Combat system test - Amun - Phase 2

[chilko]

Hello,

We have uploaded some fixes to Amun to continue testing the combat system

Fixed


Fights between characters of the same realm (coliseum - duel)
Bug with warriors able to start casting while in motion
Bug With fake combat mode in certain situations
Bug with warriors "attacking" corpses


Changes:


Initial NORMAL attack of ranged clases requires 50% of the weapon speed if one round was completed during movement
If the power has casting time it will stop the character when running (it can be cancelled by starting running again though.
Powers without casting get pre-casted for two seconds until being in range.


Trying:

* Retaliation and Low profile have been changed to casting time 0. Please remember that the casting times of many spells may need to be revised and nothing is definitive.

Please,

Continue reporting bugs and suggestions in this thread

[-Edge-]

I think it is very crucial for Conjurers to have their heals and supportive spells at 0 casting time. (Dispell, Regen, Heal, Synergy Bond being the big ones)

It is going to be very hard to even get a couple heals in sometimes, people will adjust, but it is also going to be annoying.

[Mattdoesrock]

Eurgh... Low Profile instant.... 0.5 or 1s cast was perfectly reasonable for that.

I am glad that retalitation is instant again.

But please please please... There are more spells that NEED less cast time.

Dispell, Mind Push, Synergy Bond and Healing (Heal Ally, Regen Ally) need to be instant. Please, for the sake of balance and gameplay give these spells instant cast.

[Znurre]

Autoswing for warriors does not work.
You have to stop in order to hit sometimes.

Is this intended?
Also, casting non-instant buffs while moving will stop your character slightly but then you automatically start running again which will cancel the buff.

[e30G]

Test fort war just now. From a support conjurer's perspective it's downright annoying and a bit boring to play the class. Too much time is spent waiting for a heal to cast, and too much time is wasted waiting for the next spell to cast.

Support spells should be instant. Playing conjurer is hard enough already as it is. Few people even want to play support roles now, and your making it more frustrating for the few that stick to the class' role.

[theotherhiveking]

Is the double weapon speed when casting instant powers working?
I tried with all offensive instant spells i have and they all take as long as before to get launched.

[_Enio_]

Couldnt test yet, but for me offensive spells should not make you stop when your about to precast them.

Eg. I want a quick ambush on someone chasing me. I precast ambush and turn+stop -> cast should go off.

Otherwise you will get troubles hitting a spell in time when you have to turn same second. (eg. You strafe out of some tree to instantly freeze which is eg, on bar1 slot 10. Without precast you have to either klick (Cant turn same time) or release arrow keys (no movement).

[chassor]

spells attacks must stop you , you should not have to stop to attack or launch a spell ,

NGD keep it simple , the gameplay was fun and you are destroying it.

if you are doing so for the barb just gives something to barbs don't remove all times , as it seems now warriors will be the next gods and then you will nerf them , and then nerfs again another classes and then and then ...

[GIO879]

allways decrease , never increase
Just give more speed in onslaugh ( bye exemple 50%) for the charge for the barb
the knight just a little more block
Don't touch at the archer all is good before your update
And for the mage i don't now i don't play one

you 'r realy search a lot of complications for nothing

[Znurre]

as it seems now warriors will be the next gods and then you will nerf them , and then nerfs again another classes and then and then ...I have played warrior (barb) for 2.5+ years now, and i bet I hate these changes as much as you do.

The only good thing I saw with these changes (casting of non-instant skills while moving, that could actually have made fights more dynamic) was considered a bug and removed.

Now the fights are changed into static "who cast what skills and when" fights, where archers can simply stand shooting at each other without moving since that would give them a disadvantage.

Warriors on the other hand will be even more boring to play now.
Fighting never felt so slow like now, it feels like that update long time ago when global cooldown based on weapon speed was introduced.

On top of this - the problem that these changes were to solve is still present, if not worse than before.
I find myself unable to attack 7 times out of 10 as warrior.

So, my take on these changes: it won't improve the fun for anyone but only degrade gameplay quality for everyone, no matter the class.

[chilko]

Couldnt test yet, but for me offensive spells should not make you stop when your about to precast them.

Eg. I want a quick ambush on someone chasing me. I precast ambush and turn+stop -> cast should go off.

this is an exploit that only a very experienced player can get advantage of... you want to start casting when you are not meeting the criteria of FACING THE ENEMY.

[chilko]

Couldnt test yet, but for me offensive spells should not make you stop when your about to precast them.

Eg. I want a quick ambush on someone chasing me. I precast ambush and turn+stop -> cast should go off.


this is an exploit that only a very experienced player can get advantage of... you want to start casting when you are not meeting the criteria of FACING THE ENEMY and its only a couple of hundred milliseconds.

this kind of things generates unbalance between people with LOW PING and HIGH PING. Stuff that we also want to fix.

[e30G]

Yeah I saw that vid of yours Znurre.

Another sideffect I see with this update, there will be less open field wars. It will be more fort-centric. At fort wars, mages and archers will stick inside forts. Attackers will be lead by warriors which is intended, but they will have less support behind them. They will also have to face more un-attackable ranged classes on walls. It will be very hard to take a fort. As someone in IRC said, Syrtis will live inside Samal. :D

[chilko]

Is the double weapon speed when casting instant powers working?
I tried with all offensive instant spells i have and they all take as long as before to get launched.

its not for casting, but for normal attacks

[Mattdoesrock]

I'll post my thoughts here as the other thread was closed it seems...

Warlock:

God dammit.

This class is awful now. The global cooldown has crippled their attack speed. You can EASILY use slow staves now because of the global cooldown... What a joke... What is the point of < slow staves now?

The global cooldown for Warlocks (and Conjurers) needs to be vastly increased. Decreasing their attack speed anymore than they did with 1.0.7. is just a complete and utter mistake. The global cooldown needs to be the same as base fast stave speed.

Another thing.. The "feel" of playing a Warlock is really awkward now... The animations are really really clunky and difficult, making it really hard to know when you're allowed to move again... Otherwise you end up cancelling your spell; which is really deadly, especially as everything is 1s cast now.

You need to make spell cancelling "harder." By that, I mean it is painfully easy to accidently cancell your own spell. Now I know it's still new, and we need to practice, but even still... Personally I think that your spells should not be cancelled, and instead you should be immobilised on the sport, and should be unable to move for the the duration of your attack. Another option is a heavy speed malnus when attacking - instead of cancelling spells.

Also, sometimes you can accidently cancel your spells by moving the camera.

Marksmen:

Now call me crazy... But I don't mind this update so much.

I mean sure, it sucks... But that's just because we've enjoyed having it easy for so long, and please don't say "wtf, it's not been easy!!" Please. Play a Barb or Knight at 50 for awhile. You'll soon learn what difficulty is.

Before this update, I knew on my Marks, I was safe vs. the majority of Warriors, I can tank nicely if I want, I can run, I can escape and still do great damage.. But now, now I have to work to stay alive, and I really have to earn my kills.

I think this will be really tough to to used to at first, but it's far more rewarding. In the pvps I did on amun this morning, I lost nearly all of them. But it was far more rewarding then winning all of them, like I might have on RA. Now I'm not saying I'm the best Marks there, far from it, and others may adapt far more easily; but I think some people are really exaggerating how this is the end of the world for Archers. It's not, it's just been normalised within RO.

BUT! One thing I have to say is that this is a little bit too much, too soon.
I think duel shot should be 0.5 casting time at the most. This spell is really vital, and needs to be used in a quick fluid motion.

[_Enio_]

this is an exploit that only a very experienced player can get advantage of... you want to start casting when you are not meeting the criteria of FACING THE ENEMY and its only a couple of hundreds milliseconds.

this kind of things genereta unballance between people with LOW PING and HIGH PING. Stuff that we also want to fix.

Maybe i explained bad. I want to start the cast the moment i stop moving. I cannot turn with mouse AND klick a spell the same time forcing me to release arrow keys to spells on bar very to the right.

Before i could log the spell in while moving, then time the start of cast with stopping&turning without releasing my keys.

[chilko]

Maybe i explained bad. I want to start the cast the moment i stop moving. I cannot turn with mouse AND klick a spell the same time forcing me to release arrow keys to spells on bar very to the right.

Before i could log the spell in while moving, then time the start of cast with stopping&turning without releasing my keys.

I understood... it's a hardcore exploit. If you add that kind of functionality to the fact that you are the fastest class and have different ways to disengage battle and take it again when you feel comfortable it makes for a great balance issue

[Znurre]

I understood... it's a hardcore exploit. If you add that kind of functionality to the fact that you are the fastest class and have different ways to disengage battle and take it again when you feel comfortable it makes for a great balance issueBut is this not wanted?
To me, this was one thing that I always liked with Regnum: experienced players always had an advantage because they knew how to "tame" the system.

Unexperienced barbarians always rush in with South Cross as their first attack trying to cause as much initial damage as possible, where more experienced barbs would probably fire off a normal hit first and then cast a South Cross, because that would increase their overall DPS.

It was these differences that made fighting in Regnum fun - where you felt you could win over and opponent because you had more knowledge and was more skilled than your opponent.
Not only because your setup was superior to his, that you were lucky or had better gear.

Movement, timing, knowing when and how to use skills, piggybacking, there are so many dynamic elements in the Regnum fighting system that makes it the awesome game it is.

[chilko]

But is this not wanted?
It was these differences that made fighting in Regnum fun - where you felt you could win over and opponent because you had more knowledge and was more skilled than your opponent.
Not only because your setup was superior to his, that you were lucky or had better gear.

Movement, timing, knowing when and how to use skills, piggybacking, there are so many dynamic elements in the Regnum fighting system that makes it the awesome game it is.

We Tried to explain this in our previous "vision" posts:

This system is even more twitchy as you need to decide when and how to move. Experienced players will still take advantage of this and we are not changing what powers of ranged class do.
The idea is that Warriors need to be much more easy to play.

Please try to follow me on this metaphor with other games:
Regnum was starting to look like Quake, where if you are not an experienced twitchy player with a great computer playing with 100 ms of ping you had no chance (specially if you where a melee class). We want to make it more like CounterStrike where teamplay (and some balance decisions) makes it more reasonable for a new or casual user. A skilled CounterStrike player can still dominate but its more fun for everyone.

[Shotya]

How about a few simple commands to help in battle situations.

For instance how about a /face that will instantly turn you to face a target??
How about /stick so we can travel in a pack in RvR without lossing the team?

Any chance we could get these?
It would help on the run so it would be possible to get a ambush off as soon as you stop IE: /face.

Hows about it NGD???

[_Enio_]

I understood... it's a hardcore exploit. If you add that kind of functionality to the fact that you are the fastest class and have different ways to disengage battle and take it again when you feel comfortable it makes for a great balance issue

Well i actually see that more of a fix for issues to hit a spell button without releasing keys completely. I can do the same with spells on key 1-4 without precast, but for others where i maybe even have to change quickbar it slows you down and feels uncomfortable. I agree that can be overcome with completely free key-bindings with key-combinations (all spells easy to reach). But atm thats the only fix for klicking a spell you want to cast quick after turn. Its not a hardcore exploit, you gain nothing unintended by design oO

[Comp]

We had a quick fort fight on Amun to see how this is affecting conjurers and I can tell you that support conjurers are going to have one hell of a time dealing with this in forts.

Additionally, during the entire fort fight (was a few minutes) the only thing that did real damage to me was the guards. Other players jumped out but did nothing because I moved out of range.

This dynamic will have a big impact on how fort fights are fought. Virtually everone will have to stand still during the fight or you won't hit your target. The dynics of a fort fight are fast moving and very fast paced.

Perhaps if your going to have a global cool down then remove all cast times for spells.

[Mellion]

We Tried to explain this in our previous "vision" posts:

This system is even more twitchy as you need to decide when and how to move. Experienced players will still take advantage of this and we are not changing what powers of ranged class do.
The idea is that Warriors need to be much more easy to play.

Please try to follow me on this metaphor with other games:
Regnum was starting to look like Quake, where if you are not an experienced twitchy player with a great computer playing with 100 ms of ping you had no chance (specially if you where a melee class). We want to make it more like CounterStrike where teamplay (and some balance decisions) makes it more reasonable for a new or casual user. A skilled CounterStrike player can still dominate but its more fun for everyone.

I think I have one of the slowest computer off all experienced RO players. And I can underline all what Enio and Znurre are describing is what RO made superior in game play and it is possible on a very slow computer too.

If you want to be like static WoW. Please make it so. But you lose all of us.

The whole update is a big no go, like those two tries with the slow backwards movement.

Why should we all suffer from a general design flaw?

[Dannboy]

Regnum was starting to look like Quake, where if you are not an experienced twitchy player with a great computer playing with 100 ms of ping you had no chance (specially if you where a melee class). We want to make it more like CounterStrike where teamplay (and some balance decisions) makes it more reasonable for a new or casual user. A skilled CounterStrike player can still dominate but its more fun for everyone.

But with the current balance its like playing CS vs a Aimbot =P
But I see youre point, and I like it

[-Edge-]

Ok, now warriors are rough to play again.

The being able to cast and move at the same time is gone, it was there this morning and it was amazing.

