Balance Update, First real iteration on AMUN!

[chilko]

Hello everyone!

We have been working like crazy.
Everything that we look into has a nastier bug or conceptual problem below :).
Here is the latest report of the stuff you can try NOW on AMUN (Only a PART of what we are working on for the upcoming update)

GENERAL COMBAT MECHANICS

Removed fixed iterations for combat and changed to a weapon charge and weapon cool-down time model.

This means:


No more waiting for the next swing iteration when engaging into attack range.
Almost no more phantom swings (they should only appear on nasty network scenarios)
Charge time (which is the time you have to wait standing) depends on weapon's speed.
no charge time for warriors (as they can attack while moving)
no more cheating attack speed by switching from and to combat mode.


Note: charge time is not definitive yet.

All of this coped with new network code and lag compensation should make all of Regnum feel more real-time for players with all kinds of pings :)

We also changed from a Casting time to a casting speed model, for both normal attacks and spells.
Arcane devotion has been increased by 2 to cope with this new non-linear model. Other speed altering spells will be adjusted like this soon.
Some bugs with the armors has been fixed so some items will have better protection. Now the tunics also protect the legs.

MAP

Afer over 160 man hours our map editor has revived!!!
We have already uploaded to AMUN a fix to the access of Algaros Fort.
More changes like this are coming to balance (as intended) the distance between certain Forts, Altars in some areas of the War Zone (specially for Alsius)

SPELLS

We have tweaked and changed a lot of spells some Auras changed into Area spells for better server performance and to allow caster more flexibility (now a knight will be able to go and attack after assisting his team-mates)
Many other spells are being changed.
As discussed This is the list Changes to spells so far (more are comming and archers have not been touched yet).

Mages:


Silence: Duration reduced to 3 segs and progression of middle level was adjusted.

Splinter wall: This power has been changed from Aura to an Area, Now it works as a constant Damage.
The damage values and duration have been modified.

Time master: Chances added from level 1 to 5 in terms of progresion (70, 75, 80, 90, 100%) and duration (4, 6,
8, 10, 12 seg.).


Conjurer:


Major healing: This power has been changed from Aura to an Area, Now it works as a constant healing to the allies in the area when casted.
Duration of the power has been set at 30 seg.
Power level progression fom 1 to 5 is: 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 pts.

Tremor: Chances have been enhanced from 1 to 5 in terms of progresion (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%) and duration 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 seg.


Warlok:


Sultar´s terror: Chances have been added from level 1 to 5 in terms of progresion (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%). Damage bell reduced for Splash damage.
It's a linear equation of distance from 100% at the target to 35% at the end of the area (this is not new, it just was 100% to 80% before - ridiculous-).

Frozen Storm: Enhanced chances from levels 1 to 5 in terms of progresion (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%).


Warriors:


Typhoon: Enhanced chances from level 1 to 4 (50, 60, 70, 80%) and reduced at level 5 (90%).

Mind squasher: A bug has been corrected that might prevent this spell to work as intended

Thunder strike: Adjusted Stun Chances from level 1 to 5 (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%).

Martial reflexes: A bug has been corrected that might prevent this spell to work as intended


Knights:


Heroic presence: Aura has been reduced to 6 (in RADIUS) mts for performance reasons (before: 10 mts.).

Shield wall: This power has been changed from Aura to an Area, Now it works as a buff in a 360° Area. Mana cost reduced in all levels and Cooldown increased

Stars shield: This power has been changed from Aura to an Area, Now it works as a buff in a 360° Area. Mana cost reduced in all levels and Cooldown decreased

Deflecting barrier: The area has been increased to 360°


Barbarians:

Thirst for blood: It can be cast regardless of the weapon round.

Rage of the earth: Chance of knock down progression changed from levels 1 to 5 (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%).


AS YOU KNOW: THIS IS A PRELIMINARY VERSION, THINGS MIGHT CHANGE BEFORE WE RELEASE IT
AND THERE IS MORE WORK TO BE DONE (LIKE WITH ARCHERS)

Constructive criticism is the only way to help us make Regnum a better game.
Please it out try out and comment in this thread.

[Malevolence]

Looking good. Also I like the charge time omit for warriors.

[Znurre]

This will most probably become the best update in a long, long time.
Thanks NGD.

The only thing I am not totally sure about is the non 100% chance of typhoon and thunder strike on lvl 5, as I don't think the control effects of them are the problem but rather the damage.
I would prefer to have them 100% chance on all levels, and only having the damage and duration increase by level.

[TheMessenger]

Very Nice NGD :)

+1

[Kittypretty]

I have a question because I cant test and well, I am not sure how Greater Healing works now.

Is it like a mass regen to those in area, and then you can run away from area and still be affected? (both caster and targets of spell) and I assume that those not in range, will not be affected regardless is they enter the radius after the cast, as its an area now.

Is this correct in how im thinking..or is it different?

And for algaros, so you cant run up the side of the mtn now? Im hoping so.

Time master,..well ity was fine as is..but i guess its not too bad (already had many that resisted it due to cc's like um and defensive stance i think..so it barely worked as is anyways)

Can you look at brain piercing too? some time :)

the cast speed im not to hot on..but as i havent tried it (though i know the concept change..i have yet to know how this will affect me, statistic wise. math was never my best subject.

[_Arwen_]

I have a question because I cant test and well, I am not sure how Greater Healing works now.

Is it like a mass regen to those in area, and then you can run away from area and still be affected? (both caster and targets of spell) and I assume that those not in range, will not be affected regardless is they enter the radius after the cast, as its an area now.

Is this correct in how im thinking..or is it different?

Right now on amun, you cast it once and everyone within area 10 of you gets a regen for 30 seconds.

So yes you can move away from conjurer after that and you will not lose GH. However if you're out of range of the conjurer when she casts GH you can't simply move closer and get it like GH works now.

[Ulti19]

I just had a look at the knight auras and can say that I think you made an awesome choice!

Now shield wall can be cast as area and deflecting barrier has range again and with these two alone one knight can reduce massive damage from ranged especially. Having these two active again can create a mini ao1 for an entire army ^^ And it's great that shield wall and star shield are now areas because now the 3 aura limit need not apply to them :D Uber job! It's like you guys finally gave back knights their shields!

One question though, does shield wall and star shield now affect the casting knight as well since they are ae's?


Edited part : I mentioned this before but want to bring it up again. Did you guys do anything to graphics or memory because when I play the live version of Regnum now I have about 10-15 more fps than on the test server. Also on the test server everyone is pink on my screen lol and when there are alot of people in a given area I lose enormous fps, this does not happen in current version however.

And did you guys reduce the spear range? Because I have to be much closer to a monster in order to attack it now, just something i noticed.

[Gytha_Ogg]

Right now on amun, you cast it once and everyone within area 10 of you gets a regen for 30 seconds.

Does it work as a pre-buff if somebody in range has no damage yet?

[TheMessenger]

shield bash also has a fixed range of 2 (:D)

[_Arwen_]

Does it work as a pre-buff if somebody in range has no damage yet?

It appears to, at least they get the regen ally animation at their feet. I didn't pay attention to see if it started healing them when they got damaged though.

Also, it doesn't work on the caster right now however I believe chilko said this was a bug so it should keep that property as well.

[NotScias]

Even if most of these changes are welcome, i'm very unpleased by this :

Major healing: This power has been changed from Aura to an Area, Now it works as a constant healing to the allies in the area when casted.
Duration of the power has been set at 30 seg.
Power level progression fom 1 to 5 is: 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 pts.

This is no more than a HUGE nerf for Greater Healing.

The Current GH heals for +40 hp per second for 60 seconds (=2400 hp), the new one does only +30 hp for 30 seconds (=900 hp) !
And the worst thing, is that it doesn't affect the caster anymore !! And it's probably not stackable anymore since it's an area buff and not an aura...

I agree about making GH as area-buff to save performance and auras slots but why also nerfing this spell to hell damnit ? Why the hell do you want to nerf Conjurers again ? You already massacred Mana Communion by cutting its regen power by 2, now it's the turn of GH to be rendered to the lameness... Do you really think that nerfing Conjurers support spells again will bring them back ? I don't think so, and the previous Conju nerves showed it.

Please, bring back GH to its old values and make it affect the caster again, because now you're just about to destroy the best (and only one) Conjurer aura...

I was planning to go back to the Conjurer after Confuse nerf, but really if it stays like this, I don't think I will play it ever again.

[Sem10n]

It'll be great! Time to test it :)

[Syrtisa]

omg right now i am not quite sure: does he he said it is a bug that is not affecting caster or does he said that it was a bug that it affected before.

tm got 70% of succes...

amun experience is not pleasnt to conjus now... defenceless charakter, bearly meening to ppl around... frankly dont like it :(

some of ppl said R.I.P conjus :(

[Comp]

So am I reading the modifications right...no initial changes applied for archer classes??

[TheMessenger]

omg right now i am not quite sure: does he he said it is a bug that is not affecting caster or does he said that it was a bug that it affected before.

tm got 70% of succes...

amun experience is not pleasnt to conjus now... defenceless charakter, bearly meening to ppl around... frankly dont like it :(

some of ppl said R.I.P conjus :(

Why are ppl complaining about Time master nerf? because now they wont be able to run away on horse as much? or get out of a situation where 6 ppl are attacking them?

I believe Chilko said that it is a bug that it does not affect the caster now. And how is amun experience bad for conjs? Only thing that is bad for them is the GH nerf which Im sure will be changed back. Most the changes were toward Warju bitchs

[doppelapfel]

I love it.
I think you should reduce terrors range to 30m so it can be cancelled by meteor and take a look at the log, it doesnt work correctly.

[TheMessenger]

I love it.
I think you should reduce terrors range to 30m so it can be cancelled by meteor and take a look at the log, it doesnt work correctly.

I think the nerfed dmg was enough...257 on lvl 5 xD

[Gideon_Slack]

Right now on amun, you cast it once and everyone within area 10 of you gets a regen for 30 seconds.

So yes you can move away from conjurer after that and you will not lose GH. However if you're out of range of the conjurer when she casts GH you can't simply move closer and get it like GH works now.

Will this change the way conjus heal when defending a fort? (Or am I wrong?)

Generally, you have a conju waiting inside behind the door, with GH active as an aura. People come in periodically and get healed.

I guess now the conju will have to wait until there are a few people ready to be healed before it is cast.

[Froste]

Keep in mind this stuff is still preliminary, don't waste energy getting upset about things just yet since it will most likely change several times. Once it gets closer to being finished then you can panic, but it's a little too soon for harsh words at the current moment.

[doppelapfel]

I think the nerfed dmg was enough...257 on lvl 5 xD

Didnt test that yet, only on persons i focussed.

Imo Greater healing should get +800 hp (maybe a bit more) instant and the constant 900, this would be ok. Or less cd, 60 secs.

[_Arwen_]

Will this change the way conjus heal when defending a fort? (Or am I wrong?)

Generally, you have a conju waiting inside behind the door, with GH active as an aura. People come in periodically and get healed.

I guess now the conju will have to wait until there are a few people ready to be healed before it is cast.

You're absolutely correct. With the new GH conjurers will cast on our targets before they go outside the fort since thats when you'll have the most in your range. This way they'll be healed for the next 30 seconds. At least that is how I would use it.

[Recoil]

New great healing should
a) work on caster
b) stack with other greater healings

Position bug is insane

People are warping(teleporting,jumping) around.

Knight aura effects get stuck and dont go after duration. MoD stucks too.

[Gourmandine]

I suggest you "enhance" healings too. Why not a 50% chance of healing on heal ally lvl1, 60% at lvl 2 etc.....

Major healing: This power has been changed from Aura to an Area, Now it works as a constant healing to the allies in the area when casted.
Duration of the power has been set at 30 seg.
Power level progression fom 1 to 5 is: 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 pts.

Tremor: Chances have been enhanced from 1 to 5 in terms of progresion (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%) and duration 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 seg.
[/LIST]


The actual behavior of greater healing force other players to stay near us. Now they no more need to. We're already supposed (thanks to your last updates) to stay in fort and be healing bots. Now, the last spell that require us to be "active" will be MP ,except for players who accept to waste enough point in staff mastery to get the only support spell you already nerfed so much in this discipline. If you really want to remove one of our aura, remove this one.
This change to tremor is a good idea too, it's obvious reducing its range wasn't enough. Pure support conjurer still had too much chance to rush and disable the entire enemy's army with their only "offensive" spell.




Silence: Duration reduced to 3 segs and progression of middle level was adjusted.

Splinter wall: This power has been changed from Aura to an Area, Now it works as a constant Damage.
The damage values and duration have been modified.

Time master: Chances added from level 1 to 5 in terms of progresion (70, 75, 80, 90, 100%) and duration (4, 6,
8, 10, 12 seg.).



Splinter wall could be used as a defensive spell against lower levels, now it no more can as it doesn't remain around the conju.
About other changes, you already removed at lot of the fun in playing support, could we at least keep a few chance to get fun in the arena?

Keep in mind this stuff is still preliminary, don't waste energy getting upset about things just yet since it will most likely change several times. Once it gets closer to being finished then you can panic, but it's a little too soon for harsh words at the current moment.
Sorry but last time I thought this way and the next time I connected it was already on live servers.

[Kyrottimus]

This will most probably become the best update in a long, long time.
Thanks NGD.

The only thing I am not totally sure about is the non 100% chance of typhoon and thunder strike on lvl 5, as I don't think the control effects of them are the problem but rather the damage.
I would prefer to have them 100% chance on all levels, and only having the damage and duration increase by level.

+1

Spells like Typhoon and so forth get resisted a ton as it is. Why add another level of failure when warriors already get resisted so much already?

But everything else looks great. Network code, phantom swings, combat mechanics and casting/buffing speed/cycles are seemingly more fluid for warriors.

