Discussion about Class/Server/Realm Balance

[Klutu]

Id like to get some input from NGD and Fellow players on ideas how to Fix and Solve overall "Balance"

I know NGD is busy with fixing some parts of the new Engine and doing Character Remodeling but there must be some ideas on solving and improving Balance. imo only way to actually solve the issue is to get proper feedback on players in Regnum who have full knowledge of there class/classess


@ NGD im not sure how you guys work but would it be possible to maybe put one or two people on "balance" just to slowly progress with it?


Cheers

[Winds]

For me the most critical balance issue is the problem with realm numbers. It can be a pain for the underdog realms, but it ain't fun for the overpopulated ones either. There are few ways that can be tried to solve the issue.

1. Bonus for the lower populated realms...we've had these for quite a while, but the situation doesn't seem to be getting much better, perhaps even worse. Some people most likely intentionally choose the realm with no bonus to be able to play on the strong side.

2. Blocking new users entering some realms. This might work initially, but i think it will cause more problems leaving the blocked realms with no users on some lvls etc. Also the overpopulated realm might have issues with low numbers during some time frames, so blocking all new users would make these even more worse.

3. Special advantages to the lower populated realm. These could be seen as the guard captains at realm gate, but could be something users could use. Like catapults, siege machines, realm heroes/monsters that the realm in trouble could get at their disposal, if there's a big population imbalance.

4. Realm transfers. Allowing to transfering your existing characters to realms suffering from lower population, would give those looking for new challenges a way to help, without the need off going through the painfull grinding process and leaving their old characters. The problem with this might be that the more active and experienced users would switch realms leaving their original realm full of "noobs" and thus put them in disadvantage.

5. Part time realm switching. Basically the same as above, but only for a rather short time. This way users could use their own consideration, when help is needed and who needs it. This wouldn't hurt realm balances as the changes wouldn't be permanent and could be used to solve imbalances during particular timezones and not general population, which can differ a lot during different times of day.

My personal favourite is are the last 3 in particular the 5th. Being able to play with our enemies and against your usual allies would bring variety to the game. People would get to know persons from other realms better and hopefully thus reduce the hate against them. After all we all play the same game...we just happened to pick different sides.

Hopefully the ways I mentioned are understandable as I didn't explain them that much. There might be other better ways, my point just is that something else then the bonuses should be given a try. Lately on horus it's been more likely to run into other syrtis members then to players from the realm you are hunting in. Fort wars are closer to save camping then fighting at the fort. They could have some potential, if syrtis would wage war on two fronts, but usually the zerg tends to stick together even if some try to suggest otherwise.

[Mattdoesrock]

Those are some nice ideas Winds.

However, I'm not so keen on the tempory realm transfers. Here's an example. Syrtis are at Aggers.. or Samal.. Or Trelle.. or whatever, which ever fort tickles their pickle for zerging; someone from the realm who is not involved int he fight might think, "Ok, greens are at Samal... Who cares?" So transfers there. Then a green who had gone to samal might think, "poor reds, I'll transfer for an hour to help them out." Can you think of the consequences? People in their home realm may turn against them. Also, if you are going to go zerg a fort, why would you just transfer over to help the over side? You know? Anyway, just my thoughts.

Whereas permanent realm transfers sound like a good idea to me. However - they should cost xim. To further help the realm balance situation, the transfers should all cost different amounts. For example, to transfer to Syrtis (the most overpopulated realm) it may cost... 25k xim. But to transfer to Ignis - a low populated realm, it maybe cost... 5k xim. The numbers are made up, but you get my idea. This would hopefully stop palyers from the low population realm all just upping and leaving for the high pop. realm, therefore screwing their ex. realm mates. It may also encourage people to transfer in the.. "right" direction; e.g. High pop. to a low pop.

