Why videos? The logic behind making gameplay videos

[esp_tupac]

This is a discussion regarding whether or not we should judge a player's personal skill based on videos he makes. Below is my response to a player who thinks alenox is not THE best marksman in RO and who thinks pvp videos can not provide the proof needed to justify the claim that alenox is THE best marks. I wanna hear ppl's opinions on this :) Thank you.



My response:

Videos are the best representation of a player's personal skills because they are not biased, not subjective and simply pure facts. Alenox is able to record and publish his "best" gameplay moments because he's had these moments. You can only capture something that is already there. No marksman has made a video that surpass Alenox's in terms of personal skills being portrayed in it because there is no marksman that is more skilled than Alenox. Look at the views, ratings of alenox’s videos and the subscribers. He is the best marksman in RO and the facts are undeniable.

if you think you are better than alenox/his marksman, or if you think you are the best of your class, why not make a video of yourself to prove it? Editing and uploading is easy. Only the content of the video is tricky cuz it is directly associated with how good you really are as a player.

If you got the skillz, videos will capture them. if you got the skillz, you don't have to worry about not getting epic fights! besides,we don’t care if the fights are epic or not. Because what people are really looking for in a “pvpish” gameplay video are how the player switch spell bars, his reaction time under different circumstances, his hand reflexes, his eye-hand coordination in intense combat, his spell choices in live time as it happens, his strategies, the way he strafes/turns/moves, the way he execute each spell, his setup etc, all of which contribute a player's combat efficiency and thus his personal skill.

Videos are the ultimate medium in showcasing a player’s true skill because it shows the actual user interface that is able to tell you everything you need to know about that player. Also, keep in mind that these fights we see on alenox and gestern’s videos are not as easy as they look. Thousands of hours of combat experience are needed to get an in-depth understanding of the class you play before you can even start developing a setup that fit your own play style. Mudpidz/alenox and Gestern both have more than 3 years of gameplay experience in RO and what you see on their videos are the results of years of research and development. We don’t see any better videos than alenox and gestern because ppl have not got personal skills required to make them, not because ppl don’t want to make them. Those are just excuses. As I was saying, capturing and editing a vid is easy, question is have you got the personal skills and confidence to make a pvpish vid.

Imo making a gameplay vid of yourself would be the final stage in becoming the best of your class. All great players would eventually make themselves known through videos because they have something to show and ofc it is the most accurate way to determine who is more skilled than the other. I mean, by comparing videos of 2 players of the same class, you can tell right off the bat who ‘s more skilled than the other right? I can tell if a player is good or not in the first 10 sec of a video. or say, if a warlock has combat mode toggled on when he’s walking he is a noob. All those small details would tell !

[-Drv-]

Could you link please the post you are referring to? Just to see where those critics come from, maybe he's just a troll or an envious player.
Alenox is a top player regardless the class he's using, even though i prefer him with his archers. He has an extremely high technique and an excellent knowledge of the game.
But his also aware of this and he doesn't miss a chance to remark it so, during the last time, he managed to attract any kind of troll in this forum.

About your response:
Not every player is intrested in recording his game sessions, there are no videos of arguello, fakuu, jdm, lucky, ect... and probably on horus no one has ever heard their names but they are top players too.
If a player want to prove to be the best is quite simple, he has just to be the best in game, not on youtube.

Even though i'm often happy to see them you are giving to much importance to the videos despite to the ingame action and a post like this in the spanish forum would have created an incredible flame war.
Creating a post like this delegitimizes the true skill of Alenox because the fanatic tone affect the credibility, it seems that you are a fan more that an impartial viewer and this makes the obvious (Alenox top player skill) seems suspicious.*

There is also an alternative way to discover who's the best but it's extremely dangerous
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Kris/hate.png
*i hope that is clear the meaning of these words because they may seem a personal attack while they are not.

[Raindance]

So this is what a heph rage looks like... :eek:

[Wield_II]

u mad? xD

----

[esp_tupac]

Could you link please the post you are referring to? Just to see where those critics come from, maybe he's just a troll or an envious player.
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Kris/hate.png
*i hope that is clear the meaning of these words because they may seem a personal attack while they are not.

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=79553&page=2
here is the link to the post i was referring to

[-Drv-]

Just because he's able to record and publish his best gameplay moments ?
I'm not saying he isn't good but that's too easy to say someone is the best just according to a few chosen and mostly PvPish extracts and without considering all the non-recording players from all the servers.
On topic : Nice vid ! I would love to see a single horus marks like you attempting to try something else than max range autoshoot.
That's not the case of a troll or an envious player as i supposed, also his comment is not against Alenox but against your assumption that videos are the only way to judge a player.
I still don't understad your reaction to his comment.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Scias makes a fair point, almost anyone can make themselves look like a very good player in videos, we've all had fights where we've come out with a win against heavy odds, and showing those fights alone is not a true representation of ability.

For every 1 fight you win against the odds, you may have lost 2, you just don't show those in your video :)

As it happens, Alenox IS a very good player. And that does come through in his videos, but a narrow slice of fights chosen by the recorder are obviously not a true representation of their performance in game. Simply because no ones going to put that time they got ganked by a hunter 10 levels below them in their shiny pvp video.

[Tigerious]

Let's add that on this video it seems they are 4-5 lvl 60 against almost all easy targets (I noticed only one as "normal")

[-Kalid-]

Many people think they are pro, but no, especially marksmens.. they suck when you see them play without videos, like i see alenox online sometimes and he sucks terribly, i think he is lucky in those videos, and other marksmen have good drops and bow (even dragon ammy) which makes them pro, I have to say videos suck, if you want to show your talent, do it without those stupid edit videos, where you can put your best moments and remove the ones you suck in it.

