"Protection" vs. "Resist Damage" vs. "Armor"

[Geev]

I understand what these are on a general level. Protection boosts your armor and resist damage cuts down on the damage you receive. But what is the precise math behind them and how do they operate?

If I increase Protection by 100% how does this affect the damage I receive mathematically?

Is Resist Damage a chance to resist damage AND a damage reducer, or does it always work and always reduce damage. Does it reduce damage after armor reduction is calculated or before?

Do we know how Armor reduces damage precisely?

[WarParty]

I understand what these are on a general level. Protection boosts your armor and resist damage cuts down on the damage you receive. But what is the precise math behind them and how do they operate?

If I increase Protection by 100% how does this affect the damage I receive mathematically?

Is Resist Damage a chance to resist damage AND a damage reducer, or does it always work and always reduce damage. Does it reduce damage after armor reduction is calculated or before?

Do we know how Armor reduces damage precisely?


Sadly we don't and I don't think NGD really knows either to be honest.
We should have resist stats in our game character profile and also CS/AS ratio.
We do not have any of these and I have not seen anywhere that NGD lists these for us as most ALL MMO's do.
All armor lists Very good, good, bad and very bad on armor stats for all damage types yet no where can you find out exactly what bad is % wise.


O M E G A

P.S. This maybe a question of the week ?.

[Latan]

If I increase Protection by 100% how does this affect the damage I receive mathematically?

it doubles your armor points
I.E. a marks with 300 armor with 5% protection helmet and 5% breastplate has 330 armor points.
a barbarian hits him for a 700 dmg normal hit.
the 300 points armor reduces damages to 550
the 330 points armor reduces damages to 535

Is Resist Damage a chance to resist damage AND a damage reducer, or does it always work and always reduce damage. Does it reduce damage after armor reduction is calculated or before?

it's not a chance, it's a damage reducer.
it's calculated AFTER armor reduction.
if we take the previous example, a 10% slash resistance would bring damages to 495 and 482 damages (both examples)

Do we know how Armor reduces damage precisely?
if you mean the good/bad resistance...good/very bood/excellent is +30%, +60%, +90% armor and -30/60% for bad/v.bad
so a full good vs piercing and very bad vs fire 300 points armor would mean that works like a 390 points armor vs piercing and as a 120 points armor vs fire

[ncvr]

Protection and armour are pretty much the same thing. A rather complicated calculation is made to determine the exact amount of damage mitigated by a certain number of armour points.

Resist damage (not to be confused with damage type resistances found on each piece of armour) is always shown as a % value, and will reduce damage taken by that number. So if you have 30% resist dmg to physical dmg, a slashing attack which would've done 100 dmg to you will be reduced to 70, then further mitigated by armour/protection.

[-Logan-]

Protection and armour are pretty much the same thing. A rather complicated calculation is made to determine the exact amount of damage mitigated by a certain number of armour points.

Resist damage (not to be confused with damage type resistances found on each piece of armour) is always shown as a % value, and will reduce damage taken by that number. So if you have 30% resist dmg to physical dmg, a slashing attack which would've done 100 dmg to you will be reduced to 70, then further mitigated by armour/protection.
I'm a bit confused with all this xD

Say I have a full set of Lion armor which is very good against piercing damage. Lets say it has +2% resist physical damage and +3% resist piercing damage. Would I receive +35% resistance against piercing damage :p ?

Additionally, does that sum up with other powers like a passive +10% resist piercing or +20% resist physical damage? :confused:

A bit unrelated perhaps, I was doing a lot of tests on damage reduction, and it seems that there is a cap on the max damage you can reduce, or maybe just to reduce more damage I would need a much larger bonus. Archer guards hit me for 11 damage, but when I buff with Caution, Frenzy, or even bring Steel Temper along they still hit me for 11 damage.

Also did tests on the difference between high level armors, and it turns out the more protection you have, the better. It seems to be the most important thing now. In one example of slashing damage versus full lion armor, (which is bad against slashing) the damage was around 400. Versus full gryphon armor (which is very good against slashing) the damage was ~420. Lion armor has more protection, and it seems to have totally pwned the gryphon armor in this scenario.

[ncvr]

Say I have a full set of Lion armor which is very good against piercing damage. Lets say it has +2% resist physical damage and +3% resist piercing damage.
I was under the impression that the resistances to each damage type (i.e very good, etc) only modify the degree to which your armour points mitigate damage taken, so for example, if a piece of gear has 100 armour and it's very good to piercing, then it will be treated as having 130 armour if you are attacked with a piercing attack. The armour points themselves then go through another more complex calculation to come up with how much damage is mitigated.

[Geev]

I was under the impression that the resistances to each damage type (i.e very good, etc) only modify the degree to which your armour points mitigate damage taken, so for example, if a piece of gear has 100 armour and it's very good to piercing, then it will be treated as having 130 armour if you are attacked with a piercing attack. The armour points themselves then go through another more complex calculation to come up with how much damage is mitigated.



This is correct, but what is the calculation?

