Balances way - conjurers forgotten?

[faszombele]

Hello,

I understand that you, NGD, try to make sub-classes closer to balances, but conjurers are still easy victims.
I'm getting to loose my faith in NGD when I see that my full self-defend buffed lvl 60 conjurer is perfect easaly byte for a half- or non-buffed barbar. One kick+a normal+a south cross dmg and conjurer will be able to chooze where to wanna ressurect.
What if when barbars would have chance to kill them?

[UmarilsStillHere]

What if when barbars would have chance to kill them?
Are you asking why your conju can't kill a barb? You seem to be, but maybe your point is lost in translation a bit.

I'd agree that support conjus are underpowered at well, supporting, but making them stronger has an effect on everything else, so you have to be careful with it, decreasing everyones defence while also increasing support viability to try and keep the same sort of balance, but with conjus being more important.

[HidraA]

Somehow i am agree conj need better defence.

I play conj ..but usual i must gave up at features as DI or Resurect to get better defence....maybe swap.
Maybe get ride of a few useless spells or convert them to passive resist at elemental+phisical wll help.
I don't want back old warjourers and realy i enjoy my support conjurer ...but conj die too fast and has no offensive spells...some better defence maybe can help.

Somehow unfair for offensive classes to have defence as warriors 3 kind of passive resists at phisical ,and 5 armor pices that can be enchanted and a conj to have only a spells that can be disabled via MS.

[ieti]

Most of probs in encounter conj VS barb is Mind Squasher. If it fails you have relatively good chance to survive and be helped by allies. Else yup most of times dead meat. This do not stop me to try with all mental i got. xD

SS, Karma, Barrier + Mental are good against them, BUT if MS come...things are not good.

[_Seinvan]

Psst, use the mental tree (particularly mindpush/beetleswarm) to keep warriors off of you since your allies are not always 100% reliable :angel1:

[Kitsuni]

Psst, use the mental tree (particularly mindpush/beetleswarm) to keep warriors off of you since your allies are not always 100% reliable :angel1:
If you get hit with MS, the mental tree isn't going to do anything to save you. At least remove the weapon damage from it, NGD.

[faszombele]

Psst, use the mental tree (particularly mindpush/beetleswarm) to keep warriors off of you since your allies are not always 100% reliable :angel1:

Thx. ;) But you have no right. There ain't no time to use spells. Just mind when you see a barbar running to you and you have to decide what you should to do?
- Does he has DI? - Then mindpush works only.
- No DI? - Very fast buff your defences as you can in 1.5 secs.

You are a conjurer who's spellbook is full of heals an other otherones' defending/helping spells? You won't have DP for your more defences and attack spells...

Mind it: actually conjurers turned to the perfect standalone victims of Regnum. I hope balance way will be continue with more conjurer passive def. spells what written by someone above. Or needs more DPs.

[ieti]

You are right and wrong. Conjurer indeed die alot this days. It is primary target after all. Many conjurers run around with hybrid setups which boost defense and offense. This sacrifice alot of heals, but gives more chance to survive.

Bigger part of my setup is on defensive buffs and mental. I left only most needed heals.

Steel Skin can be turned back to 90%. Static Field can be made 10 range so it is usable and we are not in barb dead zone when we use it. Our spells can be made faster, because we are very busy class and Devotion is a pain.

Conjurer was alot more fun before, but now it is more challenging.

[HidraA]

Bigger part of my setup is on defensive buffs and mental. I left only most needed heals.


Maybe i have troble because my conj is not yet lvl 60 ,so i cant aford mental ,but i have defense buffs ,and gave up at tons of heals and buff ally spells to get my own defense...also sacrified tons of heal and resurect only lvl 1... and gave up at sanctuar too.

The main issue for a class that don't deals dmg is damg weak class...with onslaught a warrior and fulminanting made on me over 2k crits...died in 2 hits on normal hit,and instant knoked was not escape....

I can understand a class that deals ton of dmg or spamm CC areas as warlock to be weack ,but a conj that heals ally and deals 0 dmg and try to heal his ally to cover insane dmg nowdays ..is damn weack...

And about stil skin....3 stuked dots +ethereal kill you even in still skin very fast anyway....

I think conj needs to be enchanted a bit,and maybe with areas that heals ally that enjuried in the near of target,to avoid OP in hunt/pvp situation and be used in RvR situation...maybe passe greater healling from fixed HP points to % heal.

[Healerous]

mindpush is very tricky.
nowadays it seems Roar got a higher range than mindpush.
so if u decide to defend urself with slow'ering the barb u mostly risk a knock/stun too.
the other thing is, did u try to support ur allies in sanc? no disp, mainly low mana, slow heals especially against a warriors group/zerg?
"i can heal dead ppl" erica? quote totally fits there.
casting savior in sanc, when ur selected ally is being attacked by 2 warriors usually ends with a dead ally and savior on cd.
ur ally prolly didnt even get the hp's of savior, if its bad timed + the mana is spent/gone.

afterall im still enjoying my conju most of the time (cuz i got HotW, which gives a bit more time in openfield at least) but yes jeti is right about Mindsquash.
there is usually no way out after a working MS + BA is mostly incoming aswell.

Removing the damage of MS isnt really an option for me neither. it would just make DI more OP. So? like Scias and other said - maybe make it knight only spell?

Also have to agree with Umaril - conju is hard to improve/buff and usually ends up with a totally OP class in 1vs1 situations.

imo, NGD needs to find a way, to make the conju-class more attractive to new players and balance a few things. castingtimes, manacosts, heals amount, gcd's.

anyways, its still a funny/enjoyable class, when u got the right ppl around u!
thx enio, po, asdaf, mya, ruthless, Strzaskator, river, ulti, franky, siwy, rhany and all i forgot ;)

p.s i still would like to see passiv arc dev ^^

[NSer]

p.s i still would like to see passiv arc dev ^^

I tooooooo,on my lock :D

[Gabburtjuh]

I agree that conjs die easy once you're hitting them with your barb, 3 or 4 hits can do it if the conj doesn't have karma mirror/steel skin, but you could also look at the barb trying to kill him/her... a rushing barb is a really nice target for lock dots and marks, and your own warriors, in a open field it's not as easy as it sometimes looks to even get to a conj...
I do agree that they could use a defense buff, like a self target mat wall maybe?

On arc dev passive, nty, it's a vital spell yes, but other classes don't have their vital spells passive either do they? Not to mention that it's shared with locks and warju's.

[NSer]

I agree that conjs die easy once you're hitting them with your barb, 3 or 4 hits can do it if the conj doesn't have karma mirror/steel skin, but you could also look at the barb trying to kill him/her... a rushing barb is a really nice target for lock dots and marks, and your own warriors, in a open field it's not as easy as it sometimes looks to even get to a conj...
I do agree that they could use a defense buff, like a self target mat wall maybe?

On arc dev passive, nty, it's a vital spell yes, but other classes don't have their vital spells passive either do they? Not to mention that it's shared with locks and warju's.

Marx have it's vital activable spell :D,ain't he?

[Healerous]

what do u mean by vital spells?
yeah to fix the arc dev problem with locks/warjus - just give us (support conjus) instant or at least 0,5 castingtimes back :)
like for savior, sanc, greater regen/heal. it wouldnt hurt anyone!

