Warmasters Review from a Conjurer's Perspective

[AariEv]

This is long so bear with me. I would post all of this in the "official warmasters topic" but it's too much information and it might derail the thread. Anyway, I currently have a level 53 conjurer (Aasiora, the only character I play) and there are several things that I feel need to be discussed.

First, I was taking a look at the experience ranking charts and I noticed that there is at least 2 players who have reached level 60 in all classes except for conjus (on horus). In fact, conjurers on horus generally have a much lower level than everyone else currently. Why is this? I think the reason that conjurers haven't been leveling up like all the other classes is because they have arguably become the most difficult class to grind. As it is, there are two main ways to level a conju and both methods are seriously flawed. If you take a look at the Nemon server, the highest level conjurer there is 56 at the moment.

Conjurer Support Grinding/RvR

Support has been bugged ever since I started playing Regnum and that was one year ago. Whenever a conju heals/buffs an ally in war/grind, he or she is supposed to receive rps/xp for contributing. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen the majority of the time. In fact, there is a simple way to stop a support class from "leeching" off of another player: all the other player needs to do is use a spell.

For example, I can buff/heal one warrior that then kills 4 players and I will get no regnum points. I don't get any points because the warrior killed all 4 players with a spell. Once a spell is used, all points that I deserve for support disappears and I get nothing. This bug should be fixed as soon as possible. Perhaps then we'll see more support grinders who can level without a big party. As it is, the only way I can get xp from players is if I skill for auras/buffs/areas and other spells that gather lots of xp/rp. I shouldn't have to do this; I shouldn't have to reskill for protection dome, mana pylon, mana communion, and level 5 buffs just to get xp from players. Maybe this is not NGD's intent, but I believe I should be able to get some points for having my normal support setup that usually helps my zerg more than any other.

From what I've seen, it seems that the only way for a level 50+ conjurer to get xp is by grinding with a large party with auras/areas/buffs. Perhaps this is fine on Ra as the server has a large population, but on Horus and other servers such as Nemon, it's not. At least in syrtis, large grinding parties (around 8 people) are rare. Because of the warmasters update, many players decided to form large parties, but now the grinding has slowed down and these large parties are becoming more scarce (at least during the timezone that I play in).

Conjurer Solo Grinding

Just as support grinding is flawed, solo grinding has also now become flawed. I assume that NGD forgot to raise the level cap of summons. Thus, my golem only does about 80 damage on mobs (I'm level 53) and I assume that the damage will slowly decrease as I level up and the mobs I grind on get harder. Even with extra power points from the later levels, the Mental discipline is not enough to grind. Staffmastery is an option, but this only makes 'good' grinding if you have an uber staff. Since most don't, it's not satisfactory.

There is also another bug which hasn't been fixed yet. When I grind, it is very easy for my golem to glitch and become permanent. I'm not sure what exactly is the cause of the bug, but it usually happens when I cast the "Summon Golem" spell when there is one already summoned. At first I used to relog when my golem became permanent, but now the bug is so common that I'd be relogging every 5 min because of it. Many times solo hunters have tried to kill my conju while grinding and they end up failing; they attack me and I kill them. Most times, my golem was glitched and therefore permanent. While I could probably still kill them even if my golem wasn't permanent, the fact that it was still technically gives me an advantage. I won't pretend that I don't enjoy this bug; grinding is much easier with a permanent glitched golem, but this needs to be fixed ASAP.

War Grinding

When this became live on Amun, I really enjoyed the idea of it. Now that it's on the live servers, I don't. Why? For some reason, NGD decided to remove grp experience from war xp. I understand if they don't want players to level too fast, but it was more balanced with a grp bonus in my opinion. This way, support players would get more than 50 xp for supporting players. This also kind of has to do with the support bug I mentioned above.

Bringing back grp experience would actually be more balanced for all players and would encourage war. In fact, it might even then become possible to level up through war instead of constant grinding on mobs. Thus, the players who reach level 60 through war will actually be "Warmasters" instead of the "Grindmasters" who've basically murdered 1000000000000 mobs.

Balance

Now that NGD has given players 20 more pp and 10 extra levels, there needs to be another balance update. I have screenshots of a level 60 barb killing my character in 2 hits (with a full energy barrier). Since my character has 3400 hp current in addition to the 1000 hp from energy barrier, this would mean that the barb did an average of 2200 damage per hit. I just had to mention this because it's insane.

There are tons and tons of topics in various sections of these forums that talk about things that need to be changed. Things like: Burst of Wind, Confuse, hunter design, etc

--------------------

I could write much more about this update, but I think I've already written an essay. sorry for the typos if there are any.

[_Seinvan]

This is long so bear with me. I would post all of this in the "official warmasters topic" but it's too much information and it might derail the thread. Anyway, I currently have a level 53 conjurer (Aasiora, the only character I play) and there are several things that I feel need to be discussed.

First, I was taking a look at the experience ranking charts and I noticed that there is at least 2 players who have reached level 60 in all classes except for conjus (on horus). In fact, conjurers on horus generally have a much lower level than everyone else currently. Why is this? I think the reason that conjurers haven't been leveling up like all the other classes is because they have arguably become the most difficult class to grind. As it is, there are two main ways to level a conju and both methods are seriously flawed. If you take a look at the Nemon server, the highest level conjurer there is 56 at the moment.
Yep.