Also there is a lack of normal hit animations, and it seems if you are casting something (example 3 second area) you will also hit an attack while you are casting too.

The biggest problem with the new change to stopping spells while moving is that you are literally stalled, and when you are done casting the spell you need to run or autorun again. It does not continue autorun like it used to.

Basically anything that isn't instant is hard to use. My suggestion, change some key spells to instant, or add moving while casting for all classes.

[Mellion]

Please, fix

- not facing.
- out of range.
- and every other single positional problem.

- give barbs and knights a bit back, what you have taken.


and

- forget about that what is on amun!!

[-Edge-]

I understood... it's a hardcore exploit. If you add that kind of functionality to the fact that you are the fastest class and have different ways to disengage battle and take it again when you feel comfortable it makes for a great balance issue
Uh... wow, so this is going to make a lot more work for everyone. I can start to lose weight off playing this game then, are you planning to release that on the market as a weight loss program?

Sorry chilko, but you are creating too much work, the previous system wasn't even as automated as you think it was. I see no reason to add click for everything especially now that movement has been freelanced by strafing. Even the tiniest movement will cancel my casting time?

There is a problem, because in the same time it takes for me to cast something, someone can run behind me and render it useless. If I turn around and cast it again, the same will happen. In a couple fights today I was spending at least 10 seconds trying to hit casting time spells. This is very annoying for arc areas especially.

Also, if you are seriously going to leave support spells in their current state, please, at least have the decency to make them have more effect. Because right now a conjurer can spend about 5 seconds to stop, cast, and run again, just for a simple heal.

[chilko]

Please, fix

- not facing.
- out of range.
- and every other single positional problem.

- give barbs and knights a bit back, what you have taken.


and

- forget about that what is on amun!!

I have an idea... why don't we just make all spells with instant casting and you can attack while moving with every class?
that would be so much more fun for everyone right?

[chassor]

I have an idea... why don't we just make all spells with instant casting and you can attack while moving with every class?
that would be so much more fun for everyone right?

DO IT ! please , just not that new system

[Dannboy]

I have an idea... why don't we just make all spells with instant casting and you can attack while moving with every class?
that would be so much more fun for everyone right?

Hm, I guess I should start lvling that Lock then.

[Mellion]

I have an idea... why don't we just make all spells with instant casting and you can attack while moving with every class?
that would be so much more fun for everyone right?

yes!

Taken Casting/Attacking away from moving is hell! (Or keep at least what it is now.)

Why do you make yourself so much work with this "update" nobody asked you for?

RO has an unique combat system and THIS is it what makes it superior to those million dollar games.

I could have played Wow for free on several accounts but I stopped playing it after 1-2 days. Because combat sucks there. And you want it to be exactly that way.

Look at your logs how much time I spend with this account ingame. I don't regret a single minute. I wouldnt write here if i am not up to spend the same time again.

[Klutu]

Yes what edge said about the Casting while moving. that was Amazing being able cast your buffs and even my areas while moving. it made barb Very Dynamic and Fun.
Attacking for Warriors Seem to be very Slow and sluggish having to stop and buff really drags the Game down and it seems in war having to stop my character from moving so i can cast a Instant Spell Seems Very Wrong.

for Barb spells now most should become instant. Ripost/Whirlwind ect or when casting these spells the character should auto stop like it use to.

for mages/archers.

Casting time should be Removed for most spells except areas and some minor Buffs. the global Cooldown + Casting time makes the game feel very slow for Range Classes.

You have a good Concept of the Update you just need to cut out some Areas of it. i hope you keep on testing and use the feedback we give you to better this game.

cheers

[dani-o]

its not for casting, but for normal attacks

i think is not working at all...

first pic on RA second pic on AMUN

the only thing i see is 10% DMG reduction, in both cases i have selected the lion out of range, and waited until the lion came near me.

[Inkster]

I have an idea... why don't we just make all spells with instant casting and you can attack while moving with every class?
that would be so much more fun for everyone right?


About as much fun as standing still in a group or solo opposite an opponent/s throwing spells or shooting arrows at each other. Oh wait.....

[-Edge-]

About as much fun as standing still in a group or solo opposite an opponent/s throwing spells or shooting arrows at each other. Oh wait.....
Ranged classes have become standing monuments. Only the warriors will do serious running now. Everyone is going to just stand, because as a ranged class if you move a bit, you interrupt your precious time for another hit.

It feels basically like being locked in a cage, you can't move, and are forced to click a lot, but with little effect.

[chilko]

Ranged classes have become standing monuments. Only the warriors will do serious running now. Everyone is going to just stand, because as a ranged class if you move a bit, you interrupt your precious time for another hit.

It feels basically like being locked in a cage, you can't move, and are forced to click a lot, but with little effect.

if you can shot and move from a 40mts range... and actually move faster than a class that can only attack you from 1.5 mts...

how in the world are those guys going to be able even reach you?
we tried to lower the backpedaling speed and you didn't even agree to that.

Maybe our next game will be ranged only :) as it seems that we have a lot of experience doing that kind of gameplay. But, we need to make this work. We can't have 1/3rd of the game just broken.

[Pnarpa]

Just tested it... This game has lost its dynamics and now feels like any other mmorpg.

[VandaMan]

Maybe our next game will be ranged only :) as it seems that we have a lot of experience doing that kind of gameplay.

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=48603

:superpusso:

[Southern_Filly]

Hello,

We have uploaded some fixes to Amun to continue testing the combat system




Trying:

* Retaliation and Low profile have been changed to casting time 0. Please remember that the casting times of many spells may need to be revised and nothing is definitive.

Please,

Continue reporting bugs and suggestions in this thread


Thank you for giving this a try, really like it! Now can we try to make ambush the range of the bow?
just tried again and there are a few bugs (that i wouldnt mind keeping.. but.....)
1. the range is off, i can hit with my 20m bow from 25-30m away and the sam with my 25 and 30... from 5-10 m away.
2. i can attack back to back the person behind me.. like this but guess is the right thing to report. Sorry if someone already reported in this thread, i have not read them all.

[Shotya]

if you can shot and move from a 40mts range... and actually move faster than a class that can only attack you from 1.5 mts...

how in the world are those guys going to be able even reach you?
we tried to lower the backpedaling speed and you didn't even agree to that.
we can't have 1/3rd of the game just broken.



I agree things needed to be fixed. I agree the starfe shooting and back peddling needed to be fixed. However making it so we as archers cant turn or move at all to defend ourselves in a 1vs1 is crazy.
It will either be everyone drops there hunters or they roll 20 deep then realm numbers will come into play.
Reduce the marksmans range make them more like hunters with just additional damage. Maybe give them camo to and seriously reduce damage.
I really don't know how to tell you to fix your game all I know is I have leveled a character and spent time on quests and gathering equipment and now I don't even want to play it.

[Comp]

Guys - lets avoid flaming and try to be supportive and helpful.

Warrior Problem:
I've done several duels (PVPs) today with knights and barbs since this update was "supposed" to be a benefit to them - and lets just say it wasn't pretty for them and it was too easy to blow their casts by just moving away. So truly I don't see where this new combat system helps the warrior.

Mages:
Not sure about warlocks (I don't have one) but for conjurers this is a hard update due to cast times. I posted earlier where we had a fort war and the support conjurer (very experienced I might add) had EXTREME diffulties and only got off a heal or two.

Archers:
Petless hunter configurations are really screwed because of this. The'll be useful in fort wars but about it...and only then to deliver a camo'd rep shot after a terror. The least affected by this update seems to be hunters with pets. Sure the stop to hit is different but pet play is still the same. Marksmen I'm sure will have a very hard time and will be forced to play artillery from the back lines with uber range using hawks gaze.

All in all the update seems quite static and not very dynamic. The addition of strafing added some new dynamics but pausing before hitting or casting takes that dynamic away.

I'll keep playing and tell of anything else.

[-Edge-]

if you can shot and move from a 40mts range... and actually move faster than a class that can only attack you from 1.5 mts...

how in the world are those guys going to be able even reach you?
we tried to lower the backpedaling speed and you didn't even agree to that.

Maybe our next game will be ranged only :) as it seems that we have a lot of experience doing that kind of gameplay. But, we need to make this work. We can't have 1/3rd of the game just broken.
I'm talking from the warrior point of view, I play a warrior the most, and I know what I talk about when I think of all classes, not only my warrior petty as it may be. You didn't need to make the characters completely null. If you are going to add drastic changes like these and past ones, you need to seriously improvise, and not just make it leaning so much on one side. Please try to be reasonable and make compensations.

If you wanted to address the problem of warriors not being able to reach their targets, you could have given them speed boost, or nerfed the insane archer speed boost. You've done neither.

You've increased warrior range to something close to 6, so I don't know where you are getting 1.5 from. Simple changes would have been more then enough to keep both sides happy.

In the morning where Amun had casting while moving, the system was great. I really enjoyed that, now I can't really see any light from these changes, on any class. A new movement system was something you could get used to, but this is just adapt or die without choice.

[Mellion]

if you can shot and move from a 40mts range... and actually move faster than a class that can only attack you from 1.5 mts...

how in the world are those guys going to be able even reach you?
we tried to lower the backpedaling speed and you didn't even agree to that.

Maybe our next game will be ranged only :) as it seems that we have a lot of experience doing that kind of gameplay. But, we need to make this work. We can't have 1/3rd of the game just broken.

Warriors aren't that broken. I tried it both with barb and knight.

Don't you see the big picture? You nerfed Conjus to a degree that they are unplayable. But without conjus Warrior sucks facing ranged classes 3:1. On the opposite warriors are really good to play with a "Support" Conju in the background.

You have taken away mixed group play with Invasion and putting high level mobs into inner realm, loss of acceptable GRP and good mob respawn from the WZ. But players want to stay with that part of RO which is the best: Moving in the open field killing other players without lag.

So the changed to that classes which suits best.

On the other hand you cut areas, blocking, auras, speed, not 100% dmg+cc for lot of attacks (balestra, spiritual blow) from warriors. If you don't know those changes, read your own changelogs.

Don't punish us for your old and odd ideas.

[czesiek]

I really don't know how to tell you to fix your game all I know is I have leveled a character and spent time on quests and gathering equipment and now I don't even want to play it.

In the past NGD did things like this many time, showing us how they care about players time or about RL cash.
They took cash from ppl who bought premium in past, now they changed game in to something different. Would those players gave their cash on this version of game? Who knows.
They bet on new players who will buy new premium items. New players have no idea about how this game was working so they will not complain on current state, till NGD will change all things again cause they "work not as expected" and with "major game design flaws". And then new players will come ^^
Adapt and deal with frustration or take chilko advice about other games.

[ZericOfGa]

My thoughts so far:

Knight:

Changes seem ok. Only thing is I cant stand the animation of hitting when i dont hit. This forces me to read the log to see if i actually hit the person I thought I did...I understand the theory behind it, but it will make gamplay much more complicated since right now I know if i did a normal hit if, and only if, my axe actually swung. In the short battle we had with Alsius my axe swung 5 times and hit once. My personal vote would be to get rid of the extra animation, but i could get used to it.

Warlock:

The casting animation has me laughing...:superpusso: It looks like I : kiss my staff, pray a little prayer it will work, and then i kiss the sky at the end of the cast.

When the attack goes off my char is looking at the ground again, or the sky depending on the cast, instead of the target. Casting Crystal Blast looks hilarious cause it goes off and im staring at the stars. I think a little more direction would be helpful. I think it might be a better, more understanding animation if it looked more like this:

While waiting for casting time, keep the same animation of "concentrating on the stave". When the spell is about to cast, the mage stands fully upright and plants the staff in the ground. with the top of it pointing outward towards the enemy. This give more feel of direction imo. Right now I am confused as to what my char is doing.

Also: I have not yet fully seen the meteor animation.

Marksman:

I'm not really a fulltime archer, I have played a lvl 50 marks and hunter as well, but, on my own character, this is my view:

The new animations are doable, but, it is really hard to tell *when* you will shoot as the animation of pulling back the arrow is so short. Also, when I stop backpedaling to "shoot" there is still a lag before I can shoot. This isn't as bad for a marks given they hit higher, but for hunters grinding will almost be impossible it seems. Also, I think the 1s cast on a lot of things should be removed. Archers already have to stop to shoot, that enough is good enough chance for warriors. I personally think that should be the only change for that. Having archers stop AND adding cast speed to the most basic skills will make 70% of archers level 30 and higher quit.

Thats just my view. Extra comment: very, very good work on the new graphics and the Syrits init zone. It looks AWESOME!

Zeric

[dani-o]

if you can shot and move from a 40mts range... and actually move faster than a class that can only attack you from 1.5 mts...

how in the world are those guys going to be able even reach you?
we tried to lower the backpedaling speed and you didn't even agree to that.

Maybe our next game will be ranged only :) as it seems that we have a lot of experience doing that kind of gameplay. But, we need to make this work. We can't have 1/3rd of the game just broken.

so you have screwed the warriors balance reducing their speed boosts and taking the 100% WPN DMG from their CC skills, and giving the archers the possibility of run away full speed with strafe, and your "fix" to this, is making archers and mages fight without moving?? in the last update you have destroyed range vs melee pvp and in order to fix that in this one you destroy ranged vs ranged pvp?? are you crazy??

the gameplay of regnum is (was) awesome, it didnt need to be changed, we dont need strafe and mouse look, we dont need auto-canceling on our skills, we dont need archers and mages fighting standing still just pressing buttons.

i cant believe that you are telling us that you are going to fix an skill unbalance, by destroying the thing that made regnum what it is, THE GAMEPLAY.

