Changes to the combat system

[chilko]

Hello everyone,

After a long time we finally had resources to address one of the most important issues in the combat system.

As you may know, in Regnum (as in most MMO games with simulation based movement) the client moves and he server just makes the appropriate corrections.

This implies that your position on your client is not necessary the same as the position perceived by other users.

We have tried different approaches to this such as client side prediction or lag compensation among others, the last iteration that its currently available offers higher fidelity (this means more network information) depending on priority (selected character has higher priority and then it goes from nearest to farthest character)

Although this new positioning system is a lot better than the ones we used before, melee classes are still having trouble nailing hits on their targets, why?

Well, it has to do with the fact that users see their opponents in the past (because of normal network lag) AND their actions are decided on the server. The server checks if it the user is in range or not, and users may think that they are on range but they are actually not in range (they are just seeing their future position in the server and the past position of their opponents).
After this, the server sends the attack result and the attack animation starts in the user client. This means that the whole action is held back artificially until the attack animation is complete desynchronizing everything.

We have now implemented a system in certain ways, reflects the movement system:


If you start moving when you press a key, you should be able to start attacking when your client thinks that you are in range.
Then, the server will validate and (by the time the attack animation is almost over) you will have the result of the attack (in much better synch).

This is the same solution used in most MMOs out there.

Now that all classes are more responsive we had to fix the following for balance reasons:



We fixed a bug in which ranged classes didn’t have to wait until the end of the round of their weapon (depending on weapon’s speed) to launch a power (Some archers have been using this bug in order to do a power and a normal hit in the same round).
Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled
Weapon speed for ranged classes is 100% faster to make game-play more dynamic (not having to stay still for a long time).
If a power has casting time the casting will start immediately regardless of weapon speed
Weapon speed for warriors is 100% faster only for powers (the ones with casting time 0)
Some Powers that should not be affected by the weapon speed (such as some buffs) will Cast immediately.
Base attack damage for ranged classes will be reduced to maintain the same Damage per second ratio (the amount of this reduction has not been decided yet).
Health and Maná regeneration speeds will be increased in all classes while resting and out of combat mode.
A global cooldown has been added for all powers to balance between fast and slow weapons. This cool down may be different per class and will allow us to add faster weapons in the future (such as dual wielding).

We know that we were trying not to make big adjustments like this, but this is the only way to re-balance base characteristics of melee and ranged classes one and for all. This change is also VERY important in order to provide better synchronicity that (along with the new animations) will provide for a more realistic and immersive experience.

We will soon upload this changes on Amun to try them out… please remember it is still work in progress,

Best regards,

Chilko

[Mattdoesrock]

I hope for the future of Regnum that this is the fix once and for all.

I've done more than my fair share of bitching, but this sounds like good work.

I just hope we have plenty of testing time for this, as it's such a massive change.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I love you.

However if archer attacks will be faster, but less powerfull then arrow cost should be cut by a lot, its to much as it is, with this it will bankrupt archers in a month.

And can the server handle +100% speed archer hits, fast bows will be like miniguns wont they?

[-Edge-]

Finally looks like something I can look forward too.

Thank you very much for sharing this much.

[Pizdzius]

Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled

hunter zergs will end \o/

[ArchmagusArcana]

OMG! WOOOOOOOT!!!!!!

Kick ass. This is the best news i have heard in a long long time.

The global cooldown.....meaning that all powers will CD on same time regardless of wepaonspeed? So i can use my nice slow 30 staff and still cast at the same speed as either fast or medium? Thats interesting. I cannot wait to try this all out.

Thank you so very much for this post and the serious attempts to make this a more balanced experience.

[Saryad]

Apologies for the wording but there is no other way to put this:

FUCK YEAH NGD!

However:
This +100% attack speed on ranged.
Is it gonna mean we fire insanely fast and hit like little girls?

With the staying still i think that archers are gonna suffer seriously at the hands of warriors now, since we have a lack of CC spells compared to mages.

[Anpu]

Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled


The most retarded thing on the whole list. Especially with new base speed.
rest is ok. Lets wait and see.
Thanks for updating us about changes.

[Vulture@Victorious]

Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled

I'm sorry, what? .... no no, wait , let me read this again ...ok i did
now seriously, WHAT? why not just tell archers to leave the game?

i started a hunter because marks were so badly nerfed in 1.0.7 that i couldn't play with my marks anymore, so now the good news: ALL archers -hunter and marks alike- are non-playable!

i won't start a warlock, coz the way things look, it will probably be F-ed up too before i get a chance to play with it :)

[kamax]

Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled i won't start a warlock, coz the way things look, it will probably be F-ed up too before i get a chance to play with it :)
Warlocks are ranged class too :D

[Malik2]

The most retarded thing on the whole list. Especially with new base speed.
rest is ok. Lets wait and see.
Thanks for updating us about changes.

I think it all depends on how it is implemented. Curerntly if you cast something like Break Apart you are frozen until the cast is done. So it is really a matter of how long do you have to stop running before you fire normal and instant abilities.

As someone who has complained a lot about not being able to catch archers who "run and gun" I am intersted in seeing how it works. As someone who has an archer I'm concerned that if the damage is lowered and I can readly get hit by high damage dealers then I will become useless in the wz.

[JosipBroz]

I am really hoping that this will turn out much better for archers then it sounds like, cos it sounds like your changing whole dynamics of playing archer, and I don't mean that in a good way. :ranting:

[VandaMan]

If archers have to stop and hold still during each attack, and the attack speed has been doubled, how will any archer go about chasing someone that tries to run? You'll have to stop every half a second to shoot, while they're still running away... or am I not understanding how this works?

Is there any chance you could force a ranged class to hold still during a normal attack (much like during a power with cast time), rather than canceling the attack if they move too early? It'll be quite irritating trying to time it properly, especially during lag.

[DkySven]

A long time ago everybody had to stop to attack and people still catched runners. Also, even now many spells ranged classes use to catch have a casting time, so they need to stop anyway.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

I like this new changes

[dejan]

AHAHAH!

This is the most ridiculous list of Regnum "improvements" since I started playing Regnum!!

So, please clarify - i seriously hope I am not understanding right (...), we (speaking from marksman perspective) must stay while we attack, if we move our attack is canceled? On top of that, nearby enemies can kick our butts, and we cannot do ANYTHING because we are constantly moving???!! (We must run, let's say)

Again, how about you first fix those few hundreds reported bugs before you actually start "improving" the game?

[Klutu]

Wow very Nice Changes!! Really looks like a legit Balance Atempt.

as for the archers complaining *you have ruined my class* this is not gonna ruin your class it's just balancing

ive never Seen a Archer aiming at someone while running at full speed dancing around him pumping arrows into him. this is a long needed change.

Epic job NGD... how long until we see this go live?

[nole1]

AHAHAH!

This is the most ridiculous list of Regnum "improvements" since I started playing Regnum!!