Conjurer Support Grinding/RvR

Support has been bugged ever since I started playing Regnum and that was one year ago. Whenever a conju heals/buffs an ally in war/grind, he or she is supposed to receive rps/xp for contributing. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen the majority of the time. In fact, there is a simple way to stop a support class from "leeching" off of another player: all the other player needs to do is use a spell.

For example, I can buff/heal one warrior that then kills 4 players and I will get no regnum points. I don't get any points because the warrior killed all 4 players with a spell. Once a spell is used, all points that I deserve for support disappears and I get nothing. This bug should be fixed as soon as possible. Perhaps then we'll see more support grinders who can level without a big party. As it is, the only way I can get xp from players is if I skill for auras/buffs/areas and other spells that gather lots of xp/rp. I shouldn't have to do this; I shouldn't have to reskill for protection dome, mana pylon, mana communion, and level 5 buffs just to get xp from players. Maybe this is not NGD's intent, but I believe I should be able to get some points for having my normal support setup that usually helps my zerg more than any other.

From what I've seen, it seems that the only way for a level 50+ conjurer to get xp is by grinding with a large party with auras/areas/buffs. Perhaps this is fine on Ra as the server has a large population, but on Horus and other servers such as Nemon, it's not. At least in syrtis, large grinding parties (around 8 people) are rare. Because of the warmasters update, many players decided to form large parties, but now the grinding has slowed down and these large parties are becoming more scarce (at least during the timezone that I play in).

If you want to get exp from support, you need to buff the party/player you're supporting while they're in a fight with a mob, which is retarded. Plus a recast of the buff is necessary every time I want to earn ex. I wholeheartedly agree that support grinding is flawed. I can't believe I'm supposed to help other people when it's so inefficient for myself. You're correct about the party issue on Horus. I had one great grind party, makes me wish I had a scroll then.. but I've gone from 50 to 51 just from supporting others, and I still intend to do so from now on.

Conjurer Solo Grinding

Just as support grinding is flawed, solo grinding has also now become flawed. I assume that NGD forgot to raise the level cap of summons. Thus, my golem only does about 80 damage on mobs (I'm level 53) and I assume that the damage will slowly decrease as I level up and the mobs I grind on get harder. Even with extra power points from the later levels, the Mental discipline is not enough to grind. Staffmastery is an option, but this only makes 'good' grinding if you have an uber staff. Since most don't, it's not satisfactory.

There is also another bug which hasn't been fixed yet. When I grind, it is very easy for my golem to glitch and become permanent. I'm not sure what exactly is the cause of the bug, but it usually happens when I cast the "Summon Golem" spell when there is one already summoned. At first I used to relog when my golem became permanent, but now the bug is so common that I'd be relogging every 5 min because of it. Many times solo hunters have tried to kill my conju while grinding and they end up failing; they attack me and I kill them. Most times, my golem was glitched and therefore permanent. While I could probably still kill them even if my golem wasn't permanent, the fact that it was still technically gives me an advantage. I won't pretend that I don't enjoy this bug; grinding is much easier with a permanent glitched golem, but this needs to be fixed ASAP.

I haven't experienced the higher leveling grinding yet, but from what I hear it's rather terrible; with broken summon levels and SM being shitty etc. I hope this balance update comes soon or else we conjurers are going to be drastically behind everyone else in terms of level. If I want to grind efficiently on a Conjurer I have to be constantly clicking buttons, which is tedious and very annoying. Even support grinding is similar.

I too was worried about abusing the Summon bug, so I waited until the Golem Summon spell was off of CD to recast so I figured I'd be ok. But I reported the bug, even bothered to make a forum post referencing it with a screenshot and everything, and it still wasn't updated, so I figured whatever, free golem!

War Grinding

When this became live on Amun, I really enjoyed the idea of it. Now that it's on the live servers, I don't. Why? For some reason, NGD decided to remove grp experience from war xp. I understand if they don't want players to level too fast, but it was more balanced with a grp bonus in my opinion. This way, support players would get more than 50 xp for supporting players. This also kind of has to do with the support bug I mentioned above.

Bringing back grp experience would actually be more balanced for all players and would encourage war. In fact, it might even then become possible to level up through war instead of constant grinding on mobs. Thus, the players who reach level 60 through war will actually be "Warmasters" instead of the "Grindmasters" who've basically murdered 1000000000000 mobs.

Also agree here. I was really excited on Amun for the war exp and that wars would finally be more popular on Horus. Bringing back group experience would be great, but I also feel it would level chars too fast and increase the desire for farming at forts. I suggest adding the GRP bonus to support spells (OWTH, auras, heals, buffs etc) which will encourage players to work together to get a higher group bonus.

Balance

Now that NGD has given players 20 more pp and 10 extra levels, there needs to be another balance update. I have screenshots of a level 60 barb killing my character in 2 hits (with a full energy barrier). Since my character has 3400 hp current in addition to the 1000 hp from energy barrier, this would mean that the barb did an average of 2200 damage per hit. I just had to mention this because it's insane.