[Zas_]

I tried, only with one character since i'm playing only one, a petless hunter.

Good:
- new textures (few are too bright imho, on some trees)
- colors for names (great)

Bad:
- animations, especially new one for archer, from back (std view) it is awful.
- new combat system, it killed dynamic, my hunter is somehow useless now, even grinding an easy mob is a pain.
- old bugs are still there, still no way to fully configure controls, no double spell bar, etc...

I was dubitative about strafing, but it increased dynamic and fun finally, but now you kill all that.


To improve warriors, give them more speed, and allow them to cast powers while moving with no or very short casting time, restore Onslaught, and add/improve speed boost powers for knights.
Reduce pets damage, shorten low profile duration, nerf SOTW, don't change other classes.

I will continue to test future changes, but frankly you break more than you fix with those changes.

[backe]

100% truth.

+1,000,000,000,000

[ZericOfGa]

I tried, only with one character since i'm playing only one, a petless hunter.

Good:
- new textures (few are too bright imho, on some trees)
- colors for names (great)

Bad:
- animations, especially new one for archer, from back (std view) it is awful.
- new combat system, it killed dynamic, my hunter is somehow useless now, even grinding an easy mob is a pain.
- old bugs are still there, still no way to fully configure controls, no double spell bar, etc...

I was dubitative about strafing, but it increased dynamic and fun finally, but now you kill all that.


To improve warriors, give them more speed, and allow them to cast powers while moving with no or very short casting time, restore Onslaught, and add/improve speed boost powers for knights.
Reduce pets damage, shorten low profile duration, nerf SOTW, don't change other classes.

I will continue to test future changes, but frankly you break more than you fix with those changes.

No. Nerfs arent the answer anymore. To fix knights there is only one thing that needs to be fixed: the blocking tree. Or, I did offer an alternative:

http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48061

Zeric

[ArchmagusArcana]

My thoughts, after testing again for about an hour.

Warlock: For me, the GCD needs to be about on par with a fast staff, i couldnt use medium as the GCD then was too long, and right now it seems like its inbetween fast and medium staff. PvP with warrior, is awful, i have to now guess when my spell is done. Spell bar is not the same as the animation and is also unreliable. I cannot stress how much i hate movement (even turning canceling my spells). It makes gameplay so boring for me and it removes all dynamic of close range pvp. Now the only chance i have is to keep them away, which for barbs under um, is impossible.

Warrior (knight and barb): I dont like the attack animations going through when the attack doesnt, its confusing. Shield bash is a bit buggy it seems to me.....took me 3 trys to get it to go off.


Still testing.........

[Warthog]

Thinking on this all and testing some more just makes me not like this more. I don't want to play a static game where you need to stand still to do anything. Yes, warriors need help the way it is now, but changing the dynamics of the whole game to make it where you pretty much all have to be standing still to do things or running for your life does not seem fun. 3 ideas for quick easy, perhaps bad, but at least it could be tried solution to the way things are now.

1. Remove piggybacking attack + spell for archers.

2. Give warriors strategic position, perhaps with slightly less duration and longer cooldown then marksmen have.

3. Reduce the percentage of cast speed you get from Arcane devotion so a warlock with that and acceleration can not cast 3-5 spells before warriors can get near.

I know, it prolly won't happen since you put I would guess a good amount of time with this new combat system.....but I would much rather see you try these kinda small changes first before completely redoing combat system to where it forces static fights instead of dynamic and fast paced fights.



Edit: I thought of 1 more thing.

4. Restore onslaught to what it used to be but have it's affects only effect warriors.

[_Enio_]

From testing my marks for a bit today:

Nice
Got to say, with the changed faster 1st attack to balance the delay you get on start of attacks is really good. With fast bows its on a reasonable speed even allowing a quick shot between moving - still its hard enough to not makin it an easy strafekite. It feels more dynamic :thumb_up:

minor issue
Missing feedback for Normal attack success (some castbar that shows the current state of the normal-hit-cast would help much)

suggestion
Add a castbar for normal hits. the bar should be empty when nothing is cast and fill up from 0% to 100% when you cast or do a normal hit. With current castbar you dont know where exactly is the "end"of the castbar.


problem with auto-stop on cast:
Currently we stop when we try to cast, no matter if the requirements for a successful cast are met (eg. out of range/target not facing/taget immune to spell etc). I recommend to change it so you auto-stop only when the cast really starts.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I don't have to stop but I think that cancelling a spell or normal attack should be done in another way than moving, people still want to kite

[chilko]

people still want to kite

please guys, read what you are asking for: kiting is an exploit... Only ranged classes can kite... thats a big balance problem (for pvp AND grinding)

[Inkster]

please guys, read what you are asking for: kiting is an exploit... Only ranged classes can kite... thats a big balance problem (for pvp AND grinding)

we had this conversation before when the backwards walking was changed
for the worse (which was promptly changed back)

Also warriors can kite using spears so no one loses out on that point

Please listen to the majority of players and dont make so drastic changes

-Regards

[_Enio_]

I don't have to stop but I think that cancelling a spell or normal attack should be done in another way than moving, people still want to kite
I actually really like the feature to be able to stop a cast/attack. It allows to react on things around you better. (eg. You see a barb on fullspeed run on you - you can cancel you attack and react instead of waiting out the cast/attack duration (+ followup gcd in case of a spell)

I just miss proper feedback. [A fixed size castbar for normals and spells could even allow to take into account your ping (you can test when your spell shoots out without being cancelled and eg. Find out by trying that your cast goes out at 95% of the bar. That would even balance ping differences.]

[chilko]

Please listen to the majority of players and dont make so drastic changes


The vocal part of the community which is taking part of this tests and posting their feedback (to whom we are LISTENING) does not represent the majority of the player base.

the great majority that we also try to take into consideration is the 80% of users that register every day into the game and never return.

Additions such as strafing that you guys considered so negative when we implemented it, had a lot to do with us thinking in those users too.
Actually the real majority of the player base like strafing now... even according to polls in this very same forum.

[Inkster]

Actually strafing i don't like but im not forced to use it, also i see hardly anyone using that feature in game at all

As for the amount of registered users to people who actually play, a fair amount of people who no longer play were unhappy with some changes made to the game

(i have been told this by a LOT of people who no longer play)

Anyways im sure you have our best interests at heart

[_Enio_]

please guys, read what you are asking for: kiting is an exploit... Only ranged classes can kite... thats a big balance problem (for pvp AND grinding)

Well "kiting" is not an exploit, its a tactic. If you shoot a warrior untill hes near, then ambush him, run away and turn and go on shooting till he is near again it is kiting too. But what are ranged supposed to do vs a melee besides tactics like this? Outdmg him on melee fight? Its not an exploit, its a tactic to play. The warrior on his side tries to prevent this by knocking you down, slowing you down and getting you dizzy not allow me getting away to again shoot him from range.

Before we had a problem with kiting on almost full speed. Yesterday it was like when you shot you already had the warrior ON you dancing around you without a way to shoot him. today its a nice balance imo. It slows you pretty much down when you turn and shoot, still it feels much better then yesterday.


Edit:
If you "ban" all possibilities to kite AND makin ranged classes having malus on close combat - you can bury the class. Its the core of ranged classes - doing dmg without getting dmg -> Its core of ranged class to not let the melee class get near you in range vs melee.

You just got to balance the chances. Kiting was too easy - range was too fast while shooting back. Speeding up warriors wouldve been one idea but - you wanted range to be faster when fleeing. Slowing down the kiting process is the way to go and you successfully did it imho.

Offtopic: I always loved strafing :)

[chilko]

From testing my marks for a bit today:

[B]problem with auto-stop on cast:
Currently we stop when we try to cast, no matter if the requirements for a successful cast are met (eg. out of range/target not facing/taget immune to spell etc). I recommend to change it so you auto-stop only when the cast really starts.

this was an oversight, it is now implemented in Amun.

[chilko]

Well "kiting" is not an exploit, its a tactic.

Kiting may be a tactic if it involves crowd control powers or an environmental strategy but being able to kite just by running backwards and shooting normals is an exploit.

[_Enio_]

this was an oversight, it is now implemented in Amun.

I just relogged to make sure i get all updates.

I still stop when i hit a spell (even when no target selected).

[chilko]

I just relogged to make sure i get all updates.

I still stop when i hit a spell (even when no target selected).

hehe it was a bug... its 8:20 pm you know? :)
Surak says it should be fixed now...

[Warthog]

Ok so I logged in my conjurer on Amun. Please tell me this is not how casting is supposed to work. I cast greater healing with 180 second cooldown. Problem comes afterwards, each time I cast a new spell, say I did 25 seconds after I cast greater healing I cast heal ally, the cooldown for greater healing is resetting back to 180 seconds. Same goes for any and all spells I tried. One new cast of anything else would reset all the cooldowns of anything I had cast recently to ther e full amount to start over. And it is not just a visual bug, I had greater healing on cooldown for well over 8 mins just now. It also is not just a relog thing, as I logged out an then back in, same issue. Please please tell me it is not supposed to be like this. Cause if it is, the fact that having 1 sec cast times will mean nothing cause after about 3 mins of fight all my spells will be in perma cooldown state unless I run and hide somewhere and wait 180 seconds.

[_Enio_]

Kiting may be a tactic if it involves crowd control powers or an environmental strategy but being able to kite just by running backwards and shooting normals is an exploit.

Its a design flaw when that tactics doesnt slow you enough down for the melee to get close. The tactic itself is legal and common in any game.

It almost sounds like we are bad because we "exploit" something. Please reconsider calling it exploit. It is normal gameplay not a crime.

Its technically no difference if i use a speedup spell to gain distance -> turn&shoot or if i use a CC spell to slow the target down and run away when he gets close to me. The problem is how to balance this. You cannot remove "using range&movement to your advantage" as its tied to such games. You can only balance it (eg. with a movement penalty on shoots like you did now.)

[Klutu]

From Morning Today to well 7:30 in the evening i have noticed alost of Work done since then Very Nice!

this mornings "bug" for casting while moving with the warriors to me was one of the Greatest things ive seen on the game if there was a way to actually implement it that be awesome.

i loved that i could cast a area "thunder strike" and have it casting while i angled it into a perfect position. ( this would make warriors lead rushes again )

i liked that with ripost as long as i stayed in position & range of the Target i was able to cast it while moving around my target. made the game so awesome.

There was much more ^^



Cheers

[_Enio_]

hehe it was a bug... its 8:20 pm you know? :)
Surak says it should be fixed now...

Confirming it works nicely, and it again improves general gameplay feeling.:thumb:

[ArchmagusArcana]

I have noticed that i get some strange running bug where i either slowdown, almost as though i stop quickly and start again, and other times where i 'stutter'. Sort of like it was before, only using mouse run does not do the trick this time. It seems to happen more in pvp, or when i am trying to cast (notice it much more as a warrior).

Edit: I have also noticed that i can cast instant speed buffs WHILE ATTACKING. In the middle of a swing, i cast caution, tried it several times, as well as Brutal Impacts. Im not sure if this is intended or not, but there it is. Just make Arc Dev and Energy Barrier instants and we are gold :D

Edit2: Thanks for staying late and taking the time to converse with us for this update. I for one really really appreciate that you are doing the update this way, fixing things that are broken right away and not letting them pile up to cause issues down the road. Lets keep at this and make this a kick ass update.

[_Enio_]

Actually i think letting Melee cast spells on the move makes their class gameplay feeling much better (as far as i understood). Maybe you can fiund a way to reimplement it for some spells (eg all those which dont need a target).

The faast paced gameplay is what makes the game so fun. If you try to optimize for both, balance and dynamic even more - it would help the overall fun ingame.

[eg.
- if areas on the run are too strong, make the barb slow down while the cast or tune the area effect - keep the dynamic as long as it isnt totally over the top.
- Remove the slowdown melee gets when doing a Normal hits
- Make all buffs being cast on the run (at least for melee)
- Tune cooldown on spring a bit. Problem for melee is, the first contact with the ranged class can be outplayd by rangeds spells, to get close a 2nd time is really hard as eg UM is gone and speedup has long CD.]

Changes like that could change balance in favour of the melee and gives dynamic fighting experience.

