Excessive defense (Poll)

[Kitsuni]

This is a poll to get a general opinion on the current state of defenses in the game. In the past, players cried for fights to last longer, and the number one suggestion was higher health. NGD took this approach with the new level cap, however they also took several other approaches that were not requested, such as the level 60 armors, armor enhancement gems, and more.

Combined with the repairing of the (formerly broken) defensive spells on classes such as the Knight, this has created an age where players not only have large amounts of health (so much they can take an entire mana pool to destroy without resists), but also excessive defenses leaving often logs full of numbers that are less than a hundred points of damage.

The purpose of this poll is to see how players feel about this trend, whether they prefered the game better before where everyone was a hard hitter, or now where only certain classes and certain combinations in certain situations can be effective at the damage role. I feel the need to create this poll due to the recent trend from WM update and recent nerfs to make CC less effective, focusing the game even more on damage, and thus widening the gap between those who can deal damage and those who cannot.

Thanks for your time.

[HidraA]

The excesive armor issue is only between a low lvl and lvl 60 .WM armor give lots of armor to some classes.
But if there are not benefits of become a WM ...what the point to make one?
This idea is splited in two camps:
1.)-Low lvl that complaint/are frustrated by low dmg that thy make on a WM armor;
2.)-A WM(or future grinder to become a WM),motivation to doit;

Now people will be to a side or to other side......

I did not voted...i am not decidet ...what camp to chose.

Personaly i get lots of frustration when i fight with my marks vs a lvl 60 marks due of better armor...but also i need a motivation to make a lvl 60 ...so i am neutral at the moment....

[Kaixo]

I like the new defenses but they are broken for pets/invos and hunters@54s with lower lvl.
I don't like that you can buy a 30% resistance vs one type of damage, some guys have resistances as high as AoO or steel skin.

[NSer]

I find only armor buffs excessive :D All other is Okay for me as lock

[_Nel_]

/me voted Other.

I have nothing against buffs and auras. IMO the main problem comes from constant damage reduction from armor that deeply wrongs low damage dealers: low level players and those who want to use fast weapons.

Solution: Damage and proportionality
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=76545

[HidraA]

And here wee wee go again.....hunter armor vs marks armor.....old story and bored about...
This thread going to flame people soon .....:D

[NSer]

And here wee wee go again.....hunter armor vs marks armor.....old story and bored about...
This thread going to flame people soon .....:D

Erm? The only advantage marx armor has is Strategic position :D imo :D

[HidraA]

Erm? The only advantage marx armor has is Strategic position :D imo :D

Soon not anymore hunters will have it :D And i bet this was them main reason why Kitsunie opened this thread.....after sugested this in other thread.....and after passing strategic to hunters....oups marks complaining about hunters excesive armor....ever infinte circle of troble...
I agree more with Narzoul's suggestion that Nel remindet .

[Kitsuni]

This is merely a poll, there's no personal investment in it. I've encountered this problem on multiple classes (except barb ;)).

[NSer]

/me voted Other.

I have nothing against buffs and auras. IMO the main problem comes from constant damage reduction from armor that deeply wrongs low damage dealers: low level players and those who want to use fast weapons.

Solution: Damage and proportionality
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=76545

This can work too.... ad plz feature of combination strategic position and retail is OP imo. Getting 0 damage from Lighting.... meh

[Minorian]

I play a barb and I feel defenses are too high. I mean it takes 2 whole hits for someone to die, sometimes 3. It's a travesty.


:cuac:

[isgandarli]

3 hits is enough to die from Barb even with Acrobatics (5) and Evasive Tactics (5)....
Even lvl 60 Elite set won't save you.

Barb casted on you Kick (5)
Barb hit you 1000 damage
Barb hit you 1250 damage
Barb hit you critical 1700 Damage

:cuac:

P.S. Not talking about mages defence even...

[ufkn]

3 hits is enough to die from Barb even with Acrobatics (5) and Evasive Tactics (5)....
Even lvl 60 Elite set won't save you.

Barb casted on you Kick (5)
Barb hit you 1000 damage
Barb hit you 1250 damage
Barb hit you critical 1700 Damage

:cuac:

P.S. Not talking about mages defence even...

