Warlocks and Cast Speed

[Surfy]

Okay, so I tried avoiding this thread but I failed to come to a conclusion on my own.

So, I timed my Warlock on how long it would take her to cast her 4 main offensive Spells using my normal Cast Speed gear which is 7% on Gloves and 13% on Staff. That's a total of 20% Cast Speed. This took me 10 seconds.

The second test was with shop bought items (No bonuses etc) and casted the same 4 Spells. This took me around 10.5 seconds. So the only thing I could conclude was that 20% Cast Speed gear would give you an advantage of around 0.5 seconds, if not any bonuses at all (Easily could of misscalculated 10 seconds from 10.5 seconds).

My question is: Does Cast Speed on gear really matter anymore or is this some sort of bug?

Thanks guys
Surfacing

[Anpu]

Okay, so I tried avoiding this thread but I failed to come to a conclusion on my own.

So, I timed my Warlock on how long it would take her to cast her 4 main offensive Spells using my normal Cast Speed gear which is 7% on Gloves and 13% on Staff. That's a total of 20% Cast Speed. This took me 10 seconds.

The second test was with shop bought items (No bonuses etc) and casted the same 4 Spells. This took me around 10.5 seconds. So the only thing I could conclude was that 20% Cast Speed gear would give you an advantage of around 0.5 seconds, if not any bonuses at all (Easily could of misscalculated 10 seconds from 10.5 seconds).

My question is: Does Cast Speed on gear really matter anymore or is this some sort of bug?

Thanks guys
Surfacing
Xia made while ago CS calculator, to compare 1.6.2 and 1.6.3 casting time. It might help you to find answer.
http://www.claninquisition.org/index.php?page=74

[HuntShot]

Xia made while ago CS calculator, to compare 1.6.2 and 1.6.3 casting time. It might help you to find answer.
http://www.claninquisition.org/index.php?page=74

How weird....

I tried testing this by just adjusting it to 5% Weapon CS,
and weird enough it says this:


Cast Time Chart - 1.6.2
Cast Time Arcane Devotion Level
Base 0 1 2 3 4 5
0.5 0.47 0.42 0.38 0.33 0.28 0.22
1.0 0.95 0.85 0.75 0.65 0.55 0.45
1.5 1.42 1.27 1.12 0.98 0.83 0.67
2.0 1.90 1.70 1.50 1.30 1.10 0.90
2.5 2.38 2.12 1.88 1.62 1.38 1.12
3.0 2.85 2.55 2.25 1.95 1.65 1.35
4.0 3.80 3.40 3.00 2.60 2.20 1.80
6.0 5.70 5.10 4.50 3.90 3.30 2.70

And The New Patch:
Cast Time Chart - 1.6.3
Cast Time Arcane Devotion Level
Base 0 1 2 3 4 5
0.5 0.48 0.42 0.37 0.33 0.29 0.24
1.0 0.95 0.83 0.74 0.67 0.59 0.49
1.5 1.43 1.25 1.11 1.00 0.88 0.73
2.0 1.90 1.67 1.48 1.33 1.18 0.98
2.5 2.38 2.08 1.85 1.67 1.47 1.22
3.0 2.86 2.50 2.22 2.00 1.76 1.46
4.0 3.81 3.33 2.96 2.67 2.35 1.95
6.0 5.71 5.00 4.44 4.00 3.53 2.93

Notice how sometimes the old patch has less seconds CS
and sometime(almost never) the new patch has less seconds CS
shouldnt it all be the same? like 1.6.3 is always less or more CS then 1.6.2??

Maybe Im totally wrong can someone explain this to me?

[ncvr]

Cast speed scaling is very complex. That's about the simplest explanation I can give.

[Miraculix]

It's a logarithmic function.

[Minorian]

I can feel a difference with my conj without 7% cs, and with it. Dunno whats with yours.

[NotScias]

My question is: Does Cast Speed on gear really matter anymore or is this some sort of bug?

It still does matter, but less than before.
And also, more you get Cast Speed, less effective it is.

[HuntShot]

It still does matter, but less than before.
And also, more you get Cast Speed, less effective it is.

How lame is that.... I mean come on why nerf CS there was nothing wrong with it :/

[Minorian]

How lame is that.... I mean come on why nerf CS there was nothing wrong with it :/

O.O I guess there was something about warlcoks casting the spell that decided all wars, with a cast time of under 1 sec.

[Mattdoesrock]

How lame is that.... I mean come on why nerf CS there was nothing wrong with it :/

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1244/facepalmjo.jpg

[sobis]

How lame is that.... I mean come on why nerf CS there was nothing wrong with it :/

http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/6538/original/fistpalm.jpg

[Minorian]

How lame is that.... I mean come on why nerf CS there was nothing wrong with it :/

http://img180.imageshack.us/i/facepaw.jpg/

[doppelapfel]

The old cast"speed" reduced the casting time by %, fe devotion 5, 50% cs -> half casttime. Now its real castspeed, this means you have to use the formula for speed:
v=s/t
or better:
t=s/v

t=time it takes you to cast the spell
s="way" (the castingtime without any boni)
v=speed, 1+xx%

If you cast ST with your 20% cs gear it takes you:
t=s/v
t=3/1,2
t=2,5s
So 0,5 seconds or 1/6=16% less then without gear.
With devotion 5 your boni give you a lot less:
Only with devotion 5: 1,5s
With devotion and gear: 1,3636...
~5% less casttime compared to casting with devotion only.

I like the change, its a nerf for me but it was needed. Now NGD has to make the other classes less effected by gear...

[Minorian]

I like the change, its a nerf for me but it was needed. Now NGD has to make the other classes less effected by gear...

Didnt they? AS suffered the same nerf, and from what I hear dmg bonus only affects your damage for half its actual written value.

[HuntShot]

O.O I guess there was something about warlcoks casting the spell that decided all wars, with a cast time of under 1 sec.

yeah but It got nerfed didnt it?
so what sence does it make, we are mages we need to cast fast or we'll die.

[Minorian]

yeah but It got nerfed didnt it?
so what sence does it make, we are mages we need to cast fast or we'll die.

Yes it got nerfed. No it does not make sense, Youre summoning meteors and calling down lightning and forcing 40 people to the ground, it should take you time.

[Gabburtjuh]

beat you matt xD

[doppelapfel]

Didnt they? AS suffered the same nerf, and from what I hear dmg bonus only affects your damage for half its actual written value.
Anyway, uber geared marks still do nearly twice the dmg a marks with normal equipment can do. I got 600 norms and 800 crits from a marks only using ra and maneuver some minutes ago. He just stood there shoting at me, i was
dead before i got near enough to attack. -.-

[HidraA]

Anyway, uber geared marks still do nearly twice the dmg a marks with normal equipment can do. I got 600 norms and 800 crits from a marks only using ra and maneuver some minutes ago. He just stood there shoting at me, i was
dead before i got near enough to attack. -.-

Marks has not been chaged.Is some old boring marx what shoot from new york to paris and nothing more.There was only general changes for archer class.Now dex is more effective like before.

An about cast speed has been nerfred because of bypassing GCD and warlocks was able to kill almoust everyone very fast before can be touched.

[Monthser]

...cast speed has been nerfred because of bypassing GCD and warlocks was able to kill almoust everyone very fast before can be touched.

