has several ways to do it.

DI offers about zero effective protection vs warrior classes, whereas it has a huge effect on a hunter because all the skills in tricks don't do any damage. Hell, a warrior can even cancel DI.

then you're not doing it right ^^
Chased many barbs with a hunter have you?

Oh, right...no, you haven't.

[BlooD]

But we were talking about speed, of course you dont want to talk about it anymore.

And DI its great vs melee classes, specially a barb, defaening roar, howl, feint....

[Valorius]

Of course, also i dont see my hunter moving slower after i attack someone.

My barb does. You're the one that changed the topic. In a discussion about running, what happens after you attack is not of relevance. If it is, then i am free to mention all the things that make up for that loss of speed after the barb attacks.


And DI its great vs melee classes, specially a barb, defaening roar, howl, feint.... DI cancelled by mindsquash-
DI offers no protection vs trip, riposte, balestra, thunderstrike, dismember limb, or for that matter any warrior knockdown-

DI is extremely limited in usefulness vs warriors, and particularly barbs. Even the gods cannot protect a player from a Barb.

[BlooD]

You're the one that changed the topic. In a discussion about running, what happens after you attack is not of relevance. If it is, then i am free to mention all the things that make up for that loss of speed after the barb attacks.
OF course it is, barb speed buff its canceled by the first attack.

So you use SoW or any spell who makes you evade that hit and oh surprise, he wasted 400 mana for nothing, if he uses an skill he wastes even more.

Werent you the SoW master tactician? They teach you that in 1º of evasion.


DI cancelled by mindsquash-
DI offers no protection vs trip, riposte, balestra, thunderstrike, dismember limb, or for that matter any warrior knockdown-

DI is extremely limited in usefulness vs warriors, and particularly barbs. Even the gods cannot protect a player from a Barb.
Disamber limb has no damage, so DI protects agains it, or against feint, the most used warrior knockdown.

Only thing barb has is too much normal damage and then too much damage in skills who make weapon damage, sadly most of them are.

As matter of fact, i killed that supremus overpowered sc barbs only with mana borrow, no mana means no sc. Use that tactic with steel skin and he will only hit you for 200 with very slows attacks.

Hell i killed pelicauthgar with only lvl 4 magic missile all the time.

[Enitharmon]

That is because they are using Berserk, and yes, I agree that Berserks penalties are too low.
I made this post some time ago:

http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=23463

-100% protection, is devastating for a barbarian versus mages and archers, but not versus other warriors because their high damage hits were not reduced very much by the armor points anyway.

That's why I wanted to change it to -damage resistance instead.

TRYING to get this thread on rails again to the very important point Znurre made here...
I do think however, that if Berserk was fixed to match the description, that would be enough, i.e.:

* -100% evasion: no evades at all
* -100% protection: meaning == 0, that is; any protection gained from caution or other +% spells/auras should null out. 0 + 80% = 0...

[Valorius]

TRYING to get this thread on rails again to the very important point Znurre made here...
I do think however, that if Berserk was fixed to match the description, that would be enough, i.e.:

* -100% evasion: no evades at all
* -100% protection: meaning == 0, that is; any protection gained from caution or other +% spells/auras should null out. 0 + 80% = 0...
Yeah, i agree, that would definitely help to get barbs back into the realm of mortals. ;)

[Mikan]

TRYING to get this thread on rails again to the very important point Znurre made here...
I do think however, that if Berserk was fixed to match the description, that would be enough, i.e.:

* -100% evasion: no evades at all
* -100% protection: meaning == 0, that is; any protection gained from caution or other +% spells/auras should null out. 0 + 80% = 0... The problem is that Barbarians already die fast enough as it is (sometimes in just a few hits even to archers). They need less damage and more defenses, not less defenses and keeping the same excessive levels of damage.

When you are left with only 60% or 70% armor (Caution LV3 or LV4) it isn't much, compared to the 170% that you would normally have without Berserk, and the +50% damage isn't that much either. I barely hit Forceful blow 1000 or South cross 1500-2000 with it, which isn't enough considering I practically kill myself using it.

It's similar to Master of doom in that regard, and Berserk Barbarians fall fast if you focus fire on them.

Those damages may seem like alot, until you consider the fact that we have to actually reach the enemy first (Onslaught can help alot here, but at the cost of 400 mana), then wait for the casting times on our damage spells without getting Mind pushed, knocked down, stunned or "Cannot attack" effect on us, and Unstoppable madness is not something that we can use all of the time either with it's mana cost of 300+ and high cooldown.

While I agree that Barbarian damage is currently too high, this is not a good solution.

Regards.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Chased many barbs with a hunter have you?

Oh, right...no, you haven't.
how do you know I haven't ^^?

Apparently you're the only hunter who seems to have trouble with this on these forums. But I'm going to backfire your argument against you, chased many hunters with your barb have you?


Unstoppable madness is not something that we can use all of the time either

use it at the right time :P



While I agree that Barbarian damage is currently too high

I do too, a normal hit though, unbuffed is ok imo, but buffed along with madness is really madness, and in the hands of a barb who knows how to play it's even tougher.

[ncvr]

* -100% protection: meaning == 0, that is; any protection gained from caution or other +% spells/auras should null out. 0 + 80% = 0...
Doesn't work that way.
First, the base armour is reduced to 0.
Next, 80% of the base armour is taken.
Last, whatever you came up with when you multiplied your base armour by 0.8 is added on.
So, for example, a barb has a base armour of 1000 (no, it's not going to happen, I chose 1000 cos its easy to do)
Cast Berserk and armour is reduced to 0.
Cast lvl 5 caution and the armour goes back up to 800.

[fluffy_muffin]

The problem is that Barbarians already die fast enough as it is (sometimes in just a few hits even to archers). They need less damage and more defenses, not less defenses and keeping the same excessive levels of damage.

They need less defence from low dmg hits. Come on yesterday barb reduced my dmg from 280 to 62 from medium 20m bow. My dmg on Yoseba was like on knight or full defense marks ~48.

[_dracus_]

I do too, a normal hit though, unbuffed is ok imo, but buffed along with madness is really madness, and in the hands of a barb who knows how to play it's even tougher.

You just need mind push against madness ... stop whining please and go ask arkenion how to do it.

