Too much complaining for one update

[Altara]

Keep in mind: When I say the word "you" Im talking about the RO community in general, not you specifically.


Many things (not all) people have been complaining about, NGD is changing.
Just look at all the older threads in the complaint book and you will see they are changing things to keep the general populous happy, but you can’t make everyone happy.
Let’s set up a score board:
Disclaimer: remember this is generalization.
Hunters - 0 Marksmen - 0 Barbarians - 0 Knights - 0 Conjurers - 0 Warlocks - 0

People complained about hunters with pets being over powered. Well now they have to choose between stealth and having a pet.
Hunters - -1 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 1 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 1 Warlocks - 1

Mages and hunters complained about warriors(mainly barbs) damage, warriors damge decreased.
Hunters - 0 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 0 Knights - 0 Conjurers - 2 Warlocks - 2

Terror nerf, Most are indifferent since it still knocks down, but since knocks don’t stack anymore it shouldn’t matter. Warlocks are still upset though
Hunters - 0 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 0 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 2 Warlocks - 1

Attack speed increase for all classes +1 to all except mages since they are mainly spells (sorry sm mages)
Hunters - 1 Marksmen - 2 Barbarians - 1 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 2 Warlocks - 1

Archer damage decrease, range increase.
Hunters - 0 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 1 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 2 Warlocks - 1

Those are some of the biggest nerfs, as I’ve seen and over all it looks pretty balanced.
If we think about fractions for a moment, what you do to the denominator you have to do to the numerator. Everyone is getting a damage nerf. Everyone’s Armour is being increased. That’s the thing about "balance" is that everyone should be equal.
The way I see it NGD is trying to get it that way, after years of some being over powered and most not.
Change IS scary and yes it’s good to voice your opinion, but enough with the complaints and threats to not buy xim or quit.
Just think, at least they are TRYING to change the game and TRYING to balance it.
I say keep an open mind, give constructive advice instead of complaints. What you would like to see, because NGD does listen *coughs* Terror nerf *cough*
Im scared too but you have to remember, its their game. And look at the brighter side of things! No more troll tards uncamoing on you while you’re grinding ;p
/ends rant
Flame away.

[Recoil]

Sense. This thread makes none.

[Altara]

To sum it up for you Lumi,
stop throwing a hissy fit, cause bad things are happening to all classes, as well as good
hissssssss

[Recoil]

To sum it up for you Lumi,
stop throwing a hissy fit, cause bad things are happening to all classes, as well as good
hissssssss

Hisssssssssss

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

im just angry because my favorite class, barbarians, are going to have no killing power at all.

[Godot]

+1 (10 characters)

[VandaMan]

I think at times like these it's important to remember to check the expiration dates on your milk.

[Yttrium]

Well said, Altara.

[Mikan]

As I've said before, complaining about other players is no different from them complaining about NGD.

[Nekoko]

Useless thread is useless.

[Topogigio_BR]

Keep in mind: When I say the word "you" Im talking about the RO community in general, not you specifically.


Many things (not all) people have been complaining about, NGD is changing.
Just look at all the older threads in the complaint book and you will see they are changing things to keep the general populous happy, but you can’t make everyone happy.
Let’s set up a score board:
Disclaimer: remember this is generalization.
Hunters - 0 Marksmen - 0 Barbarians - 0 Knights - 0 Conjurers - 0 Warlocks - 0

People complained about hunters with pets being over powered. Well now they have to choose between stealth and having a pet.
Hunters - -1 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 1 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 1 Warlocks - 1

Mages and hunters complained about warriors(mainly barbs) damage, warriors damge decreased.
Hunters - 0 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 0 Knights - 0 Conjurers - 2 Warlocks - 2

Terror nerf, Most are indifferent since it still knocks down, but since knocks don’t stack anymore it shouldn’t matter. Warlocks are still upset though
Hunters - 0 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 0 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 2 Warlocks - 1

Attack speed increase for all classes +1 to all except mages since they are mainly spells (sorry sm mages)
Hunters - 1 Marksmen - 2 Barbarians - 1 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 2 Warlocks - 1

