Solution to Confuse without Nerfs (everyones happy!) [Archive]

DemonMonger

01-27-2010, 09:18 PM

Swap positions of BURST OF WIND with CONFUSE.
This way only marksmen get confuse and everyone gets burst of wind.

Deal?

I think Niclam Surakor Chilkor Ponter Kailer and others will agree on this. No nerf needed this way.

Mattdoesrock

01-27-2010, 09:19 PM

No deal.

Give it Knights instead (god knows they need at least one decent spell) . A spell like this is just too deadly at range.

DemonMonger

01-27-2010, 09:20 PM

No deal.

Give it Knights instead (god knows they need at least one decent spell) . A spell like this is just too deadly at range.

This is not about knights... I know that the skill would benefit them as well...
Shield bash kick backbreaker combo is deadly as is...

Kasp1

01-27-2010, 09:24 PM

Actually it's only 25 range. No conjurer would hide if I could confuse in my full range, that would be funny. :D

Edit: deal! hunters would get a real dizzy for warlocks

Mattdoesrock

01-27-2010, 09:29 PM

This is not about knights... I know that the skill would benefit them as well...

Then... Give it to them? Hunters are uber enough, and Marks aren't so bad. Unlike Knights.

Shield bash

Spoken truely like someone who does not play a Knight. :thumb_up:

Shield bash is extremely hard to use (bugged?) as it takes forever to start casting - far longer than any other; not including its cast time.

backbreaker

Just making spells up now are we? :wish:

And no, that "combo" it not deadly. This is a knight we're talking about.

Anpu

01-27-2010, 09:29 PM

What is actually improvement there?
Giving to all archers power to dizzy conjurer so he cannot cast anything, instead not just being able to heal? Spell that passes their only defense, DI?

I m strongly against this. :thumb_down:

VandaMan

01-27-2010, 10:16 PM

Shield bash is extremely hard to use (bugged?) as it takes forever to start casting - far longer than any other; not including its cast time.

The only ways I've ever seen a knight land shield bash on me was with an immobilize, or an extremely well timed (lucky?) cast following a knock.

Dupa_z_Zasady

01-27-2010, 10:51 PM

This is not about knights... I know that the skill would benefit them as well...
Shield bash kick backbreaker combo is deadly as is...

Shield bash? What do you want to prove now, that you have no idea about playing knights? With 0,5 ct shield bash is next to useless now.

Saltor

01-27-2010, 11:44 PM

How did this get to be about how bad knights are? Back on topic folks!

Klutu

01-27-2010, 11:51 PM

Hunters don't need Confuse

I don't want Hunters getting BoW makes them a even bigger pain in the ass against conjs since BoW goes Past DI..

put Confuse on 5 --> 15 seconds or give it to Knights & Replace Confuse on the Tricks Tree with a 100% damage spell

DemonMonger

01-28-2010, 12:22 AM

Then... Give it to them? Hunters are uber enough, and Marks aren't so bad. Unlike Knights.

Spoken truely like someone who does not play a Knight. :thumb_up:

Shield bash is extremely hard to use (bugged?) as it takes forever to start casting - far longer than any other; not including its cast time.

Just making spells up now are we? :wish:

And no, that "combo" it not deadly. This is a knight we're talking about.
You have successfully derailed my topic by adding knight factor that did not exist.. This poll was not intended for knights so your points are not valid here. I have always advocated to improve knights since the dawn of Night Twix, and will continue to hope that knights are improved in the future. But please, consider the question at hand and not a thought that cannot be answered by this poll.

All the knight skills should be instant cast that are within weapon range. Backslam = backbreaker to me its all the same...

I had a change of heart... if hunters had a true dizzy skill they would be unstoppable.... no attack skills or run away skills....

<delete poll>

Dupa_z_Zasady

01-28-2010, 09:52 AM

I had a change of heart...

I kindly ask you to use brain not heart before posting.

Zixmund

01-28-2010, 10:04 AM

Errr what is the problem with confuse ? It maybe pwns in some way on 1vs1, but this is a RvR game isn it ?

Vroek

01-28-2010, 11:11 AM

Errr what is the problem with confuse ? It maybe pwns in some way on 1vs1, but this is a RvR game isn it ?

RvR balance would be that,
Six hunters wouldnt have much of a chance against six opponents (one of each class).
I can almost guarantee that 6 hunters will beat the 'balanced' group 9 times out of 10.

It may be that six warjurers or warlocks also would beat six opponents (one of each class).
But six warjurers, can not force a confrontation due to other limitations.