For me there is no best player, it's just if you are lucky or not, once you see an enemy very smart and the other time you see him very stupid, Don't judge players from their videos, it's just fake, I killed 5 vs 1 but i was very lucky though, and sometimes i die when we are 2 vs 1, who knows, it's how lucky you are. :)

[ArienN]

well,if he is THE best marks,can you explain me the 2 HUGE mistakes i found while first time i watched the "9vs1" video:

1. 14:28: he casted winterstoke at the knight to stop/dismount him,ok,but then,after freeze ended he instant casts BoW. Every "experienced" player know,that u get knocked after dismount + dizzy effect doesnt work while knocked!!!

2. 14:52: After the knock on the knight ended,the knight used precise block,which he tried to hide by turning around. Every "experienced" player know: thats your chance to get some range,since he cant move while that spell and he blocks EVERYTHING. But your BEST marks casts winterstroke??

In addition: he fights (almost) only vs melee (most way lower lvl and obvious noobs) and most time only 1by1,so you can never talk about a "9vs1".

He is a really good marks, he has alot of skill and you really rare see such marks, but THE best marks should master such small things aswell,dont you think so? :D

That's not the case of a troll or an envious player as i supposed, also his comment is not against Alenox but against your assumption that videos are the only way to judge a player.
I still don't understad your reaction to his comment.
+1 and..
I guess Alenox is his friend and he just want protect him. He want to tell it the rest of the world,since he wont accept the truth, that there MIGHT be a better marks somewhere in our whole regnum history.

[AariEv]

First of all, everyone has their own opinion about anything and everything. Just because a player makes a pretty good video and you're now his new fanboy doesn't mean he's the best, nor does it mean you can declare your opinion to be fact. I'm sure you haven't examined every marksman that plays the game to the extent where you can establish this player to be The King of Marksman, and even if you did, once again, this is your opinion. Who are you to judge who's the best?

Second, videos are not the best representation of a players skills. Their only best representation is their time in game. Also, these kinds of videos ARE obviously biased as you yourself acknowledged that he's showing his BEST gameplay moments (in a very limited amount of time, I might add)......well what about his other moments? Many players in this game have had moments where everything is going right in game and they're at their best, yet they didn't record, so you can't use the argument that "he's had these moments" to justify why this video does in fact make him the best marksman.

In any case, I agree with Drv in that I have no idea why you're reacting that way to Scias' comment. If you want to say that in you opinion, he's the best, sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Better yet, why don't you add him to a post in your own personal "inter-realm dream team" that can be found here: http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1390495#post1390495

Kind Regards

[esp_tupac]

videos are not the best representation of a players skills. Their only best representation is their time in game. Also, these kinds of videos ARE obviously biased as you yourself acknowledged that he's showing his BEST gameplay moments (in a very limited amount of time, I might add)......well what about his other moments? Many players in this game have had moments where everything is going right in game and they're at their best, yet they didn't record, so you can't use the argument that "he's had these moments" to justify why this video does in fact make him the best marksman.

quote from umaril:
Scias makes a fair point, almost anyone can make themselves look like a very good player in videos, we've all had fights where we've come out with a win against heavy odds, and showing those fights alone is not a true representation of ability.

For every 1 fight you win against the odds, you may have lost 2, you just don't show those in your video

As it happens, Alenox IS a very good player. And that does come through in his videos, but a narrow slice of fights chosen by the recorder are obviously not a true representation of their performance in game. Simply because no ones going to put that time they got ganked by a hunter 10 levels below them in their shiny pvp video


there are moments where everything is going right in a fight and you are able to win against heavy odds and yet you didn't record them. Every player has his best and worst moments and what we see on videos are almost always the best moments. I totally agree with you on that. everybody loses at some point and everybody makes mistakes. I believe alenox is the best marksman not because he is able to capture his best moments but because of his incredible hand techniques to execute spells and switch spell bars. a player can lose a fight due to resist or bad luck and all the other kinds of uncontrolable variables in the warzone but losing/winning a single fight doesn't mean the player is good or bad and so showing only the good moments on a video doesn't prove anything does it because he also loses and he never shows the losing side of him. I understand that.

However, as I have mentioned before over and over again, my judgement of personal skill of a player are based on the hand techniques of the player shown in videos and how the player handles his user interface throughout a fight because the keyboarding techniques are a major determant of your combat efficiency. most ppl fail to see these keyboarding techniques portrayed in alenox's video or fail to understand the sophistication and significance of it. That's because they have not reached a certain skill lvl/depth to appreciate them. what most ppl see is some guy posting his best gameplay moments on youtube and showing off the best side of him. Well, I have spent years researching the most efficient way to execute a spell and switch between function bars on a warlock and I can tell you with confidence and experience that alenox's hand techniques used in casting spells is by far the most combat efficient of all. That's why i think he is the best. pity you guys didn't see the ingenuity and beauty of alenox's casting :) for those of you who have no idea what im talking about, time will tell.

[NotScias]

I do not understand this overreaction about what I have said.

Althrought others already said what had to be said about it, I will add my two cents as I'm supposed to be concerned.

I have never meant nor said that Alenox is not a good player but the only thing I can say about his videos is "Damn he can be good at hunting against the odds". However saying/admitting that he (or any other player) is THE BEST of RO just because of his videos is is all but impartial because :
- A tiny proportion of players record and publish videos
- The videos only show the winning moments
- The videos mostly concern PvPish battles
And unless you're omniscient, you have no idea of what's happenning in the other servers such as muspell, nemon, etc... I guess you've just seen how is Horus with your personal experience, how is Ra with a few videos from random people of Ra, and decreted "ah this one is the best of RO !!" without considering the above points. Sadly this is nothing more than blind fanboyism.
How the hell can you compare one/a few people who record their gameplay vs the rest of the non-recording players of the game (=95%?) ? Nonsense, purely.

Making videos is not a requirement to be the "best" of your class/server/game. Do you have to expose and claim yourself among the RO community to be considered as good ? What if Alenox didn't record ? He wouldn't be good ?
As far as I know you have to be good ingame, not at video recording/uploading and self proclamation. There's a freakload of silent players, that don't even have a forum account, and yet are awesome foes ingame.