There are tons and tons of topics in various sections of these forums that talk about things that need to be changed. Things like: Burst of Wind, Confuse, hunter design, etc

Let's not start another BoW/Confuse thread, but ye, Kyrottimus maxed a South Cross today for about 3.4k damage, which could insta-kill me if left without a barrier. Even with barrier, I'd be brought down to nearly 1/3 of my normal hp. But yep, the balance update needs to happen before every barb is able to do 1k normals with lvl 5 knocks and roars, every hunter is running around with Confuse(5), every marks has BoW(5) etc.. Balance does notmean everyone is overpowered. This seems like an obvious mistake that NGD seemed to have looked right over, and that was a big mistake.

[Lostican]

So much there I don't even know where to begin to touch on anything. I agree completely.

All this that you have said Aasi, has also led to another issue that is driving me friggin' insaine.

Now at war its about getting the kill...for the quest. Half the time we skip getting a fort just to get kills? IDK...this makes no sense.

All I know is the game has changed. I like some parts...but dang...its just a farming that is really going on.

When I start playing my normal hours..Sytris farms the crap out of both other realms. Later in my night...Ignis farms the crap out of us and Alsius.

There is no real fights anymore except at random places when two large groups accidently meet.

I hate farming..but I'm left with either that or hunting which I dont' really enjoy. I play this game for war...and war sux atm. How can anyone enjoy 25 vs 5??? Straying from the topic...I'll shut up now...

[ice_zero_cool]

There is no real fights anymore except at random places when two large groups accidently meet.

I hate farming..but I'm left with either that or hunting which I dont' really enjoy. I play this game for war...and war sux atm. How can anyone enjoy 25 vs 5??? Straying from the topic...I'll shut up now...
I dont know about that - at least in my timezone (GMT +1) there is rather nice war going on the last days (which is actually pretty much the first time I actively joined the fun on Horus). Pretty often we (syrtis) meet another zerg just as big as ours - in ignis and in alsius

War Grinding

When this became live on Amun, I really enjoyed the idea of it. Now that it's on the live servers, I don't. Why? For some reason, NGD decided to remove grp experience from war xp. I understand if they don't want players to level too fast, but it was more balanced with a grp bonus in my opinion. This way, support players would get more than 50 xp for supporting players. This also kind of has to do with the support bug I mentioned above.

Bringing back grp experience would actually be more balanced for all players and would encourage war. In fact, it might even then become possible to level up through war instead of constant grinding on mobs. Thus, the players who reach level 60 through war will actually be "Warmasters" instead of the "Grindmasters" who've basically murdered 1000000000000 mobs.
I agree. NGD mentioned that they want the lower lvls to join the wars earlier/faster than before. On Amun I tried my lvl 30 marks. I hit enemies with like 20 norms and 30 crits BUT I got nice exp because of the +grp bonus (Something like "38 (+GRP 235)") and I was able to grind by war really nicely. I want that "back"!! xD

[Burdinesku]

I want the GRP back too
In server Ra, actually, the only wars are the ping-pong ones between pp-save aggers, pn save aggers. I haven't seen a fort captured for three days, more or less.

Sorry for the mistakes.
Greetings, ausarta.

[HidraA]

Balance

Now that NGD has given players 20 more pp and 10 extra levels, there needs to be another balance update. I have screenshots of a level 60 barb killing my character in 2 hits (with a full energy barrier). Since my character has 3400 hp current in addition to the 1000 hp from energy barrier, this would mean that the barb did an average of 2200 damage per hit. I just had to mention this because it's insane.

Don't worry i got kiled by 3k critical from a barb that was only lvl 50...

http://img607.imageshack.us/f/criticald.png/

Some dmg are insane compared with power of heals or armors.
And noticed another think...Ignis MS works all the time true my still skin.
It's a feature in ignis?In 1 hour of war over 9 MS worked true still skin.Almoust all of them.
Syrtis MS works vary rare.(this made me to feel a bit better).

There are tons and tons of topics in various sections of these forums that talk about things that need to be changed. Things like: Burst of Wind, Confuse, hunter design, etc
.

Abouth this you told everithing..also i made lots of post that are locked or there it's not official position about conj what NGD plan to doo or how they will balance grind of them.

[Phlue4]

Even with extra power points from the later levels, the Mental discipline is not enough to grind. Staffmastery is an option, but this only makes 'good' grinding if you have an uber staff. Since most don't, it's not satisfactory.

Why not combine these two ways of lvling?

I lvl my conju with staffmastery AND mental skills.
And it works quite well!

[e30G]

Good post! At the moment, leveling a conjurer isn't fun at all so I've decided to stay off the game until some improvements are made. Not even the new forts will draw me in until they fix Conjurer grinding.

[Zas_]

Don't worry i got kiled by 3k critical from a barb that was only lvl 50...

http://img607.imageshack.us/f/criticald.png/


On the screenshot i see 2126, still high but not 3k more like 2k.

Back to topic:

After some time of Warmasters, i see following issues:


level 60 is much better for warriors, than archers, than mages regarding fighting
more power points is a good thing imho, BUT some powers have to be nerfed and new powers (defence for warlocks ie.) introduced
balance isn't as modified as i thought, barbs and marx are still OP.
grinding is a real pain for all, but a conj without boosters will suffer too much and leave before 60 for sure.
warmaster quests don't lead to more war, but more grinder ganking and more easy farming, almost no fort wars at the moment...
killing 30 unique alsius is still hard on Horus, showing realm imbalance even more, most of the times ignis quest is finished in much less time than alsius one for me.
daily trip to Fisgael (for me) is just ... boring (see related poll).
many people prefer to grind due to boosters current behavior
Enemy surveillance is somehow weird with new level cap almost everytime "grey", not enough steps to differentiate levels imho.
Warmaster pieces are too heavy (especially for mages/archers), i hope this is a bug...