Kratos_Aurion

01-28-2010, 12:37 PM

6 hunters should be able to beat 6 opponents b/c that is 1 vs 1 pvp, what hunters were born for. and wth would u make it marks only, that doesnt make everyone happy, but you would have to read all of these posts to know that...
i mainly do 1 vs 1 pvp in wz on my 50 hunter, and when i go against a 50 marks, whether i have confuse or not (they usually already have some buffs up), the majority of the time, i'll die, from a fast short bow that hits abnormally hard

having confuse, in a tree, that most marks have leveled up anyway, would make it an even more spammed spell, all marks would have it

though for hunters, we have to get rid of some in pets, evasion, or tracking to make room for confuse; which is done often, but not by all

new title: Solution to confuse without nerfs: spamming

Jeeposnl

01-28-2010, 01:38 PM

6i mainly do 1 vs 1 pvp in wz on my 50 hunter, and when i go against a 50 marks, whether i have confuse or not (they usually already have some buffs up), the majority of the time, i'll die, from a fast short bow that hits abnormally hard

I so agree with that:thumb_up: This idea is not a sollution, to me it's just a way to make a marksman more powerful.

NotScias

01-28-2010, 01:38 PM

Jeeposnl

01-28-2010, 01:54 PM

Very Very Very Very bad idea...

Hunters with Burst of Wind would be even more OP against locks and warjus (They already have a anti-mage and god-mode spell known as "sotw", it's enough...)

I know nerves aren't always the solution but here it's the only one solution :
Confuse NEEDS to be nerfed because it's simply OverPowered...
Like SM was OP, then it has been nerfed, and almost everyone was happy about this...

Sorry but some things needs to be nerfed in a game... You can't ignore or avoid that...

Regards,

lol, at first I'd like to say that I think it is funny that your signature says you're the worst conjurer ever xD, which explains you want to Nerf confuse.

2nd I think that confuse is more a defence spell against conjurers than a attack spell. Conjurers have so much knock downs that I simply can't even destroy their barrier when getting all those stuns one after another.

Gourmandine

01-28-2010, 02:16 PM

6 hunters should be able to beat 6 opponents b/c that is 1 vs 1 pvp, what hunters were born for.
It seems NGD didn't make hunters in this way :
- Hunter never meant assassins, they are not meant to hunt other players. They are called hunters because they have special tracking skills and can hunt and tame creatures.
Sorry for this bad argument (people should be free to play it the way they want) but the same is always used against conjurers.

Conjurers have so much knock downs that I simply can't even destroy their barrier when getting all those stuns one after another.

Knock down they can't cast under confuse.

Maybe switch confuse with caltrop would be better. Caltrop is more a team spell and it cost a lot of mana so giving it for a level 15 tricks setup won't help hunters for "assassin game style".

VandaMan

01-28-2010, 02:17 PM

I think that confuse is more a defence spell against conjurers than a attack spell. Conjurers have so much knock downs that I simply can't even destroy their barrier when getting all those stuns one after another.

The only knock down that conjurers have is will domain.

Gabburtjuh

01-28-2010, 03:21 PM

yes, but he means knock down in the way of immo/knock/cannot attack, so conjs have 3, beetles, will domain and ivy, u can say hunter still attacks when u use ivy, but when u use will domain and beetles first, and then ivy u can't run away by the time u have low hp left.

DemonMonger

01-28-2010, 03:35 PM

The only reason I changed my mind about this is because with burst of wind you cant cast any skills attack or defensive. Confuse is fine rvr 100%

Some have suggested confuse works like head of the pack longer duration with more people around you.

I will add this... let confuse last longer on the enemy depending on how many enemies are near him!

Vroek

01-28-2010, 05:03 PM

let confuse last longer on the enemy depending on how many enemies are near him!

enemies?
shouldnt it be allies?

UmarilsStillHere

01-28-2010, 05:28 PM

No deal.

Give it Knights instead (god knows they need at least one decent spell) . A spell like this is just too deadly at range.

This,

I dont think its not exactly offtopic since your topic is 'Solution to Confuse without Nerfs (everyones happy!)' no where in that topic do you say 'but only my way' if people want to add in their own ideas and reasons that they disagree with your own suggestion then they can.

Confuse would be more balanced at range 0 on a knight, (player would need to get near conju first / Players have more chance to keep a knight away from their conjus than the do an archer under Sotw, many times I have seen archers run into a zerg under sotw confuse a conju and then get out alive.

monktbd

01-28-2010, 05:37 PM

enemies?
shouldnt it be allies?

Well he still wants to win 1 vs 3 scenarios xD

DemonMonger

01-28-2010, 05:42 PM

enemies?
shouldnt it be allies?

no it should last longer when you cast it in a group of enemies... like a reverse head of the pack...

head of pack = bonus for your own realm allies near u
confusion = bonus duration on target (more duration with more of targets realm near)

This will force it to be a war skill...

DemonMonger

01-28-2010, 05:43 PM

Well he still wants to win 1 vs 3 scenarios xD

I still win 1vs3 scenarios man.. without confuse or pet.... and with gcd...

nothing will change for me .... since im pure attack...

monktbd

01-28-2010, 06:18 PM

I still win 1vs3 scenarios man.. without confuse or pet.... and with gcd...
.

I know that you dont use confuse and pets dmc :)
I was just kidding.
Well a true RvR situation involves both allies and enemies so I would assume that working only with the number of enemies would make 1 vs 3 easier (unless the duration will not be longer than it is currently ofc).

Generally I think the idea of having duration dependent on ppl around is a good one.