Archer damage decrease, range increase.
Hunters - 0 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 1 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 2 Warlocks - 1

Those are some of the biggest nerfs, as I’ve seen and over all it looks pretty balanced.
If we think about fractions for a moment, what you do to the denominator you have to do to the numerator. Everyone is getting a damage nerf. Everyone’s Armour is being increased. That’s the thing about "balance" is that everyone should be equal.
The way I see it NGD is trying to get it that way, after years of some being over powered and most not.
Change IS scary and yes it’s good to voice your opinion, but enough with the complaints and threats to not buy xim or quit.
Just think, at least they are TRYING to change the game and TRYING to balance it.
I say keep an open mind, give constructive advice instead of complaints. What you would like to see, because NGD does listen *coughs* Terror nerf *cough*
Im scared too but you have to remember, its their game. And look at the brighter side of things! No more troll tards uncamoing on you while you’re grinding ;p
/ends rant
Flame away.

Agree with you Altara, but till now, stage 4, i just dont know how my marks will avoid beeing killed by a barb with UM or a knight with DI. I cant outdamage, cant outrun and cant stop then. Is just sit and die.

[Kittypretty]

Balance doesnt necessarily mean everyones equal. if that were true, we'd all have the same dmg, the same hp. the same mana ect..
Balance is about fitting all these unique pieces together like a jigsaw puzzle till they fit nicely into whatever picture you are creating. That is why people are mad, because its the first approach to things thats being taken.

silly thread.

[Froste]

Useless thread is useless.

Impertinent post is impertinent.

[bois]

Proportionately speaking, the update does not have any more complaining than any other update that preceded it. It just so happens that there are so many changes that every class now has something that they feel they should complain about. The complaint per change ratio is really no higher.

Even I managed to jump the gun a bit and while I did not complain or threatened any action I felt the need to respond when NGD did a 1/2 way iteration. I fully expected Hunters, Summons and marks to be touched yet human nature still got the better of me and I raised concerns about Knight at least 2 times.

While there is a heap of complaining and such, not every person here is 30+ years old and as such have the required patience that comes with age. We will see it, it can't be helped.

Most times change is difficult. What makes it worse is that you don't
A: Understand the mechanics of the change,
B: Understand why the change is needed,
C: Understand where the change is leading to,
D: Understand where you fit in the change.

The fear of the unknown is a powerful thing.

While I play this game in the RvR philosophy of it and actually care if my realm mates of different classes can succeed and even my opponents succeed, a few are much more concerned about their personal role (class) rather that what the team can do. As I always said , This game is predicated and weighed heavily to RvR balance over PvP balance. All players should be guided by this.

With all this said, NGD has done a reasonably good job with this update so far. This is based on the hints of the directions that they are taking.
However, communication while steadily improving, still could use a tweak here and there .
Now I know that they don't really have time but telling us the change log without actually giving insight as to where they are going may lead to concerns. Concerns which might be unfounded if we knew where the endgame lies.
My suggestion to NGD staff is this: Don't react to posts. Be proactive. Sometimes if I have a long post and don't have time, I write it up in notepad and leave it unfinished. When I get a moment, I add a little more and revise what I already did. I suggest writing up a few concreted formulas for players to test and more importantly understand the science behind it. Leave the formulas in notepad till you are satisfied. Do not post till you are satisfied. If you do this little by little you would have made a mini guide without having to sit down and type it up in a go.
A file for formulas.
A file for vision.
A file for the change log.

Finally, the devs should open a sub forum that they alone post to which details all change logs, concrete changes, formulas, vision/roadmap . This can be placed in the beginners area. Q and A will be answered in the questions section. Heavily moderated and strict. Trolls are dealt the heavy hand of the law here.

If you structure it this way, it will not seem a herculean task to do. In fact you would feel it less.
If you feel that compiling may be too much then , jot each change and give the finished scrap notes a responsible Community volunteer to either translate, compile, clean up, sanitise and make palatable to the average user. The finished product returns to you guys to pass and then you have something. I am not talking trade secret stuff here, just things that would make hard core and even casual players improve their game. Give them the tools to improve their game and you just might build loyalty.