[LucianDeathshield]

+1

Group exp for killing enemies SHOULD be there. Besides, the whole game is about RvR right? So it should provide some decent exp.. mob grinding should only be for loots and for when there is no war

[JennyfromtheBlock]

killing 30 unique alsius is still hard on Horus, showing realm imbalance even more, most of the times ignis quest is finished in much less time than alsius one for me.

[/LIST]

It isn't that bad. Although I do think this update was geared towards RA and not Horus, I can easily get my 30 Alsius, with lots of time to spare. the other night I finished all 30 in like 1 1/2 hours. But I am playing my Conj and spamming Auras xD

[HidraA]

On the screenshot i see 2126, still high but not 3k more like 2k.


Last time when i cheaked mages had that protection ...ah yes...Energy barier =750.

So in second class of school math look like this:
2126+750=2876..ah well ma bad....not 3k...

[Awrath]

Last time when i cheaked mages had that protection ...ah yes...Energy barier =750.

So in second class of school math look like this:
2126+750=2876..ah well ma bad....not 3k...

Yeah because it was SO obvious in that screen shot that you had energy barrier on you. </sarcasm>

OT:

Agreeing with Aasiora, conju grind is pretty bad at the moment, even more so at the lower levels.

[Kittypretty]

I agree with the OP,

Summom bug is intentionally abused still, and yeah its too easy to do it, reskill and get your zarkit etc.

MY problem howveer is more geared toward player ethics, and mob zones.

I CAN grind find in my sm+mental setup without a summon, just knock/immob/cant attack spells while i use normals.

the problem is the mobs are too sparse, melee vs range means one person has to spam auras if knight, or frantically try to hit the mob once.

Our fighters too silly to realize, instead of hunting alsius/ignis grinders, its just putting MORE retribution on those who do not farm (like me, i get killed 5-20 times every day by the same familiar names, when im either alone, or helping a single player level, is that fair? fun?)

our fighters should block and protect these grind spots, i guarantee they would have a much more challenging fight, as the typical grinder killer groups are filled with these booster whores who got to 60 and now just wanna have some advantage by killing lower levels in pve setups. most of these people are the same in every farm group, won t say names but im sure everyone can see in log, and know they see these particular players lowering themselves to such poor tactics as killing grinders (not all of us can have boosters, did i farm you while you were grinding? common courtesy?) i thought most of these players were decent people but, respect seems to have been lost.

point is, each time you go kill their grinders, who do you think gets payback? and who protects us when youre out in their lands and not in your own?

so either way im screwed, i dont go kill you while grinding, never have, so why keep farming me? some of us cant afford boosters, and ngds compensation wasnt worth any significant xp. so youre just making my time playing unfun, unfair, and not worth playing, does that sound like a game youd wanna play? i have 3 millions xpp to do without a single booster, and likely ill just quit long before then.

I can grind solo fine, providing im not dead every 5 mins by farmer alsius/ignis (which i am)

when i switch to support to help someone level, and earn less xp, and have to constantly spam bless/bless wpn etc on them when they attack a mob, waste of mana (also we die because 2 vs 5 isnt fair)

ok so i get mad now, and want to rage quit because this same group has been killing me, and i try my best to get a huge grp from the idlers at cs,

its a fair fight now, and usually we slaughter them unprepared, just like they did to us.

this can turn into a huge grind group and mean alot of xp for me, and protection.
or they just disperse back to cs to idle and whoever got killed will be back for revenge.

ill log off or stay depending on which option pans out..thats why i dont level.

for the love of god ngd change confuse. youve blown the doors wide open for players saying screw supporting, and going warju...again..sheesh.

our grind spots, more like sheep to slaughter (usually the same groups and names but dont need this to be photo heavy do we :)

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk266/simmyleie/screenshot2011-03-0823_28_16.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk266/simmyleie/screenshot2011-03-0806_49_50.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk266/simmyleie/screenshot2011-03-1006_24_24.jpg

very fun indeed, to be trying to help my friends and be killed by the same 10 people again and again. I think this is my last week and thank you people who keep killing me every day every hour, your "fun" cause me frustration.


PS can u answer my ticket dated FEB 15th???? its under abuse..

[Regnum_Online]

IMHO, Conjurers were fine until the update where they removed the zombie and skeleton summons, and dropped how long summons last to 30-40 seconds.

[Nekudotayim]

Thus, the players who reach level 60 through war will actually be "Warmasters" instead of the "Grindmasters" who've basically murdered 1000000000000 mobs.

I agree. Imho, leveling from lvl 50 to 60 should only be possible by defeating other players during war. This would fit to name of a warmaster. Getting to level 60 by grinding mobs is worth nothing.
All we get from this are people sitting at the bind, chatting with people, kissing their items or running in random directions and those are holding the glorious banner of the holy warmaster. Serious business.

