Boats should exist?

[Lekarz]

Since NGD 'fixed' jumping between gates I think we should do the same as our Game Samba friends did.

It doesn't matter which realm attack, it's nearly always the same :
army -> boats -> jump between gates -> run for gems -> get them and *wait for reinforcements from boats side* -> run as zerg by gate and horn till bridge.

*ble ble* - option

Vote brothers and sisters or ban me :bangin:

[UmarilsStillHere]

The boats are just too easy, I like that there is more than one rout into the enemy realm, but it shouldn't be a case of "click" oh here I am with 50 guys zergin' your beach lololol.

[bois]

To me, this is not so simple as delete or not.

I do think the boats should exist , with adjustments. If a realm suffers from a significant population disadvantage to the others, the boat option to enter its territory should not be available. If all realms are relatively balanced in population then boats should be available to any at that point.

I do also think that the boats should not be a click and enter situation. I prefer that there be a stop of some kind. In other words you have to take over the boat by killing NPCs or some other mechanism( similar to fort capture). This method would be easier than breaking the gates but still presents a weak stop and alerts the invaded realm of the situation. The battle would take place on the beach thus eliminating complicated mechanics for building a boat to war upon.

By capturing the boat, this means the boat becomes one of the invading realm's property (like a fort capture) and only they can use it to enter. During invasion this can change hands by recapture (including defending realm), thus presenting very interesting mechanics at the boats. This potentially allows the third realm to really be a spoiler.

Can the boat be upgraded , hmmm I am not sure about that yet. I rather keep it simple.

The fight for the boat takes place in the warzone, the defenders can potentially defend the boat from the outside, thus allowing the natural advantage defenders should have. Likewise the realm streaming through the boats are known to the defenders and it really presents tactical options. Because this operates when the realm populations are roughly equally strong, there should be no big issues. If you are disorganised, then you should not be able to invade, period.

Other interesting mechanics can then be built in like gaining some bonus for keeping the boat for your realm, offer Quest kills there, etc.

Like I always say, NGD has good ideas. The problem is that they never come back and polish them for the big pay-off. It too bad really as they have good foundations of gameplay but never go that extra mile. If they did , the game could start to really maximise it potential.

[Kitsuni]

Boats are great! And next we can get ropes to climb over the wall, catapults to destroy it, and flying mounts to fly right over!

Who cares at that massive structure called the Great Wall that the whole original Regnum Online game concept was designed around?

Boats were the worst idea ever implemented in this game, and removes all hopes of "winning". Moreover, these last few weeks the game seems to devolved into nothing but one invasion after another all day long with violent shifts of power between the realms. I'd say its actually nigh unplayable anymore.

How to defend against invasions when enemies only need to hold max-level forts for 15 mins, then just pour into your inner realm without any effort at all? At least my scheduled invasions idea was balanced for all realms, not depending on the "wind currents" as to which realm is the strongest at the time of day. :p

Derp.

P.S. Remove boats, move gems to inner-realm forts, add guard patrols, protect the poor noobs who can't understand WTF is going on and ragequit..

[bois]

This is what NGD has been promoting all along. For them , this is a win Kit. Invasions all day long. NGD happy.

The only issue is that players need a rest phase. Because we don't have enough net population to have the pressure spread in player shifts, it could become tiring and harassing to play under such conditions.

[Aries202]

I voted no as a mistake.

On topic: Like Bois said they will not simply just remove it. Invasions are happening, NGD is happy. About the population idea Bois, that's debatable.... It can be abused people would just log off during the time of invasion just to disable boats. then relog back in when it's disabled.

How about making boats harder to get to. I sometimes feel like NGD doesn't play their game anymore like they used to. They just add stuff in that gives them a good vision. Why would it be so easy to enter a realm? In that case Castles/forts should have a back door that breaks in one hit from a barb. Just make it more easy, why not. :bangin:

[bois]

My assumption is based on the idea that they do have some mechanism for deciding how many guards are posted at the gate based on war ready population. Whether that is working properly is as you say debatable but, that is what I was thinking of.

In any case Aries, I do agree that using boats should be either harder to get to or harder to use. The problem now is that it is just too easy. Entering a realm should never be that easy.

