New Balance Update: more adjustments and a new spell (phase 7)

[chilko]

Hello everyone

We have made some more adjustments to the numbers behind hit chance and evasion. Same chances as before, but using clearer multipliers.
Base blocking chance of all shields have been halved to provide the same results as in RA but using the new formulas.

Protections are going to be adjusted in general considering the armor increase, especially for mages.

Spell Changes:


Force armor: duration increased to 60 seconds Cooldown increased to 70s. Protection reduced to 10-30%
Precise block: Same duration for all levels (30s). Block chance adjusted 10%-30% from level 1 to 5.
Dead Eye: speed penalty reduced to 5%- 15% from level 1 to 5.
Steel Skin: Resistance Bonus reduced to 50%-70% from level 1 to 5
Heroic Presence: Cooldown reduced to 120 seconds. Cast time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Protection reduced 40% - 80% from level 1 to 5. Mana reduced to 320 – 400 from level 1 to 5.
Army of One: changed for a more tactical use. Duration Reduced to 10 seconds in all levels. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. Casting time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Mana reduced in all levels to 320 to 400 from levels 1 to 5. (try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)
Natural Armor: Protection reduced to 10% to 30%.
New Spell for hunters: Reveal Enemy. Allows a Hunter to interrupt the effect of camouflage, Stalker Surroundings , and camouflage corps. Duration 15-50 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds. Mana 200-300.
Enhanced Stalker Surroundings: Now caster and his allies can move with a reduced speed of 40%. Allies loose the effect if they get 10 meters away from caser for a period of 5 seconds.
BUG fix: a bug with Recharged Arrows when running out of mana has been fixed.

[_Enio_]

BUG fix: a bug with Recharged Arrows when running out of mana has been fixed.


Confirmed, thank you.

[fluffy_muffin]

Enhanced Stalker Surroundings: Now caster and his allies can move with a reduced speed of 40%. Allies loose the effect if they get 10 meters away from caser for a period of 5 seconds.
[/LIST]

Thank You for that. I hope that all players under stalker will be visible for other party members cause if they will remain invisible for others under stalker then it will be hard to coordinate the movement.
Anyway it is good that this Nessa suggestion was taken serious.

[Ulti19]

Hello everyone


Spell Changes:


Army of One: changed for a more tactical use. Duration Reduced to 10 seconds in all levels. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. Casting time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Mana reduced in all levels to 320 to 400 from levels 1 to 5. (try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)
.[/COLOR]
[/LIST]

I'm really astonished at this change. I beg you not to implement this change. 10 seconds is worthless, i assure you. Please do not do this to the knight class. You took away 40 seconds. For 10 seconds I will be ignored now because my enemy will know, "oh it's a knight just wait a few he will become worthless in a sec." Now you don't even need ms to beat a knight just one strong knock or balestra. Please, please do not do this. If this passes through I assure you I will never play my knight again because I know that in another 4 months perhaps ao1 will be completely taken away and I will be given a stick to fight with (this is how I view this change, sorry for some disrespect but this is a low blow for a class I love to play)

Why didn't you implement Umaril's idea for army of one instead of this? His was much more tactical for a knight though a tad op, but this is making the spell completely useless. And on top of that protector is gone.

I understand this change is preliminary but I voice my opinion because I do not want this action to be even thought of being ok.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

1)Army of One: changed for a more tactical use. Duration Reduced to 10 seconds in all levels. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. Casting time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Mana reduced in all levels to 320 to 400 from levels 1 to 5. (try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)
2)New Spell for hunters: Reveal Enemy. Allows a Hunter to interrupt the effect of camouflage, Stalker Surroundings , and camouflage corps. Duration 15-50 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds. Mana 200-300.
3)Enhanced Stalker Surroundings: Now caster and his allies can move with a reduced speed of 40%. Allies loose the effect if they get 10 meters away from caser for a period of 5 seconds.
[/LIST]

1) wow, you made Ao1 USELESS. PLEASE CHANGE THIS!!! the two other skills you mentioned for this are as far as i can tell, useless.

2) i like this spell, although i think the mana cost is too much

3) also i like what u did with stalker.

[_Enio_]

You should try this first Ulti, with 40s of Ao1 you been ignored and just ms'd way more than it will be now as you have it evry 30s ready again and the short cast time allows you to use it more situational than before.

[chilko]

I'm really astonished at this change. I beg you not to implement this change. 10 seconds is worthless, i assure you. Please do not do this to the knight class. You took away 40 seconds. For 10 seconds I will be ignored now because my enemy will know, "oh it's a knght just wait a few he will become worthless in a sec." Now you don't even need ms to beat a knight just one strong knock or balestra. Please, please do not do this. If this passes through I assure you I will never play my knight again because I know that in another 4 months perhaps ao1 will be completely taken away and I will be given a stick to fight with (this is how I view this change, sorry for some disrespect but this is a low blow for a class I love to play)

Why didn't you implement Umaril's idea for army of one instead of this? His was much more tactical for a knight though a tad op, but this is making the spell completely useless. And on top of that protector is gone.

I understand this change is preliminary but I voice my opinion because I do not want this action to be even thought of being ok.

AO1 is so OP that the other protection and blocking spells are not used at ALL...

please try combining those spells not relying on just one OP spell

[chilko]

Nessa suggestion was taken serious.
we've been debating about doing this since the first iteration of Stalker.
I don't even know who Nessa is, but congratulations Nessa! :)

[Ulti19]

AO1 is so OP that the other protection and blocking spells are not used at ALL...

please try combining those spells not relying on just one OP spell

If you knew me at all you would know I don't rely on only one spell. I am just saying that you are clearly nerfing it by a great deal. And no ms doesn't always undo my ao1, many times it is blocked or resisted or ms doesn't pass through. 10 seconds is far too short even with the new duration of cd. You realise now if a barbarian uses kick 4 on me after I use ao1 it is basically done with, or any range can winter stroke me and I debuff. this is a horrible idea in my opinion.

And chilko, good knights used to use protector and defensive stance and caution and tank well, this option is now gone for us. Taking away army of one basically is what this update will do makes things much worse.

Also the spell was not op at all, plenty of ways a smart player could stop you by outwaiting the 50 sec which took some skill, now no skill will be involved to outlast ao1. Ms, balestra, feint, kick, dlimb and run around abit, plenty of ways to counter. Now just use spring 4 and run for 10 sec. Please rethink this idea.

[UmarilsStillHere]

10sec defence buffs are almost entirely pointless, as Ulti said, people will simply ignore the knight or put him under 1 CC then moving on taking over half its duration. A simple ambush would leave 3 seconds(!!!) of use for army assuming that the hunter hits the knight as soon as its cast.

10sec auras are ok because, well, you cant CC everyone, but for a self buff? I can say both in war and in 1on1 keeping a knight off you for 10 seconds is very easy, even the current ao1 in 1v1 I have no real issues running a knight around for 50sec untill it wears off, 10 is a walk in the park.

And 400 mana for a spell that can be ignored to easily? A mere 100 mana cut in exchange for 40 of the spells duration?

I have yet to try tanking with a rigprep-awareness combo but unless they changed from the liver server versions without me noticing (havent loaded this variation of Amun yet, doing other things) I cant see how that works, 30 sec duration (each) 4 sec cast time (each) so thats 8-9 seconds and over 500 mana to buff these, which basically just give you a slightly better evade chance. Not very reliable, and not very 'knightly.'

Many knights use the other defence spells (caution etc) but, they are not that great, infact they all pale in comparison to Acrobatic (a archer spell!!) and most are not as good as frenzy (a barb spell!!) Ao1 is the last ditch knights have at true 'tanking' this new version is a heavy nerf, no matter how short the CD the mana cost kills it 400 mana every 30 seconds is silly. Without heavy support no knight will be able to use this more than twice in a row, and even then thats with very limited use of other buffs auras and spells.

Knights are the probably the class that most needs to come out of this update better than before, and though grinding is improved and more wep speeds are now usefull, I still think this will end up worse off.

[Dannboy]

Do I get this correctly?
I now have 10 seconds of AoO....costing 400 out of my 1000 something mana?
-.-
Also I wanted Mages to have the reveal enemy, but I guess not ;D
Except for that it looks ok, I guess.

Now lets add auras(areas now) which were about 3-400 mana also? Now all these buffs, 200 mana each. CC, 100-140 each.
I guess ill just stay in the back and cast auras(Areas now\o/) and dance with my buffs on, screaming for mana :D

EDIT:
Testing on Amun now. Lets check if it changes my view :D

EDIT2:
Mhm...My AoO days are over. Not using it any futher in its current state.

[chilko]

Amun is UP!

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

yup, the change to Ao1 is not tactical, it is useless. you cant use army of one effectively in 10 seconds. its not like DPSing where it my only take a few seconds, tanking takes time.

[LupeFiasco]

I'm not a knight but I kinda agree with Ultimate, 10 secs is really too short any archer with lvl 3+ dist shot can just pretty much cancel out Army of One.

[chilko]

Do I get this correctly?
I now have 10 seconds of AoO....costing 400 out of my 1000 something mana?
-.-
Also I wanted Mages to have the reveal enemy, but I guess not ;D
Except for that it looks ok, I guess.

Now lets add auras(areas now) which were about 3-400 mana also? Now all these buffs, 200 mana each. CC, 100-140 each.
I guess ill just stay in the back and cast auras(Areas now\o/) and dance with my buffs on, screaming for mana :D

As always is a first iteration

[Ulti19]

You should try this first Ulti, with 40s of Ao1 you been ignored and just ms'd way more than it will be now as you have it evry 30s ready again and the short cast time allows you to use it more situational than before.

No Enio you are unfortunately wrong in this. Sorry but I've played this class too long and know pretty well how things work and don't work for it. And I'm saying it now, with 10 sec duration no one will bother with me. Again 1 kick and my duration is pretty much up. With my old duration people did try to ms me knock me etc. This basically makes knights a barbarian with similar defense but lacking any sort of offense now. Ao1 was a true tanking spell for a knight to stand in front with protector and use auras,(what we were meant to do) Now there is nothing that comes close.

Again I'm voicing my opinion knowing this is a first draft, but I do not want it to continue this way.

[Dannboy]

No Enio you are unfortunately wrong in this. Sorry but I've played this class too long and know pretty well how things work and don't work for it. And I'm saying it now, with 10 sec duration no one will bother with me. Again 1 kick and my duration is pretty much up. With my old duration people did try to ms me knock me etc. This basically makes knights a barbarian with similar defense but lacking any sort of offense now. Ao1 was a true tanking spell for a knight to stand in front with protector and use auras,(what we were meant to do) Now there is nothing that comes close.

Again I'm voicing my opinion knowing this is a first draft, but I do not want it to continue this way.

We still have Defensive Stance :D Which in my eyes is OP >.>

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

We still have Defensive Stance :D Which in my eyes is OP >.>

dont be sarcastic, NGD will nerf that next.

as always, a first iteration

there seems to be a trend that the first iteration is the one that is implemented

[TheMessenger]

No Enio you are unfortunately wrong in this. Sorry but I've played this class too long and know pretty well how things work and don't work for it. And I'm saying it now, with 10 sec duration no one will bother with me. Again 1 kick and my duration is pretty much up. With my old duration people did try to ms me knock me etc. This basically makes knights a barbarian with similar defense but lacking any sort of offense now. Ao1 was a true tanking spell for a knight to stand in front with protector and use auras,(what we were meant to do) Now there is nothing that comes close.

Again I'm voicing my opinion knowing this is a first draft, but I do not want it to continue this way.

first you get protector nerfed/removed now this, shame on you

[Klutu]

Love all the changes -

Ao1 is going in a better direction but 10 seconds isn't enough imo..

Id rather see

15 duration 30 cooldown

20 duration 40 cooldown

10 seconds really isn't enough

[TheMessenger]

there seems to be a trend that the first iteration is the one that is implemented

what? they have changed many spells that people disagreed with

[Ulti19]

AO1 is so OP that the other protection and blocking spells are not used at ALL...

please try combining those spells not relying on just one OP spell

Also Chilko, you guys took away the only spell that blocked for knight, protector, so I don't see how this argument makes any sense.

[chilko]

there seems to be a trend that the first iteration is the one that is implemented

Please try to be honest... look into all these iterations and you will see a lot of adjustments. look at Dead Eye from 6 to 7 for example.

[Pimousse]

This change in Ao1 seems hurt knights a lot (10 sec and 400 mana ...). But with all the changes, who can predict how gamelpay will be in live with large fight ?