[Wargirl]

Two hits killme :(
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2472/screenshot2008090614450cw6.jpg
Three hits killme ¬¬
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1746/screenshot2008082517112td3.jpg
Greetings :)
Pd:Sorry for my bad English xD

[ncvr]

You just need mind push against madness ... stop whining please and go ask arkenion how to do it.
There are *many* counters a barb has against Mind push.

[Vroek]

there are even more ways to drain a barbarians mana

[Znurre]

I want to add to the discussion...
So only because some barbarians buff up like insane and cast South Cross or Rippost you should nerf the barbarian itself?

There will still be these idiots buffing up like insane, causing - even if not as high damage - abnormally high damage compared to other classes.

It's like nerfing the base evasion of the hunter to get rid of SOTW problems, it just doesn't work!
I do not think that nerfing the base damage of the barbarian is the way to go, it will only bring less variety to the game.

For everyone who wants to know reality... this is a screenshot taken yesterday near Trelle save.
Hunter, buffed up with acrobatics.
I can't see any normal hits for 1k here, can you?

[Pizdzius]

I can't see any normal hits for 1k here, can you?

I can't see any SC here xD

[makarios68]

I want to add to the discussion...
So only because some barbarians buff up like insane and cast South Cross or Rippost you should nerf the barbarian itself?

There will still be these idiots buffing up like insane, causing - even if not as high damage - abnormally high damage compared to other classes.

It's like nerfing the base evasion of the hunter to get rid of SOTW problems, it just doesn't work!
I do not think that nerfing the base damage of the barbarian is the way to go, it will only bring less variety to the game.

For everyone who wants to know reality... this is a screenshot taken yesterday near Trelle save.
Hunter, buffed up with acrobatics.
I can't see any normal hits for 1k here, can you?
Znurre is right.

This is the dmg many barbs commonly deal out (mine for sure).

The insane dmg that occasionally gets reported on here is done with beserk and colossus and other dmg buffs, by barbs whose only tactic is to do as much dmg as possible.

So clearly the way to go is not to nerf the base dmg of barbs, but to put proper penalties on these high dmg buffs, and of course to nerf s/c.

[Znurre]

I can't see any SC here xDExactly!
So the problem is not with the barbarian - it is with South Cross!

[Pizdzius]

Exactly!
So the problem is not with the barbarian - it is with South Cross!

SC + barbs, that's what I say. SC was made for knights imho so they actually can deal damage :p

[Angelwinged_Devil]

You just need mind push against madness ... stop whining please and go ask arkenion how to do it.
I do use mind push, please stop flaming and don't call me a noob. There is a counter against mind push


there are even more ways to drain a barbarians mana

you don't have a lot of time to steal mana really...

[Znurre]

SC + barbs, that's what I say. SC was made for knights imho so they actually can deal damage :pSorry Piz, but I think you are wrong.

SC is wrong in the hands of a knight too because this class is not intended to deal damages high as 2k dmg.
It's just that you overlook this issue because it is not as high damages as the ones caused by a barb, but the problem is still there.
I have seen several knights that manages just fine without South Cross, as I have seen barbs that does.

South Cross is overpowered in the hand of any class, because it gives 125% more damage than your base damage and then it does not matter what base damage you have because the spell itself is overpowered!

[_dracus_]

There are *many* counters a barb has against Mind push.

Oh explains all the way because it's not clear to me ...

[_dracus_]

I do use mind push, please stop flaming and don't call me a noob. There is a counter against mind push


you don't have a lot of time to steal mana really...

No there is not ... NOOB.

[ncvr]

Deafening Roar, Howl.

[Pizdzius]

Of course I am wrong, it's just my point of view :p
Still, a gutting lvl 1 shouldn't hit for over 1k. None lvl 1 skill should hit that high

[_dracus_]

Deafening Roar, Howl.

AHAHAHA.

And sultar's terror is a counter to SC ?
Nothing counter mind push that's all.

[Znurre]

Of course I am wrong, it's just my point of view :p
Still, a gutting lvl 1 shouldn't hit for over 1k. None lvl 1 skill should hit that highAnd that is not a problem with gutting, it is a problem with Berserk.
Gutting lvl 1 is like a normal hit, 100% damage + 50 damage.

The problem here is Berserk which enables the barbarian to reach such crazy hits, but also remember that a barbarian using Berserk is not hard to kill for an archer who is playing good.

Conclusion: people just look to the advantages of this spell, they don't see the huge disadvantages it has against archers and mages.

[ncvr]

AHAHAHA.

And sultar's terror is a counter to SC ?
Nothing counter mind push that's all.
With your reasoning nothing counters Soulkeeper.

[Znurre]

With your reasoning nothing counters Soulkeeper.Yes... one thing can counter Soulkeeper... Retaliation.

[ncvr]

Retaliation counters every damage spell.

Besides, you know what I mean...you can't compare mind push to terror or sc.

[save_the_trees]

I suddenly thought about a new way to go: instead of nerving barbs, give all warriors a cheap and long lasting buff which limits the damage taken per hit to for example 1000 or 1300 or whatever. This way, spells like SC would be still attractive but since you can't deal a 4k SC to a knight anymore, only barbs specialized in killing mages/archers would still continue to use berserk/colossus. But then they would be even weaker against other warriors since they would have neither high dmg nor tactical spells. Apart from that this measure would protect the barb vs very lucky Marksmen with lethal strike lv 5, something like 2k dmg from barely in sight range is really overpowered ... :p

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Yes, a such spell would be overpowered in the hands of a mage too.
I don't see why :p, a mage doesn't get much of boosting his staff unless he could boost up spells :D

Nothing counter mind push that's all.
onslaught, spring ^^

[_dracus_]

Retaliation counters every damage spell.

Besides, you know what I mean...you can't compare mind push to terror or sc.
I compare mindpush to madness because some warlock in syrtis seems to be the only one not understanding how to counter madness. That's all final point, you both lost.

I don't see why :p, a mage doesn't get much of boosting his staff unless he could boost up spells :D

onslaught, spring ^^ Failed again

150% -50% = 75% ...

And more fail, a single energy borrow lvl or more can just stop madness + onslaught. lvl madness is 450 mana, lvl 5 onslaught is 400 mana. Barbarian level 50 have around 1200 to 1400 mana. It's more than half of their mana, just drain mana and life from them and you will never have thoses problem you are talking about.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I compare mindpush to madness because some warlock in syrtis seems to be the only one not understanding how to counter madness. That's all final point, you both lost.
let's see
slow
damage reduction
cannot attack
mana drain
str debuff

random order

Got anything else in mind ^^?