There must be a mechanism of challenge in it. If they can't devise that , then just disable them. The game will be no worse off without the boats.

[Orimae]

I voted for deletion...for two reasons..

1. Like Uma said, point and click..too easy, tho i do like Arty´s idea of a capturable boat if they do decide to keep them.

2. It spilts the wargroup...big time... say for instance, Syrtis put Ignis in danger...Ignis group at gate, Syrtis gather at boats and Ignis charge them leaving a few behind to ´watch´ the gate... while this happend, 30+ Alsians appear and break gate with ease because defense is at boats/noble... this happens now, people at boats/gate/noble when before everyone was in one spot and the fights were more fun and ballanced.

[Kitsuni]

2. It spilts the wargroup...big time... say for instance, Syrtis put Ignis in danger...Ignis group at gate, Syrtis gather at boats and Ignis charge them leaving a few behind to ´watch´ the gate... while this happend, 30+ Alsians appear and break gate with ease because defense is at boats/noble... this happens now, people at boats/gate/noble when before everyone was in one spot and the fights were more fun and ballanced.
Don't forget hours of intra-realm conflict as people argue with each other endlessly about who did what while the gems are taken. :p

[VandaMan]

Perhaps if we seriously considered this suggestion http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=54753

We could make the boats idea more challenging. A long trip at sea could leave your troops in dire need of a place to relieve themselves.

[blood-raven]

To me, this is not so simple as delete or not.

I do think the boats should exist , with adjustments. If a realm suffers from a significant population disadvantage to the others, the boat option to enter its territory should not be available. If all realms are relatively balanced in population then boats should be available to any at that point.


I think that's hard to program, immagin the realm being invaded has 20 lvl 30's online and some lvl 60's and the invading realm has about 30 lvl 60's online.
On population matter it's even, on chance of winning totally not.

And i like your defence idea.
i think it should be on the enemy home beach, so it's a bit more logical.
Could be a small fort.

[Lekarz]

You post good ideas, but don't forget NGD screwed gem lock system last time...

[time-to-die]

damn wrong click.... i voted no... but i wanted 2 vote YES! :P

[standistortion]

Yes, burn the boats, every aspect of invasions should be a challenge, no paper doors and dumbass guards either. Maybe upgradeable doors too with many stages of upgrade so a lvl 20 noob feels like his 50k donation has done some good, could even make killing the noble help weaken defences so an invading group sticks together instead of running in every direction when they get into the realm.

Huge +1 to the thread linked by Van too, that's the best idea ever and RO would take over the mmo world if it was implemented ;)

[UmarilsStillHere]

Reading some replies, I do stand by my opinion that boats (as they are) are best used as firewood in their local taverns.

But straight up deletion is rarely the best course of action, I'm sure there could be some way to make them more interesting, or difficult to use, and I would like to see the "attack by sea" option explored in a more interesting way, but right now, as they are, I think its best they're deactivated.

It does make it seem like none of these warring realms have any Navy whatsoever, when you can land an army on a beach using a fishing boat.

[Tamui]

What if boats bevome available after gate becomes broken?
Lets say when break the gate, the realm runs to the beach which should there be docks which are capturable. When captured, boats will become available for 30mins then docks will return to its realm again. After that docks will get invulnrable.

[blood-raven]

Reading some replies, I do stand by my opinion that boats (as they are) are best used as firewood in their local taverns.

But straight up deletion is rarely the best course of action, I'm sure there could be some way to make them more interesting, or difficult to use, and I would like to see the "attack by sea" option explored in a more interesting way, but right now, as they are, I think its best they're deactivated.

It does make it seem like none of these warring realms have any Navy whatsoever, when you can land an army on a beach using a fishing boat.

yes yes yes, how about a badass navy? enbark on the ship at the boats and battle an enemy ship to reach the shore

[UmarilsStillHere]

yes yes yes, how about a badass navy? enbark on the ship at the boats and battle an enemy ship to reach the shore

Would be better than what we have, and give some use to those nice ship models in Alsius starting zone.

