News in AMUN - Testing stage

[Ponter]

Hi everyone! Amun is now open to test the next Regnum Online version.

Best regards!


Gameplay:

New: Dual Wielding. Barbarians can now equip an off-hand weapon to complement their main weapon.


Content:

Fixed: Warmaster short bows did not display the correct damage in the combat log.
New: New Cyclops models. Now each variant has its own distinctive look.
Nuevo: Realm vs Realm achievements.
Nuevo: Events achievements.

Look for the off-hand weapons at the central war zone's shops or ask the barbarian weapon's seller in the capital city of your realm.

Off-hand weapons can also be obtained as loot and in Lucky Boxes.

[Torcida]

awesomeeee!

[_Emin_]

Sounds good

[Lukas777]

Fixed: Warmaster short bows did not display the correct damage in the combat log.

Hi Ponter. Thank you.

[Seher]

Not as much RvR achievements (and not so creative ones) as I expected. Animations look nice, as do the new cyclops.

It doesn't look like there are armor changes though. :/ Are some scheduled, or is this going to be a rather dirty dual wielding implementation?

[_Emin_]

Server is down for now.

Edit : it works now, tnx

[Darcyeti]

Hopefully the server is down for a fix. Warcries do not work on Amun. No spring, berserker, Madness etc.

But dual wielding looks nice.

[bois]

Cyclops look nice.
Dual wielding is probably going to be the meat of this one. I am glad they managed to get it out the gates .

Animations for dual wielding look good. Really early in the game so happy testing barbs (nub barbs like me too!).

[_Emin_]

I notice much more phantom swings, someone else is having the same problem?

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Dual Wielding in it's current state is overpowered. As if Barb DPS wasn't high enough.

This video and the following screenshots will prove what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fclw9vrQ9KE

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7925/screenshot2011102201165.png

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7925/screenshot2011102201165.png

[Latan]

off-hand weapons can be obtained by drop and lucky boxes, so i suppose they could be special, magical and epic too. they can also have an extra gem, so i think that is really too much

we tested with a 5% as slow axe + off-hand sword with 6% as gem and the attack speed is really really fast. i can't immagine how much dps could deal a barbarian with 24% attack speed from weapons, 10% from rings, 5% from leggings...and maybe 15 more from tfb... :facepalm3:

[von1958]

has anyone tested knight's auras?

[_Enio_]

has anyone tested knight's auras?

Only with DB on myself vs a ghost - it didnt work.

[Nekudotayim]

off-hand weapons can be obtained by drop and lucky boxes, so i suppose they could be special, magical and epic too. they can also have an extra gem, so i think that is really too much

we tested with a 5% as slow axe + off-hand sword with 6% as gem and the attack speed is really really fast. i can't immagine how much dps could deal a barbarian with 24% attack speed from weapons, 10% from rings, 5% from leggings...and maybe 15 more from tfb... :facepalm3:

Yep, this is going to be completely stupid. Even a barbarian with spear is attacking faster than I am able to cast a fireball these days and now this.

[Immune]

Only with DB on myself vs a ghost - it didnt work.

Technically that might be a fix though, yes?

Hope there's still work being done to balance the dual wielding...

[_Enio_]

Technically that might be a fix though, yes?


There is a 0.05% chance that auras have been fixed AND DB affecting caster fixed the same time.

But its way more likely it (auras) just still completely broken.

[_Nel_]

Dual Wielding in it's current state is overpowered. As if Barb DPS wasn't high enough.

This video and the following screenshots will prove what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fclw9vrQ9KE

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7925/screenshot2011102201165.png

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7925/screenshot2011102201165.png
Nothing wrong here. It's the usual DPS of a barb with a slow weapon, especially if you combine all those powerful spells as you did.

On another hand, as said Latan off-hand weapon can have bonus too. This can be overpowered with strong bonus.
But if bonus are deactivated as for shields, they also have to be removed from lucky box. It would be very irritating to buy the most expensive lucky box and drop a storebought off-hand weapon.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7752/screenshot2011102205002.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/225/screenshot2011102205002.png/)

I also notice some bugs. First one is when someone else is on-guard while dual-wielding, those barbs have knight animations instead of dual-wielding animations. My own barb is ok, but all other barbs in game fight like knights. They carry their off-hand weapon as it was a shield.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7393/shot0002ro.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/225/shot0002ro.jpg/)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNEsKE6qrew&html5=1

Second one is a horse bug. If you fall without damage while riding, even from a very tiny height, horse animation is stuck and your character rides as if he was on a feline mount.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmqFT-DOT7c&html5=1

[Psynocide]

Instead of reusing a previous weapon model could you at least put the effort into designing fresh models for the off hand weapons? :tsk_tsk:
It's hypocritical but I hate it when you get lazy with the aesthetics.. Come on, be creative.

[trulyem]

Well I hope NGD improves the attack animation for dual wielding it kinda sucks...

[NSer]

Not as much RvR achievements (and not so creative ones) as I expected. Animations look nice, as do the new cyclops.

It doesn't look like there are armor changes though. :/ Are some scheduled, or is this going to be a rather dirty dual wielding implementation?

if believe daar's damages dual wielding works like main hand attack+off hand attack=2 handed equivalent :O :D

[Kitsuni]

Nothing wrong here. It's the usual DPS of a barb with a slow weapon, especially if you combine all those powerful spells as you did.
No, it is not the same DPS.

