Balance Update: official thread (stage 1)

[Raideniza]

yes, this is what we are saying to do (not as low as 30%)

don't make it % chance please, just alter the duration on levels, make it max 5s knock on lvl5 and it will be balanced. just leave the %'s out, so far almost nothing in this game that has to do with % chances works properly.

[Kyrottimus]

I know it's probably not very constructive, but it is cathartic, so I'm going to play devil's advocate and list all the changes I'd make if I were balance-guru for a day:

All resist and evade rates would be cut in half to cut their frequency in half.

All mob base exp rates are increased +15% across the board. More players I know have quit playing simply because the grind is too long and tedious, even with boosters.

Arrow Costs would be reduced to 50% of their current levels.

Repair Costs would be reduced to 50% of their current levels.

Low Profile would be removed completely and replaced with something that isn't a bullsh*t get-out-of-dying-free card.

Confuse would have all duration cut in half.

All marksman attack spells would receive 10% less mana cost.

Recharged Arrows would have mana-cost reduced by 25% per level.

Ambush knock duration would be reduced 2 seconds per level. It has range, it's knockdown should be less than a melee knock since melee have to cover ground while taking fire/damage before reaching target. Also, the cooldown would have 10 more seconds added to it.

Will Domain's knock duration would be reduced 1 second per level. It has (less) range than ambush and costs more mana but it still has range.

Son of the Wind would give a "cannot attack" debuff.

Pets tree would be completely reconfigured. Ideally, I'd just get rid of pets altogether and replace it with Traps or Cunning trees. But I doubt such a wish is a realistic action NGD would undertake. So, Pets would no longer be able to attack while the hunter is moving nor move faster than their master. Pet attack range would be severely reduced and they would no longer be able to resist any spells or evade any attacks. Having a pet alive and active would reduce the hunter's mana regen rate by half (because you're controlling a beast, it should take "energy" to keep it going). Which reminds me...

Bestial Wrath's mana cost would be increased by 10%.

Knight Auras would be all 360 degrees again (Which I think Chilko mentioned in another thread they will be \o/)

The Shields Tree for knights would have more useful stuff in it. Would give knights a reason to actually skill into it more heavily again to play the role of a defensive knight. Better auras, easier-to-cast Shield Bash. Which reminds me...

Shield Bash would be piggy-backable. Which reminds me...

All single-target warrior attacks (not areas) would be piggy-backable.

Beetle Swarm would have range reduced to 15m (it's a friggen defensive spell, should be used more as such).

Time Master would have duration reduced 2 seconds per level.

Sultar's Terror would have duration reduced by 2 seconds per level. (But splash range, damage and stackability would remain)

All ranged summons would lose 5m of attack range.

Conjurers would receive lower CD times for their healing spells.

Conjurers would receive +100% more EXP credit for support conjuring grinders.

Protection Dome would be made as functional as the old pre 1.0 protection dome.

All barb-specific self-buffs (tfb, berserk, frenzy, etc.) would have mana-costs reduced by 20% each across the board.

Onslaught would have duration raised to 15 seconds and mana-cost reduced by 50mp per level (so 350mp at level 5).

Warriors would receive a base +10% chance to resist all knockdowns.

Warriors would receive a base +10% to their armor rating.

Warriors would receive a base +10% to their hit points.

Mages would receive a base +10% to their mana pool.

Archers would receive a base +5% to their mana pool and a base +5% to their hit points.

Martial Reflexes' +100% to Crit-chance would be replaced with +30 conc bonus. Durations and mana costs would remain the same.

Athletic in the Slashing tree for warriors would be renamed "Dedication" and the +Dex passive would be exchanged with +conc and a slight +str (at level 5 would be +10 conc and +5 str).

Disable Limb would add a slight one-time fixed slashing damage of 20/40/60/80/100 depending on level.

Fatal Strike's mana cost would be reduced by half per level.

Ripost would be .5 second casting time instead of 1 second.

Impale would have attack damage % reduced to 80% but would have higher DoT tickrate. Instead of 5-10 per tick it would be 40-70 raw damage (like Break Apart). Durations and mana costs would remain the same.

Lightning Strike would confer a short Dizzy effect to the area attack damage and +20/40/60/80/100 piercing damage on top of 100% attack damage.

Spiritual Blow's damage would be increased to 60%/70%/80%/90%/100% per level (which would in effect leave level 5 to be exactly the same as it is now).

Rend, Destabilize, Fulminating and Rage of the Earth would all be tweaked to be more tactically usable for the barb. Would include things such as "cannot attack" and "cannot cast non-damaging powers" and +elemental damage to attack and a higher % chance to knock (RotE) for all 4.

Casting things like Spring or Mobility while autorunning would not stop your character from auto-running.

All character stats and values would be shown in character window. This includes things like Spell Focus, Critical-Hit Chance, Knock Resist Chance (from const and passives/active spells), etc. so players can have more tangible means of seeing the results of them adjusting their character's gear and build.

Agg Market would be moved closer to Agg Save, and Samal Market would be moved closer to Samal Save, on par with Herb Market being so close to Herb save as it is.

Ignis quests would get all of their current EXP received doubled (or add more ignis quests so they are on par with Alsius/Syrtis in regards to total EXP possible).

Koronton's Ring would be fixed so it actually works.

Aysor's Amulet would be changed to +100hp and +20 ice dmg. (almost like a mini Alasthor amulet).

Mobs that have the words "HUGE" or "GIANT" in their names cannot evade anything (because they're too friggen big to evade anything)

Mobs that have the words "Young" or "Small" or "Tiny" in their names (or just small mobs in general) cannot resist anything (Because they're so small they shouldn't be able to resist things).