I mean come on, Alsius has a port village just up the coast from where their boats land, yet we get across unchallenged? The boats should be challenging, and fighting other players/NPCs on boats (for at least the first "crossing" of the invasion) would be a nice way to do this I think :)

[blood-raven]

Would be better than what we have, and give some use to those nice ship models in Alsius starting zone.

I mean come on, Alsius has a port village just up the coast from where their boats land, yet we get across unchallenged? The boats should be challenging, and fighting other players/NPCs on boats (for at least the first "crossing" of the invasion) would be a nice way to do this I think :)

Not just the first time, when you are able to sink a ship it will respawn after ... time, make it so that the defending realm can board a ship to defend their coasts, this is prolly to much dreaming, but you only have to imagin to know how awesome a navel fight would be, what if we can fire balista's at eachother?
Burning sails, waves dashing at the ship, the boarding...

One can dream...

[bois]

I think that's hard to program, immagin the realm being invaded has 20 lvl 30's online and some lvl 60's and the invading realm has about 30 lvl 60's online.
On population matter it's even, on chance of winning totally not.

And i like your defence idea.
i think it should be on the enemy home beach, so it's a bit more logical.
Could be a small fort.

Is it? they already have some mechanism to decide how many guards to put at the realm gate during invasion times. They also have an equation to figure out when to give an underpopulated realm a bonus and how much.

The code is there. Refine them to decide when to trigger the boats.

Bottom line for me is that the boats are too easy. It must have some conflict based challenge associated with it either prior to the embark stage or at the landing stage. If the amount that can come through at a time is limited as well, I would be for that.
If you are going to let players through easily , at least make it a choke point by limiting the group amounts at any one time period.

The defenders should always have the tactical advantage of barricades and stops. The invaders have the advantage of numbers and attack patterns. Boats defeat this premise because the defenders have no tactical defensive advantage with the current system. In fact, the boats defeat most if not all of the stops NGD themselves put in place to make things balanced.

[pieceofmeat]

I dont really care about invasions, but i like the boats. They are just about the only rvr feature that guarantee some fun fights.
Fights that usually dont involve DIed hotw spamming barbs and beacons in close quarters.

[Rising_Cold]

I dont really care about invasions, but i like the boats. They are just about the only rvr feature that guarantee some fun fights.
Fights that usually dont involve DIed hotw spamming barbs and beacons in close quarters.

reason: there is no way to defend the boats unless the defending realm gets to the beach before guards are killed or if they have the bigger numbers.

boats go fast...

and when your defending/grinding at beach its a nasty surprise to have 10 enemys in front of you all of the sudden..
you'd think you would be able to see them coming xD

[Vaylos]

You know, it's but a small distance between the embark and disembark points for those boats. Why not just have people pile into the boat, and animate it to ferry the players from point A to point B.

This makes it difficult for the invaders because shore-bound defenders could attack the boat and/or the players from the shore on the approach. Because, well, you can't really move around much in those tiny boats, and if you fall out, it's basically insta-drown. :P

This could implement the needed stopgap to give defenders the needed upper hand on the beaches. The invaders could click the boat to board, maybe cut it off at 16 players on board, and then the next group or two would board a different boat. (because 30+ players on one of those tiny rowboats would be a bit silly) The enemy could have a number of ranged defense (knights/conjs) and some marks/hunters on board as well, but they would still basically be sitting ducks until they land.

So, this would make it an option to invade the beach, but the beach would be fairly defensible. It would basically be range vs. range until the boat lands. The boat is on a set route that is self-steered (probably a captain or something piloting that the players do not control)

Optionally, defenders could try to defend by attacking the boat itself and try to sink it, thereby drowning all on board. The edges of the boat would be a "lip" like at the forts that you can't run over (and prevent accidental man overboard situations) but you could potentially jump over the edge by accident I suppose.

However, if nobody is there to defend the beach, then it would still be a pretty easy crossing.

It's just another thought, and probably easier to do than building a whole fort model on the beach, or adjusting algorithms as to when the boat would be available based on populations. It's really just an animation/script following a route/pathing with the players being placed on the boat after clicking it. :P

To beef up the idea, you could have a boat with a number of rowing positions. Players could elect to row to get the boat to land faster, but potentially taking away from people defending the boat itself.