[Warthog]

I am also having a issue with Mindpush that it seems others are not. I can not cast unless I have a target selected and even with target selected I have to actually be with melee range of target before it will cast.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I actually really like the feature to be able to stop a cast/attack. It allows to react on things around you better. (eg. You see a barb on fullspeed run on you - you can cancel you attack and react instead of waiting out the cast/attack duration (+ followup gcd in case of a spell)

I just miss proper feedback. [A fixed size castbar for normals and spells could even allow to take into account your ping (you can test when your spell shoots out without being cancelled and eg. Find out by trying that your cast goes out at 95% of the bar. That would even balance ping differences.]

yes it's a good thing but it shouldn't be done by moving, you still want to move back after you've done a spell, if you make a mistake you'll cancel something you dont' want to cancel which is where I'm going

Kiting may be a tactic if it involves crowd control powers or an environmental strategy but being able to kite just by running backwards and shooting normals is an exploit.
It depends on how you see it, it was never listed anywhere as a bug
making marks life harder is ok, but making it so that they'll have to stand still to prevent cancelling their attacks isn't such a good idea imo, there should be a "cancel spell" button instead

[chilko]

Ok so I logged in my conjurer on Amun. Please tell me this is not how casting is supposed to work. I cast greater healing with 180 second cooldown. Problem comes afterwards, each time I cast a new spell, say I did 25 seconds after I cast greater healing I cast heal ally, the cooldown for greater healing is resetting back to 180 seconds. Same goes for any and all spells I tried. One new cast of anything else would reset all the cooldowns of anything I had cast recently to ther e full amount to start over. And it is not just a visual bug, I had greater healing on cooldown for well over 8 mins just now. It also is not just a relog thing, as I logged out an then back in, same issue. Please please tell me it is not supposed to be like this. Cause if it is, the fact that having 1 sec cast times will mean nothing cause after about 3 mins of fight all my spells will be in perma cooldown state unless I run and hide somewhere and wait 180 seconds.

this must be a bug, can you guys please confirm that this happens and if you can reporduce it?

[_Enio_]

yes it's a good thing but it shouldn't be done by moving, you still want to move back after you've done a spell, if you make a mistake you'll cancel something you dont' want to cancel which is where I'm going


It depends on how you see it, it was never listed anywhere as a bug
making marks life harder is ok, but making it so that they'll have to stand still to prevent cancelling their attacks isn't such a good idea imo, there should be a "cancel spell" button instead

Make it deactivatable in options maybe. I would like the current system BUT a proper feedback (eg improved castbar for normals&spells). Still i understand others might feel more comfortable with awds idea.

[chilko]

Its a design flaw when that tactics doesnt slow you enough down for the melee to get close. The tactic itself is legal and common in any game.

It almost sounds like we are bad because we "exploit" something. Please reconsider calling it exploit. It is normal gameplay not a crime.

Its technically no difference if i use a speedup spell to gain distance -> turn&shoot or if i use a CC spell to slow the target down and run away when he gets close to me. The problem is how to balance this. You cannot remove "using range&movement to your advantage" as its tied to such games. You can only balance it (eg. with a movement penalty on shoots like you did now.)

ok, ok, i didn't want to call anyone a cheater... i just wanted to put emphasis on the fact that it's a great balance problem, specially when other classes are not able to use the same tactic.

please look at this video: does anyone of you consider this fair & challenging gameplay? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vllA9uZ7I
(let alone how ugly it looks to be able to shoot in any direction just because you can move during the attack)

[ArchmagusArcana]

this must be a bug, can you guys please confirm that this happens and if you can reporduce it?

I do not get this bug. Tested on knight with AoO, and thunderstrike.

I do however get a bug that i cannot cast areas or auras from the spellbook, only from the hotbar.

[_Enio_]

this must be a bug, can you guys please confirm that this happens and if you can reporduce it?

I get this bug too.

Tested with Ambush and ehtereal arrow.
No text or anything about it being on cooldown. just nothing happens. (ambush should defenitely been cooled down again since i casted the other spell right before it wouldve been cooled down. CD got reset and ambush wasnt castable at all.)

[_Enio_]

ok, ok, i didn't want to call anyone a cheater... i just wanted to put emphasis on the fact that it's a great balance problem, specially when other classes are not able to use the same tactic.

please look at this video: does anyone of you consider this fair & challenging gameplay? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vllA9uZ7I
(let alone how ugly it looks to be able to shoot in any direction just because you can move during the attack)

>.< at least use the vimeo link as i have put nice music in there.. http://www.vimeo.com/5833804

Edit: And no it was over the top, it needed a change, no question about that - it was too easy and not enough slowdown needed when you was trained at that. I actually like the change how it is today, slows you pretty much down but still allows some movement between actions...
Edit2: the smaller facing angle adds to it.

[Warthog]

this must be a bug, can you guys please confirm that this happens and if you can reporduce it?

well, I have logged in and out numerous times, I have no recording software so unless you can tell me how to make a video to show you, I have no way to prove it other then I know it happens to me on my conj after multiple logs out then log back in each time waith any spell from quickbar.

[ArchmagusArcana]

well, I have logged in and out numerous times, I have no recording software so unless you can tell me how to make a video to show you, I have no way to prove it other then I know it happens to me on my conj after multiple logs out then log back in each time waith any spell from quickbar.

No, i get the bug now. I get it with mind squish, disabling, but not AoO. When i checked before i saw it only in spellbook as i was playing in window mode. I will do more testing to see if it is related to just pvp, or to grind as well. When i looked before, spellbook said it was ok. I am going to test this again. Its not so much that the CD gets reset as it just kind of stops ticking. Maybe its not visually reset, and just wont start ticking till it gets to the point that it is visually.....


Also, i can now not cast Auras or Areas, either from the book, or from hotbar.



Edit: Auras seem to work again, but im not sure why they would not in the first place....there was no one even near me for at least 5 minutes before i tried it. And yes, i can for sure confirm that sometimes casting spells in succession will in fact reset the CD for the others. This is new to me and only tested with a knight. I did not have this problem last night (warlock knight or barb), and just now noticed it.

Edit2: Can also confirm this for a lock. If any spell is not done with CD, casting another spell will initiate the entire CD duration again.

Also, still no spell queuing...As in i cast Arcane Dev, hit hotkey for EB, and once Dev is done casting, nothing.....Except that the cast any is 'stuck' I still look like im playing with my staff. Also, no pre-casting. Though i thought i saw something that said it locked out at only 2 seconds. Its still better than nothing though.

[_Enio_]

Also, i can now not cast Auras or Areas, either from the book, or from hotbar.

Confirmed with Ignus scorch (offensive area, doesnt need a target selected to cast) - doesnt cast at all.

Lightning arrow does cast (needs a target)

[chilko]

>.< at least use the vimeo link as i have put nice music in there.. http://www.vimeo.com/5833804

Edit: And no it was over the top, it needed a change, no question about that - it was too easy and not enough slowdown needed when you was trained at that. I actually like the change how it is today, slows you pretty much down but still allows some movement between actions...
Edit2: the smaller facing angle adds to it.

hahaha I didn't know it was you!

Now you will need to tell everyone that this video was one of the detonators for this radical change in the combat system :)

[Warthog]

ok, so I've messed around some more, deleted quickbar and put back, still have problem there on quickbar. Casting from spellbook it does not reset the cooldown in the spellbook to full, but it will reset the icon on quicker to full timer. So in other words I can still play my conj sort of, will have to forgo quickbar completely and jump through spellbook to cast things.

This post is to my first problem, not the problem with mindpush not casting unless a target is selected and I am within mele range of the target for it to even cast.

The first problem was on quickbar, cast spell 1 with 60 second cooldown, cooldown starts and 10 seconds later cast spell two with 30 second cooldwon, cooldown on spell 1 returns to 60 seconds and cooldown on spell 2 is 30 seconds. I cast say spell 3, both spell 1 and spell 2 will reset to there top cooldowns (60 secs and 30 secs). And it is not just a visual bug, I have cast from spellbook, which cooldown actually works right, an kept casting other spells which were resetting the view of cooldown on quickbar. After cooldown reset to normal in spellbook I still could not cast the spell from quickbar, only from spellbook.

I hope this makes sense, I appologize if not.

[_Enio_]

hahaha I didn't know it was you!

Now you will need to tell everyone that this video was one of the detonators for this radical change in the combat system :)

Uhh

One more issue why you have to make archers still an enjoyable class after the chages, ill get raped badly if you dont xD

[ArchmagusArcana]

One thing i find that i really miss is visual feedback from spells (warlock). With a warrior, you know when you cast and you know when its done. Sure with lock you see the effect, but with a mage its a bit vague. Before, your staff comes down, and the spell is cast, now you only get the ani on the target. Im not sure if this is a bug, or something that is going to be addressed in NGD3D 2.0, or what, but to me its another degree of detachment from the 'reality' of the game.

[Kyrottimus]

Powers without casting get pre-casted for two seconds until being in range.
[/LIST]

The following post applies ontly to my barb (which Im testing):

At the time of my posting here and now, the above "change" is non-functional. I still have to repeatedly "mash" or "hammer" instant spells like south cross, charge, beast attack, feint, or kick as I get within range (and dance around a target to get it to trigger right).

Pre-casting, AKA spell-queuing for instant spells does not function and is confirmed with 2 other players I am currently testing with (one of other realm).


1.07, "pre-casting" or "spell-queuing" works fine, currently, for melee classes in this regard, being able to click a spell with an enemy targeted, albeit out of range, and then within a few seconds as you get within range, have it trigger.

On amun, currently, if you try to "pre-cast" or "spell-queue" and are out of range or not facing enemy, it seems like that instant spell gets automatically discarded from the queue. Where as these spells (and even .5 second ones like shield bash) hold queue at least for a few seconds until within range/facing in the current 1.07 version on the live servers.

Just an observation.


Another issue:

Also, warrior animations of "attacking" show up when in combat mode and "within range" but no damage or log entry are showing up (and mobs don't aggro so I assume there is no REAL attack but only the animation).


For the record, I am testing this on a very old computer but I can still play enough to test mechanics. I should have my good computer fixed in a couple of weeks (graphics card slot on mobo burned out and am awaiting RMA)


Just had another test with Gawyn: Was totally within range and facing him and was hammering South Cross DOZENS of times and it never triggered at all. I don't know if the global CD has changed how spells trigger but now they seem to trigger in a VERY inconsistent manner.

[Kyrottimus]

One more annoyance:

Casting buffs like Frenzy, Berserk or TFB while running or auto-running.

In 1.07, your character stops, buffs, and continues running.

Here, at the time of this posting on Amun, he either keeps running and doesn't buff (while holding forward running), or if he does buff while auto-running, he stops, buffs, but does not continue running when buff is done casting.

From what I hear it's the same way with hunters and track. It's more fluid to play and have these types of buffs-while-running (with built-in pauses) as-is in 1.07, than this stop, buff, start running again, oops I interrupted buff, better stop again, type of method.

[ArchmagusArcana]

It is the same for mages. Was hard enough to keep up with the pack as a mage, now having to keep my buffs up and stay close to my allies is going to be rougher.

This is a really good start though, i love the concepts, we just need to get them tweaked so that the gameplay is good for everyone.

[_Enio_]

Bug:

Casting a spell seems to count as aiming time for a normal hit
This leads to spells beeing immediately followed by a normal hit.
With my fast bow +12%speed i tried to go on moving when i saw the cast complete on castbar, it still shot a normal out.

While this is an unintended behaviour and might look like favouring the archer it is a huge drawback when you are trying to apply Distracting shot (stun) which gets automatically cancelled by the following normal hit. Generally annoying to not be able to control if you want to hit or not..

Confirmed with other spells with longer casttime.

[Comp]

After playing my archer/hunter I find that the gameplay is still enjoyable. It adds an interesting twise to it and strafing is STIILL a huge bonus to us. I'd expect that archers that will feel this the most will be those who enjoy petless and marksmen.

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

Bug:

Casting a spell seems to count as aiming time for a normal hit
This leads to spells beeing immediately followed by a normal hit.
With my fast bow +12%speed i tried to go on moving when i saw the cast complete on castbar, it still shot a normal out.

While this is an unintended behaviour and might look like favouring the archer it is a huge drawback when you are trying to apply Distracting shot (stun) which gets automatically cancelled by the following normal hit. Generally annoying to not be able to control if you want to hit or not..

Confirmed with other spells with longer casttime.

Further adding to this bug i have found that with a fast sword while waiting on typhoon to cast i attacked normally twice :/

EDIT: ok further looking into this bug there is one 'Ghost' attack which shows an animation but doesnt hit whilst casting typhoon and then an inevitable hit afterwards that cannot be stopped

here is the ghost swing aimed at arcan whilst casting typhoon and the typhoon right after it

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/Shaitan_118/screenshot2009-09-1803_17_07.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/Shaitan_118/screenshot2009-09-1803_17_09.jpg

[Comp]

Enhancement Request:

When you put a spell on the tool-bar can you remove the description pop-up that occurs when you mouse-over the spell? The pop-up gets in the way of the cast time bar.

Thx..

[_Enio_]

Bug:

Spell description on Bar is always lvl1, no matter what lvl you have the spell.

[ArchmagusArcana]

Bug:

Casting a spell seems to count as aiming time for a normal hit
This leads to spells beeing immediately followed by a normal hit.
With my fast bow +12%speed i tried to go on moving when i saw the cast complete on castbar, it still shot a normal out.

While this is an unintended behaviour and might look like favouring the archer it is a huge drawback when you are trying to apply Distracting shot (stun) which gets automatically cancelled by the following normal hit. Generally annoying to not be able to control if you want to hit or not..

Confirmed with other spells with longer casttime.

I cannot confirm this with terror, no arc dev, fast staff, and no free attacks. However, using strafe, i will always get a 'free' attack after casting any other spell.