So, please clarify - i seriously hope I am not understanding right (...), we (speaking from marksman perspective) must stay while we attack, if we move our attack is canceled? On top of that, nearby enemies can kick our butts, and we cannot do ANYTHING because we are constantly moving???!! (We must run, let's say)

Again, how about you first fix those few hundreds reported bugs before you actually start "improving" the game?

It was expected to see some archer complaining about his class not being overpowered anymore, and not being able to kill melee classes without getting a single hit. Well m8 now u are gna feel some of the pain we knights have been feeling for last 2 years of constant nerfing.

Personally i think these are good changes, cause archers wont be able to solo hunt ppl like before. This is a team game after all, and if by any chance u decide to do solo hunt with archer enemy will finally have a chance of defending himself.

Good Job NGD, keep it up, new engine is next :drinks:

[ncvr]

Archers have had it too good for too long. It's time to have some respect for melee classes for a change.

(Just for the record, I have a lvl 41 marks and 42 hunter, and I play both regularly.)

[linearguild]

It sucks that archers have to relearn all the timings yet again, but warriors truly deserved a boost.

I'm concerned that this change


Base attack damage for ranged classes will be reduced to maintain the same Damage per second ratio (the amount of this reduction has not been decided yet).

will be a bigger nerf than intended due to armor mechanics (lower normals = higher % of attack soaked by armor), but I suppose we'll see when Amun opens to the public.

Looking forward to seeing warriors in the front lines, where they should be!

[Shiriki]

I think the changes are completely ok=)
Looking forward to see them!

[Comp]

I think what you'll end up seeing is archers using ALOT more slowing skills...skills that have yet to be fully used by many.

I mean things like...
- Caltrops arrow
- Hinder
- Sticky Touch
- Full blown high lvl ensnares

As a hunter I'll more than likely switch to a controlling configuration since I'll shoot faster but my pet attack won't change. So if I make you slower, knock you down for longer then it may work out to my advantage.

I don't mind change and I won't speak out for or against the archer changes until I can actually see how they affect combat. I do know that warriors need something to get them back in the game.

Also, I highly doubt that this will hinder the killing effectiveness of hunters. This will; however, I think force hunters to choose a fighting style (forts or hunting). We shall see...

[_Enio_]

let me look at this from the archer perspective one sec:

-normal hits get a cast time,which gets cancelled when we move.
-we get a gcd which is between all casts(normals & skills), piggyback is removed (that "bug" which i see as a feature).
-weapon speed changes to maintain the fast gameplay.

--------

Sad to see it change, i understand the technical ideas behind, but its a pretty big nerf of the vivid gameplay we got atm. Id appreciated a different change to "balance" ranged vs melee (allowing piggybacks, removing slowdown on hit, spell changes together with new hit-detection system-improvement, CD & manacost reductions) but its decided and we got to see how it works out.

I look forward to a test phase (soon).


I just hope the change doesnt affect the part of movement skill too much.

I consider that change much bigger then any strafing implementation or any other update we got till now - honestly, i dont feel good about those changes from reading the changelog.

[_Enio_]

Piggyback- removal isnt really a balance-change.

The more i think about the more im disappointed.

[Winds]

We fixed a bug in which ranged classes didn’t have to wait until the end of the round of their weapon (depending on weapon’s speed) to launch a power (Some archers have been using this bug in order to do a power and a normal hit in the same round).
Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled



All in all the coming changes seem rather nice. We'll see how they turn out in practice. Still I'd like to comment these too things.

Removing "piggybacking" is a huge plus. Some could use it with ease, while others couldn't do it for an reason or another. I remember being able to piggy back the first hit while grinding my first char, but long long time I go i though it was removed. Untill lately discussing with someone else he said he does it with every hit. Still couldn't do it myself even if I tried. So this gave an huge advantage to those that used it and seriously I doubt anyone can think it was ment to be possible, so about time it get's removed. Great job NGD!

The second quoted thing I'm conserned about. I once tested WoW for few days on a free trial. They have this system where your spell cancels, if you move. That was like the most annoying thing ever, so please don't bring it here. Rather force the character still like you do with spell casting in it's current form. (What ever you do don't make it possible to cancel spell casting accidentially by pressing a movement key.)

But what I really want to say is: Keep up with the good work devs!

[DkySven]

Piggyback- removal isnt really a balance-change.


No, you're right, it isn't. It is bugfixing.

[_Enio_]

No, you're right, it isn't. It is bugfixing.

Makin friends? Or trying to be funny?

Anyway:
The game ran 3 years unnoticed with a bug which removal changes archer gameplay by 180 degree.

I know it was more an effect of unfinished design from start, but you cant deny it became a much used and loved feature which added to tactics and skillful play. I pity to lose it since it removes a huge bit of micro-tactic without giving much new.

Well, first test - then decide whats worth it.

[Heglin]

Those changes looks great and might actually balance things a bit.

Now i just have to wait and see, when the changes come we'll see if there will be more warriors around than it is now.

On the piggyback thing: Yes it wasn't a problem in the past but some changes made it a problem.

[Mellion]

thx, ngd, I will have lots of spare time after that.

Global cooldown for powers and interruption of attacks because of moving made me stop playing WoW after 2 days trying it.

[Titine]

Great changes !
Instead of increasing attack speed for archers, you could just increase animation speed and wait a little bit between each attack. For instance the animation last half of the attack, and there is an aftercast that long half of the attack so that you still can move when you attack, but half of the time.

[ethil]

A great update is coming :D
Really nice changes and.... no more positional lag FTW!

:drinks:

[e30G]

Interesting. About global cooldowns, is that like attack speed but for spells only?

[Henri_Freundlich]

Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled
Chilko

Ranged classes already have to stand still while we cast something. Realistically, non-spell attacks should *not* be canceled, even if the ranged character is moving.


Rather force the character still like you do with spell casting in it's current form. (What ever you do don't make it possible to cancel spell casting accidentially by pressing a movement key.

I agree with Winds: The current auto-lock for spellcasting should remain in future updates, instead of having the spell cancel at the press of a (movement) button.

------------

Re Global Cooldown: How does this work exactly? Mandatory rest period after all players on a server casts X number of spells?

Changelog looks promising, otherwise :)

[e30G]

Spell cast cancel by moving might become a helpful feature, specially for mages with long cast times.

[Pabl0_Esc]

Love it love it. Can't wait to test it.

[Freduardo]

Yup looks very nice.

Except the attack canceling for ranged. Like already mentioned: I'd prefer to see them immobilized during the attack rather than the attack being canceled.

Looking forward to it.

[Slowlywerot]

Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled -->STATIC

Weapon speed for ranged classes is 100% faster to make game-play more dynamic (not having to stay still for a long time). -->MORE DYNAMIC???



Well, if you think that turn-based strategy games for ranged classes is better, why not?
Like that you could have more ranged classes on the "tarima", but sorry I will continue to be an assasin or in fact a dead assassin or a running assassin.
I just want a new prenium, it could be like a target over the head with this inscription:"Hit me, I'm on frozen mode!"


