New balance update: armor, damage and healing (Stage 12)

[chilko]

Here you have the change log for the version currently on Amun.

Armors:
As we are still tweaking armors we have been altering damage multipliers. Please try it out.


Armor class factor working as intended: we increased the armor factor for all classes but now each class has a different armor factor. From more to less armor this is the order: Knights, barbarian, Marksman, Hunter, Warlock, Conjurer.
New armor formula for Damage Over Time.
New preliminary damage adjustments for the new armor system


General:


New model for imps summon
More balance adjustments to summons.
Base evasion and spell resistance greately reduced. Skills affecting this attributes have not been tweaked yet. Please tell us if you notice any difference.


Spells:


Sorcery discipline changes: Material wall and magic barrier are moved to sorcery in replacement of Tremor (removed) and Mirage (removed).
New Life discipline spells: in place of Material Wall and Magic Barrier we are adding:
Life Savior: heals 20%to 60% of health from level 1 to 5. Mana cost : 240 to 400. Cooldown 60 seconds. Casting Time 3 seconds.
Heal Ally: Heals 5% to 12%. Mana cost reduced to 50-145. Cooldown reduced to 5 seconds.
Mass resurrection: 5%-50% chance from level 1 to 5 of reviving everyone within a radius of 6 meters. Cooldown 4 minutes. Cast time: 5 seconds. Manna cost: 400-800.
Major healing: moved to a lower level in the discipline. Cast time reduced to 3 seconds. Cooldown reduced to 2 minutes.



BUG FIX: several targeting problems with summons have been fixed.
BUG FIX: Spawns do not blend while playing spawning animation


We are getting closer. To follow soon after this: new blocking spells, a major mana revision and more tweaking.

minimum damage formula is still off. Remember that.

[chilko]

sorry for closing the thread... I hope I don't do balance like I use the forum! :)

[Ulti19]

I'm glad you're making knights armor have more impact than that of a barbarian or other class. It makes sense that a player shouldn't hit a knight as much as he hits another class by, nice job :)

A small problem though. You made it so that the attack power is raised again as in the live version but attack speed is faster. So im hitting normal 400's unbuffed very fast lol. Is this a bug? Stage 11 i was hitting significantly lower on mobs than stage 12.

New blocking powers? :D I can't wait ^^

[_Arwen_]

Life Savior:
First, thank you for adding a 3rd heal spell it is really needed. However, I think 60 seconds is way too long. I'd rather see this cut down to 30s CD with 20% to 40% heal. I can tell you want this new spell to only be used in emergencies, but I think 30s is enough to prevent spamming while still allowing it to be useful.

Heal Ally:
My initial reaction to this was "ugh... not again" until I realized you halved the CD but the % wasn't halved. Now you can actually heal someone for 24% in the same time as the old 20% heal ally. Good move here. I think mana cost could be reduced a bit more as right now it seems 2 of these is equal to 1 Live Servers heal ally, but costs 50 mana more and heals on the Live servers are already mana hogs.

Mass Resurrection:
This spell literally sounds like a waste of 800 mana. First, you basically have to have it on 5 otherwise the chance is way too low. 5% on level 1??? What is the point in this??? Second, you're paying 800 mana for a 50:50 shot at resurrecting someone (is it all or nothing? or is it 50% for each person?). Maybe you could ensure that at least 1 person is resurrected and its 50% per remaining person. Or you could only charge mana based on each person that its successful on. For example if it works on 2 people you'd only remove 400 mana.

Major Healing:
Good move, thanks



Overall I'm fairly happy with this stage. Keep up the good work, I'm really looking forward to the mana tweak stage.

[brammie2118]

The new Imps models are funny :D

But after a few seconds of trying it out
(maybe/probably this is discussed in the stage 10 thread, but I didn't really follow that one. if so, sorry):
The zombies and lich are moving towards/attacking the target while the animation of them comming out of the ground is still ongoing.
The imp(5) dies after 1 attack.
The monsters do one extra attack after they defeat a summon.
:)

[HidraA]

Mass resurrection: 5%-50% chance from level 1 to 5 of reviving everyone within a radius of 6 meters. Cooldown 4 minutes. Cast time: 5 seconds. Manna cost: 400-800.

Old VS look better on my eyes ...even conj sacrifice himself for this..at least was 100%...this 50% chance... :)..is like ms...will will see how will work :)
But sound funny too..2 conj can resurect one army at forts doors also

[VandaMan]

From more to less armor this is the order: Knights, barbarian, Marksman, Hunter, Warlock, Conjurer.

Is there any way you can better define the roles of the archer classes for us? I thought marksmen were the offensive discipline while hunters were defensive, so why do marksmen get more armor? Not that I object to or approve of the way the armor is, I'm just not clear on the vision you have for archers I guess.

[Minorian]

Is there any way you can better define the roles of the archer classes for us? I thought marksmen were the offensive discipline while hunters were defensive, so why do marksmen get more armor? Not that I object to or approve of the way the armor is, I'm just not clear on the vision you have for archers I guess.

I think marksmen are meant to be more of a decent defense decent offense turret type thing, whereas hunters are the weaker ones, that use stealth/speed/pet for defense.

[Ulti19]

Huge problems with knight lol. precise block on level one guarantees all hits to be blocked 100% xD I can go cast pb and offensive stance and solo aysor now lol.

Btw is the damage increase for everyone intentional?