Regards.

[Geev]

I agree. Imho, leveling from lvl 50 to 60 should only be possible by defeating other players during war. This would fit to name of a warmaster. Getting to level 60 by grinding mobs is worth nothing.
All we get from this are people sitting at the bind, chatting with people, kissing their items or running in random directions and those are holding the glorious banner of the holy warmaster. Serious business.

Regards.

This. Until NGD changes it the update will always be known as Grindmasters.

As for the topic, getting conj from 48-50 was not harder than it was for my other classes on any level (knight, 56 and lock, 53).

Here are some grinding tips, based up on what I have been able to observe. I assume everybody scrolls, and if you don't, any system you choose is going to stink.

Observations:

1. A buff only gives you XP for the first mob killed after the buff. However, you do get credit for an unnecessary buff. So if you have nothing better to do, rebuff. For example, an ally has 1 minute left on his bless. You have nothing to do, cast bless again. So even though the bless is totally unnecessary, you still get credit.

2. Heals: You only get XP if you heal while a mob is aggroed. From this it follows that you should almost never use Regen Ally. Only use it if someone is really hurt. What you want to do is cast Heal Ally every mob on at least one player. It doesn't matter if they aren't injured for 500pts. You get XP if they are injured for 300 pts and you heal. Still, don't over heal. Players should always be 10-20% injured so you have something to heal.

I cannot overstress the second point, especially. If you heal a player after the mob is dead it does not count for XP with the next mob the character kills. If you wait till the player aggros the next mob to heal, you will get xp and it accomplishes the same thing.

3. Mana: Try to stay in the center of a large group and keep Mana Communion going. This allows them to kill faster as a plus, and it helps get you xp. Often, Mana Communion by itself is not enough to get XP unless it replenishes a threshold amount of mana. Obviously Mana Communion works better with a large group. If you are suporting only one other player, Synergy bond is probably better.

What goes for heals also applies to synergy bond. Don't cast it unless the target has aggroed a mob.

4. Mana Pylon: This only gets you XP if the pylon actually absorbs damage. If the player kicks a mob and kills it during the kick, it doesn't matter if he is in the pylon, the conj gets no xp. Otherwise, what goes for Communion also goes for Pylon.


General Principles

1. The conj should tell players not to kick or feint, or knock, ivy, or otherwise disable the mob. The conj needs to be able to heal to get good xp, and these CCs just slow down the grind, because hits do more damage. Players should rely on heals, pylons, shieldings and not on CCs, as they would normally do in war.

2. You don't need to grind in a large group. Find yourself a Barb, or a Knight (preferably with Offensive Stance), keep them buffed, and heal ally every mob. You will get tons of XP.

3. Grinding with archers, particularly if there are several, is much inferior to supporting other classes. Supporting locks is ok, but they must not use Barrier.

4. Try to make sure that all players do not use defensive buffs. They must be injured for you to heal. It is ok for knights to aura, since this is the primary way they get XP in large groups, and players still get injured.

5. Don't bother with Mass Regen or Greater Healing.

6. Try to keep a lot of mobs aggroed at once. This gives plenty of opportunities for xp. It is especially true if you have pylon or communion going.

--
Some of these observations may not be completely accurate, but all are pretty darn close to it. There are of course variations on the above principles. You can, for example, grind with archers and just buff them every mob, or insist that archers aggro a ton of mobs and let themselves get hurt, etc.

The nice thing about support conj is that you don't have to contend with the problem of resists. What this means is that a level 30 conj can come to the swamp and cast buffs and heal ally (no communion or pylon required) and get a ton of XP with mobs he couldn't even hit, or hit for 1 point of damage.

[Pnarpa]

Here are some grinding tips, based up on what I have been able to observe. I assume everybody scrolls, and if you don't, any system you choose is going to stink.

Good post on how to support grind.

I haven't used scrolls and have leeched my way up to 55 now. At most points it was easy, you get a lot of xp while supporting a good group. But imo, any class that requires that much information on what they and others should do to get xp effectively, is flawed.

[Geev]

Good post on how to support grind.

I haven't used scrolls and have leeched my way up to 55 now. At most points it was easy, you get a lot of xp while supporting a good group. But imo, any class that requires that much information on what they and others should do to get xp effectively, is flawed.


Yeah, there are some problems with the xp system for conjs, but they are surmountable, I guess is the point. Don't use the term "leeching", however. A conj enables a group to never rest, to hit harder and more accurately, to get more xp faster. This isn't leeching, it is a critical component to any grind.

I'll break it down to six easy principles, in order of importance:

1. Do all your actions when a mob is aggroed, and not between kills.
2. Don't use regen unless really necessary. Use Heal Ally.
3. Tell players not to use defensive buffs
4. Insist that players not CC mobs.
5. Rebuff allies if there is nothing else to do, even if not necessary.
6. Communion and Pylon for large groups, Synergy Bond and protections for small ones.

[e30G]

2. Heals: You only get XP if you heal while a mob is aggroed. From this it follows that you should almost never use Regen Ally. Only use it if someone is really hurt. What you want to do is cast Heal Ally every mob on at least one player. It doesn't matter if they aren't injured for 500pts. You get XP if they are injured for 300 pts and you heal. Still, don't over heal. Players should always be 10-20% injured so you have something to heal.