Nonsense.

1. Crits are all about luck and the chance on gear, but still a lot on luck. You can't bring that into the argument.

2. I haven't seen any barb kill a 60 marks who has acro(5) and evasive(5) with 3 normals in one knock. Personally I think Acrobatics is the single most op buff.

3. Assumingly you got killed with crits, those are special circumstances when you have been hit with the last 2 hits of tfb buffed with fulminating and other weapon buffs.

As I see it, this thread will go into another barb whine direction. Barbs had kick and feint, whine about it to oblivion and got feint taken off, now whine above kick... I don't think people will stop until the barb class has been nerfed to smithereens,. then enjoy your rangenum as all seem to like that.

As NGD said, I agree, the problem is not the damage, but that knock duration, as in all general CCs.


While on the original topic, I voted neutral.

[bois]

/me voted Other.

I have nothing against buffs and auras. IMO the main problem comes from constant damage reduction from armor that deeply wrongs low damage dealers: low level players and those who want to use fast weapons.

Solution: Damage and proportionality
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=76545

Did not vote. I second the post quoted above.

[tjanex]

I play a barb and I feel defenses are too high. I mean it takes 2 whole hits for someone to die, sometimes 3. It's a travesty.


:cuac:

I agree, as lvl 54 Hunter I hit 30-40 on lvl 60 barbs, while they get me KO so easily. Then not to mention the speed Barbs can have :P

[roonwick]

crits are not special circumstances. they are a property that increases the average damage of normal hits. spells cannot crit, unfortunately.

[_Seinvan]

Knight armor is fine as it is IMO, they're meant to be tanks, no? ;D

Give Barbs back the old Berserk malus (-100% protection) or instead of Evade Chance add on top of it -100% spell resistance. Or remove frenzy, and give it to knights xD

[Castingbeast]

Give Barbs back the old Berserk malus (-100% protection) or instead of Evade Chance add on top of it -100% spell resistance. Or remove frenzy, and give it to knights xD

Yeah, delete the whole barb class as it is, let warriors be only knights or remain as warriors only!!

Nerf everything, remove armors, decrease mana and hp for everyone, lower "x" spells's duration and raise "y" spell's cool down.
Oh, and stop adding new spells or rework useless ones.

Wellcome to Nerfnum Online :rale:.

[NSer]

Yeah, delete the whole barb class as it is, let warriors be only knights or remain as warriors only!!

Nerf everything, remove armors, decrease mana and hp for everyone, lower "x" spells's duration and raise "y" spell's cool down.
Oh, and stop adding new spells or rework useless ones.

Wellcome to Nerfnum Online :rale:.

Lolz we have already a bunch of clearly Op spells that need at least tweaking if not nerf.... if buff useless spells......They shoulda be at least as OP as warrior knocks are :D that some1 used 'em

[GIO879]

and what about the super boss ? nothing

I m felling very good when i hit evendim at 25 of damages and burn 1000 arrows and to get at the 200 gold, any chance to drop something now for archers ( marks and hunters) any area nothing thx NGD

And for the others things is the same hit a barb or a knight with 5000 pts of life at 100 or less damages .... let me count hooo 50 hits any chance to escape a barb now, 10 min to kill a knight and not enough mana to block him , and a super son of the wind to protect you from a kick or feint all is said in this post

to make damages buy 50 lucky box to find a super weapon
to protect you the same with the armor or major protection ....