And to respond to the PvP vs RvR thing on the other topic (almost identical post anyways) : Being excellent in PvP doesn't inevitably make you an excellent foe in RvR, and I'll try to explain why.
In PvP you expect that your chain of spells and tactics won't be disturbed/dispelled as there won't be any people to help the victim(s), and even in 1v3, 1v4 scenarios, you can keep everyone in control, and especially as a marksman with the bazillion tools and available range, so there is not really unexpected events, besides the sempiternal resists. You only have to watch a few targets.
In RvR, you cannot keep everyone in control, not even keep an eye on every enemy, your usually working PvP tactics will almost always be disturbed by dispels, heals, and unexpected attacks (+ resists aswell) from everywhere and you have to be prepared for this because if you act like if everything was under control, you'd not last long in the battlefield. You also have to work in team with your realm mates, and that's not simple neither as you can't predict how your allies will act nor who they are going to target. You have to handle a lot of targets and fail to.

So yes, being good in PvP requires a lot of skill and training indeed, but saying that RvR requires nothing more is a flawed assumption as it requires to completely change your strategy and even your setups. It's like saying being good at grinding makes you good in PvP.
Not saying it requires more or less skill, it requires a different skill : working/fighting with/against a lot of people, expect the unexpected.... And the same applies to excellent RvR fighters which doesn't mean they will be excellent in PvP.
And because I might learn you something new : in RvR you also have to switch spell bars, carefully build effective setups, have reflexes and sense of timing, strafe et caetera...
Each side requires training and experience.

<personal attack>Somehow I'm not surprised to read this for someone who completely skips the RvR aspect of the game, and the few times I have seen you in RvR you weren't a big of impact in the battle. I could name a dozen of more effective Ignis locks in RvR.
And I have yet to see your amazing innate RvR skillz on your youtube channel.</personal attack>

To conclude, no offense Alenox, I like your videos, you can show that you're an amazing player in PvPish/hunting situations but that, and I'm sure you know why and don't care anyways, doesn't make you the best of RO...

Anyways such question can't be answered at all....

[_Enio_]

Sorry but i have to add some stuff here.

"However, as I have mentioned before over and over again, my judgement of personal skill of a player are based on the hand techniques of the player"

Thats just stupid, sorry. If you dont manage to cast an skill you need to in a matter of 0.1s you just fail there and have to improve. You scale down skill on such a simple crap, its almost not bearable. Skill is when you manage to LoS 2 people while killing the 3rd, without people who watch your movie realize it at all. Just to hint you on what i connect skills towards. Any skill and cooldown you know by heart, no. you dont know it, you feel it. You cancel BoW and hit SotW on UM reacitively, you know the cattime of BoW with CS gear?, fucking ridiculous. You Switch targets 3times a second, ofc noone notices, noone realizes the beauty of your combinations because Its hidden in the mess, all they see is the enemy fail with their timings. If prople knew what would be the next ideal move theyd say you cheat sice you start the counter-cast before they even start casting, always ready to cance the cast if they decide to not do their optimal move..
Seriously, not intended to talk and skill or whatever down, but your definition of skill just makes me chuckle there.. Mechanics? THats a base, not an indicator of skill.

[-Kalid-]

Playing RO for 4 years, i haven't seen good marks than Emin, Drv, Ludovik, Lucky, Lubaya, Rokotuiwai Dumaru(Tui), Lester, Benjamin Sisko, Lalola, Nahuel I, Katrino and some others.

These players i mentioned above (inculding some others) use skills and they are very smart, they always use the right spell for the right moment, and no casting any bullshit like our friend alenox freezes a knight while he is on a mount then casts BoW (rofl). :thumb_down:

Those players above i call them marksmen. ;)

[esp_tupac]

Sorry but i have to add some stuff here.

"However, as I have mentioned before over and over again, my judgement of personal skill of a player are based on the hand techniques of the player"

Thats just stupid, sorry. If you dont manage to cast an skill you need to in a matter of 0.1s you just fail there and have to improve. You scale down skill on such a simple crap, its almost not bearable. Skill is when you manage to LoS 2 people while killing the 3rd, without people who watch your movie realize it at all. Just to hint you on what i connect skills towards. Any skill and cooldown you know by heart, no. you dont know it, you feel it. You cancel BoW and hit SotW on UM reacitively, you know the cattime of BoW with CS gear?, fucking ridiculous. You Switch targets 3times a second, ofc noone notices, noone realizes the beauty of your combinations because Its hidden in the mess, all they see is the enemy fail with their timings. If prople knew what would be the next ideal move theyd say you cheat sice you start the counter-cast before they even start casting, always ready to cance the cast if they decide to not do their optimal move..
Seriously, not intended to talk and skill or whatever down, but your definition of skill just makes me chuckle there.. Mechanics? THats a base, not an indicator of skill.

mechanics are one of the fundamentals you would look first in a player. what i meant in my previously posts is that keyboarding techniques would be among the first things to look for in a player/video that an individual makes. if you havent got that figured out first you can't be good at your class at all (debatable?). and ofc mechanics was not to be the whole definition of personal skill cus I assumed in earlier posts that a good player knows how to feel and time his spells and knows what spells to pick given a specific circumstance. anyways i think there was a misunderstanding there enio. overall i see everyone here has posted something insightful and you all have a point there. well if anyone else has something to say regarding this "video controversy" id love to hear more ;)

PS: thx scias for the heads up on the whole PvP/RvR issue. peronsally as a warlock I havent done much RvR in the warzone and i have to admit that i have not be able to make a big impact in RvR at all because u know my warlock setup is pvp oriented XD maybe im just too lazy to do another setup that emphasizes more on RvR...anyways keep the good stuff coming i wanna hear them. thx again

[Torcida]

To make something that would be a very very very long comment short Hephaestus is right,who disagrees on this is wrong. Topic closed you can't really argue on this.

[TheMessenger]

Playing RO for 4 years, i haven't seen good marks than...Lubaya,

fuck no
she sucks.