Isn't it time to "test" in live servers ? Why somany change in one go ...

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

AO1 is so OP that the other protection and blocking spells are not used at ALL...

please try combining those spells not relying on just one OP spell

that is because any blocking spells are either useless or not practical. (or being taken out like protector)

[Immune]

Spell Changes:


Force armor: duration increased to 60 seconds Cooldown increased to 70s. Protection reduced to 10-30%
Precise block: Same duration for all levels (30s). Block chance adjusted 10%-30% from level 1 to 5.
Dead Eye: speed penalty reduced to 5%- 15% from level 1 to 5.
Steel Skin: Resistance Bonus reduced to 50%-70% from level 1 to 5
Heroic Presence: Cooldown reduced to 120 seconds. Cast time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Protection reduced 40% - 80% from level 1 to 5. Mana reduced to 320 – 400 from level 1 to 5.
Army of One: changed for a more tactical use. Duration Reduced to 10 seconds in all levels. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. Casting time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Mana reduced in all levels to 320 to 400 from levels 1 to 5. (try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)
Natural Armor: Protection reduced to 10% to 30%.
New Spell for hunters: Reveal Enemy. Allows a Hunter to interrupt the effect of camouflage, Stalker Surroundings , and camouflage corps. Duration 15-50 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds. Mana 200-300.
Enhanced Stalker Surroundings: Now caster and his allies can move with a reduced speed of 40%. Allies loose the effect if they get 10 meters away from caser for a period of 5 seconds.
BUG fix: a bug with Recharged Arrows when running out of mana has been fixed.


Not sure about reducing conjurer defenses... they're already pretty vulnerable. Especially force armor; That was pretty borderline useful as it was. A 10-30% armor bonus I'm afraid will do next to nothing, because a mage's base armor is too low for an armor bonus (especially a small one) to do much for them. I suppose we will see how this plays out in combination with general armor tweaks.

As for Ao1 change, I can't say I support it. Same deal as cold blood: too short a duration for too much mana.

Everything else looks good. I especially like how hunters seem to be taking a possible support role now, I'm eager to try that out.

[Comp]

Slight Balance Issue with Stalker Surroundings

Hunter can use stalker and move ANYWHERE they want with pet. Basically a camo with pet for 5 minutes. This is even more OP then Camo + Pet.

Also, slight change needed for this to work well in RvR. Members needs to be able to see each other in stalker; otherwise, folks will have issues moving - etc.

[Dannboy]

AO1 is so OP that the other protection and blocking spells are not used at ALL...

please try combining those spells not relying on just one OP spell

I gave up on those after you nerfed Blocks to the point of nothing but a dice game. :/
By you I mean NGD ^^
I really like defensive stance tho ^^

[Ulti19]

Something I failed to bring up also is the current mana consumption. I've been playing on mobs and fort guards and 400 mana for every 10 seconds is not possible. Basically, to get the use of my old army of 1, I would have to expend more then 2000 mana. If you plan to reduce the effect to 10 sec I suggest reducing the mana of army of one to a max of 150 for lv 5.

And the duration itself is far too short, if I cast this before charging at an enemy I will already be on cd before I reach them. Only chance is to use this now in a fight already. But in the end it won't matter because my enemies will just wait or knock me once and it will be over. And I will not have another 400 mana to be able to stratigically recast this.

[chilko]

Slight Balance Issue with Stalker Surroundings


Hunter can use stalker and move ANYWHERE they want with pet. Basically a camo with pet for 5 minutes. This is even more OP then Camo + Pet.

We are looking into this, we thought that maybe the 40% speed penalty was good enough to compensate.

[

Also, slight change needed for this to work well in RvR. Members needs to be able to see each other in stalker; otherwise, folks will have issues moving - etc.


we are still developing this feature... of course members will be able to see each other.

[Gabburtjuh]

mheh, been lvling my knight for nothing, and about first and second versions etc, thats worth pants to me, for my main class (hunter) i only saw my playstyle detoriate even more with the later changes(no, i dont have a friggin troll) even less range, hitting 150 on wild sabertooths, nty, i dont like them, for my lock, practicing on horus again, i got spare gear(mana etc) not nerfable, so i can drop my cs gear, and the gcd, well, use spells without a cc effect, shorter gcd, means you can still do a fair bit of dmg, wont differ to much.

@NGD, and whats with things like magn weps, i just got the lb for like a month, and now slow bows will be crap for hunter, and to find something thats worth a magn wep, and that someone wants to trade is very hard, will there be a option to make it a sb? Dont expect much of this, but its worth the shot >.<

[Kyrottimus]

10 seconds of AoO is ridiculous. 400mp is even more ridiculous.

For something that is supposed to be "used more frequently" it could at least cost a lot less mana.

/me shakes head in disgust

[Beor_]

Well, at least reduce the mana for Ao1... who will pay 400mp for a 10s buff? ¬¬

[_Enio_]

10/30 on Ao1 will of course not allow the same old habits.

It shifts from a general uncounterable style to a more situational one. I hope we get similar improvements on barbs UM.

However 400 mana is way too much to make it more aviable, cut that to 200 at max on 5.

[Klutu]

Well, at least reduce the mana for Ao1... who will pay 400mp for a 10s buff? ¬¬

Barbs apparently xD

but lower the mana cost on ao1 by half atleast

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

Barbs apparently xD

but lower the mana cost on ao1 by half atleast

or utilize umaril's idea. it would work much more effectively than 10s. or just leave Ao1 alone.

[Ulti19]

10/30 on Ao1 will of course not allow the same old habits.

It shifts from a general uncounterable style to a more situational one. I hope we get similar improvements on barbs UM.

However 400 mana is way too much to make it more aviable, cut that to 200 at max on 5.

Enio this is not about habits or fear of change or anything. This will not be some situational boost. This will not encourage knights to think harder or anything. It is simply a huge decrease to the power of tanking. Army of one was very easily counterable, you of all people know that, you've fought me plenty and the cc works fine on a current ao1 knight. 10 seconds need to be bumped up to a minimum of 20, and mana reduced drastically (with this I agree with you, but duration is not ok in any way shape or form).

Imagine sotw for 5 seconds... would this a boost you think even if it was 30 sec cd...

[Gabburtjuh]

i heared cold blood is OP, thats 300 mana 6 secs >.>, imo all spells shorter as 20 sec at such a high place or high value are UP

[Ponter]

Slight Balance Issue with Stalker Surroundings

Hunter can use stalker and move ANYWHERE they want with pet. Basically a camo with pet for 5 minutes. This is even more OP then Camo + Pet.


Thanks. We are going to fix this.


Also, slight change needed for this to work well in RvR. Members needs to be able to see each other in stalker; otherwise, folks will have issues moving - etc.

We are actually working on this feature and it will be able soon.

Regards!

[Anyriand]

This change in Ao1 is ridiculous, I couldn't agree more with Ulti on this one. Any kind of lvl 1 cc and we just wasted 400 mana. NGD is making it impossible to play knight after this update goes live.
Knights are desperate for help, new spells, good ones, not stuff like the new d-stance and auras...

And I'd very much appreciate if people who have never played a knight in their lives stopped giving worthless opinions about a class they *obviously* don't know sh** about. I'm getting tired of all the ass-kissing that's been going on lately.

[Comp]

Slight RP Issue with Reveal

If reveal is used to "un-camo target(s)" and they die...they hunter doesn't receive RP unless he directly inflicts damage on the target(s).

[Lord_Latem]

The changes to Stalker Surroundings do sound interesting. I am with Compost relative being able to see others under the spell's influence so as not to get too far from the caster. Something else I am currently considering is something I believe I read in the recent past. That is, some of the knights auras are being converted to area buffs, so to speak, in an effort to lighten the load on the servers. With this in mind, how does the change to Stalker Surroundings impact server load? Does it remain similar to today? It seems like it would...I guess I am looking for a little clarifaction.

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

New Ao1 needs its mana cost reducing greatly and moving down the skill tree as it in no way qualifies as a lvl 19 skill anymore. As Ultimate pointed out one good kick and its gone and 400 mana for a wasted 10 seconds CANNOT be used every 30 seconds, yes Ao1 was OP but a 30 second duration with a 120 second cool down rather than a 10 second duration would have been alot more viable.

To make this spell work you would need to give knight unstoppable madness or one CC and thats 400 mana down the drain at least the area spells are still active when you're on your ass.

I wont be bothering with Ao1 i used it as a tool to keep fighting/retreat before but now it isnt good for either of those, sadly i think this is exactly what NGD want knights to do.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

This change in Ao1 is ridiculous, I couldn't agree more with Ulti on this one. Any kind of lvl 1 cc and we just wasted 400 mana. NGD is making it impossible to play knight after this update goes live.
Knights are desperate for help, new spells, good ones, not stuff like the new d-stance and auras...

And I'd very much appreciate if people who have never played a knight in their lives stopped giving worthless opinions about a class they *obviously* don't know sh** about. I'm getting tired of all the ass-kissing that's been going on lately.

NGD needs to listen to their customers, no matter what they say, we are the ones who pay the bills. their job is to keep the customer happy, and this update is doing the opposite of that (mostly Ao1)

[Klutu]

NGD needs to listen to their customers, no matter what they say, we are the ones who pay the bills. their job is to keep the customer happy, and this update is doing the opposite of that (mostly Ao1)

NGD can always find new customers :p

I see the duration being increased a bit but this overall idea of ao1 is becoming a improvement

[blood-raven]

i have a question about reveal, so if hunter a is in camo and hunter b reveals him, so hunter a is attackable for the duration off the spell? correct? (just a question). don't have time to test it myself.

regards

[Ulti19]

So far every knight is in disagreement with this change (on the forum at least). And I agree with Any that if you don't play knight after 50, don't post about something you are not familiar with.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

NGD can always find new customers :p

I see the duration being increased a bit but this overall idea of ao1 is becoming a improvement

you obviously dont have a knight, or you would know that knights have very limited tanking ability without Ao1. 10 seconds is not long enough to tank effectively, i think Umaril's idea is the best option for Ao1.

[_Enio_]

Enio this is not about habits or fear of change or anything. This will not be some situational boost. This will not encourage knights to think harder or anything. It is simply a huge decrease to the power of tanking. Army of one was very easily counterable, you of all people know that, you've fought me plenty and the cc works fine on a current ao1 knight. 10 seconds need to be bumped up to a minimum of 20, and mana reduced drastically (with this I agree with you, but duration is not ok in any way shape or form).

Imagine sotw for 5 seconds... would this a boost you think even if it was 30 sec cd...



Seriously i dont like that SoW & new Escapist create more situations you can barely counter.

Would you mind to further tweak the cost, CD and change the Duration to 3,4,5,6,7s? It shouldnt be a spell you use to tank heavy incoming attacks for such long amount of time.
Especially the combination of the new Escapist and SoW will be seriously retarded. 7s is more then enough to use it tactically but not long enough to unleash deadly combinations.
It would also limit its use as a get out of tricky situation. Well timed or antizipated use would still be greatly rewarded.

The manacost should be reduced first, and then tested from Knights in war.

[Gabburtjuh]

i can post about duration, and that sucks, for any class, 10 secs is to short, let alone for the last spell in the tree.

[Klutu]

you obviously dont have a knight, or you would know that knights have very limited tanking ability without Ao1. 10 seconds is not long enough to tank effectively, i think Umaril's idea is the best option for Ao1.

I like uma's idea & i have played a high lvl knight before

in reality most knights don't use Ao1 to "Tank" & Support they use Ao1 then rush into a group of people by themselves get Ms'ed then most likely die.

if they played with the durations/cooldowns this spell would make knights very dynamic and awesome

I do agree 10 seconds is not enough unless made a instant - the mana cost will be lowered later on if they continue with this

[_Kharbon_]

I love the changes on stalker surroundings and reveal enemy. When it'll get tweaked even more, it'll be quite useful spell. I didn't really see it used widely, but I guess that'll change.

From my view: Well done NGD :D

I can't speak on the spells, as i don't have a knight...

[Comp]

Bug with Stalker
2 Hunters Stalkering a group - when one stalkers, then the other. The last stalker will cancel the first and the first casting hunter will now be visible.