That clear for me the archers needs more choice from the arrows damages not only piercing damages


be rich or die (words of the day)

[NSer]

and what about the super boss ? nothing

I m felling very good when i hit evendim at 25 of damages and burn 1000 arrows and to get at the 200 gold, any chance to drop something now for archers ( marks and hunters) any area nothing thx NGD

And for the others things is the same hit a barb or a knight with 5000 pts of life at 100 or less damages .... let me count hooo 50 hits any chance to escape a barb now, 10 min to kill a knight and not enough mana to block him , and a super son of the wind to protect you from a kick or feint all is said in this post

to make damages buy 50 lucky box to find a super weapon
to protect you the same with the armor or major protection ....

be rich or die (words of the day)

Erm? My avg geared lock do 200 normals on tenax when i got there on SM set. If ur archer hits 25 u either hunter either ur party is full of damage monkeys which don't have any debuffs :D

[GIO879]

Erm? My avg geared lock do 200 normals on tenax when i got there on SM set. If ur archer hits 25 u either hunter either ur party is full of damage monkeys which don't have any debuffs :D

yep with my marksman in full party and with the evendim bow ( i m a RA player)
and i talked about evendim not the dragon

maybe the amor of the boss are different

[NSer]

yep with my marksman in full party and with the evendim bow ( i m a RA player)
and i talked about evendim not the dragon

maybe the amor of the boss are different

Wel... my lvl5 meteor hits Daen which have neraly same armor as Eve(if Eve don't dispel himself from debuffs :/) hits him for 500+.. like avg barb :D Atho there is possibility to Eve to dispel his debuffs so bye bye normal damage on him (it's why it's quite a pain to kill this boss...

[_Nel_]

Boss armors work the same way as player armors. They have a fixed damage reduction.

Let's say, if your output is 220 damage per arrow and armor absorbs 200 damage, you'll do 20 effective damage per arrow. No matter your attack speed.
If your output is 600 per spell on the same target, you'll do 400 effective damage.

So you can't compare meteor and arrows.

Read again:
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=76545

EDIT:
You can do some tests with this tool if you switch it to advanced mode.
> http://kit.snuggly1.com/

[bois]

Yea Nel , I think a lot missed the point that those fixed damage/armour figures both on the bonus side for weapons and on the defensive side for armours are the areas that need to be looked at before we start waving around any nerf or buff stick.

Fixing conceptual errors in these base formulas will help mages and normals, fix dots, fix the disparity between low hit but faster weapons and higher hit but slower ones, armour damage reductions and weapon/ring/amulet boosts that scale improperly.
It will also seek to address stacking of defence spells which seem to have issues at the moment.

I would even go so far as to suggest spell focus/ resistance and hit chance (value on weapons and armour) as % values across the board.

[Seher]

Absolute damage reduction via armor is one thing (one thing NGD needs to get rid of), but there's still to much defense in this game. We need more heals instead of defense. It's way more fun to hit enemies for 1000 just to see it healed again than to hit them for ~5 damage. And it involves more action, more player skill, it's less item/damage based, ... Winwin.

[NSer]

Absolute damage reduction via armor is one thing (one thing NGD needs to get rid of), but there's still to much defense in this game. We need more heals instead of defense. It's way more fun to hit enemies for 1000 just to see it healed again than to hit them for ~5 damage. And it involves more action, more player skill, it's less item/damage based, ... Winwin.

And more conjurers...... :/

[Kitsuni]

And more conjurers...... :/
Probably not going to happen as long as they stay rediculously tedious to level. Don't get me wrong, its easy, but tedious.

Levelling conjuror is like a bad nightmare of badger badger except its buttons instead.

[NSer]

Boss armors work the same way as player armors. They have a fixed damage reduction.

Let's say, if your output is 220 damage per arrow and armor absorbs 200 damage, you'll do 20 effective damage per arrow. No matter your attack speed.
If your output is 600 per spell on the same target, you'll do 400 effective damage.

So you can't compare meteor and arrows.

Read again:
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=76545

EDIT:
You can do some tests with this tool if you switch it to advanced mode.
> http://kit.snuggly1.com/
P.S. when Boss with his full armor same spell does 20 damage :angel2: Anyways defences is damn high in this game :D

[Psynocide]

Knight armor is fine as it is IMO, they're meant to be tanks, no? ;D Or remove frenzy, and give it to knights xD

+1, we're the tanks so why is it the barbarians have two long duration defensive buffs?

[_Nel_]

+1, we're the tanks so why is it the barbarians have two long duration defensive buffs?

Because long time ago, Berserk had another strong debuff: -100% armor points. Now it's only -100% evade chance.