[ieti]

I actually like being a priority target. Thing i do not like is that every barb around have 1 spell win button. I see barb and i manage to prepare and buff. Sometimes it is around 1k of mana. Spells which will make me survive.

POOF ALL DOWN!

http://i55.tinypic.com/2n8mwps.jpg

Here you go 2 MS in a row. It was suicide but it is just to show. Hey i resisted one! Huzzah! :D

No buffs, No Devotion...i can not even cast some mental anymore because this spells are slower ones. Even self heals are painfully slow without devotion. All left is conju to run and struggle to try to do something.

Situation is like Confuse before.

Ooh healer i remember when conjus used only fast staff and no devotion. This was awesome times...sigh i miss them >.<

[Healerous]

yeah jeti those old times :/ fast staves + acceleration ftw hehe

tho, i just can agree with u. after a successful MS, u are usually more busy in struggling around, trying to do something before the death claims u.

and about the vital spells dutch mentioned. its a good point what dutch said.

every class prolly got their primary attribute as a passive.

barbs damage
knights const/block
(warriors in general got the option to use str/dex/pierc-/blunt-/slashing damage resistances passives)

marks range/damage (counting recharged arrows as a passive here).
hunters just got speed? (hunters need a buff anyways)
(archers in general can use hc? and dex passive)

locks vital absorb (dunno if its even working, is it?)
conjus Inisghtful spell duration extension
(mages in general can use int/manapool)

from my point of view(correct me when im wrong) warriors and marks are more benefited from their passives than mages and hunters, cuz their passives granting u
a) more defense/more hp
b) more damage/longer range
c) to keep more aggro

while mages just got the mana to do
a) more damage
b) trying to share as much heals/mana/buffs as possible

afterall i dont blame any of those classes/passives - im just saying conju's need some buff to support their allies in a better way
(like i said above - shorter castingtimes, maybe shorter castingtimes, maybe higher heal amount need to be tested).
and yes NGD really have to improve hunters aswell.

[Phlue4]

puuh, Karma mirror, barrier, steelskin, selfheal... Conju is still a tank.
Only thing that is needed about the conjurers is an increasement of the heal amount. (500 HP on a 5500-HP-knight? lol)

[_Enio_]

That whole DI and MS issue is somehow messed up. I dont find solutions that balance one situation but not imbalance another.
Eventually make MS only dispell offensive buffs, would lead to some powers be more powerful, or rather make its power stick out more. And then theres that randomness on it which again isnt nice too.
And DI - maybe allow it only on defensive classes? Its needed for support classes but quite op on barbs, and strong on locks, marks.

Best i can come up with but still flawed.

[ieti]

Conju is tank till he got buffs on. Else it is just a mage - as squishy as lock. True i can tank, but this is because i need to support my allies. This comes with price - constant mana struggle, highly targeted, always first priority.

Conju is unpopular class really. New high level conjus we see lately are 1 or 2. Even then some of them choose other classes. And most conjus i see in battle are old ones.

Stress, demand, hard to survive, bullied by all classes...

What happened with "gods love their priests" as i remember it was sayed in one spell?

[NSer]

That whole DI and MS issue is somehow messed up. I dont find solutions that balance one situation but not imbalance another.
Eventually make MS only dispell offensive buffs, would lead to some powers be more powerful, or rather make its power stick out more. And then theres that randomness on it which again isnt nice too.
And DI - maybe allow it only on defensive classes? Its needed for support classes but quite op on barbs, and strong on locks, marks.

Best i can come up with but still flawed.

Erm maybe make MS dispels n spells per lvl? liek 1 on 1 and so on? 1st it solves random problem,2nd it makes this spell less die or kill one

[_Enio_]

Erm maybe make MS dispels n spells per lvl? liek 1 on 1 and so on? 1st it solves random problem,2nd it makes this spell less die or kill one

That would be way too powerful in some cases and still random as you cant control which buffs you dispell.

[NSer]

That would be way too powerful in some cases and still random as you cant control which buffs you dispell.

Last ones?
Anyways earlier MS1 could dispel even 20 buffs which is worse imo.

[harrrr]

Hello,

I understand that you, NGD, try to make sub-classes closer to balances, but conjurers are still easy victims.
I'm getting to loose my faith in NGD when I see that my full self-defend buffed lvl 60 conjurer is perfect easaly byte for a half- or non-buffed barbar. One kick+a normal+a south cross dmg and conjurer will be able to chooze where to wanna ressurect.
What if when barbars would have chance to kill them?

this problem may stem from the fact that in most MMORPG games, the healer is not a mage,rogue, or warrior, but generally another class, many games call them clerics. these clerics are chainmail wearing players who have high defence and are healing masters.

the problem with this for regnum is that a mage-conjurer is already the (only) healing class and if it becomes a chainmail wearing cleric, MANY MANY things will break (in terms of balance). so balancing the conjurers survivablilty with mage fundamentals is a tricky and possibly insurmountable task. and if nothing else, will make the game development seem kinda sloppy.

this next idea is a bit more plausable, but still.... unlikely. if conjurers were given a spell similar to defensive stance (it would some sort of magical armor thing), it would solve the conjurer's defense problem (but remember that one can not use offensive skills during this skill, and would be canceled by sanctuary).

the main problem here is that it is very very difficult for allies to protect the conjurers because all it takes is one barb to rush through with UM and kick the conjurer. the barb will stay focused on the conjurer and no one can "disable" the barb (in terms of CCs). the only possible protection that an ally can give to the conjurer is shield wall or protect ally (which, in either case is of very little assistance).

steel skin is useful in this regard, but most healers don't want to use the points to kill that far into sorcery or want to use the power points elsewhere because it detracts from their healing abilities.

[Psynocide]

SS, Karma, Barrier + Mental are good against them, BUT if MS come...things are not good.

If MS is successful on pretty much any class, they're screwed unless they have backup.

Hence why MS should be none damaging (So DI prevents it).

If you get hit with MS, the mental tree isn't going to do anything to save you. At least remove the weapon damage from it, NGD.

Mind push and beetle swarm are to be used *prior* to being hit by MS, as in to prevent it :tsk_tsk:

this problem may stem from the fact that in most MMORPG games, the healer is not a mage,rogue, or warrior, but generally another class, many games call them clerics. these clerics are chainmail wearing players who have high defence and are healing masters.


One reason why I'll be playing Guild Wars 2 when it releases, no relying on a specific class that is handicapped alone for me :)

[NotScias]

If MS is successful on pretty much any class, they're screwed unless they have backup.

Well but Mages suffer the most because most of the spells are >1s casting time and it takes too much time to cast spells without it, while warriors and archers can still do something or run away using instant or nearly instant spells.

Hence why MS should be none damaging (So DI prevents it).

I think it would be a bad solution and would only increase the OPness of DI and the overbuffed + DI people.
I think MS is a necessary spell and the only one that can get rid of DI. I would not like DI + UM + overbuffed and overhealed barbs be completely safe with MS being impossible to be cast on them while they can on most of his targets. Sadly noadays we need something effective versus these overbuffed people since it has become very usual...

So I keep thinking the best solution is to give MS "as is" to knights only. This way it'd also promote this class as they'd be the only one to have this spell.