Edit: I have to move VERY fast after the ani, almost the same instant that the spell is cast to avoid this extra attack. I notice that its a lot easy to avoid it with a slower weapon than a faster one.
I have only avoided the extra attack after a spell with a fast staff once or twice out of 30-40 test spells.

[_Enio_]

I cannot confirm this with terror, no arc dev, fast staff, and no free attacks. However, using strafe, i will always get a 'free' attack after casting any other spell.

Edit: I have to move VERY fast after the ani, almost the same instant that the spell is cast to avoid this extra attack. I notice that its a lot easy to avoid it with a slower weapon than a faster one.
I have only avoided the extra attack after a spell with a fast staff once or twice out of 30-40 test spells.

Might be connected to strafing/moving before, but gawynns bug with Typhoon and normal hits while the cast isnt connected to strafing.

[ArchmagusArcana]

Yes, if someone would be willing to let me test on them (preferably high level ignis/syrtis knight), we can do some more testing of this tomorrow when i get done with work (7-10pm GMT).

[_Enio_]

Yes, if someone would be willing to let me test on them (preferably high level ignis/syrtis knight), we can do some more testing of this tomorrow when i get done with work (7-10pm GMT).

Well maybe these hints are enough to find the bug(s). Nice finds all, was fun too.

Hopefully NGD fixes some things for warriors since there seem serious issues with fun in gameplay again (eg. no autohit).

[Klutu]

Well after more Testing simply Warriors Need.

Auto-Attack - Automatically attack when your selected target is in the proper range of your weapon your current method on Amun is very upsetting and it seems more like a nerf to the warriors then to help them.


Pre-Cast - Being Able to cast a spell that has a 0.5+ casting time and able to move at the same time to me would be a very big gain to warriors without being a Imbalance to other classes. since your looking to improve the game threw the eyes of RvR not PvP you could improve the Dynamic's area of Fort Wars and Open field Battles.


Global Cooldown

to me i find the Global Cooldown on my Quickbar can be confusing in the heat of a fight to properly remember which spells are cd and which are just under the GCD

my idea was making the GCD Red on the quickbar and having the spells that are actually Cooldown just remaining the original color.

[Henri_Freundlich]

Also, i can now not cast Auras or Areas, either from the book, or from hotbar.


Confirmed with Ignus scorch (offensive area, doesnt need a target selected to cast) - doesnt cast at all.

Some of the Mage/Lock spells are also broken... Blaze, Mind Push, Crystal blast.

------------------------------
- Ulrin, 50, Alsius::Horus

[e30G]

this kind of things generates unbalance between people with LOW PING and HIGH PING. Stuff that we also want to fix.

Then why destroy ranged instants? In my case for example my ping is generally in the high 300's on a good day and in the 500-600 on a normal day due to my location and service provider. The changes you made to my class' support spells will make it impossible for me to play effectively. Conjurers need to have fast support spells because we have to find who needs it, then select the person then cast. I don't want to sound arrogant but over 2 years of playing primarily this class tells me that 1 second can dictate whether or not someone survives or not in this game.

Another spell rendered useless with cast time is mind push. The faster movement speed + instant cast times of warriors will make mind push useless if it had a cast time. If your putting a cast time on mind push then increase it's range. It's far too short ranged for the 1 second cast.

[chilko]

Pre-Cast - Being Able to cast a spell that has a 0.5+ casting time and able to move at the same time to me would be a very big gain to warriors without being a Imbalance to other classes. since your looking to improve the game threw the eyes of RvR not PvP you could improve the Dynamic's area of Fort Wars and Open field Battles.

mmm... we might be facing a design flaw on the new pre-cast implementation but there is something else that i would like to ask you guys.

we need to have a "penalty" for launching certain important/powerful spells...
This is not only part of the balance but of the actual challenge involved in playing melee classes too...

if you can cast while moving there is no penalty at all... whats the difference between that and instant casting? that you have to click a certain ammount of time before???

maybe you want us to do this casting while moving and triple the mana consumption of those spells?

we just don't understand.

[chilko]

Then why destroy ranged instants? In my case for example my ping is generally in the high 300's on a good day and in the 500-600 on a normal day due to my location and service provider. The changes you made to my class' support spells will make it impossible for me to play effectively. Conjurers need to have fast support spells because we have to find who needs it, then select the person then cast. I don't want to sound arrogant but over 2 years of playing primarily this class tells me that 1 second can dictate whether or not someone survives or not in this game.

Another spell rendered useless with cast time is mind push. The faster movement speed + instant cast times of warriors will make mind push useless if it had a cast time. If your putting a cast time on mind push then increase it's range. It's far too short ranged for the 1 second cast.

guys we did say that there is nothing final right??? (stuff such as cast times GCD)? please let's talk about bigger issues.

[Radian]

Hmmm. Maybe change the "clock" cooldown animation so that 0 - 30 is casting, and 30, back to 0 is cooldown?

Make the "cast" half (0 - 30) of the clock a different color from the cooldown half.

Precasts would pause at the 30 mark until in range, then the spell would fire, and the cooldown would continue on.

If you want a penalty to go with that particular spell, have mana or HP tick off while the clock holds at 30.

LOL. Better yet. Have an bar like the O2 sensor. If someone holds a precast too long, it fires on themselves :tonguey:

[e30G]

mmm... we might be facing a design flaw on the new pre-cast implementation but there is something else that i would like to ask you guys.

we need to have a "penalty" for launching certain important/powerful spells...
This is not only part of the balance but of the actual challenge involved in playing melee classes too...

if you can cast while moving there is no penalty at all... whats the difference between that and instant casting? that you have to click a certain ammount of time before???

maybe you want us to do this casting while moving and triple the mana consumption of those spells?

we just don't understand.

Actually, I think casting while moving can be a good improvement in the game. For a few minutes in amun last night all classes can cast while moving. I realized that it could make an interesting RvR dynamic with armies charging in and flowing combat.

Here are my thoughts on possible implementation:

Melee
- Allow positive spells (self and ally buffs) to be casted while moving but witth a speed penalty.
- Require the character to stop to cast offensive spells with cast times.
- Allow the character to cast instant offensive spells while moving.
- Increase duration of Spring and Onslaught.

Ranged
- Allow positive powers (self and ally buffs) to be casted while moving but with a speed penalty during the cast time.
- Require the character to stop to cast negative powers (offensive spells/auras) for the duration of casting time (like the current)
- Require the character to stop 0.5 seconds to cast instant offensive spells (if any instants are left)
- Allow normal attacks while moving forward (to stop runners).
- Allow normals while turning in place (to prevent dancing around preventing attacks).
- Reduce strafing speed by 25% (to allow melee to attack properly)

[_Enio_]

Then why destroy ranged instants? In my case for example my ping is generally in the high 300's on a good day and in the 500-600 on a normal day due to my location and service provider. The changes you made to my class' support spells will make it impossible for me to play effectively. Conjurers need to have fast support spells because we have to find who needs it, then select the person then cast. I don't want to sound arrogant but over 2 years of playing primarily this class tells me that 1 second can dictate whether or not someone survives or not in this game.

Another spell rendered useless with cast time is mind push. The faster movement speed + instant cast times of warriors will make mind push useless if it had a cast time. If your putting a cast time on mind push then increase it's range. It's far too short ranged for the 1 second cast.

The 1 sec casttime = fix for piggyback. While that makes sense for marksmen&hunters which had a huge increase in burst dmg & general dps by using this with instants its making things bad for nonsm mages who need the quick effect of some spells (mindpush, heals, dispell).

Since the piggyback of those spells doesnt bring in any imbalances (like eg.huge dps increase) i vote for making them instant. The slower gcd compared to fast staff+attackspeed already is a drawback.

While on that i also suggest to make the gcd be affected by either the +castspeed or +attackspeed stat.For balancing you could add a minimum gcd and let the gap min to normal be scaling with eg. +castspeed. (eg. Gcd =1.2s min gcd= 0.5s | gcd with 64%cs = 1.2 - (0.7* 0.64) = 0.752s )

This would allow locks and conjs some less limited scaling with gear/different configs, the fixed gcd limits them pretty much.

Setting different values per classes for min gcd would allow balance too.

[_Enio_]

- Allow normal attacks while moving forward (to stop runners).
- Allow normals while turning in place (to prevent dancing around preventing attacks).
- Reduce strafing speed by 25% (to allow melee to attack properly)

Could work.

Normals while turning already works.
Strafe speed penalty, im against it since it only diminishes dynamic, a quick mouseturn will still allow side movement witt full speed. Normals while moving forward is not good idea imho. Sure the effective range on running ones is smaller now, still the fastest classes being able to shoot while chasing i dont like. Maybe strengthen movement penalty on ensnaring arrow..

[e30G]

Could work.

Normals while turning already works.
Strafe speed penalty, im against it since it only diminishes dynamic, a quick mouseturn will still allow side movement witt full speed. Normals while moving forward is not good idea imho. Sure the effective range on running ones is smaller now, still the fastest classes being able to shoot while chasing i dont like. Maybe strengthen movement penalty on ensnaring arrow..

An increased penalty for Ensnaring Arrow won't help the melee classes. As for the fastest classes being able to shoot while chasing, they can do it anyway if they wanted to now. It will at least make it harder for hunters to escape another hunter. I was also thinking a reduction in the passive speed bonus of hunters is fair. Coupled with a longer spring and Onslaught, warriors will at least have a better chance of actually landing a hit on hunters.

Strafe penalty can be ignored yes with the new system where ranged classes need to stop a bit longer to cast the first hit.


I'm all for more movement in war. Having to stop for everything you need to do in order to fight seems a bit old school. It's time for Regnum to move into the modern era and implement faster and more flowing gameplay instead of the static stuff we are seeing in Amun right now.

[Klutu]

mmm... we might be facing a design flaw on the new pre-cast implementation but there is something else that i would like to ask you guys.

we need to have a "penalty" for launching certain important/powerful spells...
This is not only part of the balance but of the actual challenge involved in playing melee classes too...

if you can cast while moving there is no penalty at all... whats the difference between that and instant casting? that you have to click a certain ammount of time before???

maybe you want us to do this casting while moving and triple the mana consumption of those spells?

we just don't understand.

As a Penalty while the casting for these spells that have a Casting Time.

Having a -15% Movement Speed

I wouldn't consider this to be a design flaw of course while we are casting these spells the Character would not be allowed to attack until there spell is full casted and there weapon speed would come into account.

to me this would work perfectly for warriors and possibly Archers.

[Dannboy]

Well, came back and tried again, this time im pleased ^^
Only bug I have experienced is that Spells on the hotbar shows lv 1 no matter what lv they are.
Except for that, you have been able to make me happy.
First update I can look forward to, no nerfs, just adds or fixes. Just the way I want it.

Regards from a Happeh Dannboy

[Arafails]

I'm getting cooldown resets - ie. whenever I cast a spell the cooldown of every other cooling spell resets to 100% cooldown time remaining, however this only affects the quickbar (cooldown continues as normal in the spellbook).

Example:


I cast Frenzy
I cast Accurate Swings -> Cooldown for Frenzy restarts on the quick bar
I cast Caution -> Cooldown for Frenzy and Accurate Swings restarts on the quick bar
I cast Thirst for Blood -> Cooldown for all three previously cast effects restarts.
I switch to the next spell bar with my offensive casts on it
I (successfully) cast South Cross -> Cooldown for Every previously cast spell restarts
I try some more attacks, everything restarts its cooldown period
Eventually the buffing effects wear off with cooldowns still nearly at 100% remaining
:fury:
Check spellbook -> Everything in the spellbook has cooldown times displayed as normal, disagreeing with the spell bar.


This is, for me, 100% reproduceable (64 bit Linux, for what it's worth). I'm not inclined to test anything further until this is no longer happening.


There is no precasting. There is no spell queueing. This applies to all spells, instant or not. This makes playing at least from a relatively high latency, unreliable connection quite difficult.

---

Couldnt test yet, but for me offensive spells should not make you stop when your about to precast them.

Eg. I want a quick ambush on someone chasing me. I precast ambush and turn+stop -> cast should go off.

Otherwise you will get troubles hitting a spell in time when you have to turn same second. (eg. You strafe out of some tree to instantly freeze which is eg, on bar1 slot 10. Without precast you have to either klick (Cant turn same time) or release arrow keys (no movement).

this is an exploit that only a very experienced player can get advantage of... you want to start casting when you are not meeting the criteria of FACING THE ENEMY and its only a couple of hundred milliseconds.

this kind of things generates unbalance between people with LOW PING and HIGH PING. Stuff that we also want to fix.

Sorry Chilko, but what Enio's saying makes sense, from the point of view of a person with HIGH PING (being on almost the exact opposite side of the Internet from your servers), who desperately wants to be able to prefer melee characters again. In actual fact I think it closes the gap between low and high ping somewhat to be able to do this.
Why? Even (especially) at close range, you can't guarantee that the target is going to be in range for long enough for a human reaction, and besides which you can only act on what you see (which is always out of date). At the delay time for an instuction packet to get to the server and, well you should be able to see where I'm going with this.