My level 50 barb was outdamaging a level 60 2H barb, doing 1k norms and 1.5k crits at "Fast" speed with level 50 storebought weapons with no bonuses only two lightning rings and no other AS bonuses such as 10% possible from two weapons and 5% from leggings.

As Daar said, duel wielding in its current state is rediculously overpowered.

In the attached screenshot, I attacked for only 3 seconds, which is barely longer than a barb hit with a "Very slow" weapon. Last I checked, level 50 barbs with very slow weapons don't crit for a total damage of 4.5k with just berserk, weapon magni and TFB. Norms are almost as bad - 3k total damage if none are crits, as much as a single hit from a level 60 barb with a Warmaster weapon and with Fulminating level 5. Again, keep in mind my level and very poor gear...

If this update goes live in its current state, it will be an insult to 2H barbs who have worked hard to get their WM weapons. They will be outclassed by their own class.
(Not to mention the balance implications.)

[NSer]

No, it is not the same DPS.

My level 50 barb was outdamaging a level 60 2H barb, doing 1k norms and 1.5k crits at "Fast" speed with level 50 storebought weapons with no bonuses only two lightning rings and no other AS bonuses such as 10% possible from two weapons and 5% from leggings.

As Daar said, duel wielding in its current state is rediculously overpowered.

In the attached screenshot, I attacked for only 3 seconds, which is barely longer than a barb hit with a "Very slow" weapon. Last I checked, level 50 barbs with very slow weapons don't crit for a total damage of 4.5k with just berserk, weapon magni and TFB. Norms are almost as bad - 3k total damage if none are crits, as much as a single hit from a level 60 barb with a Warmaster weapon and with Fulminating level 5. Again, keep in mind my level and very poor gear...

If this update goes live in its current state, it will be an insult to 2H barbs who have worked hard to get their WM weapons. They will be outclassed by their own class.
(Not to mention the balance implications.)

ehm.. i messed up. i hardly do more than 1k normals with MEDium speed. and fulmi 5 normals are.. booo 100 damage more.seems jewelry have hard effect on those dual wield weps

[blood-raven]

Dual wielding is cool and all.
But what i'm intrested in: will we get even more crashes/lags after this update?
Cause if we do, this game becomes unplayable

[Gabburtjuh]

http://imageshack.us/g/812/screenshot2011102211530.jpg/
Dual wielding

http://imageshack.us/g/153/screenshot2011102211530.jpg/
Non special clay

http://imageshack.us/g/402/screenshot2011102211533.jpg/
Thorkul sword

http://imageshack.us/g/87/screenshot2011102211543.jpg/
Shop guardian axe

Without wep bonusses, it seems pretty balanced, I don't see why everyone says it's OP....

[Latan]

I don't see why everyone says it's OP....

because you saw the damage/attack speed without


Without wep bonusses

now immagine your dps with an epic lev 60 off hand weapon with +50/80 dmg, 5% attack speed and a gem

[wizardmagewarlock]

Don't worry guys. This is just the Testing state, so they might fix the barbarian damage soon.
Btw, the premium achievements are....... :S

[Kaixo]

It should be:
- double weapon or pack of 2 weapons
- or off hand weapon without bonuses (like shields)

Now if you want to use 2 weapons it's more difficult to have a good set, if you have a good set you can have more attack speed,etc from the second weapon, with a gem 14% extra attack speed, that's ridiculous.

[Latan]

Now if you want to use 2 weapons it's more difficult to have a good set

not so true.
i'm a knight and i see in the commerce chat A LOT of lev 55-60 1 handed weapon with +55/65 damages, while i see few 2 handed weapons with the same bonus. this because of 2 reasons:
1) barbarians population is maybe 4 or 5 times the knight population
2) barbarian could drop even 1 handed weapons from the lucky boxes, so atm a +50 1h weapon is sold for gold or minor drops, while a similar 2h weapon is only traded for high level gems/drops

moreover many barbarian will use lucky boxes to obtain magic/epic off-hand wapons, that means that A LOT of 1h weapons (main-hand and off-hand) will be available soon for many barbarians in every realm

[Carn]

Whatever you do, nerf the dual weapons NOT the barbarian overall damage.
Dual weapons are currently unbalanced.

[NSer]

Whatever you do, nerf the dual weapons NOT the barbarian overall damage.
Dual weapons are currently unbalanced.

had to agree on this. damage calculation is completely ****ed up.

[Gabburtjuh]

because you saw the damage/attack speed without



now immagine your dps with an epic lev 60 off hand weapon with +50/80 dmg, 5% attack speed and a gem

Yes, and I mentioned it was without bonusses...
This however, is not a imbalance in the dual wielding itself, dual wielding is fine, bonusses on secondary items however, are not, hence why spec+ shields got removed.

I suggest to remove the option for special+ secondary weapons, or to make the best weapons qualities count (e.g. epic normal hand sword of alloy steel master quality vs off hand magical of fine steel superiour, normal hand counts)

[bois]

So far I have not been able to drop either a magical or epic off handed weapon. I tried 25 times so far. I was able to drop a special from a bronze box. It had a bonus of +16 ice on it.
Also I was able to engrave a socket on the off hand weapon and stick an AS gem in there.

So far, what Kitsunie and Daar wrote seems to be on target. This is just from my limited experiments .
I assume the base speed of the attack will be from the main hand (based on what I saw). The cumulative effect of gems in both weapons is probably too much. Like everyone says above, leave the off hand weapon without the enhancements especially gem sockets.
It would be interesting to see how the Hit chance/ critical chance thing works out too as it seems the HC from both weapons add up.