[Psynocide]

Well but Mages suffer the most because most of the spells are >1s casting time and it takes too much time to cast spells without it, while warriors and archers can still do something or run away using instant or nearly instant spells.


Yes and no.
Mages are effected substantially by MS but mind push may potentially save them and usually only two buffs are removed.
Although if MS is cast on a knight or a barbarian at an opportune time, the person in question usually bites the dust a few seconds later.
IE: MS on a barbarian that has cast UM and is relying on its protection from CCs can then be knocked and taken out as it often takes a second or two to notice that the buff's been dispelled.
In order for a knight to function properly, he must cast a myriad of buffs (caution, weapon style buff, defensive support, stances not to mention auras)
MS cast on a knight buffed as such is crippling not just for the knight but the zerg in general as the auras are debuffed and the knight has to retreat and is consequently unable to support the zerg (SW, protect ally, CCs), without being vulnerable to a quick dispatching due to not having his own buffs.
Although a knight stands a better chance of surviving due to PB.


I think it would be a bad solution and would only increase the OPness of DI and the overbuffed + DI people.
I think MS is a necessary spell and the only one that can get rid of DI. I would not like DI + UM + overbuffed and overhealed barbs be completely safe with MS being impossible to be cast on them while they can on most of his targets. Sadly noadays we need something effective versus these overbuffed people since it has become very usual...

So I keep thinking the best solution is to give MS "as is" to knights only. This way it'd also promote this class as they'd be the only one to have this spell.
Perhaps.
I do not want knights to end up being a debuffing or CCer class though.

[_Enio_]

The more i think about it the more i like it:
Make MS5 100% dispell offensive buffs only.


See, we got lots of situations where we have stacked defenses which currently have only MS as a counter, however thats not very elegant and rather hides some more problems we have with some stacked defenses and creates the mentioned problem on mages losing Devotion with it in CD.

Stacked defense problem isnt solved by just saying there is MS, no need to address. Same to the DI vs no DI imbalance.

Also the dynamic on barb play could change. I.e. save some buffs and spread em in case of possible MS etc.

What do you think?

[blood-raven]

So I keep thinking the best solution is to give MS "as is" to knights only. This way it'd also promote this class as they'd be the only one to have this spell.

I think this will worsen the problem because only 1 class will be able to tackle the overbuffed ppl out there.
I agree tough it should be removed from barbs but i would give a similar spell to locks for example.

[ieti]

We got 1 Healer, 1 range attacker, 1 melee damager, 1 area / dot bomber...why not to have an supportive class which main role is to CC and debuff. I see nothing wrong in this knight role. In hands of skilled player it is very effective and powerful. Combined with auras this is what knights will be happy with.

Not so sure in fact, but knights need more distinct role - they need to be not another low damage barbs. When they used auras more widely this was sometimes when they turned the battle.

Knight debuffer - why not?

I think MS is perfect spell as concept. Changing it will lead to more problems and will make even harder to balance. I remember knights as Beardo, Roofio and others who was feared. Barbs got enough tools to kill - give this to knights and fix more of their spells. Spell fixing applies to all classes.

I remember several spells which got changed and this way ruined - Sultar's Terror, Protection Dome, Wind Wall, Mana Comm. Maybe there are others. Two of them "Sultar - Dome" was perfect opposites. Changing of dome lead to terror spams we all know.

Scias is right that conjus and mages in common are very dependent of Devotion. Most of spells simply can not be casted and timed good without it. Most of mages depend of devotion to cast spells nearly on the move. Debuffed that way gives nearly innability to react in time.

MS can be given more distinct animation, more distinct sound, bigger cooldown, bigger cast time, bigger mana cost. Anything. Right now as Enio said most of the times target sees it is debuffed several seconds later which maybe is thing that kills.

[HidraA]

I dont think is only MS the main issue of a conj,i dont get why all ppl count only MS in this balance.

My main troble as conj is heal my alys.
Solo heals must stay like this because highter heals will help vs warriors but will imbalance vs archers and slow dps made by mages.

I think the solution must be to focus to RvR situations.

More areas with heals for conj:

.1 Get ride of mass resurect....never worked..only old VS but vary rare used by conj to sacrifice they self for resurect others,and replace it with other area with heals in % style but to be able to be casted only if there is a enjuried guy next to the target that you click,like this is a sure a rvr spell.

.2 Share elemental passive resist from warlock with conj ,put them both in same tree.

Are not big changes but i think thi will not affect too much other classes.

About remove barbs MS ...hmm is a bit triky,think at other classes ....a barb to deal dmg needs buufs...no bufs for barb = knight dmg on a knight...knight has better armor...and now 2 knocks....MS better stays in same way...

[Southbound]

So I keep thinking the best solution is to give MS "as is" to knights only. This way it'd also promote this class as they'd be the only one to have this spell.

I don't agree!

The REAL problem/disbalance we see in game today is how easy a barb can reach conjus thx to beacons/horn/di.

First off I suggest a small dmg for mind push (like old burst of wind, to help from di:d barbs)
Second, HoTW just have to go :/ I hate this spell and simply brings in too much imbalance on who got the most wm:s on atm!

[ufkn]

I don't agree!

The REAL problem/disbalance we see in game today is how easy a barb can reach conjus thx to beacons/horn/di.

First off I suggest a small dmg for wind push (like old burst of wind, to help from di:d barbs)
Second, HoTW just have to go :/ I hate this spell and simply brings in too much imbalance on who got the most wm:s on atm!

Agree with this. If you make MS a knight only spell, so it becomes mandatory that a knight is always required in a war... imagine a situation where buffed zergs pound on knightless smaller groups.. what would happen then? who would care for them even having barbs with them but lacking ms and a knight?.. This all sounds like zergs just want to farm off the mill idea to me without being countered.

As powerful as MS is, maybe make it a one sided debuff spell, like either remove all offense buffs or defense buffs, or a few of last applied buffs could work too.

[AariEv]

I don't agree!

The REAL problem/disbalance we see in game today is how easy a barb can reach conjus thx to beacons/horn/di.

First off I suggest a small dmg for wind push (like old burst of wind, to help from di:d barbs)
Second, HoTW just have to go :/ I hate this spell and simply brings in too much imbalance on who got the most wm:s on atm!

Mind push does wonders yes, but this spell can not be the answer to dealing with barbs especially since (as Scias has pointed out) the range of roar is greater than that of mind push. So yea, you can mind push all you want, but one roar and you're back to square 1......which is less than 1m away from a barb. I still find the spell extremely helpful, but once again it's not the answer to barbarians.

Right now in RO, there is a class capable of dealing 2.5k and above damage at a fast rate while also possessing the ability to remove any and all active buffs...... and this isn't wrong to you?

In my opinion, the issue isn't about preventing barbs from reaching you because from my perspective, this will happen sooner or later. From what I've seen, the issue is that once a skilled barb gets to a support conju, if you're knocked and MS'd (or just plain MS'd), you're pretty much fucked......energy barrier, arcane devotion, mind blank, steel skin, karma mirror.....all gone, leaving you vulnerable to normal hits averaging around half your hp in addition to spells . enough said.

Agree with this. If you make MS a knight only spell, so it becomes mandatory that a knight is always required in a war... imagine a situation where buffed zergs pound on knightless smaller groups.. what would happen then? who would care for them even having barbs with them but lacking ms and a knight?.. This all sounds like zergs just want to farm off the mill idea to me without being countered.