[DkySven]

let's see
slow
damage reduction
cannot attack
mana drain
str debuff

random order

Got anything else in mind ^^?
Wait... You say barbs are overpowered because you can't stop them and now you have a list of spells which you can use to stop them?! Something here seems wrong to me.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Wait... You say barbs are overpowered because you can't stop them and now you have a list of spells which you can use to stop them?! Something here seems wrong to me.
I said they hit too high... and that I know how to fight them

[backe]

I suddenly thought about a new way to go: instead of nerving barbs, give all warriors a cheap and long lasting buff which limits the damage taken per hit to for example 1000 or 1300 or whatever. This way, spells like SC would be still attractive but since you can't deal a 4k SC to a knight anymore, only barbs specialized in killing mages/archers would still continue to use berserk/colossus. But then they would be even weaker against other warriors since they would have neither high dmg nor tactical spells. Apart from that this measure would protect the barb vs very lucky Marksmen with lethal strike lv 5, something like 2k dmg from barely in sight range is really overpowered ...
I like this idea quite a lot. This would prevent knight damage from being reduced (yet again) while dramatically increasing their defenses against this sort of barb build. Perhaps it can replace martial defense. This and the proposed change to berserk would go a long way to balance the extreme damage we are seeing these days. I would say, that there are going to be issues with placing the upper-end of damage with this spell however. Perhaps it should be based on the lvl of the skill?

so lvl 1-5 2500,2200,1900,1600,1300? This could also benefit knights more than barbs, as they tend to put more points into the tactics skill tree.

[Miraculix]

Great, now barbs will deal 5k SC to everyone else but they themselves will be protected from it.

WTF ppl.

[backe]

Great, now barbs will deal 5k SC to everyone else but they themselves will be protected from it.

WTF ppl.

Come on. 5k is a bit of an exaggeration. Besides, the point is that it reduces the utility of a pure SC build which will in turn reduce the number of SC monkeys. The bottom line is that warriors have no choice but to fight in close quarters and because of this don't you think they should have an advantage in such cases? What would you consider more appropriate; reducing barbs base attack power, nerfing Berserk and Colossus? Both of these would easily turn barbs into shield-less, taxi-driving knights without auras. The main problem with reducing the base damage of barbs is our attack speed is HORRIBLE, not to mention that barbs simply don't have the variety of weapon speeds that other classes have. You can be very slow, slow, or a half-assed "medium" if you choose to spend a bunch of points in 2handed to get thirst for blood to a high enough level to make a difference.

Also, the numbers I posted are just pulled out of thin air. I based it off the the level 3 1900 max damage figure, as 1900*2 (3800) is around the max life of a barb and most barbs usually run tactics at 11. I've never been killed in one hit, but in 2, plenty of times. Most of the really nasty SC's I've seen have been around 2.5k (this includes Yoseba's, I don't know if I caught him on a bad day, or if he had been debuffed). So the reality of it is, that at level 3 the addition of this skill really doesn't change much at all for barbs. Even at lvl 4, 2 SC's would still pretty much clean up a barb. The difference is that knights would have a much better chance of surviving if this skill were in place due to the increased quantity of hit points and the likelihood of blocking a 3rd or even 4th SC.

Any idea of these changes would, of course, be in no way shape or form a replacement to a nerf in the SC and ripost cool-down (which IMO is one of the most badly needed changes right now).

Edit:
Hell, maybe even replace this skill with one of the bugged ones in vanguard? Think thats been proposed before, but its still a good idea, IMO.

[Miraculix]

I never said reducing barb base attack was the way to go. I said SC-immunity to barbs is not the way to go.

Moving SC to a knight only tree and giving barbs some other spell like an attack speed bonus is imo a much better solution.

[backe]

Sorry mate, I still fail to see how this would be immunity.

The problem would then be that the slash skill-tree would be more or less useless. It already has a totally worthless dex passive, crash, fatal strike, and disable limb (which is nowhere near as useful as balestra, IMO, as it can be defeated by DI). If SC was moved to a knight tree would it also be weapon specific? Would you put it in vanguard? Besides, if you removed SC then you would begin to see ridiculous riposts as these SC-spec barbs would simply switch to pierce weapons.

[Pizdzius]

I never said reducing barb base attack was the way to go. I said SC-immunity to barbs is not the way to go.

Moving SC to a knight only tree and giving barbs some other spell like an attack speed bonus is imo a much better solution.

There are SCknightonlybelievers and there are the others. XD

[Valorius]

The problem is that Barbarians already die fast enough as it is (sometimes in just a few hits even to archers).
Simply not true. The only way a lvl 50 barb could be killed in a 'few' archer shots is if it was 3 rep shot lvl 5s.

Even a lvl 50 marksman requires numerous attacks and debuffs to kill a barb.

how do you know I haven't ^^?

Apparently you're the only hunter who seems to have trouble with this on these forums. But I'm going to backfire your argument against you, chased many hunters with your barb have you?
Yep. Bowvyn, Athena, and Albereth are 'my' barbs. I've chased barbs and hunters side by side with them many times. What's more, i know just from playing experience that it is much easier to catch a hunter than a barb.

I should arrange a straight up point A to B race with one of them just to settle this matter of which class is faster definitively.

Doesn't work that way.
First, the base armour is reduced to 0.
Next, 80% of the base armour is taken.
Last, whatever you came up with when you multiplied your base armour by 0.8 is added on.
So, for example, a barb has a base armour of 1000 (no, it's not going to happen, I chose 1000 cos its easy to do)
Cast Berserk and armour is reduced to 0.
Cast lvl 5 caution and the armour goes back up to 800.
Which means the actual effective penalty for casting berserk is quite minimal wrt armored protection.

They need less defence from low dmg hits. Come on yesterday barb reduced my dmg from 280 to 62 from medium 20m bow. My dmg on Yoseba was like on knight or full defense marks ~48.
Yep, absolutely agreed.

Barbarian defense is far too much when weighed against the damage they can inflict. Especially considering their speed and potential 90% knockdown resist.

They should either do significantly less damage (the problem goes far beyond SC. 1100hp Mindsquashes, 1500hp lvl 1 ripostes, as high as 1500hp normal attacks...), or have significantly less damage resistance.