You know the server is bugged when a knight can solo Aysor. Build: offensive stance, pb, gutting 5 xD

[Aeacus]

Damge increase indeed :) not sure if this was just a fix to the mobs armor rating which decreased thus my damage increased or what, but im loving the new damage of marks. Its maybe 10 -20 less damage than live atm for me at least, and there seems to be a damage scale back on bows...slow bow equals more damge than med , fast bows, noticable to :) maybe im just getting my hopes up for failure in the next stage, but atm marks are feeling the way they should be...

[bois]

So far looking decent. I only tested conjurer though. Life saviour is a huge spell. 60% heal on (5) is quite a lot. I managed an 1805 heal on an archer which is rather impressive. Maybe too impressive I fear. Healing a 5k HP knight on level (5) could mean a 3000 heal. That might just be over the top.

I had a look at DoTs. Two in particular. Sultars Devouring mass and splinter wall.

Splinter wall was doing in the 80's against a normal mob and SDM did an impressive 101 per tick on a normal mob. The one dot killed the mob by the time it got to the 17th tick. this would be a lvl 48 mob btw.

On an unbuffed Knight SDM did ~91 per tick and splinter wall did in the 50's. Not bad numbers. I did not get a chance to test versus some buffed characters because a dim witted character killed me far from home. . At this stage I suggest that a common altar be placed so we can test properly (if not done so already).

Regards
Artec

[bois]

Huge problems with knight lol. precise block on level one guarantees all hits to be blocked 100% xD I can go cast pb and offensive stance and solo aysor now lol.

Btw is the damage increase for everyone intentional?

You know the server is bugged when a knight can solo Aysor. Build: offensive stance and pb lol xD

I have seen this. I also noticed that the 2 dots I am testing also cut through that blocking bug like a knife through hot butter. I killed an easy knight using the bug with these 2 dots alone. the Knight got hit with 117 per tick through the block. All my normals were blocked seems the norm for this bug.

Artec

By the way, I am asking please spawn a common save. I am trying to test at CS (only congregation) but having to run back every time some clown kills me for jajajajas is taxing my nerves.

[BigManOnCampus]

I have seen this. I also noticed that the 2 dots I am testing also cut through that blocking bug like a knife through hot butter. I killed an easy knight using the bug with these 2 dots alone. the Knight got hit with 117 per tick through the block. All my normals were blocked seems the norm for this bug.

This is because spells are currently not behaving the same way as normals on amun. They're blocked significantly less than normals, but still waay too much. I've noticed that ability attacks, mage spells, etc... would only get blocked like 50% of the time. for instance, I could still get kicked over several times in my testing of PB, but all the rest of the normals were blocked. Dunno why this is, but it is.

[Gytha_Ogg]

I think marksmen are meant to be more of a decent defense decent offense turret type thing, whereas hunters are the weaker ones, that use stealth/speed/pet for defense.

I guess the same would apply to warlock > conjurer, conjs have the defensive skills in Sorcery, and summons-es to augment the tissue paper we wrap ourselves in. Oh, and Healing, that's good too. :biggrin:

[TheMessenger]

All I have to say is that marks seems to be better on Amun than on Live, I think that now it is just the mana issue. I can do higher norms on Amun than on Live so that is pretty awesome.

Just keep whatever you have done to make me/us hit harder on mobs, makes grinding alot easier and funner (the spells you give mobs DO NOT make grinding funner -_-) and I will be happy.

[Jippy]

"I am trying to test at CS (only congregation) but having to run back every time some clown kills me for jajajajas is taxing my nerves."

Can there be Amun server wide message in all languages (during login) stating this a testing server and NOT to purposely kill people (unless for testing)?

(Artec - if u need some help cleaning out the "jajajajajajjas" let me know)

Regards,

[bois]

All I have to say is that marks seems to be better on Amun than on Live, I think that now it is just the mana issue. I can do higher norms on Amun than on Live so that is pretty awesome.

Just keep whatever you have done to make me/us hit harder on mobs, makes grinding alot easier and funner (the spells you give mobs DO NOT make grinding funner -_-) and I will be happy.

I tend to agree. Marks damage is looking rather scary at the moment. Not a bad thing mind you. I was testing stuff with Aeacus and along with my conjurer buffs (lvl 5s) plus his, he was actually getting ~725 normals even managing a 980 critical. This was with dirty fighting in the mix though so I suppose I would have to discount that one for war. But good numbers all the same. Is serpent bite reporting better results?

Things seem to little by little coming into focus. Can someone help me report back on Sultar Devouring mass and Splinter wall ? I am yet to get those spells blocked or resisted. I have a 100% success rate so far with no spell focus rings on. Mind you I only tried the spell 10 times on opponents.
I am yet to test versus Defensive stance. If these DoTs go through as they are now they could be quite worthy spells. A tad disturbing too. Hitting a lock for 117 (I did this) per tick over 20 seconds could be fatal. To me it seems rather high. Add splinter wall at ~50 per tick and this is getting interesting.

The way these DoTs are responding makes me wonder about Twister, ice blast and summon lightning. back to Amun I guess.

Edit: Checking Twister and Ice blast on the Golems between PB and PN tells me that I should wait till the next iteration. I managed to kill several Golems using just ice blast ,Twister and a few normal hits. Ice blast was delivering about ~120 and Twister did about 105 per tick (lvl 5). I suppose they will be tuned in the next round. Lightning did about 230 on these same mobs if you were wondering. Maybe I test on opponents tomorrow.