Berserk, 2 years ago:
> http://regnum.wikia.com/index.php?title=Berserk&oldid=21117

As offensive stance for knights (-95% armor), maybe a revert back to old berserk could be a good thing to balance barbs.

As barb, we will have to choose between very high damage + zero armor, or average damage + good armor.

EDIT:
I think this single modification could bring a very strong change to barbarian gameplay, since berserk is currently a must-have spell and is always on. Any other class would do pretty good damage to barbs under berserk. So they will have to choose wisely when to cast it.

[Kitsuni]

Because long time ago, Berserk had another strong debuff: -100% armor points. Now it's only -100% evade chance.

Berserk, 2 years ago:
> http://regnum.wikia.com/index.php?title=Berserk&oldid=21117

As offensive stance for knights (-95% armor), maybe a revert back to old berserk could be a good thing to balance barbs.

As barb, we will have to choose between very high damage + zero armor, or average damage + good armor.

EDIT:
I think this single modification could bring a very strong change to barbarian gameplay, since berserk is currently a must-have spell and is always on. Any other class would do pretty good damage to barbs under berserk. So they will have to choose wisely when to cast it.
You are right, Berserk was perfectly balanced as it was. Barbarians could rapidly kill you, but they also died extremely fast with it. The difference is, it required skill to use back then because you had to use it at just the right time (i.e, after opponent was knocked or stunned), in order to gain an advantage.

[ufkn]

You are right, Berserk was perfectly balanced as it was. Barbarians could rapidly kill you, but they also died extremely fast with it. The difference is, it required skill to use back then because you had to use it at just the right time (i.e, after opponent was knocked or stunned), in order to gain an advantage.

Back then the dmg was optimal too without berserk, tfb was enough with base, can't compare that and today's times. If done today, all barb would be doing is standing there buffing like an idiot after knocked/stunned opponent, buff with berserk, buff with fulmi..., by the time you get to swing one hit., the stun time gets over and you will be laying on your back on the ground.

[Vroek]

Back then the dmg was optimal too without berserk, tfb was enough with base, can't compare that and today's times. If done today, all barb would be doing is standing there buffing like an idiot after knocked/stunned opponent, buff with berserk, buff with fulmi..., by the time you get to swing one hit., the stun time gets over and you will be laying on your back on the ground.

True, they changed berserk and at the same time as they nerfed base damage and fixed TFB bug that we all took for granted back then.

also...

Caution was whole lot better, duration=cooldown and +80% protection.
Itemization may have started but it was far from the stage it is today with all weapon bonuses, boss items, quest items and gems. Ranged attack speed have alos been increased, all this makes for some crazy DPS on someone without or with low armour values.

[Psynocide]

Because long time ago, Berserk had another strong debuff: -100% armor points. Now it's only -100% evade chance.


I should have been a bit more pedantic.

"We're the tanks so why is it the barbarians *still* have two long duration defensive buffs?"

Better? :¬¬:

They should equalize things - offensive stance at least -50% or less, or remove frenzy from barbarians/give to knight.

[NSer]

I should have been a bit more pedantic.

"We're the tanks so why is it the barbarians *still* have two long duration defensive buffs?"

Better? :¬¬:

They should equalize things - offensive stance at least -50% or less, or remove frenzy from barbarians/give to knight.
Or just give berserk -50-60% armor rendering 1 of def buffs useless :D And 2nd will only thing which can keep barbs alive :D

[SilverHaven]

Also old berserk gave damage bonus, not weapon damage bonus as of now.

[NSer]

Also old berserk gave damage bonus, not weapon damage bonus as of now.

Ehm? Oftw was do this too... seems it was fix to damage binus names,no?
*reading 1.6.3 changelog*

[_Nel_]

I should have been a bit more pedantic.

"We're the tanks so why is it the barbarians *still* have two long duration defensive buffs?"

Better? :¬¬:

I should have been more pedantic too.

NGD tweaks spells and gameplay one piece at a time. And there is an update once every 1 or 2 years specifically dedicated to balance the gameplay as a whole.
First, they found that barbs died too quickly, so they removed the -100% armor debuff on berserk, keeping caution and frenzy as it is.
Two years later after lots of damage nerf on other class + new armor calculation + better armors, barbs can tank too.
We can bet on a future nerf of barb tanking possibilities. Who knows when it will happen, this balance update... next one...