[-Edge-]

if you can cast while moving there is no penalty at all... whats the difference between that and instant casting? that you have to click a certain ammount of time before???

maybe you want us to do this casting while moving and triple the mana consumption of those spells?

we just don't understand.

I think you understand wrong. What we mean, is that in the current system, it is very relaxing to have your spells cast beforehand, this adds a whole new type of battle scheme in building and timing attacks.

Moreover the thing is that in the current system, while running and clicking a spell, you just stop, and do not continue running, or do not cast. You should cast at this point. Then when the cast is done, you should start running again. For me it was very hard to have to re-click everything like 10 times just because I attacked and ran. This doesn't help at all in ranged versus melee, the melee can now stall itself too.

To be honest, I would accept it if you tripled the mana consumption and allowed them to be cast while moving. It is just so much more organized, it is above the old system, and under the current one. It just doesn't make casting such a burden. Because right now, like I said, someone can easily dodge and move out of range of areas and arcs. So either you should increase area, or implement casting while moving.

Keep in mind I'm talking about warriors mainly here, as I saw there were few problems with it yesterday.



Having a -15% Movement Speed

Yes!

[Akooo]

Could work.

Normals while turning already works.
Strafe speed penalty, im against it since it only diminishes dynamic, a quick mouseturn will still allow side movement witt full speed. Normals while moving forward is not good idea imho. Sure the effective range on running ones is smaller now, still the fastest classes being able to shoot while chasing i dont like. Maybe strengthen movement penalty on ensnaring arrow..

Short after the last update with strafing i had an idea to decrease the imbalance about Archers/Warriors, which i still think isn't that bad and very simple.
Speed penalty for strafing 5% and for backwards 20% without the abiltiy to boost it (so also no passiv). This imo wouldn't destroy the movement dynamics and the action on the battlefield.

Even i don't mind the new combat system (i had some really interesting pvp's on amun), i think it is a regression compared to the current system, RO would loose something, making it unique in the increasing amount of MMORPGs. Battles would loose a lot of its action and dynamic - especially the dynamic which was introduced with the new movement system in last update.

The new animations aren't that bad for me, but especially the animation for mages, I think is only good for some spells (like Sultars Terror, Meteor, Lighting) for some other spells I like the old ones better (Crystal Blast, Fireball).

[_Enio_]

I see some issues with casting esp. areas while moving.
-You can cast them in a secure spot moving out for only the last splitsecond to apply the effect
-a moving target casting a spell will be harder to cc, especially for close range cc (stunning fist/kick/feint/sbash etc)
-current system of cancelling a spell wouldnt work for casting while moving.

The general idea of a more dynamic gameplay for melee should be of high priority though. Maybe you have a solution for mentioned issues.

[e30G]

I see some issues with casting esp. areas while moving.
-You can cast them in a secure spot moving out for only the last splitsecond to apply the effect
-a moving target casting a spell will be harder to cc, especially for close range cc (stunning fist/kick/feint/sbash etc)
-current system of cancelling a spell wouldnt work for casting while moving.

The general idea of a more dynamic gameplay for melee should be of high priority though. Maybe you have a solution for mentioned issues.

Well with my proposal, ranged units casting areas will have to stay still for the duration of cast time (since those are offensive spells). For warriors, there will should be a movement speed malus for that. Either way, the cast time itself for warrior areas is too short for what you stated to be a problem.

Feint and Kick are instant cast, so all the warrior has to do is get into range to cast it. I would guess Stunning Fist will be used more against units charging into you, and not archers charging into other units.

Current canceling you mean moving out of range? It should if you are faster. Or do you mean canceling via obstructions? In which case, it will still work since you can still put an obstruction (like a fort wall or rock) between you and the caster before the spell fires off. Remember in the suggestion I gave there were speed penalties for casting, and offensive spells will require ranged to stop for the cast time.

[Isemon]

guys we did say that there is nothing final right??? (stuff such as cast times GCD)? please let's talk about bigger issues.

How will be the gameplay is a big issue.
I play conju as well, it is my favourite class, and i know that 1 sec of delay can be enough to see your ally dead. Conju should stay as it is now, you already chaned it a lot making it harder to play, now you want to make things even worse?

[Mellion]

I tested Amun again. I am still shocked. Those changes are still crazy and will let me stop playing 100%.

[Pnarpa]

... and i know that 1 sec of delay can be enough to see your ally dead...

I fully agree to that. Some spells are just too vital. People are already mad as hell when you're just 1 second too late to heal them and they died. Now this class will become too hard to play.

[Onteron]

A change that needs to be undone:

On Amun now if a spell has the cooldown animation on the spellbar you can't cast it at all: the client doesn't bother checking if you can with the server. (In the live version the clients asks to cast the spell even if the cooldown animation is on.)

This would be fine except for the fact that you still have the bugs that cause the cooldowns for spells to be wrong, eg moving a spellbar button after casting it. Up to 1.0.7 these were just graphical problems though, because you could still cast the spells you were supposed to be able to.

[Pnarpa]

I think I found a bug (or I hope this isn't a feature). When I cast synergy bond on someone, my mana communion goes into the spell's cooldown. When I cast force armor, then karma mirror, mirage and mind blank go into their cooldown as well.

[Onteron]

I think I found a bug (or I hope this isn't a feature). When I cast synergy bond on someone, my mana communion goes into the spell's cooldown. When I cast force armor, then karma mirror, mirage and mind blank go into their cooldown as well.

Yeah as others posted above, there's currently a bug: whevever you cast a spell, for all buttons on your spellbar that are currently in cooldown, the cooldown animation starts again. (Doesn't affect CD animations in the spellbook or the actual CD values on the server.) The problem's also made worse by the point I mentioned above.

I'm sure they'll fix it first thing today since it kinda makes everything else hard to test :)

[Pnarpa]

Okay then. I really should read all the posts before mentioning. But 5-6 new pages is just too much. ^^

[_Enio_]

How will be the gameplay is a big issue.
I play conju as well, it is my favourite class, and i know that 1 sec of delay can be enough to see your ally dead. Conju should stay as it is now, you already chaned it a lot making it harder to play, now you want to make things even worse?
I tested Amun again. I am still shocked. Those changes are still crazy and will let me stop playing 100%.

The change of the combat system is in the first place a technical change which allows better balancing tweaks especially in regard to classspecific tweaks. The system is implemented for the good. Now general decisions have to be set (such as movement&casting rules). Then the fine tuning can start(such as dmg modifiers, casttimes for single spells not following general rules, gcd time tweaks etc.).

Dont you see they try and do the best to get that fucking complicated thing working, tweaked, fixed and improved 24/7 last days? Also they listen, discuss and communicate open with the community about our ideas and feelings about the changes.

Big Kudos to the way this update gets worked on. Fucking annoys me all the moaning to get back a system which is flawed like the old one. Try to help get the good things translated to the new system ffs. Negativity doesnt help at all. Stick with constructive criticism if possible.

[v0rt3x]

Yeah as others posted above, there's currently a bug: whevever you cast a spell, for all buttons on your spellbar that are currently in cooldown, the cooldown animation starts again. (Doesn't affect CD animations in the spellbook or the actual CD values on the server.) The problem's also made worse by the point I mentioned above.

I'm sure they'll fix it first thing today since it kinda makes everything else hard to test :)
Can confirm this bug.

And an old bug still exists:
Track Realm Enemy - Casttime: 1,5 sek <-- thats ok, but the animation is still 3 sek, so the animation is still 1,5 sek too long!

And please don´t let us wait so long for the first normal hit/shot (ranged classes). So the game goes staticly and not dynamicly.

[e30G]

The change of the combat system is in the first place a technical change which allows better balancing tweaks especially in regard to classspecific tweaks. The system is implemented for the good. Now general decisions have to be set (such as movement&casting rules). Then the fine tuning can start(such as dmg modifiers, casttimes for single spells not following general rules, gcd time tweaks etc.).

I agree with this. At this point in time, NGD and the players should focus on getting things to work and keep the game enjoyable. For this update at least, there is a healthy exchange of opinions between NGD and the players. I hope it doesn't end into a one-sided decision.

However, I think it's also healthy for players to express their concerns Enio. It gives a general idea on whether or not the coming update is a good thing or bad thing. Isemon is one of the people who expressed his concerns nicely with reason.

[Znurre]

About the "warriors casting non-instants while moving" discussion, here is my point of view:

I think this is a pretty reasonable change that will perhaps give warriors this little "extra" missing to spice them up in war - while still not making them too overpowered.
Because, something many people here seem to forget about is: casting an area while moving will only give you this benefit, you will still not be able to attack or cast any other skills/buffs during this time which will still make the warrior very vurnable to attacks.
I am not even sure if a speed reduction would be required.

What would be needed though is an indicator that a moving warrior is casting.
Maybe an icon above his head, a special stance?
I'd like to take some inspiration from Savage 2 here, using sprites on the ground beneath the player just like with Arcane Devotion for example.

A warrior who is moving while casting could get a circle beneath him on the ground, indicating that he is casting something.
Maybe also different look depending on if he's casting a non-damaging skill or not.

As for the problem with warriors starting to cast a skill in a safe area and then moving into an army unleashing it...
In a fort scenario, going trough the door would ofcourse still cancel the casting like always.

Also remember that the maximum casting time for a warrior area is 3 seconds.
And seriously, how far can you move in 3 seconds?
You would barely be able to move around a medium sized rock anyway, and besides whirlwind for example can already be used this way.

To me, enabling warriors to cast non-instant skills/buffs while moving would really add to the fun of the class.
Maybe it's what's needed to bring many players back to the class.

Consider it.

[Recoil]

Maybe an icon above his head, a special stance?

I agree. I have proposed this before and I will repeat: every spell should have an unique casting animation.

[Mellion]

The change of the combat system is in the first place a technical change which allows better balancing tweaks especially in regard to classspecific tweaks. The system is implemented for the good....

It would be ok in an alpha Version but not 2.5y after beta finished.

Long term business, like RO, should be about trust between company and clients. But this trust is gone.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

I'm really puzzled with this new combat system, but i don't say "no", i'll simply try to get used to it. My only concern in to remove those "ghost hits". They are really distracting. I like Znurrue's suggestions. I also had mine. About animations. Why don't you guys split animations, make it two, pre and post casting animation (of course this is valid only for spells with casting time)?
For the time being bugs noticed:
Mindpush is still bugged, works only in direct contact.
Cool down of summon is started by casting ANY power, which make it practically impossible to cast it for the second time.
There is still need, sometimes, to hit spell button twice to cast, even while standing still.

NGD, you have still a lot to do, but seeing all those patches i know you're working hard. Keep up good work.:thumb_up:

Now, to be mean. Sorry, but i'm angry and i have to tell.:fury: This thread has been hijacked by whining archers. AGAIN. Removing kiting ability is a very, very good thing for the balance.

[chassor]

As for the problem with warriors starting to cast a skill in a safe area and then moving into an army unleashing it...
In a fort scenario, going trough the door would ofcourse still cancel the casting like always.




why not simply let the spell where it was casted even if the barb moves , that avoid the "seek and destroy" exploit , area as are now you must think where to put it. even if i agree that warriors must be a bit more fast and dynamic , problems will occur and this "features" will be used and abused with the help of sprint and embes ...

[_Enio_]

It would be ok in an alpha Version but not 2.5y after beta finished.

Long term business, like RO, should be about trust between company and clients. But this trust is gone.
no doubt about the beta release but hey - ro prolly wouldnt exist now when they wovent have opened the game to get money.

To the efforts to fix basics now i can just say:
'Better late then never'

Also the current state can be considered broken and would not bring the game into the next year. Fist all moan about 'dirty fixes' and now where a better base to avoid dirty fixes gets implemented they earn bad vibes too. We get radical changes for the good of the game (enhanced gameplay dynamics, fixed combat system, new graphics). Improving the game just needs a proper base to work on. That base is shaping in 2009. See it positive, it has potential, especially when melee gets the dynamic gameplay-fun which ranged had over the last months. See it positive :)

[Heglin]

I guess most bugs on amun will be gone when the changes reach RA so my biggest concern is support Conjurers.

I've seen the numbers of support Conjurers drop really much the last few updates and i can't see that change with 1 sec cast time on Heal/regen Ally, synergy bond...

Since there is a class able to heal other classes it should be atleast as appealing for Conjurers to go for support as to go for damage.

[ArchmagusArcana]

Dont you see they try and do the best to get that fucking complicated thing working, tweaked, fixed and improved 24/7 last days? Also they listen, discuss and communicate open with the community about our ideas and feelings about the changes.

Big Kudos to the way this update gets worked on. Fucking annoys me all the moaning to get back a system which is flawed like the old one. Try to help get the good things translated to the new system ffs. Negativity doesnt help at all. Stick with constructive criticism if possible.

I agree 100%, this is the way an update should be done, with lots of back and forth between the end-user and the developers. This update has an amazing concept and so far NGD has been really responsive to fixing bugs as soon as they can and changing things that seem to tear up gameplay. Nothing is final yet, which is good. We have a great start here, we really do, and im glad that our feedback is not only listened to, but acted upon. Makes me glad for the last two years i spent here and all the money i spent on xym, so yes, lets stay positive and focus on whats good and what need to be kept, and not bitch about things must go, like kiting etc.