[Kittypretty]

any plans to extend range of staffs? cuz it seems kinda unfair even hunters can hit me with sb speed at range 30...and im stuck at 25, unless you use projection, but seems a bit unfair yet lol. specially since most lvl 50 staffs are either fast 20, slow 30, or med 25...cant do much dps that way.

and why no defense at all for confuse? barbs can have defense for cant attack skills..yet conjs are still completely disabled so easily. whats worse is it affects targets even on the ground, as if it needed that too. you took away conjs only reliable barb defense as well under conditions like a typical conj faces, a hunter confuse spam and then barb UM rush, we cant use steel skin, karma, mind push, etc, all these defense people say we have to survive, dont mean crap when you are confused and cant cast them. Swarm was one reliable way to counter while confused. All this would be well and fine, all i ask for is at least some reliable self defense against being confused..thats why you dont see supporters in wz often.

[KKharzov]

Looks very fine indeed. Levling is going to be MUCH easier. It's too bad tremor was removed though, shame to lose a working skill, maybe move it to another tree?

DoT spell error:
Impale's DoT effect only lasts for 5 ticks, not the full 21 seconds.

[Isemon]

changes seems really appealing for conjuring, need to test though, keep up the good work:thumb_up: i will add my comments later :D

[Pnarpa]

Dispel magic now gives the onslaught animation. Probably a bug. :p

[ncvr]

The onslaught animation was the old dispel magic animation, before the animations update around 1.0.

[Pnarpa]

The onslaught animation was the old dispel magic animation, before the animations update around 1.0.

Bah, don't like it. I liked the breaking sound.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Huge problems with knight lol. precise block on level one guarantees all hits to be blocked 100% xD I can go cast pb and offensive stance and solo aysor now lol.

Btw is the damage increase for everyone intentional?

You know the server is bugged when a knight can solo Aysor. Build: offensive stance, pb, gutting 5 xD

It's because Hit Chance has been greatly reduced, me likey. :superpusso: (So I guess my great hit chance gem is going to be worth using, eh)

EDIT: or it's because of this:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7497/screenshot2010090211085.png

[Miraculix]

Any plans to revise "Reveal" down the road? Like here (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1119015&postcount=103)?

[Myxir]

Cool changes on conjurer. But we don't have enough power points for a balanced support and defense setup^^

[e30G]

I'm fine with the points required, but I'm a bit concerned with the cast times. The Conjurer stuff are usually spells you cast in emergencies and I feel 3s cast times for non-area spells like Life Saviour are too slow. Maybe 1.5s is better?

[Knekelvoeste]

Is there any way you can better define the roles of the archer classes for us? I thought marksmen were the offensive discipline while hunters were defensive, so why do marksmen get more armor? Not that I object to or approve of the way the armor is, I'm just not clear on the vision you have for archers I guess.

I believe marksmen were the class with high defense and high attack but with the lower agility and speed. While hunter has its stealth and speed.

But i can always be wrong ofcourse.

[Pnarpa]

I'm fine with the points required, but I'm a bit concerned with the cast times. The Conjurer stuff are usually spells you cast in emergencies and I feel 3s cast times for non-area spells like Life Saviour are too slow. Maybe 1.5s is better?

Agreed. With a 3 second cast time, it can hardly be called a "Life savior".

[Kaixo]

The damage is too high.

Conjurers:
More healing powers is good, more difference between support conjurer and "warjurer".
Mana costs are very high, we'll see in future updates.
The problem with Confuse remains.

[Kaixo]

I believe marksmen were the class with high defense and high attack but with the lower agility and speed. While hunter has its stealth and speed.

But i can always be wrong ofcourse.
The speed difference is lower, and now you can't camouflage with your pet.

[Creror]

Huge problems with knight lol. precise block on level one guarantees all hits to be blocked 100% xD I can go cast pb and offensive stance and solo aysor now lol.

Btw is the damage increase for everyone intentional?

You know the server is bugged when a knight can solo Aysor. Build: offensive stance, pb, gutting 5 xD

Once it was bugged and the knights blocked too little, now it's bugged again and we can block everything.

But under us knights: THATS the way it should be! >:D

Anyway, please fix that, or else "1 knight vs 1 knight" fights will be like two wobbuffet fighting against each other in online battle ...

[Gabburtjuh]

I believe marksmen were the class with high defense and high attack but with the lower agility and speed. While hunter has its stealth and speed.

But i can always be wrong ofcourse.

same, but stealth was nerfed(reveal) and speed(think its 20% for 10 power points now)

[Shwish]

Anyway, please fix that, or else "1 knight vs 1 knight" fights will be like two wobbuffet fighting against each other in online battle ...

or that epic fight where a matepod went up against another metapod.

same, but stealth was nerfed(reveal)

if a spell gets a counter-spell, doesnt mean its nerfed

[bois]

Once it was bugged and the knights blocked too little, now it's bugged again and we can block everything.

But under us knights: THATS the way it should be! >:D

Anyway, please fix that, or else "1 knight vs 1 knight" fights will be like two wobbuffet fighting against each other in online battle ...

I have not tested it yet but I have a suspicion that NGD sneaked in this as a precursor to the new blocking spells they are working on. It could be a test to gather stats. As of now it is indeed god mode. Could we be seeing the birth of a 10 second immunity spell for Knights? I relish the thought.


