Conjurer vs Warlock or Hunter 1v1 in wz

[Dubhghaill]

Please don't turn this thread into a "Locks rule" kind of thread. I am seeking tactics to help survivability against a lock or hunter playing as a conj. There may be other threads like this, but i have not found a skillset combo that will really help.

I have managed to kill all other classes but I think I am in desperate need for some advice to have more success.

Is it quite simply that the conjurer is not meant to be able to compete against these two classes and thats why i should grind with someone? I only hope that whoever attacks me is of a lower level and/or makes a few poor spell choices for me to have a chance. Locks seldom venture out alone unless you're Heph. but i think you can see my point.

All i can think of is hit the hunter with as many damaging spells after being jumped, use an ivy before HP/MP gets too low, run behind a tree/rock, dance around it for a bit, then battle is back after waiting up to 35 seconds.... and your chances are pretty good after that (if you're still alive and if they don't run away).

I think lock is perfectly suited to kill a conj, i think even a perfect setup anyone will struggle. But all i can think of is beetle (to stop a freeze etc), ivy, and run away for up to 40 seconds if you can. Under MoD, the above won't even work, and a lock won't give u a chance to run.

Warlock - Darkness or MoD = Death
Hunter - Confuse + Ambush = Death

Intelligent replies only please. I have to accept that a conj is primarily a support class, but it has the capability of large DPS. SM setup with golem is the only other solution i could think of that may help, but a half switched on lock would still win.

[Aries202]

Best you can do is beetle an archer, and mana burn+energy borrow same applies against a warlock. After that I think you can kill them with a few skills chained with silence, than will domain.

[NSer]

I guess u says about lvl5 darkness and confuse.... But from over 9000 hunters i met only few using it and ofc only 1-2 locks in whole horus use darkness 5 :P.
About MoD..... is some1 use it in pvp Oo?
About ways to kill:waht Agrik said.

[Jimaklass]

About MoD..... is some1 use it in pvp Oo?

I have no hesitations in using MoD against marksmen, especially when no trees/rocks are around. BoW(5) from 50 meters and confuse at any lvl are way too strong to deal with when you cant hide. As a lock i only have this baby at hands, so call me a noob (that won't be a lie anyway :P)

[standistortion]

I have no hesitations in using MoD against marksmen
Off topic, most good PvP locks I have see gets MoD in as soon as they can againsed most classes.

As for conj againsed other classes, imho you have little chance at PvP. There are some good warjurers in RO but other classes hit a lot harder. Regenerate might fill in the gap between barrier and sanctuary cooldowns but you will need every cc at its max and a lot of skill.

That isnt really the point of RO, I think the real skill in the game is players working together to be tougher and stronger than they would be as a group of individuals.

[makarios68]

Off topic, most good PvP locks I have see gets MoD in as soon as they can againsed most classes.


I'm not sure about this. The best test of a lock's skill is to 1v1 without MOD IMO. Imagine a 1v1 with 2 locks on MOD - handbags at dawn FTW!

Anyway, my opinion on the OP's questions:

The problem of a conj against lock can be very similar to the struggle that locks have against each other: its all about who gets the first cc skill landed.

If you can get the first will domain off, you have enough cc skills to finish off the lock, provided luck is on your side (evades, etc) - wd has half the cast time of meteor so u have a chance to cast it first if the lock gets his distances wrong.

Let the summon deal the main dmg, while you keep the lock under control with will domain, beetle and silence. It's been a while since i fought a lock with a conj, but that worked out fine for me :) .

Against a hunter you need to keep up yr staff mastery dmg skills, and your heal over time, then if they surprise you with knock and confuse, you should still be able to stand up and beetle them, deal some dmg with staff and summon, and hopefully outlive confuse to cast steel skin, will domain, silence etc - (then watch him run away :) )

[Dubhghaill]

Cheers guys for the quick reply. I think i have to accept that the warjurer days are pretty much gone. I still grind alone most of the time and have a very offensive setup on my conj to steam role mobs, but still keep a few pvp only spells just in case. It is primarily the ganking hunters that I suppose I have mainly had issues with, but this is one of their strengths in the game, what they enjoy doing, and I have to live with that.
It could be a good thing and might get me to be more social and assist people more with a grind support setup. I just find i get much more XP alone. I refuse to go full support though, the pleasure in killing someone is too great :D
I think we all have to play to our strengths in the game, I was just hoping the conj could face up a little better.

(Forum is still open for anyone who has had any success) I nearly killed Foot-lose (annoying little Horus Alsius dwarf hunter who is higher level, (you might be nice in real life)) after he jumped me, but i think he was playing with me and waiting to see how he was going before confusing (he was losing until he confused).