Great job NGD, thanks for the opportunity to help make this game better.

[chilko]

Why? Even (especially) at close range, you can't guarantee that the target is going to be in range for long enough for a human reaction, and besides which you can only act on what you see (which is always out of date). At the delay time for an instuction packet to get to the server and, well you should be able to see where I'm going with this.

you don't know how the system works... the command is sent immediately, the cast happens on the server there is no delay, we had to add casting time as it was much faster than with the previous system where the server started the attack

[_dracus_]

What I want from the new combat system is more dynamic in fight.

I really loved the idea (even if it was not really intended) of casting in movement. I think it would be good for self buffs. It would really bring dynamic to the fight.

I'd say melee attack should be same (so warriors stuff, but also stun fist, mind push, crystal blast, etc.)

From an archer point of view I think the penality put on Ranged class should be tuned down, I mean kitting or straffing shouldn't be THE only defense, but it should permit an archer to avoid the first blow (a bit like a real dodge movement).

And last but, IMO the most important for RvR, Conjuror support skills (auras's excluded) have to be instant especially heals and dispell.

[Isemon]

What I want from the new combat system is more dynamic in fight.

I really loved the idea (even if it was not really intended) of casting in movement. I think it would be good for self buffs. It would really bring dynamic to the fight.

I'd say melee attack should be same (so warriors stuff, but also stun fist, mind push, crystal blast, etc.)

From an archer point of view I think the penality put on Ranged class should be tuned down, I mean kitting or straffing shouldn't be THE only defense, but it should permit an archer to avoid the first blow (a bit like a real dodge movement).

And last but, IMO the most important for RvR, Conjuror support skills (auras's excluded) have to be instant especially heals and dispell.

i completely agree with you :D this would be good

[theotherhiveking]

What about if all warrior casting where longer and they could cast while in movement?

Say, for example a riposte would take 2 secs, and you must be inside the enemy range for the whole casting time, Jaw breaker could take 1.75 (the maces have no range), buffs would take between 1.5 and 2.5 too.
Intants raised to 0.75 or 1 for spears.

Warriors still have their skills interrupted by range, so i think that could make the game more interesting, and make stuff like brain pierce interesting again with some changes (it could work like a buff that tiggers next attack, as it is now it is kinda useless)

No idea if that would work out, but it does sound more dinamic, and favor players that know how to use controls with warriors.

Just a idea, im sure it has already been discused inside NGD but i think i lose nothing trying :p

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

What about if all warrior casting where longer and they could cast while in movement?


I'll be straight. It would be stupid. 100% chance for canceling.

[Klutu]

What about if all warrior casting where longer and they could cast while in movement?

Say, for example a riposte would take 2 secs, and you must be inside the enemy range for the whole casting time, Jaw breaker could take 1.75 (the maces have no range), buffs would take between 1.5 and 2.5 too.
Intants raised to 0.75 or 1 for spears.

Warriors still have their skills interrupted by range, so i think that could make the game more interesting, and make stuff like brain pierce interesting again with some changes (it could work like a buff that tiggers next attack, as it is now it is kinda useless)

No idea if that would work out, but it does sound more dinamic, and favor players that know how to use controls with warriors.

Just a idea, im sure it has already been discused inside NGD but i think i lose nothing trying :p


Awesome Idea! adding the longer Casting times mixed with a penalty like Negative Movement Speed would work in perfectly.

allowing archers to avoid the attack by canceling the warriors spell by knocking stunning ect..

[Xiko]

Please try to follow me on this metaphor with other games:
Regnum was starting to look like Quake, where if you are not an experienced twitchy player with a great computer playing with 100 ms of ping you had no chance (specially if you where a melee class). We want to make it more like CounterStrike where teamplay (and some balance decisions) makes it more reasonable for a new or casual user. A skilled CounterStrike player can still dominate but its more fun for everyone.

No no no ... "Diablo 2" looks like "Quake". "Regnum" is now a dinamic and teamplay game like "Counter Strike", and you will go to convert it in an adventure graphic game like "The Secret Of Monkey Island" :)

Turok

[Angelwinged_Devil]

please look at this video: does anyone of you consider this fair & challenging gameplay? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vllA9uZ7I
(let alone how ugly it looks to be able to shoot in any direction just because you can move during the attack)

it doesn't matter if it's hard/challenging/easy way he grinds, the problem with your grinding system is that it's BORING, it's repetion of kiling an npc, try it out with no premium or admin commands and you'll start to get the dullness of any player though I understand your point of view, while I have no problem with what I see in this video as grinding is so BORING, I have a problem when it's against another class, there's a big difference from fighting players to fighting mobs.

Making warriors move while casting and slowing down ranged classes while they are casting/normal attacking is a great way to go and a really innovative solution from your part.


I think this is a pretty reasonable change that will perhaps give warriors this little "extra" missing to spice them up in war - while still not making them too overpowered.
Because, something many people here seem to forget about is: casting an area while moving will only give you this benefit, you will still not be able to attack or cast any other skills/buffs during this time which will still make the warrior very vurnable to attacks.
I am not even sure if a speed reduction would be required.

What would be needed though is an indicator that a moving warrior is casting.
Maybe an icon above his head, a special stance?
I'd like to take some inspiration from Savage 2 here, using sprites on the ground beneath the player just like with Arcane Devotion for example.

A warrior who is moving while casting could get a circle beneath him on the ground, indicating that he is casting something.
Maybe also different look depending on if he's casting a non-damaging skill or not.

As for the problem with warriors starting to cast a skill in a safe area and then moving into an army unleashing it...
In a fort scenario, going trough the door would ofcourse still cancel the casting like always.

Also remember that the maximum casting time for a warrior area is 3 seconds.
And seriously, how far can you move in 3 seconds?
You would barely be able to move around a medium sized rock anyway, and besides whirlwind for example can already be used this way.

To me, enabling warriors to cast non-instant skills/buffs while moving would really add to the fun of the class.
Maybe it's what's needed to bring many players back to the class.

I believe that znurre is in the right road with this solution, I think that the warrior might need to glow some kind of special glow when he's casting.

[GIO879]

No no no ... "Diablo 2" looks like "Quake". "Regnum" is now a dinamic and teamplay game like "Counter Strike", and you will go to convert it in an adventure graphic game like "The Secret Of Monkey Island" :)

Turok

I totaly agree with turok you kill all the game play, the funny and your money rent

we play every the days since 2 years ago, we know what we are (talking about just come with us one evening and play and you will see is there aren't enough tatics in the game ( french warriors of syrtis ) you welcome to fight with us

[Fiver]

As a hunter I see the following:

1. track enemy is still a crap shoot=worthless because so unreliable
2. passive speed has no purpose because the attacks requires you to NOT MOVE AT ALL.

Some advice to NGD:



Stop coding...... get your team together and play the game for couple days normal server.
Just play and take forts and hunt and have an invasion attempt....ect

Then do an after action report and noting the obvious major problems.

maybe post you reactions to what you find a problem on forums and have a disscussion.

THEN get some Tylonol ( for the massive headache you'll get ) try the same thing on test server.


I say this because this New Movment System on the test server misses so badly in so many areas it almost like you've never played your own game.

If the problem is that archers/ranged are to overpowered and melee classes have no chace because of the :beerchug: speed and range then...

1. balance the damage difference/ defense difference between classes a bit and and lower the range of all ranged classes.


anyway good luck ill pop in once in awhile to see how things go, but i hold little hope for what was the best most dynamic game on the market.
:beerchug:

[Warthog]

For me the bug where all spells cooldowns that were running are reset when a new spell is cast on quickbar is now fixed. TY I can now actually test again without having to try to cast everything from in the spellbook. :)

A few things I would like to see changed, please can you try lower the cast time of spells like heal dispell, even to 0.5 secs for now, I know this is not major problem an will be adressed in the end but it would help us in seeing how our class will be playable.

Also I really would like to see where movement did not have to be restarted after a spell was cast with cast time. Like if you were on auto-run with a 2 sec spell cast after the cast you would start to run again as soon as possible. I would like this for all classes. Make it so that say you have forward action clicked and holding down you would start running forward again if and only if you held it down. If you released it, then hit again during cast time you would cancel the spell. I think this would help with keeping fights dynamic in how people move around alot, yet also make it so you can stop a long casting spell if the person who you have targeted moves out of range or behind you or w/e. Or if you misclick and start casting the wrong thing you can still cancel it.

Another thought though this is probably not feasible and would in fact mess up what I asked for in the last paragraph, unless canceling of spells was changed to a clickable button and not dependant on movement. Allow all classes to cast while moving (or even just warriors, would need to be tried both ways). They stop to start casting then you can release the forward motion an start moving again while casting. I don't think a speed malus shhould be applied to this, but a mana penalty. So if you cast standing as normal mana cost would be normal. If you cast then started to move again during cast time the cost of mana for the spell would become doubled or tripled then the normal cost for using the advantage of moving while cast time is going. As mana drain is very hard now for warriors and archers, this would make using the cast while moving thing a strategic option IMO. Cause yeah you can get an area off easier where you want it but at the cost of not being able to have much mana left once you get there to do other things other then normal attacks. Yes it would probably be abused but hey, it is the best I can think of atm.



Edit: I will go back to an earlier thought too, I honestly believe that warriors should be given Strategic postion to use with shorter duration and longer cooldown then marksmen have to be able to cast for the initial rush to get themselves into range of ranged classes but not much more then that, once they get there they would have to rely on what they have now and wait say 3 mins to be able to cast it again. The duration could be say 5 seconds longer then duration of onslaught so if that is ever increased then this would be increased as well.

[ZericOfGa]

Just retried the classes. I logged into Amun and the first thing i saw was a Knight with a dragon wings bow. Are you serious?? This game has classes. They look different for a reason you take the bow off and it just looks like a knight that too their weapon and shield off.

Suggestion: make swaps in-class only. Meaning, marksmen and hunters can swap armor. Knights and barbs can swap armor, conjs and locks can switch theirs. Its confusing as hell! I do not understand why a hunter or marksman should be able to look like a knight. Its absurd.

Kyro pointed out the animation of "missing" your opponent. I think you said earlier that was an intended animation, however, it will not appear so to new players: they will make the action of attacking, not actually hit, call it a bug, and leave the game. I understand the theory behind it, trying to make it more realistic, but Regnum is a game. Realism isn't truly the goal.

[linearguild]

Suggestion: make swaps in-class only. Meaning, marksmen and hunters can swap armor. Knights and barbs can swap armor, conjs and locks can switch theirs. Its confusing as hell! I do not understand why a hunter or marksman should be able to look like a knight. Its absurd.

I agree. Armor gives a visual cue of an enemy's class, so allowing cross-class swaps is too chaotic. In fact, I would prefer that you can only swap items strictly within a subclass (e.g. marksman item attributes cannot be transferred to a hunter item or an archer item, it can be transferred to another marksman item only).

[RegnumIrae]

we need to have a "penalty" for launching certain important/powerful spells...

Then remove the casting time from Deflect Proyectiles, Etheral Mantle, Rigorous Preparation and Intuition :D

[Mattdoesrock]

I agree. Armor gives a useful visual cue of an enemy's class and allowing cross-class swaps is too chaotic. In fact, I would prefer that you can only swap items strictly within a subclass (e.g. marksman item attributes cannot be transferred to a hunter item or an archer item, it can be transferred to another marksman item only).

Yeah I definatly agree.

On amun early there was a conju in a party hat, who then meteored someone...

If this was carried over to the live servers it'd be chaos, you'd have no idea who is who. Just look at this:


http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4663/screenshot2009091816034.jpg




You can make some nice looks though. :wub2:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2999/screenshot2009091815332.jpg

[Zixmund]

Well I tried to play a bit on Amun with my noob lvl 29 Lock and crap lvl 46 Hunter...With Lock was fine but I tried to grind with my Hunter and it was the most painfull experience in game..I miss the natural > Tap back - Ambush or Tap forward - Dualshot... I hope this update will not cost of the dynamic battles in this great game.

And thank you NGD for discussing it with us and for your hard work on this game :hat::horsey:

[backe]

I definitely agree that item swap should only work on gear within the same sub-class.

I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but does it work for shields? If so, you could basically "dress" your barb as a knight (with a level 5 warrior shield) and switch weapons once you get in range. That could really mess with peoples heads.

Same goes for Matt's example of a conju dropping a meteor.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Armour is a key part of idetifying a subclass, I dont think there should be knights runing about in hunter armour...

[Inkster]

we need to have a "penalty" for launching certain important/powerful spells... This is not only part of the balance but of the actual challenge involved in playing melee classes too...

ENERGY BARRIER IS A MAGES ARMOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

implement it, give mages an armour with the same protection as the other classes

THIS IMO IS AN ABUSE AS MAGES LOSE OUT! ALL OTHER CLASSES OTHER THAN MAGES HAVE SEMI -DECENT ARMOUR MAGES DO NOT!

FIX THIS NEW BUG BEFORE YOU IMPLEMENT IT

[e30G]

I suggest global cooldown to be adjusted to actually reflect the power of the spell previously casted:

NGD should minimize dead time in the game. GCD adds dead time. Personally, a "global" cooldown of spells won't work. A cooldown between spells depending on the spell previously casted is better but more complicated to implement. A cast of terror for example would trigger a slightly longer global cooldown than a cast of fireball.