[Latan]

I assume the base speed of the attack will be from the main hand

nope.
we tested it yesterday: me with the knight (10% a.s. from rings and 5% a.s. from leggings), rudepravda with his barbarian (10% a.s. from rings, 4% from leggings), both with slow weapon in the main hand (with no attack speed bonus) and he had a medium off-hand weapon. even if i had 1% more a.s. he could swing faster than me, so i think the attack speed is half way between the main hand and the off hand speeds

[Kellindil82]

My main wep was a hammer and i had an off hand sword and i couldn't use slashing skills. Is this normal like this?

[bois]

It seems the main hand weapon governs the weapon skills you can access.

[_Nel_]

No, it is not the same DPS.

My level 50 barb was outdamaging a level 60 2H barb, doing 1k norms and 1.5k crits at "Fast" speed with level 50 storebought weapons with no bonuses only two lightning rings and no other AS bonuses such as 10% possible from two weapons and 5% from leggings.

As Daar said, duel wielding in its current state is rediculously overpowered.

In the attached screenshot, I attacked for only 3 seconds, which is barely longer than a barb hit with a "Very slow" weapon. Last I checked, level 50 barbs with very slow weapons don't crit for a total damage of 4.5k with just berserk, weapon magni and TFB. Norms are almost as bad - 3k total damage if none are crits, as much as a single hit from a level 60 barb with a Warmaster weapon and with Fulminating level 5. Again, keep in mind my level and very poor gear...

If this update goes live in its current state, it will be an insult to 2H barbs who have worked hard to get their WM weapons. They will be outclassed by their own class.
(Not to mention the balance implications.)

No, the standard output damage is almost the same. I did tests comparing 2H weapons with 1H + off-hand weapons of same speed and same level. And results give 2H weapons tiny better damage than dual-wielding.

Here are the tested weapons :

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4508/dualwieldingweapons.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/153/dualwieldingweapons.jpg/)

Here is the video : (spells = magnif weapon + berserk only)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhkGSiFhkFY&html5=1

Here is the results :

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5894/dualwieldingreport.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/dualwieldingreport.png/)

You'll notice dual-wielding is faster than 2H weapon, I dont know why. Yesterday when Amun was realeased, I did quick and dirty tests about speed and I found 1.92 seconds between hits (with 2 RoL) for all slow weapons : 2H, dual-wielding and 1H alone. I don't know if there was an update between yesterday and today.
NB: To calculate "second per hit", I did (image of last hit - image of first hit) / (amount of hits * 30 images per second).

The problem is you're comparing a fast weapon with a very slow weapon and adding Thirst For Blood into the equation. That can't work, because you add at all your hits a fixed damage, no matter the base damage output or the speed of your weapon. And if crits occurs, this crit multiplies the damage bonus, and you even keep the damage bonus + the speed bonus until a normal hit happens (very very old known bug in this spell), making unbalance between fast and very slow weapons with Thirst For Blood even worse. Once again it's a proportionality issue: fixed damage bonus vs. proportionality damage bonus. The problem is in Thirst for Blood, not in dual-wielding.

[Ponter]

It seems the main hand weapon governs the weapon skills you can access.

That is true. As Bois say, the main weapon determinates wich skils are your character availabe to cast.

[Zas_]

Ok, dual wielding for barbs in next update.. anything new for balance and broken hunter class ?

[Kellindil82]

That is true. As Bois say, the main weapon determinates wich skils are your character availabe to cast.

But wouldn't be cool to cast for example blunt skills with one hand and slash skills with other? Some ppl already changing weps in battles for that, would be nice if you don't have to do that.

[Carn]

But wouldn't be cool to cast for example blunt skills with one hand and slash skills with other? Some ppl already changing weps in battles for that, would be nice if you don't have to do that.

OP much...?

[Kellindil82]

OP much...?

You can do it already if you switch weps so would be the same but more comfortable.

[Carn]

You can do it already if you switch weps so would be the same but more comfortable.

Most barbs don't switch weapons because you lose precious seconds, being able to use 2 weapon skill trees with dual wield would be way to OP.
You would have 2 spells of each

example: You do ribs breaker on someone, it got resisted, so you do a balestra.
You could spam spells like mind squasher -> south cross -> precise blow-> beast attack

[blood-raven]

example: You do ribs breaker on someone, it got resisted, so you do a balestra.
You could spam spells like mind squasher -> south cross -> precise blow-> beast attack

If you have the mana for it :p.

[Carn]

If you have the mana for it :p.

LOL >.<

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[The_Krome_Dragon]

So far in this thread the best fix for the OP side of dual wield is to have off hand weaps not have bonuses or at least have a limit of bonus available( mabey hc or str only). This would prevent the stacking of stats and with out this dual wield is fairly balanced. In conclusion Good Job and ty NGD for finally putting in dual wield:clapclap:

[53453467734534]

But wouldn't be cool to cast for example blunt skills with one hand and slash skills with other? Some ppl already changing weps in battles for that, would be nice if you don't have to do that.


This is an interesting idea, but to balance it:

IF you equip yourself with 2 weapons of a different type,
you will lose access to the "Two Handed Mastery" tree,
but you can use two weapon trees in battle.

If you equip yourself with 2 weapons of the same type,
you have access to "Two Handed Mastery" and one weapon tree (no change)

That way "Dual Wielding" would not be a cosmetic change only, but create some new builds.