When dismounting off of a horse the "Cannot attack/Cannot Buff" cooldown would be reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

The casting timer to mount a horse will be increased from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.

Thorkul's Slaying Jaw would be fixed and altered to have the following damage and bonuses:

Thorkul's Slaying Jaw of Fine Steel (Master)
Requires Barbarian Level 50
Class: Sword
Damage: Slashing: 254-301 (+33)
Piercing: 25

Attack Speed: Medium

Bonuses:
+6 Intelligence
+16 Hit Chance
(Yes, that's right, +6 to Intelligence as a bonus for a barb)


...I'd put more down but this is long enough as it is. I realize most if not all will probably take issue with this post. But I think one player with one outlook could (hopefully) trigger more of YOU players to actively write down a long list of changes YOU would like to see made based upon your playing experiences.

Obviously it's not going to happen as we put it down, but *maybe* NGD will read them all and perhaps it will help give them a broader sense of the player-base's idea of balance?

FWIW.

[Malevolence]

Awesome ideas. I especially like the ons idea. Any thoughts on UM or did I miss that?

[Recoil]

Since NGD is currently attempting to fix warrior playability (among other things), please take a look at this thread in Balance subforum http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=63740

[Sekken]

Hehe, I really like your ideas here, Kyro... even though I don't think NGD will lift a finger in your favor... thing I like the most was the Aysor Ammy change... only thing its good at doing right now is protecting us from our own epic mobs... not so much against realm enemies.



Back to NGDs ideas... I like most of them - not sure how they'll turn out (but who really does?) - only thing I would do would be to reduce CDs and mana cost on heals... Support Conjus DO like to be useful in war. Standing around watching allies die as you keep an eye on your spells' CD isn't too fun.

Anyway... that's all I had to say. :P

[Topogigio_BR]

wtf? lemme count, i use at least 8 active and 4 passive lvl1 spells regularly. (Edit: on my marksman)

I use total of 27 spells in my mark, and i am not even counting with passives lvl1.

I think marks has to deal with little mana thats why we use so many lvl1 spells.

[Topogigio_BR]

I know it's probably not very constructive, but it is cathartic, so I'm going to play devil's advocate and list all the changes I'd make if I were balance-guru for a day:

All resist and evade rates would be cut in half to cut their frequency in half.

All mob base exp rates are increased +15% across the board. More players I know have quit playing simply because the grind is too long and tedious, even with boosters.

Arrow Costs would be reduced to 50% of their current levels.

Repair Costs would be reduced to 50% of their current levels.

Low Profile would be removed completely and replaced with something that isn't a bullsh*t get-out-of-dying-free card.

Confuse would have all duration cut in half.

All marksman attack spells would receive 10% less mana cost.

Recharged Arrows would have mana-cost reduced by 25% per level.

Ambush knock duration would be reduced 2 seconds per level. It has range, it's knockdown should be less than a melee knock since melee have to cover ground while taking fire/damage before reaching target. Also, the cooldown would have 10 more seconds added to it.

Will Domain's knock duration would be reduced 1 second per level. It has (less) range than ambush and costs more mana but it still has range.

Son of the Wind would give a "cannot attack" debuff.

Pets tree would be completely reconfigured. Ideally, I'd just get rid of pets altogether and replace it with Traps or Cunning trees. But I doubt such a wish is a realistic action NGD would undertake. So, Pets would no longer be able to attack while the hunter is moving nor move faster than their master. Pet attack range would be severely reduced and they would no longer be able to resist any spells or evade any attacks. Having a pet alive and active would reduce the hunter's mana regen rate by half (because you're controlling a beast, it should take "energy" to keep it going). Which reminds me...

Bestial Wrath's mana cost would be increased by 10%.

Knight Auras would be all 360 degrees again (Which I think Chilko mentioned in another thread they will be \o/)

The Shields Tree for knights would have more useful stuff in it. Would give knights a reason to actually skill into it more heavily again to play the role of a defensive knight. Better auras, easier-to-cast Shield Bash. Which reminds me...

Shield Bash would be piggy-backable. Which reminds me...

All single-target warrior attacks (not areas) would be piggy-backable.

Beetle Swarm would have range reduced to 15m (it's a friggen defensive spell, should be used more as such).

Time Master would have duration reduced 2 seconds per level.

Sultar's Terror would have duration reduced by 2 seconds per level. (But splash range, damage and stackability would remain)

All ranged summons would lose 5m of attack range.

Conjurers would receive lower CD times for their healing spells.

Conjurers would receive +100% more EXP credit for support conjuring grinders.

Protection Dome would be made as functional as the old pre 1.0 protection dome.

All barb-specific self-buffs (tfb, berserk, frenzy, etc.) would have mana-costs reduced by 20% each across the board.

Onslaught would have duration raised to 15 seconds and mana-cost reduced by 50mp per level (so 350mp at level 5).

Warriors would receive a base +10% chance to resist all knockdowns.

Warriors would receive a base +10% to their armor rating.

Warriors would receive a base +10% to their hit points.

Mages would receive a base +10% to their mana pool.

Archers would receive a base +5% to their mana pool and a base +5% to their hit points.

Martial Reflexes' +100% to Crit-chance would be replaced with +30 conc bonus. Durations and mana costs would remain the same.

Athletic in the Slashing tree for warriors would be renamed "Dedication" and the +Dex passive would be exchanged with +conc and a slight +str (at level 5 would be +10 conc and +5 str).

Disable Limb would add a slight one-time fixed slashing damage of 20/40/60/80/100 depending on level.

Fatal Strike's mana cost would be reduced by half per level.