Base attack damage for ranged classes will be reduced to maintain the same Damage per second ratio (the amount of this reduction has not been decided yet).

Take care, a normal hit on a buffed knight or a buffed marks could be negative.

I don't know why when you make some updates you always decrease the power of certain classes instead of increase the power of the others?
But, I'm too stupid i play a future frozen hunter.

Reguards

[-Haley-]

What a good new =)
I hope it's going to continue in this way.
Looking forward to see them, hehe.
Thanks NGD.

[e30G]

About movement cancelling spell casting, spells canceled this way should not go into cooldown IMO (like guild wars).

[Greyman_tle]

This should be intersting, and i look forward to the testing.

Athough im not sure about Recharged arrows at twice the rate. The sound of it might be a bit much !

Don't see this as a nerf meself. As noted its more relearning the timings. I'll be happy to see the end of slide and shoot tbh, even thou i use it (can't help not atm).

But i am concerned with the damage change, for both RvR and grinding, and the cost of repair/ammo.

Damage to your weapon appears to come from the number of shots you take.....this would therefore double the speed at which the bow becomes damaged....this will also very quickly bankrupt archers + the xtra ammo cost....be lucky if any archer will afford to even get past lvl 20 let alone into the wz.

Depending on the damage change, and if you double the speed then 1/2 damage would be the obvious start, as noted above, with the way damage is soaked up....at the very least i can see some mobs effectively jumping up a difficulty level for ranged classes...but on the good side of that at least ill never have to worry about melee guards attacking me, ill nvr do enuf dam for them to choose me as a target. :p

[UmarilsStillHere]

As expected the archers are moaning that they are no longer uncatchable gods most of the time, well its about bloody time, if you look at how well you have had it for the past year then its about time you got cut down to size, archers only need to move a lot in close combat this looks to make that harder now which is good for melee class's.

When firing at range from a fort wall or behind the warriors line were archers should be you dont need to move as much, it may be a bit strange at first with the current archer population but I think once the warrior population gets a boost we will start to see this realy working.

[_dracus_]

About movement cancelling spell casting, spells canceled this way should not go into cooldown IMO (like guild wars).

Like in every game :)

[na0miiihorus]

Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled

Can someone please explain this to me? =p I don't understand

Say if a warlock is running, and you hit sultar, you have to stand still anyway? I don't get it =D

[-Edge-]

Can someone please explain this to me? =p I don't understand

Say if a warlock is running, and you hit sultar, you have to stand still anyway? I don't get it =p
Instant spells and normal hits that allowed the ranged class to "float" sideways and backwards will simply no longer be possible. You need to stop to attack now.

Sultar does not go into that because it has a cast time, think of spells like Dual Shot which are instant, combined with piggyback. Spells used in combination's like these allowed the caster to run back considerable distance, while attacking without taking any damage.

[na0miiihorus]

Instant spells and normal hits that allowed the ranged class to "float" sideways and backwards will simply no longer be possible. You need to stop to attack now.

Sultar does not go into that because it has a cast time, think of spells like Dual Shot which are instant, combined with piggyback. Spells used in combination's like these allowed the caster to run back considerable distance, while attacking without taking any damage.

Oh i get ya, thanks :)

[e30G]

But if you move while casting sultar's, the casting gets cancelled?

[na0miiihorus]

But if you move while casting sultar's, the casting gets cancelled?

You can't move while casting it, if you're on autorun it automaticly stops you

[e30G]

You can't move while casting it, if you're on autorun it automaticly stops you

I meant in the new update.

[na0miiihorus]

I meant in the new update.

I dunno =p Guess we'll wait and see =/

[Onteron]

About movement cancelling spell casting, spells canceled this way should not go into cooldown IMO (like guild wars).

And also you have to hold down the movement key for about 0.75s before it cancels, so you can't do it accidentally. I think I'd like to see this feature in the game, although it changes the flow quite a bit.

However Chilko didn't actually mention cancelling of spells.

About global cooldown, I don't think it will change things much from how it is now, it's just that with the new double attack speed, they don't want people to be able to fire off powers at what would be an insane rate. I'm not sure if the global cooldown would be independant of the weapon speed, but the increased attack speed would actually make slow staffs useful, snce they'd be faster than the current fast staffs.

[e30G]

I thought I read that somewhere... I must be seeing things.

As for instants, how can you cancel an instant attack if you move?

[nole1]

Well, if you think that turn-based strategy games for ranged classes is better, why not?
Like that you could have more ranged classes on the "tarima", but sorry I will continue to be an assasin or in fact a dead assassin or a running assassin.
I just want a new prenium, it could be like a target over the head with this inscription:"Hit me, I'm on frozen mode!"


Take care, a normal hit on a buffed knight or a buffed marks could be negative.

I don't know why when you make some updates you always decrease the power of certain classes instead of increase the power of the others?
But, I'm too stupid i play a future frozen hunter.

Reguards

If they always increased power of other classes: 1. lvling would be too easy, 2. rvr would always end too fast

[DkySven]

Makin friends? Or trying to be funny?

Anyway:
The game ran 3 years unnoticed with a bug which removal changes archer gameplay by 180 degree.

I know it was more an effect of unfinished design from start, but you cant deny it became a much used and loved feature which added to tactics and skillful play. I pity to lose it since it removes a huge bit of micro-tactic without giving much new.

Well, first test - then decide whats worth it.

Not trying to be funny, just putting things as they are.

[Eaten]

Hopefully this will even the playing field a bit for warriors.

[Recoil]

This looks good, can't wait.:wub2:

[-Edge-]

As for instants, how can you cancel an instant attack if you move?
Mmm I'm guessing that would be the first part of Chilko's post. About the better synchronization between attacking that they will add now. I'm guessing it will even be very accurate. You simply won't be able to attack I guess if you moved, I guess there will be animation bugs, or it will be slowed.

But if you move while casting sultar's, the casting gets cancelled?
Would be nice, I can't count the number of times I've used an area at the wrong time, and there is no way to cancel its casting time. If it does work like this now, then I hope like you said they will not count the spell as casted, but simply interrupted with no change to cooldown.

[Saryad]

Ok how do i put this... im a marksman... i like slow and medium bows with long range that hit hard.
So am i now gonna have bows which hit ridiculously fast but are thoroughly pathetic in their damage output?
Doesnt this mean armor is effectively going to be impenetrable to me?

P.S. Am i going to have to become a SOTW spamming noob like every other archer :'(

[DemonMonger]

Hello everyone,

After a long time we finally had resources to address one of the most important issues in the combat system.

As you may know, in Regnum (as in most MMO games with simulation based movement) the client moves and he server just makes the appropriate corrections.

This implies that your position on your client is not necessary the same as the position perceived by other users.