:)

[Klutu]

Everything looks awesome!

I never used Typhoon & Thunder anyways so i can't say i care :P

Rage of the Earth - since your reviewing it why not increase it's Arc a bit.. I find it's a Terribly small area to make it effective (players with high ping & lag)

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

all these changes so far are awesome for me, though i know most people will not share my opinions i can buff my allies and not worry about breaking the 3 aura limit i can recieve healing and still be flexible about my role without having to have a personal conju. and i dont have to worry too much about being Area cc'd to a bloody pulp meaning barbs will have to use E-wave and other minor areas too. Hopefully this will also stop "knarbs" as their areas can be even more minimally effective it may force them to actually play as the class was meant to be played.

[ncvr]

Gourmandine, it will be ridiculous to set healing spells as a chance on heal. So far it is my first time seeing that in an mmo. :eek:
What about low level healers? They won't have enough points for good healing and defensinve buffs.
I believe it was sarcasm.

But overall, the changes look good. I think greater healing might be a little too ineffective, but we'll see.

[Zordak]

I believe it was sarcasm.

But overall, the changes look good. I think greater healing might be a little too ineffective, but we'll see.

It will be a lot less effective. Currently greater heals are stackable, a constant spell effect is not. + the healing effect per tick is reduced.
The only advantage i see at all is that ppl do not have to run around bunched up for an enemy area all the time.

I have not checked myself on amun, but if it doesnt work on the caster anymore, effect and duration are reduced, will at least the mana cost be adjusted? Drastically? Because the spell is pretty much castrated now.

Also im waiting for an encouragement to play a conjurer, right now i dont see that. At all.

Z.

[_Enio_]

uh oh. Knight buffs will be pretty op when they will be easy to use like that.
How long does db and heroic buffs last on amun?

[Mattdoesrock]

Deflecting Barrier and Heroic are still Auras.

[Arkenion]

Why do you make lvl 5 terrror 90 percent??
Why not just 100? I don't get it! It's not like the game is enough luck-based already, no, now even a simple terror is based on luck...

I know 10% isn't much, but it'll occur and appear bugged all the time, like SotW etc...

[UmarilsStillHere]

uh oh. Knight buffs will be pretty op when they will be easy to use like that.
How long does db and heroic buffs last on amun?

Knights and Op in the same sentence, never thaught Id see that. Dont think they will be overpowered but hopfully will have a more significant effect in war now.

Also the global cooldowns I see are rated as very short, short, normal etc though they seem to all be the same cool time, I guess its not fully implemented yet.

Positions are also a mess for me.

Note: Visual bug (I assume) on Umaril my Arcane Devotion reads 'cast speed +100%' :p

[Nekoko]

Even if most of these changes are welcome, i'm very unpleased by this :



This is no more than a HUGE nerf for Greater Healing.

The Current GH heals for +40 hp per second for 60 seconds (=2400 hp), the new one does only +30 hp for 30 seconds (=900 hp) !
And the worst thing, is that it doesn't affect the caster anymore !! And it's probably not stackable anymore since it's an area buff and not an aura..

I kinda have to agree the duration for the new greater healing needs to be made so the overall heal amount a person gets is close to the old one. Either longer duration with the same amount per tick or a higher amount per tick and less ticks. Whatever gets around 2400hp again would be great. Other than this I love all the changes great work guys.

[Mikan]

It would be nice of the new area buffs were reduced to 90-120 secs cooldown, 180 is just way too much for 30 secs.

[w_larsen]

concerning greater healing i can see two scenarios when attacking fort door, depending on how it will be implemented. (i am not saying that it will be like this, its just possible scenarios)

1) gh doesnt affect caster.
then it will probably work out of sanctuary, pushing conjurers into sorcery tree, because let's face it - pylons alone isnt going to sustain area avalanche. and conjurers without steel skin are too fragile to stay at door with just pylons on, especially if there isnt many pylons or they are just casted.

that means that door bashers probably can expect no pylons at door some times, because conjurers will not be able to sustain the possible damage of area rush, resolving to use sanctuary to approach door and cast gh.

2) gh affects caster.
conjurers might resolve just to stay back, because they wont be sure if they can time the area rush with gh, and probably cant sustain the rush with just pylons on as mentioned in first scenario.

of course steel skin is going to help a bit, but it has rather big manacost and cooldown, meaning that it isnt availible at all times. still, with new proposed greater healing maxed sorcery is a must, if conjurer wants to operate at door.


another question of new "aura-areas" is - will they work like current such spells, like "off with their heads", meaning that visible reward for such area will be just from first kill? further more preventing knights to level up with using auras?

[Kaschka]

i don't understand why mana phylon hasn't been nerfed/altered.
its the main reason for people standing together.
And i guess it is very much work for the server to calculate how strong the barrier is. manaphylons are worse than greater healing and therefor should be altered.

[Raely]

About GH i would suggest to heal a fixed amount of health instantly (like 900 hps + healing over time), since it can't be stacked anymore. And maybe lower the cooldown to 120 secs.

Other changes seems pretty good, knight buffs + material wall is going to be awesome. :D

[ice_zero_cool]

Note: Visual bug (I assume) on Umaril my Arcane Devotion reads 'cast speed +100%' :p

nah, that's correct I think...


We also changed from a Casting time to a casting speed model, for both normal attacks and spells.
Arcane devotion has been increased by 2 to cope with this new non-linear model. Other speed altering spells will be adjusted like this soon.
Some bugs with the armors has been fixed so some items will have better protection. Now the tunics also protect the legs.

[Pimousse]

Greater heal seems not enough effective, but i haven't test it.

About Typhoon and thunder strike. Have you ever tried in a fort war for example ? There is already many resists, the reason why i don't use it. So in addition to a chance to be successfull, typhoon and thunder strike will be useless.

Except if ...
PVE:


Fix in the evasion/resistance system for normal and challenging creatures


... apply to players.

[j4np0l]

....

I think this would be a great update!!

But I'll keep dying in the hands of hunters without hitting them even once (If they know how to hit and run).

/me is thinking about grinding a knight

P.D: I am glad to hear that the map editor works now, so this means you'll move Eferias??

[MalaTempora]

love NGD path now...

continue this way guys!!!

[doppelapfel]

Knights and Op in the same sentence, never thaught Id see that. Dont think they will be overpowered but hopfully will have a more significant effect in war now.

Also the global cooldowns I see are rated as very short, short, normal etc though they seem to all be the same cool time, I guess its not fully implemented yet.

Positions are also a mess for me.

Note: Visual bug (I assume) on Umaril my Arcane Devotion reads 'cast speed +100%' :p

I dont think that he meant knights would become op, just the auras/areabuffs. Imagine 2 zergs both with -40%ranged dmg, 40% dmg resist, +100% armor mana pylon and heals, fight might never end cause nobody does any dmg. Well see whether this will happen.

Edit: Thought about it again, maybe the effect of shield wall and star shield should end when the knight dies, so to kill a zerg you would have to take down the knights first and they could act like real tanks (atm nobody attacks a knight first, the worst thing they can do is kickin you down).

[Mikan]

Before implementing armor changes on live servers, I'd recommend you to look at my earlier post (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1082476&postcount=36), because mages will need a way to raise their damage slightly to account the overall more effective armor that you are implementing. They've already been having trouble with protections for a long time on many spells, so let's try not to make it any worse.

Essentially what I suggested is:
- Give all direct damage spells Weapon damage +50/100% (and keep the error margin high)
- Give all damage over time spells Weapon damage +30%
- Make staff speed affect cast time so that mages must chose between either lower cast time or higher damage

As I said on IRC, there must be more incentive for mages to chose their gears instead of just being able to use any staff they want with an appropriate bonus of their chosing. Archers and warriors do not have that benefit.

Kind regards.

[_Enio_]

oups i mixed something up then. Db and heroic staying auras is fine. (If it was a long lasting area buff it would not)

[Pnarpa]

Why do you make lvl 5 terrror 90 percent??
Why not just 100? I don't get it! It's not like the game is enough luck-based already, no, now even a simple terror is based on luck...

I know 10% isn't much, but it'll occur and appear bugged all the time, like SotW etc...

I'm already experimenting with dropping terror. Why use a spell when you're not entirely sure it will work anyway.

[BigManOnCampus]

Position bug is insane

People are warping(teleporting,jumping) around..

I did not experience this at all, In fact when Chilko was on amun last night teleporting everyone to the same spot for fights, I was getting the smoothest warrior fighting experience I've ever had in this game. It was clear when someone I was chasing was in range, and I would actually hit them as opposed to phantom swing if I appeared to be in range on my client. Previously I would appear in range and either never swing or occasionally phantom swing because according to the server I wasn't in range. Now client positioning is much closer to reality, imo.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I'm already experimenting with dropping terror. Why use a spell when you're not entirely sure it will work anyway.

You want to drop terror because of a 10% fail rate on the knockdown? Your kidding right?

Look at all the warriors who use MS knowing its debuff has a 50% fail rate, or all the conjus using dispell/mass dispell regardless of its fail rates in the lower levels (not all can afford to level it to 5) barbs using Um, knights using defensive stance, conjus using mind blank ...

Seriously 90% is a lot, its not a big deal.

As with Lumi my positioning is a mess, landing a hit on a moving player (or even a standing one) is rare for me on Amun.

[Pnarpa]

You want to drop terror because of a 10% fail rate on the knockdown? Your kidding right?

Look at all the warriors who use MS knowing its debuff has a 50% fail rate, or all the conjus using dispell/mass dispell regardless of its fail rates in the lower levels (not all can afford to level it to 5) barbs using Um, knights using defensive stance, conjus using mind blank ...

Seriously 90% is a lot, its not a big deal.

As with Lumi my positioning is a mess, landing a hit on a moving player (or even a standing one) is rare for me on Amun.

I just need to be sure it will work. That's just MY opinion.

Besides, it's rather interesting going without terror. Sometimes it feels like a default setup; "Okay... new setup. First Arcania up to 19 and terror to 5".

[Dannboy]

You want to drop terror because of a 10% fail rate on the knockdown? Your kidding right?

Look at all the warriors who use MS knowing its debuff has a 50% fail rate, or all the conjus using dispell/mass dispell regardless of its fail rates in the lower levels (not all can afford to level it to 5) barbs using Um, knights using defensive stance, conjus using mind blank ...

Seriously 90% is a lot, its not a big deal.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Umaril again.
Herp derp -.-

[cokolwiek]

since auras gone be fixed (what im personaly happy about)
defence combos shoud be nerfed so Frenzy + Caution and
Acrobatic + Evasive Tactics

[cokolwiek]

You want to drop terror because of a 10% fail rate on the knockdown? Your kidding right?

Look at all the warriors who use MS knowing its debuff has a 50% fail rate, or all the conjus using dispell/mass dispell regardless of its fail rates in the lower levels (not all can afford to level it to 5) barbs using Um, knights using defensive stance, conjus using mind blank ...

Seriously 90% is a lot, its not a big deal.

As with Lumi my positioning is a mess, landing a hit on a moving player (or even a standing one) is rare for me on Amun.

50% Lmao
idk what succse rate MS has in real but its NOT 50%

and WTH are you doing?
droping terror is in the interest of us all

ppl will use more warriors so less range vs range war
and less fast gangs wins

[ncvr]

I just need to be sure it will work. That's just MY opinion.

Besides, it's rather interesting going without terror. Sometimes it feels like a default setup; "Okay... new setup. First Arcania up to 19 and terror to 5".
It's a goddamn area. You'd only need a 100% chance if you planned on using it in 1v1.

[BigManOnCampus]

Since Chilko was nice enough to give us all the info on the balance update in this thread, please dont turn it into a "your tactics must suck, you're doing it wrong" thread. I'd rather have this thread remain open, so please ignore the people who say things that sound absurd.

[MalaTempora]

I just need to be sure it will work. That's just MY opinion.

Besides, it's rather interesting going without terror. Sometimes it feels like a default setup; "Okay... new setup. First Arcania up to 19 and terror to 5".

90% is a good measure of "sure" in a game... you have to let some chances
to other...

Kick usually is resisted so much, as ms(5) and feint and south cross and any
other..

really.. 90% is a real good chances

[Pnarpa]

Euh... I'm sorry I expressed my opinion?

[MalaTempora]

Euh... I'm sorry I expressed my opinion?

mmm you haven't to be sorry, but probably your opinion (valid like mine.. :D) is not so shareable with others that are not warlocks..

appear that ppl who play the most OP classes (hunters and with a real minor minor degrees lock) hardly find themself OP... and try with all their force to
keep the things as is now, this is clear, but honestly can you explain why:
- with my lvl 25 lock i can EASILY KILL LVL 50 MOBS???
- with my lvl 50 knight i have to swet to do it..

[Pnarpa]

I'm actually pro nerfing terror and I know locks are overpowered. But I guess saying you're going to drop a spell, because you don't like chance spells is just weird for people.

[Isemon]

i agree with scias, and all the one saying that this will be a HUGE nerf to GH, and yea i'd rather see it as a instant heal: something like 900 hp and a little regenaration will be good, and an adjusted mana cost and cd. If you do not want to short the cd, well then make it powerfull something like 1500 hp and regen, so we have a total of 2400 hp, that is what is giving now this spell.
Or if you want make it last 30 sec, well make it 80+ regen, so it has the same result of 2400 hp of the old greater healer. Otherwise leave it as it was before.

Also, i experienced bad movements positioning that is worse than ever, animation not showing at all, and log is bugged not showing half of the spell someone is using on you.