[Ulti19]

I like uma's idea & i have played a high lvl knight before

if they played with the durations/cooldowns this spell would make knights very dynamic and awesome

I do agree 10 seconds is not enough unless made a instant - the mana cost will be lowered later on if they continue with this

You are spot on, if they played with duration and cd and mana cost more it has promise. In this current state however, it is a broken spell now. Hopefully it will be altered. 10 seconds is simply far too low for a melee tank class. I'll repeat again. One knock and ao1 is pretty much done for. One balestra and ao1 is done for. One spring and run around for 10 sec and ao1 is done for. One winter stroke and ao1 is done for. And it will not be able to be casted again due to mana. We do not have range or cc like archer so this is not really comparable to sotw.

*Duration has to be increased to a minimum of 20 seconds for this to be effective at this rate. Even 20 seconds is low but alot more effective than 10. And hopefully cut mana by alot. Alot being a max of 200 at lv 5.

[Comp]

Bug with Stalker
2 Hunters Stalkering a group - when one stalkers, then the other. The last stalker will cancel the first and the first casting hunter will now be visible.

Additional Bug With Stalker and Camo
Similar scenario - stalker will cancel camo

[Pornstar]

Hello everyone

...

(try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)

...




You sure that spells are usefull? cmon rigorus has less hit chance debuff than evasive tactics penalty. Oh wait for better tanking use awareness you see "Miss" once per 30 hits. Woot! Anyway you should never touch army of one. The old one (30 sec duration) was ok you made it overpowered and now useless. Keep going! Regards

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

btw can knights have steel skin pl0x? why is it conjs now have a better tanking spell than knights.

As for Awareness rigorous prep combo, you really haven't ever played a knight have you.

[Pakos]

Again nerfing poor knights? cmon, we have no dmg... how im supposed to kill now anything? Every other class can pass those 10 sec and kill me.
And dont tell me that knight should be a supporter at all, 2 low areas diesnt make me a supporter...

[Topogigio_BR]

Love all the changes -

Ao1 is going in a better direction but 10 seconds isn't enough imo..

Id rather see

15 duration 30 cooldown

20 duration 40 cooldown

10 seconds really isn't enough
completely agree with klutu on this.

[Minorian]

Oh God, nerf to the weakest classes only useful spell, and buff the most overpowered classes decent spell.

Why do you hate knights?

Why do you love hunters?

[von1958]

hmm 10 sec 400 mana cooldown means nothing because I only have enough mana to cast it one time. So that means I will just die even faster than I do now. please understand the average knight at lvl 50 only has 1300 to 1400 mana to work with and remember on horus conjus are not able to supply the mana due to the world's lower population

[Torin_Ironfist]

This update is awesome for knights. +1 NGD

For those who don't see it, knarb!

[Arafails]

10s of high damage resistance → they who cast area defence buffs harder to kill for duration of buff. Of course it does nothing for alowing the group to move if the knight is CC'd.
But you should rename it to 'brigade of one' or 'barber-shop quartet of 1'

[Ulti19]

This update is awesome for knights. +1 NGD

For those who don't see it, knarb!

Although some changes are nice. If you cannot see that army of one has been practically taken away as a skill lol, you shouldn't call those knights knarbs, instead you should realize you don't know how to use this skill properly.

The fight on amun just now was short but fun. Shield wall though very small duration is nice I admit this way. But again I was fed tons of mana on the amun fight, I would not be able to sustain that on horus.

After testing ao1 on fort guards and in war I conclude that this version is pretty much a worthless spell now. It is as if it is not needed in the skill tree anymore because it doesn't provide anything for a knight whatsoever. Please rethink duration and mana cost.

<3 deflecting barrier ^^

[Zas_]

New stalker is nice, we need to see each other though to make it useful.
Stalker cancels another one (old issue) and camo, this has to be fixed.

Mobility(1) is a joke, +2% speed for few seconds is useless.
Spell elude is useless even on level 5.

Death sentence is nice, but enemy affected by it should be somehow more obvious imho.

Hunter should be able to track under Stalker, as he can under Camo.

I'm still not happy with the number of power points available to an archer, i know you want to reduce versatility, but why not increase other classes versatility instead ? It would make the game funnier for all.

Reveal looks nice (but no rp issue), but i don't get well how it works (duration, please explain how you want it to work).

Cold blood is only 2-3 hits with fast bow + rapid shot.

Rake(5) damages were not reduced by casting Acrobatics after it affected me, is this a desired thing or a bug, it is not the case on Horus ?

Overall, nice step but still need some tuning.

[Gideon_Slack]

The new Stalker Surroundings is simply great. It makes the Hunter class a complete, playable stealth class again, with even more of an emphasis on group support in RvR than it had before. Tactically, the possibilities of how to use the spell seem endless.

The sparkling indicator that shows Reveal Enemy is active is pretty important in my opinion. Hunters are going to need to keep an eye on who has Reveal active to avoid having their prime spell broken too easily.

In a perfect world, it would be nice if the Hunter had a defensive stealth skill in the Scouting tree to replace the loss of speed. A short-term camo with large speed bonus had been suggested here (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1115074&postcount=15). This isn't as necessary now as it was, but it might be something to consider.

[bois]

Well I had a look

Ao1 is um.. no longer worthwhile. I agree that the current version on the live servers is too long and quite OP depending on the circumstance and opponents.

In some cases even on the live server it can be quite useless.

So what do we have on live servers:
Mana from 340 -500 for 50 seconds and you get from 40% to 80% resistance. CD is 180 seconds with a cast time of 1 second.

The new version is:
Mana from 320 -400 for 10 seconds and you get from 40% to 80% resistance.
CD is 30 seconds with a cast time of .5 second.

Now the change is not going to hurt me much but seriously, 10 seconds? I wonder how rosy it would look if UM got knocked off from 21 seconds to 10. Who knows that might be good too.

The times that I actually need Ao1 are usually last ditch cases. 10 seconds is not going to do anything. The obvious solution is the new protector/caution combo. If Ao1 goes live it will become a useless spell and I probably wont skill it anyway. No loss. I would have 3 points to put elsewhere. Unfortunately I still have to put this to 19 to get my 5 stone temple points. If it wasn't for that I could probably dismiss Vanguard totally now.
As suggested above the skill should have been nerfed on the effect time to maybe 25 seconds and the protection itself nerfed. I say cap it at 60 % resistances and drop the cd time to 60 seconds. Mana cost for the spell is insane. That is the most debatable thing about this. 320 mana for 10 seconds is simply not worth it.

Protector + Rigorous preparation? Best laugh I had all day.

Those two were ineffective when the cast time was like 4 seconds. They were ineffective when the cast time went to 1 second. They remain ineffective to this day. If I skill those two to level 5 I deserve to die in a twisted heap. Yes, I tested these two extensively over the last 2 changes and found them wanting badly. I miss in about 12 to 21 hits is a joke. -26% HC and -16HC critical correlates to almost nothing in the WZ. I know you guys are desperate to make these have a place. I doubt they ever will.

Heroic Presence I could live with.
Precise block doesn't matter because blocks are random anyway. I don't even skill it on the live servers anymore.

At the end of the day I keep on playing. When it goes live I give it a go. I won't be any worse off anyway. If I remain in the same place or improve as a class will be proven then.

What was interesting though (noticed today in RvR mock battle) was that casting those new areas on a moving army would be exceeding hard to pull off. That would be interesting too.

I look on in interest.

Artec

[Torin_Ironfist]

Although some changes are nice. If you cannot see that army of one has been practically taken away as a skill lol, you shouldn't call those knights knarbs, instead you should realize you don't know how to use this skill properly.

After testing ao1 on fort guards and in war I conclude that this version is pretty much a worthless spell now. It is as if it is not needed in the skill tree anymore because it doesn't provide anything for a knight whatsoever. Please rethink duration and mana cost.

Please do reply and tell me the 'proper' way to use Army of One, and for that matter the proper way to play knight.

Maybe I just don't use the skill in the 'proper' way. I use it on a lower level for when I need a safe entry to the fort or to get out of a hairy situation. More of a last minute escape spell. As a knight I have other ways of tanking and don't rely 100% on Army of One, like 90% of 'knights' do.

But you might be right, the 'proper' way is probably prebuffing it and using the skill on level 5 whenever it isn't on cooldown.

I wouldn't mind a longer duration but the game is changing so its shorter duration spells with high mana. Onslaught duration was 10 seconds, area buffs are 10 seconds. Seems like thats the way the game is going, I don't think it will change.


Edit: The change in precise block wasn't really needed, but I will have to do some testing on how the blocking was changed to see if its worthwhile skilling this again.

[Topogigio_BR]

I just dont like the effect reduction on steel skin.
I think as conju, the buffs that we do to ourself should have longer effect time as possible for us to have more time to cast on allies than to cast on ourselfs.

shorten duration of spells on conjus make then more dependent on cs items.

At least the buffs that conju cast on himself should be possible time fixed just evolve the effects as energy barrier.

[Ulti19]

Please do reply and tell me the 'proper' way to use Army of One, and for that matter the proper way to play knight.

Maybe I just don't use the skill in the 'proper' way. I use it on a lower level for when I need a safe entry to the fort or to get out of a hairy situation. More of a last minute escape spell. As a knight I have other ways of tanking and don't rely 100% on Army of One, like 90% of 'knights' do.

But you might be right, the 'proper' way is probably prebuffing it and using the skill on level 5 whenever it isn't on cooldown.

I wouldn't mind a longer duration but the game is changing so its shorter duration spells with high mana. Onslaught duration was 10 seconds, area buffs are 10 seconds. Seems like thats the way the game is going, I don't think it will change.




Torin I never said what the proper way is, and only replied because basically you called me a knarb. Do you agree that the amun version of ao1 is completely useless? I have tested it out and I'm pretty sure it is. Better to remove it from skill book and give us another spell.

Comparing nerfing duration to ons is laughable. A barb can hit into 1000's easily, a knight can barely do any serious damage, therefore we need serious tanking abilities. Defstance alone will not cut it.

[tikinho]

Slight RP Issue with Reveal

If reveal is used to "un-camo target(s)" and they die...they hunter doesn't receive RP unless he directly inflicts damage on the target(s).

Some spells like old Death Sentance that aren't making dmg weren't helping you to get RPs (broken stuff). :/ Also its fair if you stalker someone that kills something else after some time to give you RPs...

[bois]

Hehe. 90% is a bit sensationalist Torin. Some players do but quite a few do not spam it. Even as is that spell is very expensive and as such demands sparing use.

I wouldn't mind 15 - 20 seconds on this and a reduced mana count on it. But, it is an iteration and it still is not set in stone.

It just doesn't feel like a level 19 spell anymore . You know what I mean?

Even UM is 250 mana for 21 seconds. I suspect that spell will get a touch next up.

We shall see. I hope barbs don't scream murder if they do.

Art.

[Torin_Ironfist]

Torin I never said what the proper way is, and only replied because basically you called me a knarb. Do you agree that the amun version of ao1 is completely useless? I have tested it out and I'm pretty sure it is. Better to remove it from skill book and give us another spell.

I didn't call you a knarb, I just said this update is good for knights. If you took it personally to think it was directed at you then maybe you have doubts in your setup and think you are a knarb(?)

I asked you to tell me the proper way, after a comment like this I am just curious. Please teach me how to use Ao1.

instead you should realize you don't know how to use this skill properly.

I don't think it is completely useless, you just have to find new uses for it. After the ons change many barbs adjusted and still use it, auras were changed and now Ao1, knights will learn to adjust.

Hehe. 90% is a bit sensationalist Torin. Some players do but quite a few do not spam it. Even as is that spell is very expensive and as such demands sparing use.

I wouldn't mind 15 - 20 seconds on this and a reduced mana count on it. But, it is an iteration and it still is not set in stone.

It just doesn't feel like a level 19 spell anymore . You know what I mean?

Even UM is 250 mana for 21 seconds. I suspect that spell will get a touch next up.

We shall see. I hope barbs don't scream murder if they do.

Art.

I agree it needs a touch-up, but it isn't totally useless.

Consider the spell change with the fact that knights can now tank pretty much non-stop instead of thinking of the change with the tanking situation on horus currently.

Sorry for double post.

[Comp]

Some spells like old Death Sentance that aren't making dmg weren't helping you to get RPs (broken stuff). :/ Also its fair if you stalker someone that kills something else after some time to give you RPs...

Then it is a bug...level 1 distracting shot gives RP, lvl 1 ambush gives rp and so on. I'd expect they are oversights.

[Froste]

With the seemingly new focus of shortening some aura and buff durations perhaps it's time to change the CC aswell, how about halving every single stun, freeze, immobilize, knockdown etc.