As powerful as MS is, maybe make it a one sided debuff spell, like either remove all offense buffs or defense buffs, or a few of last applied buffs could work too.

So, you're implying that MS is required to win wars? And you even go onto say that if knights were the only ones who had MS, without a knight it will be hard to counter and win wars because apparently it's hard to win without it? huh....

I've seen groups of players without knights farm larger amounts of players with knights. I'm sorry but in no way can I agree with what you just wrote.

Anyway, I'd personally support giving MS to knights only

[Yttrium]

I think a better solution is to remove DI and MS.

If DI is removed, then Confuse and Darkness must also be removed. I think the game would be better off without all four of these spells.

[Latan]

i have a lvl 60 WM knight and no barbarian, and i think that a mind squash only in knight's hands would be too much. in knight's tree would mean in shield or vanguard, so it would mean that EVERY KNIGHT will have mind squash with every weapon.

atm, as a warrior, you have 3 choises:
1) slash: heavy damage, SC/typhoon monkey
2) blunt: piercing resist, MS
3) spears: heavy damage, range

with a MS as a knight-only spell, we would have EVERY barbarian and every knight with 80% slash + 20% piercing weapons and nobody would use blunt ones.
the weapon trees need an almost global revamp, not only a single spell. the game should bring to have a unique setup for every player with 10 usefull spells per tree, not only 2-3 spells that define your role

[NotScias]

with a MS as a knight-only spell, we would have EVERY barbarian and every knight with 80% slash + 20% piercing weapons and nobody would use blunt ones.
the weapon trees need an almost global revamp, not only a single spell. the game should bring to have a unique setup for every player with 10 usefull spells per tree, not only 2-3 spells that define your role

Why do you think it's not possible to revamp these trees AND in the meanwhile do something for MS ?
I know that if MS is removed/revamped now, 99.9% of barbs will go slash forever...

But it's right, all the weapon trees need to be revised first, especially boosting the piercing and blunt trees.

As for MS itself, well maybe it's better to change it instead of moving it to knights, depends how it is changed thought...

If DI is removed, then Confuse and Darkness must also be removed. I think the game would be better off without all four of these spells.

Confuse and Darkness may be annoying, but they are necessary else there would be no reliable way to stop healers from healing, buffing, etc...
They aren't a big deal in RvR.

[Yttrium]

Confuse and Darkness may be annoying, but they are necessary else there would be no reliable way to stop healers from healing, buffing, etc...
They aren't a big deal in RvR.

You mean, no reliable way with one spell? I don't agree that there should be a single-spell way to disable a support conjurer. Being the highest-priority target, a support conjurer already has enough to deal with. It's even easy to ignore a support conjurer and out-damage the heals.

Also, Confuse and Darkness are indeed a big deal in RvR, especially if DI, the only counter, were removed. Confuse isn't as bad if there is a free dispel around; if not, a support conjurer might as well go afk for 10-22 seconds.

[NSer]

You mean, no reliable way with one spell? I don't agree that there should be a single-spell way to disable a support conjurer. Being the highest-priority target, a support conjurer already has enough to deal with. It's even easy to ignore a support conjurer and out-damage the heals.

Also, Confuse and Darkness are indeed a big deal in RvR, especially if DI, the only counter, were removed. Confuse isn't as bad if there is a free dispel around; if not, a support conjurer might as well go afk for 10-22 seconds.

Just remove confuse and DI but leave darkness,,,, imo it's strong debuff but have 1.short range 2. 1 sec cast (with AD) 3. 2 mins cd

[HidraA]

Meh...why you trolling so much about MS and DI ?.....i think both of them are pretty good balanced.

Any other contructive ideas about conj maybe?

[ieti]

- Mana Comm is pretty useless now. True before it was too much and everyone was bathing in mana. It can be changed to give same amount of mana as it now, but for shorter work time.

Make mana per tick bigger and work time shorter. Total mana will be same, but spell will be more usable to boost team efficiency in the right time. For example 30s / 30 tick is nice for level 5 of this spell.

- Remove pylon stacking or put a limit of stacking. Let's say 2-4 pylons can stack.

- Static Field is pretty good spell - give it better area and if it is too powerful reduce slow down to 20%.

- Ambitious suicide must be fixed.

- Life Saver is limited on mana and cooldown. Make it faster to cast. Most of times we saver dead allies.

- Mass Ressurect - unused, useless, annoying chance cr*p.

- Ressurect dizzy must be fixed. Now it eats effect of first spell casted which is uber annoying.

- Force Armour, Shifting Siluette, Friendly Shielding need fixing revamping.

- Some spell animations need serious revamp. For example Mind Blank one - why it is needed to have this rotating thing on the ground? Sparkly stuff is pretty enough. Force Armour animation is even worse - ugly useless rotating stuff and bright upper part.

- Most of Staff Mastery needs serious revamp.

- Dispell and Heals mana cost need little tone down. This spells are fast and easy eat conju mana pool. It is pretty difficult to keep good mana balance in a busy fight. Revert this change please. We called for this before too.

- Revise most used conju spells and make them faster to cast so conju play is more fluid and easy. This will remove a part of the stress and will improve our reaction time and make us do less mistakes. Pre 1.0 conju was more fluid.

In general it is best to limit spell usage not by cast time, but with cooldown and mana consumption. GCD is another way but it is pretty annoying way. I see it unplesant on my warlock and it is the main stopper for me to play it.

- And last for the sake of fun make to default spells to not put you in combat mode for mages. Both warlocks and conjus really really really do not need combat mode. We primarily cast - except for some players that are less that 10 that use SM with uber gear.

This is pretty all what i can think of. If someone have others add it.

[AariEv]

Mana Comm is pretty useless now. True before it was too much and everyone was bathing in mana. It can be changed to give same amount of mana as it now, but for shorter work time.

Screw everyone else. I use MC for myself. Using the spell at level 5 costs 600 or 700 mana but gives back 900. Seems like a little difference, but the extra mana I get back helps :P

[HidraA]

- Mana Comm is pretty useless now. True before it was too much and everyone was bathing in mana. It can be changed to give same amount of mana as it now, but for shorter work time.


I sugest to pass mana comm to greater mana:to give instant +600 mana(or better) to all aly.
OR give instant 200 mana to all aly once at 2 seconds time of 10 seconds.



- Ambitious suicide must be fixed.


Yes ,yes and yes


- Life Saver is limited on mana and cooldown. Make it faster to cast. Most of times we saver dead allies.


Agree ,also i am tired to heal deads and spells going in CD.


- Mass Ressurect - unused, useless, annoying chance cr*p.


As i told before this spell better is converted to % area Greater Saver or so and to be casted in Greater Healing style.


- Ressurect dizzy must be fixed. Now it eats effect of first spell casted which is uber annoying.


+1 big ...idiotic ,at least for mages,i got resurected on my lock,casted arcane and barier ...and dang nothing happened and both spells entered in cd...?!?!?


- Force Armour, Shifting Siluette, Friendly Shielding need fixing revamping.


-I think better convert force armor to passive pshisical resist 15% on lvl 5,it's kinda useless because force armor is % from your armor,and all know mages have very low armor...not much diference.



- Most of Staff Mastery needs serious revamp.