Vroek

01-28-2010, 09:25 PM

no it should last longer when you cast it in a group of enemies... like a reverse head of the pack...

head of pack = bonus for your own realm allies near u
confusion = bonus duration on target (more duration with more of targets realm near)

This will force it to be a war skill...

Ok i misunderstood you. I meant the same thing but reversed, as it is debuff i thought it be better if its based on the one that actually is effected and not the caster of said spell.

DemonMonger

01-29-2010, 03:32 AM

Ok i misunderstood you. I meant the same thing but reversed, as it is debuff i thought it be better if its based on the one that actually is effected and not the caster of said spell.

it's ok <3
This forum is full of misunderstood messages and twisted truths :)

Nils_Dacke

03-20-2010, 03:06 PM

Confuse is not a problem, hence no need for a "solution".

Bardar

03-21-2010, 04:42 AM

Confuse is a problem - its much to over powered accompanied with a hunter in camo.

IMO, it should be given to the knight as a range 0 power. The only nerf to it then is the range reduction, and its impossible for a hunter to uncamo on the unwary and use it.

Even though balance should be prioritized with RvR, there still needs to be thought into PvP...

Nils_Dacke

03-23-2010, 09:04 PM

Confuse is a problem - its much to over powered accompanied with a hunter in camo.

First of all, confuse is not a skill specific for hunters. It is a general archer skill. Arguments against confuse based entirely on how it can be used by hunters, are non-sequitur.

The problem above is camoflauge, a failsafe skill. There are no specific, intentional, counter measures for it. (I haven't seen non-targeted areas disclose a hunter or pet in a long time now. I suspect they put the plug on that last resort too.) IMO, there should either or both be a minimum radius for camo to work and/or a specific area skill for disclosing camoflauged hunters within a larger radius. No skill should be failsafe. Failsafe skills easily becomes 'I win!'-buttons that any idiot with a personality disorder can press while wantonly playing with dolls in the computer.

Confuse is not failsafe. It will be deined if the target has DI (a failsafe skill) or be removed by dispel/mass dispel (failsafe at lvl5).

Gabburtjuh

03-24-2010, 09:31 AM

I want to know what is failsafe in your opinion, all those def buffs etc for marks/knight/barb are only to be removed by ms, and lvl 5 has 50% chance, but works 1 out of 10 at most ppl. And camo is (most) usefull for PvP, but that is what hunter is designed for, to be the best PvP class in wz(in arena they dont have enough space to keep distance), if they just use their skills for it. Ever saw a hunter make the differance in a 20v20 fight on a bridge? I didnt at least, then the other classes come to show their powers, especially lock with their so favoured sultar, or warriors that can fight nose to nose then, or marks with their area+high dmg spells.

_Enio_

03-24-2010, 12:16 PM

marks with their area+high dmg spells.

lol

10char..

Freduardo

03-24-2010, 12:33 PM

Karl makes a valid point.

From what I can see. Many times NGD has changed (a.k.a. nerfed) a skill without looking at the bigger picture. More often than not leading to just another imbalance.

Everyone screams bloody murder about confuse, because it is an OP tool in the hands of a camo+ambush+confuse+bestial troll-tard. The real problem is that that whole combination is OP. Confuse still is a valid tool for (petless / more team-based) hunters and marksman.

Then again, I could agree with giving it to knights on the condition that the replacement spell is useful for marks (they have suffered enough) and hunters.

Gourmandine

03-24-2010, 02:04 PM

I think the best solution is to make confuse the lvl 19 spell in tricks, distraction shot the lvl 15 and caltrop the lvl 17 one.
Petless, team based players could still have it.

Ever saw a hunter make the differance in a 20v20 fight on a bridge?
No player makes the difference alone, you always need your buddies to make the good things/decision.
Camo and cast the good spell on the good target helps a lot your team. (Distract/stun a lock just before he casts sultar for example).
When a hunter use stalker on his warlocks buddies at a bridge just before enemies to come, who made the difference when their whole army is destroyed thanks to that?

Mattdoesrock

03-24-2010, 05:26 PM

No player makes the difference alone, you always need your buddies to make the good things/decision.

I beg to differ, the difference between 0 conju's and 1 conju, especially a good conju, is incredible.

Gourmandine

03-24-2010, 05:47 PM

I beg to differ, the difference between 0 conju's and 1 conju, especially a good conju, is incredible.
A good conju can't show his talent well with a bad players army.

Pimousse

03-24-2010, 07:13 PM

The difference betwenn 0 conju and 1 ..... depend if there is 1 ennemi hunter or 0 with confuse ;)

e30G

03-25-2010, 03:39 AM

I beg to differ, the difference between 0 conju's and 1 conju, especially a good conju, is incredible.

Nah it does not matter. You need at least 2 competent Conjurers to make an impact if there is at least 1 archer around skilled with Confuse.

It's funny that this is the only class that not only needs to rely on allies to function in war, but it also needs at least 1 more of the same class to actually do the work it was intended to do. All other classes can function in an army as the lone member of that class.