I'm really not a fan of blocking users from entering a realm, this just isn't the way to go. People need to want to join the under dog realm, not always because it is the under dog, but because of the bonuses they may be granted for doing so - that AND the fact that NGD really need to look into what makes Syrtis the most appealing realm. Colours? Races? Stats? Items? Landscape? Etc. etc. They need to do their homework and come up with some nice solutions.

However it then becomes a problem of servers. For example, at the moment, Alsius is pretty fucked when it comes to numbers most of the time - On horus. On RA, that used to be the case, but I'd say that in general, realm balance is really good at the moment... I can't speak for the german servers or Tyr, I have no experience of them. So it's kind of a dilema where NGD need to go through a massive balancing phase, loads of work for what? Just Horus? RA and other server players may not be happy for such a lot of work being done for pretty much just one server..

---

Then there is spell balance (!) Currently I think Hunters have it waaaaaaaaaaaay too easy. They can have a pretty uber setup, with little or no sacrifice - unlike nearly every other class. I think this is mainly to do with spell positions and pets - not necessarily spells themselves. I think Confuse should be moved to #17 in tricks for a start. As to the spell itself, flame if you want, but I don't think it's awfully bad ON IT'S OWN. It's when it's combined with DS, a 400 dmg pet, etc. etc. That it gets way over the top.

Then next up is pets. Ho ho ho, pets. What bastards they are these days. There have been loads of really great suggestions for a) fixing pets and b) improving them. These include pet powers, no more trolls, more med - fast speed pets, more variety etc. etc. Like I said, loads of good ideas.

But the real problem is at the moment is that pets are bugged. They can move and hit at the same time - something warriors cannot do, and they move at the same speed as the target, meaning if you target someone using a load of speed buffs, you'll see your pet ZOOM off towards them. This is 10000% NOT. RIGHT. In my opinion, a pet should movee at the same speed as a hunter.

Also camo, recently Wudy make a nice suggestion that hunters should be "stealth, not the invisable man." if a hunter has a massive troll - he shouldn't be able to camo as easily, as say a petless hunter, who only has to camo himself. Can you not see the logic? I think that camo should be reduced to... Maybe 2.5, 3 seconds (?) for a LONE HUNTER, and maybe 4 - 5 seconds depending on the pet size, for a pet hunter? I don't know, just an idea. But thinking about it, maybe not a good idea; a hunter could just dismiss their pet while running away, and camo really quick to get away... Anyway, just a thought.

Also Warlocks... Pretty powerful at the moment... They used to be balanced, you could cancel their spells by walking through them, and they didn't have CS items, but now both of these have gone, and Warlocks are top dog. I think specifically the problem that needs to be addressed is the CS problem. Seeing locks walking around with 70%+ cast speed is just stupid. How many times have you been fucked by an insta-cast terror? Alot mroe than once I'm guessing. It's just way too powerful.. But what can be done? Pretty much nothing. Alot of people played money for these so.. I guess we're bloody stuck with them... Which sucks. :/


To finish: We've had out new shiney eye candy, we now need real balance, both with RvR, realm balance, PvP balance, class balance, race balance and spell balance.

[Klutu]

i do like the idea of adding Realm Transfers and costing more ximerm for the overpopulated realm

though i think there should be a limit of one realm transfer scroll every 6 monthes or something like that. I wouldnt like people switching realms for a day and hopping back

[Saltor]

Some problems that leap to mind with Realm transfers is this:

Cherry picking gear from all realms, breaking balance further. This is an even bigger issue if xim is required ... massive premium advantage here!
Will clan founders be barred, or will their clans be dissolved if they transfer?
Mixing races, another balance breaker ... any Barbarian that can afford it will start a Dwarf and move it to their realm of choice.

I believe the first step to take is to balance the six classes. Weaken mages further at point blank range, give knights the ability to stop people running through them, and re-work hunters in a few areas (pets, speed, etc).

Just giving knights a spell or ability that blocks characters from moving through them will completely change how we play in the WZ. Lower levels will actually be of value as part of a shield wall, formations will start to happen, bridge fights will become more common, losing a fort door will not automaticly mean the fort is lost, etc.