P.S: Are off-hand Warmaster weapons planned?

[Gabburtjuh]

So far in this thread the best fix for the OP side of dual wield is to have off hand weaps not have bonuses or at least have a limit of bonus available( mabey hc or str only). This would prevent the stacking of stats and with out this dual wield is fairly balanced. In conclusion Good Job and ty NGD for finally putting in dual wield:clapclap:

No bonus at all or rage, shields can't have bonusses for thesame reason, and with weps it would be way more OP....

[Kitsuni]

By the way, something seems wrong with the setups of some of the testers. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I find some of these screenshots of people only getting 700 norms out of duel wielding in the mid-50s to be quite inconsistent with our test results. Half of barbs are getting 1.5k+ norms (at level 60) out of mediocre weaponry, others barely 50-75% of that. Clearly, there is some buff or jewelry or something that is having a huge effect on duel wielding's success.

In my tests on Amun I killed a level 60 2H barb 2 out of 3 times with my level 50, within the duration of Kick(4), using sheer DPS.

I would wager that one of the buffs is being applied separately to both weapons... (Weapon magni? TFB?)

[Kyrottimus]

http://i54.tinypic.com/fcqqon.jpg

[Gabburtjuh]

By the way, something seems wrong with the setups of some of the testers. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I find some of these screenshots of people only getting 700 norms out of duel wielding in the mid-50s to be quite inconsistent with our test results. Half of barbs are getting 1.5k+ norms (at level 60) out of mediocre weaponry, others barely 50-75% of that. Clearly, there is some buff or jewelry or something that is having a huge effect on duel wielding's success.

In my tests on Amun I killed a level 60 2H barb 2 out of 3 times with my level 50, within the duration of Kick(4), using sheer DPS.

I would wager that one of the buffs is being applied separately to both weapons... (Weapon magni? TFB?)

I used berserk, overwhelming strenght and wep magni all lvl 5, with lvl 50 weps, I was getting 700 normals, but if you add tfb and fulmi this increases alot ofc, but that's thesame with a 2h med lvl 48 axe...

jewelry = 2x RoL and a non dmging amu.

I think people are just unaware how high the dps is you could already get with a medium weapon, unless someone can show me relyable screens with the dual wielded damage being way better as you can do with a 2h wep, I still think the only imbalance is that you can get double bonusses.

[NSer]

I used berserk, overwhelming strenght and wep magni all lvl 5, with lvl 50 weps, I was getting 700 normals, but if you add tfb and fulmi this increases alot ofc, but that's thesame with a 2h med lvl 48 axe...

jewelry = 2x RoL and a non dmging amu.

I think people are just unaware how high the dps is you could already get with a medium weapon, unless someone can show me relyable screens with the dual wielded damage being way better as you can do with a 2h wep, I still think the only imbalance is that you can get double bonusses.

*looking on 4,2k damage in 3 seconds by barb with lvl48 medium axe* true. the only problem is double bonuses..... Allow mages wear 2 staves at a time :D?

[Arafails]

I think people are just unaware how high the dps is you could already get with a medium weapon, unless someone can show me relyable screens with the dual wielded damage being way better as you can do with a 2h wep, I still think the only imbalance is that you can get double bonusses.

I dunno, man. I'm taking out leader mobs with barely any HP loss (using a strafing technique, not just standing hitting them), and taking out fort guard pairs with sufficient speed that I can rest back up to full hp in the time it takes the first one to respawn again, at level 55. If medium weapons could already do that, they were already imbalanced.

Definitely having bonuses available on these off hand weapons is overpowered to the extreme. The damage output may need adjusting anyway.

[Gabburtjuh]

I dunno, man. I'm taking out leader mobs with barely any HP loss (using a strafing technique, not just standing hitting them), and taking out fort guard pairs with sufficient speed that I can rest back up to full hp in the time it takes the first one to respawn again, at level 55. If medium weapons could already do that, they were already imbalanced.

Definitely having bonuses available on these off hand weapons is overpowered to the extreme. The damage output may need adjusting anyway.

Point is that there were no lvl 50+ medium weps, so nobody noticed, but with my lvl 48 guardian axe I was able to do 1,5k normals and 2k+ SCs to

I think the problem is a combination of armor calculation and increased levels that make it seem OP, let's say dual wielding with elite weps give you the damage of a nice great clay ok? The lvl <50 mediums weapons were affected way more by armor due to lower damage, but with elite weapons, armor gets insignificant due to the damage being comparable with a decent lvl 50 slow weapon, but at a higher speed.
Which brings us back at the armor calculation problem...

And bonusses, needless to comment on, agreed like said before...

[Kyrottimus]

This seems to me that NGD was humoring us, putting this up on Amun on a Friday last-minute (probably just before leaving work) before the weekend started.

Obviously, they don't work on the weekends. Obviously, this is a foundational build and still in testing and in need of tweaking, refining, etc. before it goes live.

I'm also sure NGD loves constructive feedback, however, at this stage, which looks like an "alpha" build of dual wielding (main party animations work but other party use knight stance xD), it's not quite polished enough to go live.

Wait for NGD to actually finish this feature before flipping out and spontaneously combusting.

[DkySven]

Regarding the bonus on off hand weapons, I believe this should be in line with the shields a knight has. So either both have a bonus slot or none.

I do like that dual wielding is added.