Yes, you are right about that cheating with the GCD but that was being done bij a handfull of warlocks -allways the same ones, who everybody knew- and yes those ppl were able to kill everyone very fast in no time. But the majority of warlocks didnt cheat and do not have the ubergear those have. So the majority of good faith warlocks have being punished for those abusers.
So there I am with my staff hitting ppl with 50 damage lol. Sultar is a joke now, Soul keeper the same. So whats the role of the warlock now? He is now some kind of warjurer. The normal warlock does not have the range of the mark nor the high damage of the warrior not to speak of his low defense armour. In my opinion the WARLORD should be one to be feared and he is not anymore.
I know that balancing mages is a difficult task for NGD and I hope they find a solution to this problem. In the meantime -me as a normal warlock player without ubergear- I am not playing with my lock anymore.

[ncvr]

Warlocks actually do have the dmg of a warrior. Slightly less than barbs, but more than knights by quite a lot. Lightning regularly ticks for 200+, Ice blast around 100, and there's no way to reduce that dmg other than acrobatics/AoO or the knight aura that reduces magic dmg (which no one uses). Armour doesn't work because of the caution nerf and DoTs are only affected by 1/5 of your armour (so if you have 100 dmg mitigation from armour, you only mitigate 20 against DoTs). But you have so much more than that - you have much better CC options than anyone else in the game, plus you can drain someone's mana pretty well with mana burn + SS. On top of that, warlocks get less out of better gear than any other class with the cast speed scaling "nerf".

[Monthser]

Warlocks actually do have the dmg of a warrior. Slightly less than barbs.....

What???? LOL... you must be joking really, this is outrageous. NORMAL warlocks (read well the capital letters please) cannot kill an enemy with 1 or 2slashes like a barbarian does. We need at least 4 or 5 spells (now more with the nerfings) to kill a warrior FROM A DISTANCE. Besides our poor defense armour we (mages) have the lowest speed from all. While a marks can kill us from big distance if a warrior comes close to me (or other NORMAL mages) I am for sure dead meat and thats the truth.

[ncvr]

Wow, 4 or 5. I admit barb dmg is overpowered, but still, being able to kill in 4 or 5 GCDs is ridiculous as well. You've merely proved my point. Also, barbs still aren't yet to the point where anything they stare at will die in the next 5 seconds. They need to get to their enemy, then they need to knock their enemy to ensure no evades and the enemy can't get away. Right now, most barb setups are like guided missiles: if they get to their target, they will destroy or severely damage it, but the hard part is getting to it, and every ranged class has plenty of tools to keep barbs at range.

NORMAL warlocks (read well the capital letters please) cannot kill an enemy with 1 or 2slashes like a barbarian does.
Neither can overgeared ones. Like I said before, gear does much less for a warlock now.

[Monthser]

Wow, 4 or 5. I admit barb dmg is overpowered, but still, being able to kill in 4 or 5 GCDs is ridiculous as well. You've merely proved my point. Also, barbs still aren't yet to the point where anything they stare at will die in the next 5 seconds. They need to get to their enemy, then they need to knock their enemy to ensure no evades and the enemy can't get away. Right now, most barb setups are like guided missiles: if they get to their target, they will destroy or severely damage it, but the hard part is getting to it, and every ranged class has plenty of tools to keep barbs at range.
Neither can overgeared ones. Like I said before, gear does much less for a warlock now.

I think you dont understand at all what I am saying. You dont get that the majority of the NORMAL players do not have the superior experience (+ubergear) of the oldies....
All I am trying to say is that the warlock has not an important role anymore in combat. The most important tool we had was Sultar and this is useless now. We do not have the range of the marks nor the high damage of the barbarian or the high defense of the knight. Understand this well the warriors and the marks are now as they should be, but the role of the warlock is not clear now. Warlocks are now reduced to some sort of warjurer. And as I said I know this mage balance (warlocks AND conjurers) is a difficult task for NGD but I am confident that they will find a solution otherwise there will be less and less mages in the wz.....

[ncvr]

You dont get that the majority of the NORMAL players do not have the superior experience (+ubergear) of the oldies....
So what you're saying is, less experienced players aren't able to perform as well as more experienced players? While warlocks are an easy to learn, hard to master class, they are still effective whether or not the player playing the class has played for 3 years and knows the details of every single spell.

All I am trying to say is that the warlock has not an important role anymore in combat. The most important tool we had was Sultar and this is useless now. We do not have the range of the marks nor the high damage of the barbarian or the high defense of the knight. Understand this well the warriors and the marks are now as they should be, but the role of the warlock is not clear now. Warlocks are now reduced to some sort of warjurer.
Admittedly, CC is now a stronger point of warlocks and probably the main reason they are feared. However, warlocks did not lose any damage-dealing capabilities at all - if anything, their dmg is stronger than ever with the new DoTs. Sultar was not the only, or even the main reason warlocks were a unique and strong class. If the whole class was based on a single 3 minute cooldown spell which could be resisted, it wouldn't be very powerful, would it? Yet even before this update, warlocks were near the top. Warjurers still cannot match your dmg output or even your CC capabilites. Don't forget you still have MoD as well.

[HidraA]

Right now, most barb setups are like guided missiles: if they get to their target, they will destroy or severely damage it, but the hard part is getting to it, and every ranged class has plenty of tools to keep barbs at range.


Even i dont like you, you are right.
Hard part is to rich oponent ,If you rich him almoust all time is dead.
I got killed those days many times by locks because of meteor,twister,lightning ,firebal,crystal blast etc.
Warlock just changed way to kill but still is damn good to kill.
Anywy this game became Knockum Online.:All use now kick/feith 4/5(barbs and knights),ambush 4,5,wild domain 4/5,range of earth,etc etc..all knocks all like crazy.
Was funny in fisrt days but now look boring because your first speel what try to doo is knock.

[UmarilsStillHere]

In the current system I suspect knock time nerfs will be next, the duration that most class's can keep another inactive is just too long.

[Minorian]

. Besides our poor defense armour we (mages) have the lowest speed from all.

You dont even know that knights are the slowest class now(have no range cc's, intimidate is shit because of low range) what else don't you know? I dont think someone with holes in their game knowledge should discuss balance.

[Evangeline]

Yes, you are right about that cheating with the GCD but that was being done bij a handfull of warlocks -allways the same ones, who everybody knew- and yes those ppl were able to kill everyone very fast in no time. But the majority of warlocks didnt cheat and do not have the ubergear those have. So the majority of good faith warlocks have being punished for those abusers.
So there I am with my staff hitting ppl with 50 damage lol. Sultar is a joke now, Soul keeper the same. So whats the role of the warlock now? He is now some kind of warjurer. The normal warlock does not have the range of the mark nor the high damage of the warrior not to speak of his low defense armour. In my opinion the WARLORD should be one to be feared and he is not anymore.
I know that balancing mages is a difficult task for NGD and I hope they find a solution to this problem. In the meantime -me as a normal warlock player without ubergear- I am not playing with my lock anymore.

warlord? u mean warlock* its 2 different things :superpusso: warlock is a sorcerer a witchman a warlord is sumething completely different :>

[Gabburtjuh]

ill make this a short reply, lvl 11-15 mental, lvl 15-19 elemental, lvl 15-19 arcania, lvl 15 mana control, meteor-lightning-ivy-ice blast-stalagmite-will domain and if not dead just repeat it with some other skills, maybe beetle or something, if you cant get a setup with 11-15-15-15 your to low to have a opinion on balance.