And with the new change to reveal, being able to detect enemy corpses perhaps you could make camo corpse actually useful. Cremation is way overpowered _relative_ to its counter: camouflage corpse. The mana cost is too high, the cooldown is far too high, and the duration is far too low, there is zero point in using camouflage corpse. And noone does. Yet a _lot_ of people (at least on Horus) use cremate. Please address the balance between these two because it is seriously out of whack.

[Ulti19]

I didn't call you a knarb, I just said this update is good for knights. If you took it personally to think it was directed at you then maybe you have doubts in your setup and think you are a knarb(?)

I asked you to tell me the proper way, after a comment like this I am just curious. Please teach me how to use Ao1.




You said this update is good and those that don't agree are knarbs :P
I don't agree with this ao1 change one bit lol. Therefore, your post is aimed at my viewpoint.

My views on current live ao1- Use on door defense with defensive stance and cc everymage in sight
-Use with either shield wall and db and you can stand in front of your friends for long time while boosting them.
-In one on one it is great against hunter that use pets, use ao1 and kill pet, hunter will lose advantage.
-There are other great uses too like having fun with this and protector combo and can stand in enemy army and run back safely.

All these past pluses to ao1 will no longer exist due to it's lack of duration.
With 10 seconds you will be able to knock me once and I will lose my buff, even a lv 1 knock will do and then you get some distance and i waste 400 mana. Any archer or mage can now cc a knight once during and before a charge with ao1 and the buff will wear off.

You don't see anything wrong with what happened to this spell? It still has a use yes, you can take one or 2 hits at - 80% at lv 5:) There is no use for this spell. I'd love to hear what a 10 second ao1 can do for anyone that is better than a 20 or above second ao1 with a slightly higher cd. Like I said before it is as if it is not a skill anymore, it doesn't belong in a knight tree because it doesn't help tank effectively.

* For an idea how about getting rid of ao1 completely and replacing it with old protector, with this i'd be happy getting at least one of my tanking spells back.

[VandaMan]

Torin I never said what the proper way is, and only replied because basically you called me a knarb.

You are a knarb. If you are offended that everyone thinks you're a knarb, don't be one. The aim of the new Ao1 is great, however with 10 second duration and 30 second cooldown, it should be fairly spammable. I think 200 mana cost or so would be more appropriate.

[Ulti19]

You are a knarb. If you are offended that everyone thinks you're a knarb, don't be one. The aim of the new Ao1 is great, however with 10 second duration and 30 second cooldown, it should be fairly spammable. I think 200 mana cost or so would be more appropriate.

And you should learn to read.

[VandaMan]

And you should learn to read.

I'm not sure why you're bringing personal attacks into a balance update thread... especially since I basically agreed with you; 10 seconds isn't worth such a large mana cost, and the spell should be fairly spammable.

[Nekoko]

So far every knight is in disagreement with this change (on the forum at least). And I agree with Any that if you don't play knight after 50, don't post about something you are not familiar with.

No I think just about all the other classes are agreeing on top of all the Knights as well.



Army of One: changed for a more tactical use. Duration Reduced to 10 seconds in all levels. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. Casting time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Mana reduced in all levels to 320 to 400 from levels 1 to 5. (try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)


Yes this has made AOO more tactical I imagine Knights will now make the tactical choice and either never skilling Vanguard again or Skill it to 17 for the last active useful RvR skill in it, Herioc Presense.

Like every other person in this thread bar a select few I agree the duration is FAR TOO SHORT one knock at level 5 will reduce the time of aoo to 2 SECONDS. And everyone knows there will be another knock the second the first has ended.

The mana cost is FAR TOO HIGH, like almost everyone agrees.

10 seconds is NOT a level 19 skill. Also I hear from NDG how they want fights to last longer. How do 10 second buffs and aura's encourge this?

Any tanking ability we had that left us with offense (the lowest damage offense in the game might I add) is now gone. Obviously the swords and various weapons given to a Knight are only for show, cause we certainly won't be doing much with them now.

[SlackerLinux2]

the new army of one is great no more knights popping out for whatever the old duration is losing about 1/8th hp with like 20 barbs hitting him then getting back into fort and waiting for cd while im on my hunter and not my mace barb seeing not 1 ms being cast. i do have a level 42 knight and he does use AoO and in fine with the update although the manacost should be reduced and maybe the duration increased by 5-10 seconds(not too much)

[Zas_]

Reveal is breaking Stun effect, it shouldn't be the case.

It is possible to stalker in a fort and go out all camoed, this has to be tested in RvR with new Reveal and Dispels...

[Naposta]

Hello everyone, i recentle have an idea for Ao1.

duration: 25 seconds (or more)
coolddown: same as duration
cast: instant or 0,5 sec
mana cost per lvl: 100-120-140-160-200

You can't abuse of the power or you wont have mana, thats more tactic, and casting twice you will have 50 sec duration loosing 400 mana same as Horus/Ra.

what do you think?

[Minorian]

NGD wants to discourage Knarbs, so they effectively make both knight trees useless bar 1 spell in vanguard and 2 in shields. Neither of them are worth the wasted points.

NGD wants to encourage warriors in general, so they nerf warriors while buffing/leaving the OP ranged classes.

Wow.

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

Ok i can accept the Ao1 change now i've played in a fort war and Ao1 is useless the ammount of times i cc'd a knight using it and laughed must have been in the high twentys for the time i was there.

The reason i can accept it is because i just wont skill it, In war as long as you have good support you shouldn't have a problem taking the damage.

Gawyns setup:

13 blunt 3 MS 1 rib breaker

15 slash 4 acurate swings 4 disable limb

7 pierce 1 balestra

19 tactics 5 kick 5 feint 5 caution 5 defensive stance 5 spring

19 sheild 5 deflect projectiles 5 steadiness 5 sheild wall 1 sheild bash 1 deflect projectiles

15 vanguard 4 stone temple 4 troll skin

--------------------------------------------

Hp: 4784 (without troll skin)

mana: 1585

[Ulti19]

NGD wants to discourage Knarbs, so they effectively make both knight trees useless bar 1 spell in vanguard and 2 in shields. Neither of them are worth the wasted points.

NGD wants to encourage warriors in general, so they nerf warriors while buffing/leaving the OP ranged classes.

Wow.

After playing amun the shield tree itself is pretty nice, especially because of the now great deflecting barrier. However, Vanguard tree now is pretty much only good for the passive 15 constitution at lv 5. Perhaps some changes will occur in that tree to make it more attractive soon.

Also, I don't know if devs mentioned somewhere else but it is awesome how people now slide across the ground when you knock them while moving lol.

[veluchami]

Force armor: duration increased to 60 seconds Cooldown increased to 70s. Protection reduced to 10-30%
Precise block: Same duration for all levels (30s). Block chance adjusted 10%-30% from level 1 to 5.
Dead Eye: speed penalty reduced to 5%- 15% from level 1 to 5.
Steel Skin: Resistance Bonus reduced to 50%-70% from level 1 to 5
Heroic Presence: Cooldown reduced to 120 seconds. Cast time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Protection reduced 40% - 80% from level 1 to 5. Mana reduced to 320 – 400 from level 1 to 5.
Army of One: changed for a more tactical use. Duration Reduced to 10 seconds in all levels. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. Casting time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Mana reduced in all levels to 320 to 400 from levels 1 to 5. (try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)
Natural Armor: Protection reduced to 10% to 30%.
New Spell for hunters: Reveal Enemy. Allows a Hunter to interrupt the effect of camouflage, Stalker Surroundings , and camouflage corps. Duration 15-50 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds. Mana 200-300.
Enhanced Stalker Surroundings: Now caster and his allies can move with a reduced speed of 40%. Allies loose the effect if they get 10 meters away from caser for a period of 5 seconds.
BUG fix: a bug with Recharged Arrows when running out of mana has been fixed.



+234234324 to the change to stalker surroundings, just make it not work with Pet so hunters dont use it for solo hunting ( Encourages petless hunters to level this skill)
This would be the single most tactical feature of Regum if it is done correctly.
By implemented correctly, I mean having it not cancel other stalkers and please increase the number of players in stalker to 8 (one party) And only the party members are stalkered when this skill is used.

Dead Eye still costs mana. Maybe I will use it as a counter to loss of LS. But basic marksman mana problems remain.

[Comp]

Problem with Resist Rate

Ok, I got around to have a few fights on Amun. Mostly I've been focusing on making sure spells work, etc. So I start a fight and I'm amazed at the pure number of resists that occur (evades aren't bad). I had 10 different fights and the resist rate for spells cast were approximately 55% (never below 50% and once about 62%). This needs to be toned down significantly.

[KryHavoK]

Dead Eye still hasn't been brought up to the level of a useful spell.

Bringing the attack speed adjustment down to +15% at level 5 helped, but not enough.
The DPS of Normal attacks + DE lvl 5 tests out to only be at 105-110% of the Normal attacks alone. And unfortunately the DPS of Recharged Arrows + DE appears to be the same as the DPS of Recharged Arrows alone. So basically if you use Recharged Arrows, using DE is just burning mana for no reason.
I thought that maybe DE would be a good boost for Lethal Strike since it's damage is one of the +% types, but I saw absolutely no difference in damage with or without DE. (didn't see it affect any of the Marks tree spells that I tried)

I was thinking that Dead Eye was going to be something like a caster only version of the old Death Sentence, but right now it's just a spell used to make mana disappear. One more tweak please.

[Froste]

Hello everyone

Enhanced Stalker Surroundings: Now caster and his allies can move with a reduced speed of 40%. Allies loose the effect if they get 10 meters away from caser for a period of 5 seconds.
[/LIST]

While I'm really looking forward to this, there is one huge problem with it: Under the new mobile stalker, a gem carrier should not be affected by stalker.

Reveal is nice but it is insufficient to reveal a stalkered gem carrier; Every single hunter would have to stay close to the gate and shoot off overlapping reveals (which presents a minor issue with mana aswell), but the biggest problem comes when a reorganized attack force appears outside the gate, causing chaos and confusion, a stalkered gem carrier could easily sneak out that way. And a gem should never ever be that easy to get out.

It can easily be justified from a roleplaying aspect too, the gems being far too radiant and shiny thus being seen even if they tried to hide it.

Every defending realm should have the opportunity to retrieve their gems and I think if stalker affected gem carriers there would be feelings of utter hopelessness, that they didn't even get the chance to hit the gem carrier if he or she snuck out in that manner.

[Gideon_Slack]

While I'm really looking forward to this, there is one huge problem with it: Under the new mobile stalker, a gem carrier should not be affected by stalker.

Reveal is nice but it is insufficient to reveal a stalkered gem carrier; Every single hunter would have to stay close to the gate and shoot off overlapping reveals (which presents a minor issue with mana aswell), but the biggest problem comes when a reorganized attack force appears outside the gate, causing chaos and confusion, a stalkered gem carrier could easily sneak out that way. And a gem should never ever be that easy to get out.

It can easily be justified from a roleplaying aspect too, the gems being far too radiant and shiny thus being seen even if they tried to hide it.

Every defending realm should have the opportunity to retrieve their gems and I think if stalker affected gem carriers there would be feelings of utter hopelessness, that they didn't even get the chance to hit the gem carrier if he or she snuck out in that manner.

The problem with the gem carrier and Stalker seems to be the same problem with hunter pet and Stalker.

Maybe if Stalker is cast, the gem carrier, and all Pets would stay visible.

(Though maybe the Pet should just be dismissed under Stalker as it is with the new Camo. On the otherhand, perhaps the new Camo could conceal hunters, but leave their Pets visible without dismissing them).

[Froste]

That's not a problem exactly, that's is its intended function, even the pet being intended according to chilko's words. But whether it's intended or unintended that a gem carrier should be stalkered is irrelevant, because it simply shouldn't happen. You can stalker a gem carrier as long as they can't move, but once you add mobility into the mix then you can escape under it, and that just should not happen. Ever.

[_Enio_]

Dead Eye still hasn't been brought up to the level of a useful spell.

Bringing the attack speed adjustment down to +15% at level 5 helped, but not enough.
The DPS of Normal attacks + DE lvl 5 tests out to only be at 105-110% of the Normal attacks alone. And unfortunately the DPS of Recharged Arrows + DE appears to be the same as the DPS of Recharged Arrows alone. So basically if you use Recharged Arrows, using DE is just burning mana for no reason.
I thought that maybe DE would be a good boost for Lethal Strike since it's damage is one of the +% types, but I saw absolutely no difference in damage with or without DE. (didn't see it affect any of the Marks tree spells that I tried)

I was thinking that Dead Eye was going to be something like a caster only version of the old Death Sentence, but right now it's just a spell used to make mana disappear. One more tweak please.