Who knows it is so crazy it just might work.

To players: What I have done is this. Understand the past in this game. Acknowledge the sum total of my knowledge and experience to the point of the live server.
Throw out the whole thing in my mind and come to Amun as if it is a blank slate and with an open mind. Rebuild knowledge based on the new concepts here and have my past experience and knowledge colour it.
Come to terms with conceptual changes and understand that in many ways this game is new and as such many of us will have to start again.
Essential point, start again as if this is a new game. In many respects it is.

Good luck everyone and may clarity that comes with starting over guide you an colour your future posts.

Artec.

[VandaMan]

Impertinent post is impertinent.

Big word is big O.O

[Altara]

Impertinent post is impertinent.

Couldnt agree more.


On topic:
I think alot of you are misunderstanding me.
I never said my score board was to the point, or that I studied RO for hours and made it to tell you exactly what the score is, I whipped that up in under a minute. :sifflote:
Balance doesnt necessarily mean everyones equal.
And yes, actually Balance does in fact equal... well equal. Have you seen a scale? you cant have anymore on one side then it does on the other without tipping it, cause then it would be unbalanced.

if that were true, we'd all have the same dmg, the same hp. the same mana ect..
Balance is about fitting all these unique pieces together like a jigsaw puzzle till they fit nicely into whatever picture you are creating


And this isn't true either. though I agree with the last part, its about balancing damage and Armour and skills not mana hp. Like say, a barb has no range, yet an archer can get 40+ range. So a barb has to somehow get to that archer, while hes chipping away at his health (spring/UM) and try and kill him. that is how it should be, to give the barb a fair chance.

Though the communication is a little rough, they are still doing their best.
Ill say this again since alot are misunderstanding me.
Im tired of people complaining because they are getting what they want, but also getting somethings they dont want where as on the other side of things people want what you dont. Ill use an example, again.


People complained about hunters with pets being over powered. Well now they have to choose between stealth and having a pet.
Hunters - -1 Marksmen - 1 Barbarians - 1 Knights - 1 Conjurers - 1 Warlocks - 1


You see? hunters arent happy, but the rest are. Thats really what the scoreboard is.
Hopefully you understand now. ^^

[bois]

To be honest I didn't get the score board but I got what you were saying.

Realistically speaking , based on the track record of the forum and the sheer scale of the update I don't see too much abatement happening just yet. Would it be nice? Sure. Constructive posts ? Sounds good. Will it happen considering the diversity of posters here? Unlikely.

Hopefully as this update closes in on a nexus the complaints will become less and less, hopefully because of satisfaction rather than frustration.

Several iterations to come still . Let's see how it goes.

Art.

[A_K_M]

I dont really care what happens to the other classes, because conjurers are my speciality.

That being said, I dont like the fact they are trying to "balence" it. Technically the very sence of the word screws up the entire game. Your deffinition of it being "everyone being equal" means that Conjurers should be able to kill barbarians. That just wouldnt be fun. I like haveing to run from barbs, staying away from marks, watching my blindside for a hutner. Its just fun for me. If I die due to my own incompetence then its my own damn fualt. And if I die because Im supposed to die, then so be it. If they "balence" it then there wont be much of a game... Barbs should do a LOT of damage, Knights should have a lot of defence. Every class should have its own speciality. Its own edge against another class. It dosnt make sence to "balence" it.

I have been playing for a while now and I have found it dosnt make much difference... We adapt to the rules given to us. If they nerf the class, you should start looking for alternative ways to play...or just quit. I have started looking into "experimental" setups as a conjurer. Instead of playing on the forums, play the game.

Good luck to everyone in the upcomeing update... Ill be the one running in the other direction towards the fort.

-AKM(Ignis)

P.S. Regenerate Ally...It does a bit more then GH, if you have 3 conjurers useing it, itll be better the GH..If you have each conjurer rotateing regen ally as people enter the fort or in the field