Balance Update Stage 3: beacons

[Llayne]

There is much talk of balance these days and I feel that NGD needs to decide if they will stick to balancing all the classes around these beacons or if the beacons will themselves be the target of balancing. Your thoughts?

Poll options are simple so as to see where the players feel the focus of balancing should be.

[ice_zero_cool]

I agree.

I don't want the beacons to be changed, they should be removed and replaced. IMO WM as a whole should be revamped and the spells should be unique for each class.

But, before anything, I'd really like to see all the classes balanced.

PS: Don't know if the WM revamping topic is outdated, haven't been in the forums for quite a while. :P

[PT_DaAr_PT]

The title is misleading. :mad:

What I'd do:
Remove offensive beacon. Rename Defensive beacon to Warmaster beacon. Create an innovative spell to fill the missing spot.
Do something like that for the teleport spells too. Add some goddamn variety, less copy pasta.

[_Enio_]

The title is misleading. :mad:

What I'd do:
Remove offensive beacon. Rename Defensive beacon to Warmaster beacon. Create an innovative spell to fill the missing spot.

I second this approach.

I dont like the idea of just reducing the resist rate. Dont nerf an OP effect by making it more random please. We got already enough of this.

[Llayne]

I second this approach.

I dont like the idea of just reducing the resist rate. Dont nerf an OP effect by making it more random please. We got already enough of this.

You make a good point. I am not a fan of randomness deciding the victors by any means.

[DemonMonger]

Whatever happens with beacons does not matter to me at all.
I no longer use warmaster skills period.
Why should we use the skills when their functions are limited?
Why should we use the skills when we can have more power without them.

lvl 59 character > lvl 60 character with warmaster skills in pvp battles.

[Torcida]

Remove warmasters.

[bois]

My opinion is just too damn long to put here. In short , I would like to see the whole system changed. Warmaster coins for the warmaster spells and use slots to control how many you have and how they fit. I wrote on it detailed fashion in another thread. I won't link it here to bore everyone unless it is asked for.

Barring that, I can live with the system that Daar suggested.

Edit : Scias linked his so I follow the precedent :p

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1383824&postcount=93
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1386013&postcount=104

[NotScias]

Damn your topic title I thought it was NGD's topic xD

Anyways I completely agree. The WM beacons don't only need a nerf but a complete revamp.
Also there's no diversity with the current system, as all lvl60 WMs have exactly the same WM skills no matter the class.
In addition, the beacon system has many inconvenients such as positioning issues and no reward for the casters comes in my mind first...

I have made some suggestions about class-specific WM spells (http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77619) a while ago (even if these spells need to be heavily toned down, just for the principle....)

[Nekudotayim]

I would like to see more more of these stupid threads about warmaster beacons. They are just annoying and if you do not like the new gameplay or are not able to handle the new possibilities, why not going back to play tetris again?

Thanks.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I would like to see more more of these stupid threads about warmaster beacons.

I would like to see more of them too, good thing we agree.

Beacons are terrible. It doesn't matter if you have 'adapted' to this new game play when said game plays fun factor is vastly inferior to past versions, not to mention these banners cause all sorts of balance issues. Barbs spring to mind...

[Llayne]

Even the barbs, such as myself, don't like the gameplay of with these beacons even though we benefit most. I don't want to be the class that will be nerfed to oblivion so that these beacons can remain part of the game.

I have adapted to 10 seconds of madness despite the fact that I think it is the equivalent of army of one which was boosted from a duration of 10 to 15 seconds. I understand we have spring and they don't so perhaps it balances out this way. It can be pretty difficult to do things with such a short amout of time though. An area, for example, has a cast time which is half the duration of madness. Howl was treated unfairly in the last balance stage which I feel you rushed right through without listening to a word we were saying in the official thread. Mod is still 30 seconds long. Can't we have at least 12 seconds on howl?

I just wish you would explain your logic behind how you decide these things. It would be very nice when doing an update if you could provide a brief description next to each skill that is being changed as to why. This is not a game in beta stage and I feel you could grant your players that much at least. Not to mention you would hear less bitching if we heard a brief explanation as to why some of our favorite skills get changed.

I simply don't understand what you were thinking that these beacons would do to the balance of the game you have taken years to fine tune. I understand the word expansion sounds cool and all and perhaps you rushed the content of said expansion but please get rid of these awful beacons now.
We bought the scrolls and grinded twice the mobs we used to have to (which a lot of us hate doing) without too much whining. Please just do us this kindness of doing something drastic with these beacons.

Random resists alone seem worse than ever, and as Enio said, we do not need more of this. I think I speak for everyone when I say we take pride in winning good fights. I would rather lose a good fight than win because I resisted something randomly.

