Version 1.0.8's impact on Warriors

[Kyrottimus]

Having only played Archers and Warriors with this update, I can only lend opinion regarding their affected changes.

In this thread, I shall focus on both the positive aspects of the new combat system and those I see as negative.

Positive: Global Cooldown (GCD) revamp. It sort of levels the playing field for all classes at their foundations.

Negative: While I like GCD and the implemented concept, it does bring with it some negative results. First of which is that other spells, created and balanced before this revamped GCD system, have not been tuned to work in sync with the new system.

For instance: Ripost, Shield Bash, Howl, Roar, etc. all have a casting time of 0.5 seconds. With the new GCD system, even instant spells have a greater delay to cast than in 1.0.7. This compounds to make 0.5 second cast spells (both direct and area) much harder to pull off.

EXAMPLE: Get on a Knight character, and stand still in your arena had have a friend on a mage character run around in a circle around you. Try to get shield bash to trigger. It is very difficult to get this to work on a moving target, and I can't even get it to cast myself if I'm moving.

Same for Ripost, Howl, Roar, etc.


In 1.0.7, warriors did enjoy a good rhythm to combat. It was fairly fast, transitioned well between normals and spells/buffs, and was fluid and easy to learn.

Now, it's far more stop-go, herky jerky, awkward and cumbersome to buff and execute certain non-instant attack spells.


Granted, it is more of a fair matchup between warriors and archers/mages with this new system, but I still find it far more frustrating to enjoy the flow of combat as I did in 1.0.7. I used to grind my knight quite a bit vs. Aquantis Captains. Since they spam their crazy area-knock attack all the time (aquantis thrust), I would usually lead off with shield bash4.

It was easy, I'd select an Aquantis Captain, targeting it, and as I'm running up I'd click on my Shield Bash4 hotkey. As soon as I'd get in range, my knight would stop, cast timer begain immediately upon reaching range of target and stopping, and as long as the target stayed in range, my knight would execute his shield bash attack.

This was the same method by which I used it upon enemy players. Sometimes they were able to avoid it by getting out of range as it cast, but there was a margin of error and if you knew how to approach a moving target it wasn't hard at all to make it work.


Now, if you want to do a spell like shield bash, or ripost, or roar or howl or any non-instant as a warrior, you literally have to stop in place and wait 2 seconds (yes, spell says 0.5 seconds to cast but there is a 1-2 second delay between normals and spells now). Even if I approach a target with my character not in attack-mode, and click on shield bash, it takes a solid 1-2 seconds before it even begins cast-timer.


This results in a far slower, clunkier flow of combat and frankly if it is not changed, I will not skill shield bash anymore because it is hard enough to get work on mobs, let alone a moving player. And no, knocking down a player + shield bash wouldn't work, because dizzy does not affect knocked opponents.


I use shield bash mostly as an example because it used to be a staple skill for my knight. Now the go-stop-go-stop type of fighting is boring, uninspiring and cumbersome.

I realize that there will still be tweaking on 1.0.8, I just hope that the "flow" of warrior combat is brought back to the same "feel" (or close to it) as 1.0.7 with how spells trigger while I or my opponent move.



I'd really hate to see 2 players just standing still, spamming spells. I'd miss the circling, strafing, running around while fighting excitement of 1.0.7 with warriors.

On my archer I can maintain a good rhythm of fighting, even while standing still. Let's give that to warriors again. Fix the cast-times and triggering of warriors spells. Make it so they can all be cast while moving (both auto-run and movement keys), instead of getting canceled by movement. Same with archers, make it so that when one is running, and they click a buff or spell, they will stop, cast/buff/attack, and continue movement after completed.

The movement of your char, pretty much canceling everything, destroys the flow of combat with all classes.






It would be nice for other warriors to opine about this. I'm sure I'm not the only one to have noticed my fluidity of warrior combat to have been hamstrung.

--Kyro

[ZericOfGa]

My opinion is that Knights = Useless Warriors with shiny armor and lots of hp.

Honestly I feel like a cement block running around doing nothing. Here are my issues:

In war:

Knights need more controlling spells. Plain and simple. I would not mind in the least to not have one attack/damage spell on my spell bar. Unfortunately, do to fact that the Shields tree is (still) worthless, people are leveling their weapon trees to 15 to get passive resist damage (which is broken/less then it should be).