I think Staff Masterry is ok as it is ...a support conj no need dmg ...

Generaly agree with what @ieti told.

[ieti]

Screw everyone else. I use MC for myself. Using the spell at level 5 costs 600 or 700 mana but gives back 900. Seems like a little difference, but the extra mana I get back helps :P

Aasi i mostly think for myself too. xD

For 60 sec i will get another Energy Borrow(and will make another enemy want to kill me) which will give me 400+ and another Ambitious.

Most of times we need mana fast in the right moment. Get 300 mana benefit in 60s is hmm how to call it.

Gameplay is more active - Horns, Taxis etc etc speed buffs and it is harder to keep all around you. Shorter but more powerful MC will make all happy.

[Caroline_Noir]

I don't agree!
Second, HoTW just have to go :/ I hate this spell and simply brings in too much imbalance on who got the most wm:s on atm!

+1! I hate that spell too because when you walk around alone and a hunting group with at least 1 wm spots you, you are already dead. No matter what class you are, no matter what level you are. You are a wm too? It really sucks to be alone right?

But back to the point:
About Mind Squasher its a too powerful and also too random spell... (I hate spells with chances to fail)
The next problem is that barbs can use it as a damage spell which btw removes all enemy buffs (sometimes).
Thats why I would suggest the following changes:

a) Make MS not do weapons damage but a fixed amound of damage.
(For example lvl 1-5 300-700 dmg)
This way the DI problem doesn't matter and the damage is too low for a barb to use as a damage spell but for a knight its still viable.

b) Remove the chance and let it always work but only one spell at random.
(random because if it was always the last spell, than marks could recast recharged arrows after buffing and recasting it after MS would make MS useless. Similar things for the other classes)
Next: Reduce Cooldown to something like 8 seconds or even less but increase mana cost to maybe 300 (not sure if its not already that much)
The idea is that a warrior can completely dispell an opponent but it takes some time and a lot of mana, so that the enemy has time to react... for example steal or burn all mana from the warrior to prevent further MSs.

What I don't think a conju needs is more or stronger heals. They are fine as they are. Why else do people always cry "Conjus first!!1!11!" (even skilled people do that ;) well... maybe without the "1"s xD )
I'd also like to see some changes that make it viable again to play a warju. I mean: why not?
Why does every conju need to be a supporter? Why not give that class more possibility? Why not make that class more fun to play when you are pissed at your allies and you just want to show them how its done right? (every conju comes once to that point :D )

A first step could be to make steel skin 90% damage reduction again.

Okay... enough from my side. Next book is coming soon :angel1:
Have fun discussing

[ieti]

Warjurer builds are still strong. Mental + Defense builds are sometimes nastier than warlock. Golems hit 200 - 300's on mage. I see some run in SM builds or SM + Mental, but this requires really OP gear.

Hmm speaking of Steel Skin it is maybe good idea to revert it back to 90%, so conjus can cope with damage barbs and marks deal to them. Last days i die more frequently even in Steel Skin. It simply can not absorb all damage that conjus are put in. 2 or more marks really can dish scary damage.

The ability to keep enemies alive most of the time is upto how big is your mana pool. Most used spells have bigger consumption which leads to fast mana burn. Pre 1.0 it was possible to keep 4-10 allies alive and transfer mana if needed. Now it is difficult to keep even 4 and if ganked you can not outheal damage even from one ally. This was possible before.

I stopped to synergy mana mainly because of better regenerations of other classes and from inability to conserve enough for me. Change of mana cost of heals and dispell before several updates is main cause of this.

[Psynocide]

Knight debuffer - why not?


Knights struggle with our mana cap using auras and area ally buffs plus out own buffs and CCs as it is.
A knight's main auras (Heroic presence and deflecting barrier) require 950 mana alone which is an amount of mana only heard of as reasonable for a class with ambitious sacrifice.
Add onto that 240 mana for 10 second ally buffs (Shield wall and stars shield) and protect ally (A basic dispell) costing 210 mana all is to much for a knights mana level to bare for more than 20 seconds of an intense fight.
Then you say you want knights to have more spells to cast? :what:
Just ask Victus how many synergy bonds he has to cast on me per fight.

Add a proper level of CCs, even area CCs or debuffs and we're really going to struggle.

I'm interested to see how this might work but a solution to a knights mana woes must be applied first, such as an increase to a knights intelligence level.

[ieti]

I think if part of conju mana problem is solved many will return to giving synergy bond. Me including. In my old setups Synergy(2) was a must. Now synergy and mana comm are nearly forgotten. I really enjoyed the mana cow job we got before too.

Synergy got to be fixed too in fact. It gives no real indication about target is mana full or not. You just waste mana giving it to someone which is already full. Numbers on head workaround is a dumb one. Block this spell as it do with heals and regenerates. This will remove many annoyances and will make many pople using it again.

[Ashnurazg]

Warlocks are forgotten in balancing, too. :facepalm3:

[Lekarz]

@ieti - Warjurers are not overpowered coz they can easly die. Barbs are ;)

Real CONJURER (support) don't have points for mental. Personally on lvl 60 I am dead meat if left alone. Every mental is easly resisted by buffed barb / knight.

All what CONJURER need is:
A) health bonus from level of CONJURER ( when conj get lvl 5 heal ally he is the same medic as lvl 60 conj. Every other , except lock, class have improvements of their powers).
Base heal + conj lvl * 2,5 ( 500 heal ally + 150 hp )

The same with Energy Barrier. It's not good to have only 1000 points when enemies deal much more damage than before.

B) mana regeneration fix. Sorry to say but NGD doesn't know what class is CONJURER. You made something, never saw GM playing it, so we see results.

2661 mana is not enough to don't have 'not enough mana' appear during war.
Energy Borrow + sacrifice helps but still you need more mana ( only shity and lazy healers don't have this problem )

C) Mind Squash on conj = dead conj

D) If you can't improve conj armour, add better spell resistance or special item for second hand with stats like magical gem regenerating mana or other bonus which you get from class trainer by quests.

E) Ressurect and Great Ressurection need to be fixed. Second one heals really low hp amount, what is more its only 50% chance on lvl 5.

F) Warmaster staff is USELESS ( no stats only dmg and only one slot for gem and cannot fuse it).

[ieti]

Hmzz mental is still needed. Barbs are annoying and you need a way to defend. At least try to do so.

Arggg you got 500 mana more than me and still run dry. :angel1:

For staffs you are perfectly right. Whole WM suite is useless in fact. I see no real use of it since lower level items with good bonuses are always supreme. I still run around with my level 50 items.

[Lekarz]

You are one of the best conjurers from Syrtis. Really hard to say, but thats true. Mental really save your butt.
I just have OP gear... 140 mana gloves, tenax turban fused 175 mana and 130 hp tunic + 160 from staff. However I am still easy-to-kill target ;) Illogical.

When barb chase on you really helpful is cast sancuary - small tip from me.

Greetings

[ieti]

Hehe less OP than mine. 150 gloves, 170 tunic, 175 vesper hat, 14% fast staff. HP rings, HP ammu, no mana pool.

Speaking of sanctuary change in cast time hurt conjurers too. Before it was easier to use it as last resort spell. Now it is nearly impossible or easy to interrupt. Maybe good to revert this too.