[_Nel_]

If it's really an alpha version and if they released it as is only to get some feedbacks, so I suggest them to remove all specific off-hand weapons and instead give automaticaly a 2nd weapon in left hand when a barbarian is equiped with a 1H weapon.

Therefore:
- remove all current off-hand weapons from merchants and lucky boxes.
- when a barb is equipped with a 1H weapon, an off-hand weapon will appear automaticaly in the left hand.
- the off-hand weapon will be the same 3D model as the main weapon.
- the off-hand weapon will add around 33% of base damage of main weapon.

With base damage of main weapon, I mean only base damage. So, no bonus from material, no bonus from special, magical or epic, and no bonus from gem.

So, if I take this 1H weapon as an example, off-hand weapon will look like this:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/933/dualwielding.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/dualwielding.png/)

33% of base damage seems ok, since it's around the difference between 1H and 2H warmaster weapons of same speed without bonus.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4061/warmasterweapon.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/warmasterweapon.jpg/)

Pros:
- No fixed damage bonus. Currently off-hand weapon gives a fixed damage bonus not related to damage of main weapon, that means better damage to fast weapons and lower damage to slow weapons.
- Fake off-hand weapon and proportional damage of main weapon mean easier to maintain. If you decide later to adjust damage of dual-wielding, no need to tweak all existing off-hand weapons, only one percentage is enough.
- No need to tweak speed between main and off-hand weapon, they both have the same.
- No need to add new off-hand weapons for each level.
- Easier to implement, less bugs, less imbalance.
- Better harmony with same 3D model in both hands. It looks kinda weird to carry a hammer and a sword or a spear at the same time. And it will remove confusion of which spell tree to level up.

Cons:
- Have to recode dual-wielding.

[Kitsuni]

If it's really an alpha version and if they released it as is only to get some feedbacks, so I suggest them to remove all specific off-hand weapons and instead give automaticaly a 2nd weapon in left hand when a barbarian is equiped with a 1H weapon.

Therefore:
- remove all current off-hand weapons from merchants and lucky boxes.
- when a barb is equipped with a 1H weapon, an off-hand weapon will appear automaticaly in the left hand.
- the off-hand weapon will be the same 3D model as the main weapon.
- the off-hand weapon will add around 33% of base damage of main weapon.

With base damage of main weapon, I mean only base damage. So, no bonus from material, no bonus from special, magical or epic, and no bonus from gem.

So, if I take this 1H weapon as an example, off-hand weapon will look like this:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/933/dualwielding.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/dualwielding.png/)

33% of base damage seems ok, since it's around the difference between 1H and 2H warmaster weapons of same speed without bonus.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4061/warmasterweapon.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/warmasterweapon.jpg/)

Pros:
- No fixed damage bonus. Currently off-hand weapon gives a fixed damage bonus not related to damage of main weapon, that means better damage to fast weapons and lower damage to slow weapons.
- Fake off-hand weapon and proportional damage of main weapon mean easier to maintain. If you decide later to adjust damage of dual-wielding, no need to tweak all existing off-hand weapons, only one percentage is enough.
- No need to tweak speed between main and off-hand weapon, they both have the same.
- No need to add new off-hand weapons for each level.
- Easier to implement, less bugs, less imbalance.
- Better harmony with same 3D model in both hands. It looks kinda weird to carry a hammer and a sword or a spear at the same time. And it will remove confusion of which spell tree to level up.

Cons:
- Have to recode dual-wielding.
NGD won't do it because:

- Does not sell more lucky boxes.

[mute]

If it's really an alpha version and if they released it as is only to get some feedbacks, so I suggest them to remove all specific off-hand weapons and instead give automaticaly a 2nd weapon in left hand when a barbarian is equiped with a 1H weapon.

Therefore:
- remove all current off-hand weapons from merchants and lucky boxes.
- when a barb is equipped with a 1H weapon, an off-hand weapon will appear automaticaly in the left hand.
- the off-hand weapon will be the same 3D model as the main weapon.
- the off-hand weapon will add around 33% of base damage of main weapon.

With base damage of main weapon, I mean only base damage. So, no bonus from material, no bonus from special, magical or epic, and no bonus from gem.

So, if I take this 1H weapon as an example, off-hand weapon will look like this:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/933/dualwielding.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/dualwielding.png/)

33% of base damage seems ok, since it's around the difference between 1H and 2H warmaster weapons of same speed without bonus.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4061/warmasterweapon.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/warmasterweapon.jpg/)

Pros:
- No fixed damage bonus. Currently off-hand weapon gives a fixed damage bonus not related to damage of main weapon, that means better damage to fast weapons and lower damage to slow weapons.
- Fake off-hand weapon and proportional damage of main weapon mean easier to maintain. If you decide later to adjust damage of dual-wielding, no need to tweak all existing off-hand weapons, only one percentage is enough.
- No need to tweak speed between main and off-hand weapon, they both have the same.
- No need to add new off-hand weapons for each level.
- Easier to implement, less bugs, less imbalance.
- Better harmony with same 3D model in both hands. It looks kinda weird to carry a hammer and a sword or a spear at the same time. And it will remove confusion of which spell tree to level up.

Cons:
- Have to recode dual-wielding.

This is the same idea I had. I think that would be a good solution.

[bois]

Alpha build ? This feels more like a release candidate to me.