NGD, please, look at the role you want knights to play, whatever that might be, and analyze why we can't do it. Warriors get 2 extra trees on choosing a subclass and one of them isn't worth leveling. This is a HUGE problem.

Superbosses:

I'm sorry, but barbs and marksmen should not be the only ones getting drops. Knights are supposed to be the warrior-version of a conj: higher defenses, less need for heals. So what do Knights, warlocks, and hunters get from super bosses? Nothing.

Also the lack of knight drops is appalling. Evendim's axe, with +6 const SHOULD be a knight weapon. The hammer, being +strength should remain barbarian.

Knights take the longest to level to 50, and when they get there, what reward is there? Nothing. Barbs, mages, and archers get drops. Barbs can use both knight and barb drops. I'm sorry, but if it takes so damn long to get a knight to 50, there should be a weapon or shield or something worth looking forward to that is special for knights.

Work on the drop after you figure out how to make knights useful again. I feel stupid as hell being level 49 and having no role in mind for my gameplay.

[Kyrottimus]

I'll simplify my original post:

The movement of your char, pretty much canceling everything, destroys the flow of combat with all classes.

[Znurre]

I agree 100%.
This is what I've been saying all the time during my testing on Amun, and now (so far) my experienced on RA.

I have to choose to either do normal hits, or use skills all the time - or I will reduce my dps alot!
Also, attackspeed% does not affect the time between hits/skills the slightest which makes the situation even worse.

I do not understand how people can call this patch an improvement for warriors.
As barb, I feel really badly nerfed - and not because I feel weak, but because the funny parts of the warrior gameplay is gone.

Yeah, sure - I can buff up with TFB and the new Berzerk and go around causing 1k+ hits trough all armor.
How fun... right...

I cannot however, make a normal hit on one enemy and then cast a Deafening Roar within a reasonable time.
The same goes for all instant skills.

If I happen to cancel my area casting right after a terror I have to wait around 2.5 sec to be able to even start to casting it again.
Everything just feel so sluggish and clumsy.

[gluffs]

I agree, the upgrade from what i understood was to tune down the archers
and make warriors better. I cant say much about barbarians since i havent
tested mine yeat. BUT knights is harder to play now, the delays on instas
make it hard for us to get off knocks/brainpierce etc. And like Kyro said,
trying to get off a shield bash in combat is allmost impossible now whit the
high delay before it starts casting.

And the role off knights protecting allys is even harder since we cant act
quick anymore against multiple targets.Before the update i could atleast
knock 2 players fast and then gett off balestra/ribsbraker on a third target.
And further, knights had low base dmg as it was before, the nerf on dmg
was uncalled for. Its not like knights had a reputation off destroying their
enemy whit brute force. So to sum up what the update did for knights.

Slow and sluggish combat
Low dmg
More nerfs in our buffs

So i really dont understand how this will increase the number off warriors.
IMO this update will increase the number off warlocks. So i hope NGD will
give knights perhaps an area cc spell in vanguard or something and fix the
very very annoying delay that occurs when we want to cast a skill/spell.

Ofc the area cc is just a dream, but the delays could be fixed and it would
be fun to play rather then frustrating due to the fact you slam on the
keybord trying to get off your brainpierce and it fires after mage has
finished his spell.

[bois]

Yes , I must agree with all the posts above.
I usually pay knight and must admit that I hoped knight would have had a little attention this time.
Sadly, the touch we got was the raising of troll skin to 4.5 minutes. While I feel I can adjust over time to the new system, I am now forced into a stand and deliver or run and slash (normal attacks) approach. Because I play Molok and have not been blessed with much +constitution armour (only a +2 piece) I usually had a set-up based on atkspeed to compensate for my low constitution and higher strength. It is an unusual set-up for knight but the high speed usually compensated quite well.
Having a super fast corsair sabre and attack speed bonus armour have been basically nullified by the update. While not a problem per Se, I feel that the advantages gained by attack speed are now basically eliminated. Having a slow axe is now more useful than a faster weapon.
Troll skin, I feel should have the same cool down as the spell time. Its not as if that skill gave knights any real advantage in a battle, as it allowed only us to soak in only 1 or 2 more hits.
As for auras, I just can't be bothered to skill anything other than heroic presence, for the reasons mentioned on various other posts on the forum.