For everyone who wants to know reality... this is a screenshot taken yesterday near Trelle save.
Hunter, buffed up with acrobatics.
I can't see any normal hits for 1k here, can you?
That hunter may very well have had heroic presence, evasive tactics 5, acrobat 5, and material wall cast on him.

In fact he probably did.

Of course I am wrong, it's just my point of view :p
Still, a gutting lvl 1 shouldn't hit for over 1k. None lvl 1 skill should hit that high
Absolutely agreed.


The problem here is Berserk which enables the barbarian to reach such crazy hits, but also remember that a barbarian using Berserk is not hard to kill for an archer who is playing good.
Yeah, right....that same barb casts berserk in a battle and has knight blocking auras, heroic presence, and perhaps even material wall cast on him is a virtually invincible killing machine with 90% knockdown resist...even without DI.

Seriously...the problem with barbs goes far deeper than just SC.

[Znurre]

Which means the actual effective penalty for casting berserk is quite minimal wrt armored protection.Yeah, 100% less armor than usual...
Would you not thing it was a big deal to have -20% armor instead of +80% armor?
That hunter may very well have had heroic presence, evasive tactics 5, acrobat 5, and material wall cast on him.

In fact he probably did.I can assure you that he was not buffed with material wall.
He could have been under the effect of Heroic Presence, but I doubt that since there was no knight near as far as I could see.

Evasive Tactics - Probably.
Acrobatic - Yes, I saw it clearly.

But what's the big deal? On lvl 5 Acrobatic skill is duration/cooldown, so you can keep buffed all the time.
Evasive Tactics, if you choose to use it even because of the Hit Chance penalty, have only a 10 seconds gap between.

So this situation with Nizzan getting attacked by a barb could as well apply to you.
This is the truth Valorius... if the hunter is buffed with Acrobatics and maybe Evasive Tactics and the barbarian is not using Berserk, most barbarians will not cause more damages than this.

When I come home later today I will show you a screenshot of what damage a hunter can cause on a barbarian buffed with Berserk, Caution (4) and Frenzy (5)...

[_dracus_]

I never said reducing barb base attack was the way to go. I said SC-immunity to barbs is not the way to go.

Moving SC to a knight only tree and giving barbs some other spell like an attack speed bonus is imo a much better solution.

Totally disagree. Knights hitting for 1200 dmg with SC is same has barb hitting for more than 2000 dmg with SC or Ripost. It's insane.
Southcross and Ripost should only use unbuffed base attack to compute the dmg they deal. Same for Lethal Strike. All the more than 100% dmg +% chance should use only unbuffed base attack.
Maybe I'm saying something stupid but it's my opinion right now. If you have better ideas let me know.

[Znurre]

Totally disagree. Knights hitting for 1200 dmg with SC is same has barb hitting for more than 2000 dmg with SC or Ripost. It's insane.
Southcross and Ripost should only use unbuffed base attack to compute the dmg they deal. Same for Lethal Strike. All the more than 100% dmg +% chance should use only unbuffed base attack.
Maybe I'm saying something stupid but it's my opinion right now. If you have better ideas let me know.That is a good solution too.

[Pizdzius]

Totally disagree. Knights hitting for 1200 dmg with SC is same has barb hitting for more than 2000 dmg with SC or Ripost. It's insane.
Southcross and Ripost should only use unbuffed base attack to compute the dmg they deal. Same for Lethal Strike. All the more than 100% dmg +% chance should use only unbuffed base attack.
Maybe I'm saying something stupid but it's my opinion right now. If you have better ideas let me know.

So SC and lethal stike should be immune to buffs? hm.

[ncvr]

And ripost too, although that tends to do lower damage.

SC with a slow 2 handed sword unbuffed seems to do around 1.2k - 1.5k damage, which is far more appropriate but not underpowered IMO.

[Mattdoesrock]

Totally disagree. Knights hitting for 1200 dmg with SC is same has barb hitting for more than 2000 dmg with SC or Ripost. It's insane.
Southcross and Ripost should only use unbuffed base attack to compute the dmg they deal. Same for Lethal Strike. All the more than 100% dmg +% chance should use only unbuffed base attack.
Maybe I'm saying something stupid but it's my opinion right now. If you have better ideas let me know.

Now that is a fantastic idea.

[_dracus_]

And ripost too, although that tends to do lower damage.

SC with a slow 2 handed sword unbuffed seems to do around 1.2k - 1.5k damage, which is far more appropriate but not underpowered IMO.

Exactly a 1.5k dmg is already PITA. It's good that barbarian can hit as hard has that but honnestly 2k+ hits are ridiculous IMO.

[Valorius]

But what's the big deal? On lvl 5 Acrobatic skill is duration/cooldown, so you can keep buffed all the time.
Until you get mindsquashed, then that 2 minute cooldown is a death sentence.

This is the truth Valorius... if the hunter is buffed with Acrobatics and maybe Evasive Tactics and the barbarian is not using Berserk, most barbarians will not cause more damages than this.
When i'm fully buffed with my own self buffs, barb attacks(lvl 50) do between 550-800 per attack. If my evasive tactics is in cooldown, it can be more like 750-1000 per attack. If i get mindsquashed, normal attacks can exceed 1500dmg.

However, barbs that go "all out for offense", even vs acrobat 5, they can do 1300+ dmg with ease with skills like Balestra. Add in evasive tactics 5, and a max damage barbs balestra still does in the range of 700-900 dmg per hit, even on lvl 1.

Material wall is great...it can take that same 700-900hp hit and reduce it to about 500-600dmg...but a barb can counter that with mindsquash, which not even DI will protect you against.

Barbs are bad enough in 1 on 1s, but in large battles when they are superbuffed with auras, they're completely over the top.

I love shooting at a charging barb that's protected by heroic and blocking auras, becuase i love wasting money on EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE arrows that, when they're not blocked(which in fort wars about 80% of them are), do well under 100dmg to my enemy.
(text in green is sarcasm)

So SC and lethal stike should be immune to buffs? hm.
It would be easy to do. Just take them off a +% weapon damage scale and give them a fixed damage spell like meteor, golem fist, etc.

WAY too many barb attack skills are +% weapon dmg, so everything they do can potentially be a 1000+ dmg attack.

[Pizdzius]

It would be easy to do. Just take them off a +% weapon damage scale and give them a fixed damage spell like meteor, golem fist, etc.

WAY too many barb attack skills are +% weapon dmg, so everything they do can potentially be a 1000+ dmg attack.