Bonuses on off hand weapon? Not good in my view. Even Hit Chance is gong to be debatable. With a little tweak and using dual blunt weapons I was able to get up to 54% Critical rate already (using spells). I am sure others can go further as my barb is just 51 .
I still have been unable to drop magical or epic off hand weapons so unless somebody has seen any, I am going to go out on a limb and say there are none.
Specials do exist though. I dropped one with +16 ice and +12 HC (mace). Got that from a Bronze box. Don't waste money on platinum boxes to get off hand weapons. I tried 40 times and dropped none.
I would like to know the speed formula when 2 weapons of different speeds are combined. Actually, I would be interested in having a confirmed figure of what the new speeds are for slow, v slow, medium, fast weapons. I don't know and the wiki seems out of date with that info.
The fixed damage thing well.. let us say it is going to be interesting to see how it all works out.
Best of luck NGD.

[VeterKh]

good idea xD now mine barb can use magna knight axe xD super!
TY NGD xD

[Gabburtjuh]

I'd like a official post of NGD what they think about the strongly forwarded mentality by the players to NOT give off handed weapons bonusses....

[Narzoul]

Nel's numbers are quite right, indeed 2H melee weapons have 4/3 times as much base damage as 1H weapons. As far as I know, available bonuses and their maximum values are the same. Which means creating a basic balance (in theory) is quite simple:

Multiply the main-hand weapon's base damage by x, and the off-hand weapon's base damage by y. As long as x+y = 4/3, it should match 2H weapons. Do something similar with bonuses, except that x+y = 1. (e.g. halve the bonuses on both the main-hand and off-hand weapons when dual-wielding). This would even work without having new off-hand weapons added to the game, just using the existing 1H weapons.

I see two "problems" with the above. First, one could argue that getting two good 1H weapons is more difficult than getting a single good 2H weapon, which is a little unfair. Second, dual-wielding in this sense brings only a cosmetic/visual upgrade and greater weapon choice, but apart from that there's pretty much no gameplay difference (other than gaining access to Fast weapons). I'd favor solutions that add some "twist" to dual-wielding other than just new attack animations. Hence, I'll throw in a few more ideas in this vein. Some of these ideas assume that dual-wielding could have higher base damage or higher bonuses compared to 2H weapons.

Decrease the Strength modifier when dual-wielding
Add a "natural" attack speed penalty when dual-wielding
Use separate hit chance rolls and/or separate damage rolls for the main-hand and off-hand attacks (perhaps also for skills based on attack damage?). This is currently problematic due to the fixed damage reduction by armor, perhaps this can be solved by halving armor effectiveness against each hit. (Also halve the fixed strength damage bonus, obviously).
Create differences in some of the skills (especially those in the two-handed mastery discipline) when dual-wielding, e.g. Berserk could give only +30% damage but also +15% attack speed, or keep the +50% damage but decrease attack speed (to compensate for having higher base damage and/or more item bonuses), etc.


I think that's it for now, I may have had more ideas but I forgot them while I typed this up. :P

[survive]

I'd like a official post of NGD what they think about the strongly forwarded mentality by the players to NOT give off handed weapons bonusses....

I have to disagree Dutch... simple reason... that is nerfing... the way it goes knights have been asking for bonuses back on shields for years.. ever since they were taken away... and now you want to nerf the barbs because shields dont have bonuses... just give shileds back bonuses.. there are still some bonused shields floating around out there...

as for as making barbs OP... i am not in agreement... doing tests on my barb, i found duel-weilding to be ~same speed... and the damage was no greater amount than my current 2-handed weapon using the same setup as i curently use..., in most cases a little less... i for one will probably stick with my 2-handed weapon and setup, because i see no advantage with going duel-wield ... maybe if i was a fulminating user, for the multiplier damage (guess the same for SC monkeys)... but i still believe that fulminating along with confuse should be wiped out of the game.. (just my opinion, hasnt changed in 5 years.. not going to anytime soon) ...

on another note... Dutch, your "...strongly forwarded mentality by the players..." is repeated posts by 3 predomitely knight players...

mind you .. 3 good players that do play barb as well... but it is not thier main class... if you want a barb, play your barb... if you want knight, play your knight... if you want to nerf barb because your knight doesnt get what you want for it... just stop!!! and yes, i believe you should get your bonuses on your shields... STOP THE NERF TRAIN!!!!

now i had to plat box weapons to try this.. and mind you on Amun, they were incredible epic main-hand, and off-hand weapons... and they did less damage than my 2-hand weapon... better weapons, lower to same damage... it is fine how it is.. might use some tweaking... but settle down...

as for weapons, ... where are they? lvl 37 off-hand hammer... tops? sure there are swords.. not everyone uses swords... where are mag off-hands? WM off-hands? there are lvl 60 barb swords, and lvl 60 barb off-hand swords... where is the rest of the selection? can a elite knight weapon be used for main hand? knight mag weapons? can knights use an off-hand weapon in place of thier shield? ... questions i would like to see answered....


my 2-cents on the subject.... until some changes... i will still be happily swinging my 2-handed hammer around xD

[PT_DaAr_PT]

The release of the patch is today so I doubt that this is gonna be fixed in time(or ever fixed).

Certain Elite knight weapons can't be equiped for dual wielding because their requirement is actually set to Knight instead of Warrior.

Examples are the Elite Knight Mace and Elite Knight Hammer that can only be equiped by Knights, therefore Barbarians can't use these weapons for dual wielding.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7348/screenshot2011102613182.jpg
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7348/screenshot2011102613182.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8563/screenshot2011102613183.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7792/screenshot2011102613184.jpg
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/383/screenshot2011102613211.jpg

[Latan]

we're saying that from the beginning of the warmaster expansion because we couldn't fuse some weapons due to their requirements.

