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_dracus_
12-18-2008, 01:59 PM
Bravo NGD now Warrior are the best class. At least I got a lvl 50 barb. Lots of people were asking for balance, and I was part of thoses. But this is way too much for what I've seen. Removing lots of defenses from evasion. Ok, evasion was really too much. Moving speed passive we don't know why. Removing our bonus from our bows that we might have trade especially for the bonus. Thanks

magnet
12-18-2008, 02:08 PM
Archers down? For real? Best. news. ever :D. :banana: :clapping5365: :bounce5425:

_dracus_
12-18-2008, 02:17 PM
Archers down? For real? Best. news. ever :D. :banana: :clapping5365: :bounce5425:

It's not even fun to kill a hunter with my barb now.

Mattdoesrock
12-18-2008, 02:17 PM
Killing a hunter with a barb has never been that much of a challenge.

Inkster
12-18-2008, 02:30 PM
about time you dart slingers got you commuppance ^^

magnet
12-18-2008, 02:39 PM
It's not even fun to kill a hunter with my barb now.

It was never challenging to kill anyone with an archer. NGD cannot balance this game, but they can balance the suffering of each class. Archers deserve one year of pain, and if all archers have switched to another class the game can only be more fun, because Archers don't provide anything whether it be teamplay or tactical fights.

_dracus_
12-18-2008, 02:53 PM
... because Archers don't provide anything whether it be teamplay or tactical fights.

That's your point of view.

However I don't understand why it was necessary to nerf stunfist, speed passive, or even our bows!

I heard some mage have same with their staff. Honnestly when it comes to modify the personnal items (that might have been trade) I think it's just to sell the new premium thing and in that case that is just not good. Otherwise yeah evasion tree needed nerf but it needed to be thought and tested too.

CumeriTarenes
12-18-2008, 03:02 PM
well, it's not just evasion tree that was changed.

Also confuse, lightning arrow, ethereal arrow, strategic position, ignus snorch, death sentence, stunning fist.
All these spells were reduced in it's power in some way.

I dunno which other spells are effected, because there is nothing in changelog.
But some spells for mages and warriors has also been changed.

Maybe one should collect all these changes to have a better view about what realy changed


... because Archers don't provide anything whether it be teamplay or tactical fights.

yeah, and making DS only working for the caster helps to provide teamplay? I doubt so.

Drokuz
12-18-2008, 03:10 PM
So? I hav'nt seen that you and all the archers complained when you were the most powerful class ando no one could beat you. So, If you wanted to laugh when you escaped from every situation and didn't let a mage cast a single power, you have no right to complain now :thumb_down:.

Greetings.

_dracus_
12-18-2008, 03:16 PM
So? I hav'nt seen that you and all the archers complained when you were the most powerful class ando no one could beat you. So, If you wanted to laugh when you escaped from every situation and didn't let a mage cast a single power, you have no right to complain now :thumb_down:.

Greetings.

You should go read threads about SotW, lots of archer were complaining about the get out of jail card it is.

For barbarian the 2 handed mastery tree seems really attractive now with the area corrected.

Comp
12-18-2008, 05:01 PM
Archers....stop complaining - just learn how to replay. I find it to be quite interesting and forces me to rethink how to play my hunter.

Not sure many hunter's noticed but ensnare is now range 0 :D

I too have noticed that my life expectancy with new evasion tree is ALOT less - but - it forces me to think more about my attacks...I like it.

No more get out of jail free card....and now confuse monkeys will have to think long and hard if that's really what they want.

I've already figured out how to make my hunter a beotch again - so fun fun fun :D

Mellion
12-18-2008, 05:07 PM
It is not only an archers buff problem, melee weapons buff, frenzy, caution, acrobatic, str. pos., spell elude...

The night before the update on Amun I was very close to buy a hugh bit of Premium. Bot now: You can't be sure if ngd doesn't mess up your character or your beloved items.

Sorry, ngd, that simply sucks.

It would have been much more simple: Increase Caution, Windwall, Frenzy to 120/120s. Make Arcane Devotion a passive skill.

UmarilsStillHere
12-18-2008, 06:09 PM
For a long time archers were the most powerfull class, they are far from dead they are simply "not overpowered" now, Warriors may be the most powerfull class in your eyes, in mine they deserve to be because they are bitches to level, well knights are and barbs can be sometimes, but to me the classes are pretty even now, So I dont mind, also stunfist is a % spell now so add that to your list of "reasons archers suck because now they need to play like everyone else"

makarios68
12-18-2008, 06:29 PM
Archers....stop complaining - just learn how to replay. I find it to be quite interesting and forces me to rethink how to play my hunter.

Not sure many hunter's noticed but ensnare is now range 0 :D

I too have noticed that my life expectancy with new evasion tree is ALOT less - but - it forces me to think more about my attacks...I like it.

No more get out of jail free card....and now confuse monkeys will have to think long and hard if that's really what they want.

I've already figured out how to make my hunter a beotch again - so fun fun fun :D
I agree with Comp: even tho archers have been nerfed more than any other class, i think it is about time they didn't have it so easy (and anyone who claims they didn't is talking nonsense).

I have a distinct feeling of vulnerability about my hunter now. I had this feeling with all my other characters before the update, but not with my hunter. Now i have it with him too.

I still think hunters are going to annoy and frustrate - in fact, probably more so now because they are less protected but they have more speed with the new sow - so i predict that people will see an increase in the times hunters do a runner! Get used to it - coz now they have weaker defense they will take to the heal more readily.

As for the weapons they nerfed - OMG NGD why did you do that to my beautiful bow? !! That bow is my best friend and you hurt him!

BTW evasion seriously sux now unless you are a mob.

I have definately noticed that archers are getting hit much more than before.

Man, i forsee the archer class not being quite as popular as before, and you know what? - i'm glad, coz i will stay with my hunter no matter what, and it pleases me that now people can't say that it is too easy to play hunter.

That claim will now be made against another class, and there will probably be a growth of that class in the WZ.

Weaker hunters FTW!!

TooCoolForU
12-18-2008, 06:34 PM
Bravo NGD now Warrior are the best class. At least I got a lvl 50 barb. Lots of people were asking for balance, and I was part of thoses. But this is way too much for what I've seen. Removing lots of defenses from evasion. Ok, evasion was really too much. Moving speed passive we don't know why. Removing our bonus from our bows that we might have trade especially for the bonus. Thanks

Barbs were nerfed too so I believe you need to sit down and think about how archers have been godly in this game.

You need to start playing like a pro and stop relying in your happy go lucky easy skill spree.

Arkenion
12-18-2008, 06:47 PM
Omg! Evasion nerfed? Wow! :D

Jedi-x
12-18-2008, 07:11 PM
I have to agree with Wudy and Comp both here ....... NOW ...... we will all see the difference in the Hunters and the wannabe's. Better make your plans a little more carefully now. I look forward to the challenge, and now, I promise you that I will be even sneakier than before :naughty:

Go NGD ..... this is what Hunters were meant to be !!

DkySven
12-18-2008, 07:31 PM
Barbs were nerfed too so I believe you need to sit down and think about how archers have been godly in this game.

You need to start playing like a pro and stop relying in your happy go lucky easy skill spree.
The character gph plays most is a barb. ^^

_dracus_
12-18-2008, 08:28 PM
Barbs were nerfed too so I believe you need to sit down and think about how archers have been godly in this game.

You need to start playing like a pro and stop relying in your happy go lucky easy skill spree.

You must be kidding me, first I play a barb too. And this update greatly improve barbarian. A little less tanking and bit more but the 2 handed mastery tree totally good now.

Domino_
12-18-2008, 08:28 PM
Omg! Evasion nerfed? Wow! :D

Time for return Arki :)

_dracus_
12-18-2008, 08:49 PM
Yeah Arkenion is back.

Vroek
12-18-2008, 09:41 PM
You must be kidding me, first I play a barb too. And this update greatly improve barbarian. A little less tanking and bit more but the 2 handed mastery tree totally good now.

?

south cross, spiritual blow, beast attack, caution, magnifications and all area damage spells all been nerfed.

2h - got expansive wave improved, and whirlwind 'fixed', but it adds nothing new to barbarians we had area damage for free in weapon disciplines before.
Area damage points that was often used in tactical and defensive abilities, im pretty sure we will see two completely different barb setups.
Areas spammer or warrior, which will you be? :)

Maybe its justified but please dont call it improvements!

1v1 warrior will be a lot tougher, but im pretty sure archers going to score some cheap points against warriors in rvr.

Both warriors and archer got their end of the stick here.

Arkenion
12-18-2008, 09:44 PM
Yeah Arkenion is back.
Lol wtf, just because I post here once? Maybe I'll drop in one day to say ello' but not more. :p

Mattdoesrock
12-18-2008, 09:49 PM
Lol wtf, just because I post here once? Maybe I'll drop in one day to say ello' but not more. :p

:sadface:

:ohill:

On topic (ish):

south cross, spiritual blow, beast attack, caution, magnifications and all area damage spells all been nerfed.

This isn't 100% true..

The only warrior area, as in a lvl 19 area, to suffer from the nerf is Thunder Strike.

As you well know, everyone and they aunts has Lightning Strike or Typhoon on 5, so the nerf will have made 0 difference to them. However not many people put points into Thunder Strike.. So it's the only one to recieve a "nerf" as it were, which is really annoying.

Secondly Expansive Wave has not only been improved, but made into a truely fantastic spell. Unbuffed, with level 5, I was getting hits of ~900 damage, plus, with it's cooldown of 45 seconds, it's a really great spell.

Properly on topic:

It's really boring to hear archers bawling their eyes out over the update. It's turned into a "No, my class has been nerfed more!" contest. Everyone has recieved some kind of nerf, specifically defenses, you just have to acknowledge it, and adapt. You really cannot deny that you've had it easy, these changes are fantastic and right.

I know that as a barb, I feel dramatically more fragile, I can't just stick on my buffs 24/7 and wonder around fine and dandy. I really have to think alot more clearly about when and what buffs I use - Adding a great deal of depth and enjoyment to gameplay.

Everyone is in the same boat, we all have to "relearn" our setups and the game it's self.

-Edge-
12-18-2008, 10:12 PM
Mmm I agree with you Dracus, but sorry only to a certain extent.

The rest of the world sat in the shadows last year while archers were contsantly the focus of almost every update. In short here there is now way in hell that an archer who was the focus of attention for the whole past year should get some change in the case of for instance a knight, who has god knows when recived attention.

Let me just put it this way, it wouldn't have been fair if archers entered invasions with the evasion rate they had, can you imagine what it would be like if you had a hunter hauling the realm gem? You could even do it as a 1 man job in that case, NGD needed to remove that.

I just don't understand DS which was just a plain nerf imo,

But the only thing I think is really unfair is the removal of Xym bows, because NGD did not tell anyone about the changes to them, and up until the update people were buying them for alot of cash, whereas now they are worthless.

wosuhecy
12-18-2008, 10:25 PM
Now with this update, lvl 50 marksman can easily be killed by warrior with lvl 40.
I do not like it :S
(sure i am a pt_but ...)

Jedi-x
12-18-2008, 11:01 PM
My barb was killing lvl 50 Marks..before this update ....... maybe they were playing all wrong, but none the less .. it was happening. The 'sudden' drop of all ximerald seems a bit drastic! Granted, the bows that I had, are still better than what you can buy, but OMG from a lvl 50 with massive dmg, to a lvl 48 with just better than you can buy dmg is a big deal. Not to mention what they were bringing in as far as trading material. I think that was a big deal, you can't find a medium speed, range 30 bow over 47 now ................so for those of us who had lvl 50 xim medium speed range 30 bows ......... was a real shocker, not to mention all the time invested to get said bow drops. Dis-appointing, very much so.

Vroek
12-18-2008, 11:20 PM
This isn't 100% true..

The only warrior area, as in a lvl 19 area, to suffer from the nerf is Thunder Strike.

As you well know, everyone and they aunts has Lightning Strike or Typhoon on 5, so the nerf will have made 0 difference to them. However not many people put points into Thunder Strike.. So it's the only one to recieve a "nerf" as it were, which is really annoying.


It was possible to have 3 (even 4 areas since multiple thrust) all for free.
Now that setup would cost atleast 12 extra points, with a much higher mana cost for little extra effect.

Mattdoesrock
12-18-2008, 11:38 PM
It was possible to have 3 (even 4 areas since multiple thrust) all for free.
Now that setup would cost atleast 12 extra points, with a much higher mana cost for little extra effect.

Yeah, that's true, but I was talking about the level 19 areas. ^^

But I totally agree, Devastate and Multiple Thrust have taken a big hit.

Angelwinged_Devil
12-19-2008, 01:00 AM
:sadface:

:ohill:

On topic (ish):



This isn't 100% true..

The only warrior area, as in a lvl 19 area, to suffer from the nerf is Thunder Strike.

As you well know, everyone and they aunts has Lightning Strike or Typhoon on 5, so the nerf will have made 0 difference to them. However not many people put points into Thunder Strike.. So it's the only one to recieve a "nerf" as it were, which is really annoying.

Secondly Expansive Wave has not only been improved, but made into a truely fantastic spell. Unbuffed, with level 5, I was getting hits of ~900 damage, plus, with it's cooldown of 45 seconds, it's a really great spell.

Properly on topic:

It's really boring to hear archers bawling their eyes out over the update. It's turned into a "No, my class has been nerfed more!" contest. Everyone has recieved some kind of nerf, specifically defenses, you just have to acknowledge it, and adapt. You really cannot deny that you've had it easy, these changes are fantastic and right.