I'd love NGD to take a look at that idea

[-Edge-]

I'd love NGD to take a look at that idea
Imo percents should be removed, everything only fixed damages,

only there seems to be some problem. We already have a skill like that without percents and fixed damage only, called Expanisve Wave, but it seems to do very little damage,

Why is the difference between a Level 1 Typhoon and a Level 5 one only about a 100 damage ratio?

On level 1 its 50 Slashing damage and 100% weapon damage, and on 5 its 400 (if im correct?) the damage is different,

This is also why you see alot of lvl 1 skills from barbarians, because theres no real difference, if NGD does want to do fixed damage it needs to be changed so it works.

[Znurre]

Imo percents should be removed, everything only fixed damages,

only there seems to be some problem. We already have a skill like that without percents and fixed damage only, called Expanisve Wave, but it seems to do very little damage,

Why is the difference between a Level 1 Typhoon and a Level 5 one only about a 100 damage ratio?

On level 1 its 50 Slashing damage and 100% weapon damage, and on 5 its 400 (if im correct?) the damage is different,

This is also why you see alot of lvl 1 skills from barbarians, because theres no real difference, if NGD does want to do fixed damage it needs to be changed so it works.Because low damages gets way more reduced than high damages... that is an intended feature.

[Foggia]

Until you get mindsquashed, then that 2 minute cooldown is a death sentence.


When i'm fully buffed with my own self buffs, barb attacks(lvl 50) do between 550-800 per attack. If my evasive tactics is in cooldown, it can be more like 750-1000 per attack. If i get mindsquashed, normal attacks can exceed 1500dmg.

However, barbs that go "all out for offense", even vs acrobat 5, they can do 1300+ dmg with ease with skills like Balestra. Add in evasive tactics 5, and a max damage barbs balestra still does in the range of 700-900 dmg per hit, even on lvl 1.

Material wall is great...it can take that same 700-900hp hit and reduce it to about 500-600dmg...but a barb can counter that with mindsquash, which not even DI will protect you against.

Barbs are bad enough in 1 on 1s, but in large battles when they are superbuffed with auras, they're completely over the top.

I love shooting at a charging barb that's protected by heroic and blocking auras, becuase i love wasting money on EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE arrows that, when they're not blocked(which in fort wars about 80% of them are), do well under 100dmg to my enemy.
(text in green is sarcasm)


It would be easy to do. Just take them off a +% weapon damage scale and give them a fixed damage spell like meteor, golem fist, etc.

WAY too many barb attack skills are +% weapon dmg, so everything they do can potentially be a 1000+ dmg attack.


Generally reading ur posts I can say u give too many advantages to a single barb. With ur barb description it would mean we have lvl 19 slashing, warcries, blunt, 2h mastery and tactics trees and about 80 skill points to distribute. Also u think every barb has DI, material wall, knight auras, lvl 5 conju buffs, limitless mana given by conju, unstoppable madness during most of the fight.

But on the topic (which I guess has become another barb discussion) - Im against turning %s into dmg like meteor and golem fist. Why? Because then all dmg improvements coming from buffs, weapon, rings/amus/armor/whatever u use to improve ur dmg would become far less useful, since they would improve only ur basic hits. My solution would be limiting the max %s the attack could be boosted. Like with speed - its capped, so u cant run faster than 150% - so would be with meele attacks. The exact value would need to be stated, but I think 200-250% weapon dmg is high enaugh. On the other hand, since this would nerf pretty much attacks like sc or ripost (3-4k+ dmg sc has like 400% dmg risen by buffs? ) barb would need something what would help him to survive a bit longer - we die very often, comparing to other classes because of poor defense (and I dont mean armor points, but general RO game tactics - barbs are targeted 1st in fort wars, they are most common victims of different tricks , like mind push, stunning fists, ambushes, etc. most of u overestimate the power of madness - it has long cooldown and huge mana cost, also the duration isnt that impressive). No idea what could that be, though.

[Znurre]

Generally reading ur posts I can say u give too many advantages to a single barb. With ur barb description it would mean we have lvl 19 slashing, warcries, blunt, 2h mastery and tactics trees and about 80 skill points to distribute. Also u think every barb has DI, material wall, knight auras, lvl 5 conju buffs, limitless mana given by conju, unstoppable madness during most of the fight.

But on the topic (which I guess has become another barb discussion) - Im against turning %s into dmg like meteor and golem fist. Why? Because then all dmg improvements coming from buffs, weapon, rings/amus/armor/whatever u use to improve ur dmg would become far less useful, since they would improve only ur basic hits. My solution would be limiting the max %s the attack could be boosted. Like with speed - its capped, so u cant run faster than 150% - so would be with meele attacks. The exact value would need to be stated, but I think 200-250% is high enaugh. On the other hand, since this would nerf pretty much attacks like sc or balestra (3-4k+ dmg sc has like 400% dmg risen by buffs? ) barb would need something what would help him to survive a bit longer - we die very often, comparing to other classes because of poor defense (and I dont mean armor points, but general RO game tactics - barbs are targeted 1st in fort wars, they are most common victims off different tricks , like mind push, stunning fists, ambushes, etc.). No idea what could that be, though.Very good post... you sum up my thoughts very well.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

But on the topic (which I guess has become another barb discussion) - Im against turning %s into dmg like meteor and golem fist. Why? Because then all dmg improvements coming from buffs, weapon, rings/amus/armor/whatever u use to improve ur dmg would become far less useful, since they would improve only ur basic hits.
yep, why turn a barb into a melee range warlock? it would make no sense at all, the thing is that you have to be careful with these weapon damage 100% maybe make some spells 50% as their single hits would become way too powerful, it's hard to balance because they need not to become too weak or too strong

[Znurre]

yep, why turn a barb into a melee range warlock? it would make no sense at all, the thing is that you have to be careful with these weapon damage 100% maybe make some spells 50% as their single hits would become way too powerful, it's hard to balance because they need not to become too weak or too strongYou must also question yourself, on which hits do you want to base the balance tweaks?
The 200% buffed ones which Valorius uses as reference, or the normal hits for an unbuffed barbarian?

That is why I mostly dislike Valorius posts, he only shows the truth that gain himself...

<Valorius whine>
Hunters are waaaay too overpowered.
First of all they evade 100% of all hits when they are in SOTW, a god mode spell and not enough with that but they can also cause 1k damages on range 30.
http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11516&d=1215422349
</Valorius whine>

Sorry Valorius, I respect you as player but sometimes I can't take your egoistic posts.