[j4np0l]

I'm actually pro nerfing terror and I know locks are overpowered. But I guess saying you're going to drop a spell, because you don't like chance spells is just weird for people.
I think no one is going to drop terror only because of the 90% chance :S

Myabe for PvP, but balance is RvR oriented

[UmarilsStillHere]

50% Lmao
idk what succse rate MS has in real but its NOT 50%


Go look it up, its supposed to be 50% and seems like that to me, though NGD have said they have changed it so it works as it should, if that means it was working to much or not enough I honestly have no idea. To me it always seemed a fairy even chance.

Yes terror in its current form Im all to happy to be rid of, but the new one with reduced knock chance and less spash damage sounds nicely balanced, I just dont want to see people freak out and drop a perfectly good spell just because its no longer uber.

Will be interesting to see what kind of builds warlocks come up with if they do drop terror though. I do agree that arcana 19/Sultar 5 is as much a 'default' build as Wc19/onsl5 used to be on barbs. If we start seeing locks dropping arcania to 15 (or altogether) it would make for a nice change of pace.

[BigManOnCampus]

What you people who are complaining about the apparent nerf to GH are failing to realize is that armor now helps a LOT more. You wont need as much healing.

[BigManOnCampus]

Go look it up, its supposed to be 50%


It is 50% after:
1) resistance check
2) evade check
3) block check

In reality, the chance you'll actually fully debuff someone with MS is probably closer to 30-35%

[Shwish]

the changes all sound good to me. knights are finally getting their rightfully deserved due, but I'm a bit concerned about what this would mean for the marksman class seeing that there's gona be no improvement to them



EDIT: why did someone *cough Lumi* give me negative karma for this post with this tagged onto it:

Skills don't get evaded, only resisted or blocked.

im aware of this and it has nothing to do with my post

[UmarilsStillHere]

With improvements to armour all around I will be interested to see how med/fast marks/hunter/knight weapons manage, most were already borderline ineffective vs buffed targets.

In regards to MS I was talking about just the spells function of debuffing being 50% assuming the spell had already landed, as the point was to show people still use % chance spells far lower than the 90% of Sultar. Though yes in acctual combat all spells are subject to blocking and resistance, which reduces the chance of them landing in the first place, obviously.

[Recoil]

Skills don't get evaded, only resisted or blocked.

[Anyriand]

I can't say I don't like GH until I've actually tried it...but doesn't it seem like a huge nerf??

Reducing duration to half, not afecting the caster, +30hp on lvl 5? I'm sorry I don't like it at all. It being an area instead of an aura I can deal with, as it's gonna avoid it being spammed in all the wrong occasions, but why the nerf?

Conjurers don't need any more of those, and RO doesn't need any more warjurers...I'm afraid this will just ruin the only decent support spell conjurers still had.

I was looking forward to this update, I thought NGD's priorities were to improve warriors gameplay and deal with OP classes such as locks and hunters...Conjurers are not OP and don't need nerfing! :huh:

[Isemon]

Ofc, probably after this update conjurers will be less and less again if NGD will put such big nerf, NGD you want more warriors? there are a lot of spells to improve/fix in warriors discipline, you should focus on those.

Also nerf after nerf on the class that help the others to stay alive won't help warriors at all, since they get support from conjurers.

And NGD said that want longer battles, more conjurers provide longer battles, and you make the conjurer life even harder, what's the point? it seems contraddiction to me.

[doppelapfel]

It is 50% after:
1) resistance check
2) evade check
3) block check

In reality, the chance you'll actually fully debuff someone with MS is probably closer to 30-35%

You can call every offensive spell chance based if you want to, no need to tell us that.

I will continue using st, less in 1v1 but as often as now in big fights. But ill drop TM i think :/. Maybe frozen storm will do the same.

Id like to see heal ally healing a percentage of the full health, maybe 30%, this would be fairer to warriors who have more health than mages and archers and need more heals.

[Punti_X]

GH seems to be castrated, but i belive that with new knight auras it will be much less health hungry game. More mana hungry, for sure (450 for every knight aura).

[VandaMan]

Will the auras that have been changed to areas continue to run after the caster has died? It seems like making the buff end when the caster dies would give more incentive to attack knights, and help them fulfill their tanking role, as well as force allies to protect conjurers. If they continue after the death of the caster I think this update will be a nerf to the effects of good team-play.

[KryHavoK]

the changes all sound good to me. knights are finally getting their rightfully deserved due, but I'm a bit concerned about what this would mean for the marksman class seeing that there's gona be no improvement to them

From reading Chilko's opening post, I'm thinking/hoping that the Archer class is still on their to-do list and will be addressed before releasing the balance update.


.
.
.

AND THERE IS MORE WORK TO BE DONE (LIKE WITH ARCHERS)

[esp_tupac]

the modification on cs was genious in this update!
what used to be "50% cs" on lvl 5 arcane devotion is now "100% cs".
if 50% cs in the current version and 100% cs in the new version have the exact SAME speed, which i strongly believe it is, then what's really changed is cs values on mages' gloves and staffs. That is, NGD cut cs values on armor by HALF!

what's happening is that 7% cs on glove and staff in the new version is now equvalent to 3.5% cs in our current version. That is, a maximum of 21% cs (from armor) + 50% cs (from arcane devotion) in current version get reduced to a max. of 10.5% cs (from armor) + 50% cs (from arcane devotion) in the new version. This is indeed the 60% cs CAP that ppl were talking about. NGD did this in a subtle way :D

As u can see, this modification effectively reduced the gap between uber players' cs and ordinary players' cs. Now it's only 10.5% cs between a player with max. cs and a player who does not have any cs armors at all!

On top of that, global cooldowns for mages have been increased in general. and "silence" duration has been reduced to 4 sec at lvl 1. ordinary players, mage in particular, now have a chance to fight back against uber mage players. mage pvp will no longer rely heavily on cs as much as it did in the current version.

The slow casting speed that ppl are experiencing on Amun is a combination of a 50% reduction in cs on armors and a 50% increase (from 1sec to 1.5sec in general) in global cooldown and is NOT a result of the "arcane devotion" nerf that NGD claimed to have done!


PS: this is just my observation on Amun and may not be correct. plz do not critisize me if u think differently.

[_Enio_]

With improvements to armour all around I will be interested to see how med/fast marks/hunter/knight weapons manage, most were already borderline ineffective vs buffed targets.


Exactly what i was wondering. Fixed armours could mean that we finally get the formula to calculate the mitigation per ap for different damage type resistances?

I want to add that buffed damage reduction of armor (non-scaling) greatly reduces the smaller hits (archers &knights, dots) and should be checked upon balancing.

[_Nel_]

the modification on cs was genious in this update! ...

Check this:
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=62826

[Kyrottimus]

In my opinion GH should still affect the caster.

Either that or if it's going to stay this way, self heal and self regen should have slightly lower cd's and/or mana costs to compensate for it.

Remember: Conjus already have it hard as it is to support others. Let's not give them any less of a reason to do so.

[e30G]

I like the change of GH from an Aura to an area. The duration has been raised from 30secs to 60 secs now. As far as it not affecting the caster, I will reserve my judgement until I test it out on a fight. Some people say it's a bug so I will wait and see. If it won't affect the caster. then at least raise the hp/tick of regenerate self and allow prebuffing even without damage.

[BigManOnCampus]

... The duration has been raised from 30secs to 60 secs now. ...

..
Conjurer:


Major healing: This power has been changed from Aura to an Area, Now it works as a constant healing to the allies in the area when casted.
Duration of the power has been set at 30 seg.
Power level progression fom 1 to 5 is: 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 pts.


^^^^^^^^^^

[e30G]

It was 60secs on Amun.

[doppelapfel]

And it was 30 before so i think they thought about it again after those many complaints.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Amuns current version of GH:
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2684/newgha.png (http://img257.imageshack.us/i/newgha.png/)

e30ernest did clearly say raised from 30secs to 60 secs safe to say he knew it was 30 seconds before and NGD have raised it since then :p

[NotScias]

Amuns current version of GH:
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2684/newgha.png (http://img257.imageshack.us/i/newgha.png/)

e30ernest did clearly say safe to say he knew it was 30 seconds before and NGD have raised it since then :p

The description is not up-to-date.
It still shows it's an aura, and +40hp per tick, which is wrong.
I just tested on Amun, it's still 30 seconds and +30hp per sec, which really sucks compared to the current GH (+40 / 60s).

Big GH nerf, nothing more to say about it. If it stays lame like this, drastically reduce its cooldown/mana cost at least, it's the least you can do...

[e30G]

Aha you are right. Thanks for the test. :)

[BigManOnCampus]

Amuns current version of GH:
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2684/newgha.png (http://img257.imageshack.us/i/newgha.png/)

e30ernest did clearly say safe to say he knew it was 30 seconds before and NGD have raised it since then :p


The descriptions are not updated with the combat numbers on amun, it's always been this way.

[Syrtisa]

there r so few support conjus left (ative) and after nefring nefring and nefring we suppose to expect another nefr.... hyyyyymmmm

lets assume that i am worng about that...
rp's means nothing, but since we got many ppl active we can try to do some statistic how many support conjus are at top payers list ... 2 ?

it could manes:
- ppl plays bad - unlikely since we got many players
- playing conju is unattractive - quite likely imho

so what to do with unattractive class .... NEFR IT ???? am I insane or sth is wrong with general approach ?

another question plz show me SENIOR support cojnu happy of incoming changes (can u name 5 for whole RO, cos i can't)

[Gideon_Slack]

What you people who are complaining about the apparent nerf to GH are failing to realize is that armor now helps a LOT more. You wont need as much healing.

Interesting to see how this plays out.

Do you think archers will put less points in Evasion skills like Acrobatic?

[chilko]

there r so few support conjus left (ative) and after nefring nefring and nefring we suppose to expect another nefr.... hyyyyymmmm

lets assume that i am worng about that...
rp's means nothing, but since we got many ppl active we can try to do some statistic how many support conjus are at top payers list ... 2 ?

it could manes:
- ppl plays bad - unlikely since we got many players
- playing conju is unattractive - quite likely imho

so what to do with unattractive class .... NEFR IT ???? am I insane or sth is wrong with general approach ?

another question plz show me SENIOR support cojnu happy of incoming changes (can u name 5 for whole RO, cos i can't)

We are not trying to nerf conjurers at all. We are trying to make them more interesting to play. Also, we want more people to focus on the support aspects.

Some of the changes are very preliminary. Please don't come to crude conclusions so fast.

[_Arwen_]

We are not trying to nerf conjurers at all. We are trying to make them more interesting to play. Also, we want more people to focus on the support aspects.

Some of the changes are very preliminary. Please don't come to crude conclusions so fast.

I know its been suggested before, but if you want to help conjurers be support maybe you could move Mana Communion out of staff mastery and into another more support oriented tree. I've dropped (as have many other conjurers) MC out of my setup because I won't waste points on an entire tree just to get a small trickle of mana to my allies... sorry. It would be a welcome change, please consider it.


[Edit]
Looking at the trees I think the best option would be to take a skill from Mana Control and swap it with Mana Communion (this only makes sense since Mana Communion is a type of Mana Control). I would say switch with Metabolic Control, this skill doesn't make much sense to a support conj unless you're thinking of adding in resists to heals...

[Kyrottimus]

I know its been suggested before, but if you want to help conjurers be support maybe you could move Mana Communion out of staff mastery and into another more support oriented tree. I've dropped (as have many other conjurers) MC out of my setup because I won't waste points on an entire tree just to get a small trickle of mana to my allies... sorry. It would be a welcome change, please consider it.

+1

I agree with this completely. It never should have been moved to Staff Mastery to begin with imo.

Conjus are in such a state, that if something is nerfed or made to be less effective, I really think there should be a counter-balance in another area (at least) to increase effectiveness there.

[bigjim138]

Agree, if Mana communion could be moved to another tree it would really help with points, and we wouldn't have to waste all those points for basically one or two useful spells in staff mastery.

I also think Heal ally and regen ally should be instant cast, but that probably won't change.

[NotScias]

We are not trying to nerf conjurers at all. We are trying to make them more interesting to play. Also, we want more people to focus on the support aspects.

Some of the changes are very preliminary. Please don't come to crude conclusions so fast.

So if you want to help conjurers and not nerf them, why did you nerf GH ? Yes I know this is preliminary, but the fact that you reduced GH's duration and power clearly shows that you want to nerf it.

You want to make people focus on the support aspects but you nerf to hell the only and best Conjurer aura, does it really make sense ?

If you really want to help Support Conjurers, first don't nerf their few still-valuable Support spells...

And I agree that MC should be swapped with Metabolic Control. It's really in the wrong tree.

[chilko]

So if you want to help conjurers and not nerf them, why did you nerf GH ? Yes I know this is preliminary, but the fact that you reduced GH's duration and power clearly shows that you want to nerf it.

You want to make people focus on the support aspects but you nerf to hell the only and best Conjurer aura, does it really make sense ?

If you really want to help Support Conjurers, first don't nerf their few still-valuable Support spells...

And I agree that MC should be swapped with Metabolic Control. It's really in the wrong tree.

We reduced it's cooldown.
we are thinking that it would me more interesting if you would be able to use it more frequently (now that it's more difficult to place it in the best possible location).

also, this skill was never supposed to heal the caster. it was a bug, a bug that allowed conjurers to be able to tank somehow (not an intended behaviour)

mana cost may vary too...

You guys have concerns about GH. So do we.
Note taken.

please let's discuss about the other dozens of changes out there too! :)

[bigjim]

We reduced it's cooldown.
we are thinking that it would me more interesting if you would be able to use it more frequently (now that it's more difficult to place it in the best possible location).

also, this skill was never supposed to heal the caster. it was a bug, a bug that allowed conjurers to be able to tank somehow (not an intended behaviour)

mana cost may vary too...

You guys have concerns about GH. So do we.
Note taken.

please let's discuss about the other dozens of changes out there too! :)

So in fact the new GH will not effect the caster?