We have tried different approaches to this such as client side prediction or lag compensation among others, the last iteration that its currently available offers higher fidelity (this means more network information) depending on priority (selected character has higher priority and then it goes from nearest to farthest character)

Although this new positioning system is a lot better than the ones we used before, melee classes are still having trouble nailing hits on their targets, why?

Well, it has to do with the fact that users see their opponents in the past (because of normal network lag) AND their actions are decided on the server. The server checks if it the user is in range or not, and users may think that they are on range but they are actually not in range (they are just seeing their future position in the server and the past position of their opponents).
After this, the server sends the attack result and the attack animation starts in the user client. This means that the whole action is held back artificially until the attack animation is complete desynchronizing everything.

We have now implemented a system in certain ways, reflects the movement system:


If you start moving when you press a key, you should be able to start attacking when your client thinks that you are in range.
Then, the server will validate and (by the time the attack animation is almost over) you will have the result of the attack (in much better synch).

This is the same solution used in most MMOs out there.

Now that all classes are more responsive we had to fix the following for balance reasons:



We fixed a bug in which ranged classes didn’t have to wait until the end of the round of their weapon (depending on weapon’s speed) to launch a power (Some archers have been using this bug in order to do a power and a normal hit in the same round).We did not know it was a bug - feature? Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled
I like this concept
Weapon speed for ranged classes is 100% faster to make game-play more dynamic (not having to stay still for a long time).Cool cool
If a power has casting time the casting will start immediately regardless of weapon speed NICE!
Weapon speed for warriors is 100% faster only for powers (the ones with casting time 0) NICE!
Some Powers that should not be affected by the weapon speed (such as some buffs) will Cast immediately.
Base attack damage for ranged classes will be reduced to maintain the same Damage per second ratio (the amount of this reduction has not been decided yet).This will be tricky bro since we lose 8 damage per hundred armor points on average. Archer vs boss monsters or knights will become more difficult.
Health and Maná regeneration speeds will be increased in all classes while resting and out of combat mode.COOL!
A global cooldown has been added for all powers to balance between fast and slow weapons. This cool down may be different per class and will allow us to add faster weapons in the future (such as dual wielding).YEs!!!!!

We know that we were trying not to make big adjustments like this, but this is the only way to re-balance base characteristics of melee and ranged classes one and for all. This change is also VERY important in order to provide better synchronicity that (along with the new animations) will provide for a more realistic and immersive experience. Don't swet it NGD, we needed this big adjustment. I'm sure everyone will love it once it's all said and done.
We will soon upload this changes on Amun to try them out… please remember it is still work in progress,

Best regards,

Chilko(Crowd Cheers)

This is awesome!!!!!!!
NGD does care about you all :wub2:

[Mellion]

Ok how do i put this... im a marksman... i like slow and medium bows with long range that hit hard.
So am i now gonna have bows which hit ridiculously fast but are thoroughly pathetic in their damage output?
Doesnt this mean armor is effectively going to be impenetrable to me?

P.S. Am i going to have to become a SOTW spamming noob like every other archer :'(

imagine the damage of fast 25m short bows: 10 - 9 - 18 crit -7 - 10....

I bet that targets will recover faster than archers do damage.

[e30G]

Whatever the damage reduction is, the DPS should be the same as it is now AFTER armor reduction.

[Comp]

My only fear is the same that Saint talked about.

Example: As a hunter there are many warriors where I only do 80 damage to and even less at times. So...with these changes I'll do considerable less damage? Whoa.

Also....will arrow prices reduce DRASTICALLY with the increased attack speed for archers? They are already stupid expensive.

[ArchmagusArcana]

As far as the movement canceling a spell thing, I think imob would be far preferable. Either way, im happy about it, but it will take a lot more adjustment to have to guess just how long the spell animation will take to complete (and likely overcompensate and stand still too long).

I am thrilled about that piggyback fix, seriously, though its going to make grinding my hunter a bitch.

To all you archers, im not trying to be a dick, but now you know what us warriors have been going through the last few updates, area nerf, ons nerf (the signature spell that almost every single barb had), we had to completely change the way we played to deal with all of these massive changes to our class. I sincerely wish you the best of luck adapting to these changes. It will be hard, no doubt about it, but i think that after the FINAL VERSION of these changes hit the live server, im sure its going to make the game better for everyone.

As for arrow cost, i see it getting even more out of hand than it is. My proposal: A quiver that you wear, infinite arrows, but with durability linked to the bow. It will still incur the same repair costs as other players get (more or less), but not be so retardedly expensive, so some balance can be maintained and these poor archers dont need to grind their faces off or beg for money to be able to war.

To NGD: Please please please give us ample time to test and give you feedback on the changes. Yes, they are massive changes, and for the most part it seems most people like them, myself included, but we need to have a fair amount of time to test then and see what really works and what maybe not so much. Just my two cents on that matter.

[Dannboy]

Remember, real men cant multitask. Therefore they cant cast and move at the same time. These chages are great ^^
And since Syrtis is full of Archers I look forward to see them stand still.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Remember, real men cant multitask. Therefore they cant cast and move at the same time. These chages are great ^^
And since Syrtis is full of Archers I look forward to see them stand still.

I look forward to them all starting warriors so we can get some class number balance for a change.

[King_Of_Angmar]

To me this is reason to play my hunter again, who has been boring for me to get on for so long as killing is relatively easy. Thank you for the challenge (an im not being at all sarcastic here).

The only thing that really worries me is that if i do even less damage then im not going to be hitting much harder than 20 damage per hit :P and i like to play ninja at times so without a pet my damage wont be worth crap :\ As far as i see, this is almost forcing hunters to play with pets.

[Klutu]

I look forward to them all starting warriors so we can get some class number balance for a change.

Syrtis Mass Warriors!! :D

/me gets Ready for Revenge <3

[Saryad]

I suppose i shall just have to start playing my conju as main if archers are going to be forced to hit like pussies.
Even NGD i doubt will find a need to 'balance' heals and dispel.

[w_larsen]

i have proposal - reduce moving speed to 25% while attacking with ranged. it would avoid frustration about need of being totally still and reduce possibility to basically escape while firing.

edit: or something like this, as you can't plainly reduce moving speed.

[R_of_WWT]

With archers shooting more arrows they will need to drop in price considerably. Otherwise ill just have to change classes its already expensive to play a marksman. Ide also like passive or semi passive spells that buff attack range to affect spell range it makes no logical since that we can shoot farther and not a spell with it. Otherwise marksman's choice of spells that can keep up with his range is getting quiet small to chose from ... soon ill just have to use a short bow assassin build and ide rather not have to do that.

[Vaylos]

I am thoroughly enjoying these changes. Every last one of them. I like the global cooldown/readiness of skills being independent of whether or not a normal shot is ready or not. (I hope I understood that right) Having skills/spells independent of your weapon being ready makes combat a LOT more dynamic.

I still think strafing needs to be the same speed as backpedal though.