[Valorius]

Generally reading ur posts I can say u give too many advantages to a single barb.
I clearly said im talking about the class in general, not any one specific build.

Also u think every barb has DI, material wall, knight auras, lvl 5 conju buffs, limitless mana given by conju, unstoppable madness during most of the fight.
Some of them DO get all those buffs, in fort wars it's quite common to face these super-barbs....and guess what, they're nearly invincible killing machines.

You must also question yourself, on which hits do you want to base the balance tweaks?
The 200% buffed ones which Valorius uses as reference, or the normal hits for an unbuffed barbarian?
If the damage was a fixed range, it would cover both scenarios, they would always be the same.

<Valorius whine>
Hunters are waaaay too overpowered.
First of all they evade 100% of all hits when they are in SOTW, a god mode spell and not enough with that but they can also cause 1k damages on range 30.
http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11516&d=1215422349
</Valorius whine>
The bow i used to accomplish the 1023 dmg is Slow 25 range Xim Viper LB(a very rare bow).

BTW...SoTW is hardly 100% defense. I just got mindsquashed in it again today, and since the update last month it only stops about 70% of all attacks. It was clealry nerfed, even if NGD denies it. In the thread i started about it, every single player that posted agreed it was nerfed(again).

Sorry Valorius, I respect you as player but sometimes I can't take your egoistic posts.
I think you just misunderstand my intentions. I don't care if people disagree, feel free, just try to be adult about it.

Calling me egotistical because i don't agree with you is, in fact, an egotistical act.

Look at the below screen shot: 50 dmg regular bow attacks and 200dmg lvl 5 ensnare attack. That was a ONE ON ONE, the barb had no outside buffs at all...just his own.

I AM SORRY, BARBS ARE OVERPOWERED IN MANY WAYS. This goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond just SC. To be honest i feel the 'defensive build' barb is FAR more powerful than the high damage SC monkey. At least the high dmg ones you can actually kill...

The entire class is wildly out of balance. The screen shot absolutely speaks for itself.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

You must also question yourself, on which hits do you want to base the balance tweaks?
I always thought that a barb should have some options to chose between, speed, defence and damage, a barbs damage is still high with a good defensive build, if you turn down the damage they do with a normal hit it would be bad for defensive builds, if there somehow was a different way of calculating weapon/dmg buffs or somehow tweaking them in a different way it would hurt dmg barbs more.

Maybe I should get some sleep before posting stuff like this >_> knight all

[Vroek]

Now take look at archers, its ridicules how well a group of only archersy can do against a balanced group of the same size, this is a BIG ISSUE for a RvR game and it only shows how dominating archers are on a bigger scale in RO.

Barbarians having a slight advantage over archers 1v1 is nothing in comparison even less when considering the advantage archers have over mages.
If this wasn’t the case the RvR balance mentioned above would be even more messed up.
I dont expect Valorius to gasp any of this, but others can probably see the sense in it.

A defensive buffed marksman or a hunter with a good pet build is far from easy for a barbarian.
A hunter with a 'ninja' build is very disadvantaged but can still do amazingly well if they play it right and their 'lucky' spells dont fail them completely.
I suggest you dont try this build if you can’t handle it. In my opinion only very few hunters actually been able to play it right, the rest are more or less pathetic with these builds.

[Znurre]

The bow i used to accomplish the 1023 dmg is Slow 25 range Xim Viper LB(a very rare bow).

BTW...SoTW is hardly 100% defense. I just got mindsquashed in it again today, and since the update last month it only stops about 70% of all attacks. It was clealry nerfed, even if NGD denies it. In the thread i started about it, every single player that posted agreed it was nerfed(again)This was just an example, of the kind of argument you use.
I know that none of these arguments are valid, but neither are those you come up with as proof for what you say about barbarians being overpowered.

Because, the truth is not that every barbarian out there have normal hits for 1.5k damage.
There are barbarians which specialize on these builds but they become very weak in certain scenarios instead.

Basing your "nerf barbarian campaign" on these hits is like me saying that hunters are overpowered because you managed to do an 1k ensnaring arrow :)

It is a RvR game after all.

Calling me egotistical because i don't agree with you is, in fact, an egotistical act.I don't call your posts egoistic because I disagree, I would very much like to have a proper discussion about barbarians but then you must have proof that is not designed to fit your intentions.

Let's do like this.
Drop this discussion until you have got 5 different screenshots from scenarios vs barbs you consider being overpowered.
Each screen should be from a different barbarian and I want to see:

1. How much damage he caused on you, and not just one South Cross
2. How much damage you caused on him
3. The evasion

Now we could have a proper discussion.

[Valorius]

Start with the screen shot in my last post Znurre.

200dmg lvl 5 ensnare and 50 dmg regular attacks from an EXTREMELY good 25/med Viper Comp Ximerald LB is nuts, absolutely nuts. (The fight was a 1 on 1, he had only his own buffs)

I am sure i can dig up 4 more. (tommorow)

PS: Played properly, hunters can be -extremely- overpowered in some scenarios. As Vreok correctly pointed out however, the vast majority of players(of all classes), don't really know what they're doing(i think in most cases it's just because they're not experienced enough, especially in 1 on 1s). I also think that played properly, against their 'anti-class', any class can be underpowered vs their opponent.

[Znurre]

Start with the screen shot in my last post Znurre.In that screenshot the poor barb didn't even damage you, so I fail to see the problem with those low hits if he cannot or can barely hit you at all :p

[backe]

:sifflote: I enjoy how almost every one of these nonsensical posts has "clearly" somewhere in it. As if we must be morons not to agree with the almighty Valorious's "clearly" biased opinions.

Look at the below screen shot: 50 dmg regular bow attacks and 200dmg lvl 5 ensnare attack. That was a ONE ON ONE, the barb had no outside buffs at all...just his own.

I AM SORRY, BARBS ARE OVERPOWERED IN MANY WAYS. This goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond just SC. To be honest i feel the 'defensive build' barb is FAR more powerful than the high damage SC monkey. At least the high dmg ones you can actually kill...

The entire class is wildly out of balance. The screen shot absolutely speaks for itself.How is this any sort of proof whatsoever that barbs are overpowered? Guess what, four words; Frenzy, Caution, Steel Temper. On top of that, high lvl barb armor has high resist to pierce damage. But wait! Lets look at the damage reduction more carefully..