(this was before the WM update and some other nerfs/updates)
When I use to play RA regularly I would always go to pp2 for action. She would always be there as well. I was a lvl 45 barb she was lvl 50. All she did was stand at the other side of the bridge at max range, spam spells and anytime someone got in ~30rng she would cast WS/Ambush and run away to get back to her max range and spam spells. How can you consider that being a good marks? T

he others, maybe. I have only seen tui, emin, and ludovik play and yes, they are good.

[-Kalid-]

fuck no
she sucks.

(this was before the WM update and some other nerfs/updates)
When I use to play RA regularly I would always go to pp2 for action. She would always be there as well. I was a lvl 45 barb she was lvl 50. All she did was stand at the other side of the bridge at max range, spam spells and anytime someone got in ~30rng she would cast WS/Ambush and run away to get back to her max range and spam spells. How can you consider that being a good marks? T

he others, maybe. I have only seen tui, emin, and ludovik play and yes, they are good.

Calm down dude, maybe he didn't how to play before, but he is great now, you should try killing him, plus he is better in RvR than in PvP.

[Alenox_I]

Playing RO for 4 years, i haven't seen good marks than Emin, Drv, Ludovik, Lucky, Lubaya, Rokotuiwai Dumaru(Tui), Lester, Benjamin Sisko, Lalola, Nahuel I, Katrino and some others.

These players i mentioned above (inculding some others) use skills and they are very smart, they always use the right spell for the right moment, and no casting any bullshit like our friend alenox freezes a knight while he is on a mount then casts BoW (rofl). :thumb_down:

Those players above i call them marksmen. ;)

I actually forgot in the vid that he was gonna get knocked after the WS just saying and btw Emin, Drv, Lucky, Ludo and Nahuel are the ones that I consider the good marks from you list.

I forgot, it was only one mistake.. you think no one makes mistakes?

[TheMessenger]

well,if he is THE best marks,can you explain me the 2 HUGE mistakes i found while first time i watched the "9vs1" video:

1. 14:28: he casted winterstoke at the knight to stop/dismount him,ok,but then,after freeze ended he instant casts BoW. Every "experienced" player know,that u get knocked after dismount + dizzy effect doesnt work while knocked!!!

2. 14:52: After the knock on the knight ended,the knight used precise block,which he tried to hide by turning around. Every "experienced" player know: thats your chance to get some range,since he cant move while that spell and he blocks EVERYTHING. But your BEST marks casts winterstroke??

In addition: he fights (almost) only vs melee (most way lower lvl and obvious noobs) and most time only 1by1,so you can never talk about a "9vs1".

He is a really good marks, he has alot of skill and you really rare see such marks, but THE best marks should master such small things aswell,dont you think so? :D

Him being the best marks is debatable but, for this argument, let's say he is.

Being the best at something does not mean you do, whatever it is you are best at, perfectly each time. The best WR will drop a pass every now and than, the best NASCAR driver will lose/crash every now and than, etc.

Fights only melee? You obviously have only watched one video. Also, unless he is able to rest and regen ALL or most of his mana/hp without being attacked again I consider it a 9v1 or however manyv1

[Alenox_I]

well,if he is THE best marks,can you explain me the 2 HUGE mistakes i found while first time i watched the "9vs1" video:

1. 14:28: he casted winterstoke at the knight to stop/dismount him,ok,but then,after freeze ended he instant casts BoW. Every "experienced" player know,that u get knocked after dismount + dizzy effect doesnt work while knocked!!!

2. 14:52: After the knock on the knight ended,the knight used precise block,which he tried to hide by turning around. Every "experienced" player know: thats your chance to get some range,since he cant move while that spell and he blocks EVERYTHING. But your BEST marks casts winterstroke??

In addition: he fights (almost) only vs melee (most way lower lvl and obvious noobs) and most time only 1by1,so you can never talk about a "9vs1".

He is a really good marks, he has alot of skill and you really rare see such marks, but THE best marks should master such small things aswell,dont you think so? :D


+1 and..
I guess Alenox is his friend and he just want protect him. He want to tell it the rest of the world,since he wont accept the truth, that there MIGHT be a better marks somewhere in our whole regnum history.

See my ping i couldn't cancel the cast...

[Wield_II]

Is everyone done ego-boosting?

[bois]

I guess I am damn lucky. I don't have any skill at all. I just log in , hope to meet a few friends, have some nice RvR battle and have fun.

If I do crap , so be it. If I can have fun and laugh at my absolutely crappy play even better. I am the best I can be at any given time, that is all that matters to me. Even if my best is a pile of manure on that day.
It is not like I can put Regnum Online Knight (best in Horus) on a resume. Well maybe I can.

[esp_tupac]

See my ping i couldn't cancel the cast...

let's stop feeding the trolls and noobs. they won't understand til years later. some ppl are just jealous XD

[Torcida]

let's stop feeding the trolls and noobs. they won't understand til years later. some ppl are just jealous XD

Copy that

10chars

[esp_tupac]

I guess I am damn lucky. I don't have any skill at all. I just log in , hope to meet a few friends, have some nice RvR battle and have fun.

If I do crap , so be it. If I can have fun and laugh at my absolutely crappy play even better. I am the best I can be at any given time, that is all that matters to me. Even if my best is a pile of manure on that day.
It is not like I can put Regnum Online Knight (best in Horus) on a resume. Well maybe I can.

well said. everybody should take it easy (including me) ! after all this is just a game not a job and it won't pay for your salary only the other way around. let's all stop the "ego boosting" and sit back enjoy the time spent with friends online. what's important is you are having fun in game !

[-Kalid-]

I actually forgot in the vid that he was gonna get knocked after the WS just saying and btw Emin, Drv, Lucky, Ludo and Nahuel are the ones that I consider the good marks from you list.


You actually wrote the names of the marks 'you' know.. or else you don't want to prove they are better than you cause they maybe pawned you at WZ, who knows.

[Alenox_I]

You actually wrote the names of the marks 'you' know.. or else you don't want to prove they are better than you cause they maybe pawned you at WZ, who knows.

Actually no, I've seen them all and I've killed al of'em several times (but Drv who i never find and emin who's on other server) ;D. U mad?