[chilko]

So in fact the new GH will not effect the caster?

it was always the idea.
you do have other spells to heal yourself.
we always said that this should be a difficult class to play.

[Mattdoesrock]

Please remember there is a very thin line between difficult to play, and purely frustrating.,

[theotherhiveking]

Well, im concerned about whirlwind, or however its written (last skill of two hand mastery)
Its an aura, and on top on that the armor increase and fixes have rendered it useless.
Thoughts on that?

Also, what about onslaught? Any changes to it?




Also, the attributes? They are almost useless, pure bonuses are very superior to even the highest of the attribute bonuses, thoughts on reducing the weapon fixed base numbers and increasing the attribute influences?
(note i did not mention weapon bonuses, just the base values)

Same with medium and fast weapons, not efficient, both damage and skill wise due to the global cooldownm and the damage isn't very intuitive either, due to the variation of the attribute weights.

[_Enio_]

I dont like the fact those new 'aura buffs' keep working while being far away of the caster.

I disagree to add support without putting the supporter vulnerable (atm he has to be in range = also targetable for enemies while the support lasts).

With long lasting area buffs you can run in,quickly cast buff and run out in a safe area again.


How about splitting the 30s 1time buff into eg. 3 10sec or 6 5sec lasting buffs? You would still save loads of server calculation.

[Kyrottimus]

Well, im concerned about whirlwind, or however its written (last skill of two hand mastery)
Its an aura, and on top on that the armor increase and fixes have rendered it useless.
Thoughts on that?

+1

Whirlwind has always had very limited applications that would allow it to be practical. With higher armor values the fixed damage set on whirlwind will render it obsolete and a waste of skill points.

Why not up the damage by 100 dmg blunt/slash (each) or just add a % of weapon damage into it per tick rate as well?

Also maybe give it a slight -const debuff to those enemies in the effected area?


Also, what about onslaught? Any changes to it?

IMO it requires at the very least a reduction of 50 mana cost per level (350mp cost at level 5). Also a 5 second duration increase would make it far more desirable.

But at the very least the mana reduction is a must.

[theotherhiveking]

Athor proposed a -25% movement speed effect.

Actually it could just be replaced by a more powerful or efficient area.

We already have shockwave, that its like all the 180º areas but better.

You could do the same to whirlwind, an bigger area, or cheaper, or reloads faster, something like that.

Cheap and lazy, but its a safe option.

[Recoil]

Chilko why are heal self and heal ally separate spells? Can't it work like dispell (cast on self if no target selected)?

[_Arwen_]

Chilko why are heal self and heal ally separate spells? Can't it work like dispell (cast on self if no target selected)?

Because they couldn't think of 2 more spells for the heal tree :).

In all seriousness though, I'd love to see this as well however they'd need to give us a shortcut key to de-select all targets since thats the hardest part of self dispel right now. If you're not careful and drag your hand a bit while de-selecting it turns into mouse-turn and you don't de-select your target :(.

[theotherhiveking]

Or maybe because you should spend extra points if you want to do both \*/

Plus its tricky to deselect, and it could result in frustration.

You cant cast this on the enemy.. lala...

[Ulti19]

I dont like the fact those new 'aura buffs' keep working while being far away of the caster.

I disagree to add support without putting the supporter vulnerable (atm he has to be in range = also targetable for enemies while the support lasts).

With long lasting area buffs you can run in,quickly cast buff and run out in a safe area again.


How about splitting the 30s 1time buff into eg. 3 10sec or 6 5sec lasting buffs? You would still save loads of server calculation.

I disagree. Now with my knight I can shield wall the back of an army since it's only 6 range, then cast deflecting barrier and run to the front of the army keeping everyone buffed. And while I could attack up front, conj's and others in back would already have my support from these new area auras. I like it. And so far from what I saw (unless they changed already) the area auras for knights last 30 seconds now, kind of short so a good trade off.

[Syrtisa]

also, this skill was never supposed to heal the caster. it was a bug, a bug that allowed conjurers to be able to tank somehow (not an intended behaviour)



First of all ty for allowing us to express our feelings about game play...

from my experience i can say i can do tank stuff for about 6-8 sec in heavy stress.... after this i am defenceless (=death). I say let's not make this sorter. Conju tank is done (i.e.) via Steel Skinn and gh, regen and karma (ss its only phisical). Usually I can use SS and GH for postpone time in which i need to cast sanc or i order to been able to survive around most wounded warriors (i.e. attacking line). IMHO conjus needs to be MEGA tanks for short while to do theirs job.
I need to express this strongly: conjuer defended by warriors around is a myth (sure ppl are trying, and I always been gr8 full for that, but often they cant protect cos of "KILL CONJU FIRST" staff = whole of enemy zerg is trying to kill conju)... and also for that reason conjus NEED to be short time tank.

[TheMessenger]

First of all ty for allowing us to express our feelings about game play...

from my experience i can say i can do tank stuff for about 6-8 sec in heavy stress.... after this i am defenceless (=death). I say let's not make this sorter. Conju tank is done (i.e.) via Steel Skinn and gh, regen and karma (ss its only phisical). Usually I can use SS and GH for postpone time in which i need to cast sanc or i order to been able to survive around most wounded warriors (i.e. attacking line). IMHO conjus needs to be MEGA tanks for short while to do theirs job.
I need to express this strongly: conjuer defended by warriors around is a myth (sure ppl are trying, and I always been gr8 full for that, but often they cant protect cos of "KILL CONJU FIRST" staff = whole of enemy zerg is trying to kill conju)... and also for that reason conjus NEED to be short time tank.

this is true, +1

[e30G]

also, this skill was never supposed to heal the caster. it was a bug, a bug that allowed conjurers to be able to tank somehow (not an intended behaviour)

I must say, this has been expected for some time now.

So what is the trade-off? Can we at least have regen spells as prebuffs again? Give us more options on how to play please.

[NotScias]

it was always the idea.
you do have other spells to heal yourself.
we always said that this should be a difficult class to play.

Because being completely disabled for 30 seconds because of one cheap spell, being defenseless alone and forced to be "babysitted" by others to move somewhere safely, having shitty self heals, unreliable self defense spells and a bugged nerfed Sanctuary, being almost always out-of-mana due to the insane mana cost of most of our support spells and the great lameness of Mana Communion, having hard time to support others instead of having fun killing enemy by ourselves, and still being yelled at and left behind when something goes wrong isn't hard enough ?
(And add on top of that, the really poor selection system)

I don't know about Ra, but on Horus it's already awesome when we get more than 1 decent support Conjurer in War, all others playing Warju (because a million times more fun than support) or other classes (like me) because being frustrated of this class, and logging their conju only for leeching (super)bosses.

You wanted to make Conjurers hard, well done NGD, you did it, but this has been enough now. You made support Conjus so disgusting that almost no-one wants to play it, but you still continue, and want to heavily nerf the only Conjurer aura because "Conjurer aren't meant to be tanks".
First, Conjurers are far to be tanks actually, the self heals combined to GH aren't enough to outheal any damage, what about self defense spells : force armor/mirage are broken; Mind Blank 40% chance to resist most of CCs, you better be very lucky, Karma Mirror, 30s 30%, so OP yeah; Steel Skin ? You'd better not cross any warlock or warrior using hammer (40-50% of them ?) or warju or several marks, but it's true they are so rare in the battlefield; don't forget the awesome armor of mages and their countless HPs. Seriously did you ever see a fully buffed Conjurer tank more than 5 seconds if they are not protected by anyone ?...
Then, why shouldn't Conjurers be able to tank ? Aren't they supposed to be the "Defensive" side of the mages ? Barbarians hit hard but are squishy, Knights hit low but are tanks that can also protect allies, Warlocks are kickass apocalypse spell casters but are very squishy, (support) Conjurers have almost no offense, can support allies... but are very squishy too... I'm sorry to say this but what is the interest of being a conjurer instead of a warlock, except of being a heal/mana cow/slave and not be able to kill anybody alone ? Nada, since most of Conju self defense is shit anyways and except few exception in certain situations, is the same than Warlocks (= almost none)...
That's why I find your argument really senseless because Conjurers should in my opinion be able to have a decent self-defense, since they are the "defensive" side of the mages, they should be able to protect and self protect themselves properly, maybe not as much as knights since they are more supportive than them and that they remain mages...
And this is a bit essential, knowing how much they are targeted in war.

So please don't say that you want to make Support Conjurers even more hard to play because they are already hard and ignored enough, and please don't nerf the few reasons of being a Conjurer because thinking this...

Anyways I still don't see the explanation about why +30/30s non-stackable instead of +40/60s stackable for GH (and even with lesser CD, it's still a huge gap)... Are you planning to nerf all damage done by 10 to make this new GH worth something ?

And to finish on this topic, if you really want to stop warjuring and make Conjurers go to war again, don't nerf them because this will have exactly the reserve effect, and especially their supportive side (like GH)... You're really doing it wrong this way...

On another topic :
I know and agree that Sultar's Terror needed a nerf, but isn't it a bit too much now ? Now that Sultars can't be stacked/chained and have a % chance of knock, why heavily nerfing its splash damage (does 300ish on unranked mobs at lvl5) ? Okay the damage was a bit OP too, but seriously, 300 dmg, that's ridiculously low for a lvl19 area and for an offensive class...

[Aasiora-Leif]

With all do respect, NGD, you shouldn't be worried about tanking conjus as much; instead, you should be more worried about 90% of conjus using the class for offensive purposes (not the intended role of conjus).

The post above mine says it all. Please do not nerf Greater Healing. If you nerf the efficiency of GH, you'll end up with less support players

+1 to Scias

[Caelia]

+1 to Scias

GH was nice because it was a bit of a reprieve when it was running. Throw on GH when I start to get overwhelmed with staying on top of healing my allies, and in the process have a bit more protection for myself.

These changes to conjs seem to only hurt them even more than they were before. How can conjs be expected to keep their allies alive when they have a hard enough time to keep themselves alive?

[Znurre]

One thing that I noticed with the new terrain is that it greatly favors Syrtis.
They can still drop down the cliff and slide down the slope, while Alsius has to take the road up to the fort.
Would it be possible to put some invisible barrier (like at Daen Ra) at those cliffs?

[ncvr]

a bug that allowed conjurers to be able to tank somehow (not an intended behaviour)
The best thing you guys can do to make warriors able to protect conjus is to implement collision detection. That way enemies can trip over our corpses.

In all seriousness, I can understand if you don't want healers to be able to tank dmg. But there are no classes equipped to protect conjus efficiently, and even if there were, enemies would still be able to force pressure on the conju and disable anyone trying to protect the conju.

[HidraA]

Bugs on amun:
Areas stuck:
-dom...keep players dizzy until they log out.
-splinter wall..keep players slow until they relog.
-knights areas aura...keep they armor up until they relog.

[Zas_]

.....



Big +1, it is hard enough to find conjs at war.

[Zas_]

Bugs on amun:
Areas stuck:
-dom...keep players dizzy until they log out.
-splinter wall..keep players slow until they relog.
-knights areas aura...keep they armor up until they relog.

Confirmed.

I noted a visual bug in modified terrain at Algaros, see screenshot.

[doppelapfel]

I need to express this strongly: conjuer defended by warriors around is a myth

Atm they get better defended by locks, dispel against knock down/dizzy/confuse, beetles and mind push against warriors and will domain, meteor and so on against ranged attackers.

[Syrtisa]

+1 to Scias....

Scias knows conju craft and pain well...

[Isemon]

+ 1.000.000 to scias

same feelings here, i am, like almost everyone else, frustrated of playing the conjurer class. It is hard enough to play it, mana cost are a pain, going around without an army is a pain, try to cross a bridge alone to reach a fort and you will be gang banged by hunters. Conjurer had experienced nerf after nerf: divine intervenction, mana communion, protection dome, no more regenerate self as pre-buff, sanctuary nerf, mana cost augmented, enchantments nerf, and now greater healer nerf.... :thumb_down:

[chilko]

On another topic :
I know and agree that Sultar's Terror needed a nerf, but isn't it a bit too much now ? Now that Sultars can't be stacked/chained and have a % chance of knock, why heavily nerfing its splash damage (does 300ish on unranked mobs at lvl5) ? Okay the damage was a bit OP too, but seriously, 300 dmg, that's ridiculously low for a lvl19 area and for an offensive class...

terror will be stackable. We are adding the chances instead of the unstackable feature. we just didn't turn off the feature we where trying

[Mattdoesrock]

terror will be stackable.

This update was sounding so good...


Then... Fail. ¬¬

[Pwnography]

terror will be stackable.
This was the only problem with the spell =/ why leave it and nerf it in another way?

[theotherhiveking]

This update was sounding so good...


Then... Fail. ¬¬
+1

text text.

[UmarilsStillHere]

One thing that I noticed with the new terrain is that it greatly favors Syrtis.
They can still drop down the cliff and slide down the slope, while Alsius has to take the road up to the fort.
Would it be possible to put some invisible barrier (like at Daen Ra) at those cliffs?

I agreed at first glace but after looking at the map some more:

If you take the paths I would think each fort is the same distance from PP2, but Alsius save is much closer to PP2 than the Algaros one.

If you timed running from each save to the opposing fort I dont think Syrtis will be a lot faster, they are probably around even.

And now Trele save is further from the front of Algaros than Algaros save, before they were around the same which was silly.

On Terror: I for one would rather see stacking removed than a % fail chance.

[Recoil]

This update was sounding so good...


Then... Fail. ¬¬

My thoughts exactly.

So far I don't like any change apart from Rage of the Earth improvement.

[_Enio_]

This update was sounding so good...