Be advised that beetle swarm is getting blocked more than half the time with this spell but other dots like splinter wall and Sultar's Devouring mass are ripping through it. No knight I cast it on (so far) has been able to resist or block it .

With that said, DoTs damage are rather high. I expect tuning next round.

Art

[doppelapfel]

Here you have the change log for the version currently on Amun.

Armors:
As we are still tweaking armors we have been altering damage multipliers. Please try it out.


Armor class factor working as intended: we increased the armor factor for all classes but now each class has a different armor factor. From more to less armor this is the order: Knights, barbarian, Marksman, Hunter, Warlock, Conjurer.
New armor formula for Damage Over Time.
New preliminary damage adjustments for the new armor system


General:


New model for imps summon
More balance adjustments to summons.

Base evasion and spell resistance greately reduced. Skills affecting this attributes have not been tweaked yet. Please tell us if you notice any difference.


Spells:


Sorcery discipline changes: Material wall and magic barrier are moved to sorcery in replacement of Tremor (removed) and Mirage (removed).
New Life discipline spells: in place of Material Wall and Magic Barrier we are adding:
Life Savior: heals 20%to 60% of health from level 1 to 5. Mana cost : 240 to 400. Cooldown 60 seconds. Casting Time 3 seconds.
Heal Ally: Heals 5% to 12%. Mana cost reduced to 50-145. Cooldown reduced to 5 seconds.
Mass resurrection: 5%-50% chance from level 1 to 5 of reviving everyone within a radius of 6 meters. Cooldown 4 minutes. Cast time: 5 seconds. Manna cost: 400-800.
Major healing: moved to a lower level in the discipline. Cast time reduced to 3 seconds. Cooldown reduced to 2 minutes.



BUG FIX: several targeting problems with summons have been fixed.
BUG FIX: Spawns do not blend while playing spawning animation


We are getting closer. To follow soon after this: new blocking spells, a major mana revision and more tweaking.

minimum damage formula is still off. Remember that.

I didnt have time to test everything yet but what i read and saw is great! :thumb_up: DoTs are a bit op but i like the fact oure improving them, same for blocks. The conju spells are good in general but as said some mana costs and casting times may need a fix.

[Myxir]

The problem with Confuse remains.

Yes. One spell to disable a complete class.

[Isemon]

I see a really good work on conju, but i think there should be some tweaks on mana costs.

Life savior casting time is too high
Mass resurrection has a mana cost way to expensive for only 50% chance on lv5, i mean it is 50% chance that the spell works? or 50% chance per target to be ressed? And it works on all deads in range 6? i mean if i have 10 deads in range i have the chance to resurrect them all?

Thanks for nice work.

[Isemon]

The problem with Confuse remains.

NGD said that they like confuse as it is now, it is an interesting spell in RVR for them, so i doubt they will change it.
Conjurers can Divine intervenction each other to prevent that spell to be casted on another conjurer.

[e30G]

Tested my Conjurer on a few small group fights. Here are some of my insights:


Heal Ally is fine if you want to focus on a single target. I think on bigger fights it will be a bit frustrating to use. It's just too much stopping for a very small spell that is easily negated by a single normal.
Single heal spells no longer work with guards which I assume was intentional to prevent GC abuse. Does this mean we can't heal gem carriers too?
Life Savior cast time is OK on a small fight. On a big fight, I still think 1.5s is better.
Greater Healing is very difficult to cast. Everyone is usually moving so you lose your targets by the time it fires off. Either increase the area to area 10 or reduce the cast time on this too.
Regenerate Ally might need a shorter CD. It would be nice to be able to cast this on 2-3 targets at a time.
Confuse is still a Conjurer gameplay killer. It forces Conjurers to play in pairs which is unfair, since no other class is this heavily penalized. We cannot kill as supporters so we have to rely on others, and we also have to rely on others of our class to function reliably.


As far as balance goes, pre 1.0 a single Conjurer can support an entire party in war. After the Heal nerfs (pre buffing removed, cast times and costs raised) it was more like 1 Conjurer to 4 allies. In the Amun version, I see it as a 1:1 support. Changing Regenerate Ally cooldown and allowing prebuffing of all regen spells will allow for a little more dynamics for this class again.

Another thing, Intelligence should have a bigger effect on mana regeneration. Also, can we do away with the combat stance on every single spell? It's annoying.

[Isemon]

I agree with ernest that is really hard now to keep someone alive with heal ally, here my test:

heal ally on a targed(mage) with 3000 hp x 12% = 360 hp
heal ally on a target(archer) with 3400 hp x12%= 408 hp
heal ally on a barbarian with 4100 hpx12%=492hp
heal ally on a knight with 5100 hp x12%=612hp

5 sec cd mean 3 hits from a fast weapon( 600+ dmg from barbarians using medium weapon or 250 from a fast bow so 1800 dmg from a barbarian and 750 from a hunter)

This mean that you have to focus on a single target to keep it alive, and in a war with heavy fire this is almost impossible.

[elendriel]

I agree with ernest that is really hard now to keep someone alive with heal ally, here my test:

heal ally on a targed(mage) with 3000 hp x 12% = 360 hp
heal ally on a target(archer) with 3400 hp x12%= 408 hp
heal ally on a barbarian with 4100 hpx12%=492hp
heal ally on a knight with 5100 hp x12%=612hp

5 sec cd mean 3 hits from a fast weapon( 600+ dmg from barbarians using medium weapon or 250 from a fast bow so 1800 dmg from a barbarian and 750 from a hunter)

This mean that you have to focus on a single target to keep it alive, and in a war with heavy fire this is almost impossible.
But you have life saviour, and it is very usefull.