It probably works the same way as recharges does in the sense of not adding towardsthe damage of +%damage spells.

However i dont see why we need another damageboost for marks. we got like Recharged, Specialist, Maneuver, Dex passive, Dirty fighting(range malus) and now Deadly Eye (AS malus, leading to no actual increase in DPS).

Maybe completely rework this spell for something cool? something tactical and maybe fun? I miss some candy on marks beside the range. Just another damage boost.. old DS was way more interesting (especially with the Amun changes).


If you want to go the line of putting a Damage boost in there:


You could add a mechanics adding a damage buff for 10 seconds for each shot (damage gain would be related to weapon speed to not make it more effective on fast weapons then on slow). like when you keep firing on a target you "load up" and get stronger attacks, i would reset after some amount of time.

If you want to adress mana issues on marksman:


You could add a similar mechanics, giving you back some amount of mana when <insert something here>, add some kind of malus to balance it out.


You could also add some group support, or something completely new.
Or shift Reveal to marks? Problematic due to the lack of tracking capabilities but someting needed like this for the marks class would be great.

Something that makes em useful and wanted in evry war group. Just ranged support through normals and single target cc isnt enough to make this class more fun to play in my opinion.

[Dracice]

i like all changes , but Ao1 for only 10s for 400 mana ? one CC and knight is in ass or will be very hard surive 20s withnout Ao1 under attack(20s is just alot time to get 3hard hits from barb and die ,oh u nerfed barb dmg too aff ,but still alot time to get 4 hard hits and die ) , u should add duration or lower mana cost and CD

[Ulti19]

Does anyone know how the new block chance is calculated? They made knights block stats half of the live servers number but I don't understand how it works out or anything. Is there a new formula for blocking? It would be good to know how it works to see if precise and block is worth skilling after update.

[KryHavoK]

...
However i dont see why we need another damageboost for marks. we got like Recharged, Specialist, Maneuver, Dex passive, Dirty fighting(range malus) and now Deadly Eye (AS malus, leading to no actual increase in DPS).
...

Maybe completely rework this spell for something cool? something tactical and maybe fun? I miss some candy on marks beside the range. Just another damage boost.. old DS was way more interesting (especially with the Amun changes).

...

Something that makes em useful and wanted in evry war group. Just ranged support through normals and single target cc isnt enough to make this class more fun to play in my opinion.

Couldn't agree more, DE just isn't quite working. Marks need something to be useful again.

[Aeacus]

I personally saw great potiental for DE but it has turned out to be another waste of manna. I think a little more tweaking could really add some fun. While on the issue of Spells to be fixed...i was wondering if manuever could be looked at? the increase in dex is great but i feel the CD hurts the effectiveness of it. Maybe change the spell to be a 40 duration 60 cd? keep manna cost the same so using it constantly would require a control of manna, or a conj :) I just feel like the 120 Cd is a very long time to wait for a spell with 40 sec duration. Just a thought, but agree completely with Enio, i would love me some good ol' fasion fun spells on marks again, ya know the ones that people are afraid of :P Just a thought...

[Ulti19]

A small problem on amun.

Right now if archer fights knight that is set up with def support 5 defstance 5 and spring 5 the archer cannot really do anything.

Me and Enio were playing around and it wasn't really balanced for him and quite unfair to a ranged player. With the 180 sec duration of defensive stance I was basically invincible when i used def support as well and spring.

Basically the new spell makes it hard or next to impossible to kill a knight with it for a ranged player. There has to be a way for range to counter this kind of spell or else there is an imbalance. If i am attacked in field by marks i can put the spell on and safely run forever because I can keep the spell up too long. The duration is 60 seconds longer than the cd so we can have it up at all times. However, this spell doesn't really do much against a barbarian attack lol.

The reduction in duration of ao1 and the insanely long duration of the new defensive stance aren't balanced. Maybe make defstance shorter and make ao1 abit longer to even things out. This would help because then ao1 would be used to tank melee damage(barbs cut through caution and defstance), and defstance can be used to tank archers but not forever.

* Also blocks are completely random and skills have no impact on them whatsoever. Using block 5 pb 5 and I block as randomly as if I have block 0 and pb 0. Block needs to be reworked.

[BigManOnCampus]

Army of One is not overpowered on the live servers. Where did anyone get this opinion? I cannot recall any situation where Army of One has saved my ass, and it's a level 19 ability. It is simply too easy to CC a knight down and outlast AO1, even at 50 seconds. Yes, I still skill it high (4 or 5) on the live servers, but I use it very selectively. In fact, Chilko, I would argue that AO1 is *ALREADY* a tactical-use spell, for knights that know what they're doing it is definitely a situational call.

Ten seconds would only be worth it if the cast time were instant, and the mana costs were reduced another 100 (making it 300 mana, or ~1/4th to 1/3rd of a knights mana). Half-a-second cast time makes me stop in a war to get it off, which makes me a CC target and making it easier to counter/interrupt.

AO1's great equalizing power was to let knights last longer in a fight so that their low damage could be expressed. However, this never really OP'd the class because the little gold hockey players sitting on your shoulders tells everyone else to CC you immediately, and they do. With the new tanking combinations, nerfing AO1 means fewer people will want to use this level 19 ability.

I would suggest that if you want to go this direction with Army of One, Chilko, that you make it so that CC spells cast on a knight reset or hold the 10-second countdown on AO1. This would in effect give the enemy a difficult choice. They can choose to knock you down, but that simply means your protection lasts longer, in which case they run away if solo and losing, or continue to pound with damage if they're a group attacking a knight. Or they can take the hits coming to them, and wait out the 10seconds while (if the knight is in melee range) taking damage.

[_Enio_]

...

Indeed it was quite frustrating, cc that has not been blocked or resisted just resisted the effect in the 2nd layer from that one passive Skill (Runover?) and Defensive Support.

An idea would be to make Sudden Strike (-50% protection) work on the full amount of Armor points, at the moment it just works additive.

Eg.: currently Your base ap 100% + Stance 200% = 300% ap, Sudden strike makes it 250% ap.

Change to 300%ap + Sudden strike = 150% ap.

You might to consider lowering its duration and maybe make it range 20 so it cant be used too easily from range.




Another idea is to change those random CC resistances Defensive Support adds to a more situational "boost" of resistances, however it will interfere with UM on Barbs (well its basically the same spell just with less effect but you can have it up 24/7).

Or move this kind of spell into a Knight specific tree and switch current Defensive Support spell with a new spell for warriors:

No manacost 2,3,4,5,6s duration 25s CD, instant (or 0.5s) cast, GCD: very short.
Next hostile Spell cast on you cancels the buff. When the spell contains a CC effect it will ignore it and restore 5, 7, 9, 12, 15% mana.


Rework UM in line with Ao1 changes (CD/Duration). Lower both manacosts.

Melee would need some kind of toning down then as they already are faster at the moment but this would seriously bring dynamics in melee gameplay. Less resting and waiting for cooldowns, some kind of mana restoration when used wisely, more involvement also in the times where you are NOT in range of a target and, it wont completely mess up the RvR balance.

More sustained fun then the rare "burst" fun (questionable) when you have your invulnerability buffed and got into range of something.

[MalaTempora]

AO1 is so OP that the other protection and blocking spells are not used at ALL...

please try combining those spells not relying on just one OP spell

hey chilko, YES Ao1 may be OP, but awareness (which i use to lvl5 often) and rigorous preparation (i used often to lvl5 too combined with challenge lvl5)
but that is not the same...

in pvp the 3 skills can be deadly (challenge 5, rigorous 5 and awareness 5 can
be combined with precise block 5 and the passive block 5 to have a real high
block / evade / miss chances... BUT ... do you read how many spells i've to
cast to have 30 seconds of good tanking?? are you MAAAAD??? i admit
that i'm a little twisted with the use of skills combinations and some opponent
told me that i'm a points waster (one also told me to erase the char :D ) but
really.. 10 second for the best tanking skill is really really low, consider to
give 11second at lvl1 and 15 at lvl 5 or a bit more with a CD equal to double
the duration time.. (30 sec if duration is 15.. 22 sec if is 11 ) otherwise
the knights will be know as the "continuos spells spammer" in future)

[Gideon_Slack]

I've just got some more info on Reveal Enemy (haven't been able to get on Amun to test today).

It looks like Reveal Enemy is not a buff for the caster, it is a debuff for the target.

It is a one-time only debuff that effects a 30m cone in front of the caster. Any camoed or stalkered player in the area of effect becomes visible for the duration of the Reveal spell. They keep any debuffs of the camo or Stalker spell (speed malus). They will return to camo if any time is left in its duration after Reveal wears off.

If Reveal Enemy is cast on a hunter before he camos, he will be visible until the Reveal wears off, at which time he will camo (provided there is still some time left in the camo).

This implementation of Reveal still gives camo a lot of power, and looks like it will facilitate fluid gameplay. However, there may be a few problems:

1) Because of the speed malus, there should be a way to cancel Stalker without using a buff or attacking, especially since at level 5 Stalker is a 5 minute long spell. (Previously moving canceled it). Maybe simply pressing the Stalker icon/tile again?

2) Clearing forts of camoed Hunters is going to be a hellish process. Before other Hunters just used Escapist to run around the fort, as it triggered whenever you passed the enemy. Now it will require spamming Reveal and Track. Perhaps camoed players should just be ejected from forts when they are captured (though this will mean much less fun :().

3) The Hunter who casts Reveal Hunter has a sparkling animation around him for the duration of the spell. Since Reveal is not a buff, but a target debuff, there doesn't seem to be a purpose for this.

[Mikan]

To me it seems like the developers do not understand which spells work in this game or not. Sure, they can look at the code implementation but players are the ones who have test actual in-game effects and have found the spells you are telling us to use either broken, impossible to have or both.

I also see that Hunters got more goodies, that's no suprise. They've always been getting the goodies.

Army of one must be at least 30 seconds duration and 60-90 seconds cooldown. If you don't want it being OP, reduce it to 50% damage resistance so it can still be stacked with other buffs, but don't make it completely useless in war. This will only nerf Knights even further. :/

Not happy with these changes... do you ever listen to suggestions at all?

[_Enio_]

btw chilko mentioned in the spanish section that the current manacost of Ao1 is an error and will be 200 or less.

Apart from this, amun Ao1 currently is not a spell for sustained tanking, it is more a low profile alike defense boost you can use in heavy incoming damage situations. In combination with def stance this will likely be used to counter barbs high hits or on low hp situations.
Just like LP i would consider to check on the casters situation when Ao1 is cast - if he needs help/support due to the nature of the spell to give some time under heavy pressure.


Sure ao1 needs to be longer to offer sustained tanking. Its just now its supposed to offer situational boost defense while making it aviable more often through low manacost and cooldown.

So seriously lets try that stuff in a war situation before downvoting it, it wasnt even possible till now with that bugged manacost..

[Shwish]

i only had the time to test my marksman on amun so im just going to comment on that.

im a big fan of the current Death Sentence on the live servers. the new Dead Eye is okay but i probably wont skill it. i dont see the point of a skill that increases our dps and have a malus on it that decreases our dps.

reading all the complaints about the change to Ao1, i think the drop in duration, cooldown and mana cost could be applied Hawks Gaze as well, but a little more than 10 seconds.

aside from that im pleased with the class as a whole. im really liking that fact that the lightness offers more passive damage than specialist does \o/.

[veluchami]

im really liking that fact that the lightness offers more passive damage than specialist does \o/.
@!@##$%$^& Hunters getting more and more near Marks damage :(

[veluchami]

However i dont see why we need another damageboost for marks. we got like Recharged, Specialist, Maneuver, Dex passive, Dirty fighting(range malus) and now Deadly Eye (AS malus, leading to no actual increase in DPS).

Maybe completely rework this spell for something cool? something tactical and maybe fun? I miss some candy on marks beside the range. Just another damage boost.. old DS was way more interesting (especially with the Amun changes).


If you want to go the line of putting a Damage boost in there:


You could add a mechanics adding a damage buff for 10 seconds for each shot (damage gain would be related to weapon speed to not make it more effective on fast weapons then on slow). like when you keep firing on a target you "load up" and get stronger attacks, i would reset after some amount of time.

