Do you use dead eye?

[Mehran]

Hello marksmen. I was wondering, do you prefer using dead eye or being better off without. Sure, the 30% extra dmg is nice, but does it cancel out the 15% as?

And maybe some marx like Enio and other crazy testers can calculate/tell us of their experiences and how much 15% as really helps. Thanks guys!

[Valkasar]

I think that it's only worth it if you use 100% wep damage skills, like lethal, dual, rep shot, Proy. rain... but besides that i think it's useless.

[Mehran]

I think that it's only worth it if you use 100% wep damage skills, like lethal, dual, rep shot, Proy. rain... but besides that i think it's useless.

well yeah. I was gonna skill manuever, crit chance, and lethal strike with it, but remove serpent to boost my normals insanely. But I was thinking whether or not the dmg was worth the -15% as. I mean I use hawks gaze and will use rapid shot in the future. But maybe in the time I could do 200 more dmg, I would hit another 200? I don't know. I see many Marx still using dead eye and was just wondering. Seeing them hit X2 my normals makes me feel weak :(

[Tamui]

Currently I do. I use it lvl5 currently to see how I go with the -15% malus and actually I really don't mind. Well of course, I have 5%as leggings, and normally I use 2 RoLs when using it because my longbow has slow speed.
I try to always get on it atleast on 1. -5%as isn't really a big of a malus.

Manuever however has a nice duration compared to Dead Eye. But Dead Eye has a shorter cooldown too AND can be used both on lb & sb.

Also it's good when casting lethal :D

Don't bother much how they hit you, else you really get upset and obsessed. Do notice, but not too much :D
Also, what's your lvl?

[Mehran]

Currently I do. I use it lvl5 currently to see how I go with the -15% malus and actually I really don't mind. Well of course, I have 5%as leggings, and normally I use 2 RoLs when using it because my longbow has slow speed.
I try to always get on it atleast on 1. -5%as isn't really a big of a malus.

Manuever however has a nice duration compared to Dead Eye. But Dead Eye has a shorter cooldown too AND can be used both on lb & sb.

Also it's good when casting lethal :D

Don't bother much how they hit you, else you really get upset and obsessed. Do notice, but not too much :D
Also, what's your lvl?

well my lvl doesn't really matter, except for me hitting low :D but regardless I'm 48. And I too use 2 RoL rings and hope to get a mana+as+dex legging in the future. But my main concern was if the 30% dmg is at least worthy of the -15% as. I think what I will do is go to arena and time how long it takes to kill someone with and without deadeye (just recharged and dead eye against an unbuffed mage,archer, and barb) and then compare the times. (I will post my results here).

But my main concern is kiting. I remember +a year ago when I switched to Alsius, Enio teaching me how to kite and giving me tips. And currently with my med lb (no as gems/stats/armor, just 10% from my RoL with hawks gaze) I can actually kite how I use to without the couple of bow changes and how we shoot. so maybe -15% will make me unable to kite and thus reduce some efficiency since actual kiting is excellent in any situation.

[byakurai]

It's a nice skill if you have got a bow with tons of dmg xD, So if you haven't got one don't use it

[Mehran]

It's a nice skill if you have got a bow with tons of dmg xD, So if you haven't got one don't use it

Well I was gonna use a nice base stat bow with ~14% AS (from gems/drop stats) and then use dead eye for extra dmg since it'd cancel the bow's AS....

But, i did my trials, and here are the results against a lvl.41 knight (we took off his shield). He had 3490hp and 228 armor points.



Without Dead Eye With Dead Eye

Trial 1: 28.630 seconds with 16 hits, 1 crit, 1 evade 30.731 seconds with 14 hits, 1 crit, 2 evades
Trial 2: 30.522 seconds with 18 hits, 0 crits, 3 evades
26.273 seconds with 12 hits, 2 crits, 0 evades
Trial 3: 27.862 seconds with 17 hits, 0 crits, 0 evades
32.763 seconds with 16 hits, 0 crits, 2 evades



So the averages were 29.004667 seconds for non-dead-eye and 29.92233 seconds for dead-eye use. Also I did further calculations on the damage, since the speeds were indifferent. I did 5 hits without dead eye and got an average of 182.8 dmg and with dead eye and got 225 dmg. So you are looking at about an extra 42.2 dmg per hit using dead eye, for 20seconds, costing you 170mana.

So I will not be using dead eye anytime soon, but if any marx who finds it usefull off this data, go on ahead.