I cannot overstress the second point, especially. If you heal a player after the mob is dead it does not count for XP with the next mob the character kills. If you wait till the player aggros the next mob to heal, you will get xp and it accomplishes the same thing.

Heals only give you XP if the player hits with a normal after the heal. If he casts a spell (damaging or not) after your heal without hitting with a normal first, you don't get XP.

3. Mana: Try to stay in the center of a large group and keep Mana Communion going. This allows them to kill faster as a plus, and it helps get you xp. Often, Mana Communion by itself is not enough to get XP unless it replenishes a threshold amount of mana. Obviously Mana Communion works better with a large group. If you are suporting only one other player, Synergy bond is probably better.

What goes for heals also applies to synergy bond. Don't cast it unless the target has aggroed a mob.

I always ask my party to use normals only. That way everyone can get some xp. In a big enough group (which you probably have to be using MC in the first place), you shouldn't need to cast spells anyway for damage.

These are my thoughts on this. It's a good guide though. I would add that to save up on repair costs, you can do away with armor too so that you can heal them more.

[Geev]

Heals only give you XP if the player hits with a normal after the heal. If he casts a spell (damaging or not) after your heal without hitting with a normal first, you don't get XP.


Are you sure? Doesn't this mean that you can't get XP by supporting Warlocks, because they only cast spells? If so that simply isn't the case. If you mean non-mage classes, then I will have to verify. Do you mean on the first hit, or do you mean if they kill the mob entirely with e.g. south cross, ripost, etc? Or do you mean, if you heal between kills and then first hit is a spell, you don't get credit? If the last is the case, then healing during aggro solves the problem.

In any event, most of the time a mob is killed with a mixture of spells and normals, so I haven't found this to be an issue. I'll test when I next grind my conj.




I always ask my party to use normals only. That way everyone can get some xp. In a big enough group (which you probably have to be using MC in the first place), you shouldn't need to cast spells anyway for damage.

These are my thoughts on this. It's a good guide though. I would add that to save up on repair costs, you can do away with armor too so that you can heal them more.

Using normals-only for a large group is a very reasonable suggestion, for XP distribution reasons alone, regardless of the aforementioned, possible bug. Your suggestion about armor-removal (to save repair costs) is an interesting one. I never thought to take it to the next logical step. As long as the conj can keep the damage under control it makes perfect sense for players who don't use repair hammers.

[AariEv]

@Geev

Very nice guide and though it's nothing really new to me, it should be shared to others. Concerning spells and xp, you should try supporting a warlock one of these days, Geev. Then you'll see how much xp you get (or how much xp you don't get). Auras are the only way I'm able to leech xp from mages and classes who use spells during grinding. This is the bug that I described here:

Conjurer Support Grinding/RvR

Support has been bugged ever since I started playing Regnum and that was one year ago. Whenever a conju heals/buffs an ally in war/grind, he or she is supposed to receive rps/xp for contributing. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen the majority of the time. In fact, there is a simple way to stop a support class from "leeching" off of another player: all the other player needs to do is use a spell.

For example, I can buff/heal one warrior that then kills 4 players and I will get no regnum points. I don't get any points because the warrior killed all 4 players with a spell. Once a spell is used, all points that I deserve for support disappears and I get nothing. This bug should be fixed as soon as possible. Perhaps then we'll see more support grinders who can level without a big party. As it is, the only way I can get xp from players is if I skill for auras/buffs/areas and other spells that gather lots of xp/rp. I shouldn't have to do this; I shouldn't have to reskill for protection dome, mana pylon, mana communion, and level 5 buffs just to get xp from players. Maybe this is not NGD's intent, but I believe I should be able to get some points for having my normal support setup that usually helps my zerg more than any other.

From what I've seen, it seems that the only way for a level 50+ conjurer to get xp is by grinding with a large party with auras/areas/buffs. Perhaps this is fine on Ra as the server has a large population, but on Horus and other servers such as Nemon, it's not. At least in syrtis, large grinding parties (around 8 people) are rare. Because of the warmasters update, many players decided to form large parties, but now the grinding has slowed down and these large parties are becoming more scarce (at least during the timezone that I play in).

Believe me, even with the ridiculous support tactics that need to be used, I'd still be grinding frequently trying make it to 60......if there was a party to grind with. This is another thing i mentioned. I'm not sure how things are in Alsius/Ignis, but in Syrtis, grinding parties have slowly become more and more scarce (during my main timezone at least). Of course, I could organize my own grind parties if I wanted to, I'm sure, but picture the situation for conjurers in servers with a smaller population than that Horus (ex. Nemon). I wouldn't imagine that there's lots of group grinding there, and the experience rankings make me believe it even more.

Lastly, like I said above, I don't think I should have to reskill to a "leech setup" just to get support xp/rp when with my normal setup, I actually help players more. I should be able to group grind using my chosen support spells....and still get points. Unfortunately, this is not the case because of the bug we've been talking about. Test it if you need evidence.

[ieti]

With levels maybe after 52-54 it gets easier to have a leech - grind setup. Right now i got:

- Bless, Bless Weapon, Bear Strength, Heals, Regenerate, Life Saver, Ress to support parties or single targets. Usually i cycle 3 enchants on all targets and get a good XP.
- If there are no good parties to leech from i use Arcane Missle, Blaze, Picking Ivy,Beetle, Mana Burn to grind.