Frenzy @ Lvl 5 = 20% resistance to PHYSICAL (only) damage
+10% to 20% resistance to weapon specific damage @ 4 power points per weapon type
Total Power Points Spent? 4 to 16
Total Mana Cost? 125
Total Duration? 90 sec

Acrobatic @ Lvl 5 = 30% resistance to damage
Total Power Points Spent? 4
Total Mana Cost? 110
Total Duration 120

If any power points are going into the passive resists, 90% of barbs would put it into pierce, as that will always be the majority of incoming PHYSICAL damage. So the damage reduction looks in order? Can you complain about the armor as well, because lvl 50 barb armor is pretty much on par with all other lvl 50 armor sets. Is it Caution? I will admit that Caution is a better spell than Evasive Tactics, but then again, a barbs evade caps out at 64 and, other than CC resist spells, thats it for defensive techniques.

Other people have already told you that warriors were designed to trump archers. Why do you not understand this? Why would NGD give high-level warrior armor high resists to pierce? Why can't you figure out that if you want to do damage to a barb, using pierce damage is not the most efficient way?

"Clearly" you don't realize that attacking a class who's armor is "very good" or "good" and has damage reduction to your classes main damage type requires changing your traditional methods of attack. Or, I guess in your case, screaming "nerf" will suffice.

At any rate, get a bow with frost damage, and stop whining...

Edit:
What Znurre said above....

[Akooo]

All i can say, i dont see any sense in this thread. Only class i'm playing, fearing barbs, is with my knight. They always manage to mindsquash me :crying1:

Didn't had any probs killing barbs with my lock, marks or hunter (with pet btw :harhar: )

[save_the_trees]

Let's do like this.
Drop this discussion until you have got 5 different screenshots from scenarios vs barbs you consider being overpowered.
Each screen should be from a different barbarian and I want to see:

1. How much damage he caused on you, and not just one South Cross
2. How much damage you caused on him
3. The evasion

Now we could have a proper discussion.

I have a better idea: any barb volunteering could just pm Valorius or any other hunter with high evasion build and post the screenshots here, including the setup. At least I never do more than around 500 on a normal hit on a buffed hunter. A joke if you ask me, considering the fact that I do over 750 normal hits on most knights if they don't block.

Edit: speaking of the my barb of course. Would be fun if I could do that on the conju without losing other spells :D

[fluffy_muffin]

In that screenshot the poor barb didn't even damage you, so I fail to see the problem with those low hits if he cannot or can barely hit you at all :p
You should. Even if i think that Valorious posts are crap i don't think that so low dmg on barbs is ok. I don't have problem with 4-5k hits from barb AS LONG i can deal dmg to them. And 40-60dmg on 50 lvl barb is not good for health in 1on1. Even if this poor barb couldn't hit him it is insane. Imagine that i would want to kill you with 50dmg hits. Count how many of them would kill you.

[Znurre]

You should. Even if i think that Valorious posts are crap i don't think that so low dmg on barbs is ok. I don't have problem with 4-5k hits from barb AS LONG i can deal dmg to them. And 40-60dmg on 50 lvl barb is not good for health in 1on1. Even if this poor barb couldn't hit him it is insane. Imagine that i would want to kill you with 50dmg hits. Count how many of them would kill you.Take in consideration that the hunter should have a pet to assist him.... then the damage will rise.
The only thing you sacrifice pets for is more evasion, not more damage.

[fluffy_muffin]

Take in consideration that the hunter should have a pet to assist him.... then the damage will rise.

Sure :D You know what? I had fight with Yoseba 200m from Central save. My pet had skin of the beast. Died in 3rd SC. You know how many hp he lost? ~1/3. Resisted ambush, stunning fist and mine dmg was exactly 48. And i have elemental dmg bonus from bow. I tell you that caution + frenzy is not nice for an archer. Not cool at all.

[Mikan]

Take in consideration that the hunter should have a pet to assist him.... then the damage will rise.
The only thing you sacrifice pets for is more evasion, not more damage.
Hunters are facing this problem against many classes these days. Marksman, Hunters, Knights and Barbarians all seem to be able to reduce our damage to ~40, or 100 at most. That's less than 30% at best.

NGD really needs to do something about the armor.

It should defend against excessive hits, not eliminate small ones. Right now not only does it completely eliminate the ability for a Hunter to do any damage without Dualshot/Tear apart/Ensnaring arrow (all of which require mana), but it also ruins fast attacking pets such as felines who can do nothing against armored targets.

Here is a list of the only pets that can pierce this kind of armor:
- Beastly Yeti
- Giant Troll/Tol-tar

See the problem? :)

Regards.

[Valorius]

In that screenshot the poor barb didn't even damage you, so I fail to see the problem with those low hits if he cannot or can barely hit you at all :p
I ran away because there was no point in fighting him. He would have crushed me horribly. What the heck is the point in fighting against someone that can hit me for 1000+ dmg, whom i can only hit for 1/5th that amount with my very best spell.

There is no point.

Nice evasion though... you should be a hunter. ;)

Hunters are facing this problem against many classes these days. Marksman, Hunters, Knights and Barbarians all seem to be able to reduce our damage to ~40, or 100 at most. That's less than 30% at best.

NGD really needs to do something about the armor.

It should defend against excessive hits, not eliminate small ones. Right now not only does it completely eliminate the ability for a Hunter to do any damage without Dualshot/Tear apart/Ensnaring arrow (all of which require mana), but it also ruins fast attacking pets such as felines who can do nothing against armored targets.

Here is a list of the only pets that can pierce this kind of armor:
- Beastly Yeti
- Giant Troll/Tol-tar

See the problem? :)

Regards.
Agreed.

And let the record reflect that Katie has lvl 50 marks, hunter and barb characters, for those that think that's some prerequisite for having a valid opinion.

Sure :D You know what? I had fight with Yoseba 200m from Central save. My pet had skin of the beast. Died in 3rd SC. You know how many hp he lost? ~1/3. Resisted ambush, stunning fist and mine (bow) dmg was exactly 48. And i have elemental dmg bonus from bow. I tell you that caution + frenzy is not nice for an archer. Not cool at all.
I agree 100%

Of course, according to some posters, we're "just whiners".

Let them hit their enemy for 200dmg only with their best attack spell, and see how fast they start "whining".

Real fast...