As for moving canceling your shots, that should be normal, unless you're moving REALLY slowly, or within about 5 meter range. Because honestly if you're dancing around with a bow and arrow, and your target is also moving around, you're not going to hit anything at any kind of range. So this change is common sense to me. I think only melee should be able to move and attack. Possibly mages too, since I wouldn't think a mage "aims" the same way an archer does hehe.

However, if moving around cancels any kind of skill casts, I don't think that should throw the skill into cooldown since you're (either willingly or unwillingly) moving. By moving you've interrupted the skill/spell action, which means you haven't used the skill yet. I look at it like this: clicking the button and going through the cast time/animation is like priming the skill for use, and then after that ends and the skill is fired off, it goes into cooldown. Moving would cancel the priming, so the spell/skill was never triggered, so there should be no cooldown.

Still, we hunters (and marks too) are going to need to rethink our playing styles and choose our skills more carefully. I mean that in a good way though. I think we're going to be using our debuffs and controlling skills a whole lot more now. (or a whole lot more escapist/sotw whichever lol)

Anyway good work NGD, can't wait to see how things work out. And thanks again for explaining the issues with the host/client syncing. Hopefully the new method will work well, and hammer in the final nail on that old problem. It sounds like it will. :)

[Zas_]

I will wait tests on Amun to give my opinion about those changes...

But will you fix long standing minor bugs we all know about and bugs introduced in 1.0.7 before those changes ?

[Southern_Filly]

Stupid question but... isnt this really going to make grinding alot harder also? Especially for archers? Is there anything that can be done about that as the current grinding method already really stinks.
Thanks for keeping us informed and cant wait to try them out on Amun.

[ArchmagusArcana]

Stupid question but... isnt this really going to make grinding alot harder also? Especially for archers? Is there anything that can be done about that as the current grinding method already really stinks.
Thanks for keeping us informed and cant wait to try them out on Amun.

They have already said that they want warriors to be fastest grinding class. So im sure that yes, part of this is intended to make grinding a bit slower for archers, and a bit faster for warriors. Still, the class they want to grind the slowest, is still the fastest.

[Godot]

good questions about backpeddle(kiting) ,what I want to know is will you have
to wait until projectile/spell impact to resume movement or will your shot be wasted if you start kiting after you shoot?

[Yttrium]

A global cooldown has been added for all powers to balance between fast and slow weapons. This cool down may be different per class and will allow us to add faster weapons in the future (such as dual wielding).

Currently, the main reason to use a fast weapon is for casting powers faster. Does this negate that purpose? If so, will fast weapons have any new uses?

[Punti_X]

Nice of NGD that informed us.
Looking forward to test it.
Comments after testing.
Suggest ALL people from wz go and test it in large groups and comment / whine after few hours of serious testing.

[King_Of_Angmar]

They have already said that they want warriors to be fastest grinding class. So im sure that yes, part of this is intended to make grinding a bit slower for archers, and a bit faster for warriors. Still, the class they want to grind the slowest, is still the fastest.

Isn't there a way to do that without destroying the grind of the other two? Like fil said....grinding is already a pain.

[ArchmagusArcana]

I would think that bonus xp as a class feature to warriors would really be the easiest way to do it, but i dont know what they have planned.....

[Klutu]

i like the overall update yet i have alot of range friends so i do feel for them.

but im also curious if theres any plans on Server/Realm Transfers on this Update.
me and many many others are excited for it and are hoping it's gonna soon become a reality.
maybe a word from NGD about this? :)

[Saryad]

Nice of NGD that informed us.
Looking forward to test it.
Comments after testing.
Suggest ALL people from wz go and test it in large groups and comment / whine after few hours of serious testing.

Im in, when its loaded on amun can we set a day and time here on the forum so as many as possible can make it?

[-Edge-]

Im in, when its loaded on amun can we set a day and time here on the forum so as many as possible can make it?
Good idea, lets wait till Amun opens up then, and we can organize a date on the forum.

[Kianoni]

Good idea, lets wait till Amun opens up then, and we can organize a date on the forum.

count me in - if I'm not at work.

[Thistle]

Stupid question but... isnt this really going to make grinding alot harder also? Especially for archers? Is there anything that can be done about that as the current grinding method already really stinks.
Thanks for keeping us informed and cant wait to try them out on Amun.

I think the changes are going to make group play even more necessary for archers. It's all about teamwork... and working in a cooperative team is very effective for grinding. We can all adapt to the changes together, learn how to balance our teams and still have loads of fun.

[Saryad]

On the grinding front im kinda annoyed, its possible to get a really good rythm with a marks and a slow bow. And i find it a really good way of relaxing :P

[Nikor]

On the grinding front im kinda annoyed, its possible to get a really good rythm with a marks and a slow bow. And i find it a really good way of relaxing :P

Same for me. Too bad if that will not be possible anymore.

[Immune]

On the grinding front im kinda annoyed, its possible to get a really good rythm with a marks and a slow bow. And i find it a really good way of relaxing :P

You're one of very few people I know who would put "grinding" and "relaxing" in the same sentance lilke that lol.

I don't mind the archer changes so much, as long as the overall impact on teamwork is a positive one.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

# A global cooldown has been added for all powers to balance between fast and slow weapons. This cool down may be different per class and will allow us to add faster weapons in the future (such as dual wielding).

what does this mean?

[theotherhiveking]

# A global cooldown has been added for all powers to balance between fast and slow weapons. This cool down may be different per class and will allow us to add faster weapons in the future (such as dual wielding).

what does this mean?

Its a common thing in mmorpg with insane attack speed (runes of magic for example)

Basically, when you start casting a spell, all others enter in a very short cooldown (usually 2-3 seconds) so you dont cast 5 spells at once.

[ArchmagusArcana]

Its a common thing in mmorpg with insane attack speed (runes of magic for example)

Basically, when you start casting a spell, all others enter in a very short cooldown (usually 2-3 seconds) so you dont cast 5 spells at once.

2-3 seconds would make locks worthless, so im hoping they limit it to a second or so max.

[Mellion]

most Archer spells would be useless too. Range of bows are much too short. 20m for a short bow is a joke!!!

[Saryad]

most Archer spells would be useless too. Range of bows are much too short. 20m for a short bow is a joke!!!

Get a longbow :D

[Arafails]

Yes but 20m for a guaranteed hit while moving backwards and sideways is hardly realistic either....

[UmarilsStillHere]

Yes but 20m for a guaranteed hit while moving backwards and sideways is hardly realistic either....

And 20m is a lot more that warriors get :sifflote:

[_Enio_]

And 20m is a lot more that warriors get :sifflote:

1.2k+ normals is also alot more then any archer gets..

Thats the deal with rangeds vs melees.
Dmg both doin shud be same takin into account time the melee neeeds to get close. Then both get tools to overcome the other sides tools to mitigate/do dmg. In RO we get another thing taken into account. Area dmg&tools weight in givin the area class a penalty vs 1 to balance out the vantage they got vs group impact. etc..