[Inkster]

You dont even know that knights are the slowest class now

Your joking right?

Ive found playing my knight after a period of rest the easiest it has been

[Minorian]

Your joking right?

Ive found playing my knight after a period of rest the easiest it has been

Lowest run speed.....If you read my whole post and the post you quoted you would easily see that run speed was the topic. Due to no speed increase, and a lack of 25m range cc's, they are the slowest.

[Inkster]

Lowest run speed.....If you read my whole post and the post you quoted you would easily see that run speed was the topic. Due to no speed increase, and a lack of 25m range cc's, they are the slowest.

If you care to look at the knights spell tree you will find a skill called onslaught, even at lvl 1 you get 10% mobility speed for 14 seconds, your argument is invalid

Mages have no such spell ergo they are the slowest class with the added advantage of now having the slowest mana regen in the game.

As i have already said, knowing where to put your points is the key :)

[Mattdoesrock]

If you care to look at the knights spell tree you will find a skill called onslaught, even at lvl 1 you get 10% mobility speed for 14 seconds, your argument is invalid

Mages have no such spell ergo they are the slowest class with the added advantage of now having the slowest mana regen in the game.

As i have already said, knowing where to put your points is the key :)

Onslaught doesn't affect the caster anymore... :facepalm3:

[Inkster]

onslaught doesn't affect the caster anymore... :facepalm3:


........ Doh!

[Mikan]

........ Doh!
You silly old goat. :p

[Inkster]

You silly old goat. :p

old been the operative word xD

[Minorian]

If you care to look at the knights spell tree you will find a skill called onslaught, even at lvl 1 you get 10% mobility speed for 14 seconds, your argument is invalid



If you care to actually play you will see that it doesnt effect self, therefore your argument is invalid :p

Dont rip on people when you dont know your facts :beerchug:

[Inkster]

If you care to actually play you will see that it doesnt effect self, therefore your argument is invalid :p

Dont rip on people when you dont know your facts :beerchug:

Read or 3 posts up before so you repeat what has been said, and please dont
get your facts wrong about the frequency of my time in game :)

[Catelyn]

Before update, we had many spells we could cast fast, and chain crowd control spells easily.
Well, it's not that easy. I mean we needed to time it right anyway. As someone said here, it's easy to learn but difficult to master.
We used to say, when 2 warlocks fight, it's the one's who cast meteor first that wins. But only a few could give you no chance of responding, being under cc effect all the time. That's was one of the things I like most about this class, total control of situation, but it was hard to get. When fighting surfacing, hepha, tsuko, or rhanya the result was death in a few moments. But most warlocks didn't master their class.

But this could be applied to all classes, except knight. It was difficult to fight glulose, enio, gondu, scias, jesus, rulez,immune and many more. Eventhough we had advantage over others (sultar free out of death card)

Now, warlocks can still own in a one on one fight, but gcd is a pain in some situations. Fights take longer, so we need to time our spells precisely, but even while doing so, we can't cast much damage spells between cc.
Will domain is 6 sec on lvl 3 for example. with 2sec gcd, so 4 sec remaining to cast spells. one dmg spell+ gcd for 2 secs, that means 2 dmg spells before the knock down effect is gone. That if u didn't move to get away from a warrior, or cast some debuff (darkness) to avoid sotw for example.
Im sorry, but the chain spells someone mentionned doesn't work, unless the enemy stand waving at you.

Gcd was a good idea, but gcd+nerf of cast speed was too much. Many are happy with the way it goes, but eventhough they can be difficult to defeat in one on one fights, in big groups, I feel kinda useless, dots are less effective, we can't hit dmg fast enough, mana drain spells are not feared anymor and we are hit by archers before we can even be in range.

[Mikan]

dots are less effective
I stopped reading here.

Damage over time (DOT) spells currently rule Regnum, and it's not uncommon to take 1000-1500 damage from a single DOT spell, let alone when a Warlock stacks 2-3 on you at once (and they have alot more than that). You may not like playing this way, but it is far from "less effective", you could probably kill anyone with three DOTs alone at the moment.

I'm sorry, but before the update Warlocks with cast speed gear were nearly impossible to beat without a group. I regularly watched a single Warlock kill 4-5 people just by casting Sultar, then chaining damage and CC spells on each of them, maybe with some staff mastery thrown in (Fuerst, etc). Now they are more balanced, but still a bit over the top.

The thing is, everyone is going to whine that their class is useless now, even though none of them are. Hunters can still kick ass, most just refuse to learn the new ways and sit and whine about how they lost all their damage. Marksmen have literally become gods of a battlefield now, but you still see them whining occasionally. Barbarians have damage unlike ever before (in comparison to others), yet they still whine that they can't live long enough. It's the circle of life in this game.

You just have to adjust and accept that maybe the balance update has made facing your class more fair to others. This game isn't about winning, it's about maybe winning if you play really good and the other guy doesn't, or more often, just getting lucky from all the randomness. If you find yourself winning more often than not, something is clearly wrong. You should lose at least half of your fights even if you are a skilled player, because ultimately you will come up against other skilled players too.

Kind regards.

[Catelyn]

in big groups, I feel kinda useless, dots are less effective, we can't hit dmg fast enough, mana drain spells are not feared anymor and we are hit by archers before we can even be in range.

You should have read all the sentence :)
In a pvp or a 2 vs 2 fights, dots can be deadly, but while taking or defending a fort, it's not the case. Knights have spells to protect their allies, conj usually use dispell ( it's easy to get now), archers reduce a lot of dot, and they have retal to avoid it, and you can simply run back or hide in fort.
One or 2 dot spells won't kill anyone, and I don't have time to cast those actually, since update many plays their archers ( and I do too), it's hard to come near a fort or to stay on wall when you are being targeted a lot (easier to target mages ).

Before update, most locks couldn't kill Enio and some other good marks, had no chance vs hunters with camo and confuse, glulose knew how to kill a warlock, warju like gondu were op and scias had silence 5 and summon sometimes, only knights were left out.
So you could kill a lock without a group, even if they had advantage, sorry.

I don't really agree with you, some players are too skilled or have great items, and I can't compete. And those players don't often loose in pvp.

But you don't understand,I'm not complaining about it, it's just a fact. It's just frustrating to play a lock in fort wars now, too much range for mages. There is still some things to fix for balance, but it doesn't really matter for me, I have 4 different classes to play and I enjoy it anyway.

[Warthog]

You should have read all the sentence :)
In a pvp or a 2 vs 2 fights, dots can be deadly, but while taking or defending a fort, it's not the case. Knights have spells to protect their allies, conj usually use dispell ( it's easy to get now), archers reduce a lot of dot, and they have retal to avoid it, and you can simply run back or hide in fort.
One or 2 dot spells won't kill anyone, and I don't have time to cast those actually, since update many plays their archers ( and I do too), it's hard to come near a fort or to stay on wall when you are being targeted a lot (easier to target mages ).

Before update, most locks couldn't kill Enio and some other good marks, had no chance vs hunters with camo and confuse, glulose knew how to kill a warlock, warju like gondu were op and scias had silence 5 and summon sometimes, only knights were left out.
So you could kill a lock without a group, even if they had advantage, sorry.