Ripost would be .5 second casting time instead of 1 second.

Impale would have attack damage % reduced to 80% but would have higher DoT tickrate. Instead of 5-10 per tick it would be 40-70 raw damage (like Break Apart). Durations and mana costs would remain the same.

Lightning Strike would confer a short Dizzy effect to the area attack damage and +20/40/60/80/100 piercing damage on top of 100% attack damage.

Spiritual Blow's damage would be increased to 60%/70%/80%/90%/100% per level (which would in effect leave level 5 to be exactly the same as it is now).

Rend, Destabilize, Fulminating and Rage of the Earth would all be tweaked to be more tactically usable for the barb. Would include things such as "cannot attack" and "cannot cast non-damaging powers" and +elemental damage to attack and a higher % chance to knock (RotE) for all 4.

Casting things like Spring or Mobility while autorunning would not stop your character from auto-running.

All character stats and values would be shown in character window. This includes things like Spell Focus, Critical-Hit Chance, Knock Resist Chance (from const and passives/active spells), etc. so players can have more tangible means of seeing the results of them adjusting their character's gear and build.

Agg Market would be moved closer to Agg Save, and Samal Market would be moved closer to Samal Save, on par with Herb Market being so close to Herb save as it is.

Ignis quests would get all of their current EXP received doubled (or add more ignis quests so they are on par with Alsius/Syrtis in regards to total EXP possible).

Koronton's Ring would be fixed so it actually works.

Aysor's Amulet would be changed to +100hp and +20 ice dmg. (almost like a mini Alasthor amulet).

Mobs that have the words "HUGE" or "GIANT" in their names cannot evade anything (because they're too friggen big to evade anything)

Mobs that have the words "Young" or "Small" or "Tiny" in their names (or just small mobs in general) cannot resist anything (Because they're so small they shouldn't be able to resist things).

When dismounting off of a horse the "Cannot attack/Cannot Buff" cooldown would be reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

The casting timer to mount a horse will be increased from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.

Thorkul's Slaying Jaw would be fixed and altered to have the following damage and bonuses:

Thorkul's Slaying Jaw of Fine Steel (Master)
Requires Barbarian Level 50
Class: Sword
Damage: Slashing: 254-301 (+33)
Piercing: 25

Attack Speed: Medium

Bonuses:
+6 Intelligence
+16 Hit Chance
(Yes, that's right, +6 to Intelligence as a bonus for a barb)


...I'd put more down but this is long enough as it is. I realize most if not all will probably take issue with this post. But I think one player with one outlook could (hopefully) trigger more of YOU players to actively write down a long list of changes YOU would like to see made based upon your playing experiences.

Obviously it's not going to happen as we put it down, but *maybe* NGD will read them all and perhaps it will help give them a broader sense of the player-base's idea of balance?

FWIW.

So lets all do warriors and leave the other classes behind.
Problem i see in warriors are not the lack of some spells, but just numbers.
Put 6 warriors against 6 archers for example, bet who sides will won?
Problem is warriors are the most harder class to grind. Solve problem with warriors grinding solve problem with warriors at all. One of the problems with warriors grinding is that they need support conju to grind fluid, makes conju to have more xp when supporting then on warju setup and we will see lots of warriors solving this meele x ranged issue.
For me is a much better solution then giving warriors ability of killing 3-5 ranged if they can catch.

[_Enio_]

@chilko

I wish we would get less chancebased gameplay (with obvious reasons, the more luck wins fights the less impact 'skill' in sense of smart use of abilities has).

So if theres a chance for balance through counters i would prefer this 1000 times.

[Arafails]

the other thing that we would like to do also is for every power to start in 0 so people would have to spend points for every spell and there are no cool freebies.

but we think that people will kill us for that too :)

I would happily give up my freebies for an additional, say, twenty power points at level fifty (A third of the total freebie points) — or even fifteen would probably do, but maybe not for mages. This would allow for a greater effectiveness in specialist builds, whilst still allowing the possibility of putting together an all-purpose platform.
The only problems I envisage would be for new players; Obviously those first 4 power points need to be assigned as is — or else what is the point of having spells at level one? — but then do how do these points get redistributed later? Are they always assigned to those first spells? From a gameplay point of view it would be best if one could move them away, but this might not make sense from a training history point of view....

[Inkster]

Some interesting Changes, in regards to the changes on spells, I can see quite a few mages having to rethink on their play style, which imo isn't such a bad thing

[Skjringsaal]

Well you have came up with a solution yourself.

If you want to nerf a Sultar's Terror, make it a chance knockdown, not 100% knockdown. Area and damge stays the same but knockdown is 30% only.

I find this terrible. It's like frozen storm (I don't know exactly the english name of the spell), but with better damage. Terror gives a chance to the warlock to be useful against 2 or 3 enemies atacking him first, because he's the most fragile. In compensation, an archer has SoTW, a conjurer has sanctuary or iron skin, a barbarian has u. madness, a knight has army of one.
It would be enough with -20% ranged damage -20% physical damage in "¿auras? /buff" given for knights, mana pylon and mass dispell. One of the suggestions in spanish forum was put to mass dispell or/and dispell the short immnuity for controls.

I'd like to add that an army could prevent Sultar's Terror if it would be range 30 instead 0, and think again about put a half cooldown for spells which have been canceled while they were casted by any control spell (for example, Terror canceled by meteor).


Next message: please read 1.6 in forum regulations.

[Recoil]

IIt's like frozen storm (I don't know exactly the english name of the spell), but with better damage

I think if you can not figure out a difference between an effect of freeze and an effect of knockdown, you should not post in any threads that discuss balance.