If you want to adress mana issues on marksman:


You could add a similar mechanics, giving you back some amount of mana when <insert something here>, add some kind of malus to balance it out.


You could also add some group support, or something completely new.
Or shift Reveal to marks? Problematic due to the lack of tracking capabilities but someting needed like this for the marks class would be great.

Something that makes em useful and wanted in evry war group. Just ranged support through normals and single target cc isnt enough to make this class more fun to play in my opinion.

This. Gotta spread reputation.... Mana is the biggest problem not damage. Besides DE doesnt really add anything worthwhile to the DPS with the attack speed malus and the way the % is calculated.

[tikinho]

Can Reveal be resisted? :)

[Lekarz]

No, no, no!
Don't nerf Force Armor, one of the most usefull for me conju support spells... 30%? you can kiss my ass with it. (about 200 armor more than 500)
Steel Skin: Resistance Bonus reduced to 50%-70% from level 1 to 5
?
Some phases before you told you try to make support conju easier , so why the hell you do that ?

" Enhanced Stalker Surroundings: Now caster and his allies can move with a reduced speed of 40%. Allies loose the effect if they get 10 meters away from caser for a period of 5 seconds. "

Now i can image camouflage forces of enemy zerg... and troops who will kill grinders...

One of the most shitty ideas i have ever seen.

[Shwish]

No, no, no!
Don't nerf Force Armor, one of the most usefull for me conju support spells... 30%? you can kiss my ass with it.
Steel Skin: Resistance Bonus reduced to 50%-70% from level 1 to 5
?
Some phases before you told you try to make support conju easier , so why the hell you do that ?


aren't you a warjurer?

[Lekarz]

At the moment much more times I am support one (there is not so many real conju at Horus' Ignis)

More ideas for upgrade Syrtis' zerg. Toons of ppl under camouflage.. no comment

Lekarz = doctor, if I would like to be warjurer i should be named Chirurg = Surgeon


Only one good idea is this anti-camo spell. Look to UI improvements at sugestions and add them. Thats not many work.

[trulyem]

Well, at least reduce the mana for Ao1... who will pay 400mp for a 10s buff? ¬¬

The Barbarians who currently use Onslaught(recent update) fyi, NGD tested it on barbs already. See the similarities of idiocy.

On the other note, I'm just glad Force Armor got nerfed. Saves more space for support conjurers to emerge and trash the useless warjurers.

[ncvr]

@!@##$%$^& Hunters getting more and more near Marks damage :(
I don't know how you came up with this conclusion. Marksmen can get lightness too, and dex increases dmg more for marksmen than hunters, so this is actually helping marksmen even more (specialist does not stack with recharged).

[linearguild]

However i dont see why we need another damageboost for marks. we got like Recharged, Specialist, Maneuver, Dex passive, Dirty fighting(range malus) and now Deadly Eye (AS malus, leading to no actual increase in DPS).

Maybe completely rework this spell for something cool? something tactical and maybe fun? I miss some candy on marks beside the range. Just another damage boost.. old DS was way more interesting (especially with the Amun changes).

What he said. Death Sentence was one of marksman's most interesting powers, one of our few non-selfish spells and practically the only way we had to "buff" allies. I'm disappointed that you replaced it with a damage oriented self-buff, promoting the normal hits side that's an efficient but dead boring way to set a marks. If it has to go, at least orient its replacement to the tricks side.

Random suggestions:

Disorient - casting speed debuff (I prefer to see this added to Sticky Touch, but anyway it fits with marksman job to harass mages)
Fracture - target receives % of his next attack as damage (retaliation-style spell, but useful for assisting others)
Silent Arrows - normal hits don't generate sound or visual effects while this power is active (I hate those arrow trails, can you tell)


Dead Eye just doesn't make sense, especially the part where attack speed malus now increases with higher levels. How about keeping attack speed malus constant like the previous version?

[mariqri]

Hello everyone

1)Precise block: Same duration for all levels (30s). Block chance adjusted 10%-30% from level 1 to 5.
2)Dead Eye: speed penalty reduced to 5%- 15% from level 1 to 5.
3)Steel Skin: Resistance Bonus reduced to 50%-70% from level 1 to 5
4)Heroic Presence: Cooldown reduced to 120 seconds. Cast time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Protection reduced 40% - 80% from level 1 to 5. Mana reduced to 320 – 400 from level 1 to 5.
5)Army of One: changed for a more tactical use. Duration Reduced to 10 seconds in all levels. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. Casting time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Mana reduced in all levels to 320 to 400 from levels 1 to 5. (try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)

6)New Spell for hunters: Reveal Enemy. Allows a Hunter to interrupt the effect of camouflage, Stalker Surroundings , and camouflage corps. Duration 15-50 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds. Mana 200-300.


1)that is much better now it is good in grind too
2)now the power is excelent
3)steel skin is better now, conjurers were harder to kill by warriors than a knight
4)180 seconds was too much, the power will be used more in battles now
5)you destroyed army of one, if a knight casts army of one an archer simply casts distracting shot lvl 3 (11 seconds) and waits for army of one to run out of time, btw he cat kill the knight in the rest of 30 seconds 2-3 times
6)duration 20 sec cooldown 20 sec? that is OP, duration 5 sec cooldown 20 sec is perfectly fair

and 1 more thing, GIVE REVEAL ENEMY TO WARRIORS NOT TO HUNTERS WE NEED IT

[blood-raven]

I don't know how you came up with this conclusion. Marksmen can get lightness too, and dex increases dmg more for marksmen than hunters, so this is actually helping marksmen even more (specialist does not stack with recharged).

remember that with the loss of lvl 1 spells + the fact that it's in the short bow tree not mutch full range marks will implement this or atleast not on a high lvl, so i'm not 100% with your statment.

regards

[Shwish]

remember that with the loss of lvl 1 spells + the fact that it's in the short bow tree not mutch full range marks will implement this or atleast not on a high lvl, so i'm not 100% with you statment.

regards

with the increase in dexterity's contribution it would be in every marksmans best interest to invest at least one point in lightness. i know as soon as these changes move to live servers ill be trading my longbow tree for shortbow, but still use my longbow just as much

[blood-raven]

with the increase in dexterity's contribution it would be in every marksmans best interest to invest at least one point in lightness. i know as soon as these changes move to live servers ill be trading my longbow tree for shortbow

i think you won't be the only one, marks and hunters are growing to close to eachother, why play a marks if you can have a pet + camo + same dmg?

regards

[Shwish]

i think you won't be the only one, marks and hunters are growing to close to eachother, why play a marks if you can have a pet + camo + same dmg?

regards

i dont have a hunter to test at the moment. can hunters do 300 normals on amun (without any damage buffs)?

[blood-raven]

maybe not but they still have the pet, i think he will make up for it (and more).

edit: if this get's implented i'll stick to my long bow and use maneuver more, to bad it has such a long cd :(.

regards

[ncvr]

remember that with the loss of lvl 1 spells + the fact that it's in the short bow tree not mutch full range marks will implement this or atleast not on a high lvl, so i'm not 100% with your statment.

regards
Remember that the same applies 100% to hunters. Hunters don't use dual shot, they use ensnaring arrow and, after the update, shield pierce.

[Pizdzius]

Quote:

Nessa suggestion was taken serious.

we've been debating about doing this since the first iteration of Stalker.
I don't even know who Nessa is, but congratulations Nessa! :)

So you just admit you don't even read suggestion forum?

[KryHavoK]

i think you won't be the only one, marks and hunters are growing to close to eachother, why play a marks if you can have a pet + camo + same dmg?

regards
i dont have a hunter to test at the moment. can hunters do 300 normals on amun (without any damage buffs)?

Can your Mark do 300 normals on amun (without any damage buffs)?
If so, then what setup/gear are you using?

[Mattdoesrock]

10 seconds duration of Army of One?

1 CC = bye bye duration. Even level 4 feint is 7 seconds...

[Shwish]

10 seconds duration of Army of One?

1 CC = bye bye duration. Even level 4 feint is 7 seconds...

dont forget about the "confuse" factor

Can your Mark do 300 normals on amun (without any damage buffs)?
If so, then what setup/gear are you using?

i use about 5 bows but for the purpose of this tests i only used 2 of them, both of which hit around 400s on horus with only recharged arrows(5) and specialist(4). on amun the my slow30 longbow hit around 300s and my medium20 shortbow hit the same but (with a tendancy of hitting lower) with recharged arrows(5) and specialist(4). with lightness(4) my slow30 was hitting around 330ish and my medium20 stayed around 300 but rarely creeeped under the 300 mark.

These were all done on normal mobs (giant trolls and sabertooths) as i couldnt find any english players to test them with.

imho this kind of damage is fine for a marksman (with the amun damage balances) with the possibilty of multiplying with Dead Eye

[Kaschka]

my knights evasion is zero. is that wanted? i tried relog... still zero. with ring giving evasion +3 i have 3 evasion...

whats this? knight got a shield so he doesn't evade?

You nerfed aoo, thats ok... but please make other defensive buffs stronger.

[frank1216]

300 slows, what is the purpose in war for that?
Hitting 10 normal slow hits to finally get someone down?

And the hunter can do nearly the same, but with pet etc...

[Lekarz]

Hunter is a defence not ofensive archer subclass... NGD doesn't do that what they wrote at home page...

Archer:

Marksman: Offensive discipline. Increases the player's ability to make damaging attacks.

Hunter: Defensive discipline. Allows the player to train a pet and use skills to make a target easier to hit.

[Shwish]

Hunter is a defence not ofensive archer subclass... NGD doesn't do that what they wrote at home page...

Lets look at all the updates NGD has made to hunters in the past 7 phases:

- Pets are removed when the hunter casts camouflague --> supportive addition to hunters
- Cold Blood --> offensive addtion for hunters
- Death Sentence --> supportive addition for hunters
- Reveal Enemy --> Supportive addition for hunters
- Improvement on Stalker Surrounding --> Supportive addition for hunters

and the one change made to marksman being the removal of a marksmans only support spell for an offensive damage buff

so clearly NGD is on the road to making hunters the real supportive archer and marksman the offensive archer and theres still more to come

[Seher]

10 seconds is NOT a level 19 skill. Also I hear from NDG how they want fights to last longer. How do 10 second buffs and aura's encourge this?

Why are the most often used spells the first ones per tree? Imo level 19 spells should be a better version of those you get earlier in the tree. e.g. a better south cross, less mana cost, more damage... Or, a cool protection spell. Only the mana cost is flawed, as you can't use it very often. (But if it's a "bug"... :P)

I'd still prefer 2 spells, one to resist ranged damage, one to resist melee damage, both, let's say 20 duration, 30 cooldown, but you can't run them both at the same time, they cancel each other. (There are enough useless spells in that tree, don't worry, hehe)

[Gabburtjuh]

i think you won't be the only one, marks and hunters are growing to close to eachother, why play a marks if you can have a pet + camo + same dmg?

regards

Believe me, there is no hunter that can do thesame dmg as a marks with thesame gear, if the marks is setup for max normals.

[blood-raven]

Believe me, there is no hunter that can do thesame dmg as a marks with thesame gear, if the marks is setup for max normals.

yes, but the pet makes up for this, and even more.

regards

[Gabburtjuh]

pet, dies if camo, and if ppl would use their brain, trolls would die within secs in RvR, i mean, cmon, you cant miss the troll in the enemy ranks, i love those stupid things for a terror and my hunter has a hotkey for them >.<

[tjanex]

I like the supporting back stap titel of the Hunter!

