New Balance

[TheMessenger]

I cannot see why you will not even answer the question of whether you will let us play with the balance update before you release it but if you want to keep going the way you have been with community interaction go ahead:beerchug:

Anyway a few questions about the update (which I doubt will get answered but since I have nothing else to do)

Will this balance update attempt to

- Fix knight auras and the 3aura limit

- Fix knight grinding

- Nerf summons and trolls

- Give barbs something other than UM so that they can do something against a mentaled mage (which is now like 95% of mages)

- Give knights better armour/health/defence so they can tank like they should

- Lower mana costs for every class (especially conjs and barbs)

- Bring back the "bug" of letting all classes cast on the run (I didnt play amun than but from what I read about it most ppl liked it but NGD didnt so they removed it?)

- Increase marks dmg/range

- Increase drop chance

- Nerf confuse/darkness (darkness is now being spammed as much if not more than confuse, at least on Ra, worse)

- Not nerf every damn spell because thats not what we need in the balance but instead helping some spells (like 50%-70% of the spells on any given class are not used like they should be because of either mana, duration/cd or they just suck.)

Yea thats about it. Any answers would be nice :)

[tjanex]

Don't nerf summons I mean conjs are not hitting over 100 -.- they NEED a strong pet!

[TheMessenger]

Don't nerf summons I mean conjs are not hitting over 100 -.- they NEED a strong pet!

They dont need a 2hit-300norm every 2sec or w.e it is pet. Alot of these warjus have Will domain 5, prick 5, push 1-5, mana burn 3-5, energy borrow 3-5, steel skin etc. They have more than enough powers at their hands and having a summon like this really makes them more oped than they are.

Also the hunter I played hit 200s max (w/o head of the pack) on mages and 24s on a buffed marks...yet ppl complain about my troll that does the norms I need it to do to kill anyone with an sb.

[Ulti19]

I cannot see why you will not even answer the question of whether you will let us play with the balance update before you release it but if you want to keep going the way you have been with community interaction go ahead:beerchug:

Anyway a few questions about the update (which I doubt will get answered but since I have nothing else to do)

Will this balance update attempt to

- Fix knight auras and the 3aura limit

- Fix knight grinding

- Nerf summons and trolls

- Give barbs something other than UM so that they can do something against a mentaled mage (which is now like 95% of mages)

- Give knights better armour/health/defence so they can tank like they should

- Lower mana costs for every class (especially conjs and barbs)

- Bring back the "bug" of letting barbs cast on the run (I didnt play amun than but from what I read about it most ppl liked it but NGD didnt so they removed it?)
- Increase marks dmg/range

- Increase drop chance

- Nerf confuse/darkness (darkness is now being spammed as much if not more than confuse, at least on Ra, worse)

- Not nerf every damn spell because thats not what we need in the balance but instead helping some spells (like 50%-70% of the spells on any given class are not used like they should be because of either mana, duration/cd or they just suck.)

Yea thats about it. Any answers would be nice :)

The running and casting was the coolest thing i've ever seenXD It was for everyone not just barbs but it rocked. Can use auras and run, can shield bash and run making it really effective! I wish that this bug comes back for good.

[ov3rcl0ck]

I really think we need to stop warjurers, because each class has a role, and we should all stick to it. Don't like it, shouldn't have chosen the class. I play a 43 conj now and then, I find it fun to support, but often my barb is need for doors, and I never relog back to my conj.

[TheMessenger]

The running and casting was the coolest thing i've ever seenXD It was for everyone not just barbs but it rocked. Can use auras and run, can shield bash and run making it really effective! I wish that this bug comes back for good.

O I thought it was just barbs but if it was for everyone than thats better

[TheMessenger]

I really think we need to stop warjurers, because each class has a role, and we should all stick to it. Don't like it, shouldn't have chosen the class. I play a 43 conj now and then, I find it fun to support, but often my barb is need for doors, and I never relog back to my conj.

well to stop warjurs would be to stop conjs from grinding really but I always thought a conj should support ppl to lvl not go warju and grind faster than any class so I cant disagree

its just conjs would need to get more xp for it...maybe add an xp of "+supp" for supporting

[Toad_]

Don't nerf summons I mean conjs are not hitting over 100 -.- they NEED a strong pet!

They don't. They are supposed to be the SUPPORT class.

[Topogigio_BR]

They don't. They are supposed to be the SUPPORT class.

Warjures have an easy solution. Give possess the ability of capturing summons 3 or 5 lvls above lock lvl. So any lvl45 lock can have lvl50 summons, till warjures notice how sick to the game is a warjur.