[Tamui]

I don't have a great bow. Got WMs but it's good enough for me.
I still find it useful, as Dead Eye(1)> Manuever(3). Also it can be used on lb and sb. Although it helps Lethal Strike even though it varies ALOT. Currently I'm using DE(5) and Lethal(5), I really have no problem. Eh it's just a matter of player style then :D

[Mehran]

I don't have a great bow. Got WMs but it's good enough for me.
I still find it useful, as Dead Eye(1)> Manuever(3). Also it can be used on lb and sb. Although it helps Lethal Strike even though it varies ALOT. Currently I'm using DE(5) and Lethal(5), I really have no problem. Eh it's just a matter of player style then :D

exactly. You also need other spells to go with dead eye, so more mana. :P

BUT. since i see everyone using the same old marx setups with the same combos,, tsk tsk... I have a new one which i have thought of.

Use seeking strike with break apart to make it -51 const then ethreal (so they'd lose litterally 1/4hp) then pew pew to death :D

[71175]

exactly. You also need other spells to go with dead eye, so more mana. :P

BUT. since i see everyone using the same old marx setups with the same combos,, tsk tsk... I have a new one which i have thought of.

Use seeking strike with break apart to make it -51 const then ethreal (so they'd lose litterally 1/4hp) then pew pew to death :D

Not rly original, my friend have been using it for alot of time xD

[Tamui]

exactly. You also need other spells to go with dead eye, so more mana. :P

BUT. since i see everyone using the same old marx setups with the same combos,, tsk tsk... I have a new one which i have thought of.

Use seeking strike with break apart to make it -51 const then ethreal (so they'd lose litterally 1/4hp) then pew pew to death :D

I did used Seeking Strike, and I would get it if get better at Combos. But lvl1 is just enough imo with break Apart
Just need to watch your mana :D

[71175]

dead eye is nice also with sbs, dead eye->rapid shot->dirty fighting->pwn

[Mehran]

dead eye is nice also with sbs, dead eye->rapid shot->dirty fighting->pwn

nice, if you can get it.. besides that'd only be like 2 hits fully buffed :P

But i was thinking -const for warriors to be easy kills. well easier :P

[71175]

nice, if you can get it.. besides that'd only be like 2 hits fully buffed :P

But i was thinking -const for warriors to be easy kills. well easier :P

3 hits in 6 seconds with medium sb xD

[Mehran]

3 hits in 6 seconds with medium sb xD

pfft. whatever. :P

[kmdk]

I don't use dead eye for normal hits ,duration is too short and usual i forget to activate :D
But i use dead eye + dirty fight + repetition shot...with medium sb i can doo around 1200 dmg direct area.

[gluffs]

Not rly original, my friend have been using it for alot of time xD

Perhaps not brand new, but atleast he is trying to figure out a setup for himself
compared to many players that just copy paste others setup and dont really
know how to use it.

[Mehran]

I don't use dead eye for normal hits ,duration is too short and usual i forget to activate :D
But i use dead eye + dirty fight + repetition shot...with medium sb i can doo around 1200 dmg direct area.

hmm. Interesting that some players still use rep shot after it's been needed down over the years. Does this work for you? I may have to try it since I haven't skilled rep shot in.. Oh 2 years.

And thanks beardo. I can't really say this is a new setup, but I'm just remembering old RO players and what they advised me; there are many setups that counter others, even those that seem well fit.

[kmdk]

hmm. Interesting that some players still use rep shot after it's been needed down over the years. Does this work for you? I may have to try it since I haven't skilled rep shot in.. Oh 2 years.

it's very dificult to cast because cast duration but works 3 times from 10 and you can make faster at fort doors fight your kills for monthly wm quest :D
Usual you need cast sotw,retaliation max defense because many times you get ms-ed or die by uber dmg of barbarians before you can cast that spell.
Also spell will fail because of knights auras + pylon and dealing 10 dmg .
So basic you need to search the good timing to cast.

[Mehran]

it's very dificult to cast because cast duration but works 3 times from 10 and you can make faster at fort doors fight your kills for monthly wm quest :D
Usual you need cast sotw,retaliation max defense because many times you get ms-ed or die by uber dmg of barbarians before you can cast that spell.
Also spell will fail because of knights auras + pylon and dealing 10 dmg .
So basic you need to search the good timing to cast.