[Geev]

it doubles your armor points
I.E. a marks with 300 armor with 5% protection helmet and 5% breastplate has 330 armor points.
a barbarian hits him for a 700 dmg normal hit.
the 300 points armor reduces damages to 550
the 330 points armor reduces damages to 535



it's not a chance, it's a damage reducer.
it's calculated AFTER armor reduction.
if we take the previous example, a 10% slash resistance would bring damages to 495 and 482 damages (both examples)


if you mean the good/bad resistance...good/very bood/excellent is +30%, +60%, +90% armor and -30/60% for bad/v.bad
so a full good vs piercing and very bad vs fire 300 points armor would mean that works like a 390 points armor vs piercing and as a 120 points armor vs fire

How are you getting 550 and 535?

good/very good it is my understanding that these are +15/+30 *points* added to that armor piece's contribution and vice versa, and then calculated.

In general, I've found that players under Heroic Presence 5 take very little damage -- much less than 1/2 -- from mobs. The other day I was grinding with a barb who was taking 18 pts damage from an Ignean Orc Captain at the OC. I'm sure he had caution going but 80% + 30% = slightly more than double the armor points.

[VandaMan]

MAGIC ARMOR THINGY THAT KNOWS STUFF MAGICALLY AND SHIT! (http://kit.snuggly1.com/)

[Geev]

MAGIC ARMOR THINGY THAT KNOWS STUFF MAGICALLY AND SHIT! (http://kit.snuggly1.com/)

Very nice. Calculations based on what source?

[Miraculix]

Very nice. Calculations based on what source?

The last person who mentioned where the calculations come from got an infraction from DkySven for insulting the creator of the tool. Suffice to say they come from a dark place where it doesn't smell so good.

[KKharzov]

The last person who mentioned where the calculations come from got an infraction from DkySven for insulting the creator of the tool. Suffice to say they come from a dark place where it doesn't smell so good.
Indeed.

My sincerest intention was simply to point out that new players do not enjoy FALSE links to mudkip armor calculators. They could pull out a link to redtube from the Regnum forums and it would slip under their noses.

http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=12497&highlight=Armour+Calculator+Mikan
Note Awareness -> Last edited by Wyatt; Today at 02:53 AM.


Yet, alas. Tis a bannable offense now. SOME people are just bored these days, making brash decisions before properly consulting matters. *whistles*

[Latan]

Resist damage (not to be confused with damage type resistances found on each piece of armour) is always shown as a % value, and will reduce damage taken by that number. So if you have 30% resist dmg to physical dmg, a slashing attack which would've done 100 dmg to you will be reduced to 70, then further mitigated by armour/protection.

no, it works in the opposite way.
FIRST act the armor, THEN the damage reduction

Say I have a full set of Lion armor which is very good against piercing damage. Lets say it has +2% resist physical damage and +3% resist piercing damage. Would I receive +35% resistance against piercing damage :p ?

no.
if you have a full very good against piercing 300 point armor, it will be act like a 480points armor (300+60%), THEN a further 5% of the damage that would be taken, will be resisted

Additionally, does that sum up with other powers like a passive +10% resist piercing or +20% resist physical damage?

yes.
with frenzy (5) and steel temper (5) you could have 20% resistance against slashing and blunt, and 30% against piercing

A bit unrelated perhaps, I was doing a lot of tests on damage reduction, and it seems that there is a cap on the max damage you can reduce, or maybe just to reduce more damage I would need a much larger bonus. Archer guards hit me for 11 damage, but when I buff with Caution, Frenzy, or even bring Steel Temper along they still hit me for 11 damage.

the cap is 95%
(I.E. a serpent bite can't deal less damages than 25 + 5/tick)

How are you getting 550 and 535?

[700-(300/2)] and [700-(330/2)]

good/very good it is my understanding that these are +15/+30 *points* added to that armor piece's contribution and vice versa, and then calculated.

no.
with the last balance it's +30% and +60% (+90% excellent)

[Geev]

no, it works in the opposite way.

[700-(300/2)] and [700-(330/2)]



Ok, where is the "/2" coming from? :o





no.
with the last balance it's +30% and +60% (+90% excellent)

I'm not seeing this in the list of changes for 1.6.6 or 1.6.5:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/index.php?l=1&sec=27&subsec=2

The Wiki reflects your statement although I seem to remember that it was points. If it is now percent that makes the impact of resistances much, much stronger. Will have to now reevaluate my armor.

[Latan]

Ok, where is the "/2" coming from? :o

tests :P

armor reduction:
(armor_points/2) for archers
(a_p/1.82) for warriors
(a_p/1.66) for mages

try this (http://kit.snuggly1.com/) tool: it's very accurate

[ncvr]

Do you have any more sources on this info?

The only official word we've gotten on armour points is this (http://regnumonline.com.ar/index.php?l=1&sec=27&subsec=4&cl=7) very old changelog from beta, as far as I know.

[Latan]

Do you have any more sources on this info?

The only official word we've gotten on armour points is this (http://regnumonline.com.ar/index.php?l=1&sec=27&subsec=4&cl=7) very old changelog from beta, as far as I know.

why do you need "official sources" when you know how it works and you can easily have a positive feedback testing it on amun or on live server?
you just need spells with a fixed amount of damages (serpent bite, lightning, frozen storm, winter stroke and so on) or an initiation weapon and different kinds of armors

[ncvr]

I was referring to the change on damage resistances.

[Latan]

I was referring to the change on damage resistances.
me too
log in and check if you don't trust it :cuac: