Marksmen, what are you going to do?

[Kasp1]

Hello,
I'm playing a marksman character. My war tactics are mostly based on Death Sentence and when I meet an enemy alone, my chance to survive depends on it most times. I've got back from a little vacation recently and I realized that it's going to be decreased. I guess many marksmen use DS as I do, what are you going to do with 20% dmg bonus instead of 50%?

[Vythica]

what are you going to do with 20% dmg bonus instead of 50%?
Adapt and overcome.

Oh and spam DS a lot more.

[DemonMonger]

Hello,
I'm playing a marksman character. My war tactics are mostly based on Death Sentence and when I meet an enemy alone, my chance to survive depends on it most times. I've got back from a little vacation recently and I realized that it's going to be decreased. I guess many marksmen use DS as I do, what are you going to do with 20% dmg bonus instead of 50%?

they will use tricks and add +30% damage

[Mattdoesrock]

Yeah, expect to see alot more Tricks based Marks now.

Which means that 1.0.9 will probably be a Tricks nerf.

[AlvaRocT]

I will use surprise attack instead ds and tricks of course..

[_dracus_]

On my own pt marks I have already started using tricks. Now I use:
tricks:
distracting shot(2), confuse(2), ambush(4)

aiming:
DS(4), range passive(4), strat pos(4)

arrows:
RA(5), serpent bite(5), ethereal arrow(5), arcana strike(5), winter stroke(5)

I'll adjust a bit with the update but the ideas is more tricks, more hunt, more fun ^^

[KnuckOne]

All marks will get : 19 evasion, 19 arrow, 17 tricks, 15 aiming, rest in bows i guess... at this rate you can't even call it a marks, just a ninja hunter with extra damage.

Something ambitious would be 19 tricks/evasion/arrow, 13 aiming, 7 bows... :no:

[Seher]

stop crying, I'm thinking of starting a marks. (NGD doesn't want hunters to fight, maybe I should prepare for their new "balance")

at this rate you can't even call it a marks, just a ninja hunter with extra damage.

Hehe this is why I think of starting a marks :devil:

[Aranor]

I'll be playing with my warlock... xD.. I think it is better now than marsk... maybe someday I'll play with my Marsk but maybe someday... xD

PD: Actually I'm a bad player with any of them.. xD

[DemonMonger]

I am afraid of the new marksmen twist. Since most marksmen will start using tricks, I can only imagine the chaos they will cause.

Dirty fighting will add the + 30% that brings ds back up to +50%, and opens a whole new can of tactics.

[Mattdoesrock]

Plus expect alooooooooooooot more Confuses. ;)

[_Enio_]

tricks 17 is pretty much used already, nerf in DS will encourage to spend more points there. either into evasive or stunfist, to balance out the pvp capabilities of this build.

I gonna try 3 different configs after the update. I will give range 30 ds a chance though, it might still be strong combined with strafing and staying over 25 for a while..

Marks vs marks will change alot though. will be fun to find out new tactics after the update.

ngd, hurry please :)

[Carpi]

Maybe this...
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2521/subirtira.jpg

[Anpu]

I will not change setup much. Can't wait to test it with new spell values. :)
And I will not go for Tricks, I am not a fan of range limited spells.

[Znurre]

I am afraid of the new marksmen twist. Since most marksmen will start using tricks, I can only imagine the chaos they will cause.

Dirty fighting will add the + 30% that brings ds back up to +50%, and opens a whole new can of tactics.Afaik, it works like this:

Let's assume we have a marksman with 200 damage normal hits vs a target with no armor.
Then, we cast the current DS on this target (50%) damage.

200 * 1.5 = 300 damage

Now, we try again - this time with the comming DS + dirty fighting (20% + 30%).
And this is where my theory comes into place, because I think it was proved that each +damage% buff counts as a separate layer.

In that case, the math would look like this.

200 * 1.2 * 1.3 = 312 damage.

So, the marksman would actually gain on using the new DS together with Dirty Fighting, damage wise.
How about the range? It works the same in that case.

Let's assume we have all range buffs and passives, and a range 30 longbow.

30 * 1.3 * 1.15 * 0.5 = ~range 20.
So, a marksman will be able to deal sligthly more damage from the same range as the old DS, but the setup wouldn't be very comfortable.

Tricks 19, Longbows 19 and Aiming Mastery 19...
That leaves very few points for anything else, and this build would require constant buffing.

So - is it really worth it?
I don't think many marksmen would choose to use such a build.

And, let's assume the marksman isn't even using a lvl 30 longbow, or no +range% buffs... then we are talking about ~15 or less range, and that's gonna keep the marksman in costant close combat with a warrior thanks to the new movement speed, and in this case - DS would not even work in most cases.

[Mattdoesrock]

Oh no no, I already know several Marks who are planning to use 19 Tricks. Many of the 72's actually.

[Vroek]

So, the marksman would actually gain on using the new DS together with Dirty Fighting, damage wise.


Personally i dont think damage count as different layers.

Either way DF have a range penalty and dont boost fixed damage like DS, so it not much of a gain when some of their best spells be excluded.
I think this is how dirty fighting, DS combo would be calculated.

nomral hits RA(1.4) DF(1.3) DS (1.2) +90%
lethal strike DF & DS +50%
dual shot [bow dmg 5-20%] DF & DS +50% [fixed dmg] DS +20%
arcane strike DS +20%
serpent bite DS +20%

Some marksmen may go for decent level in both DS and DF but i doubt it will work well.
I think the best marksmen will be the once that skip both and take a more tactical aproach.

[Nightchill]

my marks will use:

lb 11
aim 19
arrow 19
evasion 19

this leaves just enough points for tricks 11 (just for df). i've came up with df+ds combo the moment they announced the ds nerf. idk why would other marks use anything over tricks 11 since the tree is so non marksman-like and in general it's crap for marksman.

as for znurre, your calculation is wrong, the range with df is ~29m. i've got to this number with a slightly different formula then yours and with actual testing on amun with dimera. we found where range 30 is with winter stroke and all i needed to get in range for df was 1-2 steps forward with all my buffs on.

[Znurre]

with df is ~29mIn that case, range bonus/malus is not counted as separate layers (maybe it isn't, I have no clue).

[Nightchill]

In that case, range bonus/malus is not counted as separate layers (maybe it isn't, I have no clue).

try this:

15% passive + 30% parabolic = 45% - 50% df = -5% range

30*(-0,05) = -1,5
30 - 1,5 = 28.5 to be precise which fits in exactly in my tests with winter stroke range determination.

[_dracus_]

Znurre I believe all your formulas are wrong. In regnum almost all bonus/malus are in % of base characteristic.

E.g. RA + DF will give: +80% and not +95% like you say ^^

[Znurre]

Znurre I believe all your formulas are wrong. In regnum almost all bonus/malus are in % of base characteristic.

E.g. RA + DF will give: +80% and not +95% like you say ^^You and NC are probably 100% correct.
As I said, I didn't have a clue of how it really worked - but I had seen a post with proofs why Yosebas damages were realistic, and here the poster used each damage bonus as a separate layer.

Ex. 200 * 1.2 * 1.3 instead of 200 * ( 1.2 + 1.3 ).

So, how many times will I have to excuse myself?

[-Drv-]

Oh no no, I already know several Marks who are planning to use 19 Tricks. Many of the 72's actually.
matt, that was a secret.
now we have to kill everyone read your post to keep the thing secret.
are you satisfied matt?

for all the people that things that dirty fighting give +30% damage:
dirty fighting increase the weapon+arrows+rings+amulet damage, not the whole damage you deal.
so think that old ds(5) damage bonus can be obtained with the new ds(5)+dirty fighting is wrong.

same is for specialist: the dex bonus damage isn't increased by the bonus.

to explain better:
dirty fighting +60 damage average
specialist(5) +20 damage average

[KnuckOne]

...
Gpomal use tricks 19, what i can say for having hunted a lot with him is :

- DF is worth the points, especially with dual shot, 4.5s or 7s doesn't matter much. And as said previously, foresight and parabolic almost cancel the DF range malus with a long bow.
- caltrop is good for UM users or, when you're outnumbered, to run away ; even with a conju on our side we managed to get away. And it's also useful in wars, more than lightning arrow because of the way greater speed penalty.
- add to this the CC skills...

On the other hand, no arcana, no winter stroke, no DS spam, so much points in archers skills that he prefers playing hunter atm ;)

[Vroek]

On the other hand, no arcana, no winter stroke, no DS spam, so much points in archers skills that he prefers playing hunter atm ;)

Whats his hunter name? My guess would be 'Zapparoo' or something like that.
Really nasty hunter that showed up from nowhere, I cant think of any other iggy hunter that would qualify.
(unless he play as ninja, and is disqualified)

[KnuckOne]

Whats his hunter name? My guess would be 'Zapparoo' or something like that.
Really nasty hunter that showed up from nowhere, I cant think of any other iggy hunter that would qualify.
(unless he play as ninja, and is disqualified)

"Zoretapo" yes :D