[ieti]

Here we go on conjurers(warjurers) again. Summons as they are are needed to grind. Conjurer without summon is sloow to grind. I know it i grind second or even third conju atm. Zark as it is now is not so big on HP - just jump on it and kill it. Then you can handle warju pretty well.

Real problem with conjurers / knight is that setups that are ment for their role are pretty unnefective and not so fun. So to have fun people are driven to knarb / warju setups. As conju perspective pre 1.0 we got plenty of great spells which made conjurer the heart of the battle. We got fast and cheap heals, effective mana aura(Mana Communion), ranged resist aura(Protection Dome), possibility to prebuff with regens, faster sanctuary etc etc etc. Conjurers was harder to kill and definatelly more more fun. Changes/nerfs that happened was provoked of intention to make warju setups less powerfull. This resuted even worse situation on conjurer setups and this drived even more people to the dark warju side. My conjurer is still fun, but to do so i spend all my gold and magna on trades to get good gear(mana, hp, cs items).

For me situation with knight is same. I do not blame people for playing this kind of setups. They are free to do so and have fun, but it is sad.

[TheMessenger]

Here we go on conjurers(warjurers) again. Summons as they are are needed to grind. Conjurer without summon is sloow to grind. I know it i grind second or even third conju atm. Zark as it is now is not so big on HP - just jump on it and kill it. Then you can handle warju pretty well.



well to stop warjurs would be to stop conjs from grinding really but I always thought a conj should support ppl to lvl not go warju and grind faster than any class so I cant disagree

its just conjs would need to get more xp for it...maybe add an xp of "+supp" for supporting

....there really is no reason a conjurer should have a summon and the fact that the summon is oped makes it worse. You say the zark doesnt have alot of health but neither does a troll, but yet people complain about those saying they are oped. Its not the troll nor the hunter that is oped its the spells that can be used on the pet. While a zarkit/warju is just plain oped. How are you suppose to kill it (as a melee) if you cant reach it? (pricky, will domain, mind push etc.) or are out of mana (mana burn, SS, energy borrow) and how are you suppose to kill it as a ranged class if you cant attack? (will domain, mana burn, beetle swarm etc.)

[ieti]

As for me i do not care for summons. I have my conju level 50 and my Ra conju level 38. Still second needs grind, but i can handle it. Real problem is that if you remove summons and nearly force conjurers to rely on others to gain XP this will kill that class. I'm already sick of situations when i get necro - amb before kill or some mob kill me by accident. In this situations a need to BEG someone to help me clean necro which i do not think is nice. Yes people help, but this situation is abusing for people that play this nice class. If you need to rely to others to gain XP this will be even more abusing and even more will extinct this class.

Another point see warjurers like Raxa - he do not use summon, but is more unplesant than 2/3 of warjurers. This guy have skills and use them right. So you will call for next wave of nerfs?

[Zas_]

Often i see that pets and summons are needed to grind, which is true atm, but still they create imbalance at war.

So it always ends in "don't nerf summon/pet" ... here an easy solution:

- divide summon/pet damages by 2 on characters
- keep same damage on mobs

[Shwish]

- divide summon/pet damages by 2 on characters
- keep same damage on mobs

i like this

maybe the same for knights vs non-boss mobs

[Minorian]

They dont need a 2hit-300norm every 2sec or w.e it is pet. Alot of these warjus have Will domain 5, prick 5, push 1-5, mana burn 3-5, energy borrow 3-5, steel skin etc. They have more than enough powers at their hands and having a summon like this really makes them more oped than they are.

Also the hunter I played hit 200s max (w/o head of the pack) on mages and 24s on a buffed marks...yet ppl complain about my troll that does the norms I need it to do to kill anyone with an sb.

Conjurers have a very small output of damage, except SM :thumb_down: I don't think I'd be able to grind with a nerfed summon. But I do agree to make them less powerful in war=less warjus. Maybe make them good against mobs? A simple damage increase for mobs and malus for players would fix the problem.