Problem:
RO seems to have too many factors though to get a balance evryone is happy with..
Also we got uncounterable combinations wich work solo and not very situational. Skill is for a big part know timing for one of these combinations. not so much in the fight itself.

Spells that diminish fun in-fight by takin away counter-options (to some extend):
SoW,LP, superior speed passively, Unstoppable Madness, [SM+Steelskin+Mindblank], Ao1

[UmarilsStillHere]

The problem is archers and mages can fight as well at range 30 (more 25 for locks) as they can at range 6 (just out of warrior spear range) or even range 0. Warriors however can only function at this very very limited range, which is to be expected, after all I didnt expect massive range when picking a warrior class, but but another thing I didnt expect is archers and mages outfighting me at point blank range. Dancing around, using some CC then running back to range 30 etc...

UM dosnt diminish anything in group fights, in one on one it means you will get close to a ranged opponant without taking a load of cc spells first, without it you may never get near your opponant at all, however vs another barb both using UM is pretty boring and kind of kills the fight. And in a group, well it gives you a tiny chance to get anywere near enemy lines without them being held down by sultars, and even then pure damage will likely stop you before you are in range.

[Mellion]

I bought sockets for my short bows. Sorry, I want my xims back. SB are my main weapons as Hunter and MArks.

[_Enio_]

The problem is archers and mages can fight as well at range 30 (more 25 for locks) as they can at range 6 (just out of warrior spear range) or even range 0. Warriors however can only function at this very very limited range, which is to be expected, after all I didnt expect massive range when picking a warrior class, but but another thing I didnt expect is archers and mages outfighting me at point blank range. Dancing around, using some CC then running back to range 30 etc...

UM dosnt diminish anything in group fights, in one on one it means you will get close to a ranged opponant without taking a load of cc spells first, without it you may never get near your opponant at all, however vs another barb both using UM is pretty boring and kind of kills the fight. And in a group, well it gives you a tiny chance to get anywere near enemy lines without them being held down by sultars, and even then pure damage will likely stop you before you are in range.

Wanna tell me a good balance would be when melee can come close to rangeds without them having tools to get away?
There must be a balance between this all. something you can do to not get CCd to death but also sth the range can do to not get screwd by insane closedmg. All actions should be counterable with skill. then we had a real fight where decisions which require skill( knowing timings,classes spells,movement etc) give the outcome. atm its very onesided in some situations (no choices for either ranged or melee to react).


Try to look on it from an outside perspective, your writing sounds pretty much melee biased. Im not writing Pro-ranged only because i play Marks, im trying to figure out a balancing-way without getting new 100%-combinations.

[UmarilsStillHere]

You may have noticed I have a marks, I have not played him one on one much, and vs warriors only realy Vs Fayablasta, who is hardly a good knight, but still regardless of him being prebuffed and being 7 or so level above me I won with ease, and have done vs him several times, we will see how these changes effect things, but right now speaking as a Barb, and in a limited way, a Knight and Marks I do feal that the ranged class's have far to much of an advantage, you should not be able to keep warriors out of range so easily, most of the time simply by moving.

[_Enio_]

you should not be able to keep warriors out of range so easily, most of the time simply by moving.

Well then i dont know why your so happy about the update since it wont change anything on that issue.

[e30G]

Well the new update potentially means:

Positioning bugs fixed which would potentially increase warrior hit rates on their targets.
Ranged units having to stop more/longer for hits to come out allowing melee warriors to catch up. Add to this the lower damage of single hits, if you can't time your shots and movements perfectly, a warrior will have a higher chance of getting to you with substantially more hp than he would have in the past.
A global cooldown of spells that will limit the rate at which spells can be cast (will hurt mages the most IMO).


All of these are interesting changes.

Although I play ranged classes, I am neither against this change nor for it. As much as I hate to think of it, I believe that NGD wants range classes to be almost good as dead if a warrior gets to them. Since this is an RvR game, NGD might be aiming that ranged classes (archers and mages) will have to rely on allies to control an attacking warrior and allow a ranged ally to escape.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Well then i dont know why your so happy about the update since it wont change anything on that issue.

Well that depends on how long archers will need to stand still before shooting, also I suspect that if movement will cancel the attack that "slide shooting" may become impossible.

Also the loss of piggy backing will mean ranged class's cant piggy an Ensnare, or Ambush.

We will see how things play out once Amun goes live.

[e30G]

They can still potentially piggyback as casting spells will be completely independent of weapon attack (you can cast as soon as a normal launches).

[UmarilsStillHere]

They can still potentially piggyback as casting spells will be completely independent of weapon attack (you can cast as soon as a normal launches).

Didnt think of that :p

[Klutu]

Didnt think of that :p


ptptptpt

:fsm:

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I like the way that this is going towards balance, but regnum has a unique balance system which I think should be kept for 2 reasons, specially the global cooldown is what I'm thinking of here but this is mostly when I play my warlock

*faster combat
*more strategical choise of weapon(conserving mana)/spell damage
*having to learn everything all over

as much as I like it now It does have it flaws (piggybag "feature")

[ArchmagusArcana]

I am mostly worried about that global CD. It seems like a good idea, but if its longer than 1 second, its really going to rape mages, archers too i think. I usea fast staff, medium is too slow for me, so even 1 second is a long time in that respect. I guess we have to wait and see.

[Onteron]

They can still potentially piggyback as casting spells will be completely independent of weapon attack (you can cast as soon as a normal launches).

This is what I don't understand,


If a power has casting time the casting will start immediately regardless of weapon speed


Seems to contradict:


We fixed a bug in which ranged classes didn’t have to wait until the end of the round of their weapon (depending on weapon’s speed) to launch a power (Some archers have been using this bug in order to do a power and a normal hit in the same round).

[_Enio_]

They can still potentially piggyback as casting spells will be completely independent of weapon attack (you can cast as soon as a normal launches).

Gcd will fire in there too, no piggyback anymore.

[Onteron]

I am mostly worried about that global CD. It seems like a good idea, but if its longer than 1 second, its really going to rape mages, archers too i think. I usea fast staff, medium is too slow for me, so even 1 second is a long time in that respect. I guess we have to wait and see.

I don't understand the worry about global cooldown. Where's the evidence it will be longer than it is currently? Which by the way, is already about 2 seconds with a fast weapon.

[VandaMan]

This is what I don't understand
[...]

I think the difference is that you cannot piggy-back the instant attacks anymore. You could piggyback an ensnaring arrow or ambush, but not a duel shot or shield piercing. (if I'm understanding it correctly)

[UmarilsStillHere]

50 Barbarian

I see your Epic now :sifflote: :p

[Immune]

I have a question about the gcd...

In the "How to Play" window while in game, under the 'spell book' section, it is stated there is already a 3 second waiting period between spells.

You also stated in the OP that each class should have a different gcd time after this update.