Then... Fail. ¬¬

+1

Ngd if your going this way:
>> Add diminishing returns <<
>> Add visual feedback for diminishing returns <<

[Kianoni]

I agreed at first glace but after looking at the map some more:

If you take the paths I would think each fort is the same distance from PP2, but Alsius save is much closer to PP2 than the Algaros one.

If you timed running from each save to the opposing fort I dont think Syrtis will be a lot faster, they are probably around even.

And now Trele save is further from the front of Algaros than Algaros save, before they were around the same which was silly.

and the distances to castles are? as long as they are as they are algaros should be on alsius side of the bridge.

Edit: oops I misread Umaril's post but anyway, swap the castles already :)

[w_larsen]

there is no use in 90% chance then, as the 1/10 who resist effect, will get knocked on next terror, while others will be still on ground.

single sultar isn't problem, chains of 6-7 is, and 90% chance doesnt solve a thing. 5 resists in invasion party of 50.

i understand that gained immunity from terror, made tables turn, but i propose terror to work as ordinary nonstackable knocks wor now - no immunity, but you cant stack it.

that would make terror chains harder because of needed timing, but would solve the immune zerg problem.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Edit: oops I misread Umaril's post but anyway, swap the castles already :)

NGD said they will be placing a teleporter somewhere in Alsius that leads near to Efe, though thats progress I would still like to see Efes and Algaros locations switched, but I guess its a big job moving such a structure and fitting it into new terrain.

And with a teleporter Syrtis can easily camp the exit area as Alsians come though, which may make for interesting battles but it hardly fair on the Alsius side :)

[HidraA]

terror will be stackable.

Sorry for my words...big shit ever.
Lmao was fighting in fort war and to be knocked for 2364782364723846 sec is stupid ever ....
The just make terror 354734346 dmg same shit.
Knoked for 34573478 sec=3 sultars 900 dmg/each +2-3 hits of OP marx or ensare arow.....Another +1 big fail of NGD
I wonder if you care another think like premium side of this game....You realy want this game to be playeble for all classes or just sample nerf mages after all ppl now grind warriors and spend another 723874267 xim to lvl-up them after RO is full with locks /hunters...isnt complaint...just one question....

[doppelapfel]

terror will be stackable. We are adding the chances instead of the unstackable feature. we just didn't turn off the feature we where trying

Omg. :facepalm3:
The stacking was really the biggest problem with terror and typhoon. Dont do that, just make all ccs unstackable and give a short immunity (1-2 secs?) against the same effect after ending. Thats exactly what you announced and its the perfect solution! (Im saying this as a warlock, terrors decide battles to much and i know that the spell would be still great if unstackable) 99% of the community would agree with that i guess, why dont you just do it?

With great respect to the conjus complaining about GH nerf here, such as Arwen, Scias, Caelia, etc... This is why GH being nerfed might be ok for a prelim balancing.
This is a bug with armor points. Seems like they dont get reduced after the ending of a buff. I got an ensnaring (5) with 180 dmg yesterday on my lock from a lvl 50 hunter.

[BigManOnCampus]

This is a bug with armor points. Seems like they dont get reduced after the ending of a buff. I got an ensnaring (5) with 180 dmg yesterday on my lock from a lvl 50 hunter.

I had just logged on, that bug is not possible.

[BigManOnCampus]

With great respect to the conjus complaining about GH nerf here, such as Arwen, Scias, Caelia, etc... This is why GH being nerfed might be ok for a prelim balancing.

EDIT: jeeebus but that compression even screws up the cropped log

Uncompressed SS: http://jeremy.stoic-epicurean.com/pictures/screenshot.jpg

[HidraA]

With great respect to the conjus complaining about GH nerf here, such as Arwen, Scias, Caelia, etc... This is why GH being nerfed might be ok for a prelim balancing.

EDIT: jeeebus but that compression even screws up the cropped log

You show me there another bullshit of stack of auras....
FAil of balance.
Please relog and after show me some shit.
Press "C" key dude and tell me the armors points...
Some of ppl talk before full testing.

[BigManOnCampus]

You show me there another bullshit of stack of auras....
FAil of balance.
Please relog and after show me some shit.
Press "C" key dude and tell me the armors points...
Some of ppl talk before full testing.

The top of that log shows me dismounting from my horse.
I had just logged in and rode to Meni.
I hit Caution and Precise Block and that's it.

Here's the uncompressed screenshot:
http://jeremy.stoic-epicurean.com/pictures/screenshot.jpg

[ice_zero_cool]

I tried it with my barb and frenzy (5), caution (3). I get hit by about 85 - 90points. I had 919 AP.
I logged in, rode to Algaros and started my spells

[_Arwen_]

With great respect to the conjus complaining about GH nerf here, such as Arwen, Scias, Caelia, etc... This is why GH being nerfed might be ok for a prelim balancing.

I'm not exactly complaining since I dropped GH and MC a while ago as they don't go with the dispel conjurer setup (auras force you to get caught in chain areas rendering your dispel's useless). Ok, maybe I am complaining a bit, however its for a good reason. By giving support conjurers all these nerfs you're making us feel useless. If we feel useless we quit or switch to another class. If we quit or switch to another class, you die more...

Think about it most of the support spells have been nerfed now:

Heals - increased mana (and I think the duration went up too)
Regenerates - increased mana and no pre-casting it now
MC - this one's obvious, range and amount nerf.
Protection Dome - yea... made almost useless
Vital Surrender - I'm pretty sure this one took a nerf too, can't remember what though

And Now...

GH - possible nerf of duration, and amount and range.


How is this making the class more appealing to play? Personally as long as they don't nerf Dispel, I'll continue to play my conjurer as this is the only way I feel like I'm a constant factor in war relying on healing only is too much downtime.

[von1958]

as it is now support conju is the least fun char to play and ngd wants to make it worst. well chico just remove the class from the game with the nerfin done and the new nerfs you might as well just remove conjus all together

[Aasiora-Leif]

The simple fact of the matter is that most people prefer offensive classes to supportive classes; most would rather fight instead of hiding behind a rock supporting other players. In order to get more people to play Conjurers as they were intended, you need to make the class appealing.......

Having said that, nerfs to some of our best and most balanced spells will not make the class appealing; people will either go warju or switch to another class because the company that owns this game continuously makes our gaming experience harder

I don't know about other realms, but in Syrtis, I haven't seen a new support conju in a long while. On the contrary, I've seen many new conjus who have skilled for warju all the time. On the subject of support conjus, in syrtis, I usually just see the regulars (Syrtisa, Ieti, Lussiel, Mr. Egg, Arwen, etc). I may be wrong, but I only count 8 constantly active conjus in syrtis spread across all timezones and many of them have alts that are more fun to play with.

With all due respect, if you want to start balancing the conju class, stop nerfing us ffs.

[Zas_]

Guys, please wait next step.

I'm sure NGD goal isn't to make conjurer class even more boring.
They said it is preliminary work.

Whetever, i'm clearly against anything making support conjurers even more rare.

As many players, i'm quite anxious about this balance update.

[e30G]

I agree. This is a work in progress, so instead of whining how x change is bad for x class, I suggest you propose solutions.

[bois]

Hi everyone,

I waited to post my opinions because I really wanted to see the opinions of certain people that I consider to be experts in specific classes. I consider a lot of you experts. Now that a lot of them checked in I can post more freely by gaining knowledge from their wisdom. Everyone knows I play Knight mainly and as such, most of my experience lies there. Much of my commentary may be coloured by this.

Anyway, here we go.

GENERAL COMBAT MECHANICS

Anything that improves the fluidity of my general combat is a bonus for me. I have found that combat is generally more fluid so that is a positive. On the negative side I find that my apparent positioning (visual) would take some time to get used to. Quite often to hit a normal or a spell after a running target, I have to be visually almost past my target to hit. With spear I am basically on my target to hit. This applies to running targets (away). Stationary or hardly moving targets are just fine. Because I am maybe the only player from Trinidad and Tobago playing and my ISP plays the arse a lot , this may be the reason. We will see.
Generally, I see improvements across the board here so I give this a thumbs up.

Have not tested the Casting time > casting speed in any depth so I think I should refrain from commentary at this time.

MAP

I am glad the map editor is working (did not know it was down) . The Algaros improvement should make things interesting there. I look forward to changes in the teleporter , addition of the new one and possibly move of Trelleborg save. Should be interesting.

SPELLS
Mages:

* Silence: Okay I guess however, I was more thinking along the lines of :
level 1 4 seconds, 180 mana
level 2 6 seconds, 210 mana
level 3 8 seconds, 240 mana
level 4 10 seconds, 270 mana
level 5 12 seconds, 300 mana .
The mana consumption should be adjusted to be more in line with the time (considering it doesn't do any actual damage) to make it more attractive.
I am basing the values on what the description says (yes I know the first one is supposed to be 3 seconds.)

* Splinter wall: This spell was practically useless before but had a few application because of the very long duration (30 seconds I believe) It is now 10 seconds for the same damage and same mana. Now it is totally useless. No way a mage can save himself using it and the damage is so negligible because it is piercing attack ( most around setup up to defend this damage because of archers) that I would be damn foolish to skill it and try to cast it in an opposing army. Area yes, but this one needs work. I see what you were trying to do but this is a big nerf. Consider adding a reduction of hit chance to the mix to make this one more attractive. Something like -6%, -8%,-10%,-12%, -14% hit chance to those caught in the area and lasts the 10 second period in addition to the pierce damage. That might make this one interesting.
* Time master: I could live with those changes. a 100% freeze chance was a bit irritating.

Conjurer:
* Major healing: this one hmm. This might need a whole post. My view on this is extensive.
A few quick points on it. 30 second duration is a bit too short in my view. At least 45 seconds might be more appropriate. I don't think the caster should be affected, I will post separately why a bit later on. The health tick should return to +40 at the high end. I endorse converting it to an area. Reasons will be explained in separate post later on.

* Tremor: The top tier needs to be a 100% dizzy rate rather than 90%. Resists abound already and classes have the ability to increase their resist rate to dizzy spells already. this should at worst be 60% to 100% in 10% increments.

Warlok:

* Sultar´s terror: Well NGD out did themselves on this one. A mega nerf to this spell. This nerf should be called a nuke rather. So we have a spell that could be resisted quite often and considering the type of damage could be deflected anyway if the correct auras were in place. Not to mention the changes to CS which is a game changer on top of it all.
The only problem with the spell was that it stacked so you would be lying on the turf writing your memoirs until it was all over. Instead of doing the NGD philosophy way which is to do 1 change to fix many problems they did the opposite. I found that rather funny.
Anyway, The first and biggest change to Terror would be to not make it stackable, Second change would be to lock it to a 30m *edit* maximum range spell and not the staff range beyond 30 m. Maybe even drop it to 25m range. The splash effect could have been adjusted as they did but from 100% at epicentre to 50% at edges. Consider that knights now have 360 degree areas and auras making the proposed changes by NGD seem even more odd. Harsh words for a first iteration but I this one needs a full rethink. It may be easier to do the % chance thing but I thought more calculations= more lag . I could be wrong there. My view is that we need more things we are sure about and can count on rather than continuing to roll the dice more and more.

* Frozen Storm: they might have to tone this one down a bit to maybe 80% at the high end or else this might become the new time master with damage bonus. Would be very economical to use this one over time master both in mana consumption and where it resides on its tree.


Warriors:

* Typhoon: Typhoon did not need a touch in this round in my view. The length of time to cast it plus CD was enough to keep the spell balanced. they could even move the cast time to 3 seconds to balance this further.
* Mind Squasher: I don't know what this means -> "A bug has been corrected that might prevent this spell to work as intended"
* Thunder strike: No comment yet
* Martial reflexes: No idea if this is fixed or not. A critical hit can only be calculated when a normal hit lands. Then the probability of it being critical is calculated. Concentration is supposed to affect this. Without knowing the equation there is no way we can calculate if this works as intended. In my tests I saw no improvement whatsoever. But then how would I know? I have nothing to base it on.


Knights:

* Heroic presence: Fine
* Shield wall: This is fine, the 30 seconds for the mana is a bit short. Consider 40 seconds.
* Stars shield: Same as above
* Deflecting barrier: Fine

Barbarians:

* Thirst for blood: No comment yet.
* Rage of the earth: No comment yet.

At the end of it all, I applaud NGD for the fine effort they are making here. It is the first iteration so we have a long way to go. I am sure they will tweak and get stuff right. I am not overly concerned. Keep in mind this will be a HUGE update , maybe changing the game in ways we could not imagine now. Keep in mind that the archers have not been touched as well as other spells like darkness etc. Good luck NGD as always and congrats on your communications. The discussions are healthy and vigorous as I expected. Generally positive too!




Regards
Artec

[von1958]

actually ngd has known and understood what the conju problem was the ones who mostly where tankin were the warjus. so ngd in its wisdom heavly nerfed the support side of conjus and only slightly the side which allowed the warjus to be so oped. here again they propose nerfing the support end. which ultimatly will send more to the warju side. or total extinction of the support conju. sorry but being on the defence end of the mages they should be able to tank however the damage by this class should be next to nothing. as far as grindin the conjus auras should give more xp and rps

[Greyman_tle]

+10

From the changes listed and reading the feedback...thou i do find the amount of 'OMG..somethings changed...its different..i cant do what im used to doing..its a nerf!' posts...i'm looking forward to see how archers are integrated to this improvement to gameplay (hopefully).

Taking all the changes together we (the players) get a lot more than we lose.

Battles should last longer and it should be harder to annihilate an enemy in open field/bridge fights...if nothing else this should mean more rez than altar.