[Skjringsaal]

I am just interested in defending my argument with what I will write. Any penalty can provide to a player a door to the strategy. Using frozen storm (or whatever is its name), you affect just a part of the players, which in war is a good result for what we are looking. But moving this change to the situations that a warlock faces in the map, without walls or conjurers. It just has master of time, master of doom, twister, and all them need time and short range to be casted.

I find this suggestion terrible because it turns a warlock almost as vulnerable against many atacks of archers as a barbarian with less healt and less defenses. Which is in a bad situation nowadays.

Sorry for my bad english, and I don't need to explain that the argument is about the impact of the effect in a battle without walls. Other comparison could be frozen storm vs master of time for defenses (considering how many players are affected).

[Minorian]

......

I like most of the changes, but I fear it is incredibly barb favoring, a bit too much. I might also add some more buffing for marks, without creating a bigger imbalance with the uber-gear ones.

[NotScias]

Beetle Swarm would have range reduced to 15m (it's a friggen defensive spell, should be used more as such).


I slightly agree (because they are really favouring warriors too much imo) with most of your ideas, except this one.
Beetle Swarm is fine, and you know it.
Reducing its range to 15 would make it unefficient against marks, SM bitches, hunters, zarkits, etc, and knowing that it's sometimes the only way to stop them from minigunning from range, it'd be really devastating for mages esp. Conjurers, and it wouldn't solve the spam of it in RvR at all... (which is caused by ranged vs melee imbalance, not the spell itself...)
Really stop thinking that this spell is designed against warriors only...

[Nekoko]

I agree with Shining-Scias Bettle Swarm is 5 to 9 seconds of unable to attack with a cool down of 40 seconds it's not like one person can spam it on you over and over. You can run around a locks to stop them casting in the mean time or find a tree, it's not hard, Bettle should be left alone.

[UmarilsStillHere]

You can run around a locks to stop them casting in the mean time.

That hasnt worked for years, they only need to be facing you for the first split second of the cast, (no hard with mouse turning) after that you could be 10ft behind them and still get cast on.

[doppelapfel]

That hasnt worked for years, they only need to be facing you for the first split second of the cast, (no hard with mouse turning) after that you could be 10ft behind them and still get cast on.

This has worked for years, now it doesnt anymore. Anyway it might help, some mages dont use the mouse but the keyboard to turn around and are to slow to get into the right position to start casting.

[Pakos]

chilko tell me one thing, are you planning to fix drop for special shields someday? :>

[TheMessenger]

chilko tell me one thing, are you planning to fix drop for special shields someday? :>

lol you really want that shield :p

but you will just be quoted (maybe) and told that this is not the right thread to talk about this

[Pakos]

lol you really want that shield :p

but you will just be quoted (maybe) and told that this is not the right thread to talk about this

i really really want it because it's a last missing item for my lovely knight :metal:

anyway i belive it's a proper thread since we're talking about balance, unbalance is that long time ago we could find them, some of us use them, now we cannot find them anymore :>

[TheMessenger]

i really really want it because it's a last missing item for my lovely knight :metal:

anyway i belive it's a proper thread since we're talking about balance, unbalance is that long time ago we could find them, some of us use them, now we cannot find them anymore :>

this is about class/spell balance though

not item balance :p

[Pakos]

this is about class/spell balance though

not item balance :p

oh cmon, balance is balance, items are considered as balance as well :P

[Barya]

Whole game is now going in algorithm "our range units (1) CC-attack-kill enemy warriors then (2) kill enemy range units" or if no warriors "our range units (1) kill enemy range units".

Warriors initially at first levels easy kill 1v1 any archer, but last levels turn tables back - warrior worth nothing. Thats because of linear character growing +1 to all stats and almost range CC of range units.

There will be always about 0-10% warriors population if barbarian can only doorfight/grind and knight cannot support anyone with good assist powers except of himself. Transforming both to grind machines and more easy control will only crush existed balance - all warriors will be noobs that seek for 50lvl in 2days.

Fix:
1) Increase warriors growing of constitution to +2 per level. Make not only knock/stun depends of constitution - also other resists, include other CC/notattack. Rework knight so knights really can do smth kinda soak dmg incoming to chosen ally or dmg incoming to nearby allies.
2) Barbs. Instead of lame "rage of the earth" - "leap" ability 30 range - this still allows mage to meteor (35 range) but avoid of most ambushes and other. Why barbs dmg is only 800/300~3 times bigger, when barb is half hp when even reach target. Make it at least 5 times more. And this only 1vs1 against range units. Leap will make use of barb area also - barb cannot even reach the crowd without death. Make Onslaught REALLY DRASTICALLY INCREASE SPEED - 8sec/50% bonus speed. Barbs r not using 5ons in non-hunt situations. Noone care of enemy barbs in battle - if UM, all enemy see it and even dont care of you. If you thought about unit that can only door fight/easy grind - you made it good, ye, make other working now.
Whirlwind(5) ability is lame too, i easy make 1k x 10 = 10k damage by any typho/LS/TS but only about 50 thorks with aver 100 dmg with whirl so it should be weapon depend or doubled at least.
3) Make "Jail" ability for knights (ultimate 19lvl) so knight restrict moving of range units by circle area or decrease moving speed of range units coming out circle. They need spells soaking dmg incoming to nearby allies.

Also, addin combat points (working only to enemies) only to warriors will be good. Please dont make warriors just fast lvling. That cannot help for increase their population or fill it with noobs.

Make stun/knock/dizzy/jailing a knights specialization. Make mass/area/leap/speed a barb specialization.