I know that as a barb, I feel dramatically more fragile, I can't just stick on my buffs 24/7 and wonder around fine and dandy. I really have to think alot more clearly about when and what buffs I use - Adding a great deal of depth and enjoyment to gameplay.

Everyone is in the same boat, we all have to "relearn" our setups and the game it's self.
I can only agree 100% with you matt

I think though that we should wait a week and see where the game has gone and how people have adapted the changes.

However, I don't think that archers should bite the sand just because the archerclass was overpowered for over a year, Every class should have equal value, atm I think knights are a bit over the top

octopus
12-19-2008, 03:21 AM
I heard mention that Confuse was nerfed. This spell has been complained about being overpowered for a long time, basically a one-shot conjurer killer. So now it was "nerfed" from max of 40 seconds to a max of 35 seconds? If you can't kill a confused conjurer in 35 seconds, you have bigger problems.

The only defense a conjurer has is for a teammate to cast Divine Intervention on them. However DI was nerfed far, far more than Confuse was. At level 5, I used to be able to keep 4 people protected at all times. Now, I can only keep 2 protected. So in my opinion, Confuse has become even more overpowered than before, because you will find more conjurers vulnerable to this spell, and 35 seconds is far more than enough to finish the job.

Comp
12-19-2008, 03:31 AM
I heard mention that Confuse was nerfed. This spell has been complained about being overpowered for a long time, basically a one-shot conjurer killer. So now it was "nerfed" from max of 40 seconds to a max of 35 seconds? If you can't kill a confused conjurer in 35 seconds, you have bigger problems.

The only defense a conjurer has is for a teammate to cast Divine Intervention on them. However DI was nerfed far, far more than Confuse was. At level 5, I used to be able to keep 4 people protected at all times. Now, I can only keep 2 protected. So in my opinion, Confuse has become even more overpowered than before, because you will find more conjurers vulnerable to this spell, and 35 seconds is far more than enough to finish the job.

Don't worry....if you get confused by a hunter.....just fight him you'll win. We can't evade a fart at the moment :D I've never died so fast in my life.

sathilda
12-19-2008, 12:08 PM
As marks, i like my 55% resist ranged damage, especially that since i dropped all range 25 stuff (DS included, so i also trashed arcana strike) allows me to go full conc/crits/base damage/range. Well, making 800-ish crits from 42m on poor mages is always fun :tonguey: Oh wait, made a 732 crit on Dky yesterday... damn overpowered knights :P

Okay, was the bright side, now here are the problems : stunning fist has casting time, trip and feint no. So you can already trash stunning fist as defense. Ambush has 1.5s casting time, so trash it as well, winter stroke is better. Now you need evasion 17, because without escapist(4 ^^) you're dead very quickly, and burst of wind at 4-5.

So the conclusion is that marks sucks in small encounters, but you can now use full damage setup in forts wars without your own people surprised to see you instagibed by warriors.

Imho, it's more lonely hunters that are impacted by the changes, or at least i don't see the difference as marks, because when i started played her, i had already those changes in mind and was used to play without tanking.

Really, i don't plan to play my knight anymore soon, she's the most nerfed of my chars, since i don't use aoo with duration 10s, 10s because a barb will come and MS you, lost caution with duration=cooldown, spring nerfed... i liked tactics 19 :'(

Same with the warlock, i just brought her in WZ a bit after the update, i'm bored after 30 minutes, because the speed of a stupid , because there is not the magic of weapon damage, because our elemental areas still suck etc etc :P

So, i will continue playing marks anyway :p

bigjim
12-19-2008, 12:26 PM
At least not long after I got my Knight to 50 it was nerfed. What good are knight's now besides aura spamming? I am honestly wondering?

fluffy_muffin
12-19-2008, 12:27 PM
Confuse has become even more overpowered than before, because you will find more conjurers vulnerable to this spell, and 35 seconds is far more than enough to finish the job.
Try to have lvl 19 tricks :D then we can talk.

makarios68
12-20-2008, 11:05 AM
I heard mention that Confuse was nerfed. This spell has been complained about being overpowered for a long time, basically a one-shot conjurer killer. So now it was "nerfed" from max of 40 seconds to a max of 35 seconds? If you can't kill a confused conjurer in 35 seconds, you have bigger problems.

The only defense a conjurer has is for a teammate to cast Divine Intervention on them. However DI was nerfed far, far more than Confuse was. At level 5, I used to be able to keep 4 people protected at all times. Now, I can only keep 2 protected. So in my opinion, Confuse has become even more overpowered than before, because you will find more conjurers vulnerable to this spell, and 35 seconds is far more than enough to finish the job.
Archers have been forced to drastically rethink their set ups.