[UmarilsStillHere]

But you have life saviour, and it is very usefull.

Once every 60 seconds with a pretty high mana cost and cast time :p

[ieti]

+1 for Galynn

One of most annoying things in conjurer play is going into combat mode on every spell cast. Could we get combat mode only on demand please? Combat mode is needed only if you want to poke someone with staff, and highly unneeded and annoying if you cast something. I have to constantly push combat key to go out of combat mode. Please please fix this.

Prebuffing with regenerate was a thing that added a little more fun to conju play - you regen someone which is not so targeted and forget about if for a little second.

Heal Ally is fine with 5s colldown. I thing ammount healed is a little low. 15% or 20% will be good.

Life Saver is good spell as design, but cast time is too big. To save life you need to react fast. 3s is biig biig time for this 1 - 1.5s will be way better.

I like to put most annoying things as a conjurer for me:

1. Constantly going in combat mode. Unneeded, annoying must remove.
2. Constant mana hunger. Something have to be done for conjurer mana balance. It was alot better before heals and dispell was risen in mana cosumption. Lowering cooldowns puts even more strain on mana pool this have to be evaluated carefully.
3. Cooldowns and cast times. Sometimes ally dies for seconds, because it is focused, highly targeted etc etc etc. Conjurer needs to react and cast fast, so he can support his allies good. Big cast times and cooldowns most of times makes me look my teammates die before my eyes.
4. Confuse. This is awfull stopper. Nearly every archer have this spell. Even on level 1 it is conjurer killer. Something have to be done about it. Lower duration, make it expensive to use, make it high in trees, add fail chance, add resist factor in Mind Blank. Something have to be done. I can even propose dispell to be changed so it can be casted on self when you are confused.
5. Freedom, versativity, speed - we need this. Support is not so fun as killing, so conjurer needs to be easier to play.

Maybe more things can be added.

Sad is conjurer is not so appealing and fun, and people who play it really like it. Make it more appealing. Remove annoyances. As Galynn says 1 conjurer must be capable of supporting freely upto 10 allies. 1 conjurer must must be capable of saving focused ally. After 1.0 this is not the case. With every balance conjurer becomes less and less effective.

Most conjus i know i only see on boss kills. Everyday played conjus in Syrtis/Horus are maybe 5-10. Others...they are bossmob puppets...This was not the situation pre 1.0

[e30G]

But you have life saviour, and it is very usefull.


Yes which is good for only 1 target, and the cast time isn't fast enough to react on a big fight. Hence the need to focus on single targets in support.

[Pimousse]

Confuse is still a Conjurer gameplay killer. It forces Conjurers to play in pairs which is unfair, since no other class is this heavily penalized. We cannot kill as supporters so we have to rely on others, and we also have to rely on others of our class to function reliably.
[/LIST]


What about allow conjurer to cast sanctuary under confuse ?
In rvr, di will stay usefull, since sanctuary remove all aura so conju have still to di eachothers.
And in small group with 1 conjurer, its maybe a start for solve this problem ?

[ieti]

Sanctuary is worst candidate ever. Slow cast, debuffs you and have small duration. 20s max will not save you in any way and you will die right after for sure.

I still think Dispell is better for this. It needs just to be added to be possible to dispell all dizzy spells from you, confuse including. Knock can be left it is really unrealistic to be possible to dispell from self.

Other more elegant solution is to give Mind Blank chance to resist Confuse, or make confuse chance spell with max 80% success on level 5. Lower duration will be nice too.

Another solution can be to make confuse for example 6m range spell, so caster needs to be really close to cast it. OP spell - hard to use i can say.

Anything... alone conjurer is just impossible to do his job properly. When i'm alone most of times i log right after or switch to my warlock. It is matter of seconds to get at least one confuse level 2-4 on you. Then you stay like onion and die helpless.

This is not fun.

[AntibioTsu]

Anything... alone conjurer is just impossible to do his job properly. When i'm alone most of times i log right after or switch to my warlock. It is matter of seconds to get at least one confuse level 2-4 on you. Then you stay like onion and die helpless.

This is not fun.

That is the problem... NGD is balancing the game for a RvR environment, where you arent the only conjurer in the group; In such perspective Confuse isnt OP because it can be prevented by DI or Dispeled by an ally, which sucks because it makes Conjurer the class most reliable on the performance of their allies (hoping to get DI or hoping to get Dispeled).

On a 1o1 situation, or lone conjurer situation Confuse will be OP, but NGD cant balance the game in such terms. It's quite of a dilema...

I honestly like the range 6 idea, so that it's only useable by hunters who can camo and approach, but the self-dispel idea is the one I prefer the most (Confuse should only cripple spells you cast on allies, same as Darkness cripples only spells cast on yourself; or instead, Insightful could be added a Time decrease on debuffs, +xx% Buff time -xx% Debuff time - +15% Buff -50% Debuff at lvl 5?

I'd just like to see Confuse "nerfed" so that it doesnt have such a great impact on Conjus, who can't perform their job at all once confuse hits them. It's the worst thing you can have on a game where there are only a few conjurers and the whole class is frustrating to play with expensive spells and lack of defense (knowing conju is the prime targeted class).