[Gabburtjuh]

Acctually, barb is my main atm rumple, since over a month, but anyways, barbs dual wielding 2 epics can easily have 50-60 damage more as someone with a 2handed weapon, which with barb's damage multipliers easily comes down to 100-150 damage, more with fulminating, not to mention possible attack speed stacking, and it's not even implented yet, so it wouldn't be a nerf either ...

[Psynocide]

"What was the reason behind removing shield drops with bonuses? (English Forum)

A Balance reason. Knights would have an extra slot to increase their main
stats if we didn't remove them."

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?p=1262236#post1262236

Same reasoning should be applied to the off-hand weapons.

[Kitsuni]

The whole implementation of duel wielding just screams selling boxes. I wouldn't be suprised if they added shield bonuses back just to sell more boxes. The NGD that made balance changes with premium items seems to've lost interest in that; that much is evident with the armor enhancement gems, dire need for horses in the current state of the game, and someone also mentioned premium elixers can be used even if you got hit recently without having to wait on them?

I really wish things would be done in more simple, effective ways, such as the solutions proposed by other users in this thread, but I already know this is going live.

Eh, I think it's about time for another six month break...

[ayexeyen_]

I still have been unable to drop magical or epic off hand weapons so unless somebody has seen any, I am going to go out on a limb and say there are none.Best of luck NGD.

I am sorry to disappoint you. No joking.

Take a look at the image please.

[VeterKh]

I am sorry to disappoint you. No joking.

Take a look at the image please.


it was probably 100 the bought lucky box? xD

[PT_DaAr_PT]

"What was the reason behind removing shield drops with bonuses? (English Forum)

A Balance reason. Knights would have an extra slot to increase their main
stats if we didn't remove them."

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?p=1262236#post1262236

Same reasoning should be applied to the off-hand weapons.

They did the opposite. Shields with bonuses are coming back.

NOTE: NGD accidentally omitted from this change log - The game is adding the chance to get shields with bonuses from loot and lucky boxes. We will have more details about this in the morning.

lol @ accidentally

[_Nel_]

They did the opposite. Shields with bonuses are coming back.

How to sabotage balance on purpose... :tsk_tsk:

Kitsunie was right.

[bois]

What balance? The bank balance of NGD accounts ?

This seems to be one of those and I think they will be successful. They will sell boxes, gems and gem engrave sockets.

Will be interesting to see barbs running around with the capability to get 8-9 bonuses from weapons. I can't see any shield bonus (even const) properly counteracting that.
Don't worry, Archers and mages will get their chance to spend away on boxes soon enough once the barb/knight train is tapped out.

/Sarcasm
:tsk_tsk::facepalm2::tsk_tsk:

[NSer]

Welcome back balance!... Oh wait.......

[VeterKh]

tank = TANK

[pauluzz]

Changelog version 1.8.0


Halloween and DUAL WIELDING patch



Gameplay:

New: Dual Wielding. Barbarians can now equip an off-hand weapon to complement their main weapon. (see below for more detail)

Fixed: Mages and Archers attack animations should no longer get stuck from time to time.



Content:

New: Halloween Event (see description).

New: New Cyclops models. Now each variant has its own distinctive look.

New: New werewolves models for all variants.

New: Realm vs Realm achievement category added.

New: Events achievements category added.

New Achievements added for both new categories

Fixed: New icons for previous Achievements to help differentiate them.



Content|Map:

New: The structure dividing Alsius' initiation zone and its middle zone has been revamped.

Modified: Lighting effects for all structures in the realms initiation zones have been improved.

Modified: Brazier effects have been optimized to work in Fixed mode.



Content|Items:

New: Off-hand weapons for barbarians (swords and hammers in the current version). They can be bought from the proper merchants.

Fixed: Warmaster short bows did not display the correct damage in the combat log.



DUAL WIELDING: Dual Wielding is available for Barbarians ONLY. There is no requirement to dual wield. Players need no new skill. Starting at level 10, if they are a barbarian they can dual wield. Players will need a MAIN HAND, and an OFF HAND, weapon to dual wield. All previous One Hand weapons in Realms count as a MAIN HAND weapon. After this patch, players can obtain Off Hand weapons to equip to their off hand. You can NOT equip a non-off hand weapon in your off-hand, or vice versa. Off Hand weapons can be received from item drops, merchants, or lucky boxes.



NOTE: NGD accidentally omitted from this change log - The game is adding the chance to get shields with bonuses from loot and lucky boxes. We will have more details about this in the morning.

Regards

[NSer]

Regards

what was point of copypasting game samba's forum :D?
post on Ra is from gamesamba lol
P. S. have lulz: NGD will post changelog on it's own only in 20:00 PM GMT (theoretical update time) don't know real one tho

[pauluzz]

what was point of copypasting game samba's forum :D?

I dont think i have to answer that question (?)

Who watches samba forum? I copied this from spanish forum to show it to the english community

[ayexeyen_]

it was probably 100 the bought lucky box? xD

Honestly it was the first or the second. And the following was also a magic off hand weapon. I don't know what to say. Bad luck for Bois, or maybe they did not implemented the lucky box system for the off hand weapons at that time.

[time-to-die]

Thnx for adding it paul!