I havent played my conj in..well...ever as it felt as thou i was just a mobile constant health potion...with the change to GH i actually might play him again..but only if we make the most of the changes.....if we carry on as normal then i wont because the change does increase the need for a conj to be protected....the changes to the knight help with this....but the way we play - and i do include myself - with moments of real teamplay surrounded by everyone just out for themselves.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but as far as i understand it, Regnum is supposed to be more that just a muti-player shooter. Each class has an overall role in the RvR part of the game, and these changes certainly appear to move more in this direction..which means to get the most from the RvR we have to try to increase the moments of teamplay.

Barbs - protect your conj's, get past the knights and kill anything that moves.
Knight - protect your conj's, stop enemy barbs, support mages + marx.
Conj - Buff, Heal, Rez - support everyone that you can while they protect you.
Lock - protect your conj's, area bombardment, support Barbs and/or Knights
Hunt - protect your conj's, report enemy movements..protect flanks and rear...sneak attack on enemy flank and rear
Marks - protect your conj's, support everyone else, protect flanks and rear

Think outside of what is happening to your class and see the big picture...if you try to play the same way as you did, ofc its gonna be 'bad'....oooo ramble...sry

again +10 on the changes

[BigManOnCampus]

Knights:

* Heroic presence: This is okay once it becomes 360 degrees again. If not then it is a fail.

AFAIK, HP is 360 on both the live servers and on amun. The only thing that changed was the range (from 10 to 6)

[bois]

Yes you are correct. Error noted and fixed in original post . Thanks. And by the way Greyman_tle , that is just what I was going to discuss in my next post. The relationship between classes (mainly conju and Knight) in war and why conjurers should never have to be tanks in war if the others do their job or are allowed to do their job properly.

Art

[w_larsen]

protecting conjurers doesnt work, and i say it as conjurer.

if i, on squishy lvl 46 lock with default speed, lvl 4 barrier can run into small zerg and cast close up spell, how do you imagine stopping a buffed, um'ed and probably divined barb with ons and spring, given the selection problems and lack of collision detection? of course the barb have no chance of coming out alive, but there allways are suicidal barbs loyal to cause.

the bigest problem actually isnt about conjurers being or not being overpovered, underpovered orwhatever. problem is about class destruction due of lack of any fun or direct psychological rewards of playing it.

there are mostly about 6 conjurer specific spells wich are used on others. the rest are shared with mage class or used in self defense. now, if you think about it, there is almost more appeal of dropping some of warlocks attacking capabilities and skill more on supportive side of warlock, wich would probably need adjusting 3-5 points on some spells for good part of locks, and being able to still do attack stuff, with just a bit dimished performance, perhaps.

now the question is - can the 6 spells provide enough fun to play conjurer?

[Aasiora-Leif]

+10

From the changes listed and reading the feedback...thou i do find the amount of 'OMG..somethings changed...its different..i cant do what im used to doing..its a nerf!' posts...i'm looking forward to see how archers are integrated to this improvement to gameplay (hopefully).

Taking all the changes together we (the players) get a lot more than we lose.

Battles should last longer and it should be harder to annihilate an enemy in open field/bridge fights...if nothing else this should mean more rez than altar.

I havent played my conj in..well...ever as it felt as thou i was just a mobile constant health potion...with the change to GH i actually might play him again..but only if we make the most of the changes.....if we carry on as normal then i wont because the change does increase the need for a conj to be protected....the changes to the knight help with this....but the way we play - and i do include myself - with moments of real teamplay surrounded by everyone just out for themselves.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but as far as i understand it, Regnum is supposed to be more that just a muti-player shooter. Each class has an overall role in the RvR part of the game, and these changes certainly appear to move more in this direction..which means to get the most from the RvR we have to try to increase the moments of teamplay.

Barbs - protect your conj's, get past the knights and kill anything that moves.
Knight - protect your conj's, stop enemy barbs, support mages + marx.
Conj - Buff, Heal, Rez - support everyone that you can while they protect you.
Lock - protect your conj's, area bombardment, support Barbs and/or Knights
Hunt - protect your conj's, report enemy movements..protect flanks and rear...sneak attack on enemy flank and rear
Marks - protect your conj's, support everyone else, protect flanks and rear

Think outside of what is happening to your class and see the big picture...if you try to play the same way as you did, ofc its gonna be 'bad'....oooo ramble...sry

again +10 on the changes

"protect your conjus"........

How To Kill a Conju in 30 Seconds
By Aasiora

1: Camo (position yourself behind the conju)

2: Confuse/Ambush (inflict Confuse(5) on the conju, effectively leaving him/her completely helpless)

3. Attack conju while confused for the 30 sec duration (troll is preferred)

4. Use Sotw and Low Profile to escape from the zerg that is now pissed at you for killing their conju

5. Repeat step 1 for other conjus.


-----------------------------------------------------------

so what were you saying about the big picture? Maybe you should look at the REAL big picture and realize that it's hard for a conju to "heal/buff/revive" when they are confused for 30 seconds. With all due respect, if you want the "big picture" from a conju perspective, read Scias' post and then ask yourself why a lot of people wrote "+1 at Scias's comment".

[Gytha_Ogg]

I agreed at first glace but after looking at the map some more:

If you take the paths I would think each fort is the same distance from PP2, but Alsius save is much closer to PP2 than the Algaros one.

If you timed running from each save to the opposing fort I dont think Syrtis will be a lot faster, they are probably around even.

And now Trele save is further from the front of Algaros than Algaros save, before they were around the same which was silly.

On Terror: I for one would rather see stacking removed than a % fail chance.

Good points. I tried this on Amun:

From PP2 to Algaros took me 1m35s at first, I got it down to about 1m25s cutting corners.
PP2 to Trelle - about 1m20s

So pretty even from a bridge regrouping point to attack.

Alga fort to PP2 was about 55s, while Trelle to PP2 was still about 1m20s, so when we're playing Alga-Trelle ping-pong, Syrtis has an advantage, but this is a pretty minor point - since we have the advantage of being dead, we can still get to our own fort first. :biggrin:

Trelle save to PP2 was about 60s, Trelle save to Alga is about 2m25s.
Alga fort to Trelle fort is about 2m15s, but Alga save is farther away, more than 10s worth (I couldn't measure it because the guard killed me before I reached it, and I forgot to check the clock because a couple of Syrts had started chasing me while I tried to explain what i was doing. :p

Syrt: "No comprendo, Senora, eat arrows!"
Me: "Wait, 'eat arrows' is English!"
Syrt: :sifflote:

So Alsius has an advantage when ressing at the save and getting back to fight at the opposing fort. We used to have an even bigger advantage when we could run up the cliff, I suspect PP2-to-Alga time becomes essentially the same as the Alga-to-PP2 time: 55s.

In short, this change brings us much closer to balance.

I haven't seen the Alsius-Efe tele on Amun yet, anyone know if it's been implemented yet, and where it is?

[NotScias]

terror will be stackable. We are adding the chances instead of the unstackable feature. we just didn't turn off the feature we where trying

Oh, and the immunity period has been removed too ?
Will it concern only Sultar's Terror or any spell ?
That's lame, really I was more enjoyed by this update because of this (non stackable/chainable CCs + immunity period), because reducing Terror to 90% chance, when there's like 5-6 terrors stacked is a bit useless, and even with nerfed damage and armor/auras working correctly, mages won't still survive the Sultar stacks and rushes, esp if GH stays like this.

It's a pity that you reverted back :(

So if it stays like this, can we hope any Dispel / Mass Dispel improvement to have a chance to counter this ? Eg, Dispel / Mass Dispel giving immunity to CCs for 3 seconds after successful dispel would be very nice.

[BigManOnCampus]

@ Greyman & Artec

As an experienced knight I know my role and I have no problem protecting when it's required of me. Prior to this update, I would easily acknowledge to anyone that succeeding at making any difference protecting mages in the rear was exceedingly difficult. The knight auras do very little to tank mages against pets, and their range-arc on top of that made them horrendously silly to use when combat is so fluid. There is ethereal mantle to protect any specific mage, but it generally doesn't help against archers since it protects against magical damage only.

The primary threat to mages in war are archers, marksmen or hunters it doesn't really matter. Hunters will wait until there's noone around protecting me (When I'm on my lock) and ambush/confuse/pet kill me. Marksmen will simply buff up and nail me from fort walls after a mage or another archer has managed to knock me down, or when they know I can't get out of their range in time.

The result of this is, mages protect themselves. They haven't a choice in the matter. The only knight aura used previously was HP5 and it was best used around Barbs since their armor points were closer to knights and thus the +100% makes a bigger difference around warriors. So knights instead of protecting mages will usually just cluster with barbs and use their CC and HP5 along with whatever damage they could muster.

If knights are to really protect mages from their primary threat (Archers), there has to be some kind of speed balancing, imho. I would suggest leaving the crown of speed kings with the hunters but improve the speed bonus given to knights, perhaps shorten the effective time for spring (and perhaps increase it's CD a bit) and give knights specifically a passive speed boost so that with the addition of spring 5 knights can make a very fast short sprint and quickly pounce upon an archer attacking the mages. This sort of speed balancing needs to be done in a very specific way such that knights still can't chase down a hunter who's running away at full speed(because the spring countdown is too long), but fast enough to get 10-20m faster than any hunter can move off. If this sort of speed balancing isn't done, knights will in no way want to stay in the rear to protect the mages, because they'll never get a kill (archers will go into a god mode of some kind, sanc, sotw, etc, or just run away), they'll watch all their mages get killed and then they'll be the last ones alive and get pummeled.

Imho:
- Knight aura improvements are good, they let knights actually help lead charges.
- Warlock CC nerfs, if done very selectively, are a good idea, they make locks have to cast smarter instead of simply area-ing the enemy to death.
- Support Conju nerfs are in general not a good idea simply because, as has been described, conjus lengthen combat time, they keep the fight going which increases the fun.
- Knights need more short-sprint speed if they are ever going to be able to protect the mages. If this isn't their role, then the only people left able to protect the rear of a group are hunters, and that's a far more lonely/thankless job than conjurer.

[Kittypretty]

Hmm big let down to know that sultar will stack..i was so psyched about this, that NGD had finally understood that it wasnt sultars dmg, it was the cheap ass chained knocks that let melee classes charge with their own areas.

Now I have to go tell my friends, that we can look forward to the same stale gameplay, watching as we lay on the ground, sultar after sultar, and seeing barbs onslaught towards you. Fun.

Now At least (if this prelim changes, make it to final, the GH especially, I can really have a valid reason not to want to support. Because I can't :)
You give me no tools to do it..

Like the majority of people say..its not the tanking of conjs that was op..it was in conjunction with the warju build (sm/mental/summon trees that made it op. Staff mags still stack, accel still has same duration (and ignis still has op rings and quest tunic/armor that make this spell even more deadly) Steel skin was only physical damage, not elemental so It wasn't a true "tank" spell, one or 2 locks will finish that off quickly whether or not you have 2 GH running, heals and self regen, I can only hope to sanc before I get killed, assuming I don't get a meteor to the face, which assuredly will happen.
sure you can use karma mirror but thats only for 30 secs, and 30% return. Also doesnt do jack if you have a barrier up.

If you really intend to make this class difficult with absolutely no reward or incentive to play, then I thank you for not nerfing the really OP warju skills, and nerfing the ones that actually played into the theme you wished a class to play as..support/healing.
So if I can't heal anyone, well least killing people is still a viable option and easy as maxing the staff mastery tree, and picking up a summon.

I really hoped this was going to be a really good balance phase, but after seeing your plans, and outright missing the whole point time and time again, I'm guessing confuse will be extended to 60 secs, and hunters will be able to shoot from horses. Just frustrated I guess because I really like this game, and I really liked the conjurer class because I like helping people. But you keep taking away the skills that let me do so, and instead of making it rewarding and fun to polay, you say you want it to be difficult and frustrating instead.

We need lower costs for heals, instant casts.
Cast speed is fine, the gcd I can live with.
but nerfing our ability to give mana is crippling (it costs us about as much as it gives out, but gives fa to slow to be of any use, players are better off just resting! if you try to support with it, players will burn through it faster than it regens. Of course you can have more conjs giving mana com, but again, who wants to subject themselve to such a aggravating class that needs multiple conjs to even make a high level spell effective?
Same with healing (mass heal) Why is it slashed in half? I can deal with the healing myself like you say, but the cooldown is too long! its better to just use heal ally, but that has a cast time..gcd, high cost, and it requires a hectic amount of micro management (plus you give us no way to tell allies health rates at a glance (meaning just that, no buttons to press.., no slow party update)
Why can we not heal allies with full health but can give mana to those with full mana? WHY can't you just fix that too..so we don't waste our mana (because we can't tell WHO needs mana, the party system is slow, and hasn't worked right since i begun playing, I have to scan the chat, for mana!! and then run over there, give him mana, then run to heal some one, worry about my own buffs, my position, my mana level etc etc etc. A simple "cannot cast because target all has full mana" would suffice. SYnergy bond is far more useful than mana com is, but it require such micromanagement, I thought the idea of these auras were to limit that when things become too hectic, a way to still support when overwhelmed by needs you cannot give in the time alloted to everyone via singular spells, or the only conjurer in a group. But these spells you propose, and including nerfed spells (mana com) it is pointless when the gain is too small and incremental to be much more effective than simply resting.


Please reconsider these changes you are implementing, because I honestly think this is one more nail in the coffin for the class, and it does nothing at all to inhibit warju builds, it makes them more attractive by a wide margin.

[Ulti19]

Knights auras will greatly protect conj's if they skill for it now. I don't think they need some speed increase or anything. If knight stays back and casts deflecting barrier 5 which is 40% reduction of ranged damage and shield wall 5 which is 40 % protection against pierce, slash and blunt the uncamoed hunter will take forever to kill the conj while the knight can knock and kill pet until hunter runs away. And with star shield and shield wall now being an area buff, the knight can cast on the conjs and move to stop barbs, or help stop barbs charging. Protecting players will be so much easier (from my experience) if these auras stay this way. It is possible to help your conj's stay alive, you just have to skill for it after the update. However, this all depends how people play etc, so of course an unprotected conj will get destroyed by a camoed hunter which hits with confuse and troll attacks, just like an unbuffed barb who is ambushed by a troll hunter who casts confuse has almost no chance to do anything in open field.