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Just simply remove Confuse. A hunter can win any fight with ease just by casting it (let me remind you that most hunters skill confuse to level 4), there's no effort needed.

In every hunter Vs hunter fight it's all about who casts confuse first, if you did it first then you have pretty much won the fight. There's no skill required.

[Mashu]

Funny, now after new "improvement" to Barbarians, all skill feint(5) and kick(5).
Dropping weapon discipline and War-cries discipline probably, since I don't see ppl using UM.

My conclusion is that, since UM is only 10s which is twice as long as fulminating, it was already reported that fulminating is too short and is enough for 1 hit only if the player does not move. This logically means that new "improved" UM lasts only for 2 hits.

So it cannot be cast beforehand. Then why the hell to waste time on casting UM, which because of global cooldown(GC) does not allow to cast another spell ?

Most ppl choose to skill kick(5) and feint(5) without UM, why to waste 300 mana for 10s and global cool-down instead of dealing damage or trying to interrupt by kick or feint !?

This renders this spell completely impractical, once due to the mana cost, second due to the fact that the duration is so short. You cannot cast it beforehand then you need to cast it just in combat, but in combat every hit counts either CC or damage, so losing those to cast another buff is quite waste for both mana and time.

I hope NGD will take that into account and decrease the mana cost and increase duration. I can't understand the reason for decreasing duration from 45s to 10s (4.5x less) and leaving mana cost 0.75 of what is was before. Again, does not matter how often I can cast the spell, still I need 1200 mana instead of 400 to get the same duration.
And the implications are that the spell became impractical because it has to be casted during combat when there is NO time to do that!! Global cool-down also counts.


BTW, Nice to see blog

[AntibioTsu]

Just simply remove Confuse. A hunter can win any fight with ease just by casting it (let me remind you that most hunters skill confuse to level 4), there's no effort needed.

In every hunter Vs hunter fight it's all about who casts confuse first, if you did it first then you have pretty much won the fight. There's no skill required.

THAT would rock, but maybe it's asking too much :p

Poor Hunters would lose one more role... you know, making Conju's daily life a nightmare :/

[Klutu]

Funny, now after new "improvement" to Barbarians, all skill feint(5) and kick(5).
Dropping weapon discipline and War-cries discipline probably, since I don't see ppl using UM.

lol - People not using UM is not a problem Ill still be using it - Still a Very useful spell that was turned into more of a situational spell instead of a long cooldown spell that left barbs very fragile while waiting for the CD

[Mashu]

lol - People not using UM is not a problem Ill still be using it - Still a Very useful spell that was turned into more of a situational spell instead of a long cooldown spell that left barbs very fragile while waiting for the CD

Klutu, did You test it? I see many people not using UM, because You need to cast it right in the battle, which triggers global-cooldown and blocks your spell.

During that time You can already do SC+Beast attack or Fulminating+Normal. Anyway what I was pointing out the most is that the duration is 4.5x less of what it was while Mana is 0.75 of what it was.

No it does not mean that barbs will fight more, it means that You will have to spend 800 mana more on Your buff every 10s or drop it, like others did.

You don't have to agree that the mana cost is much higher.

[Kaschka]

can't test my barb on amun... well i guess 10 seks are sort of useless, if its only for fortwars jumping out of the door i can use defensive stance ... much cheaper, not as effective..

please consider using merchant euqipment when testing ur barbarians.
actually on life server i allready don't have enough mana.after buffing im sort of oom.

[Kaixo]

NGD said that they like confuse as it is now, it is an interesting spell in RVR for them, so i doubt they will change it.
Conjurers can Divine intervenction each other to prevent that spell to be casted on another conjurer.
So my gameplay is reduced to dance in the save point until i see another support conjurer.
At least give me a new skill to use under the effect of confuse, something like:
"Dancing Queen":
The enemy dances with you.

[Barya]

its only for fortwars jumping out of the door

About of that also Hamster pointed - barbarian with 5-10sec buffs is just more addictive to fort doors, rocks, trees, bridges etc.

May be soon barbarian will get aqualung to engage in fights from water//
Or just hide there if enemy appearing :)

I pray for at least HARAKIRI spell (instant -100% HP, no RP to any enemy), i dont want to be RP meat//

[Mashu]

About of that also Hamster pointed - barbarian with 5-10sec buffs is just more addictive to fort doors, rocks, trees, bridges etc.

May be soon barbarian will get aqualung to engage in fights from water//
Or just hide there if enemy appearing :)

I pray for at least HARAKIRI spell (instant -100% HP, no RP to any enemy), i dont want to be RP meat//

Why would You like another HARAKIRI spell, there is no mana left for it anyway!

You better program Your Xserver to send key strokes "MANA PLZ!!" with one key that is the closes to your finger while pla... ohh sorry I forgot that You cannot send message while You're dead.

Maybe NGD has a plan, to add new premium item "Add custom text above the player head" so every barb can type in "MANA PLZ!!"
Another solution is to ask clan leader to have a special clan rank for Barbarians when a new updates kicks in "MANA PLZ!!"

[Pnarpa]

For all the people that complain.

We are getting closer. To follow soon after this: new blocking spells, a major mana revision and more tweaking.

[Malevolence]

When will u make this live? do u have a eta at all; cause numbers are infinite!