[-Kalid-]

Actually no, I've seen them all and I've killed al of'em several times (but Drv who i never find and emin who's on other server) ;D. U mad?

Haha mad from what? I'm not even a marks though, but i've seen better, if you so pro, your RPS explains everything.

[Alenox_I]

Haha mad from what? I'm not even a marks though, but i've seen better, if you so pro, your RPS explains everything.

WTF?! Rps say nothing men ;D that's fucking idiotic now you know what you think.

[-Kalid-]

WTF?! Rps say nothing men ;D that's fucking idiotic now you know what you think.

If you really killed alllllllll of the players in RO you would have atleast 50-60k rps, but na 30k? rofl dude C'mon lvl 60 with 30k.. can't imagine that (maybe 25k hahah) :thumb_down:

Sorry i can't waste my time just telling you how noob you are.

[Alenox_I]

If you really killed alllllllll of the players in RO you would have atleast 50-60k rps, but na 30k? rofl dude C'mon lvl 60 with 30k.. can't imagine that (maybe 25k hahah) :thumb_down:

Grinded that char quite fast and just for you to know I use 7 different chars. Btw I never said I killed all the players...

[-Kalid-]

Btw I never said I killed all the players...

Then stop saying you are the best marks when you didn't try to kill everyone. Lol

[Alenox_I]

Then stop saying you are the best marks.

I've never said that, have you read me saying it?

And btw: WTF does that have to do with your idiotic rp discussion? I just said I killed ur list (but emin and drv)

[-Kalid-]

I've never said that, have you read me saying it?

omg... :cuac:

If you da best marks, you would atleast killed enough to have a marks experience and you just killed a very small population of noobs. (Rp)

[Alenox_I]

omg... :cuac:

Hephaestus said it...

[Alenox_I]

omg... :cuac:

If you da best marks, you would atleast killed enough to have a marks experience and you just killed a very small population. (Rp)

I've 4 marks and used to have another one <3..

But I've never said i'm the best <3

[-Kalid-]

But I've never said i'm the best <3

Ok then why thread is created ? :poster_spam::closed1:

[Alenox_I]

Ok then why thread is created ? :poster_spam::closed1:

Hephaestus created it lmao xD. Well cya <3

[-Kalid-]

Hephaestus created it lmao xD. Well cya <3

Cya, bye ^^ xD

[-Drv-]

The reason why a lot answered to estupac was his ridiculous system of rating players.
Alenox skills are not in discussion for every player has seen him in game.

The list Kalid made includes some giants, some players i haven't seen alot cause of the diffrent time zone, and 2 low level marksman, me excluded but is commonly known that i'm more than the king of marksmen, i'm the Queen :cuac:

The reason i and probably many other have never published videos is also because they amplify the feelings towards the protagonist, some see you winning a 5vs1 and think you always win a 5vs1 (we can call them groupie of fanatics) others see your almost perfect combo ambush-distracting shot failed for 0,05 sec and think that you cannot use cc spell (i'd call them troll or envious)

I just said I killed ur list (but emin and drv)
It's normal that you haven't killed me, i can't speak for emin but the last time i was killed was in 2008 :cuac:

And i was wrong again, even here in the english section this thread created an excellet flame war.

[esp_tupac]

Haha mad from what? I'm not even a marks though, but i've seen better, if you so pro, your RPS explains everything.

woah woah that's just a noob statement right there cuz realm points doesn't show anything. you can get rp by constantly tbagging noobs, save camping, zerging or from spell spamming in fort wars. realm points are not a indicator of how good you are period

[esp_tupac]

If you really killed alllllllll of the players in RO you would have atleast 50-60k rps, but na 30k? rofl dude C'mon lvl 60 with 30k.. can't imagine that (maybe 25k hahah) :thumb_down:

Sorry i can't waste my time just telling you how noob you are.

epic fail... no words

[esp_tupac]

And i was wrong again, even here in the english section this thread created an excellet flame war.

totally ! i can feel the intense heat XD

[esp_tupac]

The reason why a lot answered to estupac was his ridiculous system of rating players.
Alenox skills are not in discussion for every player has seen him in game.

The list Kalid made includes some giants, some players i haven't seen alot cause of the diffrent time zone, and 2 low level marksman, me excluded but is commonly known that i'm more than the king of marksmen, i'm the Queen :cuac:

The reason i and probably many other have never published videos is also because they amplify the feelings towards the protagonist, some see you winning a 5vs1 and think you always win a 5vs1 (we can call them groupie of fanatics) others see your almost perfect combo ambush-distracting shot failed for 0,05 sec and think that you cannot use cc spell (i'd call them troll or envious)

It's normal that you haven't killed me, i can't speak for emin but the last time i was killed was in 2008 :cuac:


enough talks man...just show some videos of you fighting cuz ppl from other servers wanna see how good u really are. I don't care if the fights on the video are epic or not I just wanna see u fight not from a third person's view but from the first person view. are you man enough to show ppl how u fight? are you man enough to take on the criticism from all the viewers. answer is probably no. seeing is believing man. if you think you are good enough of a marks I wanna see ur user interface in a fight :) can you handle it? btw everybody makes mistakes. we have all had our bad moments. so killing a player in a pvpish fight doesn't mean shit it's how u kill that defines you.

the statement "last time i was killed was in 2008" is a bit exaggerating dont u think? and don't u lecture me about how to rate a player cuz I have played RO long enough to identify a good player when i see one from either a third person's view or from a video. when i say something is the best i have my reasons. just show a video of you to prove me wrong. you have nothing to lose or hide right? show it to me!