As for Zeric's post :
Yes the shield tree should be looked at and I would go even further to say Vanguard need to be looked at as well. I tested Awareness and Rigorous Preparation to lvl 5 each and despite the lower cast, it simply is useless. I gain nothing in defence and as such I still will stay away from those two.


As is, I love playing knight and will persist and adjust to suit but I do hope the knight gets a review for the next update.

[Brother-brian]

I am frustrated by being a warrior who hits for less dmg than archers. I understand Barbs, who hit harder, but suffer in hps. But, where barbs can hit for 1500+ buffed, I am only hitting between 3-400, 500 crit. When I go into battle, even with ao1, i get ignored until enough allys are dead that ALL the enemy can concentrate on me, meanwhile I am struggling to get in a single hit, and when I do, its for 346 or 371, someting pretty useless like that. IMHO, knights should be able to deal more damage. Not as much as a barb, but more than we do right now.

And now we are forced into a 30sec interval where we cant cast trollskin?

[Znurre]

I am frustrated by being a warrior who hits for less dmg than archers. I understand Barbs, who hit harder, but suffer in hps. But, where barbs can hit for 1500+ buffed, I am only hitting between 3-400, 500 crit. When I go into battle, even with ao1, i get ignored until enough allys are dead that ALL the enemy can concentrate on me, meanwhile I am struggling to get in a single hit, and when I do, its for 346 or 371, someting pretty useless like that. IMHO, knights should be able to deal more damage. Not as much as a barb, but more than we do right now.

And now we are forced into a 30sec interval where we cant cast trollskin?Well, yeah - barbarians can hit for 1.5k to unbuffed targets with Berserk. So what?
I can't do a shit except for that now with this update, since even attempting to cast anything will break my rythm and bring my DPS down to the basement.

That said, yeah, maybe barbarians got more powerful this patch.
But what did we have to sacrifice for that change? The whole fun of playing the class in the first place.

And to be honest I don't give a shit about being powerful, because, you play a game to have fun - playing a barbarian now is not fun.
Trying to fix the position lags from 1.0.7 while keeping the balance would have made playing a barb fun again.

IMO, 3 classes (1 partly) are now useless from a "having fun" point of view:


Marksman
Barbarian
Knight
Petless hunter

Good job.

[backe]

You forgot support conjurers, Znu. :(

[relu-cri]

My opinion is that Knights = Useless Warriors with shiny armor and lots of hp.

Honestly I feel like a cement block running around doing nothing. Here are my issues:

In war:

Knights need more controlling spells. Plain and simple. I would not mind in the least to not have one attack/damage spell on my spell bar. Unfortunately, do to fact that the Shields tree is (still) worthless, people are leveling their weapon trees to 15 to get passive resist damage (which is broken/less then it should be).

NGD, please, look at the role you want knights to play, whatever that might be, and analyze why we can't do it. Warriors get 2 extra trees on choosing a subclass and one of them isn't worth leveling. This is a HUGE problem.

Superbosses:

I'm sorry, but barbs and marksmen should not be the only ones getting drops. Knights are supposed to be the warrior-version of a conj: higher defenses, less need for heals. So what do Knights, warlocks, and hunters get from super bosses? Nothing.

Also the lack of knight drops is appalling. Evendim's axe, with +6 const SHOULD be a knight weapon. The hammer, being +strength should remain barbarian.

Knights take the longest to level to 50, and when they get there, what reward is there? Nothing. Barbs, mages, and archers get drops. Barbs can use both knight and barb drops. I'm sorry, but if it takes so damn long to get a knight to 50, there should be a weapon or shield or something worth looking forward to that is special for knights.

Work on the drop after you figure out how to make knights useful again. I feel stupid as hell being level 49 and having no role in mind for my gameplay

damn yes!!! u are so right man!! knight is the less funny class ... in war i feel quite useless... bah... and yes yes yes we want some special thing from bosses!!! like an epic shield or something similar... but, only one thing, in syrtis knights dropped, not so often, but it's possible to drop with them.. not as a conju or a barb ... but we can drop xD

[ZericOfGa]

I am frustrated by being a warrior who hits for less dmg than archers. I understand Barbs, who hit harder, but suffer in hps. But, where barbs can hit for 1500+ buffed, I am only hitting between 3-400, 500 crit. When I go into battle, even with ao1, i get ignored until enough allys are dead that ALL the enemy can concentrate on me, meanwhile I am struggling to get in a single hit, and when I do, its for 346 or 371, someting pretty useless like that. IMHO, knights should be able to deal more damage. Not as much as a barb, but more than we do right now.