Some parties are good only to buff and support. In others if there are already conjurers you can use mental to land a spell to get XP too. Dunno for Ignis or Alsius, but only place i see to be possible to leech with auras is Stone Henge. At Orc Camp and Falls party got to move constantly, so it gets harder. Enchants are sometimes too busy to use and you miss alot of XP because of cooldowns and mana problems.

As Galynn sayed it is preferred to use normals without buffs and every party member to make 1 hit. This way everyone gets XP from every mob and GRP is good.

Yes lately good parties are more rare, so it gets harder.

[Geev]

Aarisewan,

I will attempt to verify the bug you describe. However, whenever I grind my warlock with a conj I always ask if they are getting good xp and they always say yes. I don't use barrier, aggro a ton of mobs and let them kick my butt, and don't CC.

As for the lack of large grind groups with syrtis/horus, I can't help you there. Usually in the swamp there are a few iggies at any time of the day.

Stop using the word "leeching"! ;)

[_Enio_]

very fun indeed, to be trying to help my friends and be killed by the same 10 people again and again. I think this is my last week and thank you people who keep killing me every day every hour, your "fun" cause me frustration.


Hey, dont lie, we moved on.

Sure its frustrating to be killed while grinding. Evryone has to roam around to get their quests done when theres no war or not enough mates up for a fortwar.

Get your hunters to spot those roaming groups and it can be quite fun.

[tikinho]

Enio once you camped me 2 hours at Imperia beach stop lying that you move away. :P

[Zordak]

Are you sure? Doesn't this mean that you can't get XP by supporting Warlocks, because they only cast spells?

No warlocks "only uses spells" when levelling. They keep their target selected and do normal hits in between.


Do you mean on the first hit, or do you mean if they kill the mob entirely with e.g. south cross, ripost, etc? Or do you mean, if you heal between kills and then first hit is a spell, you don't get credit? If the last is the case, then healing during aggro solves the problem.


He is talking about the first hit right after being buffed. ALL buffs only account for the next hit. The target profits for 2 minutes from an enchantment. The conjurer only gains xp for the next *normal* hit.

The bug he is talking about is present in the game for about as long as levelling exists, you will find multiple reports of it on the forums, with plenty of ppl confirming it. It is in fact not the xp distribution routine that is flawed in disfavour of conj, its this very bug stealing lots of xp.

Z.

[HidraA]

With levels maybe after 52-54 it gets easier to have a leech - grind setup. Right now i got:

- Bless, Bless Weapon, Bear Strength, Heals, Regenerate, Life Saver, Ress to support parties or single targets. Usually i cycle 3 enchants on all targets and get a good XP.


Usual with this setup partys will reject me cose i lich too much from they xp and if they use boosters is a waste.

- If there are no good parties to leech from i use Arcane Missle, Blaze, Picking Ivy,Beetle, Mana Burn to grind.
.
This setup it's damn slow to grind even with boosters

My solution it's to give a extra +XP for conj that heals partys and not to lich from grinders cose they will reject me.
Example:
If a mob give usual 200 XP conj to recive:30XP +100XP GRP+50XP CONJ
And healed to recive 80XP + 100 GRP....
(ofc this values can be others was just a random ex)
Maybe this will need a new feature..but... but..better like actual that is usual +60 XP for conj...


Also i don't want warjurers back and this can be best option.

[_Enio_]

Usual with this setup partys will reject me cose i lich too much from they xp and if they use boosters is a waste.


The key in party grind is that evryone gets xp, the amount doesnt matter alot since the group xp will make up for it.

Best group setup i found so far was:

1 Marks: Does the pulling job, 1 hit on each mob around, whole group will sit at his butt. Best is to let the marks with highest dmg do this so he'll have them aggro till theyre dead, makes it easier for the conj. He will tank the mobs.
2 random DD: barbs/knights/hunters/marks doing each 1/2 hit on the mobs, make sure to do just minimal amount needed for xp (barbs no berzerk / 1h/low weapon..
1 Knight: Aura leeching
1 Conj: Auras heals

Key is to balance the xp gained so you end up with the maximum grp XP for the whole group, if you see theres not max grp xp you should try to do less dmg/aura.

with 200% scoll 450k+ / 60 mins at lvl 58-60 monsters at Imp Beach.

[ieti]

There is no reason for parties to reject you. You provide buffs and heal, mana them. As Enio says if everyone hits normal XP is not so big, but GRP is maxed. Mob killing speed is maxed too. So party do not benefit from normal XP, but from GRP and mob kills. Grinding speed is fast, and it is fun. There is no XP stealing.

Player that aggros can be conjurer / warjurer too. He have better defense and can sustain more damage.

[_Enio_]

Player that aggros can be conjurer / warjurer too. He have better defense and can sustain more damage.

Of Course, any range can, just marks is the best in sense of maxrange and defense against those small hits you generally get from monsters (more armor which will also scale better with Heroic presence and when things really get tight evasive tactics+acro bring the mob hits to the minimum aswell)

Damage is as said quite irrelevant as long as you can get in xp range with 1 hit(350-400 dmg).

