Hotw should be adjusted

[Torcida]

As the title says I think Hotw should be adjusted,Why; The actual purpose for Hotw was RvR but from personal experience I know that it is being spammed in pvp (2v1-3v1) situations if 2 barbs are chasing you and 1 barb has hotw you can try to slow them what you want but they will catch you for sure and this is just 1 small example, Thats why I think instead of having 1 player arround you to be able to use this spell I think you should have atleast 4 only then you can call it a RvR spel.

[Gabburtjuh]

so 2 barbs of which one is WM should not be able to catch you?

[Torcida]

so 2 barbs of which one is WM should not be able to catch you?

Not with the use of Hotw cause I don't think it gives other players a fair chance to survive in the WZ.

[Psynocide]

2 vs 1 should always have the odds stacked against the single player - what you're proposing would be more imbalance.

Also, PvP stands for Player Versus Player, not Players Versus Player/s.
Thus this example would come under RvR.

[Torcida]

2 vs 1 should always have the odds stacked against the single player - what you're proposing would be more imbalance.



I have got no problems fighting 2v1 fights but Hotw simply makes it unfair for every player in that situation the purpose of hotw is to be used in fort wars big open field battles invasion bridge fights etc... not in a PVP situation (yes it is a pvp situation or would you rather call a 2v1 fight RvR?) I understand WM's don't like this but you have to be realistic.

[Gabburtjuh]

HotW is to support allies, 1 ally is a ally to, get WM to and a hunting partner, and you can move fast to, people grind for it, do quests and even have to be near allies to use their powers, if you don't like it, go play a PvP based game, cuz some complaints about WM skills are rightfull, this one isn't worth giving a second thought, how's 2 vs 1 and 2 winning with one person sacrificing points to skill his WM powers unfair? 2 barbs without hotw probably can't even catch a lock, and I'm pretty sure you know that, so stop making biased threads and start running around with friends that are WM for example...

[Psynocide]

I have got no problems fighting 2v1 fights but Hotw simply makes it unfair for every player in that situation the purpose of hotw is to be used in fort wars big open field battles invasion bridge fights etc... not in a PVP situation (yes it is a pvp situation or would you rather call a 2v1 fight RvR?) I understand WM's don't like this but you have to be realistic.

I would call it RvR yes, PvP would be incorrect.

It's meant to be unfair.
Remember this is a RvR based game, if you find yourself alone against two other players you should expect to lose.
Think of it as incentive to co-operate.
It is also part of the incentive and benefit of actually attaining WM status - a status that has already been degraded.

[Torcida]

I would call it RvR yes, PvP would be incorrect.

It's meant to be unfair.
Remember this is a RvR based game, if you find yourself alone against two other players you should expect to lose.
Think of it as incentive to co-operate.
It is also part of the incentive and benefit of actually attaining WM status - a status that has already been degraded.

2v1 is clearly PvP look it up if you don't believe me, Yes this game is a RvR based game but PvP and hunting is a part of that and NGD should keep in mind a good ammount of people play this game almost purely because off its attractive pvp options, But sadly enough this game is somehow becoming more and more of a no-skills no-brains involved game and thats not a positive thing, Warmasters played a big-role in the game's further process into becomming a hack and slash game, I have nothing against Hotw in General but it has too fit its actual purpose and currently its just not doing that.

[isgandarli]

Ok, we know that barbs are against of "nerf" HotW. :) What does other classes think?

For me, playing as marksman, hunter, conj and lock - i can say that i'm against a speed buff like HotW. But reality in RO forces me to use my mostly hated skills like WM Beacons and Hotw. Every player that have proper hands, should be able to win against 1 vs 3 even! Imo quality should better than quantity. Now it's almost impossible to "kite" using ranged class or to make some maneuvers against 2 vs 1.

[Vroek]

I dont know what NGD were thinking, i really just want to cry when i see a spell like this one implemented.

Would it be so damn hard ot make the spell deactivate on first impact?
It solves alot of problem right there.

I would even go one step further and make it deactivate if any spell or attack is used.
Just to make it a little harder to simply just escape with hotw every time you get in a little trouble.