[-Drv-]

enough talks man...just show some videos of you fighting cuz ppl from other servers wanna see how good u really are. I don't care if the fights on the video are epic or not I just wanna see u fight not from a third person's view but from the first person view. are you man enough to show ppl how u fight? are you man enough to take on the criticism from all the viewers. answer is probably no. seeing is believing man. if you think you are good enough of a marks I wanna see ur user interface in a fight :) can you handle it? btw everybody makes mistakes. we have all had our bad moments. so killing a player in a pvpish fight doesn't mean shit it's how u kill that defines you. btw the statement "last time i was killed was in 2008" is a bit exaggerating dont u think?
I'm sorry but the only videos i share are the one reporting bugs or speedhacking, my use of control bars will continue to be reserved to few players of my clan but you can find me on Ra.
Maybe you need to read twice before posting and in case you don't notice something new you can always buy one this detectors
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2rTR2Dls5Yg/SiS0eybgnDI/AAAAAAAAB54/AaUWKTU53Ak/s400/sarcasm_detector.jpg
Did you really take seriously that i've been playing 3 years without being killed?
And in Italy if you want someone to prove how man he is you should be so kind to borrow him your girlfriend :cuac: <--- this duck is commonly used to indicate sarcasm in the spanish section, i'm telling you because i don't want to find out of my door your girlfriend.

[Balint]

There are two components of "winning":
1)know how to control your char
2)suprise the enemy somehow

When someone can control his char precisely, it dosen't mean he is the best. It only means, he is able to participate in the real fights. He is able to create "suprise" plans. He is able to make so awesome PvP videos like we saw before.

Suprise the enemy, yes, it's the hardest part of a fight. You can't be the best in every kind of situation because there are too many. That's why there can't be a player who beats everybody, and that's why the game is fun to play.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Fun thread.

[bois]

I am tempted to make a video of my own. In it I will show how I cast disabling to set up a player for my pals in RvR, then show how I cast protect ally on the conju so that they were not confused any-more to be able to help others. I cast auras to protect my pals and sometimes Shield wall to help my knocked ally survive the bashing.
Then I show my uber Balestra 1 that stops barbs for a vital moment (non um) and kick 3 not to mention shield bash 3 that keeps the locks quiet for a moment. If I desire, I can even cast back slam. I have that skill you know.
To top it off I will show my selfless sacrifice to stall opponents so my pals can escape.

Wait, that won't work. This game is based on PvP and my RvR skills mean that I don't know how to play. Wait , PvP , no.. This game is RvR based not so?
Damn now I am confused.

[Torcida]

I am tempted to make a video of my own. In it I will show how I cast disabling to set up a player for my pals in RvR, then show how I cast protect ally on the conju so that they were not confused any-more to be able to help others. I cast auras to protect my pals and sometimes Shield wall to help my knocked ally survive the bashing.
Then I show my uber Balestra 1 that stops barbs for a vital moment (non um) and kick 3 not to mention shield bash 3 that keeps the locks quiet for a moment. If I desire, I can even cast back slam. I have that skill you know.
To top it off I will show my selfless sacrifice to stall opponents so my pals can escape.

Wait, that won't work. This game is based on PvP and my RvR skills mean that I don't know how to play. Wait , PvP , no.. This game is RvR based not so?
Damn now I am confused.


RvR is no skill involved

[Mattdoesrock]

RvR is no skill involved

Wow. I'm speechless.

[UmarilsStillHere]

RvR is no skill involved

Personally, I think you should tell your conjus that, they'd love you for it.

[_Seinvan]

RvR is no skill involved

Oh my god.

Did he just say that? :cuac:

Then I show my uber Balestra 1 that stops barbs for a vital moment (non um) and kick 3 not to mention shield bash 3 that keeps the locks quiet for a moment. If I desire, I can even cast back slam.

But quick question, does Back-Slam work well? What level do you use it on? Been questioning if its worth using over Shield Bash since Shield Bash can be a pain the ass to get off sometimes :s If you can use both, more power to you xD

[Torcida]

Ofcourse RvR is no skill involved you just follow your zerg if your zerg makes a mistake you all die PvP is 100 times as hard.

[esp_tupac]

RvR is no skill involved

there is gonna be tactics and skills involved in RvR and it may require a complete different setup and mind frame to play but in the end it all comes down to which side has more numbers. when we look at a RvR fight, it's not as skill demanding as a PvP fight. ppl from all lvls can partipate. and when one group outnumbers the other, the dominating side can simply spam spells and normal hits at different targets (point and shoot simple as that). you might not contribute much to the overall combat ability of that group by doing so but that's all you have to do. while smart tactics and personal skills can make a huge impact in RvR, especially when the conjurers know exactly what they are supposed to do. but such are not requirements to RvR. when one guy in a group consisting of say 10 players makes a mistake, it won't have as big of a impact to the whole group. he will have plenty of time to recover from that mistake and re-engage. but when a guy in a 4-ppl group makes mistake whether it's spell choice or timing, it might cost you that group the whole fight. ppl can play a fort war or large scale RvR with lag or without a mouse. but in a smaller scale fight (4vs4ish) good pings/fps and a mouse is required because more precision is involved.

As long as players are having fun in game who cares about these skills anyways. you can't put RO skillz in your resume can you? let's all take it easy and devote more attention to our real life shall we :) i think now would be an appropreiate time to close this discussion about videos and RO skills. Thank you for all your comments tho :) flame war ftw XD

[NotScias]

Wow. I'm speechless.

What did you expect from him?

[TheMessenger]

Ofcourse RvR is no skill involved you just follow your zerg if your zerg makes a mistake you all die PvP is 100 times as hard.

>implying the only RvR is zerg vs zerg

Lolwut?

I consider myself to be one of the best pvping marks in the game and I believe RvR is way harder then pvp. I am not going to go into detail because I'm on my phone atm but in pvp you only have to concentrate on 1 person, can use all your mana and all your spells on one target without worrying about anything. RvR you have to pay attention. To what is happening to your allies, especially conjs, and a lot of other stuff

Tl;Dr RvR 100 times harder.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Ofcourse RvR is no skill involved you just follow your zerg if your zerg makes a mistake you all die PvP is 100 times as hard.

This is how it is played in Alsius on Horus...

[standistortion]

This is how it is played in Alsius on Horus...
Hate to admit it but there is a lot of truth in that.

[bois]

I do not discount PvP skills. That is one type of skill.