As a result, I think you'll find that far fewer now use confuse.

In an indirect way, it was nerfed more because of this than because of the 5 sec reduction.

I don't particularly like the confuse spell, but don't see any reason to nerf it anymore.

Ertial
12-20-2008, 11:34 AM
What skills did exactly change? How much?
The changelog doesn't provide much information about that.

makarios68
12-20-2008, 11:38 AM
What skills did exactly change? How much?
The changelog doesn't provide much information about that.
Hi Yest.

Basically, the evasion tree provides nowhere near as much protection as it did before.

The upshot of this is that archers now fight in groups and at forts a lot more now (relying on allies for protection), and are also playing like distant attackers (using range to deal dmg and stay out of trouble) - instead of being tanks.

It is a fantastic change IMO!

Ertial
12-20-2008, 11:43 AM
(...)
It is a fantastic change IMO!
Except for my pet. :P It dies a lot faster now. I'm seriously considering a petless setup for wars, although that would ruin my grinding speed.

makarios68
12-20-2008, 11:47 AM
Except for my pet. :P It dies a lot faster now. I'm seriously considering a petless setup for wars, although that would ruin my grinding speed.
Yeah pets don;t keep up now and sometimes mysteriously disappear.

I dropped mine last night for fort wars, and yes it makes killing mobs harder.

Angelwinged_Devil
12-20-2008, 02:00 PM
I think pets are meant for soloing and not for fort wars anyway, even though they can be strong they will also be in the way for your allies in several ways.

1. You cannot completely control a pet allowing the pet to be used as a puppet for:
areas
mana
health

2. Pets make it harder for your conjurer buddies to target more important allies than hunter pets as they are very big, in close fights I can't deny those big toltars gives me problems too.

urgit
12-20-2008, 07:22 PM
What skills did exactly change? How much?
The changelog doesn't provide much information about that.

Free translation from http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=34192

Short bows:

Rapid Short:

Cooldown: 60 secs.

Evasion:

Evasive tactics

Lvl 1 +15% Protection | -15% hit chance
Lvl 5 +55% Protection | -35% hit chance
Duration: 40 secs.
Cooldown: 60 secs.

Acrobatic

Duration: Lvl 1 40 secs | Lvl 5 60 secs.
Cooldown: 80 secs.

Spell Elude

Lvl 1 +15 Spell resist | Duration 40 secs.
Lvl 5 +55 Spell resist | Duration 80 secs.
Cooldown: 100 secs.

Son of the wind

Lvl 1 +1500 Spell resist | +5% speed | Duration 7 secs. | Mana 290
Lvl 5 +1500 Spell resist | +25% speed | Duration 15 secs. | Mana 500

(The archer can cast any skill under SotW)

Cooldown: 120 secs.

Tricks

Stunning Fist
Lvl 1 +150/200 Blunt damage | Cannot attack 4 secs. (Chance 60%)
Lvl 5 +450/600 Blunt damage | Cannot attack 8 secs. (Chance 100%)
Cooldown: 45 secs.
Casting: 0.5 secs.

Retaliation

Lvl 1 Return damage +20%
Lvl 5 Return damage +90%
Duration: 15 secs.
Cooldown: 20 secs.
Casting: 0 secs.

Finesse:

This skill was not working. It is fixed.

Lvl 1: -10% Target hit chance | Duration: 30 secs.
Lvl 5: -30% Target hit chance | Duration: 50 secs.
Cooldown: 100 secs.

Confuse:

Lvl 1 Duration 15 secs.
Lvl 5 Duration 35 secs.

Scouting:

Ensnaring arrow

Lvl 1 +60% weapon damage / +90 piercing damage | -7% movement speed
Lvl 5 +100% weapon damage / +250 piercing damage | -15% movement speed
Range: 0
Cooldown: 8 secs.
Casting: 0.5 secs.

Wild spirit is now the ninth skill of scouting and Sentinel is the sixth one.

PS: I think dodge has also been changed but this change is not indicated in the changelog.

Ertial
12-21-2008, 09:38 AM
Thanks! I think I'll have a look at Finesse next level.

King_Of_Angmar
12-22-2008, 05:09 AM
Archers....stop complaining - just learn how to replay.

All i can say is i totally agree with this right here. It is quite a challenge for me really to totally rethink my strategy in fights, especially since i usually cant do big wars with my lag :S but since this 'nerf' i have been having more fun with my hunter than ever before, i actually have to THINK before charging into 5+ people now. :piz:

I do kinda miss my xym bows though