Better? :¬¬:

[ufkn]

I should have been more pedantic too.

NGD tweaks spells and gameplay one piece at a time. And there is an update once every 1 or 2 years specifically dedicated to balance the gameplay as a whole.
First, they found that barbs died too quickly, so they removed the -100% armor debuff on berserk, keeping caution and frenzy as it is.
Two years later after lots of damage nerf on other class + new armor calculation + better armors, barbs can tank too.
We can bet on a future nerf of barb tanking possibilities. Who knows when it will happen, this balance update... next one...

Better? :¬¬:
Caution HAS been nerfed, its pretty much useless now and doesn't offer the value for the points invested., only way to use it is either use it at max (5) or don't use it.

And a lot of all this tanking nonsense talk overlooks the fact, that those who you think are tanks, have invested "significant" amount on xims in armour enhancements and special protective setups. They deserve to be tanks. Just because you find special circumstances like those doesn't make it reasonable to whine about the whole class.

Quoting you: Generalization is evil.

[Kitsuni]

Caution HAS been nerfed, its pretty much useless now and doesn't offer the value for the points invested., only way to use it is either use it at max (5) or don't use it.

And a lot of all this tanking nonsense talk overlooks the fact, that those who you think are tanks, have invested "significant" amount on xims in armour enhancements and special protective setups. They deserve to be tanks. Just because you find special circumstances like those doesn't make it reasonable to whine about the whole class.

Quoting you: Generalization is evil.
First of all, no one "Deserves" to be a tank for spending Ximerin. Second, this occurs on any barb that I face over certain levels.

Regarding Caution, you don't understand the game mechanics. As Chilko stated when it was changed, it gives the exact same amount of protection as before, only the base armor was increased so that players have all around more protection even when unbuffed. This means that the difference is lowered, but you still resist the same amount of damage as you did when buffed with Caution before the update. Take a look at my armor calculator (http://kit.snuggly1.com) which has it completely reverse-engineered.

The base piercing damage resistance of level 49 Lion armor is at least 235 unbuffed, which is 60-70% of the attack of a Marksman (Slow bow) and 100% of a Hunter. This doesn't even take into account Caution, Frenzy, damage resistance passives, the level 55+ armors, Warmaster armors, or armor enhancement gems. The spell that you call "useless", Caution, reduces 23 points of damage in this configuration on just level 1, which is about a 5% damage resistance increase against most opponents. Now, that may not seem like alot to you, but when you consider that you can have over 40% piercing resist not even related to armor, well...

This was pretty balanced prior to Warmasters update, however at level 60, all of this is very much possible to have at once (http://trainer.claninquisition.org/trainer.html?s=dh9qezzeaqaaaeaqaaaeaqDaaaaufaeLLuL fEaa).
(Especially now that Feint has been moved to Knights, freeing up 4-5 additional points... sadly the trainer hasn't been updated so wrong icon.)

Regarding the former state of Barbarians, I agree they have lost alot but they have also gained far more. Back in those days a Barbarian had to spend over 400 mana on Onslaught and then additional mana on Spring to start a charge, not just one spell like it is now. Even though they only have one skill for this now (Spring), overall movement speeds of non-mage classes have been greatly reduced. This, amoung other changes, have given Barbarians many advantages that they didn't have before, which make the amount of defense they have now problematic. The only option left is to kite a barb; and this is exactly the kind of mechanic that should be avoided. Players should not be forced into situations where they have to CC an enemy to death just to survive. Kiting and CC chaining should be used by skilled players, not be a basic requirement to play.

However, this is not an anti-barb thread. Please stay on topic.

[Psynocide]

=Who knows when it will happen, this balance update... next one...=
Watching NGD try to balance the classes is like watching someone play golf on ice - the ball's going everywhere but in the hole.

But we can dream right? ..Right?

[GIO879]

Watching NGD try to balance the classes is like watching someone play golf on ice - the ball's going everywhere but in the hole.