I don't really agree with you, some players are too skilled or have great items, and I can't compete. And those players don't often loose in pvp.

But you don't understand,I'm not complaining about it, it's just a fact. It's just frustrating to play a lock in fort wars now, too much range for mages. There is still some things to fix for balance, but it doesn't really matter for me, I have 4 different classes to play and I enjoy it anyway.

I am pretty much confused at your argument here why Locks are too frystrating to play in fort wars. Half of what you say makes them ineffective vs others (ie knights protection, dispell) only works for those who you are attacking? You also don't have his advantage from your allies? A knight aura to get you close enough to range to cast? A dispell to get rid of BoW? Even wind wall to reduce archer damage while trying to get in ranged for what little it does..

[doppelapfel]

Before update, we had many spells we could cast fast, and chain crowd control spells easily.
Well, it's not that easy. I mean we needed to time it right anyway. As someone said here, it's easy to learn but difficult to master.
We used to say, when 2 warlocks fight, it's the one's who cast meteor first that wins. But only a few could give you no chance of responding, being under cc effect all the time. That's was one of the things I like most about this class, total control of situation, but it was hard to get. When fighting surfacing, hepha, tsuko, or rhanya the result was death in a few moments. But most warlocks didn't master their class.

But this could be applied to all classes, except knight. It was difficult to fight glulose, enio, gondu, scias, jesus, rulez,immune and many more. Eventhough we had advantage over others (sultar free out of death card)

Now, warlocks can still own in a one on one fight, but gcd is a pain in some situations. Fights take longer, so we need to time our spells precisely, but even while doing so, we can't cast much damage spells between cc.
Will domain is 6 sec on lvl 3 for example. with 2sec gcd, so 4 sec remaining to cast spells. one dmg spell+ gcd for 2 secs, that means 2 dmg spells before the knock down effect is gone. That if u didn't move to get away from a warrior, or cast some debuff (darkness) to avoid sotw for example.
Im sorry, but the chain spells someone mentionned doesn't work, unless the enemy stand waving at you.

Gcd was a good idea, but gcd+nerf of cast speed was too much. Many are happy with the way it goes, but eventhough they can be difficult to defeat in one on one fights, in big groups, I feel kinda useless, dots are less effective, we can't hit dmg fast enough, mana drain spells are not feared anymor and we are hit by archers before we can even be in range.
Good geared ignis locks needed exactly half of the time a lock without cs items needed to cast his spells, dont tell me this was balanced, it was like the marksmen doing twice the dmg of others because they have a dragonamu, great bow and bossrings.
Im having a lot fun playing my lock, i can still beat everyone in pvp beside some of the best barbarians and skilled marks with ubergear (fortunately on niflheim marks only have one - skill or equipment lol). In rvr my lock is also more fun than my other chars, i can deal a great dmg, cc many enemies at the same time or help my allies with dispel.
There is no need to recreate the imbalance by cs gear, its fine as it is, most other classes still need changes but locks are mostly fine.

[Inkster]

dots are less effective,

what was a good post was ruined by this statement, Dots are more effective now than ever

[VandaMan]

Good geared ignis locks needed exactly half of the time a lock without cs items needed to cast his spells

Why would a lock play without CS items? Even more importantly, how does a "good geared" ignis lock have more CS than any other lock with good gear? Light Tunic != Good Gear.

i can still beat everyone in pvp beside some of the best barbarians and skilled marks with ubergear (fortunately on niflheim marks only have one - skill or equipment lol). In rvr my lock is also more fun than my other chars, i can deal a great dmg, cc many enemies at the same time or help my allies with dispel.

You must be PvPing some pretty terrible players. A marks that can't kill you during 26 seconds (I think?) of burst of wind and son of the wind just fails, and that's without even considering his other ways of disabling you (winter stroke, ambush, distracting shot, stunning fist). It's understandable that you can beat most barbs, but only if you've skilled for PvP against them (Slow 5 or something stupid) instead of a setup that is more general.

In RvR lock can still be fun, but when the enemy has several marksman you will never get close enough to cast a spell without simply zerging the enemy. There's no half-way point, either you can do nothing or you overrun them with numbers.

what was a good post was ruined by this statement, Dots are more effective now than ever

DoTs are certainly more effective, but I think the point was that in an RvR situation they're often retaliated by archers (which I believe is a bug) or are dispelled by knights and conjus. Dispel is very easy to get in a conj setup now, due to the move of mana communion to the mana control tree.

[Inkster]

If the lock casts darkness on the target before the dot spell, it makes life difficult for them

[VandaMan]

If the lock casts darkness on the target before the dot spell, it makes life difficult for them

I don't know anyone dumb enough to stand there and let me load them up with DoTs (which are generally only 25 range) after I've darknessed them. With slower cast times, and longer global cooldowns, it's very difficult to darkness someone and still get off your DoTs.

[Inkster]

ivy + darkness + dots

[VandaMan]

at the risk of derailing this thread... how often do you get close enough and have the time to cast ivy, followed by darkness, followed by 3 DoTs without getting knocked, dizzied, frozen, stunned, or just plain killed? That only happens when you're already zerging your enemies anyway... I feel like I said that before

There's no half-way point, either you can do nothing or you overrun them with numbers..

Yup...

[Inkster]

pretty often, as it happens, i normally play with no more than 3 people and only recently we took out 15 lvl 45-50's in a single fight around 3 times

[VandaMan]

pretty often, as it happens, i normally play with no more than 3 people and only recently we took out 15 lvl 45-50's in a single fight around 3 times

That is complete and utter bullshit. Now you're just arguing for arguments sake, and making things up. You wouldn't win 3 vs 15 if they were level 35's, let alone level 50's that can kill you in the duration of 1 knock down.

[Inkster]

No need to swear and it is totally true, the party consisted of myself, twinkle, Lucinda wintersun, Lubaya and Hitman

[Catelyn]

Thanks vandaMan, at least someone points out what I was trying to say (maybe not clearly enough).

I feel Im not useful when playing lock for that reason, Im just waiting for everyone to charge. Try stepping forward and you will get hit with multiple ethereal+arcane, which not many spells can protect you from. Most of the time, it's just standing doing nothing.

Now for the pvp part, yes locks are very effective against warriors when you have slow 3+ and mind push.
Hunters with confuse are tricky though. And marks are deadly.

For the simple chain example, with ivy 5 you have time to cast darkness + 2 dot spells with very short gcd, and then you need a cc again. Unless you stack ivy with twister, or frozen storm but it's dumb to use darkness and to freeze after. But if you do ivy+twister, you need a dizzy spell in between.
Besides Ivy is not that good as a first spell, you need to make sure they are dizzed first, or archers will cast sotw or low profile, knights have ao1 or precise block if it works with ivy, locks will cast silence or meteor or beetle or whatever.

Was your fight in open field?

[VandaMan]

[...]no more than 3 people and only recently we[...]

the party consisted of myself, twinkle, Lucinda wintersun, Lubaya and Hitman

You need to work on your counting skills. That's slightly more believable, but it would still have to be in extraordinary circumstances, and will likely never happen again. You can't consider cases like that when you're talking about a class in general, or balance.