BTW...in the screen shot i posted, my first 3 shots against him WERE with a cold bonus damage bow. The max elemental damage bonus a weapon can have that i've ever seen is +28. Big deal...so our hits do 68 instead of 40? In my screen shot i hit him with Sudden strike, and score a crit for a whooping 115dmg. WTF, over?

Take off your blinders Barbarians.

"Defensive Barbarians" are waaaaaaaaaaay too well protected, and offensive barbarians are waaaaaaaay too powerful wrt the damage they do.

The entire class is just flat out very poorly balanced, and quite frankly, NGD's armor system sucks.

[Valorius]

At least I never do more than around 500 on a normal hit on a buffed hunter.

SEE SCREEN SHOT BELOW:

I am buffed with Lvl 5 acrobat, lvl 5 spell elude, AND sotw.

I get hit first with a 819hp dmg mindsquasher vs my full buffs. That's a 100% weapon dmg spell vs full buffs......819hp.

Then you can see after what happens...Gloin 939 reg hit, Jose Raptor 1214 hit...dead. 3 hits...dead. What's more, i have way more HP than most hunters, i have a 84 constitution..and 91 with one of my bows!

That's vs SOTW5 Acrobat5, AND Elude5...3 hits, dead. You can see Martelo's (who is a marksman i believe) hit vs me unbuffed too....219dmg. That's vs me fully 100% unbuffed. The barbs regular hits hit for 500% more damage.

Barbarians are overpowered. Flat out, plain and simple...in many ways. Mindsquasher only made them even more unbalanced. The amazing this is NGD said they implemented the Backwards walk speed 2 updates ago(that was almost instantly removed) to "Lessen the imbalance between ranged and melee classes."

It makes me wonder if anyone at NGD even plays the game when they make statements like that.

[Vroek]

You have five FIVE opponents attacking you!
Just that you expect to survive that say alot about you and the hunter class.

[Valorius]

I'm not saying i should have survived, im only illustrating that...

A) my full buffs and the greatly overhyped SOTW can be worth absolutely squat if i get mindsquashed.

B) That even with my full buffs +100% wpn dmg (ie a 'regular hit') for that blunt barb was still 800+dmg

C) That unbuffed, regular barb attacks can easily hit 1000dmg on regular hits.

D) That like the thread starter stated, a Barb can kill you in 3 hits.(doesnt matter that the 3 hits are from 3 different barbs, just that it was only 3)

[Znurre]

I get hit first with a 819hp dmg mindsquasher vs my full buffs. That's a 100% weapon dmg spell vs full buffs.....But the dispell works before the damage is applied, so that explains the high damage.

[Hydroxidee]

I wonder if Znurre is irritated he didn't get a hit in to Val :P. Yeah I agree Barbs are a lil overpowered. But I also agree all classes are overpowered and need more thought into them than for example "barbarian- kills everything jajjaa. knight- blocking pro jajjaaja. marksman- knight in range form jajaja. warlock- nerf it but looks like its pro jajajja. conj- heal but cant do shit jajjajaja. hunter- runs and camoes like fu** jajajajja. LES MAKE REGNUM ONLINE"


I mean seriously. Anyone ever wonder why theres pebels in the words?

[_dracus_]

I'm not saying i should have survived, im only illustrating that...

A) my full buffs and the greatly overhyped SOTW can be worth absolutely squat if i get mindsquashed.

B) That even with my full buffs +100% wpn dmg (ie a 'regular hit') for that blunt barb was still 800+dmg

C) That unbuffed, regular barb attacks can easily hit 1000dmg on regular hits.

D) That like the thread starter stated, a Barb can kill you in 3 hits.(doesnt matter that the 3 hits are from 3 different barbs, just that it was only 3)

A) Barbarian can also get some serious debuff in the ass from archers ie Sudden strike and Death Sentance. Then all our mana for buffing worth nothing

B)What you see as regular hits at 800 dmg are buffed hit or maybe you use low level armor and low level evasive tactics. Usually I'm using TFB level 4 to buff my normal hits, you will notice +40 dmg per hits (last 5 hits or 45s) which means +200 dmg on the 5th hit.

C) Yes it can kills you in 3 hits with all kind of buff but with very slow weapon. If you are not knock down or dizzy, why the fuck and archer will stand for something like 7 or 8s standing here to get poke by a barb.

[Valorius]

As you told me in clan PMs last night GPH (paraphrase), "A hunter is no challenge at all for a barb. I can count on one hand the number of times in WZ a hunter has beaten me with a war setup one on one since lvl 47."

A) Barbarian can also get some serious debuff in the ass from archers ie Sudden strike and Death Sentence. Then all our mana for buffing worth nothing
In the screen shot i posted in this thread i hit the barb with Sudden strike, and my crit hit is still only 115dmg using an 'elite' bow.

This is "serious debuff in the ass"?

Even with Death sentence5 i'd have still only done 170dmg with my crit.

C) Yes it can kills you in 3 hits with all kind of buff but with very slow weapon. If you are not knock down or dizzy, why the fuck and archer will stand for something like 7 or 8s standing here to get poke by a barb.
Barbs have all kinds of ways to knock/freeze you in place. what is it, 4 different ways, not even including areas?

Almost all of which will work through DI.

Last night in clan chat you openly admitted how overpowered barbs are when executor was talking about the one he beat. It's plainly obvious how out of balance they are.

I posted a screen shot earlier in this thread of a barb in a 1 on 1 with me, taking only 202 damage from a lvl 5 ensnare even with a lvl 50 Xim LB with a big elemental dmg bonus...

My kingdom for ethereal arrow... :(

[BlooD]

Last night in clan chat you openly admitted how overpowered barbs are when executor was talking about the one he beat. It's plainly obvious how out of balance they are.


He tends to agree with you to not have to hear you in clan chat.

That gph is a wise guy.

[Valorius]

Don't be trying to put words into his mouth, and don't be trying to cause problems with me and my clan mates. GPH and i get along perfectly well in game.

[BlooD]

Don't be trying to put words into his mouth, and don't be trying to cause problems with me and my clan mates. GPH and i get along perfectly well in game.

I didnt put nothing in his mouth, but seeing how always he agrees with you in clan chat and you tend to say it to him each time he disagrees with you in forums....

Well, he is flirting with another girl sweetie. Love has an end too you know. Maybe you didnt gave him what he deserves.

[Adrian]

I warned everyone about this. I'm sorry. The forum is NOT for personal fights.

Regards,