I hate to use it because it debuffs bad. Post 1.0 Devotion dependence is bad.

[Seher]

I for one have never used sanctuary and even hardly use steel skin, I love mental. (time master > steel skin, imo) I consider myself a 'real' conjurer, as I don't ever deal damage, I just use mental to keep myself alive and to prevent damage on others. (One ivy on a barb in the right moment prevents more damage than you can heal within a whole minute) Items? What for? You just need a 14% cast staff, those 500 hp more don't really matter, even mana doesn't if you use sacrifice properly
I really don't think conjurers should get more defence. Old steel skin was way over the top, and I think even the current one is. Conjurers need to be able to heal themselves properly, with the same spells they can use on others, too. That way a conjurer can't tank and heal (which is clearly OP), but can still tank a bit. (While any real tank would of course still be way better there)

- Remove pylon stacking or put a limit of stacking. Let's say 2-4 pylons can stack.

I disagree. Not very elegant solution, to quote Chilko :P
I'd prefer a simple energy bar, that would improve both pylon and energy barrier so much...
http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65843

[Kaixo]

The same problems, confuse and Mind squasher.
As a support conjurer:
There is a lack of good group healing spells. The old aura was the best. Now greater regeneration has excesive cooldown, the area of greater healing is minuscule for that amount of heal, and with the positioning code a roulette to get the most of it, only useful in door fights. Mass resurrection to me is the same as losing 5 points.
With the 20 extra points it's more common to see warlocks using mana pylon and mana communion, practically the only two good auras that you have and give you rps and exp. There are a lot of them that also dispels. The only difference is that I cure 500hp each 5s and I'm focused in my allies to dispel them and cure them, so I try to buff my allies, specially barbs and warlocks to differentiate a bit.

As an offensive conjurer:
You are basically reduced to use the mental tree, and there you have mainly CC skills. The problem is that with offensive banner your only good CC is mind push in a war. Damage is practically limited to mana burn and arcane missile (below 150dmg to buffed marksmen).
The summoning tree has various problems, you need to expend discipline points to max level, invos at 55 lvl or less are not very good againt lvl 60 enemies, some spells are useless, there is a problem with the posses summoning spell, if someone kills your invo and ther is a warlock you need to wait the cooldown of ID or risk losing a new invo, also you need to configure to have ID (you lack discipline points).

PvP or vs few enemies:
Confuse lasts 22s.
A warrior with mind squasher if he arrives to your position can kill you easily, specially barbs that can run.
PvP you can win a knight with perfect.
Your only spells to win range are pricking ivy (rg25), will domain (rg10), mind push (rg8?), an archer can win you easily with his range, it's very difficult to maintain a barb out of range and f he uses mind squasher...
Steel skin is only 70%, two balances before you were hitted 100--200 while you could heal yourself with an aura 40 per second 33% of time, now people hit you 300-400 and faster.

[NotScias]

with the same spells they can use on others, too.

I don't think it'd be a good idea to have an unified heal self and ally. It'd have the same flaws than dispel eg if you heal yourself, the spell goes on cd and you can't help the ally until cooldown is done and vice-versa, also it wouldn't be able to be used under Sanctuary and Darkness, even on allies, unless they finally decide to fix this sempiternal bug....

Anyways like others I think Conjus need a boost and more support spells to make them more versatile. It'd not be so hard as there's many useless spells waiting to be revamped : Protection Dome, Mass Rez, SM tree, Curse, Blindness...
Also their mana regeneration is really slow even being mages and having sacrifice/borrow/pool, it's easy to run dry very quickly, the mana consumption of some spells could be reduced...

Also by the way, another good thing that could be done is to make spell damage (and heals) scalable depending of the level/intelligence... It sucks having the same heals amounts and spell damage from level 37 as a mage, while the other classes get better armors, weapons and damage via normal hits/%dmg spells...

[NSer]

OMG why all so care about SM? it's fine.... if u have at least +54 damage staff :D

[Seher]

I don't think it'd be a good idea to have an unified heal self and ally. It'd have the same flaws than dispel eg if you heal yourself, the spell goes on cd and you can't help the ally until cooldown is done and vice-versa

That's the point of it. :P You can't heal yourself AND allies properly, so the team's performance goes down rapidly when the conjurers are under fire. I rather think the current concept is flawed, you can always heal others, no matter how much you try to heal yourself (if your mana allows it, but I've never found that to be a problem to be honest).

also it wouldn't be able to be used under Sanctuary and Darkness, even on allies, unless they finally decide to fix this sempiternal bug....

Let's hope so.

[HidraA]

I I consider myself a 'real' conjurer, as I don't ever deal damage,

Heheh a good conj is apreciated by others,not by your self :D

[NotScias]

That's the point of it. :P You can't heal yourself AND allies properly, so the team's performance goes down rapidly when the conjurers are under fire. I rather think the current concept is flawed, you can always heal others, no matter how much you try to heal yourself (if your mana allows it, but I've never found that to be a problem to be honest).

Well it would have a sense if Conjurers were able to survive/tank under fire only with heals... Let's face it, it's not the +600 self heals every 15 seconds that saves a conju being targeted, so the team's performance is already heavily affected when the conju is targeted, as he's forced to retreat/sanct/heal/buff self quickly...

[Seher]

Yeah, but that's lame. (And most of the time the team isn't even affected by the stress put on the conjurers but by the simple fact that they're dead)
Yes, sanctuary etc. quite fits in what I was trying to say, but it makes hitting the conjurer less fun/impossible. I think it's better when you can actually hit them, but they still live more than 5 seconds. :P

[ieti]

If conjurer is on fire / pressed his performance decrease dramatically. It depends how much from his experience and skills. Real stopper for conju are enemies, cooldowns and mana shortage. How he sustain stress depends of person behind toon.

No need to make conju life worse with this. We have enough difficulty with Dispell. Constant deselect to dispell self is annoying, looses time and makes difficult to reselect your previous target in the crowd again. Putting more spells like this will increase stress and decrease fun alot.

Lets improve this class and not make more hard to play. Our count is already low because of this. Sure it is fun and rewarding but still - we need more fresh blood.

It is not a point of lame or not. There are classes 10x lame. Conju is nearly good and alot ppl like it. It is challenging for us and for enemies who try to stop it. That is important.

I do not want to get hurt - I'm a puny, peacefull conju which only heals and try to stay alive. :harhar:

[_Seinvan]

Anyways like others I think Conjus need a boost and more support spells to make them more versatile. It'd not be so hard as there's many useless spells waiting to be revamped : Protection Dome, Mass Rez, SM tree, Curse, Blindness...
Also their mana regeneration is really slow even being mages and having sacrifice/borrow/pool, it's easy to run dry very quickly, the mana consumption of some spells could be reduced...

Don't forget about how useless the Summoning tree is in war; support summons, anyone? :D Conj versatility kind of blows atm, everyone has virtually the same setup only with varying self defense/tank spells.

Also by the way, another good thing that could be done is to make spell damage (and heals) scalable depending of the level/intelligence... It sucks having the same heals amounts and spell damage from level 37 as a mage, while the other classes get better armors, weapons and damage via normal hits/%dmg spells...

Wouldn't mind this. It'd definitely help with those wimpy heals we dish out that are easily outdamaged by any barb.