In any case, epic stories of your exploits do not mean anything to me. Getting a warlock to range 20, and casting 5+ spells without being interrupted is terribly difficult, to the point of being nearly impossible without outnumbering your enemy. If you can't agree with that, then you either have very good conjurers paying special attention to you, you don't play a warlock, or you never play when outnumbered.

[Twinkle1]

That is complete and utter bullshit. Now you're just arguing for arguments sake, and making things up. You wouldn't win 3 vs 15 if they were level 35's, let alone level 50's that can kill you in the duration of 1 knock down.


ROFPMSL dude it happens all the time, no bull shyt its true.

[Inkster]

pretty often, as it happens, i normally play with no more than 3 people and only recently we took out 15 lvl 45-50's in a single fight around 3 times


Note the word normally you conveniently left out when you quoted me, i cant be bothered to argue with you as you are now just trolling for the sake of it

oh btw my main char is a warlock and although we had a conjur, i was not given any special treatment

EDIT:

Also, red karma shouldn't be used just because someone disagrees with you, and disagreeing with you is not the same as trolling you. Fortunately I think most forum users recognize that "you're a troll, I'm not going to bother with you" is used as a cheap cop-out for the losing side of an argument just as often as it is the truth. Enjoy not feeding the troll, and have a nice day.

I didn't give you red K until just now, so obviously someone else did not like your post or comment etc. Just so you know you had your facts wrong, when i give K either good or bad i always sign it, unlike your good self

[VandaMan]

Note the word normally you conveniently left out when you quoted me, i cant be bothered to argue with you as you are now just trolling for the sake of it

pretty often, as it happens, i normally play with no more than 3 people and only recently we took out 15 lvl 45-50's in a single fight around 3 times

Perhaps English isn't your first language, and I can forgive you for that, but you specified a group of people and continued that sentence by saying "and we." In the English language this refers to the group of "no more than 3" that you had just mentioned.

Also, red karma shouldn't be used just because someone disagrees with you, and disagreeing with you is not the same as trolling you. Fortunately I think most forum users recognize that "you're a troll, I'm not going to bother with you" is used as a cheap cop-out for the losing side of an argument just as often as it is the truth. Enjoy not feeding the troll, and have a nice day.

[Mikan]

Arguing with two of the oldest and most experienced Warlocks in the game is a bit of a lost cause, Van. :p

[VandaMan]

Arguing with two of the oldest and most experienced Warlocks in the game is a bit of a lost cause, Van. :p

Why? Having played for nearly 2 years I think I'm just as qualified to talk about warlocks as they are, especially considering that warlocks are a completely different class now than they were 2 years ago. Being old and experienced doesn't make you right, and relying on that reputation to validate your points only makes an argument look weak, in my opinion.

Edit: Who is the second old experienced warlock I'm arguing with, btw? I thought it was just inkster?

[doppelapfel]

Why would a lock play without CS items?
Why do marks play without dragonamu, evebow and 2 rha rings? Because not everyone has them. :facepalm3: Again: A lock that was not able to get cs items needed twice the time a lock with good gear needed to cast a spell (in case both used lvl 5 devotion).

Even more importantly, how does a "good geared" ignis lock have more CS than any other lock with good gear? Light Tunic != Good Gear.
Armor points werent really important back then, i would have used it if i had got the chance to get one.



You must be PvPing some pretty terrible players. A marks that can't kill you during 26 seconds (I think?) of burst of wind and son of the wind just fails, and that's without even considering his other ways of disabling you (winter stroke, ambush, distracting shot, stunning fist). It's understandable that you can beat most barbs, but only if you've skilled for PvP against them (Slow 5 or something stupid) instead of a setup that is more general.
Lol first you tell me all marks had bow lvl 5, sotw 5 and the whole tricks stuff, so definitly a pvp setup, and i couldnt beat them and as you started talking about barbs you say its just possible with a "stupid" pvp setup including slow 5. Only very few marks use all spells you named on a high lvl, as only very few/no locks use slow 5. It is possible to beat a marks that doesnt use lvl 5 bow, lvl 5 sotw, ambush and so on, if he doesnt have ubergear and hits 500 norms or more you can survive bow, survive sotw (or get a spell through, happens often now) and then start a cc chain.
And yes my setup is mainly made for fighting barbs cause they are the only class against which i need special skills i wouldnt use if they wouldnt exist. Slow 3, lazyness 1 and mind push 4, but all of them are also very usefull in war and against other classes.

In RvR lock can still be fun, but when the enemy has several marksman you will never get close enough to cast a spell without simply zerging the enemy. There's no half-way point, either you can do nothing or you overrun them with numbers.This doesnt make sense, this would mean that no other class than marks, long bow hunters and full support conjus/knights are involved in battles, nobody beside archers can get near enough to attack. Of course i can if we coordinate well or i attack enemies that come closer. I dont expect that i can come close enough to an enemy zerg and survive long enough to do something if im completly alone, of course i need my allies (as all classes).


I don't know anyone dumb enough to stand there and let me load them up with DoTs (which are generally only 25 range) after I've darknessed them. With slower cast times, and longer global cooldowns, it's very difficult to darkness someone and still get off your DoTs. Its not hard to get into range 20 of someone, cast darkness, ivy, 2-3 spells (depending on ivys lvl) and maybe get closer while gcd is running to cast will domain then. It isnt hard.

[Shwish]

Just on a side note: Don't use 'Son of the wind' as an argument when simulating a PvP situation with an archer. If you've tried it lately you'd see that it fails for times than it succeeds and most archers don't bother taking the evasion tree that high anymore.

So scratch that skill of the list of effective counters.

Thanks, you can continue your random argument now.

[ncvr]

Its not hard to get into range 20 of someone, cast darkness, ivy, 2-3 spells (depending on ivys lvl) and maybe get closer while gcd is running to cast will domain then. It isnt hard.
No, it's not. It's hard to not find yourself dead when you're done with that, though. Keep in mind that the discussion is about fort wars, in which locks are very visible, high priority targets.

[Seher]

This doesnt make sense, this would mean that no other class than marks, long bow hunters and full support conjus/knights are involved in battles, nobody beside archers can get near enough to attack.

It kind of is like that, because there isn't enough healing in this game.

[Catelyn]

Shwish, yes sotw is random, escapist is random too. But it still works and most use it. It makes you mad when you use it and you still get spells+normals, but it makes you laugh when it works and you evade spells+normal hits.
Even if it's 50%, that's still enough to delay your death, and if you're lucky evade knocks or debuffs or any crucial spell. But that's another debate.

For the others, Van is a good lock, and if you haved played less time then others doesn't mean they are better. Specially that we play differently, on different servers, fights are not exactly the same, and we can learn from everyone ;)

Doppel, it's not hard to chain your spells, but usually you will find yourself dead after that.
In a fort war, that's obvious, many will target you unless you have a zerg backup.

In 1vs1 , unless you come from rear and the enemy didn't see you, that chain fails badly.
First they won't wait till you are in range to react and even if you hit the first spell,
you have short gcd after ivy, 1.5 sec, that's enough for good players to ripost.
That kind of playing could work sometimes, but it won't if you are fighting above average players.

Before update, we used to see many locks and hunters, and not many knights (except for alsuis).
Now we see mostly archers,many play their knighs again, and marks seem's the favorite. Maybe we should ask ourselves why?