Until then, obstacles are my friend.

[Dubhghaill]

Well after a complete overhaul of my setup I have found a bit more success. I thought i would share and give other conjurers some possible ideas. I can still grind quickly but offers some much needed (though offensive) protection. It gives 6 attack spells and will guarantee the enemy will have no mana, plus the damage increase in normal hits. Contructive criticism is accepted :D

Mental(19) - arcane missile(5), beetle(5), blaze(5), ivy(5)

Mana control(19) - Barrier(5), Mana burn(5), Ambitious sacrifice (4), Arcane devotion(5)

Staff Mastery(19) - Fire Mag(5), Ice Mag(5), lightning Mag(5), arcane accel(5), evendims fury(5)

Enchantments(13) - Dispel(3)

Life(15) - Heal self(4), Regen self(3)

[NSer]

I think it should be moved to Conj setups topic.... it's 1st
2nd: U lack passives in SM setup :P. And main u lost main conj spell that makes warju not so easy opponent for fight.

[Torcida]

Best you can do is beetle an archer, and mana burn+energy borrow same applies against a warlock. After that I think you can kill them with a few skills chained with silence, than will domain.

what he said

[Latan]

Well after a complete overhaul of my setup I have found a bit more success. I thought i would share and give other conjurers some possible ideas. I can still grind quickly but offers some much needed (though offensive) protection. It gives 6 attack spells and will guarantee the enemy will have no mana, plus the damage increase in normal hits. Contructive criticism is accepted :D

Mental(19) - arcane missile(5), beetle(5), blaze(5), ivy(5)

Mana control(19) - Barrier(5), Mana burn(5), Ambitious sacrifice (4), Arcane devotion(5)

Staff Mastery(19) - Fire Mag(5), Ice Mag(5), lightning Mag(5), arcane accel(5), evendims fury(5)

Enchantments(13) - Dispel(3)

Life(15) - Heal self(4), Regen self(3)

your level is too low to allow you to use effectively a SM setup.
offensively you lack passive staves dmg, defensively will domain, mind push, silence, mind blank, karma mirror, steel skin.

how do you think you can kill any ranged opponent if the only way to stop him is a 40 sec CD spell that lasts 8 sec? anyone could CC chain you forever without giving you the chance to fight back or in a more simple way he could stay out of your range (25? 30?) untill your buffs wears off, then killing you with no problems (you have to cast 6 buffs with no CS staff. i suppose you use a full damage staff to deal a decent dmg, so you can do nothing but buffing for 11-12 seconds)

[Daretobeconju]

I'm sorry I got in on this so late. I used the following setup around lvl 50 when grinding and also when I needed that last quest kill to get 30/30. Let me give you the build, then the logic behind it:

Mental 19: arcane missile 5, beetle 5, blaze 5, ivy 5, will domain 5, silence 3, time master 5, sultars devouring mass 5

Mana 19: barrier 5, mana burn 5, sacrifice 5, devotion 5

Life 11(yes, 11): heal self 3, regen self 3

Summon 19: Golem 5

Sorcery 15: Mind Blank 4

After lvl 50, increase heals then silence and mind blank

Here is why:
Grind is simple, mana burn, ivy or will or beetle, missile, blaze, maybe another missile - mob dead

But for the classes you asked about...
Hunter (no pet because they ambush from camo): by the time you know what hit you, you will be confused and knocked. In this time, your golem will be attacking them. Hopefully, you kept up Devotion, Barrier, and Mind Blank while grinding/hunting. They can Distracting Shot your golem, which will buy you some time when they aren't hitting you, otherwise your Golem will be doing dmg the whole time. While down, make sure you have them selected by rotating your camera. They will try to get behind you to Stunning Fist you when you come out of Ambush. If they get all that on you... you will die. If you don't die... you won't be able to will domain or silence for 30-35 seconds because of Confuse, so start with Beetle. They will try to get close to Stunning Fist you once Beetle wears off if they didn't do it before, so Ivy them after Mana Burn and Missile. Luckily, most hunters will Confuse before Ambush, and Ambush has a 30 sec cd. This means that Confuse should wear off right around the time their Ambush is ready again. This 30 seconds from 1st Ambush until 2nd is 8 sec you are down because of Ambush itself, maybe 8 more from Stunning Fist, 9 sec Beetle w/.75 sec cast time, and 8 sec Ivy(some overlap casting Ivy during Beetle). That is between 25 and 33 seconds accounted for. You have to avoid Stunning fist until Confuse wears off if he didn't cast after Ambush, then you get the chance to start your cc chain. It will be close and he may Ambush you again. If he gets the 2nd Ambush, good luck! If you surive that or get Will Domain off before it, you can then cc chain him until he's dead. I always liked Will Domain, Mana Burn, Sultar, Time Master and let the DoT's do their job. Get behind, then Silence, Beetle, Ivy(Beetle and Ivy will be off cd by now). Will Domain will cd in this time. While Time Master is in effect, rebuff and heal as necessary.
If Son of the Wind is cast at any point, your chances drop dramatically.