And now we are forced into a 30sec interval where we cant cast trollskin?

I have not seen a hit of 1500+ from a barb since the update. Closest I have seen to that was a level 5 south cross that did around 1,400. I have no problem with barb damage, it should not be lowered any more then it has been or it will make barbs: knights with no armor and 150-200 more damage. The problem is that the fluid motion is gone from warriors, especially barbs. Also, given their normal hits do higher damage, having a "false swing" with a very slow weapon is incredibly annoying for barbs because they dont see a hit/evade/block/ or resist in the logs.

[Pornstar]

I have seen a lot nerfs on knights, tbh i havent seen any advantage on knights yet. This update isnt exception :/ As chilko said here http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=807485&postcount=1
"One clarification: warriors will throw an attack animation even if they are not really in range in some cases (its like a failed try...) this is intended."

So i'm asking why this patch got real ? This is one of most annoying thing in this update. Players in posts above said already about the problems with spells. So i wonder how didnt you see that on amun and fix it in time, before the patch get applied. You shouldnt patch broken patches!
Well i'm still playing my sucky knight tried many setups but i still cant find any protection in skill trees :/ Isnt knight supposed to be the class with best protection? Nah seems not.
I'm trying to grind barb. When i heard that berserk will lose armor penalty, i thought - great i could grind faster solo. Now - "wtf im weaker than before even with berserk :/

I just want to say that to make this game proper, you have to listen real players, who are playing this shitty game everyday. Not you who never played it! Oh sorry but i'm pissing off :(

[UmarilsStillHere]

You nerfed most defence spells and auras so that war would be faster and more dynamic, now you nerf all attack so that its slower, why? why not make defence better again? Oh ofc all balance must be negative, you cant simply decide the defence nerf was a bad idea and change it back, or increase armour?

No, you go for the one option that not only makes the game slower, but makes the grind even f***ing harder than it already is, its amazing anyone gets a char to 50...

[bois]

I am frustrated by being a warrior who hits for less dmg than archers. I understand Barbs, who hit harder, but suffer in hps. But, where barbs can hit for 1500+ buffed, I am only hitting between 3-400, 500 crit. When I go into battle, even with ao1, i get ignored until enough allys are dead that ALL the enemy can concentrate on me, meanwhile I am struggling to get in a single hit, and when I do, its for 346 or 371, someting pretty useless like that. IMHO, knights should be able to deal more damage. Not as much as a barb, but more than we do right now.

And now we are forced into a 30sec interval where we cant cast trollskin?

I feel your frustration Brother-brian ,but for me if I had a toss up of more damage over more effective blocking , I would take the blocks.
In my adventures as Knight in the war zone, I always felt that it was my duty to protect the mages, offer attack in a support role, trick players into wasting long CD spells on me, soak up damage and tank guards.

We can do this with defence and as such, I feel defences should be the focus of discussions regarding knights.

Yes our damage is low but, with a few set-up tweaks here and there plus the right armour/weapon you can improve your damage. Going with a slightly knarbish setup (example slash : charge (3), Acc swing (4), SC (3) ) I am able to deliver ~690 on a SC. Also 360-460 normals .This is so because I also have several + strength weapons and armour in my inventory. So it is possible to raise attack without sacrificing too much defence points.

In a RvR sense , if you can get either a bless weapon/ bear strength/ barb OWTH you can do some more damage. If I am so blessed and buff myself ,doing 490+ normal damage is not difficult . Problem is that support conjus configured that way are becoming an endangered species and the ones that have it would rather buff the barb than "wasting" it on the knight which probably makes sense. Plus with healing becoming so tricky who knows what configs conjus may have to come up with to be effective.

In summary, if we can block and resist better then the low hits will not matter as much. My fear is that if our damage increases NGD may see it fit to reduce our defences further. Just my feeling on the matter.

Please keep in mind this is in a PvP or RvR sense. The low damage is still a big problem for grinding and the knight may after all still be the slowest and most tedious to level .
Artec.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Blocks seem better in fights vs knights Ive had so far they have all blocked at least a few hits, before they would often block nothing.