[doppelapfel]

Funny, now after new "improvement" to Barbarians, all skill feint(5) and kick(5).
Dropping weapon discipline and War-cries discipline probably, since I don't see ppl using UM.

My conclusion is that, since UM is only 10s which is twice as long as fulminating, it was already reported that fulminating is too short and is enough for 1 hit only if the player does not move. This logically means that new "improved" UM lasts only for 2 hits.

So it cannot be cast beforehand. Then why the hell to waste time on casting UM, which because of global cooldown(GC) does not allow to cast another spell ?

Most ppl choose to skill kick(5) and feint(5) without UM, why to waste 300 mana for 10s and global cool-down instead of dealing damage or trying to interrupt by kick or feint !?

This renders this spell completely impractical, once due to the mana cost, second due to the fact that the duration is so short. You cannot cast it beforehand then you need to cast it just in combat, but in combat every hit counts either CC or damage, so losing those to cast another buff is quite waste for both mana and time.

I hope NGD will take that into account and decrease the mana cost and increase duration. I can't understand the reason for decreasing duration from 45s to 10s (4.5x less) and leaving mana cost 0.75 of what is was before. Again, does not matter how often I can cast the spell, still I need 1200 mana instead of 400 to get the same duration.
And the implications are that the spell became impractical because it has to be casted during combat when there is NO time to do that!! Global cool-down also counts.


BTW, Nice to see blog

Im sure those ppl will use um again when they start seeing that they cant use their kick and feint 5 without. About the two hits while um: Bullshit! My barb does 3 hits while fulminanting with tfb 4 so you should be able to do 4-6 while um depending on weapon speed and as boni. But im happy that you finally got the point, um is not a long during skill in which you can kill someone anymore but a spell to get near the enemy without being ccd and then starting to use the tools a warrior can use if hes close.

[Mashu]

Anyway test yourself, barbarian should be able to use skills during the fight without being mana slave.

Now go on Amun and test it, just only essential spells that You need to cast to reach Your target and you're out of mana for anything like SC, Kick, Feint or whatever. Good luck.

[doppelapfel]

Anyway test yourself, barbarian should be able to use skills during the fight without being mana slave.

Now go on Amun and test it, just only essential spells that You need to cast to reach Your target and you're out of mana for anything like SC, Kick, Feint or whatever. Good luck.

Mana is another theme, you were talking about how useless um was in your whole post and that everybody would use tactic max now, i answered, and now youre point is that barbarians have not enough mana?

[Mashu]

Mana is another theme, you were talking about how useless um was in your whole post and that everybody would use tactic max now, i answered, and now youre point is that barbarians have not enough mana?

No doppelapfel, if You would read what You cited, then You would see that I stated many times, that the mana cost is too high, but thats not only for this spell imho.

[doppelapfel]

No doppelapfel, if You would read what You cited, then You would see that I stated many times, that the mana cost is too high, but thats not only for this spell imho.
So you think decreasing um's mana problem would solve problems and that its duration is too short? Thats how i understood your post.
Imo UM is fine now, mana costs are good compared to other barbspells and the duration/cd is now much better than before. That mana in general is a problem for all archers and warriors is not the point here and must be fixed in another way than just decreasing um's costs.

[Doggy-San]

So, finaly i found my way here in this forum (i am from an German Server)
Btw: thanks gawyn for posting that video :P

So, I realy enjoy the stages, I think it is realy great how you guys are working on it.

I know there are still annoying bugs. But the thing what ALL german players hates is the knocking effect.
On the german servers, close everyone is using the spells at skill level 3 or 4. Sry for my articulation but the guys are realy pissed off because of the 6 or 7 seconds doing nothing.
And now with the update without resisting/blocking/evading you would die too fast (at least at the german servers). So i would realy enjoy if you guys could change the duration of the knocking spells (exception for area effects):

Level 1: 1 or 2 seconds
Level 2: 2 or 3 seconds
Level 3: 3 or 4 seconds
Level 4: 4 or 5 seconds
Level 5: 5 or 6 seconds

I think the mana cost is ok



another thing (maybe for solving a armour-calculation problem) is that you could give the classes other armour points. I mean that every single class has other equipment points:
example:
Knight: 400 for each equipment
Barb: 300 for each equipment
Marksman: 250 - " -
Hunter: 200 - " -
Mages: 150 - " -

Maybe you should cut the dmg of the knights a little bit, if you do that.




My main char is knight
you cut the knight AO1 so i think he should get another spell , lets say..., level 1-5: 10% until 50% resistation against everything (except DOT-effects) but -10% until -50% damage. Duration: 15 (like AO1) CD 70 seconds (so you can't always make AO1 and then the other spell) mana: 300-400
I know it maybe sound egoism but i think, knight is at the front, for saving maybe barbs or other friends (supporting with spells) or fighting enemys. And anyhow he should defend hisshelf (i don't mean he should flee) he needs two spells like AO1 for protecting his friends, i know that you will change defensive stance a bit but this wouldn't be enough because knights are the front fighters not like Conj so they would need that spell too for supporting because of the 6m range (thats my opinion)

So this would be everything at the moment^^

Doggy

[HidraA]

What about allow conjurer to cast sanctuary under confuse ?
In rvr, di will stay usefull, since sanctuary remove all aura so conju have still to di eachothers.
And in small group with 1 conjurer, its maybe a start for solve this problem ?