I just didnt know people still used it :P

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

My marksman does use it and mages i've hit for 800 crits know its uses - basically the best way to use it is in conjunction with hawks gaze lvl 5 the AS malus is wiped away and you still have 10% left over from hawks - this is the only time i use it.

Also sb with hawks gaze dead eye rapid and dirty fighting your DPS goes through the roof i hit 500 norms in that with an ok sb hit maybe 1.5 times per second.

I am level 60 though i wouldnt advise dead eye for lower levels points can be better spent else where

[71175]

I do use dead eye on my mark's max damage set: Nothing can be more sweet than 600 normals xD

[_Emin_]

... 10% left over from hawks - this is the only time i use it

It's actually around 6.5%(100x1.25 = 125%, 125%x.85 = 106.25%)left but I get your point. :p


Well I honestly don't use it. 20 secs is pretty short but it with rapidshot and/or hawk's gaze it's perfect for fortwars and I totally hate marksmans shooting from 50 range, it's damn boring xD

Maneuver > Dead Eye (without hawk's gaze) in my opinion.

[Tamui]

Maneuver > Dead Eye (without hawk's gaze) in my opinion.

if you mean in DPS, maybe so but not in dmg.
Dead Eye(1) > Manuever(3)

[_Emin_]

if you mean in DPS, maybe so but not in dmg.
Dead Eye(1) > Manuever(3)

You forget if the opponent is buffed, believe me it's not.

dead eye lv 1 means +5% attack damage, damage from rings/amu's and gems aren't calculated. I can hit more with Maneuver lv4 than with dead eyelv2. Dead eye also gives a penalty of -8% attack speed.

[Tamui]

You forget if the opponent is buffed, believe me it's not.

dead eye lv 1 means +5% attack damage, damage from rings/amu's and gems aren't calculated. I can hit more with Maneuver lv4 than with dead eyelv2. Dead eye also gives a penalty of -8% attack speed.

And are dmg from arrows calculated?
Funny how, I recieved an answer that rings & amus are calculate in the Weapon Damage Bonus. http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=88945

[71175]

You forget if the opponent is buffed, believe me it's not.

dead eye lv 1 means +5% attack damage, damage from rings/amu's and gems aren't calculated. I can hit more with Maneuver lv4 than with dead eyelv2. Dead eye also gives a penalty of -8% attack speed.

Eek but damage from rings and ammys IS calculated in dead eye, from gems it's not yea

[_Emin_]

Eek but damage from rings and ammys IS calculated in dead eye, from gems it's not yea

Are you sure? I mean Recharged arrows has also +% weapen damage bonus as Dead Eye does but damage isn't calculated in Recharged Arrows, right?

I will take a look here and give a report later.

[_Emin_]

And are dmg from arrows calculated?
Funny how, I recieved an answer that rings & amus are calculate in the Weapon Damage Bonus. http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=88945

Interesting, well if you want I could come on my marks on Amun and test it.

[_Emin_]

I'm testing this out right now and I will post everything later.

Edit :
I was on Amun with Archonaut to test these things. I used a lv 1 short bow with lv 1 arrows to test damage with Recharged Arrows and Dead Eye. My opponent was not wearing any armor at all.

firtsly I started with a lv 1 bow,arrows no rings,Alasthor Amu and Fearion was without armor (Recharged Arrows lv5) ;

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3423/screenshot2012063019415.jpg


Secondly I used a lv 1 bow,arrow and 2x RoL (recharged arrow lv5) ;

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4458/screenshot2012063019454.jpg

Thirdly I used lv 1 bow,arrows no rings,Alasthor Amu ( dead eye lv5 )

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6418/screenshot2012063019564.jpg

Strange... I didn't suspect this.

I guess I answered your question here, Tamui.

Thank you Archonaut for testing.

[Archonaut]

Haha who's that sexy mofo

[Kitsuni]

Raely's extensive testing found out that this is spell-dependant, despit tooltips using the same note for all of them. In most cases, "weapon damage" is your weapon, rings, amulet, and arrows. But not always, as it seems NGD coded each spell individually instead of using a macro for these calculations.

One thing seems to be constant: Gems (in your weapon), and dexterity, never count for "weapon damage". This may have changed over time, though. All of the known information, especially on the Wiki, is very old, and was made pre-Warmasters update (though some of it was updated). We need people to volunteer for extensive re-testing so the Wiki can be pretty much rewritten with the new game logic. But seeing as how a new expansion is coming, there is probalby no point...