....there really is no reason a conjurer should have a summon and the fact that the summon is oped makes it worse. You say the zark doesnt have alot of health but neither does a troll, but yet people complain about those saying they are oped. Its not the troll nor the hunter that is oped its the spells that can be used on the pet. While a zarkit/warju is just plain oped. How are you suppose to kill it (as a melee) if you cant reach it? (pricky, will domain, mind push etc.) or are out of mana (mana burn, SS, energy borrow) and how are you suppose to kill it as a ranged class if you cant attack? (will domain, mana burn, beetle swarm etc.)
Why shouldnt a conju have a summon? Care to explain it? And are you freaking blind? I see lvl 50 zarkits go down in 1 hit from barbs. Thats not much health, maybe around 1000. Trolls I see taking 2-3 hits, so I'd say about 2.5k health. Big difference. Yes it is also the buffs for a pet, they are way too good. Warjus have no SS. As a barb how about UM? WHen I used to be warju, if an knight came at me and Ao1'd, I would more often than not run. Oh, and SS is a lock spell. Yes, as a range class you have less of a chance as warriors. But it is still very possible. As a marks, keep your range at all costs. Everything in mental has 25 range, so why not sty at 40 range? :) As a hunter, sneak up under camo. Confuse warju, bestial the shit outa summon, and it's all over. Ambush, stun fist, it wont take long. As a lock, if you can't steal the summon (if you can, you destroy the pvp, it's a landslide) try "wasting" a sultar. Having them both down is a huge advantage, and 1 spell will finish the zark, then you can meteor conju, use mental cc's, kill their mana locks have endless options. I won't explain to as another warju.

THe only time I personaly see zarkits are in the hands of locks. Who thought of that sh** XD

[Pnarpa]

I think it's true that by nerfing summons you'll see a lot less warjurers in war, but also less conjurers altogether. The way it is right now the conjurer class (full support) is unenjoyable to play. You always have to rely on others to get to places or to grind off necro.

When a bridge is camped and you're in full support, then basically you can't go anywhere unless you have some nice realmmates wich is rare. I can understand why people go with the warjurer setup because of this.

[time-to-die]

Hi,
How you want a grind a conj with out a summoning? they just have few good skills for atk. But the normal hits are just to low for with out a summoning.
(sorry about my bad english)
with kind regards

[TheMessenger]

Ok since most did not read my comment of how a conj would lvl w/o a summon

A conj is a support class and NGD has stated they want mages being the hardest classes to grind and (I think) also the least played, warriors the easiest to grind and archers inbetween. This is because when you watch movies you see the most of warriors, than archers and mages are usually few unless its a huge battle.

So therefore a conj should not have a summon because, once again, they are a support class and are suppose to be the hardest class to grind. Having a summon basically destroys this vision. Now for what I said about them lvling w/o a summon, NGD should give conj more xp for Support grinding (and if you do this in a grp of ppl instead of just 1 person you actually get a decent amount of xp already) and give more xp for mobs overall.

If you don't like being dependent on other people for protection than why the fuck are you playing the main support class in the game? As a conj you hold people by the balls, so to speak. If they don't help you all you have to say is don't expect anything from me at a fort and 9 times out of 10 they will change their attitude.

[ieti]

Problem is sometimes there are no parties or ppl willing for support. What to do then sit and die from boredom? Most of times there are no people who protect you in battle, so unless you have partner conju who shares your faith and you support each other, you are dead meat for seconds. I telled this in several threads conju can not be protected it is nearly impossible, so most of the times if you see alive conju in bad situation it is because of some lucky coincidence or fast reactions.

You played conju before i know it and you know that if there is not war support conjurer is dead char. You can only chat at cs. That is reason more and more conjus hop to warjus, make warlocks, hunters, marks...

Conju is most stresfull class in battle - you are yelled, hammered by enemies, kill the conju kill the conju! And you want to make us ever more dependent from others. Do we deserver this?

Lately one more of our conjus turned to warju - Eufira if i remember good :ohill:

[Mr_Egg]

I knew the conversation would go this way from the first couple of posts, so I've only skim-read most of it, and this may have already been said:

Yes, reduce damage from summons, but also increase experience gained from support spells.

This way, more conjurers will grind with a support setup, meaning there's more teamwork in the wz, the conjurers that grad have a better idea of how to support, and the game would generally be more fun, since when they step out into the warzone, they'll have some idea of what they're doing and increase how long fights last, because players on both sides would be well supported.

Conjurers, being the main support class, should not be insanely hard to grind, but summons can give them too great an advantage.

Also, @ warjus in general - for crying out loud, DI your zarks :sifflote:

[TheMessenger]

I knew the conversation would go this way from the first couple of posts, so I've only skim-read most of it, and this may have already been said:

Yes, reduce damage from summons, but also increase experience gained from support spells.