Of course there are those people out there that, when the fight is down to the last hit and they random resist rage of the earth. clap like douchbags. I don't speak for those people. >.>

[makarios68]

if you do not like the new gameplay or are not able to handle the new possibilities, why not going back to play tetris again?
Thanks.
Hey! Don't dis the tetris!!

[Llayne]

I am a bit surprised there are this many votes for keeping the beacons as they are. Can we get some logic behind this to consider? Tell us and NGD why you like the beacons and the classes should be balanced around them.

btw, if you are a barb that is enjoying this ride you should know that it isn't going to last forever. Balance is going to smack you in the head one way or another. Choose if you want a nice nerf to your OPness or the beacons that make you OP.

[isgandarli]

I am a bit surprised there are this many votes for keeping the beacons as they are. Can we get some logic behind this to consider? Tell us and NGD why you like the beacons and the classes should be balanced around them.

btw, if you are a barb that is enjoying this ride you should know that it isn't going to last forever. Balance is going to smack you in the head one way or another. Choose if you want a nice nerf to your OPness or the beacons that make you OP.

Barbs voting against beacons change :)

[Yttrium]

I am a bit surprised there are this many votes for keeping the beacons as they are

The poll options could be a little clearer maybe. Beacons have devastated balance -- but the classes still need some changes, e.g.:

- confuse, darkness and MS are overpowered with or without beacons
- barb damage is too high -- fulminate is really unnecessary: I think NGD caved to barb whining too quickly at the end of the last big balance update
- hunters got nerfed too hard
- conjurers' heals are too low and cost too much mana
- knights are too slow
- marks have too much CC and defense
- in general, CCs are still too long

I voted to change banners, but only because I think they affect balance more. Maybe others disagree with that, but still dislike the offensive banner (I've never heard of anyone in-game saying that it was a good addition.)

[Llayne]

The poll options could be a little clearer maybe. Beacons have devastated balance -- but the classes still need some changes, e.g.:

- confuse, darkness and MS are overpowered with or without beacons
- barb damage is too high -- fulminate is really unnecessary: I think NGD caved to barb whining too quickly at the end of the last big balance update
- hunters got nerfed too hard
- conjurers' heals are too low and cost too much mana
- knights are too slow
- marks have too much CC and defense
- in general, CCs are still too long

I voted to change banners, but only because I think they affect balance more. Maybe others disagree with that, but still dislike the offensive banner (I've never heard of anyone in-game saying that it was a good addition.)

I agree that some classes need to be adjusted a bit but first thing that needs to happen before that is to take the beacons out of the balance equation. It is kind of why I named the thread as I did.... if ngd is balancing this game these beacons need to be addressed before looking at class tweaking.

edit: Still waiting on the 30% voting to keep the beacons as they are to play devils advocate. Grow a pair already....

[Gabburtjuh]

I don't agree with nerfing any classes, or even adjusting them, till we've got atleast 1 month of WMless gameplay...
This means I agree with removing/heavily adjusting WM powers btw.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Beacons should be balanced by removal. If NGD gets rid of them, they will be pretty balanced.

[Kitsuni]

Beacons should be balanced by removal. If NGD gets rid of them, they will be pretty balanced.
They would never hurt their baby - and that's exactly the problem with the game, they keep adding all of this new crap with each "major" update, but they don't ever want to remove any of it when it turns out bad and the community hates them for it. So they will just end up nerfed so much that no one will ever use them instead. ^^

I wish NGD would learn that they can rethink and reuse content instead of trying to shoehorn bad ideas into general use.

[andres81]

The offensive beacon should be removed and replaced by something else, maybe a small woodden wall placed in the ground where a player can hide himself to get out of archer range? xD

[Kaixo]

I would prefer to see changes to classes, the warmaster tree should be the last change in my opinion.
I want a change to mind squasher and darkness sooner than later.

I don't like the warmaster tree, i would change it for a selection of an special skill for each class.
For example something like this:
Conjurers choose one:
Heal ally 700 instead of 500.
Defensive beacon.
Invocation Fenix, resurrect 4 allies with sanctuary and 2000hp.

Warlocks choose one:
Offensive teleport 15min.
Defensive teleport 10min.
Passive arcane devotion

Hunters:
7% more speed
pet more life and protection
special pets
...

[NSer]

I would prefer to see changes to classes, the warmaster tree should be the last change in my opinion.
I want a change to mind squasher and darkness sooner than later.

I don't like the warmaster tree, i would change it for a selection of an special skill for each class.
For example something like this:
Conjurers choose one:
Heal ally 700 instead of 500.
Defensive beacon.
Invocation Fenix, resurrect 4 allies with sanctuary and 2000hp.