[Seher]

There is no reason for parties to reject you. You provide buffs and heal, mana them. As Enio says if everyone hits normal XP is not so big, but GRP is maxed. Mob killing speed is maxed too. So party do not benefit from normal XP, but from GRP and mob kills. Grinding speed is fast, and it is fun. There is no XP stealing.

GRP points make up for your exp loss but they cannot cover the decrease of drop chance you get when grinding in groups, so there's still a reason to grind alone.


Warriors aren't suitable for bigger grinding groups by the way, they won't ever hit the mob :P Conjurers aren't necessary, too, in fact it's quite useless having to share your exp even more... (The grp bonus won't increase very much beyond the bonus you get when 3 players hit the mob)
Only warriors need conjurers.

[Latan]

No warlocks "only uses spells" when levelling. They keep their target selected and do normal hits in between.

i landed something like 30 or 40 TOTAL normal hits grinding my lock from 50 to 60 (only on mobs with 50-100 hp to avoid wasting my mana/CD for a 600-1000 dmg spell).
so yes, some locks use only spells

[TomLukman]

Grinding a low level Conjurer is a major pain, at least until you reach level 25. Slow spell casting, low staff damage and almost useless summons. This (along with some other new features of Warmasters) sort of gives the impression NGD wants to make us pay to get level 45 characters.

People often have no choice but to seek out help from other Conjurers or Hunters. Frankly, I'm getting tired of "Please bring your summon/pet to help me level" requests.

As for higher levels, I was a big fan of using support setups for grinding my conjurer. I did that from cca. level 45 - 55. Supporting worked really well, but like Aasiora said, grinding groups got scarce.

This made me have to put up with grinding using combat from 55-60. Here are my tips on the matter:
- forget summons - they are a waste of power points. In war they also get in the way because they are huge (golems). I had many people die in fights because I couldn't select them and heal because golems were in the way! (Hunters - for same reason please use small size pets)
- use mental powers (arcane (5), blaze (5) and some crowd control. I used Ivy (5) and Beetle Swarm (5) because they cause damage, stop mobs and penetrate enemy DI (in case you get attacked). These spells are enough to keep you alive and healthy (with energy barrier) and will make you kill mobs quickly.
- get some healing for yourself and for allies

With things above you actually get a decent general setup you can use for grinding and/or war. You can add Mana Pylon (good to spam in any combat situation), Steel skin (I used it at high levels in case I got attacked), DI, Rez... and other spells depending on what your level allows. Actually, my current war setup is not much different from what used to be my grind setup (in the end I just added dispells and tweaked my spell trees).

I used to grind in pairs or small groups with this setup, it works really well and experience got gathered quickly.

I also recommend getting dispell(3) if you can afford it for your grind setup and practice your reflexes - how quickly you can dispell an ally who gets cursed by mobs (example: stuned by golems, knocked by lions or aquantis). You'll save a lot of lives in the war zone if you train yourself to notice debuffs and dispell allies quickly.

[Minorian]

- forget summons - they are a waste of power points. In war they also get in the way because they are huge (golems). I had many people die in fights because I couldn't select them and heal because golems were in the way!

Agree with assessment on low lvl conju grinding, but cant agree with this. While they are nowhere as powerful as before, what are you going to put the points into? Youll max mental, max mana control, you only really need 15 healing, anymore is overkill, and......some sorcery? You just dont have anything else useful to use.

[Punti_X]

Would not agree with you NMI. Summons are not good in 55+ battle setup. Points are needed in enc tree for disp/mass 5. With summon 19 impossible. Healing tree on 15? Good joke. Ress 4 in battle? Better go cs.

[Minorian]

Would not agree with you NMI. Summons are not good in 55+ battle setup. Points are needed in enc tree for disp/mass 5. With summon 19 impossible. Healing tree on 15? Good joke. Ress 4 in battle? Better go cs.
This made me have to put up with grinding using combat from 55-60. Here are my tips on the matter:
- forget summons - they are a waste of power points. In war they also get in the way because they are huge (golems). I had many people die in fights because I couldn't select them and heal because golems were in the way! (Hunters - for same reason please use small size pets)
He (and I) were talking about a grind setup. In war there is no reason to take summons though, I agree with that. He includes that they are also useless in war though, so I guess we're both right there :p

[Kittypretty]

removed because of off topic and immature posters. have a nice easter all btw :)

[HidraA]

.....

Sample ..conjurer was just forgot once with Warmasters and rise cap lvl to 60..and i bet there will not be soon some changes...maybe NGD has they reason to do this like always it's something behind...noone knows...maybe to waste more boosters ...but for sure i bet this year nothing will change...i just givet up to play conj..i don't want to waste money on a lost cause....

[NotScias]

...I...I...walloftext...I...I...

http://wiki.nobleme.com/~nobleme/wiki/images/3/3f/Tldr.jpeg

[Latan]

http://wiki.nobleme.com/~nobleme/wiki/images/3/3f/Tldr.jpeg

valorious for killing literally 4-5 players in a row with nothing but brigantine gear

LOL http://multiplayer.it/forum/images/faccine/rotfl.gif

[Aid_The_Conjurer]

Thanks Aasiora. Great post.
I'll be a WM level 60 by winter with no effort.
My suggestion is to keep grinding on.