Hunter with pet: You should see him coming, so it's basically standard PvP. If he casts Son of the Wind, do your best to run away until it wears off. This is highly unlikely, and you will probably die. His knocks are range 25. He should try to Ambush first so you can't cast on him. You have 35% chance to resist, but that is luck. You can cast faster than him, though. I usually ignore pet at first. Go right for Silence so he can't cc you(its range 25 and .25 sec faster than Ambush with Devotion). Run toward him during gcd. Try to get Mana Burn off. This will get you close enough to Will Domain. Cast Sultar and run toward again, Time Master him and the pet when you are close. This will buy time to rebuff and get behind him. Time Master's 12 sec and Will Domain 8, so that covers Will Domain's cd and its ready to use again by the time he recovers from freeze. Get off Mana Burn again and Blaze. Then Ivy and Beetle together.

If you are ambushed, your chances are probably less than average of winning. Regular PvP, you have a good shot.

Lock: He will Meteor first. They always Meteor first. Your best bet is to strafe up to them until they Meteor, then try to outrun them until it wears off. This puts you on even ground with cc's. An even lvl lock may only have cc's on lvl 4 favoring dmg spells. This also works to your advantage, as well as resisting 1 in 3 of their cc's. Your chances are about even if you resist or outrun Meteor. Try to Silence then Will Domain as you approach. After Will Domain, Mana Burn then Sultar. Just get close so you can use Time Master to rebuff and get behind them unless they MoD. Luckily, MoD has a longer cast time than any cc spell. Silence first, run up and Will Domain. Cast Mana Burn, Sultar, then Time Master. Get behind and be ready to Beetle or Will Domain again. Always best to get Will Domain if the timing was right.
If after they Meteor you, they land Silence first, you are dead. At least you have a chance, though.

A warju/grindju's chance of winning is by surviving, not dealing tons of damage. Time master is underused in this regard(sometimes called a noob spell). When attacked by warriors, I run for 10 sec then stop and TM. Afterward, I usually mount and go! :-) It can save you from tree huggers too. For a class that relies on killing over longer periods of time though, its best to be able to buy yourself that time.

That's what I did and I survived some of the time. I actually did better against hunters with my conj than my lock while grinding. The resists make a big difference. Hope it helps.

[animalartist]

A warju/grindju's chance of winning is by surviving, not dealing tons of damage. Time master is underused in this regard(sometimes called a noob spell). When attacked by warriors, I run for 10 sec then stop and TM. Afterward, I usually mount and go! :-) It can save you from tree huggers too. For a class that relies on killing over longer periods of time though, its best to be able to buy yourself that time.

That's what I did and I survived some of the time. I actually did better against hunters with my conj than my lock while grinding. The resists make a big difference. Hope it helps.


You run?
I say bring it on and at least try and take as many with me. :)


At 50 and warju/grind i had most long range spells and summons of lick and zarkit. Although i had golem for mobs i found the golem too weak and useless in a fight. Plus with zark and lich you always have a summons ready to go.
I also used the passive, combat and a good damage, fast staff.

[Daretobeconju]

At 50 and warju/grind i had most long range spells and summons of lick and zarkit. Although i had golem for mobs i found the golem too weak and useless in a fight. Plus with zark and lich you always have a summons ready to go.
I also used the passive, combat and a good damage, fast staff.

A lot of people have spoken the benefits of zark and lich, but I find that many times you can't summon them when needed because you are knocked or dizzied. I always opted for the golem because he's always there. He may not do a lot of dmg, but he offers another target and given how long he stays around, he does more damage over his lifespan.

As for staff mastery, I found it really kicks in around lvl 54 when you can have all buffs and still skill beetle, will domain, and ivy, so you can keep mobs away. I always include Dragon's Blood with the SM buffs for added dmg. But... SM doesn't do very well in war.

And for running from barbs... if I'm grinding and low on life, I have no shame in running. If I'm full on life, I still try to outrun their UM unless they catch me off guard. Often it only takes 3 hits from a barb to kill a conj. That means you die in the duration of 1 kick or feint. I don't see enough reason to cast cc's if they have 90% resist, better to try to wait out their buff. TM's area 10 freeze lets you choose your ground and you can cast it without targeting.