"NGD should give conj more xp for Support grinding (and if you do this in a grp of ppl instead of just 1 person you actually get a decent amount of xp already) and give more xp for mobs overall. ":p

[TheMessenger]

Problem is sometimes there are no parties or ppl willing for support. What to do then sit and die from boredom? Most of times there are no people who protect you in battle, so unless you have partner conju who shares your faith and you support each other, you are dead meat for seconds. I telled this in several threads conju can not be protected it is nearly impossible, so most of the times if you see alive conju in bad situation it is because of some lucky coincidence or fast reactions.

You played conju before i know it and you know that if there is not war support conjurer is dead char. You can only chat at cs. That is reason more and more conjus hop to warjus, make warlocks, hunters, marks...

Conju is most stresfull class in battle - you are yelled, hammered by enemies, kill the conju kill the conju! And you want to make us ever more dependent from others. Do we deserver this?

Lately one more of our conjus turned to warju - Eufira if i remember good :ohill:

Yes that is true but I dont know too many players with just 1 char (whether they have made others or have access to others) and imo if support conjing was made more appealing and warjuring made less appealing than there would be enough conjs to protect each other and if there arent and your realm lets you die than that is your realms fault for not protecting you and you need to talk to them about it.

People depend on conjs more than conjs depend on others...alot more than what conjs depend on them. Without conjs most forts wouldnt be taken/held and nor would it be possible to defeat bosses.

The problem right now is that most conjs are not only selfish warjus but realm mates dont protect/respect their conjs. Which needs to change and it will if conjs would grow a pair and put them in their place. All you have to say to someone yelling at you or annoying you is that they need to stfu or you wont help them. That will put them in their place. Ive done it plenty of times ;)

[Kyrottimus]

+1 to everything said by the OP.

Pre 1.0.8 combat system meant more than just being able to cast/buff on the move (which made for much faster and reactive combat)...but all spells and buffs cast in exactly their listed cast-times.

For Example: Deafening Roar is listed as .5 seconds casting time. But a lot of the time if you just completed an attack animation (not even a real attack, as a phantom swing will disrupt all ability to cast anything), it could take up to 3 seconds for the .5 second casting time to even start.

This never happened before 1.0.8. You'd activate a spell and it'd begin casting time immediately.

Bring that back and we'll have the fast-paced combat RO once enjoyed.

[bois]

Hmm the ever popular balance discussion.

Rather than getting into the specific spells and what should be done I think I would just comment on the approach to balance.
Any commentary on the former I believe would just go on into infinitum.

Before any discussion of balance of spells must be put forward , the base must be established and set. By the base I mean , targeting system, combat mechanics, terrain mechanics and the like. To do a balance adjustment and then to figure out that you are changing the base mechanics will simply mean the current balance will just have to be chucked.

Second level, Armour, weapons, base damage/defense equations must solidified and set.

Third level, now we look at the spells in question.

My approach to this would be to firstly, look at the least used spells and establish why they are not used. The community input here is key, they are using the spells.
Make a decision to either, adjust up or down, retool completely or retire for a new spell.
First round takes 1 spell from every class and apply this formula. This process goes forward with the improved spell which is sent live for a 2 week trial.
In the meantime the second round of spells get a look at. During the trial the same community will help to assess it. At the end of the 2 week trial there is a one week lapse when next round of spells will be delivered along with slight tweaks to the first round.
After this is done the first round goes into moratorium until the balance wheel makes a full turn again. Next third round and so on.
Now the amount of spells that NGD can handle at a time is really up to them but 6 seem to be a reasonable amount.
Using this method, we would probably get less unused spells, better spell distribution and as such more diverse setups leading to better wars (hopefully). In the same breath, the working spells would get touched last as it should be.

What is required is a methodical tick-tock approach to the balance equation.

Based on what I wrote above, it seems to me that the question of dual wielding MUST come along with its spell adjustments (if any) and then the idea of balancing anything else comes next.

Extending my mind a bit, I always wondered about the effect /reset_powers had on the global balance of character formations and their interactions in a group war setting. Now I am by no means advocating any sort of cull on the system but it would be interesting , if for example, players were encouraged to maintain a setup that was native to their particular class and somehow be able to unlock some kind of new spell for doing so.

Example: a support conjurer who uses high level heals can accumulate spell experience on this particular tree and when they accumulate the required amount can unlock a special ability that is very powerful uses no mana but has a CD of like 15minutes or something like that. An example spell could be "mass resurrection". You use reset powers and all this accumulated experience is lost as is access to the special 'lost art' spell. Might be interesting if something like that was to happen.