[uncreative]

start to hunt with a WMxD

[Psynocide]

2v1 is clearly PvP look it up if you don't believe me, Yes this game is a RvR based game but PvP and hunting is a part of that and NGD should keep in mind a good ammount of people play this game almost purely because off its attractive pvp options, But sadly enough this game is somehow becoming more and more of a no-skills no-brains involved game and thats not a positive thing, Warmasters played a big-role in the game's further process into becomming a hack and slash game, I have nothing against Hotw in General but it has too fit its actual purpose and currently its just not doing that.


I repeat; PvP by definition means Player Versus Player - singular, this is not a flexible term.
You're generalizing.
War masters in general perhaps are adding to the overall tedium of how things play out but Horn of the Wind is not the direct cause, the fault lies with beacons - which need tweaking.
It's doing its job adequately, it can no longer be cast alone so its PvP element is lost and is purely a RvR benefit.

Ok, we know that barbs are against of "nerf" HotW. :) What does other classes think?


I speak from the perspective of knight and warlock.

Every player that have proper hands, should be able to win against 1 vs 3 even

No.
You have to define by class, not all class types require the skill to handle opponents.
A skilled conjurer for instance is not defined solely by being able to dispatch a certain number of opponents but by how well they are able to support a group - notice this is a RvR example.
An offensive class type should also not be able to prevail over three of its own.
For instance, a barbarian that finds himself against three other barbarians of near equal level should expect to see the CS soon.

A skilled player should be able to function within its sub class limits to transcend their peers but not to extent of overwhelming them.

Put simply, a skilled player can surpass another when compared one to one but not two to one.

[Kitsuni]

The problem is HOTW is currently essential for Knights in any battle. A Knight has no CC resistance besides Knock down(Passive) - Defensive support has severe speed malus and doesn't count for anything except doors or PvP. This means it is very, very easy to CC Knights to death in both small group fights and in war, with it not being uncommon in 2vs2 for the Knight to be taken out for the entire fight by CC chains while the other player dies. Thus, they need to reach opponents and disable them preemptively.

If HOTW is nerfed, Onslaught nerf would have to be reverted just to make do for this entirely war-oriented class.

For me, playing as marksman, hunter, conj and lock - i can say that i'm against a speed buff like HotW. But reality in RO forces me to use my mostly hated skills like WM Beacons and Hotw. Every player that have proper hands, should be able to win against 1 vs 3 even! Imo quality should better than quantity. Now it's almost impossible to "kite" using ranged class or to make some maneuvers against 2 vs 1.
Is this a joke?

Kiting is a broken mechanic used by highly skilled players to kill or escape several opponents. A valid mechanic, but broken nonetheless, as this is an imbalance for in 2 vs 1 the single player should never win unless the opponents are extremely unskilled, not by the power of either class. This points to an overpowered class design. A skilled player should have a chance of winning *most* of the time versus a single other player of questionable skill, but two players of the same skill should either have a hard battle or cancel each other out completely, with 2 vs 1 or other "unfair" situations leading to the single player being more than likely to get killed.

The Hunter "golden age" proved this to everyone in the most imbalanced ways possible.

And kiting is far from impossible... it is extremely easy, especially as Marksman, unless your opponent is DI'ed. Yes, even versus HoTW.

[Psynocide]

The problem is HOTW is currently essential for Knights in any battle. A Knight has no CC resistance besides Knock down(Passive) - Defensive support has severe speed malus and doesn't count for anything except doors or PvP. This means it is very, very easy to CC Knights to death in both small group fights and in war, with it not being uncommon in 2vs2 fo the Knight to be taken out for the entire fight by CC chains. If HOTW is nerfed, Onslaught nerf would have to be reverted just to make do.

Very essential.

i can haz spring back plz..?

[esp_tupac]

Horn of the wind can be an huge advantage to either the attacking side or the defending side (escaping) depending on the situation ur in. on a small scale it seems unfair for a single player who is being chased by 2 or more warmasters. but then it seems unbalanced for a group of non wm players to chase a group of wms. I guess that's purpose of wm skills - to change the outcome of a RvR. Hotw casted on barbs can be extremely unfair when used in combination with spring, onslaught and perhaps Divine Intervention from conjus. but without it knights would start to complain. hotw has a range limitation and a single wm can not cast on himself. I think we should leave HOTW as it is.

[Llayne]

lock with slow 5 pvp setup doesn't like horn of the wind. Shocking. >.>

2 vs 1 should always have the odds stacked against the single player - what you're proposing would be more imbalance.