RvR skill is different. I play mainly RvR in this game. Singular PvP does not appeal to me. As such I trained and skilled my Knight in the art of support build specifically for team play.
That alone is a skill by itself. Because of this I am constantly on the front lines of any RvR battle be it 4 v 4 or 100 v 100. I am not here to measure the strengths of any style. As a matter of fact each format is different.

When you are 1 v 1 you have one target , one focus. 2 v 1 is similar. You take out one and switch focus between targets.

RvR is different , the mind set is different the focus is different. Ask any support conjurer. A support conjurer's job is infinitely harder in RvR than PvP. Support knight is less taxing but still requires a specific skill set.

As support knight (as I play anyway), your job is not to kill but to setup the opponent, weaken and debilitate them. While you are doing this you have to keep looking at your allies to back up and support those that need help. In some cases you can deliver the final blow. This requires an overview of the entire battlefield and you have to see where everything is, your range, timings, offence ,self defence, ally offence and defence. Because you are melee you have to do this all while under constant attack form melee and ranged alike. You have to assess all dangers, remember multiple opponent buffs etc. In many cases you are required to harrass and take blows from all and sundry in order for your allies to have breathing room to operate.

In some cases you have to take one for the team. How will a PvP specialist even understand such a concept ?

Why go into all this? Not to flame, to inform. If you really like playing support and are good at it, you are hardly noticed but your team has a good chance of winning. The quality of support defines a war group. The opponent may be more but if their collaborative (not singular) skill is less, they are going to struggle.
I like looking at the PvP videos. But make no mistake, if you play RvR and specialise in support as I do , it needs just as much skill as any singular PvP battle. It needs more observation skills, quick decision making (no spell chains here, decisions on the fly.) and memory too.
The point of my previous post is that PvP specialists are no better than RvR specialists, just different.

For my kind of build, Back slam fits . I use it at level 1. It is not for everyone. The chance % is good enough odds for me to use it. Gives me options.

[esp_tupac]

I do not discount PvP skills. That is one type of skill.
RvR skill is different. I play mainly RvR in this game. Singular PvP does not appeal to me. As such I trained and skilled my Knight in the art of support build specifically for team play. .

I think the skills you are referring to are the skillz required to play a specific role in combat whether being a support class which tend to focus on RvR or an offensive class which tend to focus on PvP. these include ur observational skills in the battlefield, the ability to support and provide cover to allies, the precison of your assessment in distance and timing, the ability to feel the duration and ccs that various opponents cast and to be able to respond properly, the ability to fight in a chaotic situation where you don't have absolute control, to be able to play as a team etc. well i assumed that everyone knew how to play their designated role in combat when i started this post. You are supposed to know what spell to cast given ANY situation. you are supposed to feel the duration and cd of your opponents and come up with the most logical response immdiately. you are supposed to know who and when you should dispell. you are supposed to have all these role specific skillz already if you have been playing a class for say 2 years right? everything should be intuitive.

now the mechanics to execute spells and move around are not so easy to master compared to the role specific skillz that bois and others have been referring to. when someone says RvR involves no skill, he meant RvR is not as demanding physically in how fast and precise you cast a spell and how fluent you can manuver your character when compared to PvP. I have spent years researching on fastest way to manuever and cast spells ie. the keyboarding techniques. as the number of spells increases, it becomes more and more difficult to get to a specific spell that you wanted given the specific situation you are in as spells are spread out in different function bars and you have to switch in between based on the situation you are in. we see ppl organize their spells in unique way such that they can get to them as quickly as possible.

Aside from spell choice, player instinct and role speicific skills, we are able to see through videos the mechanical aspect of the gameplay and that's where the true efficiency of combat lies. After all, between an average player and say the best player, spell choices should be identical because they are supposed to know what they are doing. what makes one superior than the other are how they actually cast them and how they maneuver their character. most of the times a player would know exactly what to do. however their responses are often delayed because of the immature hand techniques.

For example, the fastest way to cast a spell is by keyboard, as selecting a target with mouse and then use the mouse to cast a spell is slower than if you select target with right hand (on mouse) while casting a spell with ur left hand, and in the case where the spell u want is on the right end of keyboard you would have to reach with ur left hand. In a chase situation, you might be required to cast a spell with keyboard while turning with mouse or the QE keys or you might be required to use both hands on the keyboard and at the same time be able to handle the turning efficiently. details like these define how efficient u really are in combat, given that you have mastered all the class specific skills and have the required player instinct to handle all possible scenarios in the warzone. one has to see how the player physically operate his character before deciding how good the player really this. after all, how can a player excel in his class if he hasn't got the machanic part figured out. Tho the mechanics is only one aspect of the broader personal skill definition. It is something one has to see to determine his true lvl of personal skill.

[Orimae]

RvR is no skill involved

Lol whut?...

Yeah..what these guys said (and others too.)



I am tempted to make a video of my own. In it I will show how I cast disabling to set up a player for my pals in RvR, then show how I cast protect ally on the conju so that they were not confused any-more to be able to help others. I cast auras to protect my pals and sometimes Shield wall to help my knocked ally survive the bashing.
Then I show my uber Balestra 1 that stops barbs for a vital moment (non um) and kick 3 not to mention shield bash 3 that keeps the locks quiet for a moment. If I desire, I can even cast back slam. I have that skill you know.
To top it off I will show my selfless sacrifice to stall opponents so my pals can escape.

Wait, that won't work. This game is based on PvP and my RvR skills mean that I don't know how to play. Wait , PvP , no.. This game is RvR based not so?
Damn now I am confused.

I guess I am damn lucky. I don't have any skill at all. I just log in , hope to meet a few friends, have some nice RvR battle and have fun.

If I do crap , so be it. If I can have fun and laugh at my absolutely crappy play even better. I am the best I can be at any given time, that is all that matters to me. Even if my best is a pile of manure on that day.
It is not like I can put Regnum Online Knight (best in Horus) on a resume. Well maybe I can.

Exactly what he said...yes i can warju sometimes and own, other times, i die fast... at conjuring...