[Kyrottimus]

1.0.7: Positioning annoyances and having a hard-time catching archers aside, warrior combat was rapid, exciting, fluid and very fast-paced.

1.0.8: Positioning annoyances are still there. Catching archers isn't so hard if they try to stand and fight. Warrior combat is slow, sloppy, cumbersome, frustrating, and arrhythmic.


That's my assessment with warriors playability between the previous and current versions (and I should have just posted this in the first post but I had a lot to cover and felt it pertinent at the time).

[Freduardo]

Blocks seem better in fights vs knights Ive had so far they have all blocked at least a few hits, before they would often block nothing.

I've tested it more than once, both on amun and after 1.08. With maxed out block chance, it's still the same crap as far as I've noticed.

[Recoil]

1.0.8: Positioning annoyances are still there. Catching archers isn't so hard if they try to stand and fight. Warrior combat is slow, sloppy, cumbersome, frustrating, and arrhythmic

I agree with this. I am mainclass barb and 1.0.8 make me feel like SHIT. Even if (some) hunters and (some) sm mages used to (sometimes) have an upper hand on me in 1.0.7, I didnt feel like this. Now it is just crap.


NGD you better make warriors as they were. Animations, damage, cooldowns. We dont like this. (apart from some knarbs who werent using berserk and were doing 300 normals, anyway).

Also, barrier + pylon with lowered dmg.... bah. You either have no idea about what you are doing, or .... no comments.

[Charly_Metal]

I'll simplify my original post:

The movement of your char, pretty much canceling everything, destroys the flow of combat with all classes.

I have to agree with this. Warriors are really slow in combat.

NGD said that with the damage reduction attack speed would be increased, but so far I didn't noted (at least not in my barb).

And for the record, I have a hunter and a lock too, and the global cooldown of the barb is the slowest, making this class a real slug (not to mention that faster weapons really suffer the damage reduction).

I also noted that the attack animations are out of synchrony with the "impact" animation, which makes harder to tell when you actually hit your opponent.

[chilko]

hello guys,

Some of the first posts of this thread where very interesting as they where a profound analysis on how you feel about the system and what you think are the reasons behind that.

As we said, new problems may arise with this new system and we would only find out about that playing in real conditions.

Overall, after playing for two days and witnessing a lot of encounters in game we feel that we are on the right track but still need to make adjustments and maybe revise some things with the warriors.

if there was something fun about playing a warrior before (as you say) is not something that want/ed to take away

lets try to keep this thread to the level of the first few posts and not make it a +1 i hate the update too thread so we can use this to help us find those things that may improve the game.

[King_Of_Angmar]

I'll simplify my original post:

The movement of your char, pretty much canceling everything, destroys the flow of combat with all classes.

+1 couldn't have said it better myself.

I also really don't understand the added cooldown to trolls skin, was it really so overpowered? :p I already knew many knights who didn't use it since they thought 450 hp wasn't worth it. I used it because I could keep it perma-buffed and with good defense 450 can last a while. Now that I can't just have it on the whole time I'm beginning to think it has lost its use, another skill in vanguard down the drain.

[ZericOfGa]

hello guys,

Some of the first posts of this thread where very interesting as they where a profound analysis on how you feel about the system and what you think are the reasons behind that.

As we said, new problems may arise with this new system and we would only find out about that playing in real conditions.

Overall, after playing for two days and witnessing a lot of encounters in game we feel that we are on the right track but still need to make adjustments and maybe revise some things with the warriors.

if there was something fun about playing a warrior before (as you say) is not something that want/ed to take away

lets try to keep this thread to the level of the first few posts and not make it a +1 i hate the update too thread so we can use this to help us find those things that may improve the game.

Thanks for posting :)

This update, in my opinion, only helped warriors in one way, truly: archers have to stop to shoot, and do less damage. None of the nerfs/improvements done to warriors were beneficial.

I am not a knight who uses troll skin, but I am unsure as to how the nerf helps warriors.

The things that need to be fixed/changed/improved in order to make warriors enjoyable are this:

1. Make movement more fluid, and I know the "false hits" are a planned thing, but seeing my hammer/axe/spear swing and not do anything makes me thing bug, not implemented feature. It is incredibly annoying.



2. The passive resists in the weapon trees are not fully resisting as they should be. The 20% resist does more like 10% resist, which means at level 4, they are almost useless. It seems like those values could easily be reset/changed to work better. This is also crucial because of the shields tree not working, most knights have chosen a resistance setup.