Also, PvP stands for Player Versus Player, not Players Versus Player/s.
Thus this example would come under RvR.

One lock vs two warriors with no horn and the lock has a good chance of winning. This is why he doesn't like hotw...

[DemonMonger]

Threads like this one are the reason that regnum online fell apart. NERF the nerfing nerfer...:facepalm3:

[Torcida]

I repeat; PvP by definition means Player Versus Player - singular, this is not a flexible term.
You're generalizing.



Sigh since you simply don't want to admit you are wrong I have looked it up for you ; ''Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants'' click Here (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player)

[Torcida]

Threads like this one are the reason that regnum online fell apart. NERF the nerfing nerfer...:facepalm3:

We all know you are and were against any type of WM-nerf.

lock with slow 5 pvp setup doesn't like horn of the wind. Shocking. >.>



One lock vs two warriors with no horn and the lock has a good chance of winning. This is why he doesn't like hotw...


Get your facts right I have never skilled slow on a higher lvl then 3 Which I am using now aswell. If you and your friends can't beat me while im just using slow 3 and mind push 1 then it says something about you and your in-game skills if you don't like that don't go make things up.


And indeed thats one of my reasons I don't like it, NGD said that it would be a RvR spell and since its being used in PvP situations, Its not working properly

[Llayne]

Really sick of these 'nerf everyone but me' threads.

[Torcida]

Really sick of these 'nerf everyone but me' threads.

My main is a warlock So I do know what nerfing is ;)

[Psynocide]

Sigh since you simply don't want to admit you are wrong I have looked it up for you ; ''Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants'' click Here (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player)

More than two players in a combat instance would be a loophole in the terminology that I dub "Assisted PvP", the point still stands that it is *player* versus *player* not player*s*, this is grammatically speaking, inflexible.
Assisted PvP would be defined as closer to RvR as it involves teamwork (to one degree or another).

I enjoy splitting hairs.

[Torcida]

More than two players in a combat instance would be a loophole in the terminology that I dub "Assisted PvP", the point still stands that it is *player* versus *player* not player*s*, this is grammatically speaking, inflexible.
Assisted PvP would be defined as closer to RvR as it involves teamwork (to one degree or another).

I enjoy splitting hairs.

A loophole in the terminology.... Yes it would be a gramatical mistake but this is how it works in reality is it soo hard to admit you are wrong?

[bois]

Horn of the wind: If the effect breaks on the first hit by the sped up player, this should be more than enough.
Indeed, that would be quite a lot and maybe too much if you add block and resists into the equation.
Personally, I would just leave it alone. If slows got some kind of nerf down the road, then this spell can be adjusted to suit.

As for this RvR vs PvP thing, these are just concepts and depending on the game or developer, the definition changes.
If I were to nit pick, PvP is 1 player versus 1 player. I could try to be ridiculous (as some posters here) and say that a group fight instance is actually PvP as well as you shift focus from player to player. You have multiple instances of PvP in a RvR or group fight which we really mean. This can scale to any size with infinite shifting instances of PvP in the chaos.
The only reason that it is actually called RvR is that gamers are separated by preset geopolitical divisions and fight based on allegiances to these divisions.
So , I could be equally ridiculous and say that a single player versus a single player of another realm is RvR. It is a realm member versus an enemy realm member. Because of the geopolitical divide this would be accurate to say.

Point ? The arguments are moot .

PvP : An interactive conflict between 2 or more live participants in a MMORPG. Any scale battle in this context is PvP. RvR is PvP. Group versus group is PvP. 1 vs 20 is PvP. Players versus Players is PvP. Any game where live players compete against live players (no matter how many) can be generally called PvP.

RvR : The players are divided into geopolitical organisations and fight over assets in the game based on these pre-set affiliations as set by the developers. Any scale battle between live players whose geopolitical affiliations are different is RvR. RvR is PvP. However, it is interesting to note that it can be opined that if the live players are not fighting over contested assets in the game, RvR does not occur. The definition states that RvR combat surrounds the contesting of these assets. The question is what constitute assets?
Conversely, one player can attack another player (aka PvP) but could been seen to be clearing or claiming territory (asset) which would then fall under the ambit of RvR.

This differs from clan versus clan where the players define the groupings and not the developers.
These differ from PvE where live players fight against AI controlled objects.