[Lekarz]

I do not want to get hurt - I'm a puny, peacefull conju which only heals and try to stay alive. :harhar:

LoL :clapclap:

I just only heal :D


Mathilda: Leon, what exactly do you do for a living?
Léon: [Leon] Healer.
Mathilda: You mean you're a target man?
Léon: [reluctantly] Yeah.
Mathilda: Cool.

[andres81]

Somehow i am agree conj need better defence.


This is a joke, isn't it?
Conjurers have even better defences than a knight considering that they can heal themselves, can disipate negative effects on themselve, they have inmunity skills, skills to reflect damage towards the attacker, evasion skills, ....

Normally the conju is the last one dying on battlefield - if he is clever enough to keep a bit behind xD

Considering that the conju is supposed to be a support class hes own defences are actually too strong

[HidraA]

This is a joke, isn't it?
Conjurers have even better defences than a knight considering that they can heal themselves, can disipate negative effects on themselve, they have inmunity skills, skills to reflect damage towards the attacker, evasion skills, ....

Normally the conju is the last one dying on battlefield - if he is clever enough to keep a bit behind xD

Considering that the conju is supposed to be a support class hes own defences are actually too strong

You play regnum?....how you can dispell when you are confused?,how you can dispell when you are dizzy?,conj is first target lmao ....:D Kill the conj to be able to kill others....
And again...are you sure you talk about regnum..?..wuahahah defencse too strong...play a conj before talk lamo.....
You know i love this kind of guys....:"I want heals,i want mana,i want bla bla ..."

Go to play one daily ...and after come back and talk about them...

Immunity to skills?....DI you mean ....hahaha very hard to get whn usual is a single conj in a zerg.....and DI dose not protect you from dmg dizzy skills as BoW or meteor,you need to hope you resist vs MB ..:D...better defense that knight o.O ,knight armor....knight A01,passive resist at knocks ,passive resist at magical dmg...block....is same with sanctuar ....this have knights ... =)))

For sure you dont play regnum,and for sure you dont play knight :D

And don't forget conj have a buff that can be debuffed via MS,wile knight can't be debuffed via MS at least they passive resists :D....

[ieti]

This is a joke, isn't it?
Conjurers have even better defences than a knight considering that they can heal themselves, can disipate negative effects on themselve, they have inmunity skills, skills to reflect damage towards the attacker, evasion skills, ....

Normally the conju is the last one dying on battlefield - if he is clever enough to keep a bit behind xD

Considering that the conju is supposed to be a support class hes own defences are actually too strong

If attackers are clever enough conjurers die first. No matter of his defense and skill. I see nothing strong in conjurer actually. True buffs can soak some damage, but considering fire we are put on and cooldowns this buffs have, it is easy to force conjurer to spend buffs and mana and then simply kill it. If enemy can not make this - well it is their problem.

You can not take as example how long a good skilled conju survives. Take as valid point average conjus.

If we get our defensive buffs "adjusted" this class will simply stop to exist. Noyone will play or there will be some masochists left. It is hard enough already to stay alive - you can ask every conju how long they survive or if they do this longer what it costs them.

After last night 2-3 hours of playing my hands hurted. It is not because our gameplay is nice and cozy.

[Kitsuni]

This is a joke, isn't it?
Conjurers have even better defences than a knight considering that they can heal themselves, can disipate negative effects on themselve, they have inmunity skills, skills to reflect damage towards the attacker, evasion skills, ....

Normally the conju is the last one dying on battlefield - if he is clever enough to keep a bit behind xD

Considering that the conju is supposed to be a support class hes own defences are actually too strong
You clearly do not play a Conjuror. I've played Conjuror since the game's release (my first class), and i can tell you this... the days of them being "the last ones dying on the battlefield" ended when Sanctuary was nerfed and pre-debuff added. After that , they are terribly easy to destroy especially with MS, Confuse, Darkness..

[andres81]

I do play a conjurer (however it is not my main char) ;)

Ok, the conju is obviously the main target for the enemies but you can not ask for conju defenses that are able to resist 10 enemies attacking you. Here is where the role of your allies starts - imagine two conjus buffing themselves mutually with devine intervention and you can forget nearly all the negative effects you mentioned above.

What you need is TEAMPLAY, nothing else. xD

[ieti]

Resist 10 enemies - please...

Now conju can not survive even one barb. Now it can not survive 2 marks, can not survive a clever lock. I do not mean all that in once ofc.

One barb with UM is clearly enough to kill conju no matter what others do. 2 marks can shred conju to pieces. 1 lock can darkness then dot you to death.

If there are 2 conjus things get easier, but still most of the times conju is dead meat. I do not know how RA is or dunno what server you play, but here we got overbuffed barbs who are practically unstoppable and their only purpose is to rush a conju and kill. No ally can help.

Every server is different, players are different.

You can not judge by pointing on best players of the class for example. I can clearly say that if a look at asdaf that conju class is OP. Seconds later if you look of some young conju you will get perfectly opposite case.

Teamplay eh? Players who play better or who have better teamplay give a feeling that classes are better. I will say it again get a typical not so skilled conju, get a not so skilled team and watch what they will do.

[Truewar]

One of my favorite knight's spell is Protect Ally. It is a part of active support style of playing.

Sad thing for me...

In RvR it often takes more time to notice, come closer, select and dispel knocked conju than conju have to stay alive. Especially it is hard regarding position bug

[Kitsuni]

but you can not ask for conju defensesconju defensesdefenses
Mind squasher: Dispel all buffs on the target
Confuse: Prevent the target from using positive powers (including self-buffs) - luckily a bit rare now due to UP Hunters.
Darkness: Prevent target from receiving positive powers

Surely you cannot be this ignorant. No amount of defenses can resist these spells. The discussion was never about Conjuror defenses, it is how through a combination of nerfs over time they have been largely left out in the cold. They are far too vulnerable to certain key spells, and their uber defenses - as you claim, have major weaknesses that allow them to still be killed even if they manage to get/keep them up. Steel skin for example is vulnerable to magic damage, which is common now.

My marx does 150+ norms on a Conj in steel skin, and that's just normal hits. You think he will live long?

That's not even touching the subject matter of extreme power point usage...

[andres81]

Mind squasher: Dispel all buffs on the target

If a barb reaches melee range to a mage, the mage is dead - with or without mind sqasher. Stop him before he comes close, freeze him, throw insects, prickling evy, mind push or timemaster on him (you see, plenty of skills to stop him) and still i am not speaking about your allies that should do everything to stop a barb rushing towards the conju

Confuse: Prevent the target from using positive powers (including self-buffs) - luckily a bit rare now due to UP Hunters.
Darkness: Prevent target from receiving positive powers

Both effects can be dispelled by any mage (also warlocks) - give your allies a kick in their *** if they don't care. And even better than dispell this effects is prevent that they can be activated - you have divine intervination for that ;)


My marx does 150+ norms on a Conj in steel skin, and that's just normal hits. You think he will live long?

marks are a general problem because of their insane range, they have double range compared to mages range, +25% range in relation to mages would be enough imho - only marks can fight against marks (if they know how to play their class)

[ieti]

Umm WM barb under DI is unstoppable by any mage spell.

He is immune to immobilize, freeze, knock. DI makes it immune to slowdown too. Add to this UM and +2k HP bonus, add spring, taxi and horn. You have unstoppable kamikaze rushing to conju. Nearly impossible to stop by allies and you.