[BigManOnCampus]

Knights auras will greatly protect conj's if they skill for it now. I don't think they need some speed increase or anything. If knight stays back and casts deflecting barrier 5 which is 40% reduction of ranged damage and shield wall 5 which is 40 % protection against pierce, slash and blunt the uncamoed hunter will take forever to kill the conj while the knight can knock and kill pet until hunter runs away. And with star shield and shield wall now being an area buff, the knight can cast on the conjs and move to stop barbs, or help stop barbs charging. ...

I respect you Ulti, I'll respect you more if you're that awesome in all your knight stats and have enough mana to cast all those :)

[Kaschka]

....
Why can we not heal allies with full health but can give mana to those with full mana? WHY can't you just fix that too..so we don't waste our mana (because we can't tell WHO needs mana, the party system is slow, and hasn't worked right since i begun playing, I have to scan the chat, for mana!! and then run over there, give him mana, then run to heal some one, worry about my own buffs, my position, my mana level etc etc etc. A simple "cannot cast because target all has full mana" would suffice.


i would love seeing that implemented, or a little mana bar under health bar

[Ulti19]

I respect you Ulti, I'll respect you more if you're that awesome in all your knight stats and have enough mana to cast all those :)

Surely there will be another knight capable of throwing star shield up ^^
Deflecting barrier5 and Shield wall5 will only cost around 850-900 mana, i'm not 100% sure I forget totals. That would leave me with 350-400 mana to use for fun :) Mainly knocking people to the ground so that barbs can kill them or using my ever favorite balestra^^ Also my reasoning is that this will be a group with a variety of classes dividing the responsibilites. But for sure I will be able to cast 2 of those, i'm already skilled for it just awaiting the changes to go live xD. (which might take awhile because they said they are preliminary)

I respect you too.

[HidraA]

Big bulshit atm...like i told before....nothing like mages nerfs but nothik realy happens on RO..NOTHING.
When NGD will be capable to doo anthoters shits like nerfs i will admit they are capable to do a game.....atm on my opinion just shit

[Syrtisa]

Knight is first line fighter... conju second or third... so in order to babysitting - knight need to stay with conju far from enemy...

I really don't believe that there will be 24h/day knight following me like a pet.

You will not hear this often but once of conjus tasks is to stay alive.... no one will do this job better then conju.... and once again conju defended by others is a myth (ofc i am grateful for ppl assistance) .

In fact other conjurer is best conju defender :) but since often we need do job solo... so ... if conjuer want to survive he needs take care by him self.... PLZ remember we are only rear guest to front line.

Syrtisa.

[Ulti19]

Knight is first line fighter... conju second or third... so in order to babysitting - knight need to stay with conju far from enemy...


Syrtisa.


Shield wall and star shield can now be cast and the knight can leave and you will still have his/her protection :) This is a very nice change. I'm not saying knights will babysit conj's and that only other people can keep a conj alive, of course that is your work and skill. But we can certainly keep your resistances more buffed than before while doing other things:)

[bois]

I will post in due course but In effect what I will post is about the frustration that has been welling up in support conjurers for a long time, The lack of tools that a knight has to defend a conjurer or any other class for that fact and the possible re-arrangement of spells on the conjurer trees as well as a few new suggestion on the knight tree that would make GH more feasible as an area instead of an aura. Please, understand that I do NOT agree with GH in its present iteration.

Adittionally, we have absolutely no idea about the changes to come for marksmen and hunters so it is premature to talk about what should be changed on knights until we know where hunters stand in this update.
Patience. I just don't have the time to post extensively on the subject now.

Art

[NotScias]

There's another thing that I find wrong. That's about Splinter Wall.

The current splinter wall is an aura that does 100-150 pierce on very close enemies for 30 seconds,
The version on Amun is not an aura (area dot), that does 60-120 pierce for 10 seconds.

So, you divide its duration by 3 but you also reduce its damage, so really there's something I don't understand here because the current version is really far to be OP and is almost not used at all, because it does pitiful damage on most of the targets except low mages due to its piercing nature and the armors, but now you propose a new splinter wall with nerfed duration AND damage ? Really I don't get it...

I did some tests with lvl5 splinter on unranked mobs : around 20/tick, on lvl50 unbuffed knight : 15 / tick, and same thing on guards, for 10 seconds...

It was already a lame spell and you made it even worse... Of course now this ex-aura spell won't eat the server CPU since nobody will ever use it.

It would have been more logical to increase the damage instead of nerfing it (and it's even needed due to the armor increase/fix), just to make this spell worth something...


Then, there's some positionning issues (see attachs), esp when guards go back to their initial position, you see that they get stuck on wall, but in fact they are really back to their initial position

And some log issues, spells not appearing in log (last attach)

[ncvr]

Conjus NEED to be able to do some light tanking. It doesn't matter what areas/auras/CCs you give other classes. In a game like this, they will NOT be able to fully protect conjus. Any class can put out enough pressure while conserving mana to force a conju to retreat/cast SS. Marksmen, even in their miserable state, can put enough pressure on a conju with only a few normal hits to stop him healing allies and start healing and buffing themselves. That's not how it should be.

[ayexeyen_]

(Just a note about the tone. I am trying to be constructive and calm, maybe doesn't seem so but it is because my bad english)

Hello everyone!
We have been working like crazy.


Thanks for that, I hope that these changes can improve the gameplay but unfortunately I continue to see my class (the barbarians) as a underdogs.

Here now my observations:


We also changed from a Casting time to a casting speed model, for both normal attacks and spells.
Arcane devotion has been increased by 2 to cope with this new non-linear model. Other speed altering spells will be adjusted like this soon.


As I can see you have increase arcane devotion to compensate the change.
You say also "Other speed altering spells will be adjusted like this soon."
Do you mean that you will change also Thirst for blood? Because this spell give also attack speed. I see that you have changed it in someway but why not increase by 2 the speed bonus?


Warriors:


Typhoon: Enhanced chances from level 1 to 4 (50, 60, 70, 80%) and reduced at level 5 (90%).

Mind squasher: A bug has been corrected that might prevent this spell to work as intended

Thunder strike: Adjusted Stun Chances from level 1 to 5 (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%).

Martial reflexes: A bug has been corrected that might prevent this spell to work as intended



You have nerfed a bit thunder strike, now at level 5 it doesn't have anymore the 100% of probability to stun...
Practically it's a nerf on a warrior ability. I am not so happy of that... However we have to test it, maybe in the new landscape the warriors are better than before.
About mind squasher and martial reflexes, what have you changed? Were them broken? If martial reflexes did not increase the critical as intended probably also "Execution" doesn't.


Barbarians:

Thirst for blood: It can be cast regardless of the weapon round.
Rage of the earth: Chance of knock down progression changed from levels 1 to 5 (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%).



Thanks for the change in rage of the earth, the problem for this skill is also that it doesn't do so much damage and often
people use expansive wave instead of rage.

Now, sorry, but I have some criticisms...

Have you think to something for the Spear tree? At the moment the spears are really bad for warriors.

About old objects.
I paid for good objects from Lucky box, some of them give cast speed and attack speed. With these changes you are substantially changing my objects, that doesn't seem right for me. As someone have already suggested (look here: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=62826) I think that you should double the speed of the objects, but only for the objects that have been bought in the past. Also the RoL now is less effective (making Ignis weaker), will you double its AS?

You have think a lot about knights, they are important but, again, what about barbarians?

This threads in the balance section are really interesting:

(By Arafails):
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=723531&postcount=1

(By Mattdoesrock):
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=909508&postcount=1

Let me know what do you think.

[Isemon]

yea about items i feel the same, i bought ximerin to engrave gems, and to buy gems that in next update will have half of the effect they have now. I feel like NGD stole my money. Is this the way you like to behave to your customers?

[ieti]

Calm down everyone.

For me idea of converting GH to area is nice - it just needs more duration OR smaller cooldown. Bad part is we loose 1 regen in case of danger. Please reconsider returning back regen self prebuff. Regen ally can stay as is. I think we can live with that. This is not the main problem this class have.

First warriors will now hit and cast while moving, so conjus will need faster casts so they can protect self. Please consider faster and bigger self heals. We will need some more and faster self heals, because we will have faster and more deadly warriors on us. You know the old rule - conjus first!

Second gameplay will be alot more active. Me personally hardly manage to heal myself one ally if hardly targeted. I can not even save one ally. Once again faster, cheaper, bigger heals and less cooldowns.

Main problems conjurers have now are slow casts - we use devotion to make it somehow better(i use 40%cs + 12% on staff and i'm fine, i do not think every conju have access to such staff), before i needed only fast staff to cast with same speed. We suffer from cooldowns on support spells - our allies die even if we do our best to save it, we die because our defense spells are slow to cast and too expansive. Mana problems - with our main spells made more expensive we are constantly low on mana, but everyone expect us to heal and support. Old MC was too good - please reconsider it 500 - 600 instant area so we can cope with increased mana usage, pull down mana usage of heals and dispell, so we will not need to constantly watch our mana, and conserve for 1 sanct or Steel skin.

I suppose NGD want conjus to team with support knights. Maybe this will be good if knights want to be support and want to support conjurers with auras and protection. Then we will tank because of knight auras and if things go bad we will use our sorcery spells. This can work maybe we will see. We just need something to be done so knight and conjus supportive sides to be made better and more more appealing. I'm usually glad to have some supportive teammates who protect me. I spare all my mana to help them.

So calm down and wait a little - do not act so impulsive we still do not see whole picture. Please be nice, supportive and if something is not right i know NGD will listen to us so all will be alright.

[Gabburtjuh]

my biggest problem is terrors wills till overlap, which is the whole problem of terror, and gh worries me to, since alsius already lacks in support conjs most of the time.

[e30G]

(moving it to it's own thread)

[Vroek]

(About old objects.
I paid for good objects from Lucky box, some of them give cast speed and attack speed. With these changes you are substantially changing my objects, that doesn't seem right for me. As someone have already suggested (look here: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=62826) I think that you should double the speed of the objects, but only for the objects that have been bought in the past. Also the RoL now is less effective (making Ignis weaker), will you double its AS?

Making ingis weaker?
Everyone finally get the chance to acquire this RoL item.

Double AS is really not the way, Arcane devotion is just doubled at lvl 5 you know.
15% AS is still almost 13% old AS, why make worth 23%?
30% AS is still 23 % old AS.
40% AS is still 29 % old AS.

Id say leave the AS speed spells and AS/CS items as they are. (Except maybe hawks gaze, since it a lvl 19)
AS is still really good and it not AS vs CS anyway.

CS speed items take much bigger hit due to Arcane devotion, but think we can all agree its justified to nerf extreme cast speeds.
I think CS Items could be changed 1% to 1.5% because of this.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I agree that slower cast times are sort of the point of this update and doubling existing items (as show above) is way ott.

Barbarians:

* Thirst for blood: It can be cast regardless of the weapon round.
* Rage of the earth: Chance of knock down progression changed from levels 1 to 5 (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%).


TFB: What does this change meen?

Roth: So thats a 90% chance of a 10 second knockdown? At first glace that sounds a bit much but for level 19 2H (which you need sacrifices to get) 350 mana and a weird not-quite arc but sort of arcish area it should be all right, Ill probably give it a go.

[ncvr]

I assume the TFB change means that TFB's cast ignores the current attack cycle, like kick.

[ayexeyen_]

Making ingis weaker?
Everyone finally get the chance to acquire this RoL item.

Double AS is really not the way, Arcane devotion is just doubled at lvl 5 you know.
15% AS is still almost 13% old AS, why make worth 23%?
30% AS is still 23 % old AS.
40% AS is still 29 % old AS.

Id say leave the AS speed spells and AS/CS items as they are. (Except maybe hawks gaze, since it a lvl 19)
AS is still really good and it not AS vs CS anyway.

CS speed items take much bigger hit due to Arcane devotion, but think we can all agree its justified to nerf extreme cast speeds.
I think CS Items could be changed 1% to 1.5% because of this.

Yeah maybe double is not the right way but maybe increase a bit the speed of the objs would be better.

I did a summary of the changes in the system. As you can see with the new system everything is slower.

For the old system:
Time of buff= Nominal time * (base_buffing_velocity-bonus)
For the new system:
Time of buff= Nominal time/(base_buffing_velocity+bonus)

(where base_buffing_velocity should be in general equal to 1).

According to the post that I have cited, if one have 75% of cast speed bonus a player can (for example) cast sultar in:
3*(1-0.75)= 0.75 seconds (that correspond with the value of Narzoul in his post).
Now, let's take his example of the car.
You have to cover 300 km, and you travel at 100km/h, so it take 3 hours. Now you increase your speed of 100%, and you go at 200 km/h (quite fast!! :p ).
You cover that distance in 1.5 hours and that correspond to the formula.

I have put a graph of how these changes will influence the casting (buffing?) time for example for a buff of 3 seconds.
But maybe I am wrong and I will appreciate if someone could correct me.

[doppelapfel]

I paid for good objects from Lucky box, some of them give cast speed and attack speed. With these changes you are substantially changing my objects, that doesn't seem right for me. As someone have already suggested (look here: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=62826) I think that you should double the speed of the objects, but only for the objects that have been bought in the past. Also the RoL now is less effective (making Ignis weaker), will you double its AS?


Im a lock with +17% cs on gear, i bought a socket and spent magnas to get the staff and gloves and i completly agree with letting it as it is. It still gives you a good advantage, too good before.
Doubling the effect of the old items and not giving new players a chance to get those would be insane unfair.