All of this is just to show that the definitions are damn vague and can be twisted to fit any context. I know I can twist it any way I like and not be wrong. Get over it and move on to less puerile debates.

[_Enio_]

Maybe some sort of stamina bar added back, combined with activable "sprint state" which comsumes it, and offensive actions which bring you in a higher consumption state for some seconds could be used to get out of the fixed speed imbalances and a quite elegant solution to kiting (as the range would be in offensive state and consume more stamina while the melee would not).

Horn could then be changed to an area stamina regenerate spell or something, giving it more use for being offensive while sprinting, but not overpower speed when just running away.

Didnt put much thought in it yet, but it could eventually be worth to think about.

[Psynocide]

A loophole in the terminology.... Yes it would be a gramatical mistake but this is how it works in reality is it soo hard to admit you are wrong?

I'm not saying I'm wrong, I'm just saying you're not right :bangin:


As for this RvR vs PvP thing, these are just concepts and depending on the game or developer, the definition changes.
If I were to nit pick, PvP is 1 player versus 1 player. I could try to be ridiculous (as some posters here) and say that a group fight instance is actually PvP as well as you shift focus from player to player. You have multiple instances of PvP in a RvR or group fight which we really mean. This can scale to any size with infinite shifting instances of PvP in the chaos.
The only reason that it is actually called RvR is that gamers are separated by preset geopolitical divisions and fight based on allegiances to these divisions.
So , I could be equally ridiculous and say that a single player versus a single player of another realm is RvR. It is a realm member versus an enemy realm member. Because of the geopolitical divide this would be accurate to say.

Point ? The arguments are moot .

PvP : An interactive conflict between 2 or more live participants in a MMORPG. Any scale battle in this context is PvP. RvR is PvP. Group versus group is PvP. 1 vs 20 is PvP. Players versus Players is PvP. Any game where live players compete against live players (no matter how many) can be generally called PvP.

RvR : The players are divided into geopolitical organisations and fight over assets in the game based on these pre-set affiliations as set by the developers. Any scale battle between live players whose geopolitical affiliations are different is RvR. RvR is PvP. However, it is interesting to note that it can be opined that if the live players are not fighting over contested assets in the game, RvR does not occur. The definition states that RvR combat surrounds the contesting of these assets. The question is what constitute assets?
Conversely, one player can attack another player (aka PvP) but could been seen to be clearing or claiming territory (asset) which would then fall under the ambit of RvR.


It's circumstantial, basically.

Generally when someone refers to PvP though they mean one on one and Horn of the Winds use in this activity has been nullified.

It's just less of a headache referring to more than two players in combat as RvR, it also makes slightly more sense than the alternative - which obviously some find confusing.

[Torcida]

H
As for this RvR vs PvP thing

No need to waste any more time on this Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants


Enough said go on-topic again please.

[Seher]

I dont know what NGD were thinking, i really just want to cry when i see a spell like this one implemented.

Would it be so damn hard ot make the spell deactivate on first impact?
It solves alot of problem right there.

I would even go one step further and make it deactivate if any spell or attack is used.
Just to make it a little harder to simply just escape with hotw every time you get in a little trouble.

I'd like that. HotW is just too easily spammable. No skill at all involved. It's OP, too, imo, but that's the main reason it deserves a nerf. Regnum is too much about buffing until godmode, you should always have to fear being mortal again, and not just due to mind squasher. (Confound those beacons)

[Psynocide]

I'd like that. HotW is just too easily spammable.

The same could really be said of half the spells in Regnum.
For example, look at how many complaints of South Cross, Mind Squash, Defeaning Roar, Howl and knocks spamming you see per day.

So I don't think this is a valid point for nerfing Horn of the Wind.

[bois]

I thought of the stamina bar concept quite some time ago when archers were the fastest around. At that time I had the sinking feeling that NGD would not consider it although it would be the most elegant way to address speed boost/reduction and burst speed in this game.

Rather than kill your speed directly , you would then seek to kill the player's stamina or regenerative capacity of stamina as a way of slowing or controlling the opponent. Each class could then have stamina boosts and different levels of stamina either for burst speed or longer distance running. You could then also introduce boots with STAMINA stat on them.
A lot of work to design either way.

Maybe now is the time to consider this Enio. Good idea.