[Shwish]

Before update, we used to see many locks and hunters, and not many knights (except for alsuis).
Now we see mostly archers,many play their knighs again, and marks seem's the favorite. Maybe we should ask ourselves why?

What? We playing the same game? All I see nowadays are Barbs... they everywhere

[Catelyn]

yes sorry barbs too :P

[VandaMan]

Why do marks play without dragonamu, evebow and 2 rha rings? Because not everyone has them. :facepalm3: Again: A lock that was not able to get cs items needed twice the time a lock with good gear needed to cast a spell (in case both used lvl 5 devotion).

It's much easier to get some cast speed gear than it is to get a dragon ammy or eve bow and boss jewelry.

Lol first you tell me all marks had bow lvl 5, sotw 5 and the whole tricks stuff, so definitly a pvp setup, and i couldnt beat them and as you started talking about barbs you say its just possible with a "stupid" pvp setup including slow 5. Only very few marks use all spells you named on a high lvl, as only very few/no locks use slow 5. It is possible to beat a marks that doesnt use lvl 5 bow, lvl 5 sotw, ambush and so on, if he doesnt have ubergear and hits 500 norms or more you can survive bow, survive sotw (or get a spell through, happens often now) and then start a cc chain.

I didn't say all marks have all of that. Almost all marks do carry BoW though, on level 4 or 5, along with winter stroke at the highest level they can get it and ambush level 3 or 4. Quite a few carry SOTW as well. I wouldn't consider that a setup specific for PvP against a lock because all of these things are useful against all classes.

Its not hard to get into range 20 of someone, cast darkness, ivy, 2-3 spells (depending on ivys lvl) and maybe get closer while gcd is running to cast will domain then. It isnt hard.

yeah, this: No, it's not. It's hard to not find yourself dead when you're done with that, though. Keep in mind that the discussion is about fort wars, in which locks are very visible, high priority targets.

[doppelapfel]

It's much easier to get some cast speed gear than it is to get a dragon ammy or eve bow and boss jewelry.
Anyway i dont want another class to be totally addicted to gear, atm locks are good to play without while cs-items arent useless. If you give +cs back its old power locks would need to be nerfed to a point where those with cs gear are balanced, this would hurt those without gear. Cs bonus is what all boni should be, its nice to have it, it helps a bit but its not that important that you get an unfair advantage if you have lots of it (saying this as a lock with 17% cs on gear).


I didn't say all marks have all of that. Almost all marks do carry BoW though, on level 4 or 5, along with winter stroke at the highest level they can get it and ambush level 3 or 4. Quite a few carry SOTW as well. I wouldn't consider that a setup specific for PvP against a lock because all of these things are useful against all classes.
Bow 5 ambush 3, ws 5 could be included in a normal war setup, tricks 17 is in the same way pvp orientated as putting points in slow imo. Those 3 spells are not enough to kill a lock (at least not with the gear my marks has).

No, it's not. It's hard to not find yourself dead when you're done with that, though. Keep in mind that the discussion is about fort wars, in which locks are very visible, high priority targets.

Im not as often targeted as before the update, most ppl try to kill barbs now first (or conjus as before), at least where i play. I dont expect being able to kill an enemy totally on my own but i can either be a good help by casting darkness and my 2 dots that deal 2k dmg together (i usually do not die while doing this if i dont act dumb) or i can kill ppl alone if i get help (auras, dispel, heals).

Really, what do you think locks should be able to do? Spam enough dmg spells in few seconds to get down an enemy alone, fast enough to not die while doing it? I can deal a lot dmg (lightning, ice blast, fireball), cc a lot enemies at the same time (got 10 spells with a cc effect atm) , support my allies with dispel, synergy, mp/mc or even buffs if i would want to, disable many enemies at the same time (mind push :devil:), if i want to i can also go hunting and kill most ppl in pvp, i have a lot abilities to be usefull and to have fun, im satisfied with my lock in its current state and i dont want it to turn into an easy playable op class as before.

[Catelyn]

I don't think having old cast speed could work, we need a balanced solution.

And that doesn't mean we need to change only locks spell, it's not only from a locks perspective.

A lock is supposed to deal lots of damage, on a singler player or group of ennemies, and have crowd control options. In return, he needs protection from his mates.
If you want to play support and give mana and buffs, get a conj, you are born to deal damage, leave support for others :P Your cc can save you, you use them to buy time to cast more damage spells.

Now lock deal lots of damage, when using dots. But dots are effective on a period of time (5 to 10 seconds with our spells). Why not, even if it can be dispelled, countered.
I prefer to consider dots as spells to use early in fight, or when the oppenent is running, to make sure to kill him even if he gets away. Now dot are our best way to attack. Ngd choice :P

Before update, you could use slow for pvp, but now it's a must. You can't survive without it, in small fights and even sometimes near forts. You can have a setup without it, but you will never be able to survive on your own.
It used to work on hunters to limit their speed, now it's only dedicated to warriors.
And how does it work? You cast it when a barb charges and you run, hoping you could last for 10 seconds before being able to respond.
Why did they get beetle effect on madness? I don't know, before we had advantage with beelte, now it's the barb revenge.

Only problem, they use spring. So you need a high lvl slow, and even with that they can get you anyway. Mind push is not that good, they can stun you when in range too.
Then it's kick+buffs+hits+feint and you are dead.

If madness should stay the same, maybe something needs to be done with the kick/feint combo.

Slow is essential with knights too. They can block spells now. I didn't really look into it so I could say nonsense, but does ao1 helps resist some cc spells?

As for the other part, it's with archers range. Now we can't do much in fort wars due to that insane range, our areas are range 25-30 anyway. Sometimes I even get hit without seeing them. Maybe with less range, we will be more efficient in battles.

[esp_tupac]

One of the posts above stated that a lock that was not able to get cs items needed twice the time a lock with good gear needed to cast a spell. That might be the case before the update, but after the implementation of gcd and cs nerf, the gap between uber geared lock and a normal geared lock has been greatly reduced. cs on your armor barely affect your combat ability right now. it's that 100% cs from Arcane Devotion that really makes a difference.

[Mikan]

One of the posts above stated that a lock that was not able to get cs items needed twice the time a lock with good gear needed to cast a spell. That might be the case before the update, but after the implementation of gcd and cs nerf, the gap between uber geared lock and a normal geared lock has been greatly reduced. cs on your armor barely affect your combat ability right now. it's that 100% cs from Arcane Devotion that really makes a difference.
This is correct, having maxed CS gear now is only roughly equivalent to having level 6 devotion.

[VandaMan]

This is correct, having maxed CS gear now is only roughly equivalent to having level 6 devotion.

How can it be equivalent to something that doesn't even exist? O.o

[Mikan]

How can it be equivalent to something that doesn't even exist? O.o
Magnets.





Arcane devotion increases by 10% per level, lowering the casting times by 50% on the highest level, so what I was implying was that having max cast speed items will only bring your cast times down by about 55-60%, equivalent to having a level 6 Arcane devotion skilled (if it existed).

[doppelapfel]

One of the posts above stated that a lock that was not able to get cs items needed twice the time a lock with good gear needed to cast a spell. That might be the case before the update, but after the implementation of gcd and cs nerf, the gap between uber geared lock and a normal geared lock has been greatly reduced. cs on your armor barely affect your combat ability right now. it's that 100% cs from Arcane Devotion that really makes a difference.
I know and im happy about the change but some ppl want the old system back.

