Confused about mage armor

[simons_pl]

Hi there!

Today I've made some experiment with mage/warlock armor and results I had confused me a bit. The armor gear I've used to this experiment was:

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4961/screenshot2010060809214.jpg
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2323/screenshot2010060809215.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2323/screenshot2010060809215.jpg

Total armor points with that set was 438 - http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3535/screenshot2010060809211.jpg

I went to OC to check damages in fight with Ancient Sabertooth - normal hits were about 158-168 dmg per hit (dunno for sure, but they probably do the blunt damage - that tunic as we can see has Good rate for that type of damage).
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7391/screenshot2010060809210.jpg

In next step I've went back to my old, 38 level Dark Arch Mage tunic, which has theoretically lower armor, but the same Good rate for blunt damage:
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/8352/screenshot2010060809223.jpg

With that tunic, my total armor points grown up to 463 - http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4407/screenshot2010060809224.jpg

Many people say, that armor points in character window are bugged and doesn't show the real armor points. Ok, so I've decide to test in on the same Ancient Sabertooth. Here are results:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/8352/screenshot2010060809223.jpg - normal hits were about 128-144 dmg per hit (much lower than with 50 level tunic).

Some people would say, that this 38 level tunic has +5 const bonus, so this is probably why that tunic has better armor. But it's not true - I have the same special Dark Arch Mage tunic, but with +3% fire resist and it also gives the same armor points. This weird situation is not only "between" that 2 tunics - I have also a few Winged Death tunic with +4 const bonus, which has about +24 more armor than Dark Arch Mage tunic, but in the same time it gives in total much lower armor (it was also tested with Beastly Yeties, much lower damages with Dark Arch Mage one). As we know from Wiki (http://regnum.wikia.com/wiki/Armor), tunics give a 50% protection for mages, so theoretically their armor should be the most important in total armor points.

Maybe you know how does it work?

[Shwish]

ive actually noticed this too with a few marksman armours. i always figured it was the damage type resistance playing its part but your two armours seems to have the same strengths so its confuzling me too.

try testing the damages with a friend in the arena maybe. you might get different but more accurate results.

[Vroek]

The necromancer tunic is known to have buggy APs for a long time.
But this is probably the first time someone bothered to actually test the effects.

Why you think sabertooth deal blunt damage, is there list of mobs damage somewhere?
It be easy enough to test if you have warrior, using their passive damage resist.

But my first thought is that they deal slashing damage.
That would make the tunic values something like 160 for the lvl 38, and 140 for the lvl 50.

[simons_pl]

Well, I'm not sure if they do blunt damage, but if they use their paws to attack, it would be probably more blunt than slash damage imho. Anyway I made this test for the first time few weeks ago, when I've dropped Winged Death tunic (which was higher level than DAM tunic I was wearing) with +4 const bonus. My both tunics had Good rate for blunt, I had used Beastly Yeties to test receiving damages - result was the same. I also dunno for sure what type of damage make Yeties, but if they use wooden maces, it is probably blunt. So again lower level DAM tunic seems to be better than 44 level Winged Death tunic.

The idea with Arena is very good, I'm gonna test it in next few days for more relevant results.

I've also noticed one weird thing few weeks ago. It was something with hat I'm wearing, but I don't remember for sure. Anyway, as you can see, my hat is special 44 level Hat of the Stars. One time when I was grinding, I've dropped similar, but non-special hat - it has the same armor (bonus was probably also the same), it was even made from the same Soft fabric. But... it was for at least 47 level mage - 3 levels higher than my special one. The same situation was with one of my tunics (Winged Death one, but I'm not 100% sure) - special one was 2-3 level lower than non-special. Kinda weird, don't you think?

[_Enio_]

The necromancer tunic is known to have buggy APs for a long time.
But this is probably the first time someone bothered to actually test the effects.

Why you think sabertooth deal blunt damage, is there list of mobs damage somewhere?
It be easy enough to test if you have warrior, using their passive damage resist.

But my first thought is that they deal slashing damage.
That would make the tunic values something like 160 for the lvl 38, and 140 for the lvl 50.