So, I'm assuming this means that mages will basically have the same gcd time as we do now, while warriors will have longer gcd time to compensate for the attack speed that future duel wielding will give? And what of archers? Or has it not been figured out that far?

[max127]

all right, i read what chilko said. but i didn't read what u guys wrote there.
didn't have much time, sry.

i think NGD is making archers' life more worse
here is what i think u need to do, NGD [just a suggestion]

about 'reducing bow dmg'
- instead of reducing bow dmg, remove arrows (so problem with lacking of gold will be over). make arrows unlimitted, or just leave the init arrows and don't forget to put them in all shops, not only in first villages(i think no one will have problems buying them xD)

about 'the +100% attack speed'
- ill say it clearly and easy 'NGD wants us to buy Repair Hammers', but im ok with that once NGD reduces repair costs for bows xD (right now, im not 'ok' with this bonus)

about 'no attacking while moving'
- this isn't real and will not make game dynamic. im serious NGD, if u want to make us not run from warriors, u can do something else like.........reducing Hit Chance when archers move and shoot (but don't reduce it too much so we can never hit while moving,){this is just a thought} [ik some archers will hate me from now, Im hunter myself]


so, i think this is it.
if ill have other suggestion ill write them. i just wanna hear what u guys 'AND' NGD think about the stuff that i wrote above.

cya guys, and don't forget to 'have fun' xD

[Onteron]

I have a question about the gcd...

In the "How to Play" window while in game, under the 'spell book' section, it is stated there is already a 3 second waiting period between spells.


Good find. Well much of that help text is wrong/out of date and if there is currently a minimum time between spells it's certainly less than 3s.


You also stated in the OP that each class should have a different gcd time after this update.


So, I'm assuming this means that mages will basically have the same gcd time as we do now, while warriors will have longer gcd time to compensate for the attack speed that future duel wielding will give? And what of archers? Or has it not been figured out that far?


He said it may be different for each class. I think they probably don't know what it will be for each class yet.

[e30G]

Gcd will fire in there too, no piggyback anymore.

Well it will depend on how long GCD is for your class. You might not be able to launch spells on normals then 1 mpre immediately after, but you can still time your spells to either go with normals and between normals.

I don't understand the worry about global cooldown. Where's the evidence it will be longer than it is currently? Which by the way, is already about 2 seconds with a fast weapon.

Isn't it even faster than that now? I thought 2 seconds was for a medium weapon?

[_Enio_]

Prolly right you are, i reread all and it seems we get a GCD which fires only in-between powers. Normal attacks seems to be independent from Power casting. Still isnt logic to me. (youd end up killing a stun with a normal that runs independent to your cast eg.) so i think we can only wait and check whats really meant.

[Klutu]

I see your Epic now :sifflote: :p

Yeah i took your advice and became Epic!

:D

[ArchmagusArcana]

Isn't it even faster than that now? I thought 2 seconds was for a medium weapon?

For me, i can cast ALMOST instant, with just fast staff, with arcane accell, i can cast instant, so its got to be less than 2 seconds, even less than one.....i THOUGHT, that gcd for fast weapon was .75 seconds, but i could be wrong.

[Mellion]

The worst behind those changes are a general game design error: there is no use for warriors anymore. So, let the other 4 classes suffer.

Instead of a USELESS combat change, set limits on how many chars of one class in one realm can be online the same time.

With or without a new combat system a warrior attacked by 3 archers will be dead.

[MalaTempora]

i would just say that one month ago i stopped play with my hunter
cause i think was too way strong, and restart doing a knight, ok
i'm not a deep core player (cause i've really really low spare time) but
seeing archers firing and running is a paradox, i've a longbow (in RL) and
firing, recharging and running are 3 things that are not compatible each
other..

Also backpedaling was too fast, really, with my hunter (that is not so
higher in lvl) i can ovverrun easily ppl of too higher lvl than me..

i was really happy to hear that this mods will fix this..

Keep up the good work.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I dont think imposing any sort of class numbers limit is the way to go, its to restricting, and what if the whole realms alowance of conjus are low level grinders or warjus?

Also the populations on the servers differ so much they would need to be custom made and kept up to date, what would work on RA will be ineffective on Horus, and what would work on eg Tyrs would totaly destroy Ra.

[Onteron]

Isn't it even faster than that now? I thought 2 seconds was for a medium weapon?

For me, i can cast ALMOST instant, with just fast staff, with arcane accell, i can cast instant, so its got to be less than 2 seconds, even less than one.....i THOUGHT, that gcd for fast weapon was .75 seconds, but i could be wrong.

The time I am talking about is the time between the end of the casting period of the first spell and the beginning of the casting period of the next.

| -- Spell Casting -- | -- Interval Period -- | -- Spell Casting -- |

There will still be some animation of the first spell going on in this interval period. The interval time is dependent on attack speed but not on the casting time of the spells (if no +cast speed is introduced, see below).

These few tests (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tXd3tS6tp91Qu2HHeSFT5ug&gid=1) show this time to be around 1.9s for fast weapons and 2.5s for medium. (So if it's faster for other people I'd like to see what I'm missing out on :)). These times are the same as the attack speeds for weapons (http://regnum.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_speed#Speed). So if the spells are instant it will be just like normal hits.

However once +cast speed is introduced, things get tricky to measure. Unless the cast speed is a perfect 50% just from ArcDev(5), the casting bar doesn't show for the correct length of time and different spells seem to react differently to cast speed with regards to the casting bar and their animation. So the numbers from these tests (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tXd3tS6tp91Qu2HHeSFT5ug&gid=0) won't be quite right but still show similar numbers, just under 2s with a fast staff, and around a further 25% chopped off with arcane acceleration as expected.

[ArchmagusArcana]

The time I am talking about is the time between the end of the casting period of the first spell and the beginning of the casting period of the next.

| -- Spell Casting -- | -- Interval Period -- | -- Spell Casting -- |



Exactly so, though i worded it maybe poorly. Animations maybe do get in the way i suppose, but with dev5 and accel1 i can cast nonstop (as far as animation is concerned), even with just an extra 4% on gloves and staff (using fast staff). Meh, i guess ill have to wait for test server to go online to see what its going to be like.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

when I think about it the combat system in regnum is unique and I think that it might be a good idea to keep it this way :) but still removing the piggybag bug

[chilko]

when I think about it the combat system in regnum is unique and I think that it might be a good idea to keep it this way :) but still removing the piggybag bug

We know that the combat system is unique.
It is also uniquely flawed.

As an example, there are classes that are so fun to play because they can do whatever they want over other classes.
On the other hand, there are classes that are just too frustrating because you have almost no chance to hit your enemies and when you do, technical issues make it very difficult to actually nail a blow.


Also, in videogames, FUN usually has a direct relation with (fair) challenge

Once archers find out that their enemy warriors are actually a challenge they will enjoy greater rewards (as in entertainment value) per encounter.
also, balancing, will be much easier once technical issues have been fixed .