How can it be equivalent to something that doesn't even exist? O.o
Devotion alone still reduces the casttime by 10% per lvl (+/-~1%) as it was before so a lvl 6 devotion would probably reduce it by 60%.

Arcane devotion increases by 10% per level, lowering the casting times by 50% on the highest level, so what I was implying was that having max cast speed items will only bring your cast times down by about 55-60%, equivalent to having a level 6 Arcane devotion skilled (if it existed).
Devotion 5 decreases your casting time by 50%, if you have 21%cs on gear and devotion 5 its -45,23...% casting time (in this case 21% cs reduce casttime by 4,76...%), if youre ignis and have a light tunic, 21% on staff and gloves and devotion 5 you need 44,44...% of the normal casttime for casting (-5,55...% by gear).

If you do not use devotion the effect of the items is higher:
21% cs reduce casttime by ~17,4% and 25% by exactly 20%.

A lvl 6 devotion that decreases the casttime by 60% would have to give +150% cs bonus, you can only have a maximum of +125% that is as i said ~-55,55% of the casttime.

[Nils_Dacke]

What this game lacks is a good long-ranged castspeed debuff.

[Geev]

What this game lacks is a good long-ranged castspeed debuff.

The Goltars have it at melee range. Mind squash debuffs it as well. Long range? Do archers have trouble killing mages? I know, shooting 300 normals from 40m at a guy with crap armor and 3000 hp is so unfair, how can anyone play archer without a CS debuff?

[Nils_Dacke]

It apparent that cast speed has a significant impact on the gameplay.

Yet there is no specific debuff against it.

We have debuffs of crit hit chance (that noone ever uses), against hit chance (that noone ever use), of movement speed (which is used frequently), of constitution, strength, dexterity, armour points and of just about everything -- except such a crucial property as cast speed.

PS. 1.) Any non-warrior, not just mages, standing so close to a hammer-weilding warrior that MS can be used, is dead already. 2.) Anyone within the 25m range of the deadly attacks/debuffs of a warlock, is dead already. 3.) Cast speed is important for every class, not just mages. 4.) RO is not a PvP game.

[Dome]

The Goltars have it at melee range. Mind squash debuffs it as well. Long range? Do archers have trouble killing mages? I know, shooting 300 normals from 40m at a guy with crap armor and 3000 hp is so unfair, how can anyone play archer without a CS debuff?

lol at 3000 hp with barrier and soulkeep. (and before you start the resisting bussiness mages tend to resist burst and etherial also)


This math lesson is all very nice. You guys are very smart and just cool mathematicians, you just simply miss 1 little problem here.
These are all very nice and probably true on papper, where are no obstacles, remove these from the game and marx will own any mage. But as long as locks cast meteor instantly on me while hugging a rock hitting 400dmg dizzy for 8 sec, while my burts arrow does 15 dmg and OMG 11sec dizzy what a difference!
NERF ME PLS!!!

Ever fought at samal for example? Where locks own the walls? Or as a matter of fact any fort where locks can force any archer of the wall

If my etherial would do 1000 and my burst 400 and every lock would be dumb enough to stand in the open than yes, you would have a reason to wish back the old system.
Locks are still the OP class. Not SC noob barbs with the position bug, neither knights with the high survivability.
________
Digital Vaporizer (http://digitalvaporizers.info)

[doppelapfel]

lol at 3000 hp with barrier and soulkeep. (and before you start the resisting bussiness mages tend to resist burst and etherial also)
Nobody "tends to resist" anything, resists are random. And Marksmen can resist as well as locks, havign a chance to continue their cc-chain.


This math lesson is all very nice. You guys are very smart and just cool mathematicians, you just simply miss 1 little problem here.
These are all very nice and probably true on papper, where are no obstacles, remove these from the game and marx will own any mage. But as long as locks cast meteor instantly on me while hugging a rock hitting 400dmg dizzy for 8 sec, while my burts arrow does 15 dmg and OMG 11sec dizzy what a difference!
NERF ME PLS!!!
The difference is: you can still do a lot dmg when being dizzied, the lock not. And i ts not possible to "instantly" cast meteor, your bow or freeze are always faster, no matter how much +cs the lock has.

Ever fought at samal for example? Where locks own the walls? Or as a matter of fact any fort where locks can force any archer of the wall

If my etherial would do 1000 and my burst 400 and every lock would be dumb enough to stand in the open than yes, you would have a reason to wish back the old system.
Locks are still the OP class. Not SC noob barbs with the position bug, neither knights with the high survivability.
Locks are op as soon as they can cast the first cc, marks are op because they can run awway for ages or build up endless ccchains if they dont want to, hunters are op when they come from camo with confuse and barbarians are op as soon as they reach the enemy. NGD should start creating a real balance instead of making everyone overpowered in different situations.

[Eli2]

bla bla bla ...
I just crafted a nice reply,
but when i reread it,
i realized you do not make any sense.
:¬¬:

[Balint]

The main problem with warlocks is they can't use their powers. Marksmans can have too much range (35+20%+25%) so at the ranged battles only the marks have some role, warlocks can't do any reliable attack there. Sultar's terror can reach 35m(projection +15% range) but since all marks have their passive range bonus skill at least on lvl1, it's still "low range" spell. The meele battles are ruled by barbarians. So all the meele spells like: Master of Doom, Crystal Blast, Mind Push, Evendim's Fury etc. are used only few times.

There should be come the questions: Then why I am killed by warlocks many times, or why I see many spell throught the battles that casted by warlocks?
It's all about the defense, and defensive skills. Warlocks can only use their powers well when their group has more players than the enemy. e.g. 20vs15. In that fact the warlocks are protected by the allies, so they don't need any defense. At the moment marksmans have really good defense, even without the strategic position. Locks (who should be also a player with ranged attack) have nothing. Magic barrier means only +1000 points, soulkeeper can be casted only in 25m.

At the moment to resist a CC spell has a big role in Regnum. So every class will skilled to prevent the ambush, kick, feint, ivy, will domain etc. The barb who dosen't have UM, he will die fast. I see recently players only attack under SoTW. Locks do not have that advantage and that's why I think sometimes that locks are only to die.
Marks and barbs have big base attack, they can attack under dizzy as well. Locks are not able to do that. Marks have faster and more range CCs than the locks. And since the update marks and barbs have enough mana regeneration so locks don't have the mana advantage anymore. There is no reason to play lock anymore.

Conjus have a full socery tree, they are able to ress someone, and to heal of course. They can use the mental tree to attack so there don't need any warlock to cast e.g. a pricking ivy lvl5.
and since Sultar's terror was nerfed there is no reason to choose lock anymore.

Last time on horus I saw ~15 marks and ~1-2 lock in ignis army. Why was there that big difference? Because of the 2 RoL's? I don't think so.

[Gabburtjuh]

your bow or freeze are always faster, no matter how much +cs the lock has.


Agreed on most, but bow=0.5 sec, meteor =2 sec, take of 60%, 0,8 sec, taken into account the scenario of a lock hugging a tree, the lock is the one that moves first, so unless your reaction time is 0,3 sec WITH the added time of the server sending the info of him moving, your bow/freeze will be slower.