Now, notice I said "native to the class"
This means that shared trees will never have this power up bonus spell. Only class specific ones. So you can do knarb, warju, etc. but you will never gain that elusive uber spell. Of course it must be noted that idea is that only one of the class specific trees are used per class. So hunters would have Scouting, Locks have Necromancy, Marksmen have Aiming mastery, Knights have Vanguard, Barbs have Warcries and conjurers have Life for example.

Just my random thoughts.

Artec

[Minorian]

On the topic of conju grinding, yes we do all want conjus slaving to heal us while we grind. It's true. The problem is, from a conjus perspective, heals while grinding are very boring, the xp gained is shit, it is almost impossible to find even 1 person to support let alone a group, and when you can't find anyone, you sit around whistling! yayyy!!! Doesn't that just make you want to support grinders! :thumb_up:

[Dome]

regnum is probably the only game where the best PvP class is the healer support. I can think of only 1 reason why NGD keeps conjus overpowered and thats cuz they think otherwise nobody whould play with them since everybody wants to be powerfull.
IMO conjus need to be forced back to be support roll. its better to have a few conjus who play to support than what now happens. just track a zerg going to take a fort and 70% of it will be mages.

staff mastery needs to be abolished completely save for spells like mana com. I think its not fair that mages can accelerate rate of fire AND extend range, while archers need to chose between. mages get no HC reduction for acceleration either.
mages have ambi sacrifice, so work with spells not normal hits. archers can only work with a limited amount of mana and still need all the tricks to take down a lock not even mentioning a warju(except if a hunter can camo ambush).
most mages with SM hit more than a marx. where is the balance here?
locks cast dizzy with a range 30, and hit 600 with it. I hit !!!10!!! with my burst arrow true it lasts 3seconds longer and I can cast it farther, still the dmg it does is pathetic. it should have 100% weapon dmg for at least this arrow.

with barrier mages have as much hp as a warrior. surely some wiseguy will reply: "use etherial arrow" or something but again, soulkeep hits 1000 AND heals 1000 on lock. ehterial arrow hit 600! and not only locks have resisting problems. personally I hate evasion discipline but the only chance to beat a lock at least if I waste points on SOTW. but what will I do against barbs who only need to run around me so I wont be able to hit them. SOTW wont help there.

Im not a fan of nerfs. so raise marx, warriors dmg, and not by 20-30. and lower mana cost and cd on marx abilities.

I know its not popular to defend hunters, but the truth is they suck at forts. only support they can give is track. the only class that has 4 absolutly useless spells (track ally/monster, and !!3!! tame spells.)

[Minorian]

I don't understand the hunters useless at forts argument, if your Alsius and Ignis you often come way out of the fort for a real field fight, where hunters excel at camoing and crushing. If your Syrtis you just camo with the other 999999999999999999999999999 hunters and think your cool when you kill a conj :thumb:

[Shwish]

actually alot of mmorpg's have difficulty drawing a line between what is typically known as the wizard and priest classes. wizards being the equivilent of a warlock and priest the equivelent of a conjurer.

The problem i see in other mmorpg's is that the wizard class is focused on dealing damage so they're given a truck-load of damaging spells which most wizards only focus on the two or three best skills and the rest are just never used. Priest are given the ability to heal themselves and cast defensive buffs but the downfall is that they're given damaging skills too but not as much as the wizard but they're still on par with the few that the wizard uses. which is understandable because priest need to able to kill things in order to lvl up. So what we see is the support class sitting with a wide range of skills which can handle any situation and the offensive class sitting with a tab full of useless skills spamming the same combination of spells over and over. Due to thier wide range of abilities to buff up defense, heal and deal good damage, the healer class is the best pvp class in most of the mmorpg's ive played

If you look at this issue in Regnum, i think NGD has handled it alot better than most other mmorpg's even tho the problem does still exist.

for grinding most games use the standard party system where the exp gained is split evenly amoungst all the party members. that doesnt happen in Regnum which is why support conjurers lack the ability to gain decent exp when grinding. maybe give the party leader the option to choose (a little box that you check somewhere in the party tab) whether he wants to use an even split of exp amoungst the party or the usual RO exp gaining system. I often see grinders looking for parties but are not willing to accept a barbarian because its not economical for them to grind with one.

[Dark_Barbarian]

errm excuse me but what bug? i dont have a good memery please enlighten me when you guys say running AND casting at the same time? i have no memery of that bug.

[ncvr]

regnum is probably the only game where the best PvP class is the healer support.
I can think of two others, both quite well known.

errm excuse me but what bug? i dont have a good memery please enlighten me when you guys say running AND casting at the same time? i have no memery of that bug.
It was on amun during the testing of the 1.0.8 combat update.