There are more tunics with bugged AP. I made some testing last month but gave up due to too much deviance and bugs. i know of at least 1 tunic type that is completely not working - it shows armor points in charscreen but does not reduce damage at all (winter stroke does 500 dmg) iirc Makret tunic and Hat of Enrichment derivates.
Then there are tunics that have different effect of armor on tunic -> armor in charscreen (Tunic ap * ~1.265 wasit for the most, Lord necro was 1,08 tho and alasthor tunic was 1.135)

This is what i got till i was too pissed to go on:
(tests made with Winter stroke and Serpent bite initial dmg which is fixed 500 dmg in both cases)


http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1881/armorshit.jpg

R = reduced damage value
ap = armor points
ap/1R = Armor points per 1 reduced damage

See the deviation is insane. It shouldnt be like that at all when ap was working properly.
Mitigation seems linear as you see in the graph and additive per slots (eg. if you test hat only which reduces hit by 20 and tunic which reduces by 30 you end up with 50 reduction when wearing both).

2 different tunics with same resistance stats should result in the same ap/1R coeff. when things wasnt buggy. No need to investigate much more there beside to find out the "real" armor values of different gear types..




The idea with Arena is very good, I'm gonna test it in next few days for more relevant results.


Good luck! (Headache inc.)



Edit: Btw, my coefficients seem correct for OP Gear: 200 * 1,08(lord necro) + 184 * 0,77(hats) + 152 * 0,47(gloves) (+5) (+1) (+3) = 438

The 2nd tunic seems to have a coefficient ~1,5 oO if we can trust the charscreen values there (always make sure to de and reequip your stuff to check)

Mob damages iirc:
weasels, snakes, wasps, beetles, aquas = pierce
lions, sabres, hyenas, wolfes, pumas, pathers, goblins,gryphonites (?) = slash
Trolls, orcs, cyclops = blunt

Edit2: Mob damages are wrong.

[NotScias]

beetles = pierce

Except Magic Beetles who do magical damage ! (yeah, already tested steel skin on them, it has no effect :P)

[Kittypretty]

i always thought beetles did blkunt dmg too..

because honestly it looks like their primary attack is ramming their head into your crotch repeatedly..i suppose that would be pretty effective though.

DId your tests ever involve the lord conjurer tunic as well?, since the ap seemed wrong, though i wasnt sure if it was purely cosmetic or not.

[Vroek]

Edit: Btw, my coefficients seem correct for OP Gear: 200 * 1,08(lord necro) + 184 * 0,77(hats) + 152 * 0,47(gloves) (+5) (+1) (+3) = 438

The 2nd tunic seems to have a coefficient ~1,5 oO if we can trust the charscreen values there (always make sure to de and reequip your stuff to check)


The second tunic coefficient 1,08 when equipped individually, but a lot higher when equipped with other pieces.

For example the apocalypse tunic 192 gives me a much stranger value of 173 when equipped individually.
That would be more appropriate value if it was a breast piece for archers/warriors.

There is something very confusing and strange with AP.

Either way AP is just a value, it worrying that its not displayed correct at times.
We really dont know what formula is used for damage reduction.

Im also concerned about the hidden class values not working, or dont exist.
This however is so old information, i cant find the original dev posts about it only some old quotes.
It was changed several times from 1.0/1.4 to 1.0/1.2/1.6 then 1.2/1.4/1.8.
Comparing marksmen and barb armour there is no difference in damage reduction, 16% should show quite easily.
I think i will test a knight later, if 50% is not show it dont exist.
Thanks for opening Amun NGD. ;)

[doppelapfel]

Except Magic Beetles who do magical damage ! (yeah, already tested steel skin on them, it has no effect :P)

You cant lower the damage by more than 85% with your armor and resists together, guess the dmg is that low that you already reach this limit with your ap.

[esp_tupac]

i have been playing the game for quite a while now but i have no idea how these stats on the armor affect me. i think NGD messed up the armor point thing ever since the first launch of regnum. it is indeed confusing.

by intuition though, the higher the lvl and better the condition of armor (the stats following the armor points like "superior" "great"etc), the more protection you will get. these are only things im sure of about an armor.

[ncvr]

You cant lower the damage by more than 85% with your armor and resists together, guess the dmg is that low that you already reach this limit with your ap.
It's 90% for most spells, excluding serpent bite, because that's special and its DoT can only be lowered by more than 85% with the use of strategic position. Why? Who knows. /shrug

And the Dark Archmage tunic has been bugged for as long as I can remember. It provides more AP than the skull tunic, and the winged death tunic and every other tunic I've worn on my lock.

[doppelapfel]

85%, not 90%. You can test it with lightning and winterstroke.

[ncvr]

If it is 85% there's no point in having steel skin since it's 90% physical resistance on its own.

Anyway, with lightning, its max dmg is 240. I've seen it go down to 24 (back in the old days with the strong evasive tactics and old strategic position).