But we can dream right? ..Right?

yep but it was more balanced before the 1.5 versions the only wrong points was the hunters specialy the pets damages only 1-2 points to fix but now ...... omg ....... all is broken

[harrrr]

/me voted Other.

I have nothing against buffs and auras. IMO the main problem comes from constant damage reduction from armor that deeply wrongs low damage dealers: low level players and those who want to use fast weapons.

Solution: Damage and proportionality
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=76545

at first i wasn't sure what you were getting at or if i liked it. but that link made it pretty obvious. this was not something i was aware of, but using constants for damage redux is a bad idea. a certain armor value should reduce damage by a certain percentage (and show that percentage in the character sheet.) that is how armor works in every other game, and for a good reason: it makes sense.

[chilko]

/me voted Other.

I have nothing against buffs and auras. IMO the main problem comes from constant damage reduction from armor that deeply wrongs low damage dealers: low level players and those who want to use fast weapons.

Solution: Damage and proportionality
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=76545

Hehe... It would be cool if you guys got to see this code.
Let's just say that in theory you guys are on the right track, we added %based protections to have a more balanced system.
The problem is that previous implementation is a nightmare and we need to provide a solution that does not break all items in the game

[Kitsuni]

Hehe... It would be cool if you guys got to see this code.
Let's just say that in theory you guys are on the right track, we added %based protections to have a more balanced system.
The problem is that previous implementation is a nightmare and we need to provide a solution that does not break all items in the game
As I suggested in another thread, currently the protection (%) bonuses on armor, and the resistances themselves, are just a bonus to armor points rather than a percent-based damage resistance. If this were changed to damage resistance (like Acrobatics, Frenzy, Army of one and similar), the normal armor points (AP) of the armor that provide a fixed amount of protection against damage would not be overpowered. The overpowered part is that you can have armor with 235+10 AP per piece (Warmaster armor), and then have that piece actually give (235*1.6)+10=386 AP against a damage it is Very good to... and that is WITHOUT any buffs on the player.

I believe you can see the problem with this system... and also think that there are even items in the game with an "Excellent" resistance to certain types of damage, these get a 90% bonus to the armor points on the item. Thankfully these items are only from quests or dropped by dragons and are not very good.

I invite members of NGD to play around with my armor calculator (http://kit.snuggly1.com). It has been reverse-engineered from in-game results and is not perfect but has been found to be at least 98% accurate for the calculations of damage reductions from armor. After spending some time with this tool, you will quickly see that when armor is used in combinations with buffs, a person's defense can skyrocket to the point where they are only taking as low as 10 damage from other players. This makes high level, highly armored players virtually immune to attacks from lower players (even ten levels lower), low DPS classes such as Hunters and Knights, and fast weaponry.

Recently my level 54 Hunter did 8-10 damage hits (with a slow, high damage bow) on a Marksman of the same level, without any allied buffs on him.

I do not think the code needs a complete rewrite, as it does seem to work fine as it is. Just force the resistances of all armors to "Normal" in the fixed damage reduction code (which prevents any increase or decrease of AP) and make each armor piece give the player a damage resistance like the buffs... hacking it like this may not seem like the most ideal option but currently some classes are unable to even scratch certain armor/buff configurations on enemies.

So instead of looking like this:
Armor points: 200
Slash: Good
Piercing: Very good
Blunt: Bad
Fire: Very bad
Ice: Good
Lightning: Very good

A piece of armor would look like this:
Resist slashing damage +5%
Resist piercing damage +5%
Resist fire damage +5%
Ice vulnerability +5%

... to give an armor that would be resistant to slashing, piercing and fire, weak to ice, and normal to blunt and lightning.
(Keep in mind there are five pieces of armor per player, six for Knights and three for mages.)

The overall armor points levels in the game do need to be reduced by maybe 20% per part, but that is a problem for another time.

[Seher]

Hehe... It would be cool if you guys got to see this code.
Let's just say that in theory you guys are on the right track, we added %based protections to have a more balanced system.
The problem is that previous implementation is a nightmare and we need to provide a solution that does not break all items in the game

I always am. :D

Good to see you're aware of that problem as well. I was wondering how long you were going to postpone dual wielding or if you were actually going to try dual wielding with the old armor calculation.