[bigjim138]

Whole game is now going in algorithm "our range units (1) CC-attack-kill enemy warriors then (2) kill enemy range units" or if no warriors "our range units (1) kill enemy range units".

Warriors initially at first levels easy kill 1v1 any archer, but last levels turn tables back - warrior worth nothing. Thats because of linear character growing +1 to all stats and almost range CC of range units.

There will be always about 0-10% warriors population if barbarian can only doorfight/grind and knight cannot support anyone with good assist powers except of himself. Transforming both to grind machines and more easy control will only crush existed balance - all warriors will be noobs that seek for 50lvl in 2days.

Fix:
1) Increase warriors growing of constitution to +2 per level. Make not only knock/stun depends of constitution - also other resists, include other CC/notattack. Rework knight so knights really can do smth kinda soak dmg incoming to chosen ally or dmg incoming to nearby allies.
2) Barbs. Instead of lame "rage of the earth" - "leap" ability 30 range - this still allows mage to meteor (35 range) but avoid of most ambushes and other. Why barbs dmg is only 800/300~3 times bigger, when barb is half hp when even reach target. Make it at least 5 times more. And this only 1vs1 against range units. Leap will make use of barb area also - barb cannot even reach the crowd without death. Make Onslaught REALLY DRASTICALLY INCREASE SPEED - 8sec/50% bonus speed. Barbs r not using 5ons in non-hunt situations. Noone care of enemy barbs in battle - if UM, all enemy see it and even dont care of you. If you thought about unit that can only door fight/easy grind - you made it good, ye, make other working now.
Whirlwind(5) ability is lame too, i easy make 1k x 10 = 10k damage by any typho/LS/TS but only about 50 thorks with aver 100 dmg with whirl so it should be weapon depend or doubled at least.
3) Make "Jail" ability for knights (ultimate 19lvl) so knight restrict moving of range units by circle area or decrease moving speed of range units coming out circle. They need spells soaking dmg incoming to nearby allies.

Also, addin combat points (working only to enemies) only to warriors will be good. Please dont make warriors just fast lvling. That cannot help for increase their population or fill it with noobs.

Make stun/knock/dizzy/jailing a knights specialization. Make mass/area/leap/speed a barb specialization.

That's going to the other extreme....

[trulyem]

If possible fix the following:

Lightning Strike(Warriors)

Option 1: @ lvl 5 100% damage + Dizzy(90% Chance)
Duration of the skill: 5 or less

Option 2: @ lvl 5 100% damage + Slow by 30%(90% Chance)
Duration of the skill: 5 or less

*Lightning Strike deserves an effect from its attack similar to Thunderstrike and Typhoon, It evens the 3 weapon disciplines for warriors.*

Onslaught(Barbarian)

Option 1: @ lvl 5, Same Stats But Mana = 300(before 400)
Option 2: @ lvl 5, Same Stats and Mana(400) but increased Duration = 15 seconds.


*A lvl 17 skill should be useful. It burns alot of mana and by tweaking it a little bit, IT won't be much overpowered but simply balancing the skill."

Please put it into consideration.

[Barya]

Lightning Strike(Warriors)

Ah, i dont think proposed will fix whole spear branch.
There also not working "brain piercing", "impale" and "reapost" spells.

[doppelapfel]

Ah, i dont think proposed will fix whole spear branch.
There also not working "brain piercing", "impale" and "reapost" spells.

Ripost isnt that bad, many warriors kick down their enemy anyway so the casttime doesnt destroy the spell completly. Spells cancelled by brain piercing should get the full cd and impale, well, it has been a stupid spell as long as i play but many warriors used spears. Fixing brain piercing and lightning strike is most important ime.
I like the -30% movement speed but i think the duration should be 15 secs. Knock down is a much better effect and typhoon lasts 8 secs so why should lightning strike last only 5?

[Barya]

Ripost isnt that bad, many warriors kick down their enemy anyway so the casttime doesnt destroy the spell completly. Spells cancelled by brain piercing should get the full cd and impale, well, it has been a stupid spell as long as i play but many warriors used spears. Fixing brain piercing and lightning strike is most important ime.
I like the -30% movement speed but i think the duration should be 15 secs. Knock down is a much better effect and typhoon lasts 8 secs so why should lightning strike last only 5?

In my thought if attacked is near in cast beginning and wasted cast time on reapost - effect should be applied anyway, how aimed player can run out of fight? Thats main problem with many spells, attacked remains stay as fool when target run away. If this, so make other spells be possible to run from - for example warlock's fire ball - if you change position - it missed.

Running away from spell is equal spell interruption (with beetle swarm for ex) - caster loose time. But why its equal? How to run from heavy strike by spear in reality?

[doppelapfel]

In my thought if attacked is near in cast beginning and wasted cast time on reapost - effect should be applied anyway, how aimed player can run out of fight? Thats main problem with many spells, attacked remains stay as fool when target run away. If this, so make other spells be possible to run from - for example warlock's fire ball - if you change position - it missed.
You can interrupt lock spells by running out of range or behind an object.



Running away from spell is equal spell interruption (with beetle swarm for ex) - caster loose time. But why its equal? How to run from heavy strike by spear in reality?

I can imagine that it takes some time to move a big 2 hand spear, can you imagine how heavy they are? It should be possible to evade those hits by moving.

Anyway, i didnt say that i would not agree with buffing it, i just said that it is not useless atm.

[UmarilsStillHere]

How to run from heavy strike by spear in reality?

In the same way as you run away from anything else? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu8uMyFZx9Y)

[Arafails]

In the same way as you run away from anything else? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu8uMyFZx9Y)
Barbarians should get hammocks as a CC device.

[Recoil]

You made my day. lol.