[_Nel_]

Im a lock with +17% cs on gear, i bought a socket and spent magnas to get the staff and gloves and i completly agree with letting it as it is. It still gives you a good advantage, too good before.
Doubling the effect of the old items and not giving new players a chance to get those would be insane unfair.

I don't agree.

If you already have +100% cs (arcane 5), giving +17*2% cs won't change so much.
You go from 46% casting time [ 1/(1+1.17) = 0.46 ] to 42% casting time [ 1/(1+1.34) = 0.42 ] (you can check with this post (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=62826)).
That means a spell with 3s casting time will be cast in 1.26 sec instead of 1.38 sec (diff. 0.12 sec).
Remember, before the change you had -67% casting time, the same spell as above was cast in 1 sec.

But on the other hand, if you have +0% cs (archers and warriors), giving +17*2% cs is a good thing.
You go from 85% casting time [ 1/(1+0.17 = 0.85 ] to 75% casting time [ 1/(1+0.34) = 0.75 ].
That means a spell with 3s casting time will be cast in 2.25 sec instead of 2.55 sec (diff. 0.30 sec).

With this kind of behaviour, having a good +cast speed can become an opportunity for non-mage classes.

[Seher]

My lock gear provides 18/19%, and I LOVE this change, items are far too powerful.

I really hope fixing rings and amuletts is on your list, too, by the way.

[Isemon]

I would have agreed with a cap on cast speed, so that if someone had bought items could still use them to gain 1 or 2 points from arcane devotion to spend somewhere else, but the change that NGD is imposing is unfair since they changed devotion effect and they are not doing the same for items. Since the item will have HALF effect, it is not the same item i payed for, so give me back money or give me the item i payed for.

so, in my eyes, this make NGD THIEVES, because they are selling a thing that is good, then they change it in worse. This is totally UNFAIR.

[Arafails]

so, in my eyes, this make NGD THIEVES, because they are selling a thing that is good, then they change it in worse. This is totally UNFAIR.

But it's still better than not having it, yes?

[Gabburtjuh]

times change, if you buy a pc now its worse in 3 years XD

[tjanex]

I don't think it is that bad

[metsie]

I would have agreed with a cap on cast speed, so that if someone had bought items could still use them to gain 1 or 2 points from arcane devotion to spend somewhere else, but the change that NGD is imposing is unfair since they changed devotion effect and they are not doing the same for items. Since the item will have HALF effect, it is not the same item i payed for, so give me back money or give me the item i payed for.

so, in my eyes, this make NGD THIEVES, because they are selling a thing that is good, then they change it in worse. This is totally UNFAIR.

+1

It's not fair to weaken stuff that people have paid for. If this update makes old AS stuff almost useless, it sucks if somebody have spend lot of time to find bow with +5as and lot of time+money to find 6-7as gem and socket it, even with the old system +11/12as didn't do much so if it gets even worse = bullshit :(

and same with cs stuff, if somebody spend his time&money to find cs stuff instead of mana items, and after update mana stuff is way more usefull than very small difference in cast speeds = money back! :(

it's easy to say that "woo woo good update" if somebody haven't spend money in the game :P If there is option to buy stuff with money, NGD should not change items afterwards, after all it's not buyers fault if somebody didn't want to buy boxes with real money, everybody had that chance.

[Recoil]

even with the old system +11/12as didn't do much

lol really? xD

[Shwish]

It's not fair to weaken stuff that people have paid for. If this update makes old AS stuff almost useless, it sucks if somebody have spend lot of time to find bow with +5as and lot of time+money to find 6-7as gem and socket it, even with the old system +11/12as didn't do much so if it gets even worse = bullshit :(


i'm not sure if its just me, but i seem to be hitting alot faster with my shortbow on amun than i do on horus

[theotherhiveking]

There are people who have paid lots of money to level, pimp up, empower their non mage classes, and then they find the get pwned by the premium warlocks, being premium themselves now.

So, i want to play, i payed for my barb, but i still cant play because there are premium mages around pwning me before i can even get close. Hence, ngd is 'stealing' from me.

Not only mages buy premium, you know.
Plus mages 'premium' its far more effective that anything that the other classes can buy, with a big difference.

Its amazing how one-sided people views are.

So, yeah, good update.

I'm not sure if its just me, but i seem to be hitting alot faster with my shortbow on amun than i do on horus

The attack speed formula was changed too, the bonuses still need to be doubled.

[metsie]

lol really? xD

Yes really :guitar:

I got two fast 20, one with +11as and +31 damage, one with +0as +55 damage and in my small scale tests that +11as alone didn't do anything that I could really notice.

My point is that we already have tons of items that are useless because of +1% resist to something and if most of as/cs stuff joins that club, is there anything left :P

From "op" to useless ain't the best move. (IMO there isn't but few OP items anyway, and usually it's because one person has many "op" items combined)

AND if armors give more protection now does that mean that fast items will be useless with new system?

I can't test these things at amun atm, so im just speculating this :P Tomorrow im back home so I will see if I shoot tiny damage as slow as turtle or is it nothing like that :biggrin:

[metsie]

There are people who have paid lots of money to level, pimp up, empower their non mage classes, and then they find the get pwned by the premium warlocks, being premium themselves now.

So, i want to play, i payed for my barb, but i still cant play because there are premium mages around pwning me before i can even get close. Hence, ngd is 'stealing' from me.

Not only mages buy premium, you know.
Plus mages 'premium' its far more effective that anything that the other classes can buy, with a big difference.

Its amazing how one-sided people views are.

So, yeah, good update.



The attack speed formula was changed too, the bonuses still need to be doubled.

Are you sure you could pown mage that has 0% cs items? IMO 66% cs that I have -> 50% and still it would be enough to cc warriors and win, so that is not the problem.

I have spend maybe 50euros to my warlock and 300 to my marks, so my view is at least two sided :P

what happens to other classes and their as/cs items that do already less than mage items if system changes radically = they become far more less usefull than now

[Isemon]

There are people who have paid lots of money to level, pimp up, empower their non mage classes, and then they find the get pwned by the premium warlocks, being premium themselves now.

So, i want to play, i payed for my barb, but i still cant play because there are premium mages around pwning me before i can even get close. Hence, ngd is 'stealing' from me.

Not only mages buy premium, you know.
Plus mages 'premium' its far more effective that anything that the other classes can buy, with a big difference.

Its amazing how one-sided people views are.

So, yeah, good update.



The attack speed formula was changed too, the bonuses still need to be doubled.

I have 6 characters, 2 still to become 50, but i payed for all of them, and NGD should buff up warriors instead of nerfing all other classes but no, they prefer nerf 4 classes on 6 instead of buffing 2. And they can't seel a thing and change it later.

[Vroek]

I think it very likely that NGD will increase the CS bonus, otherwise they will surely suffer from less item sales.

It would be quite stupid to not make ~20% CS worth while, atm its like 5% cast time with lvl 5 AD it should be close to 10% at least, which means it has to be doubled to be attractive.

Then again its of course possible that NGD plan to add more advanced item upgrades (They certainly hinted something like this, when we asked them to cap item bonuses). Making people pay once more for these upgrades, then the question is more if we will be duped to do so once more or if we will be completely fed up leaving RO to rot.

In a commercial point of view, I think it would be more cleaver to leave AD lvl5 at 80%, and double the CS bonus on items.
That way new people will still try to get some CS gear, you keep other customers fairly happy and there is still some possibility left for more item upgrades.

[BigManOnCampus]

Warriors:


...
Martial reflexes: A bug has been corrected that might prevent this spell to work as intended



I just did a quick test of this on Amun.
With MR5 -> 16 out of 96 landed blows were critical
without MR5 -> 9 out of 91 landed blows were critical

However, that's 500 mana for 7 more *landed* (ignoring evades/blocks) strikes out of 90+ that were critical. 500 mana? really? Even barbs would never use that at that mana cost.

[Recoil]

I just did a quick test of this on Amun.
With MR5 -> 16 out of 96 landed blows were critical
without MR5 -> 9 out of 91 landed blows were critical

However, that's 500 mana for 7 more *landed* (ignoring evades/blocks) strikes out of 90+ that were critical. 500 mana? really? Even barbs would never use that at that mana cost.

do 1000, report

[BigManOnCampus]

do 1000, report

Do you ever use it?

[UmarilsStillHere]

My combat log dosnt work on imcoming damage, doing some tests with Lumi and only 1 out of about 30 South Cross's have regestered in the log. Both my kicks on Lumi showed up fine however.

[Recoil]

Do you ever use it?

I tried it but did not document the results.

[linearguild]

It's a small thing but the values for Global Cooldown should be given in absolute values. Please say how many seconds instead of cryptic phrases like "long", "normal", "very short", etc.

[bois]

I was going to post a follow up but I have decided to hold on this a bit. Many have stated their positions and as such I think it would be prudent to wait until iteration #2 before saying too much.

I will say that the issue with greater healing is very complex and goes way beyond the spell itself. It will impact how RvR is conducted on the whole and the relationship between conjurers and other classes that shield them in war. The changes to tunic protection,CS, AS, areas, auras may very well shape in a large way how greater healing works in a RvR environment.In the mix is how players skill and play together. This factor will be crucial. The only true way to test it may be to stage an event on Amun to see the real impact of these changes on war.

I would cautiously remind everyone that this iteration is a first draft and probably will not go live before many tweaks are done. Be guided as such.

Art

[Recoil]

It's a small thing but the values for Global Cooldown should be given in absolute values. Please say how many seconds instead of cryptic phrases like "long", "normal", "very short", etc.

Record a video, analyze it frame by frame in video editor. Post your findings :)

[Kittypretty]

We propose to add 5 levels of global cooldown

very long (3 seconds)
Long (2.5 seconds)
Normal (2 seconds)
short (1.5 second)
very short (1.0 seconds)

Well thats what Chilko said in another topic (the gcd one..if this is what you mean)

Afaik they werent implemented yet, though they were labeled to be in the future. But I don't know for sure.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I can notice some differance in gcd between casting a buff with very short gcd and a attack spell with normal, so I think it is active on Amun.

[Zordak]

I can notice some differance in gcd between casting a buff with very short gcd and a attack spell with normal, so I think it is active on Amun.

It is active, its very noticeable on regen self/heal self vs. the corresponding *ally spells.

Z.

[Recoil]

Nerf of conjurers = nerf of barbarians... You better not screw this one up NGD.

[linearguild]

We propose to add 5 levels of global cooldown

very long (3 seconds)
Long (2.5 seconds)
Normal (2 seconds)
short (1.5 second)
very short (1.0 seconds)

Well thats what Chilko said in another topic (the gcd one..if this is what you mean)

Afaik they werent implemented yet, though they were labeled to be in the future. But I don't know for sure.

I know the values are posted, but why do I need to read a forum thread just to translate the word values to seconds? Majority of players don't even read the forums. The numbers should be in game.

[Mikan]

I know the values are posted, but why do I need to read a forum thread just to translate the word values to seconds? Majority of players don't even read the forums. The numbers should be in game.
I prefer simplistic, abstract representations. If people want the technical details, they can simply read the wiki.

[linearguild]

I prefer simplistic, abstract representations. If people want the technical details, they can simply read the wiki.

I don't think this is on the same technical level as the percent contribution of each armor piece to total armor points calculation, the regen rate of mana complete with video evidence, or the length of attack rounds for each weapon speed down to two decimal places.

It's basic information in the same group as character statistics, damage numbers, cast times, cooldowns and durations. This info should be accessible in a non-abstracted way without having to visit external sites.

Even armor values that go from "very good" to "very bad" are anchored on a visible number.

[tjanex]

I know the values are posted, but why do I need to read a forum thread just to translate the word values to seconds? Majority of players don't even read the forums. The numbers should be in game.

That's correct I think surely 80% of the people in Regnum don't even read the forum :(

[Pakos]

when its gonna be released?

[Fartnos]

I was wondering if since the greater healing time was being nerfed then also are you going to shorten the ridiculous cool down time. Also is there any truth to the changes that are gonna be made to warju/grind set-up for conjurers?IE summons or no summons.It has been rumored that a conjurer with a summons has greater range than any other classes,but have you ever herd of a warjurer making a big difference in wars,with or without a summons they are the weakest of all classes and I hope no changes will tie conjurers down to simply being a support class only.I have conjurer characters and do not want any changes done that might cause them not to be able to grind or fight.

[VandaMan]

with or without a summons they are the weakest of all classes

LOL wtf? A warju with a summon has the best defenses, crowd controls, and nearly the best damage output of any class.

[Kittypretty]

I am really really looking forward to the resist and evade rate change.
I am sick of,

Dying when a mob repeatedly beats on you, while you stand there swinging, missing, resisted hits.

Should have been done ages ago though honestly..with the amount of complaints, specially for melee classes, which need to have a higher population anyways.

[ncvr]

with or without a summons they are the weakest of all classes
With or without summons, only a terribad warju could lose to any non-hunter 1v1. If NGD suddenly decided that balance was now based on 1v1, warjus would lose all of their dominance in 1v1 fast. Just be glad NGD doesn't see complete control over a 1v1 situation imbalancing.

I don't want to restrict setup options for conjus either. But warju setups are really similar to SotW - near useless in an RvR setting and completely overpowered in 1vs1 against certain classes (against more classes than SotW is, actually). That's not really good for an RvR game.

[Shwish]

I am really really looking forward to the resist and evade rate change.
I am sick of,

Dying when a mob repeatedly beats on you, while you stand there swinging, missing, resisted hits.

Should have been done ages ago though honestly..with the amount of complaints, specially for melee classes, which need to have a higher population anyways.

and when an enemy with less than 5% hp manages to get away safely because he evaded 5 of my hits