Warlocks choose one:
Offensive teleport 15min.
Defensive teleport 10min.
Passive arcane devotion

Hunters:
7% more speed
pet more life and protection
special pets
...
Passive arcane devotion? U mad? And what means specail pets? Leader mobs/Legendaries/Epic pets :D?

[Latan]

I would prefer to see changes to classes, the warmaster tree should be the last change in my opinion.


i hope too warmaster balance will be the last, after having balanced all the rest.

i would split offensive beacons in more beacons with 30 seconds duration and 100% resist to a single CC (maybe rising the casting time of the beacons to 3-5 seconds).
we would have the anti-dizzy beacon, anti-stun, anti-knock, anti-freeze, anti-slow, anti-cannot move, anti-cannot attack and each one with high casting time and small duration, so the caster should choose between beacons to cast if he doesn't want to waste half or 3/4 of the duration casting more beacons (maybe class related beacons...)

[Gabburtjuh]

I would prefer to see changes to classes, the warmaster tree should be the last change in my opinion.
I want a change to mind squasher and darkness sooner than later.

I don't like the warmaster tree, i would change it for a selection of an special skill for each class.
For example something like this:
Conjurers choose one:
Heal ally 700 instead of 500.
Defensive beacon.
Invocation Fenix, resurrect 4 allies with sanctuary and 2000hp.

Warlocks choose one:
Offensive teleport 15min.
Defensive teleport 10min.
Passive arcane devotion

Hunters:
7% more speed
pet more life and protection
special pets
...

/disagree, it would be unfair ( and even worse for support classes) if some classes got personal buffs, and some got support buffs, increasing the already imba class balance

[UmarilsStillHere]

/disagree, it would be unfair ( and even worse for support classes) if some classes got personal buffs, and some got support buffs, increasing the already imba class balance

It would be unfair for a support class, say Conju. To have support based warmaster spells? What?

I'm not saying they should all be, but maybe have a mix, just 3 or 4 spells for each class exclusive to that class at warmaster level where you can use 2 or 3 of them. Not making them stupidly overpowered as beacons, or so that a L60 Marks has no chance against a L60 WM marks. But stuff to make life easier and add emphasis to their role in war.

[Gabburtjuh]

It would be unfair for a support class, say Conju. To have support based warmaster spells? What?

Yes, it would, it's not like support classes should only have support and offensive classes only support, just check out class balance now, how many offensive vs supportive classes you see in wz in war, WM spells that would be support only for support and offense only for offensive classes would only magnify this further.

[andres81]

Yes, it would, it's not like support classes should only have support and offensive classes only support, just check out class balance now, how many offensive vs supportive classes you see in wz in war, WM spells that would be support only for support and offense only for offensive classes would only magnify this further.

Btw, how do you defind "supportive" and "offensive"? Actually the so called "offensive" beacon is a classic support skill - similar to divine intervention xD

[UmarilsStillHere]

...

I may have missed your point :P I read your post as if you wanted all classes to have offence based WM skills.

Personally I feel it should be the opposite, all WM spells should be team based buffs. I wouldn't like to see Barbs with a guaranteed crit spell or marks with a range 80 shot ...

[Kaixo]

Passive arcane devotion? U mad? And what means specail pets? Leader mobs/Legendaries/Epic pets :D?
Some ideas that passed my mind as I was writing, the one of the pets taken from wow, if they are copying a lot of things from that game (and others) they could give a look to their hunters and pets.
About arcane devotion I would prefer spells with less casting time and less arcane devotion, now it's a must have skill 60s/60s, if you design a skill to be always on why not make it passive?

/disagree, it would be unfair ( and even worse for support classes) if some classes got personal buffs, and some got support buffs, increasing the already imba class balance
Yes and no. It would depend on the final effect or general balance.
For example now mages have more support buffs than other classes and generally I don't see people pointing at those buffs for balance.

[53453467734534]

Change Warmaster beacons...

Not long ago I created two threads, where you can vote on certain suggestions:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=77630

and

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=79106

[Llayne]

... if you design a skill to be always on why not make it passive?....

I have been saying this for ages about berserk. Every barb uses it and every barb casts it every 40 seconds. It's just annoying and ruins the flow of gameplay. Hell, I would even take a nerf to damage if it meant I didnt have to hit another annoying buff constantly.

[Gabburtjuh]

I have been saying this for ages about berserk. Every barb uses it and every barb casts it every 40 seconds. It's just annoying and ruins the flow of gameplay. Hell, I would even take a nerf to damage if it meant I didnt have to hit another annoying buff constantly.

Nty, -100% evasion all the time...

[NSer]

Nty, -100% evasion all the time...

:trollface: ?

[Llayne]

Nty, -100% evasion all the time...

lol go back to knight where they care about this crap. I mean, really? I might have to keep casting this thing another million times because you want to hold onto your evasion? Really? REALLY?

Seriously... gtfo my class.