[Barya]

What about "drastically" increasing speed by ons5?
Thats so drastically that even cannot reach hunter.

[Perdunadan]

My intuition says that this update will make Bugnum even more boring and unplayable. Regretfully.

[Recoil]

NGD while you're at it, consider this suggestion http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=64029

[Kittypretty]

Could you edit it now though? since the basis for the oriqinal cc immunity and stacking is no longer true? at least for terror, and its silly if you will keep the feature, yet let one spell disregard the global rule set. SO does this mean that this feature is completely not gonna be implemented?

[ncvr]

I managed to get a near-perfect twister/ivy immobilise chain by counting the DoT ticks of twister and immediately ivying when the duration ended. There was definitely less than half a second between the twister and ivy immobilise, but the target was still immobilised, so I'm quite sure all CC chaining countermeasures were removed.

[Mattdoesrock]

I've done the same tests as Necro; I found 0 immunity to any type of CC.

[dejan]

All I can say: it is good Kyrottimus does not do "balance" for Regnum... :)

[Znurre]

All I can say: it is good Kyrottimus does not do "balance" for Regnum... :)Noone should do balance alone imo. because it's hard to be unbiased, but I would vote for Kyro to join up with an elected Regnum balance team anytime.

[doppelapfel]

Noone should do balance alone imo. because it's hard to be unbiased, but I would vote for Kyro to join up with an elected Regnum balance team anytime.

Sth like that would be awesome. At least one (very experienced) player from every class telling NGD the problems we have atm, possible solutions and suggestions from other players. NGD doesnt seem to have the time to play their game often and read everything in the forum (this should not be a critique, i know that your team isnt that big and that you have many things to do, so this userteam would probably help you a lot).

[Kyrottimus]

All I can say: it is good Kyrottimus does not do "balance" for Regnum... :)

Yeah, I know how archers feel. It would be a real drag for you all to no longer be hugely advantaged over warriors. When I play either archer class (including petless hunter), fighting warriors is ridiculously easy and wholly unfulfilling. Knights are more of a challenge than barbs, who are just gluttons for pain from any archer.

:fsm:

[dejan]

Kyrottimus - it is impossible, and i repeat - IMPOSSIBLE, to ballance the game for every possible situation. The situation you refer to is actually irrelevant. (Yeah, many people will probably shout at me now)

Regnum is a RvR game, and THAT is the context where ballance team should have their focus on.

Kyrottimus, in my humble opinion, completely failed with his proposition because it is obvious he speaks of ballance in PvP cases (and his replies prove this). There will never be ballance of classes for PvP in a RvR game!!! It is impossible, as i wrote at the start...

Sure, if NGD plans to make RO more PvP oriented, then Kyrottimus proposal makes sense...

[ncvr]

Yeah dejan, we get it. It's impossible to balance the game perfectly for just RvR either since that's 10x more complicated than PvP. Just stop derailing this thread.

[Barya]

Yeah, I know how archers feel. It would be a real drag for you all to no longer be hugely advantaged over warriors. When I play either archer class (including petless hunter), fighting warriors is ridiculously easy and wholly unfulfilling. Knights are more of a challenge than barbs, who are just gluttons for pain from any archer.

Soon i saw shaa door down only by rangers. Game is fully switched - all powers barbarian should have - backstabbing invisibility, speed, high critical rate, high hit chance, high attack speed - all have hunter class.

Balance creators, PLEASE TAKE A LOOK on other good balanced games, there is a lot of already existed good solutions, like RTS Warcraft III balance solutions. This even allow be a champion in Warcraft III with ANY RACE. SO GOOD BALANCED.

[doppelapfel]

Soon i saw shaa door down only by rangers. Game is fully switched - all powers barbarian should have - backstabbing invisibility, speed, high critical rate, high hit chance, high attack speed - all have hunter class.

Balance creators, PLEASE TAKE A LOOK on other good balanced games, there is a lot of already existed good solutions, like RTS Warcraft III balance solutions. This even allow be a champion in Warcraft III with ANY RACE. SO GOOD BALANCED.

i dont like your posts about making RO a game like any other. Just accept that its different and that hunters are the guys with camo here for example. I think its possible to balance classes without just copieing those from other games.

[HuntShot]

i dont like your posts about making RO a game like any other. Just accept that its different and that hunters are the guys with camo here for example. I think its possible to balance classes without just copieing those from other games.

Well I normally would agree with you on that point but hes right.
Warcraft III really is a good balanced game and I dont say Regnum isnt(it is:) )
but we could take a very little peek into other games maybe for some ideas I dont know and with this I dont mean like Adding spells which already exist in other games or so, no I just mean look at some few other games just a little bit maybe it will give NGD a good idea for some problems we cant solve.


Just Sayin':thumb_up:

[ncvr]

Warcraft III may be balanced, but it's not "class" balanced. There are no classes, only hero chars. The only balance exists between races, and it's pretty easy to give them all balanced heroes/units. The WC3 concept of balance has absolutely nothing to do with Regnum.

[doppelapfel]

Well I normally would agree with you on that point but hes right.
Warcraft III really is a good balanced game and I dont say Regnum isnt(it is:) )
but we could take a very little peek into other games maybe for some ideas I dont know and with this I dont mean like Adding spells which already exist in other games or so, no I just mean look at some few other games just a little bit maybe it will give NGD a good idea for some problems we cant solve.


Just Sayin':thumb_up:

Of course NGD can take a look at other games and maybe get inspired by them but what he said was to give barbarians camo, this would mean a complet rework of those two classes (and to balance it of the others too) and complains of all hunters (yes they are op but that doesnt mean that they should give their main point, camo, to another class). This may (and will) not be done.