3. Make block work! With buffs I can have a 128 block chance and not block a single hit in an entire fort war. I am not about to lead a group of people into war if I know the chances of me blocking hits on the way there are 1 in 1 million. The server does not seem to be calculating them in any way.


Note: protector does work. At level 5 it is insane. If precise block and the passive block were given the values used in a level 3 Protector, it would be worth using again.



4. Spells like Shield Bash are virtually impossible to cast. If this was given an instant cast it would be useful again. Because it is not a spell that stops you in order to use it, you try to cast and stop for just a second, but the movement cancels it. I think in over 20 attempts I have been able to use it once. I had to stop, stand still, cast it, then move as it casted.



5. Position lag is incredibly high. I saw a something like this today:

<---Wolf facing this way______10 meters_______Barb facing this way ---> hitting him

I can virtually stand inside a person without hitting them at all.

Also, I saw Midou Ban on a wall standing next to an enemy archer, he was standing there doing....nothing. He couldnt attack, and there was no error like "not facing your enemy" or "out of range". This must be fixed for warriors to be enjoyable again.



I am almost disgusted to the point where I want to hang up my knight helmet and find another class. Playing him is boring now because I am a warrior with a role I cannot play due to nerfs and bugs. Please help :(

[Brother-brian]

It is frustrating to wait so long for troll skin to CD. I dont generally go into a battle without it, and waiting for such a long cd keeps my knight out of the fight longer.

Shield bash doesnt seem to cast at all for me either.

Sometimes, I cannot seem to maintain a lock on an enemy in a fort battle. When i click on him, by the time i get into range, he is already somehow de-selected. I have tested this numerous times, sometimes without even trying to hit, and enemy goes de-selected all by itself. Not all the time though.

[Seher]

I also really don't understand the added cooldown to trolls skin, was it really so overpowered? :p

That's one of the best decisions they've made so far, imho. Reason: No perma-buffing, and they reacted with a very small adjustment. :thumb_up:

I already knew many knights who didn't use it since they thought 450 hp wasn't worth it. I used it because I could keep it perma-buffed and with good defense 450 can last a while. Now that I can't just have it on the whole time I'm beginning to think it has lost its use, another skill in vanguard down the drain.

Next step would be to boost the effect a bit (!). Maybe increase it to 600 hp... This is called balance! (Balance <----> Nerfnerfnerfnerf xD)

[gluffs]

Thanks for posting :)
4. Spells like Shield Bash are virtually impossible to cast. If this was given an instant cast it would be useful again. Because it is not a spell that stops you in order to use it, you try to cast and stop for just a second, but the movement cancels it. I think in over 20 attempts I have been able to use it once. I had to stop, stand still, cast it, then move as it casted.


The main problem whit not being able to get shield bash off is that there is
a delay before skills launch after pressing the button. Like it is now it is hard
to even get off a insta skill in combat after a normal hit. So even if shield
bash were instant it would still be very hard to pull off. In war now i am
having a hard time just to get Kick/feint to go off. I feel like a keyboard
abuser when i slam the key like a freaking maniac.


Suggestion For fixing this:

When you klick a spell it cancels normal hit and skill starts directly, no
delays no nothing. Then instants would really be instant and shield bash etc
would go off more smoothly.


This problem is most irritating at fort door where you bang on the door.
When the barbs/locks come out for areas you need to act quickly to
knock/cancel spell. But whit the delays i loose about 1s off time before
anything happens. And 1s is alot when you need to knock or brainpierce.

I hope something will be done about this, because i really love playing my
knight, but the last days after update is more frustration then fun due to the
fact that im about to destroy my keyboard because off the long time it takes
for getting off a skill, and sometimes nothing happens att all.

This delay i have on my knight dont seem to be on my hunter, i use my
hunter alot for grinding and after a normal hit i can launch skills directly
whitout delays. So the same thing should be possible on warriors aswell.

[Znurre]

hello guys,

Some of the first posts of this thread where very interesting as they where a profound analysis on how you feel about the system and what you think are the reasons behind that.

As we said, new problems may arise with this new system and we would only find out about that playing in real conditions.