[Seher]

The same could really be said of half the spells in Regnum.
For example, look at how many complaints of South Cross, Mind Squash, Defeaning Roar, Howl and knocks spamming you see per day.

So I don't think this is a valid point for nerfing Horn of the Wind.

I rather see this as a valid point for nerfing mind squash, roar, howl and knocks spamming :P (Not sure about South Cross, boosting other damage spells might be better there)

[Torcida]

I thought of the stamina bar concept quite some time ago when archers were the fastest around. At that time I had the sinking feeling that NGD would not consider it although it would be the most elegant way to address speed boost/reduction and burst speed in this game.

Rather than kill your speed directly , you would then seek to kill the player's stamina or regenerative capacity of stamina as a way of slowing or controlling the opponent. Each class could then have stamina boosts and different levels of stamina either for burst speed or longer distance running. You could then also introduce boots with STAMINA stat on them.
A lot of work to design either way.

Maybe now is the time to consider this Enio. Good idea.

Not a bad idea indeed


The same could really be said of half the spells in Regnum.
For example, look at how many complaints of South Cross, Mind Squash, Defeaning Roar, Howl and knocks spamming you see per day.

So I don't think this is a valid point for nerfing Horn of the Wind.

It is a valid point, Hotw is a unfair and unbalanced spell And no its not supposed to be unfair its supposed to give you a advantage in battle there is a difference between those two things.

[Torcida]

I rather see this as a valid point for nerfing mind squash, roar, howl and knocks spamming :P (Not sure about South Cross, boosting other damage spells might be better there)

You would like to absolutely nerf everything in RO right? xD

[Zas_]

I proposed some time ago to replace Hotw by a simple and single special power:
- 30 seconds speed burst
- 60 cooldown
- 250 mana cost
- available to all classes from level 1

Reason:
current wm only hotw create imbalance in already imbalanced situations, still burst speed is a nice thing to have:
- 1 grinder vs 1 wm + 1 char = no chance to keep range
- 2 level 59 chars vs 2 wm = huge imbalance due to hotw (and beacons...)

Imho, we could cut the thing in parts:
- one 0-level power with +20% speed boost
- one non-self wm 10m area spell (current hotw) : 10s of +20% speed boost
- remove all specific class speed boosts (mobility, etc...)
- cleanup speed debuff powers: remove heavy ones, and replace them by less powerful, but with short cooldown (ie. caltrops(5) -> -20% but cd 50 seconds)

[Gabburtjuh]

Yes, let's nerf WM till it's beyond uselessness, they're meant to give an advantage to the WM and the ones he supports, stop whining about it, it's thesame as saying conjs are unfair cuz not all realms have thesame amount of high level conjs...

[Torcida]

Yes, let's nerf WM till it's beyond uselessness, they're meant to give an advantage to the WM and the ones he supports, stop whining about it, it's thesame as saying conjs are unfair cuz not all realms have thesame amount of high level conjs...

They will give a advantage don't you worry about that they will simply not be OP anymore.

[Gabburtjuh]

Beacons are OP, HOTW is at best a spell with a to short CD, it can be canceled by a very common spell with area 10 and range 50, light arrow, or any other slowdown...

[Psynocide]

I thought of the stamina bar concept quite some time ago when archers were the fastest around. At that time I had the sinking feeling that NGD would not consider it although it would be the most elegant way to address speed boost/reduction and burst speed in this game.


Just like in Dragon Age - huzzah!

They will give a advantage don't you worry about that they will simply not be OP anymore.

Trust me.. It's not OP.
Once you actually get WM status you realize this :/

[Archonaut]

Trust me.. It's not OP.
Once you actually get WM status you realize this :/

Well, I actually do agree with Torcida here... but lets not overreact, a simple ''NGD'' nerf should be enough.

NGD Nerf as in, longer the CD, lower the Duration and more mana cost. Just make sure the speed stays 25% (as it is now if I'm not wrong) I mean, it should be equal to the spell with the most slowdown reduction, which is Slow.. 25% ( Correct me if I'm wrong )

Like Bois' idea too, but he like already mentioned himself that would take alot of time in designing and I think NGD already has enough on their mind.

P.S. Oh and like many said before me, I would like to see the spell only activate-able if Caster is near 2/3 allies (or more ofcourse)

[Kitsuni]

Well, I actually do agree with Torcida here... but lets not overreact, a simple ''NGD'' nerf should be enough.