[e30G]

I proposed a similar idea to Winds proposed for realm imbalance but would probably eliminate the problems Matt says:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=586770&postcount=104

[Godot]

I love what I'm seeing in this thread.
+1 to you guys

Here's the only thing I got to offer up.
Along the lines of enticements: Maybe a non transferable piece of gear
(armor/wep) of lvl 45 or 50 attained during signup, nothing uber(dont
want to cause worse imbalance down the road) ,just a nice
epic or magical piece that cant be traded/sold/given.(like a quest item)
it would also give the
new recruit an incentive to grind up to wz lvl and stick with the game.
this could be applied to any server for any realm thats suffering population
problems.

[Winds]

Thank you for the constructive post Matt. Surely the ideas I came up with all have their problems my intention was just to list different alternatives, that we have and not go through their pros and cons.
Whereas permanent realm transfers sound like a good idea to me. However - they should cost xim. To further help the realm balance situation, the transfers should all cost different amounts. For example, to transfer to Syrtis (the most overpopulated realm) it may cost... 25k xim. But to transfer to Ignis - a low populated realm, it maybe cost... 5k xim.
When I originally suggested realm transfers some 4 months ago, I also though they should cost xim. However I've started to think, that it's not good to have them premium, as that would lead to the most best equipped and active players hopping realms. This could possibly lead to a different kind of imbalance not dealing with numbers, but with items and skill differences. Even with free transfers it's more likely for the active ones to change so whether it's premium or not the problems might be similar. Oh and whether it cost xim or is free I don't think transfer towards a more/most populated realm should be allowed. Surely this isn't in away fair to the lower populated realms to not have same choices, but this is a tool to solve realm imbalances not increase them. You can always change realm by the old way of starting over...

Why do I think active and experienced players would change instead of a more balanced blend of players? Firstly lower lvls don't have much war experience and can leave boring battles to go continue grinding. They usually aren't that good in using their skills yet, so they might have fun and enough challenge in battles, where you outnumber the opponent a lot. Long time veteran players on the other hand have been through enough massacres and gotten bored to them, so they need more challenge and switching to an lower populated realm is likely to bring them that. This is the key reason why I'm not that fond of permanent/very long time transfers and think that shorter periods might be better.

Those are some nice ideas Winds.

However, I'm not so keen on the tempory realm transfers. Here's an example. Syrtis are at Aggers.. or Samal.. Or Trelle.. or whatever, which ever fort tickles their pickle for zerging; someone from the realm who is not involved int he fight might think, "Ok, greens are at Samal... Who cares?" So transfers there. Then a green who had gone to samal might think, "poor reds, I'll transfer for an hour to help them out." Can you think of the consequences? People in their home realm may turn against them. Also, if you are going to go zerg a fort, why would you just transfer over to help the over side? You know? Anyway, just my thoughts.Why wouldn't I want to change realm after taking aggers for example? I personally don't go to take an enemy fort to piss them off or massacre them over and over I again. I go there hoping for a good fairly even battle. If that doesn't happen, I might as well help the realm in need to make the battle more even. Let's take an example that has happened several times.

I go with a small crew to get some action during the dead hours of horus. We take a fort with just 4-6, but by the time the enemy gets even that much more syrtis starts trickling in. (Ofcourse they come after all there's close to no action, so they hope this fort capture will start some war.) Thus the enemy can't at any point oppose a real threath and it ends up in the usually 20 vs 5, that nobody enjoys. At this point I usually get bored at the fort hoping the save campers do some mistake and die, so we could have a bit fairer fight. Some times I try suggesting splitting half of the force to the other opposing realm, but for an reason or other it get no support or then all of the syrtis crew go. Then the same repeats at the other realm. Now ofcourse I can leave the fort fight and go wonder on my own trying to find enemies, but this is what I do all day anyway so some change would be nice. After all wandering alone on a barb or warlock most commonly leads to getting ganked by 2 or more enemies sending you back at save with not so fun experience. (Sure I could play my hunter, but I don't want to play him always.)