[doppelapfel]

Agreed on most, but bow=0.5 sec, meteor =2 sec, take of 60%, 0,8 sec, taken into account the scenario of a lock hugging a tree, the lock is the one that moves first, so unless your reaction time is 0,3 sec WITH the added time of the server sending the info of him moving, your bow/freeze will be slower.
Just click the button for freeze/bow the whole time, you will definitly be faster. The only spell that a lock can cast faster is will domain, but only if he has more +cs boni on his gear.

[mimsy]

i have +18% cs gear atm, and i can tell a difference when i play without it. maybe it's the lag....nah, that never happens in RO :P

[Latan]

Agreed on most, but bow=0.5 sec, meteor =2 sec, take of 60%, 0,8 sec, taken into account the scenario of a lock hugging a tree, the lock is the one that moves first, so unless your reaction time is 0,3 sec WITH the added time of the server sending the info of him moving, your bow/freeze will be slower.

1) most of marks have start to buy cs equip/gems.
seeing a marks with 12-15 cs gear is not so uncommon
2) even with max gears you can never reach a -60%
I.E.
1) meteor AT MAX casted in 0.90 with UBERGEAR
2) meteor casted in 0.94 with UBERCRAPGEAR (4+4 staff, 4 gloves)
*1)http://www.claninquisition.org/index.php?page=74&weapon_bonus=14&armor_bonus=7&submit=Update
*2)http://www.claninquisition.org/index.php?page=74&weapon_bonus=8&armor_bonus=4&submit=Update


reading a marks who's complaining about locks is the most embarrassing statemen't i've read from months

[Dome]

he difference is: you can still do a lot dmg when being dizzied, the lock not.
True true. But its true that I cant shot you at spot range, but you can run for cover when you spot me, making my ubermega so overpowered range a big lump of crap.

crying about cs has as much sense, as:

A. a thread where barbs ask for 1000 more dmg.
B. a thread where marx ask for 100 range.
C. a thread where knights ask for 1000 more armour points.

[Bardar]

All of the CS bonuses on items should be doubled imo..

It works as a cast SPEED increase, not a cast time decrease.
So, cast speed +100% would be casting time reduced by 50% and cast speed +300% would be casting time reduced by 75%. If the bonuses on items were doubled, it'd be fine and also the cap (21% on items.. anyone know if it's still there?) removed if it's not already.

[Geev]

The main problem with warlocks is they can't use their powers. Marksmans can have too much range (35+20%+25%) so at the ranged battles only the marks have some role, warlocks can't do any reliable attack there. Sultar's terror can reach 35m(projection +15% range) but since all marks have their passive range bonus skill at least on lvl1, it's still "low range" spell. The meele battles are ruled by barbarians. So all the meele spells like: Master of Doom, Crystal Blast, Mind Push, Evendim's Fury etc. are used only few times.

There should be come the questions: Then why I am killed by warlocks many times, or why I see many spell throught the battles that casted by warlocks?
It's all about the defense, and defensive skills. Warlocks can only use their powers well when their group has more players than the enemy. e.g. 20vs15. In that fact the warlocks are protected by the allies, so they don't need any defense. At the moment marksmans have really good defense, even without the strategic position. Locks (who should be also a player with ranged attack) have nothing. Magic barrier means only +1000 points, soulkeeper can be casted only in 25m.

At the moment to resist a CC spell has a big role in Regnum. So every class will skilled to prevent the ambush, kick, feint, ivy, will domain etc. The barb who dosen't have UM, he will die fast. I see recently players only attack under SoTW. Locks do not have that advantage and that's why I think sometimes that locks are only to die.
Marks and barbs have big base attack, they can attack under dizzy as well. Locks are not able to do that. Marks have faster and more range CCs than the locks. And since the update marks and barbs have enough mana regeneration so locks don't have the mana advantage anymore. There is no reason to play lock anymore.

Conjus have a full socery tree, they are able to ress someone, and to heal of course. They can use the mental tree to attack so there don't need any warlock to cast e.g. a pricking ivy lvl5.
and since Sultar's terror was nerfed there is no reason to choose lock anymore.

Last time on horus I saw ~15 marks and ~1-2 lock in ignis army. Why was there that big difference? Because of the 2 RoL's? I don't think so.

First of all Sultars rarely does any damage that is game changing in combat, but that doesn't mean it isn't a useful spell. The knock can still be brutal. Second, there are many good area spells beside Sultars. Twister, Frozen Storm, Fireball, Summon Lightning. MoD is one of the best spells in the game. Evendims is good but no body has it since SM tree sucks. Warjurers don't have area spells available other than Evendims. As such, they function more like archers by zapping with their staffs 1v1. I do think it would be interesting to play a "support warjurer", with heals, res, some SM, and mentals.

I play 3 classes: Lock (50), Conj (47), and Knight (45). I have to say that the lock dies more than any other class by far. My conj almost never dies (and I play up front a lot). My knight dies if I stupidly charge a zerg but is otherwise pretty safe.

With all that, my lock gets about 10k rps a month. It is true that if there are large numbers of archers it makes Warlock's life very hard. Otherwise it is a playable and fun class, albeit with many frustrations and problems.

One other thing, the mana replenishment rate for warriors does not make mage class pointless. Warriors don't regenerate fast unless resting, or at least out of combat mode. In combat mode, they regen very slowly. In a typical battle it is very easy to run out of mana and resting is not an option. Warriors don't have Amb Sac either which every mage carries at least at lvl 4.

[KKharzov]

A somewhat similar scenario exists with attack speed. When I will be able to get my hands on a RoL in February I will do more tests, but I am almost certain in my current speculations.

Anyway, it is funny to see people fumbling around trying to buy MAX gear (usually trading all their money and valuable items in the process) just to get more CS/AS.

If you have +10% CS and +20% CS the difference is honestly going to be small between the two. Even if you have pauldrons with +3% or something you are already getting the main boost. Adding another +7% to that makes MINIMAL changes.

tl;dr

Cast Speed and Attack Speed now mainly determine who is the first to make a hit.

[Balint]

I like to play lock it's fun. Iceblast+darkness+lighting+fireball(+soulkeeper) kills almost everyone.

The problems are:

1) warlocks have really bad normal hits: useless to beak the door, useless under dizzy, and they need mana to do anything.

2) they have not enough power points. Till lvl45 the mages have so many powers like the others have. Only on lvl50 can you feel a slighty diference. ~20 powers, but you need some on lvl1. The other classes are reseting for areas or CCs or defense buffs, but warlocks need many spells to attack (too).

3) warlocks have the worst defense ever. no any spell to prevent the CCs. Every other offensive class has this ability: UM(90%), SoTW(30%). And mages as slow as the knights.

4) mages need the +100% cast speed buff. Its boring to cast it always, but without it you are nothing. Barbs and arhers can do nice normals without buffs AND they can cast spells really fast! They don't need the cast speed buff. only for the poor mages.

5) marksmen have double range than locks, that makes the locks useless at the battles. If you want to attack in range play marks. Barbs better in melee and marks in range.

I'm not saying warlocks are unplayable but they are far from OP class.

[Gigantic-knight]

I admit barbs being OP. but they are only OP with their buffs combined with a good weapon. if you only have one of those 2 you are still able to play well. but not OP.

Barbs are boring now imo because they are OP imo so i'm making a lvl 45 barb to be sligtly worse.

The Banished Templar (new barb)
Gigantic knight
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