Personally, I think you should tell your conjus that, they'd love you for it.

Indeed..like Artec said, he has a group based set up, to help the whole army.....thats a conju's role too..

It's not hard to work out when and where you should cast your spells, its getting the chance to do it thats the problem....like knowing what conju di'd what conju so no double casting and one suffer's, timing mana pylon, mana com, waiting till the biggest part of the group is together so you can cast Greater healing, knowing what you can and cannot dispell, timing mass dispell to counter the right spell, one barb pops pout, dont cast just yet..cos theres another barb with roar comin etc....so yeah, RvR for all classes, all which have at least one spell that they can use to support their realm by either knockdown, stops pells or protection. (yes even hunters got rep shot :P )

This is how it is played in Alsius on Horus...

We kinda knew that all along.. alot of old Syrtis zerg went to Alsuis remember :P


But back on topic, i made a few vids of my hunter and barb play a couple of years ago, then, my hunter was pretty decent, not the best by a long shot, but i could fight, now, my hunter pretty much sucks and im back in conju mode, i could take vids of that, but then you will see like others have pointed out, we all have our good and bad days, sometimes, i die so damn fast (mostly cos im the only conju there) that i get no rp, only another run from the save/gate...some days i rock the conju and somehow manage to keep the whole army alive, the thing is..it all depends who you fight with and against....but wait..fighting with people and against them?.... oh yeah, cos its an RvR game...doh!! (thats that cleared up Arty :P ) So in my vids, if i make more, you will pretty much see good and bad days, just like the ones we all have...

And on the RP count for players in relation to how good they are..*sigh*.. there may be one player who has over 100k but who plays all day and mostly preys on the weak, low hp and low level grinders, 'look at me going round the back of the fort while you muppets take the door , im killing that one conju that just came,and i got 3 afkers at the save!! mwahahah aint i badass?' ...no quite frankly , your not.... And on the other side, you may have one player, who logs in twice a week and simply play really really well, kicking ass all over the place, but because of their short playtime, they only have maybe 50k rp....so RP imo is not a true reflection of players skill.

[isgandarli]

1 vs 9, 1 vs 5 etc. it doesn't matter. You can beat a whole zerg of noobs with kiting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiting_(video_gaming)), but it's impossible(luck only) to beat 2 good skilled players even...

That's why most in videos you can rarely see 2-3 "normal" players vs one. Most of them are "easy" or "very easy".

[Torcida]

I do not discount PvP skills. That is one type of skill.

RvR skill is different. I play mainly RvR in this game. Singular PvP does not appeal to me. As such I trained and skilled my Knight in the art of support build specifically for team play.
That alone is a skill by itself. Because of this I am constantly on the front lines of any RvR battle be it 4 v 4 or 100 v 100. I am not here to measure the strengths of any style. As a matter of fact each format is different.

When you are 1 v 1 you have one target , one focus. 2 v 1 is similar. You take out one and switch focus between targets.

RvR is different , the mind set is different the focus is different. Ask any support conjurer. A support conjurer's job is infinitely harder in RvR than PvP. Support knight is less taxing but still requires a specific skill set.

As support knight (as I play anyway), your job is not to kill but to setup the opponent, weaken and debilitate them. While you are doing this you have to keep looking at your allies to back up and support those that need help. In some cases you can deliver the final blow. This requires an overview of the entire battlefield and you have to see where everything is, your range, timings, offence ,self defence, ally offence and defence. Because you are melee you have to do this all while under constant attack form melee and ranged alike. You have to assess all dangers, remember multiple opponent buffs etc. In many cases you are required to harrass and take blows from all and sundry in order for your allies to have breathing room to operate.

In some cases you have to take one for the team. How will a PvP specialist even understand such a concept ?

Why go into all this? Not to flame, to inform. If you really like playing support and are good at it, you are hardly noticed but your team has a good chance of winning. The quality of support defines a war group. The opponent may be more but if their collaborative (not singular) skill is less, they are going to struggle.
I like looking at the PvP videos. But make no mistake, if you play RvR and specialise in support as I do , it needs just as much skill as any singular PvP battle. It needs more observation skills, quick decision making (no spell chains here, decisions on the fly.) and memory too.
The point of my previous post is that PvP specialists are no better than RvR specialists, just different.

For my kind of build, Back slam fits . I use it at level 1. It is not for everyone. The chance % is good enough odds for me to use it. Gives me options.


Still if we are talking about fort wars it simply is (Almost) no skill involved especially for ranged classes I mean cmon lets be honest here, ranged classes stay on wall and attack the charging troops if the people on wall get attacked and are low on HP or they simply fall of the wall and go rest or get healed by a conjurer, and if you make mistakes during a fort battle (bad timing CC's for example) it probabbly won't matter because the rest of the group will kill that guy, Now in PvP you can't get saved by a conjurer or find a save spot to rest and in PvP mistakes Are crucial, Also in a RvR fight the main factor that wil determine the outcome of a battle are the Numbers,that being said you already know how much skill is involved in RvR.

[Torcida]

1 vs 9, 1 vs 5 etc. it doesn't matter. You can beat a whole zerg of noobs with kiting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiting_(video_gaming)), but it's impossible(luck only) to beat 2 good skilled players even...

That's why most in videos you can rarely see 2-3 "normal" players vs one. Most of them are "easy" or "very easy".

Easy players are just a few lvls beneath you they still should have more then enough skills to beat you, especially in a 3v1 2v1.

[isgandarli]

Easy players are just a few lvls beneath you they still should have more then enough skills to beat you, especially in a 3v1 2v1.

Level doesn't matter, I mean, most of "easy" and "very easy" players can be newbies, they can be in grind setup and so on. I just want to tell that - even fighting against 2 skilled players, you can die easily without winning.

[NSer]

This is how it is played in Alsius on Horus...

+100500
ten chars?

[Torcida]

Level doesn't matter, I mean, most of "easy" and "very easy" players can be newbies, they can be in grind setup and so on. I just want to tell that - even fighting against 2 skilled players, you can die easily without winning.

whats your point..?