So in a situation like this why wouldn't I switch realm and try kicking out the syrtis? In the end I just came looking for a good fort fight, not really caring who's by my side. Heck yesterday at aggers we though we should ask NGD for a inner realm fort, so syrtis could fight themselves and not bother with other realms, who either don't want to fight us or can't put up a decent fight.

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Regarding my first post we have few means to achieve realm balance. We can try to force or encourage users to balance the situation or we can aid them be game mechanics. The second option is whom we target with the changes. We can target new comers or those all ready in game.

Things like making one realm more attractive, giving them bonuses like the xp bonus we have or blocking some realm from new players target those coming to the game. This might not lead to the desirad effect, because new comers don't understand/know what the game is about or how bad the imbalance is. Therefore I think whatever NGD chooses to do to help should target the players, that are all ready in game. They know what the game is like and can do more educated choices based on their knowledge.

Secondly I don't think forcing is an option. NGD should try to encourage the players to voluntarily balance the situation by encouraging them and providing them means to do so. Deleting your existing chars and starting from scratch isn't exactly encouraging. (Sure you can start a new account, but when strictly obeing NGD's rules that's not allowed and even then you start from scratch.)

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I came up with one more option to create realm balance. All users could have alternative realm characters, that would be available only, if the realm is underpopulated during the time you are on your character selection screen. I'll give an imaginary example: I play in syrtis mainly and have a Half Elf barb of lvl 40. Now I go to my character selection screen and for the moment alsius is vastly under populated. I'd have a notification about that and the game would allow me to play an 40lvl barbarian dwarf. All the xp, rp, items I gain while playing that would be available on the main Half elf after I log in next time and alsius isn't underpopulated.

So you would always have the option to play in your original realm, but if some realm is vastly under populated you could join them for this session. Basically this is the idea I had for temporary realm changes. They would be available only when there is need. These temporarily in a realm should be marked some how and perhaps not be able to trade with others in the realm they are helping. Also when logging into a different realm you should probably start from some particular place, not where you logged off last time.

Ps. Sorry for the extremely long posts...

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I came up with one more option to create realm balance. All users could have alternative realm characters, that would be available only, if the realm is underpopulated during the time you are on your character selection screen. I'll give an imaginary example: I play in syrtis mainly and have a Half Elf barb of lvl 40. Now I go to my character selection screen and for the moment alsius is vastly under populated. I'd have a notification about that and the game would allow me to play an 40lvl barbarian dwarf. All the xp, rp, items I gain while playing that would be available on the main Half elf after I log in next time and alsius isn't underpopulated.

So you would always have the option to play in your original realm, but if some realm is vastly under populated you could join them for this session. Basically this is the idea I had for temporary realm changes. They would be available only when there is need. These temporarily in a realm should be marked some how and perhaps not be able to trade with others in the realm they are helping. Also when logging into a different realm you should probably start from some particular place, not where you logged off last time.

Ps. Sorry for the extremely long posts...
this, combined with gold/item rewards for war would be a great solution, like, I would be able to play my warlock or barbarian or conjurer or whichever class I have in alsius as an alsirian race if the alsius realm is underpopulated. But only temporarily. And allowing a temporary name for the alsirian/ignis char because I can see a problem with some players having hard feelings for someone playing anohter realm for a few days or hours.

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for server population generally I think that grinding time reduced, the game having more rvr possibilities and just overall improvements around the core aspect of the game (rvr) will higher the population rate.