[doppelapfel]

There is a bug on amun that prevents testing new setup with realmmates, you cant use autohits while fighting with a war banner. We tried many reloggs, didnt work.

[Mattdoesrock]

I can confirm this as well.

Spells work, but normal hits do not.

[doppelapfel]

I love the new knight auras and buffs but i fear that war will become endless, zergs facing each other doing not dmg. What about adding a spell that either
-removes all auras from one player (usually conju or knight). No chance because chances suck, instead of that lower mana cost or cooldown by lvling up
or
-makes auras not working for 5 (?) seconds. This would be an areaspell casted directly before rushing and it should remove maybe one random aura. Area increasing by lvling up.

I would give that spell to marks because they dont have a great role in rvr atm.

[ieti]

Mind Squasher, Master of Doom? :sifflote:

[Freduardo]

Mind Squasher? What's that?













:P

[UmarilsStillHere]

Speaking of Mind Squasher, NGD said they changed it in some way, anyone noticed any differance with it?

[metsie]

REMOVE THAT DAMN CAMO AND TROLL OR ELSE :fury:

[Minorian]

I personally think with the change to knight auras, and MC being put back, everything should be quite balanced and able to perform effectively in war.

Although the uber/non-uber geared marks issue is still around, as is the camo-confuse-troll-smashy-no skill hunter setup is still to be fixed.

[Shwish]

Although the uber/non-uber geared marks issue is still around, as is the camo-confuse-troll-smashy-no skill hunter setup is still to be fixed.

im just gona cross my fingers and hope that the reason NGD isnt releasing any info about archers yet is because they have something awesome in store for them thats taking up all thier time

[doppelapfel]

Mind Squasher, Master of Doom? :sifflote:

Mind squasher is a possibility, thats right, but it can be only used by a warrior that gets into the middle oif an enemyzerg and it has only a 50% chance (beside the fact that the blunt tree isnt that attractive atm and not many ppl have that spell because they like the slashing tree more). MS is mostly used against ss and ao1. What i suggested is a spell extra designed against auras.
What about MoD?

[Minorian]

MS is mostly used against ss and ao1.

Not at all true. Once I was fully buffed with GH, MC, Pylon, and ss, and boom! MS. Not fun. At all.

And a spell targeted to auras would destroy knights and conjus, knights would be useless and conjus almost so.

[doppelapfel]

Not at all true. Once I was fully buffed with GH, MC, Pylon, and ss, and boom! MS. Not fun. At all.

And a spell targeted to auras would destroy knights and conjus, knights would be useless and conjus almost so.

Of course this spell should have a long cd and high manacosts if it can remove expensive auras with a long cd. What you described can happen of course but i rarely see it.

Well i think youre right, lets wait and test the new auras in fort wars before doing sth like that.

[ieti]

MoD stops auras. Auras have refresh on given time to check if you are in range. If in same time you are in MoD effect i.e. you have Darkness in fact you will not get aura effect. So in MoD is an ultimate counter to any aura if applied long enough.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

I get MS'ed constantly. Every damn barb, especially knights try to MS me. Most of times it succeeds and it means all your buffs including auras are removed. It is pretty nasty situation after. Still i do not carry so many buffs, but for mage it is enough to loose GH, MC, Pylon and Devotion, and for knight to loose all buffs plus auras. MS will have it's tactical usage again.

[doppelapfel]

MoD takes one of the three aura slots, thats why only 2 povitive ones will work. Ill hav to try mod + splinter wall + static field lol.

[Vroek]

I get MS'ed constantly. Every damn barb, especially knights try to MS me. Most of times it succeeds and it means all your buffs including auras are removed. It is pretty nasty situation after. Still i do not carry so many buffs, but for mage it is enough to loose GH, MC, Pylon and Devotion, and for knight to loose all buffs plus auras. MS will have it's tactical usage again.

Im not sure how Ms works, NGD removed the possibility dispel Mod (and Static field).
If it effect auras i presume it only auras that 'effect the caster' it be strange if it was just offensive auras that was not MSable.

[e30G]

Since cast speed is being changed and major balance sweeps are on the way, I'd like to propose the following changes:


Slash all mage spell cast times by 40%
Change Arcane Devotion duration to 10 seconds. Make it instant cast and retain its cooldown. Values may need to be tweaked. If current cast speed bonus is to be retained, add a +100% mana cost to spells casted under Devotion.


What this does is make Arcane Devotion a performance boost buff for critical situations and skillful timing of this spell will reward good players. The overall reduction in cast time for spells will make mages still playable without it.

Overall I think changes should be made so that classes are less buff reliant to function in war. This means improvement of base class performance so most of the current class requisite performance "prebuffs" will be for quick-burst performance boosts.

This goes in-line with Enio's suggestion to lower Unstoppable Madness' cast time, duration and cooldown to be more of a anticipatory/reaction spell.

[Raideniza]

What this does is make Arcane Devotion a performance boost buff for critical situations and skillful timing of this spell will reward good players. The overall reduction in cast time for spells will make mages still playable without it.

What this does is everyone casting arcane devotion right before area chain, starting with terror ofc.

[e30G]

What this does is everyone casting arcane devotion right before area chain, starting with terror ofc.

Making them prime targets for every other marksmen in the vicinity.

[_Enio_]

[...]
You must spread some rep...
Very very interesting idea.

[AntibioTsu]

Making them prime targets for every other marksmen in the vicinity.

But then again, Arcane Projection kinda has the same effect.