[Torin_Ironfist]

Whats wrong with knight grinding?

[Kittypretty]

the grinding :)

[Dome]

I can think of two others, both quite well known.

If you look at this issue in Regnum, i think NGD has handled it alot better than most other mmorpg's even tho the problem does still exist.

Its ok than. NGD nerfed those bastard marx to the point all they can do is stand shoot and after a few sec die. I know barbs and specially knights have limited use at forts being as door breakers and defenders but this is ridiculous.

I dont really want to start a debate about hunters usefullness at forts but IMO they gank grinders, because they make better rp by doing that than fighting at forts. And we are all rp whores deep inside. I dont want to give them some uber attack spells instead of those 4 stupid ones, just something that makes them more support like. Example: an area buff like offheads but instead of dmg increase it would increase hit chance. That was the best I could come up with. I dont want to make hunters more powerfull but more welcome at forts hearing thing like: "oh look he cast his buff on me. what a nice guy that hunter is." and not things like: "hah! he cast camo corps on my rotting noob dead body so I wouldnt be cremated and need to be afking at the save. what a looser hunter!"

I havent played that many MMos but in the one I did things worked like this:
for grinding most games use the standard party system where the exp gained is split evenly amoungst all the party members.

maybe give the party leader the option to choose (a little box that you check somewhere in the party tab) whether he wants to use an even split of exp amoungst the party or the usual RO exp gaining system.

And the healer only had 1 area dmg spell that actually kicked bitts.

I dont know much about economy, but I had no trouble putting my summon on a barb and waiting for the xp to flow in, since something that kills faster means more xp for the conju as well. Never been good at maths though.
I ve seen many conjus grinding alone and saying: "thats my mob feck off" when I dared to hit the one he was shooting with his overpowered class, but making an excuse to that out of the fact that they need to level as well is annoying.
priest need to able to kill things in order to lvl up.
mage classes are the fastest levelers in the game so a little HUGE nerf wont be a problem for them.

But I guess its ok that the range speciallist can be easily outdamaged AND outranged. that a barb has no chance against a whimpy mage. that knights are nothing more than security locks on fort doors.
players of regnum! put on a womans dress get ur grannys stick and let the toga party start! WE SHALL BE AS MAGES!!!

[ncvr]

One of the MMORPGs I was thinking of was WoW. Considering its reputation as a PvE heavy game, you'd be surprised that the most versatile healing class (the priest) was also highly effective DPS in both PvP and PvE, right? Well, it's true...
The Shadow Priest brings the highest damage to the table of all the Priest talent builds. [...] bring immense utility to a group, as they heal and regenerate mana whilst the Priest deals damage. Shadow Priests also bring the utility of being able to Silence or fear [...] their enemies. Furthermore, the use of Shadow talents [...] allowing the Priest to deal immense damage in AoE situations.
Regnum looks little different. Warjus bring significant dmg-dealing and utility to the table in both grinding and war, this is a fact. If anything at all in this game relating to warjus is overpowered, it's not their summons or dmg capabilities, it's a trait they share with warlocks - the ability to keep a target CCed, without fear of diminishing returns, until their target dies with no means of fighting back, yet still having those dmg capabilities, and dmg mitigation/heals to top it off, all in the same setup.

[Dome]

now Im not going to pretend I understood everything u just said.
but I do belive if what u say is right that would make barbs overpowered since they have a nice CC capability 3 knock down ability, a stun dizzy that would make anyone unable to fight.

I do belive its a matter of range rather than CC skills. I admit barbs have high dmg but cant use it since they cant get close to anything other than another barb, a knight and I do think even though marx have some CC I they wont skill tricks they are just victims to any warrior.

I keep repeating myself that Im not a fan of nerf, so I dont want mage spells to be weakened. but I do belive that having high range dmg should be a marx trade mark. At present mages have a wide variety of spells that they can use almost without stopping to rest, ANd they can have a high dmg output.

Whilst what other classes have is just high dmg, and a limited use of spells.
Im not fighting to weaken mages, but to strenghten marx, barbs and knights a bit, and give something to hunters so they can feel they are welcome at forts and not just called to track enemies and because tomorrow u may want to go and hunt a bit to make u feel better after last nights defeat and a hunter would make that easier.

[DkySven]

Now there's a thread from NGD about the subject this thread was created for, I suggest you continue the discussion about upcoming balance changes there:
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=63474