[-Ludovik-]

I still see that Marksman balance is being avoided.
When Recharged arrows and mana cost in general will be revisioned?
At least you finally solved that terrible bug, I really appreciate this, and I hope now I won't get anymore some manaburn (1) :D
Well I imagine that one of the main purposes of this balance update is adding more dynamics to the gameplay.
You adfirmed that players should be able to use every kind of weapon, and for this you changed many things such as weapon's attack speed, primary attribute formula etc..
Now I am a level 50 marks, and I would like you just to consider this:
You changed Dexterity formula, and now 1 point of dexterity give the same damage bonus not depending on weapon' (bow) speed.
In my opinion, this new formula creates a fall of dinamycs, I explain why.
Now the difference of attack speed between different bow's kinds (fast - medium- slow) is noticeable but the damage difference is really low, and my fast 25 (ex fast 20) bow has by far the highest dps between all my bows.
In general the new formula takes me to use only fast bows because medium and slow ones become quite useless, in other words fast bows are really better because they do a little less damage than slow bows, but their speed make them overcome the rest of bows in terms of convenience.
Archers will pratically use fast bows 90% of time, and may be sometimes a medium 35 bow (ex medium 30) for the +5 range and parabolic shot.
Probably you will say that medium and slow bows will be usefull for some kinds of spell that relies their damage on 100% attack damage, and to use Long bows tree, but as a Marksman I really think that this reasons are not sufficient for use to use those bows.
With the new removal of movement speed, CC are a must, we don't have points to waste in bow's trees and we can still get parabolic shot and rapid shot that are quite usefull for us.
And plus +100% AD spells have died with the damage reduction and new kind of protection - protection buff.
How many spells we have that relie on +100% attack damage? The only one I used was Dual shot, just sometimes to prevent enemies dancing around me but now I can't waste point on it so...
And the new spell "Dead eye" still remains useless:
not counting with new auras, damage reduction in genereal etc. this spell itself can give no more than +30 damage but I lose a normal hit (around 280) every 4 hits, It's like an auto damage-mana debuff.

[Gabburtjuh]

and my fast 25 (ex fast 20) bow has by far the highest dps between all my bows.

And you have to be closest, which means you will be more of a target, so high dps and high dmg on you, or abit lower and less dmg, its a tradeoff, all classes have it, even warriors, 1 very high hit and the chance its evaded, or 2 lower hits and hope you will atleast land 1?

[Raindance]

I would change all knockdown spells; give them a higher % chance to knock each level, but make knockdown spells 2-3 seconds depending on the spell, or even making them a simple knockdown for 1 second just to give the caster a little edge over the battle.

For example: Feint level 5: knockdown chance 100%, the enemy is knocked down (2 seconds). Feint level 1: knockdown chance 50%, the enemy is knocked down (2 seconds). However I'm not sure if this concept would be good for RvR. Also: as if Regnum needed more randomness or it would make everyone skill 19 Tactics, or some other reason.

I've seen many games with this kind of knockdown system, however I am not saying NGD should take the short road and copy those games. It's just an idea, and usually NGD takes ideas like these and uses them as examples to do their own changes.

All aside, I do believe CC's should be changed somehow if NGD's going to change most spells to 10 seconds like AoO.

[-Ludovik-]

And you have to be closest, which means you will be more of a target, so high dps and high dmg on you, or abit lower and less dmg, its a tradeoff, all classes have it, even warriors, 1 very high hit and the chance its evaded, or 2 lower hits and hope you will atleast land 1?

Well I can still use my FAST 30 (ex fast 25), still having better dps than slow and medium bows, 30 meters is max (non buffed) range actually on Ra, I don't consider it as close.
Anyway I am not saying that fast bows have high dps, the simply have better dps than slow and medium, while the range loss is quite insignificant, this make the last ones useless.
Hope they change something to Dex formula.

[Comp]

I've just got some more info on Reveal Enemy (haven't been able to get on Amun to test today).

It looks like Reveal Enemy is not a buff for the caster, it is a debuff for the target.

It is a one-time only debuff that effects a 30m cone in front of the caster. Any camoed or stalkered player in the area of effect becomes visible for the duration of the Reveal spell. They keep any debuffs of the camo or Stalker spell (speed malus). They will return to camo if any time is left in its duration after Reveal wears off.

If Reveal Enemy is cast on a hunter before he camos, he will be visible until the Reveal wears off, at which time he will camo (provided there is still some time left in the camo).

This implementation of Reveal still gives camo a lot of power, and looks like it will facilitate fluid gameplay. However, there may be a few problems:

1) Because of the speed malus, there should be a way to cancel Stalker without using a buff or attacking, especially since at level 5 Stalker is a 5 minute long spell. (Previously moving canceled it). Maybe simply pressing the Stalker icon/tile again?

2) Clearing forts of camoed Hunters is going to be a hellish process. Before other Hunters just used Escapist to run around the fort, as it triggered whenever you passed the enemy. Now it will require spamming Reveal and Track. Perhaps camoed players should just be ejected from forts when they are captured (though this will mean much less fun :().

3) The Hunter who casts Reveal Hunter has a sparkling animation around him for the duration of the spell. Since Reveal is not a buff, but a target debuff, there doesn't seem to be a purpose for this.

The way reveal works is just as you say; however, the duration ranges from 20 seconds at lvl 1 to 80 seconds at lvl 5 - a nice range is lvl 3 at 35 seconds. The individual cannot re-camo or re-stalker until the duration of the spell wears off (unless a mage dispells reveal).

Clearing of forts will be able to be done by 2 hunters just using reveal since reveal works in an arch at about range 30.

[Comp]

Lets look at all the updates NGD has made to hunters in the past 7 phases:

- Pets are removed when the hunter casts camouflague --> supportive addition to hunters
- Cold Blood --> offensive addtion for hunters
- Death Sentence --> supportive addition for hunters
- Reveal Enemy --> Supportive addition for hunters
- Improvement on Stalker Surrounding --> Supportive addition for hunters

and the one change made to marksman being the removal of a marksmans only support spell for an offensive damage buff

so clearly NGD is on the road to making hunters the real supportive archer and marksman the offensive archer and theres still more to come

Great post...and so so true. You'll see less and less pet based hunters because there's far more fun things for hunters to use in a support role. Also, pets can't camo. Current they can move with hunter under stalker - but Ponter pointed out that they are fixing that.

[Comp]

yes, but the pet makes up for this, and even more.

regards

You are going to see less and less pet hunters due to the support spells that hunters now have. Do you have a hunter? Cause I have a hunter and a marks - I've tested damage and my marks has far more sustained damage than my hunter. It is clear they are moving hunters more towards support.

The only spell we have that gives us any offense is cold blood - which if you want it you can have it :P 6 seconds and 300 mana where most the spells you use are going to be resisted...isn't worth it.

[UmarilsStillHere]

(try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)

Anyone got a level 50 knight and want to try this?

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Anyone got a level 50 knight and want to try this?

Too bad that my knight was deleted on Amun aswell. xD

[Kaixo]

Great post...and so so true. You'll see less and less pet based hunters because there's far more fun things for hunters to use in a support role. Also, pets can't camo. Current they can move with hunter under stalker - but Ponter pointed out that they are fixing that.
Pets are near useless.
If you use camouflage you lose pet, if you don't camo and don't use any surprise a warju or warlock will kill your pet in seconds, your damage is lower, you don't have barrier, you can't auto-heal, your new range is worse for your pet...barbarians will buff as they see you and kill your pet, knights resist a lot, and the two now have same or more speed....

So, as I see If I use pet I'm more useless in a war than before, If I'm hunting skin of the beast is as necessary as UM for barbs.
If I don't use pet I need to use an area (OP vs barbarian's areas) to kill one player and confuse to level things (bad for conjus). Cold blood is like 3 more hits, and you lose time buffing, it was better to use dual shot as it was before the nerf.

I also don't see any fun thing in the new support role, I prefer the dynamism of conjurers and knights.

[BigManOnCampus]

Originally Posted by Chilko
(try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)
Anyone got a level 50 knight and want to try this?

I just logged onto Amun and tried. I would be very disappointed with this if this were the "answer" to a reduced AO1. One major problem is I cant give anyone any hard numbers on how (in)effective this combination is because the "miss"es they cause in combat don't show up in the log, they're like phantom swings except the word "miss" flashes above your head. Basically, this is no solution, Precise Block in it's current incarnation on the live servers would seem to be about equal in effectiveness as this 500+ mana combination. I don't think I'm exagerrating by saying that. Also, this combination will only last less than 30 seconds for any knight, as both of those abilities are 1-second cast, and awareness has a 90-second cooldown.

[Shwish]

Pets are near useless.
If you use camouflage you lose pet, if you don't camo and don't use any surprise a warju or warlock will kill your pet in seconds, your damage is lower, you don't have barrier, you can't auto-heal, your new range is worse for your pet...barbarians will buff as they see you and kill your pet, knights resist a lot, and the two now have same or more speed....

So, as I see If I use pet I'm more useless in a war than before, If I'm hunting skin of the beast is as necessary as UM for barbs.
If I don't use pet I need to use an area (OP vs barbarian's areas) to kill one player and confuse to level things (bad for conjus). Cold blood is like 3 more hits, and you lose time buffing, it was better to use dual shot as it was before the nerf.

I also don't see any fun thing in the new support role, I prefer the dynamism of conjurers and knights.

Pets are not going to be useless at all. theres no reason why you cant set yourself up to be a Beast Master type archer and drop your stealth abilities. Do you really need to scream out tracks when there are 20 other hunters doing the same thing.

The problem is that many players are so focused on thier own damage that they neglect the skills in the pets tree. there are some godly defensive buffs and passives in the pet tree and not to mention the all powerful Beastial Wrath. A fully buffed pet in like a Ao1 knight doing 500 normals if you've ever fought one. you seriously wont even need to use a bow for this setup. i want to level a hunter up just to play with this style

And seeing the hunter coming is really irrelevant... we see every other class coming and they dont complain about that. The point of this update is for hunters to decide between being an Assassin or Beast Master and not have the best of both worlds

[metsie]

I did test storebought slow30 vs my epic slow30, average damage of 30shots to same target.

slow30 from store = 284.8average 100-124 +13

slow30 epic = 301.7average 108-132 +18 +11 +12 +13 +1dex

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8949/bowfight.png

as you can see, that epic bow is WAY better but damage is only ~17more

so if this goes like this to live, then FUUuuuuuu :(

[Kyrottimus]

Anyone got a level 50 knight and want to try this?

I've tried them both (together at the same time) along with Precise Block 5.

Sad to say, all still a waste of power points. The only genuine difference I noticed was one or two "miss" over my head (instead of evade) in the string of a several dozen attacks by 3 enemies helping me test (most of which made it through).

One other note, currently on Amun, the build I figured for my knight is so simplistic, I can for the first time since I hit 50 on him, play with just two hotbars and not keep the spellbook open for additional abilities.

Versatility seems to be making way for simplicity and cookie-cutter singularized purpose. And not to mention, a really nice epic weapon is doing 17 more damage than a normal store-bought of the same speed/range/class?

...yikes. This *will* really hurt platinum box sales---bad.

[Minorian]

Too bad that my knight was deleted on Amun aswell. xD

The funny thing is, you can still add all your characters as friends....and you can see their stats in the war status. Nice try Daar :P

And just a suggestion to NGD, could stat gems be added as well? (ie dex gem, str gem, consti gem...etc) That in combination with a lowering of premium gem cost may well help make up for box losses.

[doppelapfel]

Force armor: duration increased to 60 seconds Cooldown increased to 70s. Protection reduced to 10-30%
I fear this spell will be only usefull against dots like lightning or ice blast and nobody will use it. Maybe make it a situational spell too, like +80% armor, 10 duration, 25 cd or sth like that.


Precise block: Same duration for all levels (30s). Block chance adjusted 10%-30% from level 1 to 5.
Tested this on my low knight with mobs, still no effect noticed.


Dead Eye: speed penalty reduced to 5%- 15% from level 1 to 5.
Still useless. Only very small dps increase.


Steel Skin: Resistance Bonus reduced to 50%-70% from level 1 to 5
Good. 90% were a joke lol.


Heroic Presence: Cooldown reduced to 120 seconds. Cast time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Protection reduced 40% - 80% from level 1 to 5. Mana reduced to 320 – 400 from level 1 to 5.
Good.



Army of One: changed for a more tactical use. Duration Reduced to 10 seconds in all levels. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. Casting time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Mana reduced in all levels to 320 to 400 from levels 1 to 5. (try using a combination of awareness and rigorous preparation for better tanking)
I love the duration and cd but mana costs are too high. Awareness and preparation could be improved as well as blocking spells.


Natural Armor: Protection reduced to 10% to 30%.
Hm useless i guess.


New Spell for hunters: Reveal Enemy. Allows a Hunter to interrupt the effect of camouflage, Stalker Surroundings , and camouflage corps. Duration 15-50 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds. Mana 200-300.
Great.


Enhanced Stalker Surroundings: Now caster and his allies can move with a reduced speed of 40%. Allies loose the effect if they get 10 meters away from caser for a period of 5 seconds.
Pets should die or whatever, otherwise its like the old camo + ambush + conf + pet. Beside that: Awesome!


BUG fix: a bug with Recharged Arrows when running out of mana has been fixed.