[animalartist]

A lot of people have spoken the benefits of zark and lich, but I find that many times you can't summon them when needed because you are knocked or dizzied. I always opted for the golem because he's always there. He may not do a lot of dmg, but he offers another target and given how long he stays around, he does more damage over his lifespan.
.

Its good to have different opinions :)

[Dubhghaill]

Nice input Daretobeconju. I am happy to hear of any good combos to give any conj a fighting chance. I have honestly never even considered using SDM due to the poor ratings I have heard on other forums. Maybe I should do more spell testing instead of listening to advice more often :D
I am considering even throwing a lvl5 zombie or imp into the mix and see what type of dmg i get. Please let me know if you have tested this for output dmg. I know what people think of them but they still work under confuse, are cheap on mana, and although weak they are still essentially a DoT if i get knocked. Take around 3 seconds of travel time for them, and u get 10 seconds of attack with imp, and 15 seconds from Zombies (plus your golem). At any one time (aside from cast speeds and spell duration) we can use the following DoT's, and all under confuse:
1) Golem OR Zark OR Lich
2) imp OR Zombie
3) Mana burn
4) Beetle swarm
5) SDM
6) Splinter wall (never used personally)

A well timed will domain or Time Master could really do some dmg with these going.

Keep the ideas coming!

[Daretobeconju]

With the number of dispells out there, both conj and lock, DoT's benefit greatly by being followed with a freeze. SDM has low dmg, but over a very long time. It has often killed my opponent even after I'm dead because it just keeps going and going. I never had an issue with mana so I like it as a good total damage spell.

I dropped blaze for splinter wall around lvl 55. Similar range and more damage. Plus, if you are that close, you only want to have to cast 1 or 2 spells before you get more range. At lvl 60, I definitely used this combo...
Will Domain, run up and Eve's Fury, Splinter, Ivy, and back up.
In tower fights, I would buff and run up with the warriors, then cast Eve's and Splinter. As conju, you don't have access to many area spells, and the ones you do are centered on you. The only way to use them is to run up when someone is knocked or have a captive audience like in a tower, gate, or fort door.

I did do some testing of zombies and imps when I hit lvl 60. I was curious if they would have somehow been levelled like zark/lich/golem to lvl 60 mobs. Unfortunately, after running to herb when ignis had it and casting both on a barb, both on a lock, and both on an archer... I died 3 times and never saw any change in their life. I was casting only the summons and knocks to test. It isn't the most thorough testing, but I figured if 10 lvl 60 imps attacked someone, I might be the new OP warju in town. It just didn't work that way, I'm sorry to say.

Just incase you never heard this advice... always have insightful skilled. You don't need lvl 5, 1 or 2 is just fine. If keeps spells like Mind Blank and Arcance Devotion going so you don't lose them for a second or 2 while you recast. That was posted somewhere else in the forum and I've found it to be great advice. Also, if you grind staff mastery, it makes your buffs last longer :-)

Lastly, although I never used it, karma mirror looks like it would be helpful while confused. You can only keep it up 50% of the time, but a 30% return of damage is still damage.

[Dubhghaill]

Since you are lvl 60 the imp/zombie test seems accurate enough. I wouldn't expect their damage would greatly impact on the fight, but it would be nice if they would impact somehow. We are conjurers after all.
Locks seem to get in nice and close once they get on top of you, so a relatively early splinter wall to deal between 600-1200 dmg while you sit out a cc combo would be better than nothing. Mind you I would say he would just backup if he noticed it was cast or being injured by it.
oooooo you skill evendims. Can't say I would skill SM in wars, and I discovered it can be not so good when you grind. A hunter jumped me, I cast Beetle once i got up from ambush, charged in as he stood there doing normals, cast evendims and about 3 mobs helped the hunter kill me.... FAIL! lol My own fault, but you have to be selective with it. He would have had a laugh. If i had time to cast sanctuary(lvl1) and wasn't confused I could have turned the tide and redirected the agro though.....

[Imago-Thunderfist]

Don't underestimate Mind Blank, it gives good protection against MoD, if I have to chose between Mind Blank (5) and summons (5) i chose MB, as a lvl 50 warju i prefer :
19 Mental
19 Mana Control
19 Srocery
13 Enchantments
15 Life.
And yes, i don't use summons, why not? Because Sultar's Dev Mass is OP, really, it did 91 damage a second on a normal lock, that's 1820 damage... and for knights/barbs Mana Burn (5) works better than a summon.