To simplify you can even just divide trees into 3. With a global cooldown of lets say 1.5 secs, you can make the first 5 spells take 50% of GCD (0.75 secs) before the next spells can be casted, the next 3 spells in the tree take 75% (1.1 secs) before the next spell can be casted and 100% (1.5 secs) for the next spell can be casted. This is assuming the strongest spells are at the end of each tree.

[-Edge-]

Yeah I definatly agree.

On amun early there was a conju in a party hat, who then meteored someone...

If this was carried over to the live servers it'd be chaos, you'd have no idea who is who. Just look at this:


http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4663/screenshot2009091816034.jpg




You can make some nice looks though. :wub2:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2999/screenshot2009091815332.jpg
Lol that's nothing. I saw a barbarian wearing knight armor, but the funniest part was that he had a Medusa shield. It took me a couple of glances watching his skills like Onslaught till I figured out holy crap its a barb.

Anyway, I disagree with what people say against the attribute scrolls. They create diversity, sure it is something you are not used to seeing, but neither were dragon armors when NGD implemented those... Buffs, and weapon will always be visible.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Sqrew diversity, its a step to far swapping armours around, being able to identify a class by its avatar is a key part of the game, mages - untill they cast a tell tale spell could be anything, Knights in hunter gear, barbs as knights, hunters as barbs... its just to silly.

[chassor]

NGD tried to fix unbalance since a moment , nerfs after nerfs we don't have the same game we had when i joined (as much people) ex :

NGD introduces strafing (we wasn't asked for) now NGD tries to resolve the straffing kite "features/bug/whatever ..." (after watching a vid), why not just remove strafing ?

Why not just going back in the update history to see where thing start to go bad and rework from there , i really think that if regnum return to pre1.0 version and be worked from there for the balancing it will be far better than was is now and far far far better than what we see in amun.

+ a balance does not only mean nerf , you can add something to a classes (sometimes) instead of all time removing

[e30G]

Posted in the wrong thread:

IMO any ranged class should stand a chance to kill a melee class but it should take bloody long to do so. The logic behind this is that a melee character should have enough defensive capability to charge an army, usually this is against a hail of arrows. That is the difficulty of finding balance in the game. How can you make a melee fighter withstand multiple ranged attacks and survive to function while allowing 1 vs 1 ranged fighters to have an equal chance of winning in the open field.

That is why I think casting while moving should be allowed for ALL classes, and warriors should have increased defense and slightly longer speed buffs.

[David-Ignis]

I don't believe that nerfing the archers is the solution. Eliminating the piggyback is surely a good thing, that was an advantage for the ranged chars respect to the warriors. The caba has put on in a ridiculous character, more than the barbarian, and it only serves as mule according to my opinion. It is easy to run for 50 seconds and to make him normal of 400-500 with a marksman or killing slowly with a hunter. To improve the of the warriors it is necessary to take measures in the field of the skills and not to change the game totally. Clearly to reduce the range in degrees of archers' attack is a fair thing. There are many useless skills for the warriors that could be changed by defense skills that could allow to of reach those of range. For example it is something unthinkable that a barb has frenzy and the caba nor. To the caba and the barb you could implement a similar skill so to Strategic" "Position so there qould be no need to nerf archer's damage. To make better the branch of spears could be nice: for example to Disable Limb could be changed to Cancel and The area could return to its origin. To also increase the duration of "return" could be one another good thing. I find ridiculous to say that the game will put on more dynamic.. for the time being it is but necessary correct the skills and to change those that are never used.. those they are my opinions..
Greetings

[Comp]

Update from me - a Hunter:

I had a lot of PvE with mobs and a ton of PvP and I'm now comfortable with the changes. It's an interesting way to play to say the least and takes alot of getting used it. It's different and people don't like change.

HOWEVER

I have no problems killing mobs and have learned a fighting method to win so I'm good to go now. Most of the bugs I've noticed are pretty much fixed (like the cool-down bug). I'm not a warrior so I can't talk on their behalf but as a hunter I can say....the changes won't kill you - stop being over-dramatic.

WORD OF CAUTION:
Some real thinking needs to go into mages though (conjurers especially). In large fights they are going to have a lot of difficulty supporting the army IF their spells are canceled when they move.

[-Haley-]

Good work.

A little thing to be said : The movements are more realistic, but it's rather ugly to look, and that hurts my eyes ><.
Movements seems longer, and still with some bugs (I know, it is going to be fixed).

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/618/majregnum1.jpg

I prefer almost this old mode... =(

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3527/screenshot2009071920222.jpg

Another thing, this new system bellow is very similar to that practiced by World of Warcraft (oh my god, please spare us that!).
There is already a cast speed, lasted during which one we cannot cast another power... why that ? ;(

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4356/screenshot2009091820012.jpg

[Ulmanyar]

I stopped reading at page 7, but I'll catch up reading later. I just have to comment on this:

if you can shot and move from a 40mts range... and actually move faster than a class that can only attack you from 1.5 mts...

how in the world are those guys going to be able even reach you?

Of course they won't be able to reach you if they have to stop every time they have to buff or cast anything. From what I understand the "bug" with warriors casting while moving people actually liked it, and to me it seems (without a lot of testing) - this change might actually change the gameplay for warriors quite a lot and make them better suited for fights with ranged.

Think it over. Give us a few days/a week to heavily test it and see how it works.



Everybody standing still really makes the game feel quite silly and stupid - and even more: really slow!

[drunk_harlot]

I try not to get involved in the more heated forum debates these days, and prefer to keep my head down and just enjoy the game. I've always trusted that changes that at first seemed unusual are all ultimately taking the game forward. Playing Trix, in the manner I wish to play Trix, as a "rouge" rather than a hunter or ranger type character, is central to my playing experience. I fully take on board rouges are not specifically available in the RO game world, however, there was always enough room for being creative with a class's powers to make a character feel unique. Though the RPG elements in RO aren't as strong as they might be, you could still find a middle ground between being creative and fun and competing in war.

Sorry to go off on a tangent there, I don't mean to redirect the focus of discussion, I guess I was just clarifying my stance on the game before I continued.

So since version 1.0 we've all had to adapt to a lot of changes, it was hard watching members of the Ghosts quit or become disillusioned with their main characters as changes came about that effected the design of their class so deeply they had to radically redesign their power build or play a different class. I was never willing to give up with Trix in this respect. when Evasion was drastically lowered, Alexis Manion helped me retest the entire evasion tree in the arena to find an alternate solution. I didn't use Cats Reflexes to get a ridiculously high passive evasion so I could be "superior" in the game, I used it because it fitted well with the idea of a Rogue. After 1.0 the tests showed it's effect was so negligible I had to switch to a new set of powers.

Other changes happened along the way, notably the change to the dual shot cool down. If I had wanted to be all powerful in this game in damage terms, I'd give in and use a pet, but Rouge's aren't known for their ability to tame creatures. So I spent a few weeks resetting, trying to get a balance of damaging spells that still gave the character the right feel and allowed me to compete in the war zone.

When strafing came about, I think it took some players I know mere hours to work out you could run circles around mobs and melee classes without them ever stiking a blow on you. Many players repeatedly and excitedly offered to teach me how to do this so I could "beat everyone", as you can guess by the tone of this post I wasn't remotely interested. I've never even used SOTW aside from escaping occasionally when I really didn't want to be killed by a certain enemy. I'm speaking from the point of view of my Rogue-hunter, but reading this thread I can see many other classes, and approaches to classes are badly effected.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, firstly - we're not all here to exploit the game for the highest level of killing efficiency, maybe most of us are but not all of us. There is a RPG element to this game, and there are RPG minded players who like this game and use the diversity of the powers to define their character. Every time you're forced to tear your beloved creation apart, it kind of kills a little more of your soul, a little more of your enthusiasm to sign on. Though I do accept the RPG element to RO is a minority, there are a whole lot of archers who play this game to be something more than a sniper or a pet hunter, removing the ability to play characters that occupy the middle ground of mobility, evasion and close range skirmishing destroys an entire area of approaches to playing an archer.

As many have suggested, subtle changes like putting a reasonable speed nerf on strafing (who can run sideways as fast as they can run forwards?), implementing a speed nerf on back pedaling (I'm fully aware that didn't go well last time but I think it may be preferable to all this complexity, the main part I didn't like was that the animation was changed to walking rather than jogging backwards so it made the character look bored of the fight), returning onslaught to it's former glory, even removing piggy backing.

I think this is the most vocally critical I've been of any changes in RO since I started playing, which is a long time now, and it's because I'm concerned like many others It might be the end of the game for me, a game I've loved dearly, and has been the basis of many friendships and stories.

I just can't help but feel if this was about warriors getting a raw deal, which I'm totally supportive of correcting, some subtle tweaks to archers ability to stay out of reach, and some subtle tweaks to warriors abilities in pursuing would have solved the problem, nobody would have had to tear up their characters builds, only a small minority would be talking about quitting the game, there will always be some, sure. There had been so many cool things happen in the last year or so, the custom mounts, the "potential" of invasions (as a new aspect to the game, appreciating they are not perfect), the enhanced initiation zones with more dynamic quests, the new premium content and character customisation. And the announcement of the new engine and character models had me totally excited for weeks. Then behind all this there seems to have been a steady decline in the actual playing dynamic, barbarians rarely use the new areas and can't be bothered with the new onslaught, knights can't be bothered with the limited area defensive auras, and I don't seem to block on Doll anymore without Protector, every change to hunters pushes all hunters into becoming pet hunters.

It just seems sad. I hope some moderated solution to this new combat system is arrived at, or it's completely dumped in favour of smaller adjustments. Selfishly speaking, I want to play Trix like I want to play Trix, or at least close to it. In regards to the bigger picture, this vision of a static battle field of archers lined up like statues on the fort wall and warriors smashing away at each other on the battle field in a big group, is very organised, and I think I can see what you were trying to do, but also potentially very boring to play.

I'm not a big fan of the test server, seeing changes in flux tends to make me feel more pessimistic, but I may sign on. I admit I've been playing something different for the past few days, for the first time since I started playing RO. I do intend to give RO a fair chance after the patch is implemented on Horus, probably a week of tearing Trix's build apart to see if playing anything but a Sniper or pet hunter is possible, if not I'll probably say goodbye, and hold on to the good memories.


Sorry the post was so long, thanks for your time, and for those I haven't spoke to in a while, heh there, and if it comes to it bye.

[-Edge-]

[...]
I hope your voice was heard. I heard it.

[dani-o]

I stopped reading at page 7, but I'll catch up reading later. I just have to comment on this:

if you can shot and move from a 40mts range... and actually move faster than a class that can only attack you from 1.5 mts...

how in the world are those guys going to be able even reach you?


Of course they won't be able to reach you if they have to stop every time they have to buff or cast anything. From what I understand the "bug" with warriors casting while moving people actually liked it, and to me it seems (without a lot of testing) - this change might actually change the gameplay for warriors quite a lot and make them better suited for fights with ranged.

Think it over. Give us a few days/a week to heavily test it and see how it works.



Everybody standing still really makes the game feel quite silly and stupid - and even more: really slow!

i just want to add

Si un Cazador invierte sus puntos en poderes propios de su subclase, los cuales están orientados a darle mayor velocidad, es lógico que una subclase guerrera no pueda darle alcanze corriendo en linea recta.

"If a hunter invests their points in powers of his own subclass, which are oriented in give him more speed, is logic that a warrior subclass could not reach him running in traight line"
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=741763&postcount=13

sad thing is they went to fast with the nerf on warriors, that they made the whole class archer faster that the warriors.

i dont know whay chilko ask us for a response to "how a warrior could reach an archer"

my response to that would be give us onslaught back!

if they have ruined the warriors gameplay making them slowers, and weakers why they try to fix them ruining raged class gameplay?

im so :fury:

[drunk_harlot]

As mentioned I'm not a big fan of the test server, but since these appear to be troubled times I decided to give it a go.

In short, from the point of an archer, I *REALLY* can see what you are trying to do. I think a set of subtle adjustments on the existing combat model would have been far simpler, but I can see what you were trying for.

Currently it feels cheap, and uncertain, and confusing. For this to work (I do appreciate you are still making changes) the relationship between player input, cancellation control, animations, hits contacting with the target, and the display of log data showing results, needs to be vastly improved. At the moment I feel like I'm waving my bow about in a random manner, and occasionally some numbers appear in the log telling me the monster I'm trying to fight appears to have been damaged.

I can see how this could eventually work, if it's much refined in terms of animation feed back, and there's a more solid feel of shots connecting and missing, but I think you've made life hard for yourselves, as it felt pretty solid and playable before the changes.

Unless you really think you can achieve that in the next few weeks, I'd backtrack to the previous model, make some reasonable nerfs and tweaks as many people have suggested, put all your energy into the new engine and player models, which people are genuinely positive and excited about, then when they are done everyone can put this to the back of their minds, the forum will be besieged with praise for your handwork, and we'll all sign on and be happy.


I'll sign on again when the patch is implemented to give it a fair try, I do wish you luck with your development whatever you choose to do.