Overall, after playing for two days and witnessing a lot of encounters in game we feel that we are on the right track but still need to make adjustments and maybe revise some things with the warriors.

if there was something fun about playing a warrior before (as you say) is not something that want/ed to take away

lets try to keep this thread to the level of the first few posts and not make it a +1 i hate the update too thread so we can use this to help us find those things that may improve the game.A movie tells more than 1000 images, so here you go.
Dedicated to you and the balance team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZLQgQagif8

So, what is my proposal to change this situation?
I am not yet sure wether these suggestions should apply for all classes, or only for warriors... but here you go:


Make normal hits count as skills, letting global cooldown also affect them and showcasing when it's possible to cast/hit again using the indicators added in 1.0.8
Make +attackspeed% and weapon speed affect the global cooldown
Make it possible to queue skills for up to 2 seconds and maybe also display this queue somewhere in the UI is possible
When the global cooldown is ready, next skill in the queue will be casted immediately!
No further delays at all. If there is no skill in the queue, a normal hit "skill" will be "casted" instead.
Add an option to disable movement cancelling skill casting
Fix the bug where skills can sometimes not be casted during movement (as seen in the video)
Fix the "phantom hits" (client side only hits)
Allow skills with 0.5 or less casting time (not including +cast speed% bonuses) to be casted during movement.

With these changes, I am sure gameplay for warriors would clearly change to the better.
Feel free to comment.

CORRECTION: In the video, I am only using lvl 4 TFB (Amun config).
Thanks for pointing it out Matt.

[Arafails]

Indeed I could put my thumb on what was bugging me about playing barb since the update, but couldn't work out how to express it. That video is just perfect however.
The slower the weapon, it seems, the more pronounced the effect. I know I should have similar problems on my warlock, but I just hadn't noticed them.... Fast 25 staff have anything to do with that?

[_Enio_]

Indeed I could put my thumb on what was bugging me about playing barb since the update, but couldn't work out how to express it. That video is just perfect however.
The slower the weapon, it seems, the more pronounced the effect. I know I should have similar problems on my warlock, but I just hadn't noticed them.... Fast 25 staff have anything to do with that?

I think it has to to with the different normal hits ranged vs melee. Ranged has to wait before each hit (aiming time)

Melee has a delay after each hit, the normal itself should get out instant, however that seems to be bugged - maybe its connected to phantom hits - delay gets applied there maybe too even when you dont successfully hit?

I fully support the idea of scaling gcd with attackspeed - the new system allows tweaking the scaling values itself. Weapon speed could have different modifiers, +attackspeed gear and spells can get applied on top of that, the scaling itself can be balanced by putting in fixed value + a value that can scale with mentioned factors = gcd.

[Kyrottimus]

A movie tells more than 1000 images, so here you go.
Dedicated to you and the balance team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZLQgQagif8

So, what is my proposal to change this situation?
I am not yet sure wether these suggestions should apply for all classes, or only for warriors... but here you go:


Make normal hits count as skills, letting global cooldown also affect them and showcasing when it's possible to cast/hit again using the indicators added in 1.0.8
Make +attackspeed% and weapon speed affect the global cooldown
Make it possible to queue skills for up to 2 seconds and maybe also display this queue somewhere in the UI is possible
When the global cooldown is ready, next skill in the queue will be casted immediately!
No further delays at all. If there is no skill in the queue, a normal hit "skill" will be "casted" instead.
Add an option to disable movement cancelling skill casting
Fix the bug where skills can sometimes not be casted during movement (as seen in the video)
Fix the "phantom hits" (client side only hits)
Allow skills with 0.5 or less casting time (not including +cast speed% bonuses) to be casted during movement.

With these changes, I am sure gameplay for warriors would clearly change to the better.
Feel free to comment.

CORRECTION: In the video, I am only using lvl 4 TFB (Amun config).
Thanks for pointing it out Matt.


+1

(+1 to gluffs post as well)


Here's a further elaboration on how I see it:

Things that were perfectly fine in1.0.7 for warriors that are now "broken" in 1.0.8:

*Animations: All new warrior animations are lame and they are not in sync with actual attack or sound effects.

*Phantom-swings: Maybe intended, maybe not. I personally think this is a result of the screwed up animations + GCD. Still, VERY annoying and I say get rid of them because with the positioning problems still there, it really makes it way worse and it delays your actual attack timers.