NGD Nerf as in, longer the CD, lower the Duration and more mana cost. Just make sure the speed stays 25% (as it is now if I'm not wrong) I mean, it should be equal to the spell with the most slowdown reduction, which is Slow.. 25% ( Correct me if I'm wrong )

Like Bois' idea too, but he like already mentioned himself that would take alot of time in designing and I think NGD already has enough on their mind.

P.S. Oh and like many said before me, I would like to see the spell only activate-able if Caster is near 2/3 allies (or more ofcourse)
Slow is 30%, as Horn of the wind used to be before it got a minor nerf some months back.

[Gabburtjuh]

shorter dura? nty, longer cd maybe, but believe me, when you're a WM, you're already feeling fucked for the points and effort spend on it.

[time-to-die]

shorter dura? nty, longer cd maybe, but believe me, when you're a WM, you're already feeling fucked for the points and effort spend on it.

Yea it fucked allot of my setup. HOFTW is realy handy if you are hunting with a mate. But with 1vs1 you wish you had ur lvl60 setup when you wasnt a wm.

[Seher]

You would like to absolutely nerf everything in RO right? xD

Not just nerf everything, there's so much to be done about balance... New spells that are actually interesting, ditching tons of useless ones, etc. Balance is important, and the balance we've got now is ... eh yeah. You know.

[Kitsuni]

As others have pointed out, WM powers can't get any more nerfs until NGD fills out the whole tree at least. Maxing an entire tree for a few powers weakens your character alot atm. If this tree was full of powers (like other trees), then each one could individually be much weaker than now for proper balance... but think about what level 60s lose in order to have it in the current state, pretty much all of the DP you gain from 50-60 making the power increase restricted to power points for WMs.

And there's only so many powers that you can put to level 5 with only a few maxable trees, making the abundance of power points less useful than it seems. I guess mages probably get off the easiest on this point, as they are able to max one additional tree at level 50 to begin with, compared to other classes.

My best advice would be to first fill this tree with (useful) powers, tone down the power of existing ones, and add a few power point sinks in there.

[53453467734534]

HotW is relatively similar to Onslaught...
only better (affects caster, larger area, lower mana costs, you lose no power points, duration, doesn´t disappear along with your first attack)

Disadvantages: Less movement speed bonus than Onslaught 5 and has no extra damage.

At least raise HotWs mana costs.

Every player that have proper hands, should be able to win against 1 vs 3 even!

This is correct in my opinion.

In a game, where numerically assymmetric battles are the norm, spells that help 2 players vs 1 player should be avoided, while spells that help one or fewer player(s) against superior numbers are a good thing. However, i am against artificial help (for example HP bonus) if your side is outnumbered.

[NSer]

Beacons are OP, HOTW is at best a spell with a to short CD, it can be canceled by a very common spell with area 10 and range 50, light arrow, or any other slowdown...

ehhmmmm with 1,5 seconds and liek 400 mana cost at lvl1(?) jsut to counter insta cast spell with 30 seconds dura? Yea it reallly counters :D

[Kaixo]

Compared to onslaught is overpowered.
If I read the old justifications of the changes to Onslaught I can't understand why they implemented horn.
In my opinion it should be only a skill for knights, but the warmaster tree is the same for all.

[Torcida]

.

P.S. Oh and like many said before me, I would like to see the spell only activate-able if Caster is near 2/3 allies (or more ofcourse)

Thats the only thing I was asking for

[Latan]

NGD Nerf as in, longer the CD, lower the Duration and more mana cost. Just make sure the speed stays 25% (as it is now if I'm not wrong) I mean, it should be equal to the spell with the most slowdown reduction, which is Slow.. 25% ( Correct me if I'm wrong )


slow 30%
lightning arrow 25%
caltrop's arrow 50%
mind push 70%

[NSer]

slow 30%
lightning arrow 25%
caltrop's arrow 50%
mind push 70%

+70% speed =)
Yea i know archonaut meant leave speed bonus as it is :d

[Kitsuni]

+70% speed =)
Yea i know archonaut meant leave speed bonus as it is :d
Actually, something like 50% speed for 15 secs, instead of 25% speed for 30 secs, could be more balanced, because if the player who is under the effects of the horn eats a CC, they will lose the entire duration almost, effectively making it counterable. Granted, you'd have to be in range to CC to begin with (or slow them). Unfortunately this would remove the 'stack with Onslaught' dynamic that has returned a real use to Onslaught, due to the speed cap, but on the positive side, it would also prevent stacking Horn of the wind with Spring, Mobility and Wild spirit (speed cap is 50% max), effectively preventing some of the situations described here.