Nice.

[Znurre]

The funny thing is, you can still add all your characters as friends....and you can see their stats in the war status. Nice try Daar :PDeleted characters are not removed from clan lists, friend lists, rp list, etc.
Same goes for people who used the character transfers to Horus.

[Raely]

So far i like the update but please make barbarians less dependant on buffs and add some dynamics:
- Improve Overwhelming Strength
- Make Berserk something like 15 secs durations and 40secs cooldown
- Change Thirst for Blood to an activable spell like Recharged Arrow
- Lower duration and cooldown of Unstoppable Madness
- Lower mana costs

I leave the balancing to Ngd, but i think this is needed to make barbarians gameplay more enjoyable.

[metsie]

Now I tested epic vs storebought agaisnt trolls, and storebought hits 10~MORE than epic :O I had to check my calculations 3 times before I believed it :P

I really really hope that there is some bugs, 186max vs 137max weapons should never hit like that :lightsabre:

[tjanex]

Aaah crap petless will become harder now :(

[_Enio_]

While you are on Hunters NGD, Skin of the Beast damage reduction should not be up to 90% for 30 seconds.

60 or 70% on 5 should make this power more balanced.

[Comp]

While you are on Hunters NGD, Skin of the Beast damage reduction should not be up to 90% for 30 seconds.

60 or 70% on 5 should make this power more balanced.

Skin of the Beast is waaaay too much on level 5. A hunter can (with this new point system) comfortably configure to have lvl 5 Natural Armor, lvl 5 Skin of the Beast - who cares about beastial wrath...the damage added isn't much due to initial damage of the pet now anyway. But protecting him like that is waaay over the top. - You make the pet virtually unkillable for 30 seconds.

[HidraA]

One think at all this confusing 237467236 ideas:
Maybe i am too stupid but for me this not have sense:
-Why slow bows make lowets dmg like fast bows?

Slowest shot must make more dmg in my opinion.
Is like two handet sword and one handet.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

So far i like the update but please make barbarians less dependant on buffs and add some dynamics:
- Improve Overwhelming Strength
- Make Berserk something like 15 secs durations and 40secs cooldown
- Change Thirst for Blood to an activable spell like Recharged Arrow
- Lower duration and cooldown of Unstoppable Madness
- Lower mana costs

I leave the balancing to Ngd, but i think this is needed to make barbarians gameplay more enjoyable.

i like all f those ideas except for the change for berzerk, berzerk imo should stay as it is. 15 seconds would make it really tough to use effectively. i would accept it if we didnt also get nerfed in dmg (along with everyone else)

[Vroek]

One think at all this confusing 237467236 ideas:
Maybe i am too stupid but for me this not have sense:
-Why slow bows make lowets dmg like fast bows?

Slowest shot must make more dmg in my opinion.
Is like two handet sword and one handet.

Its like 0.2 sec difference between bow speeds, it used to be like 0.6-0.7 in difference before the ranged attack speed increase.

[Froste]

Can Reveal be resisted? :)

Yes. 10char.

[HidraA]

Its like 0.2 sec difference between bow speeds, it used to be like 0.6-0.7 in difference before the ranged attack speed increase.

If is like this is kinda stupid...
Speed of bows between slow and fast must be realy visible and dmg of slow must be highter....
Lmao this game became to not have sense in some ideeas...
Maybe is fantasy game...but not call them slow and fast anymore...just long and short...
-make slow bows to hit highter and speed realy visible like 0.5-1 sec between.
Make one game with logic please

And about topic....
Ahhaaha 10 sec A01 ahahah this is kinda stupid think ever.
Short time of spells will make game hardest to be played.
Now only mages have advantage of 60 sec buff?...or 120 arcane acceleration?
I am stuned every day about this ideas.
Like more ppl told make him 30 sec at least and cut mana cost.
This kind of short spells not make wars longer for sure think a bit...if one tank isn't one tank then is useless.
Here are 2 ideas what fight one each another:
-"wee nerfred demage to make fights longer"
-"wee made lowest duration of buffs for?"
One barb need around 10-15 sec to buff...if you make all this spells 10 sec(sarcasm) then is kinda stupid.
Anyway lots of classes need to buffs a lots by definition...if all spells have short duration
is damn hard to keep 3-4 buffs up.
On test server look good some of them.When all people make PvP or just testing.
But usual by experience when you grind and one hunter come frome camo,or when you fight on live server in huge zergs isnt so easy to buuf 3-4 spells and fight or keep them up.
But for 400 mana i am realy sure noone will use that because he will go out of mana for second one.
Now all will reskil for Sc,ripost ,kick and fieth 5 etc will be more knarbs like before.
As hunter or marx one distract shot 4 or ambush 4 and he is dead.
Sorry but who made previos balance had more logic ...employ him back

[chilko]

Natural Armor: Protection reduced to 10% to 30%.
Hm useless i guess.




Please try to avoid this kind of comments...
base protection has been increased a lot. this is why multipliers need to be toned down. have you actually tried this before saying that now the spell is useless?

[UmarilsStillHere]

Quick tests just with these 2 spells:
http://a.imageshack.us/img17/5953/test3ek.png (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/test3ek.png/)

+2 'Miss'
Clearly this is not viable tanking.

[bois]

I remain cautiously hopeful.

Ao1 needs a second look. Maybe a variable time from 10-30 seconds and a reconsideration of mana cost. I would not mind losing protection coverage to gain some time on this spell.

Rigorous preparation + awareness is not a viable option. Considering I cannot increase my evasion rate in any meaningful way (knight) to help with the evasion %, challenge (2) remains as a much more viable alternative.
Tanking with this spell which basically moves my evasion % from an average of 14% to about %17 with barbs, and considering crash(1) could almost nullify it, makes this spell less that desirable.
Also, powers cannot be evaded. As far as I know they can be blocked and resisted .
Rigorous prep deals with normal hits and the low rate of ~20% evasion for 290 mana does not seem to be useful. Even paired up with challenge (5) my calculations suggest I can get up to 37% evasion versus a single opponent(decent). Adding crash to the equation makes this spell look rather dull again. In a RvR sense it is the equivalent of a paper shield.

Right now resists are a knight's best friend. Blocking second and evade a distant third. I can't even see Miss in the distance.

A spell that registers a miss every ~20 hits is also less than desirable. (tested).
I also found it funny when I matched Intimidating threat (debuff one opponent) versus Awareness (self buff) . what does +10 miss chance equate to in % miss chance?

Artec

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

Please try to avoid this kind of comments...
base protection has been increased a lot. this is why multipliers need to be toned down. have you actually tried this before saying that now the spell is useless?

this may be a bit off topic, but im starting to think that YOU dont try these spells on amun. take Ao1 for example, its on the verge of uselessness because the duration is not worth the points. onslaught we already went over. and so on. its as if you just throw some values at it and call it a day.

and your suggestion for rigorous preparation and awareness, did u HONESTLY believe that anyone would find that viable?

[Dracice]

If is like this is kinda stupid...
Speed of bows between slow and fast must be realy visible and dmg of slow must be highter....
Lmao this game became to not have sense in some ideeas...


Lol i totaly agree xD
+1

[Kaixo]

Pets are not going to be useless at all. theres no reason why you cant set yourself up to be a Beast Master type archer and drop your stealth abilities. Do you really need to scream out tracks when there are 20 other hunters doing the same thing.

The problem is that many players are so focused on thier own damage that they neglect the skills in the pets tree. there are some godly defensive buffs and passives in the pet tree and not to mention the all powerful Beastial Wrath. A fully buffed pet in like a Ao1 knight doing 500 normals if you've ever fought one. you seriously wont even need to use a bow for this setup. i want to level a hunter up just to play with this style

And seeing the hunter coming is really irrelevant... we see every other class coming and they dont complain about that. The point of this update is for hunters to decide between being an Assassin or Beast Master and not have the best of both worlds
¿Godly defensive buffs?, one to reduce 70 damage or something like that (or you think the pet has a super armor and 40% brigs a super bonus) and other to give 300hp to my pet. If you don't know barbarians kill pets in 1-2 hits, warlocks the same. Perhaps you are the only one in the game that have not seen that pets die.
If they see me in a PVP mages can cast ivy or beetle swarm and kill my pet easily, barbarians buff themselves and kill my pet quickly. It's not a thing of having the best of two worlds, the problem is to don't have anyyhing of the two worlds because people kills your pet.

[Miraculix]

I would like to express my concerns to this balance update concerning the 2 new hunter spells, Stalker & Reveal:

1) Reveal is WAY TOO POWERFUL to be a low level spell in the tree. This spell effectively NULLIFIES the KEY ability of a hunter - stealth. I have to invest hard to get good stealth, yet it can be easily removed, with a medium mana cost and a ridiculously low cooldown. This is insane - this is a VERY powerful spell, it's a clear level 19 spell. I don't even think it's a good idea to give it that to hunters too, with the new stalker (see below). Why not give it to knights?

2) The new Stalker... A VERY powerful spell - in my opinion way too powerful. Entire armies going poof only because of 3 hunters? And then you add an equally (maybe more) powerful, easily obtainable spell to counter it again to the same class? The two most powerful spells (imo) in the hands of the same character, one directly confronting the other? This creates an extremely fragile, unstable, volatile state of balance.

3) The new state of stealth in the game in general: Stealth, while becoming more common because of the new stalker, and being so easily countered by reveal, is probably going to dominate fights from now on, like 1 sultar used to do before. Also, camouflage has lost most of its value now - ANY OTHER CLASS CAN HAVE MORE INVISIBILITY, and what is more, my hard acquired invisibility can be removed by a level 20 hunter.... this is insane.

My suggestion: Move Reveal to ANY OTHER CLASS (dare I say knight?) and make it a level 19 spell, with a cooldown around 2 minutes. Reveal SHOULD ONLY CANCEL STALKER, NOT CAMO. Hunters need to maintain their edge in stealth. Lower the duration of the current stalker to be 3 minutes maximum.

It is my opinion as a player, not a game developer. I am not bashing your balance thoughts, just expressing my concerns!

Regards.

[Warthog]

NGD I am very very confused here. And this is my take on knights and there tanking and what truly annoys me about how you are going about this.

1. Ao1 - situational now, I can live with that but 10 secs at 400 mana on lvl 5 I think is a bit harsh. I would really like to see either slightly more duration or slightly less mana, your stated goal is to make fights longer using this skill set as it is is not within this vision in my view as it takes about 1/3 of your mana for 10 sec tanking, pretty much a waist of mana for a longer duration fight.

2. Defensive stance - It is only adding armor points which all in all does not help much unless being attacked by someone using a fast weapon for most part. It destroys ability to support in my opinion, very few choices of what to do if can't cast damaging powers aside from stand there looking dumb and feint someone every once in awhile. CC spells like balestra and ribs breaker should be allowed.

3. Rigorous prep/awareness/block/precise block - The only somewhat viable tank options are all luck/chance based. Anyone who actively plays this game will tell you 8 of 10 times having to rely on luck/chance skills will equal you dead.

4. Caution - Shared with barbs but only real feasible option for defense in my view aside from the passive resists in the weapon tree's which are also shared.

Now all this as is I could live with except for one MAJOR issue that I have. As defined by you the knights are the tanking class, ok. So most of there tankabilty I take it from your point of view should come from combinations of spells in number 3. Ok, I can deal with that. But if a knight is the tank class, why do other classes have tank skills that are NOT luck/chance based as a knight is going to be forced to be? To be a tank in my view you either need to give knights skills on par with other classes tank skills or give other classes skills on par with the knights tank skills. Let me list other class spells quickly.

Archers
Marks/Hunter - Acrobatic, Fixed reduction of damage not based on armor points.
Marks - Strategic position, Fixed reduction of ranged damage not based on armor points.
Barb - Frenzy, Fixed reduction of physical damage no based on armor points.
Conj - Steel Skin, Fixed reduction of damage not based on armor points.

These things in my mind are the things that piss many knights off, myself especially. I am supposed to be the tank but almost every other class has better true tanking skills especially now with Ao1 becoming even more situational based use. So either you need to give knights a true tanking skill on par with these spells. Or these true tanking skills that other classes have need to be completely changed and reworked to be Miss chance/Crit miss chance as what you want by Chilko's own post a knights tankability to be based on. Now I know other classes will hate this suggestion but that should just go to show you even more why it should be done. Make the tank a tank or make the rest be based on luck/chance same as the tank it is only fair.