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for class balance, this list is long

first of all if an offensive power(all levels) or buffs that you gain from 15 and upwards should go into cooldown when canceled by a spell. In other words, buffs from 1-13

Items needs a nerf and being more available to everyone (it will still need a nerf concering instaterror warlocks)

for warlocks:
sultars terror, range 30

hunters, need a complete revamp, this class is out of balance, totally, it's like a lion placed in one of the forests of denmark (our most dangerous animal is a fox) They need to be fun to play not only for the player but also the ones they are fighting against

confuse is just crying for a nerf like babies crying for milk
it needs some new possibilities concerning war.

marksmen needs stratpos modificated and something to make up for it

warriors generally need some way of having more fun at war so it's not such a ranged battle

conjurer mainly needs what I said in my suggestion thread of altering conjurers

a lot of things at once but it'll bring more balance and fun into the game

for balancing saying it should always be negative or positive will always be at fault, there should be a middle path because mobs, doors, npcs are relative to our characters powers, if balance is always negative we'll need to zerg guards and if balance is always positive our farts would kill them. Basically it means adjusting to whatever it needs, nerf, modification or improvement

[Saltor]

The idea of having an option to play a temporary character in an under populated realm is interesting, however allowing any equipment that's realm specific to migrate between realms is not good for balance.

As it's played now, I find the RvR side of things repetitive and pointless. There are no goals short of invasion except "take a fort and farm RPs". There are many suggestions on these forums on revamping the WZ and Chilko has stated they're looking at it. The only course we have at this point is hope NGD gives the WZ some attention soon and help make it work.

Class balance is something that needs attention before anything else, since that determines how the game is played at a very basic level. Making each class have strengths and weaknesses that are roughly equal and consistant with their concepts is of primary importance.

[Domino_]

1) Remove Rings of lightning or make them available for everyone

2) Make marksmen playable again...

[Klutu]

Simply! give all realms every amulet/ring available just put different Elements and Names

Give a lvl 50 weapon for each realm

Satacro - Sword

Aysor - Hammer

Kronotarian - Spear

Balance the Epic Drops Thorkul/Evendim/Daen Rha

maybe throw some more bosses that drop class items for lvl 50's to balance the Ximerm Boxes vs F2p players?

[Godot]

I missed how we got from class/server/realm balance to
bitching about insignificant items.....that are totally off topic.
time to close before this gets out of hand.
sad tho, it started off so good.

[Klutu]

I missed how we got from class/server/realm balance to
bitching about insignificant items.....that are totally off topic.
time to close before this gets out of hand.
sad tho, it started off so good.

Theres no Bitching read the title of the topic "Realm Balance" isn't just about numbers it's about items and such which are available to the realm, Quests Landscape and things like that

[Godot]

right on K but quest items dont make a diff in balance.
how many times you pwn me ? and I got 2 ring of lightning.
just sayin.

that stuff isnt that important compared to the big issues
that were introduced in the start of this thread. I really liked
that you started this one and the responses you got right up
to the ring of lightning thing. they just aint that important or we'd have
a zerg in Ignis of ppl wanting to play with them.

[Yttrium]

Temporary realm transfers could work, but I'd add a few more restrictions:

1. You cannot trade.
2. You cannot talk (you're now from some other land across the seas with another language.)
3. Your name is changed to something generic and not chosen by the player.
4. Your body is completely cloaked -- people shouldn't be able to guess your identity by your gear.
5. You must offer your services to the other realm and someone there must accept you. Maybe at the character selection screen, you choose what realm to aid and your class and level shows up on a Mercenaries tab under community that people can select. If no one recruits you, you can either wait or go back to your realm. If a realm doesn't want foreigners to help, they shouldn't be able to. Whoever recruited you can also dismiss you.

[Henri_Freundlich]

Give a lvl 50 weapon for each realm

Satacro - Sword

Aysor - Hammer

Kronotarian - Spear


Those items are heavily biased towards the Warrior class, since Mages and Archers (obviously) can't equip them.

Mages should get Mage drops, Archers should get Archer drops. With, say, a 10% chance of getting another class drops.

Many more inconsistencies in this thread by 2-3 people... Can't be bothered to point all of them out