We have been playing with the new version and we believe that this is a HUGE improvement. Hopefully we will open up Amun tomorrow...

Regards,

-Chilko

[johan1234]

Sounds great. Cant wait to see it in action.

[ArchmagusArcana]

Outstanding. Cannot wait to try it out! Thanks for the update.

[Kasp1]

a) Marksmen are already too expensive (arrows + repairs), double arrows and repairs for bows would kill me, there's need for something to be done about this.

b) Normal hit based spells (such as rapid shot or lethal strike) should be balanced with lower normals.

c)

Well, it has to do with the fact that users see their opponents in the past...


If you start moving when you press a key, you should be able to start attacking when your client thinks that you are in range.
Then, the server will validate and (by the time the attack animation is almost over) you will have the result of the attack (in much better synch).



Don't understand this much. If my client thinks I'm able to hit someone who I see in past in front of me and in present he's behind me... The one will on his client see me that I'm dealing damage on him while sallying out to the other side?

Also can't understand this:


Well, it has to do with the fact that users see their opponents in the past...


If you start moving when you press a key, you should be able to start attacking when your client thinks that you are in range.
Then, the server will validate and (by the time the attack animation is almost over) you will have the result of the attack (in much better synch).
Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled.



When my client thinks I can attack, I guess I'll do it and when I'll start attacking, there will be some info about my attack sent to the server to validate it. If I move during an attack, I guess the client will send info about canceling it to the server (I guess the server isn't able to find out if I moved while attacking or after the attack cause of the lag mentioned, so the server isn't able to find out if I have really canceled the attack or not, so it's up to the client). Then it will be like: I do an attack -> server validates it, success -> server sends info about success to my client -> my client shows success and the animation is almost over -> I move before the animation is over -> my client sends the canceling info to the server -> and then what? the attack is canceled and I'll see on my client that I've done damage but I haven't done any? Can't understand how it's supposed to work, anybody has a clue?


i have proposal - reduce moving speed to 25% while attacking with ranged. it would avoid frustration about need of being totally still and reduce possibility to basically escape while firing.


Sounds much better to me, there would be no need to care about canceling.

[Mellion]

We have been playing with the new version and we believe that this is a HUGE improvement. Hopefully we will open up Amun tomorrow...

Regards,

-Chilko

Chilko, you know, that most good players I started with 2+y ago left the game, because of your "HUGH improvements".

[Recoil]

wow :) yes please open up Amun (: :wub2:

[Arafails]

Tomorrow has never been so far away?

[e30G]

So far away and we don't have a guarantee that it will come yet. I don't mind though. Polish things up before releasing it for public testing.

[Saryad]

wow :) yes please open up Amun (: :wub2:

I see this thread is just vindictive warriors being happy because someone else got nerfed.

[Creror]

I see this thread is just vindictive warriors being happy because someone else got nerfed.

Well, when I'm think about it ... I have to say:

Yes, we warriors are happy. At the time before all of those updates, the archers were happy for being "overpowered". ... In my optionen it's already time to weaken all archers.

[Saryad]

Ok the main thing that i dislike about this is now it seems im not going to be able to sit back and fire some relatively slow normals which are nice and hard so rip through armor.
Now it looks like im gonna have to MG all the time.
I cant play marks how i believe NGD intended with +100% attack speed :(

[Angelwinged_Devil]

We know that the combat system is unique.
It is also uniquely flawed.

As an example, there are classes that are so fun to play because they can do whatever they want over other classes.
On the other hand, there are classes that are just too frustrating because you have almost no chance to hit your enemies and when you do, technical issues make it very difficult to actually nail a blow.


Also, in videogames, FUN usually has a direct relation with (fair) challenge

Once archers find out that their enemy warriors are actually a challenge they will enjoy greater rewards (as in entertainment value) per encounter.
also, balancing, will be much easier once technical issues have been fixed .

We have been playing with the new version and we believe that this is a HUGE improvement. Hopefully we will open up Amun tomorrow...

Regards,

-Chilko

yes it's flawed but it's still unique in a good way, it produces fast paced combat which I like, and I think taking away the fast paced combat will be a bad move, but I haven't tried the new system yet with all the implementations alltogether, I just don't hope it's too much changed but I'll look forward to trying it out, great thing I'm not going to school rest of the week :D, these are good news

[Arafails]

I'm excited about the changes to the combat system regarding target availability rather than any changes to nerf archers (which might be a bonus... well the having to stay still to shoot anyway.) Maybe there'll be some marksman specific very slow bows in the future?

[Myxir]

The changes to combat system sound good imo.
It sounds like it could improve gameplay.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Chilko, you know, that most good players I started with 2+y ago left the game, because of your "HUGH improvements".

More likely they got bored of the game, then used the changes since they started as a ragequit firewood.

No matter how fun something is it starts to ware eventually, especialy if its been the exact same for 2 years.

[Klutu]

Loving this Update even more by each day xD

Amun opening up today i know a Certain Marksman is Waiting :P

[Klutu]

More likely they got bored of the game, then used the changes since they started as a ragequit firewood.

No matter how fun something is it starts to ware eventually, especialy if its been the exact same for 2 years.

my thoughts exact!

:D

[Saryad]

Well two certain marksmen :p

[UmarilsStillHere]

Amun opening up today i know a Certain Marksman is Waiting :P

Ill be seeing if its worth continuing to seriously level my marks as a new main, if my barb becomes a viable class again then Ill just level it as a side char :)

Recently have had a fair ammount of fun on Faith, but I seem to be running into battles with more warriors recently, which is a nice change from seeing 90% archers with 1 or 2 warriors guarding the gate or spamming arse auras :)

[max127]

guys, NGD, i asked for some replies to my post, just tell me if u like it or not,
[/me feels ignored ;(((]

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

just played the new system on Amun game pace is much faster and excellent i did hav a problem where if i moved casting ripost or Army of one i cancells it is this a bug or will i just not have to touch my laptops arrow keys when casting these spells?

as for ranged classes having to stay still to attack...... Good yeah might get on your nerves that dancing is pretty much a thing of the past for anyone except warriors but at least we warriors stand a chance of catching a hunter out in the open.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

I love you.

However if archer attacks will be faster, but less powerfull then arrow cost should be cut by a lot, its to much as it is, with this it will bankrupt archers in a month.

And can the server handle +100% speed archer hits, fast bows will be like miniguns wont they?

I used a fast short bow for grinding before and if i used my lvl 4 rapidshot, it would fire again as soon as the animation was done. So if attack speed is doubled (same as incresed by 100% for the idiots out there), the archers would shoot faster than the animation can loop.

also i just bought 3000 of some lvl 34 arrows and it cost me about 15K, if i use my fast short bow, it eats through them with in 7-8 hours of grinding, if attack speed is doubled, it will make the cost of arrows go up by 100% also. making it about 30K per 7-8 hours. little much isnt it?