[doppelapfel]

I fear that this is a too hard nerf for locks (the changes on amun are perfect ime, only cd for cancelled spells is missing) and players will get a too big benefit from cs items again:

Sultars Terror
Old casting time: 3s
New casting time: 3s*0,6=1,8s

Casting time with 21%cs boni=1,8s/1,21=1,48 seconds
so 0,32 seconds less than without cs gear

Old benefit from 21% cs with 1,8s castingtime:
1,8*0,79=1,422
0,378 seconds less with uber gear

This would mean CS gear gives locks nearly the same bonus over players with normal gear as in the current version on the live servers. :thumb_down:

NGDs decision to change the cs system is awesome in my eyes, leave arcane devotion and the normal castspeed as they are.

The only good point i can see is that locks dont have to rely on a single spell so much (which can be taken away by ms or not casted again cause of confuse or darkness) and the reduction of casting times would help conjus a lot, because many of them dont use arcane devotion and would have a great improvement without losing sth. I dont like this anyway.


Edit: I have decided to also write down the benefit you get from 21% cs with lvl 5 devotion, to show how much gear gives now (in the current version on amun locks will still use devotion, most at lvl 5):

Without cs gear:
1,8/2=0,9

with cs gear:
1,8/2,21=0,814...
so only 0,086... anything

With the 3 seconds casting time:
Without uber gear:
3/2=1,5

With:
3/2,21=1,357...
so 0,143... difference (compare that with 0,32).

[e30G]

But then again, Arcane Projection kinda has the same effect.

But this time you are limited to 10 seconds (provided you casted projection) to get into position and fire off a Terror. Any CC cast on you will be enough to nullify devotion.

For reference, based on my suggestion, you can cast Terror at 1.8 seconds unbuffed without cast speed gear. With the current values of Arcane Devotion you can get to cast it as fast as 0.9 second but that would come with a +100% mana cost on the spell. So a Terror under Arcane Devotion will be cast really fast, but will cost the warlock 1000 mana.

In comparison, the current (and Amun devotion) will let you cast at 1.5 seconds on level 5. However you need to keep buffed up in order to do so. Once you lose your buff, it's back to 3.0 for you. So this isn't really a nerf, rather a change in gameplay tactics and add a new level of skill for mage gameplay.

This would mean CS gear gives locks nearly the same bonus over players with normal gear as in the current version on the live servers. :thumb_down:

You have been too spoiled by cast speed items. Making items less influential in combat is a good move.

The only good point i can see is that locks dont have to rely on a single spell so much (which can be taken away by ms or not casted again cause of confuse or darkness) and the reduction of casting times would help conjus a lot, because many of them dont use arcane devotion and would have a great improvement without losing sth. I dont like this anyway.

Many Conjurers still rely on Devotion. The new Divine Healing spell makes Arcane Devotion more important for Conjurers now if they plan to use it with any sort of effectiveness.

A change to Arcane Devotion will allow warriors to cope better with Mage CC chains, while making mages slightly less susceptible to spells such as Mind Squash, Darkness and Confuse.

The 40% cast time reduction is more than enough IMO. When I still played my lock I only had Arcane Devotion 4 and it was well enough for me.

[doppelapfel]

You have been too spoiled by cast speed items. Making items less influential in combat is a good move.
You got me wrong, i said youre suggestion makes the influence of cs items nearly as high as it is on the live servers atm, the version on amun now makes them much less usefull. Did you read the numbers i posted?

[Minorian]

I think that there should be next to no cs improvements. Ill be flamed from locks all around, so Ill explain my reasoning.

Warlocks are the largest DPS machine in the game. There is no question about it, they out DPS barbarians by alot. Melee attackers must be in melee range, which is quite rare these days, whereas locks can be 25-30+m away to unleash the most powerful attacks in the game. They also have some of the best CC's in the game, being able to completely drain a warriors mana before they can reach them, and also being able to delay that impact by a very long time. And when they get close, if MoD is put up, it's just an unfair fight.

Also, with energy barrier, life sucking abilities, and loads of CC's, locks become quite resilient.

So, isn't it only natural they should have a very long (and risky) cast time if they are going to decide a large part of the battle?

[e30G]

You got me wrong, i said youre suggestion makes the influence of cs items nearly as high as it is on the live servers atm, the version on amun now makes them much less usefull. Did you read the numbers i posted?

Sorry I misunderstood your previous post. It was 1:30am when I read it.

I get what you mean about how CS items will affect such a system, but also note a new option will be available to players with no CS gear.

Since Arcane Devotion will be a buff that gives a burst of cast speed, you can time this on critical spells and gain an advantage over someone who has CS gear over a short period of time. With such a system, a player with regular items has at least some hope of outcasting players with uber items if they time the buff just right.

Right now, your only choice is to buff up as high Devotion as you can all the time and hope your items are also better than his.

[ice_zero_cool]

I can confirm this as well.

Spells work, but normal hits do not.

nah, they only don't work with ARCHERS and MAGES. Warrior's autohits are working quite well :D

[doppelapfel]

Sorry I misunderstood your previous post. It was 1:30am when I read it.

I get what you mean about how CS items will affect such a system, but also note a new option will be available to players with no CS gear.

Since Arcane Devotion will be a buff that gives a burst of cast speed, you can time this on critical spells and gain an advantage over someone who has CS gear over a short period of time. With such a system, a player with regular items has at least some hope of outcasting players with uber items if they time the buff just right.

Right now, your only choice is to buff up as high Devotion as you can all the time and hope your items are also better than his.

Thats not right, make some tests on amun. Lock pvps need much more skill now with less effective cs items and new gcds. And: you cant counter good cs items with devotion if the one with the items can have the same spell.

i like the idea to make ppl use more different spells and setups but this wont work that way.