*Transitioning between normals and spells/buffs is WAY too slow and cumbersome

*Spells like Roar, Howl, Shield Bash, etc. are not practical at all to use anymore

*Weapon speed no longer seems to dictate spell-piggybacking after a normal attack

*Movement canceling spells/buffs really throws warrior combat "flow" out the window.

[S_N_I_P_E_R]

(Pre 1.08) I brought a low level fast rapier so that I could buff my barb alot faster as I use a vslow/slow weapon most of the time, in fact I could fully buff in the time it took a fellow barb to cast 2 buffs. Well now due to global CD I can buff as fast regardless of weapon speed, so my already poor barb has wasted gold on a weapon that is no longer worth using :(

[Zas_]

I will just partially quote Kyrottimus to express my feels about archers since 1.0.8, i know this is a Warrior thread but it seems most issues affect all classes.



*Animations: All new archer animations are lame and they are not in sync with actual attack or sound effects.

*Phantom-shots: Maybe intended, maybe not. I personally think this is a result of the screwed up animations + GCD.

*Transitioning between normals and spells/buffs is WAY too slow and cumbersome

*Spells like Repetition shot, ..., are not practical at all to use anymore

*Weapon speed no longer seems to dictate spell-piggybacking after a normal attack

*Movement canceling spells/buffs really throws archer combat "flow" out the window.


In term of balance i find it better, having a warrior on you often ends in archer/mage's death. In term of fun, i think something was lost for all.

[jbhero]

+1 to Everything the others have said above and then some more. The dynamism has been completely knocked off the table. I just loath everytime I stand still, waiting for something to happen on the barb...

I repeat what I have said before, the game is just turn based game now, with no dynamics at all. You hit me, I hit you, you hit me, I hit you...rinse and repeat, until someone dies.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I cant hit ANY moving target with my hammer, only with spear, this was not so pre 1.0.8, either the atk area was reduced of the new positions dont work well in movement.

I also still often see NPC's in the wrong location and need to use other warriors attacking 'air' to guess were it realy is.

[Kyrottimus]

I cant hit ANY moving target with my hammer, only with spear, this was not so pre 1.0.8, either the atk area was reduced of the new positions dont work well in movement.

I also still often see NPC's in the wrong location and need to use other warriors attacking 'air' to guess were it realy is.

I agree. Whatever changed, not only does it, like jbhero said, seem to becoming a turn-based and boring melee system, but positioning is worse than ever before.

I can target a mob or enemy, and while in attack mode run in a straight line through them, only doing "phantom" swings and never once really logging an attack.

Target, circle, phantom swings only. I'm right on top of enemy/mob and all I get are the awkward animations. It's like 1.06 all over again but worse; phantom swings give you that false sense of success and it makes it harder for you to reposition to run around and log an actual hit.

1.0.7's positioning was not perfect, but it was light-years better than how it is in 1.0.8.

[kmdk]

Well wath i can say..is more bad like was ever.I spendet lots of money in this game helpping ngd to make good one.....but now the combat is very dificult ,static ,just all classes stay wait a lots to buff or cast speels,they said he will be dinamic....duno how...if you move all is screwed.Maybe programers have a hrad work but this version distroy all classes...
I dont care about anothers nerfs....only barbs hit now like knights .and position bug is more bad...anymation hit.but duno what he doit..nothing in log...not evade..nothing
Allrady lots of players leaved this game .....becamed to boring...i know ngd don't want players want don't expand money,but lots of premium players leaved...i thinked to level all my chars..but no point just i can play anymore.al is luck n this game...nothing caculated...stats of wepons=0 i make some dmg with one normal sword for lvl 48 sometimes more like satraco's one.so wy should i buy lucky boxes if status=0 ?
Well if this game continue like that will leave more..
Btw i don't care about nerfs,premium tec...the new combat system make the game boring....one game of this type must be more fast like Unreal,Quake 3 to be atractive not to be more slow...take one coofe and get back to see if you buffed.
Will be nice to have nice sounds like Quake 3,humiliation etc.....
Anyway wariors just run around now in hope they can hit somethig.....this position bug or new system is very bad.
I hope i the future update to fix that ..if not are enaught games to play on internet .competition is hard.

[Kyrottimus]

The implications of this discussion have me motivated to start a new thread which moves beyond the impact on warriors alone, but all classes.

I shall make it here in General discussion and add a poll.