[_Nel_]

Hehe... It would be cool if you guys got to see this code.
Let's just say that in theory you guys are on the right track, we added %based protections to have a more balanced system.
The problem is that previous implementation is a nightmare and we need to provide a solution that does not break all items in the game

Lol I would love to see your code.

But don't trust me, I would make it public to let players discuss and find the best way to tweak it in order to get a full proportional system. :angel2:

[isgandarli]

Lol I would love to see your code.

But don't trust me, I would make it public to let players discuss and find the best way to tweak it in order to get a full proportional system. :angel2:

Regnum goes open-source :clapclap:

[NSer]

Regnum goes open-source :clapclap:

Won't believe it + today's not 1st April :d

[harrrr]

Hehe... It would be cool if you guys got to see this code.
Let's just say that in theory you guys are on the right track, we added %based protections to have a more balanced system.
The problem is that previous implementation is a nightmare and we need to provide a solution that does not break all items in the game

such is the plight of a video game developer (MMO especially).

then again, amun exists for precisely this reason. work up a system that works on paper, put it on amun. let the players do the work of finding out what is broken and what works as intended.

plan a "war-date" for players to get online and duke it out and test how the new system works in PvP situations as well as RvR.

IRRELEVANT: does anyone else notice how archers are unhappy with this system more than twice as much as everyone else combined (neutral excluded)? not pointing fingers or blaming anyone or anything. just an odd phenomenon.

[tjanex]

I think mostly Hunters are very disappointed with the updates that are already implented for example the Ambush 'nerf', short durations. Hunters are very UP at the moment. I fought some Hunters today with my Marks and I didnt even lost 1/4th of my hp and they were almost dead.

[Kitsuni]

I think mostly Hunters are very disappointed with the updates that are already implented for example the Ambush 'nerf', short durations. Hunters are very UP at the moment. I fought some Hunters today with my Marks and I didnt even lost 1/4th of my hp and they were almost dead.
Its pretty harsh on support conjs too, I think most have dropped all but Ivy, Beetle swarm and Mind push. Keep in mind that support Conjurors tend to use these spells at levels 1-3, so they aren't too strong on that class, they pretty much always depended on their quantity of mental spells for defense rather than the effectiveness. With WD nerf, nerfs to the durations of other spells and Beetle swarm no longer passing UM, life of a Conjuror is harder than ever. Nerfing Confuse to 22 seconds doesn't really do much if they don't have an object to hide behind.. Although with how rediculously weak Hunters are now, you won't see them often, so I doubt you will see Confuse much anymore as well!

And still nothing done about Marksman's Winter stroke or Strategic position. I've spent some time warring on Horus again lately and honestly playing my Marksman feelings too cheap with how weak other classes have become. If you get a small group of them, it takes a zerg to kill you... and one vs one is pretty laughworthy. With the old implementation of crowd control spells, Marx weren't nearly this powerful (though still OP), but with the new implementation even small ranges like 30m are godly. With their high defense, the Marksman only had one vulnerability before which was his slow movement speed and thus tendancy to fall prey to CC chains.

I fear that if something isn't done about that soon it will become a gameplay-destroying problem in all servers. Several solutions exist, such as nerfing Winter stroke, removing Strategic position (allowing others to deal sufficient damage to him regardless of ranged or not) or removal of SOTW from Marx. I don't count the Confuse nerf because let's face it, a Marksman never needed that spell anyway. When your buffs outdo every other class in the game in tanking ability, preventing them from buffing doesn't really matter as you will always out-DPS them (excepting barbs, who could be kited). I guess we will see how it goes and hope NGD takes these things into consideration.

Overall I feel that most classes are pretty well balanced now. Support Conjs need some kind of buff, Hunters need a buff and Marx need a nerf, but that's it. Barb is possible to destroy now with that low knock duration and only one knock spell, kudos to NGD for finally solving that problem... but keep in mind they still tank too much.