PAULTJE PILS!!!!:beerchug:

[NSer]

Insane lags on ra....
Amun is off
UPDATE SOON :D

[_Nel_]

Second one is a horse bug. If you fall without damage while riding, even from a very tiny height, horse animation is stuck and your character rides as if he was on a feline mount.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmqFT-DOT7c&html5=1

Is it possible to get this bug fixed ?
Sound loop while on bugged horse really gets on my nerves.

[VeterKh]

The release of the patch is today so I doubt that this is gonna be fixed in time(or ever fixed).

Certain Elite knight weapons can't be equiped for dual wielding because their requirement is actually set to Knight instead of Warrior.

Examples are the Elite Knight Mace and Elite Knight Hammer that can only be equiped by Knights, therefore Barbarians can't use these weapons for dual wielding.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7348/screenshot2011102613182.jpg
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7348/screenshot2011102613182.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8563/screenshot2011102613183.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7792/screenshot2011102613184.jpg
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/383/screenshot2011102613211.jpg

nothing fixed...



now the same problems...
mace, hammer and magna knight axe (maybe something not here) - only for knight... all other ( axe, sword) for warriors... it's bug or ???

[Ashnurazg]

What's about the new GUI? I remember that Chilko said something about that on Amun before 1.7.9 final release. Will it be included in the next few iterations?
The current GUI seems to be inefficient, without vsync and hidden GUI the framerate increases by 20 (at least) - in consideration to when the GUI is visible.

btw. Dual Wielding is not that cool feature. You must spend gold, cool drops, Xim or simply time at farming for new weapons. :thumb_down:

[Ricksa]

So how long until 2 handed weapons are completely history?.... they cant compete with 2 x epic weapons at faster rate.... this update to me just killed off 2 handed weapons.

[bois]

They made no promises about GUI. They just suggested they may put in the first foundation stuff hopefully before year's end if they had the time.

Beside the few random dismounts (on flattish land) that cause me some damage, there is this irritating thing that happens when you click an object like door or magnanite rock when riding. The animation on horse seizes, my character keeps the riding animation and there is this irritating reverb noise from the horse gallop sound byte. When I dismount I end up halfway in the ground with the riding animation. Sitting solves this. Is there a fix out there for it? It only appeared since the update.
I have been getting some phantom swings. I still think it is because of my bad ping. Can anyone confirm whether phantom swings are on the upsurge again. I am not sure.

Oh wait I see Nel recorded the irritating horse thing. Good job. Only when I dismount I end up in the ground.

[The_Krome_Dragon]

I have been getting some phantom swings. I still think it is because of my bad ping. Can anyone confirm whether phantom swings are on the upsurge again. I am not sure.



Ya i get phantom swings with medium spd weaps, havent had trouble with my slow axe tho. ive also been having rly bad lag spikes fairly often this past week.

As for the 2h weaps i find they r still useful for getting a last strong hit in.

[Psynocide]

"This post has been deleted by gamemod" - The truth hurts doesn't it?

Hypocrites..
If you're so desperate for cash, make a subscription feature and be done with it instead of going back on yourself.

[Ricksa]

"This post has been deleted by gamemod" - The truth hurts doesn't it?

Hypocrites..
If you're so desperate for cash, make a subscription feature and be done with it instead of going back on yourself.

Same happened here deleting left and right and not even on non-stickied threads are you allowed to say anything...

[standistortion]

They made no promises about GUI. They just suggested they may put in the first foundation stuff hopefully before year's end if they had the time.
It was said in realm chat that the GUI would hopefully be ready in october (screenshots where posted on the forum). Not complaining, I'd rather wait for something stunning (like the castles) than something rushed together but have given up playing mage, the spellbar is just too damn clunky.

[schachteana]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBCtxyK_Yfw&feature=feedu

wtf oO

[Phlue4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBCtxyK_Yfw&feature=feedu

wtf oO

nice one xD

[Ronso]

Come on NGD, start a new event: spawn a gigantic red,blue and green dragon :D
Can you even barbarian weapon Wm times for the left hand do? :D

[Phlue4]

Can you even barbarian weapon Wm times for the left hand do? :D

wut?
"könnt ihr überhaupt barbaren waffen wm zeiten für die linke hand tun?" wtf?

[Arafails]

wut?
"könnt ihr überhaupt barbaren waffen wm zeiten für die linke hand tun?" wtf?
I think it was about autoerotica but I'm not sure....

(Seriously though, they seem to be bitching about the lack of warmaster dual wield weapons).

[_Nel_]

Second one is a horse bug. If you fall without damage while riding, even from a very tiny height, horse animation is stuck and your character rides as if he was on a feline mount.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmqFT-DOT7c&html5=1

This bug occurs only with a female character on horse.

Everything is ok with male characters or with feline mounts.

[Kaixo]

They did the opposite. Shields with bonuses are coming back.

lol @ accidentally
The team dedicated to balance lacks common sense. :facepalm3:
Now archers and barbarians with 2 handed weapons get less potential bonuses from equipment.

[_Nel_]

Second one is a horse bug. If you fall without damage while riding, even from a very tiny height, horse animation is stuck and your character rides as if he was on a feline mount.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmqFT-DOT7c&html5=1

This bug occurs only with a female character on horse.

Everything is ok with male characters or with feline mounts.

Bug fixed !!
Thank you very much NGD ! :thumb: :thumb:

[Ponter]

Bug fixed !!
Thank you very much NGD ! :thumb: :thumb:

Thanks for your feedback! Best regards!