Now that I really think about it, I believe that this is the best approach to balance this spell. Same effect, more counterable, no stacking.

[bois]

Would it not be worse if you gave a burst speed of 50% over 15 seconds?
I could be wrong but,
Horn of the wind + level 5 onslaught reaches cap duration 14 seconds.
Horn of the Wind + level 5 spring reaches cap duration 10 seconds.
HoTW + mobility(5) + wild spirit(5) gets to 42% boost duration 20 seconds.

These conventional spells eat both Mana and power points. Hotw Eats no power points and only 100 mana for similar boost and duration.

Added to this, you still have these spells available after HOTW ends. In the other case, except for spring which cools fast and wild spirit which is a passive, the speed spells would be in CD. Your system leaves them all available.

I am not too sure about that suggestion. I have to consider it both with a CC and what would happen if the opponents have no Slow CC available in time or at sufficient counter level.

[Archonaut]

slow 30%
lightning arrow 25%
caltrop's arrow 50%
mind push 70%

Yes 30%

Lightning Arrow 25% As it is, Caltrop's arrow 50% on 5 yes.. who actually uses this at 5? Only hunters who have too much points left so... nobody.
In my personal experience I have never seen even caltrops on 3, it's just wasted if you already have Marksmen who have to fill their tree skill to the top for spells like BoW and Winter Stroke etc.

Mind push 70% Yes, for 8 seconds... And same story, are there even people who use it on 5? Maybe warjurers yes, but come on 8 seconds.

HoTW 25% + Spring 25% (already reaches the maximum gamespeed cap) and if you're lucky you'll get another Onsl. on your ass +30%

Hotw: is 30 seconds dura if I'm not wrong
Spring: 10 seconds
Onsl: 14 seconds

Still think HOTW Should be nerfed...

[Archonaut]

Would it not be worse if you gave a burst speed of 50% over 15 seconds?
I could be wrong but,
Horn of the wind + level 5 onslaught reaches cap duration 14 seconds.
Horn of the Wind + level 5 spring reaches cap duration 10 seconds.
HoTW + mobility(5) + wild spirit(5) gets to 42% boost duration 20 seconds.

These conventional spells eat both Mana and power points. Hotw Eats no power points and only 100 mana for similar boost and duration.

Added to this, you still have these spells available after HOTW ends. In the other case, except for spring which cools fast and wild spirit which is a passive, the speed spells would be in CD. Your system leaves them all available.

I am not too sure about that suggestion. I have to consider it both with a CC and what would happen if the opponents have no Slow CC available in time or at sufficient counter level.

Thank You!

Totally agreed

[NSer]

Caltrop's arrow 50% on 5 yes.. who actually uses this at 5? Only hunters who have too much points left so... nobody.

Enio did used it on 5 some time ago :D

[NSer]

Although i agree that hotw had to be nerfed

[ieti]

We wanted taxi back and we got hotw. Now we want it nerfed again.... :D:clapclap:

[Torcida]

We wanted taxi back and we got hotw. Now we want it nerfed again.... :D:clapclap:

Every fair person agrees that it has to be nerfed :P

[isgandarli]

Every fair person agrees that it has to be nerfed :P

Even whole barbs company of RO? ;)

[Seher]

We wanted taxi back and we got hotw. Now we want it nerfed again.... :D:clapclap:

I'd always prefer a buff of onslaught.

[Castingbeast]

Every fair person agrees that it has to be nerfed :P

The only thing that must be nerfed is your whining.

Make it to WM and stop whining :P

[Torcida]

The only thing that must be nerfed is your whining.

Make it to WM and stop whining :P

Its not whining you just don't want to be realistic and want to keep your god-mode, Which is understandable ofcourse but it will be nerfed anyway so instead of attacking me you could give suggestions about How to nerf it.

[Psynocide]

Every fair person agrees that it has to be nerfed :P

Presumptuous statement.
This thread has received far to much controversy for NGD to consider the "suggestion" either way you slice it.