Sanctuary remove any positive spells and sanct is only 11 sec ...confuse woowowo for lower mana cost...anyway this spell will remain like this...chilko told a few weeks a go in one post they will not nerf confuse because they think is very interesting spell....

[Kaixo]

So you think decreasing um's mana problem would solve problems and that its duration is too short? Thats how i understood your post.
Imo UM is fine now, mana costs are good compared to other barbspells and the duration/cd is now much better than before. That mana in general is a problem for all archers and warriors is not the point here and must be fixed in another way than just decreasing um's costs.
He says that mana is a problem AND UM is virtually useless.
you hit 3 hits with fulminating and TFB 4?
Berserk:240
TFB:200
Fulminating: 240
Spring: 150
UM:300
That alone results in 170 mana left for my barbarian without using any defense, any skill different than a buff, etc.

I cast UM and in 10sec I can't do anything special, a low profile from an archer and later I'm as vulnerable as without skilling UM but with 300 mana less.

[doppelapfel]

So, finaly i found my way here in this forum (i am from an German Server)
Btw: thanks gawyn for posting that video :P

So, I realy enjoy the stages, I think it is realy great how you guys are working on it.

I know there are still annoying bugs. But the thing what ALL german players hates is the knocking effect.
On the german servers, close everyone is using the spells at skill level 3 or 4. Sry for my articulation but the guys are realy pissed off because of the 6 or 7 seconds doing nothing.
And now with the update without resisting/blocking/evading you would die too fast (at least at the german servers). So i would realy enjoy if you guys could change the duration of the knocking spells (exception for area effects):

Level 1: 1 or 2 seconds
Level 2: 2 or 3 seconds
Level 3: 3 or 4 seconds
Level 4: 4 or 5 seconds
Level 5: 5 or 6 seconds

I think the mana cost is ok

I agree that knocks are too strong but i would prefer:
No stacking
Higher mana cost (kick and ambush fe are insane cheap)
longer CD (cous knock is far the best effect)

I know that warriors have to depend much on them to stay in range for attacking, maybe balestra and ribs breaker either piggybacking or give them weapon dmg back (maybe 20/40/60/80/100 from lvl 1-5?) so barbs could use them without losing a lot dmg.

another thing (maybe for solving a armour-calculation problem) is that you could give the classes other armour points. I mean that every single class has other equipment points:
example:
Knight: 400 for each equipment
Barb: 300 for each equipment
Marksman: 250 - " -
Hunter: 200 - " -
Mages: 150 - " -

Maybe you should cut the dmg of the knights a little bit, if you do that.

They did sth like that, read chillkos posts.


My main char is knight
you cut the knight AO1 so i think he should get another spell , lets say..., level 1-5: 10% until 50% resistation against everything (except DOT-effects) but -10% until -50% damage. Duration: 15 (like AO1) CD 70 seconds (so you can't always make AO1 and then the other spell) mana: 300-400
I know it maybe sound egoism but i think, knight is at the front, for saving maybe barbs or other friends (supporting with spells) or fighting enemys. And anyhow he should defend hisshelf (i don't mean he should flee) he needs two spells like AO1 for protecting his friends, i know that you will change defensive stance a bit but this wouldn't be enough because knights are the front fighters not like Conj so they would need that spell too for supporting because of the 6m range (thats my opinion)

So this would be everything at the moment^^

Doggy

A second ao1 with longer cd and -dmg? Hm no. With the new defensive Stance knights have a great ability to tank (it doesnt even cost mana!), the only ones doing real dmg on them are barbs and this is fine in my eyes, making them more important. If knights get another tankspell it should be sth new, not the same as ao1 again.

[doppelapfel]

He says that mana is a problem AND UM is virtually useless.
you hit 3 hits with fulminating and TFB 4?
Berserk:240
TFB:200
Fulminating: 240
Spring: 150
UM:300
That alone results in 170 mana left for my barbarian without using any defense, any skill different than a buff, etc.

I cast UM and in 10sec I can't do anything special, a low profile from an archer and later I'm as vulnerable as without skilling UM but with 300 mana less.
He said that UM's mana is a problem, as i got it he was not talking about mana in general which is a problem which will not be solved by just lowering ums mana. Lets say um would have only 50 mana at 5, you would still have to less mana, so this change wouldnt help much, we need a change in the system (faster regeneration).
10 seconds can be a very long time for the enemy if he cant stop you in anyother way than slowing down (can be countered by di, onsl and spring). Again: UM is for reaching the enemy, not for being immune to ccs for a very long time.
About LP: Well, be happy if the marks loses ra, acrobatic, maneuver or whatever he was using. With spring you can easy stay right near him and kick him down or whatever when lp is off.

[LeFaye]

Hi, I am also from the German server, such as Doggy, I will write here mostly something to the hunter. The dmg of the hunter has pretty much already in advance. With good tactics, etc. .. He was well playable. But what precisely is to Amun goes like this at all. The damage has now been reduced again, you need to killn forever to blue mobs. What also did not go as I think the pets disappear by camouflage. What are you doing?? You need to killn yes then try from the Tarn is no longer barbarians that do not be so. Furthermore, the speed .... I need 10 skill points is then passive and agility to get to 15% overall speed, so worth not at all. The barbarians meanwhile, run through the area .... and get all hunters a loose. This is out my thoughts about the upcoming update. I will play my hunter then probably no more and I think because there are still some others who then do that any more :nunchaku:

Camma