He kicks you, casts fluminate and kills with normal, beast attack, normal. 3.8k HP of level 60 conju gone in a sec. If he adds MS then no matter what you do erm no escape. This players usually got OP gear and Dragon Ammy / Rings. Normals of 1.1k+ are common, spells damage even more.

Only thing that can save you is another fast enough conju with dispell and life saver. Saver is slow enough to make you die. Even if saver works there have to be some warrior to MS and handle the kamikaze.

Pretty nice this barbs are. If they have proper conju support at back - which i do too then things get even uglier.

This is extreme case, but largely used on Horus for fast assassination of key targets.

[andres81]

That is a point, however we are speaking now about a combination of
barb + warmaster powers/signals + support conju (DI) = unstopable

This particular problem can be adressed by many ways and not necesaily by increasing the conjurers defenses because in general (except this deadly combination) the conjus defenses are very well (or even a bit OP).
Some suggestion what could be done:
* change effects of warmaster signals
* give a spell like mindsqash (dispell positive powers) with range to mages (or only conju)
* changes on barbs damage (in general or under certain problematic buffs)
* changes on conju support buffs like DI
etc

[Latan]

are you really complaining about conjurer's defence?
why everyone is saying "if a barb comes close to you, you're dead meat"? it does not depend from the conju setup, but it depends on BARBARIANS! everyone is dead if a full buffed barbarian reaches him, even a knight.

confuse atm has a fair duration and is only hunter's spell, dizzy spells don't last more than 10 seconds, conju has: steel skin, barrier, mind blank, sanctuary, force armor, karma mirror, can heal/regenerate/dispell himself, usually shares DI with another conju and an high level conju can skill mental to 19 keeping his full support setup untouched (so beetle swarm, ivy, time master, mind push, will domain are all skills that can be used to protect temselves/teammates)

the only things conju REALLY need atm are:
1) a better summon tree
2) some more usefull spells in enchantments tree
3) int based powers (like locks obv.)

[ufkn]

Umm WM barb under DI is unstoppable by any mage spell.

He is immune to immobilize, freeze, knock. DI makes it immune to slowdown too. Add to this UM and +2k HP bonus, add spring, taxi and horn. You have unstoppable kamikaze rushing to conju. Nearly impossible to stop by allies and you.

He kicks you, casts fluminate and kills with normal, beast attack, normal. 3.8k HP of level 60 conju gone in a sec. If he adds MS then no matter what you do erm no escape. This players usually got OP gear and Dragon Ammy / Rings. Normals of 1.1k+ are common, spells damage even more.



Quite some exaggeration you paint there. What do YOUR allies do when a barb does that? One knight's shield wall is damn enough to shield a conju from any uberbuffed barb, one timely MS from an ally is enough to dispel all his uberness,...

And remember WM beacons are 70%, which are failing frequently nowadays., thanks to RNG, but the case point being, you want to live as if nothing happened in the heat of war, it's war, deal with it. And Mindblank works pretty good.

Please stop blaming the class for when your allies fail you. Syrtis never goes anywhere and especially you, without 20 people, so blame them if they don't protect their conjus.

Conjus should not have more defence than what they already have.

[ieti]

+1000 to Latan.

Conju is one of good classes in RO. Maybe class with smaller number of broken things / annoyances.

Some spells was over the top, but got fixed / breaked / adjusted. I see this thread as a tool to improve this class, not break it to the level of other classes.

<OFFTOPIC>

@ufkn

I never blamed others or class for my deaths. I actually love conju. I buff good and play with my realm. It is pretty fair, because i use conju for support and warlock for offense. There is no point to war alone. If there is 1-2 syrtis only i will war with them. Numbers do not matter for me.

Before 2 days we came maybe 20 times to goat CS with other support conju(gandalf) to have fun and train survival in bad situations. It went pretty fun. 2 support conjus against sometimes 10+ goats. Earned "dead meat" badge for 50 deaths.

</OFFTOPIC>

[Kaixo]

Conjus should not have more defence than what they already have.
But then some other classes like marksmen should have less defenses.
And darkness and mind suqsher need a severe nerf.

I think the conjurer has two bad things:
Summons.
Spells of heal/resurrect more than one ally.

[HidraA]

But then some other classes like marksmen should have less defenses.


A marksman Vs warriors have same protection as a hunter.
Marksman protection was allrady nerfred once with armor fix.


And darkness and mind suqsher need a severe nerf.


Overated spells.


I think the conjurer has two bad things:
Summons.



Summons are fine as they are ,no need back old warjourers.


Spells of heal/resurrect more than one ally.

Not so bad ,only need better RvR heal spells.

[_Seinvan]

Summons are fine as they are ,no need back old warjourers.



Not so bad ,only need better RvR heal spells.

Summons suck, totally useless from an RvR perspective. So, they're definitely not fine :cuac:

RvR heal spells are fine, they just need a little tweaking; and maaaaybe removal of Mass Ress (but keep the pretty animation xD)

[harrrr]

Summons suck, totally useless from an RvR perspective. So, they're definitely not fine :cuac:

RvR heal spells are fine, they just need a little tweaking; and maaaaybe removal of Mass Ress (but keep the pretty animation xD)

i agree with the mass res thing. its a pretty useless spell except for very defined circumstances. but move the cool animation to standard res.

i think conjus could stand a small buff to their healing spells (because of the warmaster update). also a change to the nuke-area heal, the cooldown is too long imo.

EDIT: after a rethink of this suggestion, i think that heal ally should be changed back to a percentage of health but should be comparable to how it is now (perhaps more). 500 HP might do a lot for a lower level mage, but for a knight its basically pointless. im thinking maybe 15%.

[Kaixo]

A marksman Vs warriors have same protection as a hunter.
Marksman protection was allrady nerfred once with armor fix.

Overated spells.

Summons are fine as they are ,no need back old warjourers.

Not so bad ,only need better RvR heal spells.
If someone says that conjurer defenses are ok with steel skin 70% resist vs physical dmg then a marksman with 65% resistance vs all ranged damage for more duration and less cooldown is not ok being an offensive class.

Those overrated spells are unbalanced and nasty.

Summons tree is broken, some low level summons are pretty but stupid, low damage, limited time and they have to run after the enemy...
You need DI if you want to use them, but the duration of 2 of the summons is lower than the cooldown of DI, if a warlock steals your summon it lasts until killed.
Resistances are very low, they die with one or two hits in a fort war and you need a lot of time to do some damage, so still no use in a war (like pets of hunters but at least those have skin of the beast).
You can not cast summons under the effects of darkness (not sure 100%).


RvR heal spells are fine, they just need a little tweaking; and maaaaybe removal of Mass Ress (but keep the pretty animation )
If they need tweaking they are not fine.

Greater healing is low area, 6m fails due to position errors, you want to maximize it with number of allies because the amount of heal is very limited and a lot of times you only heal 2-3 guys (now with 25% more speed is worse). Good for door fights, where I expend less than 1% of my time, so this spell is out of mi configuration.

Greater regeneration is ok, the only problem I see is when you don't have it with rank 5.

Problems to use them with sanctuary.

Mass resurrection is broken. I prefer the old skill that required your life.