[Castingbeast]

Its not whining you just don't want to be realistic and want to keep your god-mode, Which is understandable ofcourse but it will be nerfed anyway so instead of attacking me you could give suggestions about How to nerf it.

1. I did not "attack you", just pissed of with the continuous nerfings.

2. Hotw WAS already nerfed and imho it does not need farther nerfing:P :closed1:

[isgandarli]

2. Hotw WAS already nerfed and imho it does not need farther nerfing:P :closed1:

Sure it doesn't need to be nerfed, because this spell should be REMOVED from RO's database as soon as possible.

[NSer]

Sure it doesn't need to be nerfed, because this spell should be REMOVED from RO's database as soon as possible.

Hahahah so funny and so true.... With whole WM update :D

[Archonaut]

Sure it doesn't need to be nerfed, because this spell should be REMOVED from RO's database as soon as possible.

Haha, go Isgandarli, go Isgandarli!

Anyway yes, HOTW is just too powerful in my eyes but deleting the whole spell is maybe a little bit drastic ;p We'll see what NGD will do with it, hopefully change it like they did to confuse.

[isgandarli]

...but deleting the whole spell is maybe a little bit drastic ;p

NGD can create stupid OP spells, but if they remove them it'll be drastic? :)

[Kittypretty]

why are they so cheap too?

mana wise i mean.

I think wm skills should have a considerable drawback in use..be a hero or be selfish.

Say if a conj ever got a summon a major version of pylon/mana com (fully charged) for 15-30 secs at the cost of his mana or life (no rez, just altar). as a a buff/defense station to get ready for a rush with full buffs and mana/barrier. when its up, conj is gone, can sacrifice for a rush, or decide to support as he does normally. knights could tank with 'broken' chains of auras or their own unique but weakening skill possibly. theres no drawbacks really.

I WISHED hunter would have gotten his assassin skill finally, cast from camo, range 6 maybe, or whatever can be ran and cancelled if alert, sanc/lp/pb) otherwise small window of reaction or die. Di would effect, and hunter who successfully took out a key target, is left in enemy ranks, with a small amount of mana, either death or stupid luck to get out of that.

I just wish NGD had thought of more class unique spells, with drawbacks so a wm cant just use without a thought, but weigh their worth or their allies survival.

meh my ideas suck..but i think for such great benefit, should be a great drawback. its how ro has always been, nothing for free and a weakness because of where you chose to excel.

[Huntrare]

I just wish NGD had thought of more class unique spells, with drawbacks so a wm cant just use without a thought, but weigh their worth or their allies survival.


I agree with this very much. Although how many times you look it, many players(I include myself) are still thinking Regnum is a PvP idea.I don't agree with Hotfw needs to be nerfed, i see it as a balanced spell to your zerg. Some people dont have a mount will stay behind very very much.
Archers have Mobility-but i dontsee it very useful even though it is in my setup.
Mages- i dont know any movement spell regarding mages
Warriors- they have much more than others, especially barbs. i see the knight falls behind without onslaught or hotfw. I would make Spring available to both classes.
And please NGD make Mobility a bit useful(and useful i mean 15-20% lvl5). I only use it to keep up with hunters who have lvl 5 Willd Spirit

Regarding the WM spells. I think NGD made a good decision, making a new cap at lvl 60. And at lvl 60 and collect all the armour, you become a Warmaster, it is the highest you can go and you unlock WM skills. Thats why WARMASTER it is the best and highest you can get.
nerfing the spell i dont think its a good idea,but maybe a higher cost of mana,a longer Cooldown and maybe like as some said hitting the caster would cancel the spell or you have 5 secs you cannot attack after the spell, i think it would make things better/interesthing. But that is just my opinion.

[Kitsuni]

Warriors- they have much more than others, especially barbs. i see the knight falls behind without onslaught or hotfw. I would make Spring available to both classes.
The problem is Onslaught is not affecting caster, so Knight has no speed buffs they can cast on themselves.

This is the main reason why HOTW can't get nerfed right now. At least mages have range, so their lack of movement speed isn't as severe as the Knight's. Also, Defensive support is a bit of a joke compared to Mind blank due to the insane speed malus, so Knights fall behind by either from getting CC'ed or resisting CCs.

Eating a Winter stroke every five seconds without a chance to resist it without slowing myself down is extremely frustrating.